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Aighun
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
666
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Posted - 2012.09.11 06:23:00 -
[31] - Quote
Antonius Dacinci wrote:TL;DR just throwing this out there, because sensors are broken, the heavy suit actually becomes the best sniping suit in the game because you can put your most expensive sniper rifles, 5 or 10armour/s in reppers and as many shield modules as you can fit and basically be able to snipe without even having to worry about tanks.
So seriously think outside the box.
That is a good idea for a fitting.
But just because that would work does not mean that some of the other things you can use a heavy suit for, like, maybe, carting around the heavy weapons, aren't all kinds of messed up and useless. |
Tech Ohm Eaven
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
401
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Posted - 2012.09.11 06:23:00 -
[32] - Quote
Antonius Dacinci wrote:TL;DR just throwing this out there, because sensors are broken, the heavy suit actually becomes the best sniping suit in the game because you can put your most expensive sniper rifles, 5 or 10armour/s in reppers and as many shield modules as you can fit and basically be able to snipe without even having to worry about tanks.
So seriously think outside the box.
I did and found that the best sniper rifle costs from 130k isk and up
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Renato Crusher
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
12
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Posted - 2012.09.11 06:46:00 -
[33] - Quote
I used to play a Standard Heavy with HMG almost exclusively, since I started in this Beta several major updates ago. Since then I've gone from from a K/D ratio of about 1.5 to 0.6, which pretty much speaks for itself.
Hit detection is still a serious problem though, I know on the current update I've managed to kill a Scout dropsuit user with one second of gunfire, but usually I cause them little to no damage even when they are showing the hit animation. All the balancing effort in the world is wasted when the HMG has such unreliable hit detection, because perhaps the stats aren't as bad as it feels when you use it.
I wouldn't even mind if the Heavy Suit sucked vs. infantry if it excelled against tanks, but it no longer has the HP to go toe-to-toe with them, and it never had the agility to effectively avoid being hit, so HP has always been critical. |
Zerlathon
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
213
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Posted - 2012.09.11 06:59:00 -
[34] - Quote
I do think that the heavy suits need a bit of a hp buff (considering their turning speed and general movement).
The other thing I think the heavy suits should be immune to, is the aim jerking when hit. I can imagine that it is really frustrating that you charge up your forge only to have a single bullet jerk your aim and you miss.
Also, I believe that the hit detection isn't just a problem with the scouts, it's also with the other suits. It just seems more of an issue with the scouts as they are faster and probably have the smallest hit box. I'm only saying this, as I've had numerous encounters with other suits and a point blank shotgun did nil damage (this included sneaking up on a heavy sniper who was just sitting there). |
amarrian victorian
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
52
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Posted - 2012.09.11 07:38:00 -
[35] - Quote
i been experimenting with heavy suits, using forge gun+ militia SMG, the smg lets me spray and pray and the forge gun lets hit me things long range, and sometimes take a good chunk out of someone at close range before switching to smg.
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Laurent Cazaderon
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
1155
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Posted - 2012.09.11 07:44:00 -
[36] - Quote
Ignatius Crumwald wrote:I said this 2 builds ago. Even with a logi the healing isn't enough to stand toe to toe with a circle strafing scout - I know because I regularly ignore the logi and leave them for last. That's the complete opposite of what my focus should be.
The ridiculously slow turn speed and reduced armor completely warrant a return to the old "overpowered", HMG, IMO. I found the old set-up to be a very interesting way to establish the heavy as the #1 threat so that it draws all the hate while its speed and range limit kept it confined to a limited area., similar to a traditional MMO but in PvP form.
However, the completely gimped lol-gi healing combined with an HMG that's lost its place on the battlefield with all the range tweeks and damage nerfs, leaves what could have been a very tight infantry balance on the cutting room floor.
Agreed. Heavies aren't scary as they should be for infantry. Probably because of the lack of love showed for Armor Tanking in Dust at the moment.
It's pretty obvious that : Shield > Armor
And heavies being by standard Armor Tankers.....
When will we get to see Resistance modules for Armor that are even half worth shield tanking ? |
Chihiro Itto
66
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Posted - 2012.09.11 08:14:00 -
[37] - Quote
I generally agree here, although to be fair I haven't played as a heavy this build, but did quite a bit in the last. I have no problem with the heavy not being over-powered armour/shield-wise (SOP should be an accompanying logi IMO. If you're a Heavy in a decent position I'll do it for you) but the HMG should be lethal short to medium range or suppression isn't a realistic result of HMG fire.
If some of the other noted issues are fixed then it probably wouldn't take much to make the Heavy effective again, but it does seem the weakest (and most unpopular) of the suits now.
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Veigar Mordekaiser
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
676
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Posted - 2012.09.11 08:18:00 -
[38] - Quote
I don't know man, I played a few games today with heavies that would -not- die. I swear, I pumped a full clip of my Tactical AR into those guys, barely got them below half armor. |
Billi Gene
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
130
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Posted - 2012.09.11 08:32:00 -
[39] - Quote
the description for heavies is kinda lol atm.
something along the lines of" can go toe to toe with vehicles"
unless its a jeep running you over because you're fat and slow.
or a tank.
oh wait that leaves drop ships, but then anyone with a swarm launcher can take those down. :P
don't like this build :P all i ever see is exploiters in tanks, that i can't kill because I'm fat and slow and don't pack enough punch any way.
heavies with anything other then the weapons only they can use are gimped imo (yes yes excluding the HMG which if you pack in complex damage mods actually kills things ) |
Vickers S Grunt
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
67
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Posted - 2012.09.11 08:45:00 -
[40] - Quote
Yeh hevys are not very powerfull ......
I never get any kills in a hevy suit....
PLEASE make the hmg better it never kills anyone
Also while u are on can u make thukkers nades do 5000000 damage thay seem very weak as well
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Chihiro Itto
66
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Posted - 2012.09.11 08:56:00 -
[41] - Quote
Veigar Mordekaiser wrote:I don't know man, I played a few games today with heavies that would -not- die. I swear, I pumped a full clip of my Tactical AR into those guys, barely got them below half armor.
It depends on what fit they were running, but should one soldier be able to kill a Heavy single-handed anyway, without an extended battle? Just comparing armour/shield numbers a Heavy should need the same amount of killing as 3-4 weaker dropsuits.
To me Heavy's should be the infantry equiv of a HAV, (they'll always be easier to kill because of turn speed/low mobility) and require team-play to beat, or at least explosives and-or strong flank/rear attacks.
It sounds like that's the experience the game needs, although if you're the one trying to kill one single-handedly I appreciate that isn't what you want.
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HowDidThatTaste
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
2242
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Posted - 2012.09.11 15:39:00 -
[42] - Quote
Billi Gene wrote:the description for heavies is kinda lol atm.
something along the lines of" can go toe to toe with vehicles"
unless its a jeep running you over because you're fat and slow.
or a tank.
oh wait that leaves drop ships, but then anyone with a swarm launcher can take those down. :P
don't like this build :P all i ever see is exploiters in tanks, that i can't kill because I'm fat and slow and don't pack enough punch any way.
heavies with anything other then the weapons only they can use are gimped imo (yes yes excluding the HMG which if you pack in complex damage mods actually kills things )
Yes the description of a heavy is to be able to stand toe to toe with vehicles and survive. It also says that the suit is its most powerful weapon. Somewhere both of these things have been lost |
Burger Helper
84
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Posted - 2012.09.12 00:48:00 -
[43] - Quote
Xantanis wrote:
It helped, a little. But its still gd ridiculous, go till overhear, seeing hit recognition and still some of the other guys just whack me with an assault rifle or smg. Being in a "heavy" suit a smg shouldn't tear me in half in .5 seconds.
oh, i forgot to mention, lead your shots. the hit detection problems are partially due to bad lag and no compensation by the server, so where you "see" the enemy is usually one or two body widths distant from where he actually is, this is especially true when they're moving
as for scouts? who the hell knows, just spray everywhere
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Goric Rumis
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
80
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Posted - 2012.09.12 01:18:00 -
[44] - Quote
Chihiro Itto wrote:To me Heavy's should be the infantry equiv of a HAV, (they'll always be easier to kill because of turn speed/low mobility) and require team-play to beat, or at least explosives and-or strong flank/rear attacks. It sounds like that's the experience the game needs, although if you're the one trying to kill one single-handedly I appreciate that isn't what you want. Yes, for limited purposes. But I think the people in this thread get that. My understanding is that in the E3 build the heavy was basically what the HAV is now: untouchable damage-dealers that dominated the map at every turn. The heavy's three specialties as I see it should be (1) anti-vehicle, (2) crowd control, (3) point defense.
As a heavy, I have no problem depending on other infantry or vehicles to fulfill my purpose. It's just that at the moment I don't fulfill a purpose at all. HMGs are no more effective than assault rifles at any range in terms of literal damage, and the armor/mobility tradeoff isn't working in my favor. |
4447
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
649
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Posted - 2012.09.12 01:29:00 -
[45] - Quote
heavy suit, should have a jet pack... |
Celestial3
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
11
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Posted - 2012.09.12 03:34:00 -
[46] - Quote
To put it simply, Is the trade off worth it? The difference between the classes is slots, speed, and armor. As a Heavy we give up speed and slots for extra armor and the perk to use weapons no other class can use. In this current build, is the speed we give up worth the armor we recieve? IMHO, I don't think so. We're easy targets and the armor we recieve doesn't really equate to the loss of mobility. Is the HMG better or more useful than an AR? I don't think there are too many Scouts, Logis, or Assault guys out there that would trade theirs AR for a HMG even if the range was the same. However, I do have faith that CCP will fix this and balance us out. |
RedBleach
50
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Posted - 2012.09.12 09:10:00 -
[47] - Quote
The heavies should scare the crap out of me when I come around a corner, and they did, but not anymore. They are a nuisance, not scary, just takes a clip and a half to kill them. If I can reload they die.
I should be crapping my pants when I get close to one. BUFF the heavy - armour, shield, resistance, better weapon,... something.
The game neeeeeeds balance. Hopefully next build will bring that. |
Laurent Cazaderon
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
1155
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Posted - 2012.09.12 09:50:00 -
[48] - Quote
Agreed.
But, it is known that there is a NERF going on those heavy suits. I think they should get their old armor HP back now that their HMG have been nerfed quite a lot. Cause yeah. heavies should be scary. They should force a single soldier into fleeing lol. |
Cains Deus
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
29
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Posted - 2012.09.12 12:58:00 -
[49] - Quote
I can not wait for the next buff for heavy's. I play heavy and thanks for all the kind words every one is giving about our sub par stats. on the note of getting hit by vehicle The mass of a heavy suite should stop LAVs in there tracks. yes we both should be damaged severely but the LAV should almost be completely damaged because of the sudden stop. |
Darky SI
232
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Posted - 2012.09.12 15:47:00 -
[50] - Quote
The heavy suit = target practice CCP PLEASE do something i miss playing with my Heavy/HMG class its been pain in the ass training a heavy it cost so much SP and ISK for few unnoticeable upgrades.
Bring back the Badass heavy from Replica build (with current overheat rate) sure you might have good matches and do well with current Heavy/HMG but its far from the role it was supposed to fill.
The next build is the last build i will wait for CCP to get the heavy suit and its weapons right and if they didn't i'll go after dropships career i waste more than 4 months on the heavy suit and everytime i get disappointed from its performance i really need to choose my career before release and the current heavy doesn't look promising at all. |
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Brumae Verres
24
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Posted - 2012.09.15 00:32:00 -
[51] - Quote
I'm really glad I found this thread. I just finished another day of heavy dedicated runs and have never been so ashamed of my kdr. It seems the only way to be effective is run behind a pack of assaults. You never get any kills cause everything's dead by the time you roll up panting, but at least your alive.
I would really like to love the heavy. The one or two infantry kills with a forge make it promising good fun, but it's too much dying to be worth it.
Might as well run the cookie cutter assault build and at least be effective. |
Scholar Him
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
29
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Posted - 2012.09.15 00:41:00 -
[52] - Quote
I agree. I have tried all sorts of builds to make a Heavy worth using, but I have found none besides just wanting to use a heavy weapon. If heavy weapons were effective at anything, it would make sense, but I have not found any use for them that an assault suit with the overly powerful, overly accurate assault rife can't do better. |
HowDidThatTaste
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
2242
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Posted - 2012.09.15 03:21:00 -
[53] - Quote
It is becoming frustrating as the other classes are leveling into proto gear I stay in the same suit and gun. And am getting destroyed the most by milita AR's .
I understand they want us to work on modules, but I only have 3 modules to work with. 1 extra for advanced suit and only on more for proto. And the cost to run an advanced suit far out ways any advantages that one slot offers. |
FORTUNE96
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
10
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Posted - 2012.09.15 04:03:00 -
[54] - Quote
This is why i wont play as a heavy anymore |
Celestial3
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
11
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Posted - 2012.09.15 04:16:00 -
[55] - Quote
Yea, I've quit playing until the update. I tried to level up my gear, HMG, and now the forge weapon, but my survival is so much dependent on running with a squad that sticks together. Which is not easy to find at times. We have the extra armor and/or shields but with our movement speed and lack of punch makes us free lunch and typically an after thought on the field. I keep hearing good things about the next build but it seems like speculation. I wish a dev could give us some insight as far as future plans for a heavy. It seems like the main talk on the forums is about tanks vs. AV but little talk about the heavies. |
Jexct Doc
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
14
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Posted - 2012.09.15 04:38:00 -
[56] - Quote
I play logistics. I love heavies. I always try to find one each game and stick with them. Normally, as long as we aren't outnumbered, it turns into an easy day. They get the kills. I get assists, reps and resupplies. The triage repair tool is beastly.
I also have about 2m into a heavy HMG character, and I can say that if you are trying to go full rambo or solo it is normally a bad time. It is too bad I hardly ever get repped on that guy, but if I did I feel I would be doing some serious damage.
heavy + logi = win heavy - logi = fml
Something could be done with balancing proto HMGs vs. proto ARs though, but I think that is on the way! |
Evane Sa'edi
Celtic Anarchy
62
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Posted - 2012.09.15 04:42:00 -
[57] - Quote
I find the problem with Heavy suits at the moment is the lack of any Heavy weapons that compliment using it at tier Zero or any other level.
The HMG is under powered - in the real world HMG rounds are based on AR rounds with slight modification for power, therefore HMG should do the same amount of damage as an Assault Rifle of the same level, if not slightly more.
The Forge Gun is under powered and under ranged for the type of weapon that it is - with a projectile velocity of 4.3 miles per second, the range should be extreme in open terrain, the potential kinetic energy release for this type of weapon should be higher.
There is no heavy AV Missile system - why? A copy of the Javelin system would be ideal, giving both AV and area denial uses.
There is no heavy CQC Area Effect weapon - flamethrower or lightning gun?
There are no Tier zero heavy weapons - this reduces the inducement to use a Heavy suit until tier one weapons become available.
The Heavy suit takes too long to spec up to advanced and proto levels and does not have any equipment slots on any tier, where as all other suit types have at least 1 equipment slot available. |
Billi Gene
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
130
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Posted - 2012.09.15 06:18:00 -
[58] - Quote
The HMg isnt completely borked, but it is situational. I've been using the type2 heavy suit, with 2x damage modules in the highs, and either a plate, armor repper or shield moderator in the low.
Stick near cover, use corners to force people to come after you.
always start firing before leaving cover, and face the opponent/s before leaving cover as well, get them lined up so that the moment you are breaking cover, you've been firing for a split second already and they are taking damage the moment you see them.
Fire just enough to get some damage on them, then seek cover. Rinse and repeat, and you will win, just watch that ammo counter, if they see you start to reload they will charge you.
If they charge you and you're reloading switch to SMg and melt them, they should already be damaged. If you don't need to reload and they charge you, open up on them in 1.5-2.0 second bursts.
Needless to say, I hardly ever run Heavy suits on the big open maps unless i plan on defending an area or two with plenty of cover.
It would be nice to get a 10% EHP buff, but as is, with lvl 4 in shield regen, shield management, armor repair and mechanics, I'm almost hitting 1k EHP in type 2 suit with no plates or extenders. Which is enough if i seek cover at regular intervals, and give my shields a break and if i've got a repper on, let it heal the suit a 'little'....
ps, would love a suit with a skill bonus to armor repair rate -.- |
Onizuka-GTO Houdan
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
8
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Posted - 2012.09.15 09:34:00 -
[59] - Quote
yeah. this game is focus more on the shields then armour and since heavies are all armour, we are at a disadvantage.
At leased shields regen naturally, so they don't have to equip any shield regen. But a heavy? Well if you are lucky, you will have used twice the skill points to get a decent armour rep. to take up a slot that a shield spec person could use the same slot for something else.
And don't get me started on scouts and my sad sad HMG.... ;_;
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