take a long time to upgrade. .

No they dont

fixed

Tanks are expensive as sh!t and take a long time to upgrade. Therefore they are supposed to be hard to kill.

The issue is that not many people are speccing into AV loadouts. If there aren't any AV units on the field, of course you are going to get wrecked by HAVs.

Another problem is that there isn't much incentive to spec into an AV class. They are useless against everything except for vehicles (logical I suppose). If they can't fight anything except for vehicles they will usually drop their AV spec in favor of another class that can deal with infantry better.

Additionally if someone hasn't started speccing into AV from the start they are gong to want to finish their other class first. For example, I started playing logi. Despite the fact that speccing into AV would hugely benefit my team, I feel like I need to max out the effectiveness of my logi loadout first. Maxing out a class takes forever, so my AV spec won't happen for a looooong time. This isn't about logic in this case. Speccing into AV would help the team, but not many people think in those terms. As a result, HAVs run rampant.

So here is what needs to happen:

- Buff AV effectiveness versus infantry

- Add large incentives for taking down HAVs and dropships

It's a start at least.

Everytime I see an HAV apologist thread, I LOL.

"Yeah, tanks don't need fixed. I drive one, I love being invincible. Isn't that reasonable since i put in a little bit of ISK and SP?"

Hey OP, before you post do a little math. SP for tanks is nothing compared to trying to get suit and weapons for tanks and infantry. The black ops tanks....yea lots of SP. The standard.....very little. You just wasted 5 minutes of my life. I will find you on the battlefield. Or just give your name to THOSE GUYS to take care of.

Lack of a militia forge/HMG is a part of the problem. Really, is a militia version of the coooolest weapon Dust has askin too much?

i for one think that av guys shold get a much larger piece of the pie isk-wise when they take out an HAV. splash mods would go a long way for any infantry and with the implementation of artillery, an anti-air flak cannon for heavies would be awesome.....

I think the real way to handle this is deeper. I would like to see a clone-rotation system. Yes. So, if you happen to "bite the bullet," as they say, you would be able to switch to an alt in your account. This isn't unreasonable as storyline goes either IMHO. It is just simply a clone-farm. Your ability to activate a clone fit for your current battle conditions seems like a natural progression in "Clone-Warfare Management". It's a reasonable skill, so my point and stance supporting changing characters mid-combat is this. Make it a skill, level it up, and allow for clone swaps. The key sci-fi element here is that you can drop a brain-pattern into a piece of flesh machinery, so...with the right skills, you should be able to 'select your profile'.

Think of it as 'the bench' guys. Every good battle game / sporting event allows for bench guys.

No they dont

I have driven a tank like 2-3 times ever, and all of those times I got blown up because I didn't know what I was doing.

I think tanks are fine except for their infinite ammo.

This makes absolutely no sense, and further, isn't workable. You have three character slots for three different characters, each of which can be in a different corp or even on different sides of a war. You couldn't swap different characters into a battle because they might even be on different sides of a conflict.

Characters are separate fictional people, not sets of skills you can load into a clone.

They should just separate the driver from the main-turret like like they have done with all other vehicles.
There's simply no reason to allow a single person to efficiently operate tank.

Here's my suggestion in the feedback section

I think the real way to handle this is deeper. I would like to see a clone-rotation system. Yes. So, if you happen to "bite the bullet," as they say, you would be able to switch to an alt in your account. This isn't unreasonable as storyline goes either IMHO. It is just simply a clone-farm. Your ability to activate a clone fit for your current battle conditions seems like a natural progression in "Clone-Warfare Management". It's a reasonable skill, so my point and stance supporting changing characters mid-combat is this. Make it a skill, level it up, and allow for clone swaps. The key sci-fi element here is that you can drop a brain-pattern into a piece of flesh machinery, so...with the right skills, you should be able to 'select your profile'.

Think of it as 'the bench' guys. Every good battle game / sporting event allows for bench guys.

This will probably be handled in later builds by jump clones like in eve. Skills are your mercs skills but you will be able to augment them with implants. Then you can jump between clones, maybe even during battles, to switch what your specific implants do, rather that's boosting your damage/accuracy or making you be a better doc or boosting your shield management skill. I don't think they will ever implement jumping between characters though as you cannot do this even in eve and doesn't make a lot of sense.

Jump clones are fine, but not switching entire characters. It makes no sense.

If they took tanks out of the game entirely right now there's only about 10 of you who would miss them.

The rest of us would enjoy playing an FPS.

Tanks are expensive as sh!t. Therefore they are supposed to be hard to kill.

The issue is that not many people are speccing into AV loadouts. If there aren't any AV units on the field, of course you are going to get wrecked by HAVs.

Another problem is that there isn't much incentive to spec into an AV class. They are useless against everything except for vehicles (logical I suppose). If they can't fight anything except for vehicles they will usually drop their AV spec in favor of another class that can deal with infantry better.

Additionally if someone hasn't started speccing into AV from the start they are gong to want to finish their other class first. For example, I started playing logi. Despite the fact that speccing into AV would hugely benefit my team, I feel like I need to max out the effectiveness of my logi loadout first. Maxing out a class takes forever, so my AV spec won't happen for a looooong time. This isn't about logic in this case. Speccing into AV would help the team, but not many people think in those terms. As a result, HAVs run rampant.

So here is what needs to happen:

- Buff AV effectiveness versus infantry

- Add large incentives for taking down HAVs and dropships

It's a start at least.

If they took tanks out of the game entirely right now there's only about 10 of you who would miss them.

The rest of us would enjoy playing an FPS.

Tanks kill everything, but take as much skill points as getting the skills for half the infantry coin: AV or AP. There's really no argument here. AV needs its teeth back.

Everytime I see an HAV apologist thread, I LOL.

"Yeah, tanks don't need fixed. I drive one, I love being invincible. Isn't that reasonable since i put in a little bit of ISK and SP?"

the av nerf was only temporary while ccp gets some tank v tank numbers.

once ewar is implemented, av will not only have teeth, they will have claws too.

the av nerf was only temporary while ccp gets some tank v tank numbers.

once ewar is implemented, av will not only have teeth, they will have claws too.

I was being objective, unlike you.

1. Spec into a marauder.
2. Order the marauder onto the battlefield.
3. Enter marauder.
4. Find ants to squish and laugh as everything they throw at you does pathetic damage.
5. Get tons of kills without dying, perform an evil laugh while your missile launchers pulverize any infantry that tries to fight back.
6. After causing enough hell to make half a team change into AV fittings, laugh as you get away while tanking a buttload of missiles.
7. Get behind cover, recharge, a minute later be back and causing hell again.
8. Game ends and you have a 20+ KDR and a ton of SP, feel good about yourself.
9. Go on the forums and talk about how it ONLY needs a full squad + to focus on it to make it RETREAT.
10. Let your ego grow because you're curb stomping casual players with your ridiculous gear thanks to no lifing it throughout the build.

just 3hit the tank with a forge gun. its not that hard..

I'm not logged in on DUST atm, but I'm fairly sure that the SP cost for LV 1 in FG/Swarm is only something like 30k. That isnt much, and investing in these weapons is so very worthwhile in the long run. After all, getting to know how to use them now, will pay off when they get buffed back up a bit later on :)

From memory swarms suck at shield damage, and forge does badly against armor(please correct me if i am wrong).

As infantry we should be memorising the capabilities of these mechanical murderers.

also from memory... Gunnlogi is shield tank, use a forge gun on it, as per above. Same goes for Viper drop ship, if it makes the mistake of getting too close.

just my 0.02isk/imho

I have driven militia tanks and drop ships, and whilst people will pull out swarms for dropships (i fly the viper..."lol") most will not try to engage a tank... even a nub tank.

Also... don't be hating on me... this guy is an infantry AV specialist :P...i don't actually have any pilot skills, i only use the militia fits, modified to shield tank and spit missiles :P

oh and don't be haters, try flying a drop ship now and then for sh!ts and g!ggles :)

You gave us your opinion which is the definition of subjective.

You forgot 11 and 12.

11. ????
12. Profit

i for one think that av guys shold get a much larger piece of the pie isk-wise when they take out an HAV. splash mods would go a long way for any infantry and with the implementation of artillery, an anti-air flak cannon for heavies would be awesome.....

My opinion is fact. Get used to it.

The price or the amount of SP spend don't justify anything.

If something needs a team to take down, it should require team to operate properly.
Tanks are far too powerful for just one player.

I suppose in your delusional world where you are God and your opinion law that's true, but not here in the real world. You have an opinion, it can be an informed or an uninformed opinion but it can never be anything but subjective to your own experiences.

I forgot that you can't be sarcastic when there are forum tryhards around. My apologies, I will label all my jokes with a *j symbol so you know when I'm not being serious.