Noc was the target of our a fore mentioned dropship based shenanigans. See the kind of rage it produces when a tank is destroyed! Once again, they are not currently too cheap.

@ Noc Tempre I love how upset this is making u

Protect the I win tank at all costs lol

Killed 4 tanks so far with dropships so seems the best counter atm well aside from another OP tank.

Out of the top 10 with most kills how many are tank users?



Edit: also you numbers are waaay off or your just fighting scrubs. I get over 100k isk per game so 5-6 games haz me a nice new tank with all the top end mods.

Also how the hell are you broke I'm rolling in isk almost like its the last build.

On one hand, I know responding to an obvious troll is pointless because you are making stretched conclusions from cherry picked examples. On the other hand, having your garbage on the first page without pointing out the error is a peeve for me.

You don't average 100k isk per game. You have games that get over 100k isk, but no one is averaging that much, even players much better than you or I. Furthermore, even at 100k isk average, it is about 10 rounds for a top fit tier 1 tank. If you shop by price instead of raw performance, yes that price may go down. But if you're in that deep, best to commit the extra 20%.

Furthermore you point out the obvious, tanks are not strong enough to justify their prices. If they can "easily be killed" by a single player, then they are a joke. I'm guessing you use militia gear all the time, because that is the only way you would have >5M isk at the moment. Tha't hardly rolling in ISK when that used to take 5-10 games max.

And finally, the only reason I am broke is disconnects. Plain and simple 80% of all ISK I've earned this build has been lost to disconnects. Another 10% were barrel-rolling in vipers. And the last 10% were non-militia fits to other players.

The main problem is not enough people running AV. (Militia shock fit does not count because it is just plain terrible and harmless to tanks)

I've lost more tanks to disconnects than I ahve to people blowing them up. Once the new people in the beta start learning how to run AV with av grenandes and nonmilia swarms, maybe we'll actually start dying. Cost increase is not neccessary. Decently fit gunloggi still costs 1m isk or so.

I disagree. I've fired off three volleys that hit with the militia swarm and didn't even bring a tank's shields down by half. Yes, I was running militia because I was just getting killed over and over, getting off one volley if I was lucky before getting mowed down no matter how many allies I had nearby (firing a swarm makes you a very obvious target). But with the best swarm launcher you're getting a 50% bonus over the militia swarm, plus whatever you can get with light weapon upgrades. Mathematically, if I'd been using a top-of-the-line swarm launcher (the swarm launcher skill doesn't improve damage anyway), maybe with luck I'd have brought the shields down and dented the armor. Still nowhere near enough to kill the tank. And firing off three locked volleys is really good. It's rare you'll get off more than two if your opponents have any kind of skill or organization--either you'll get shot down or your target will move out of range.

I don't think the answer is more expensive tanks, I think the answer is more effective AV. The reason so many AV people run militia is because they know it's a suicide mission to distract the tank and not actually a bid to destroy it.

I know there's some reasonable doubt about this, so last night before bed I put together a build with the highest-grade equipment I could get and AV grenades to boot. Next time I encounter one of these tanks I'm going to pour out all the hurt I can and then make a final decision whether the balance is off. Looking at the math, though, it seems unlikely to be effective.

I disagree. I've fired off three volleys that hit with the militia swarm and didn't even bring a tank's shields down by half. Yes, I was running militia because I was just getting killed over and over, getting off one volley if I was lucky before getting mowed down no matter how many allies I had nearby (firing a swarm makes you a very obvious target). But with the best swarm launcher you're getting a 50% bonus over the militia swarm, plus whatever you can get with light weapon upgrades. Mathematically, if I'd been using a top-of-the-line swarm launcher (the swarm launcher skill doesn't improve damage anyway), maybe with luck I'd have brought the shields down and dented the armor. Still nowhere near enough to kill the tank. And firing off three locked volleys is really good. It's rare you'll get off more than two if your opponents have any kind of skill or organization--either you'll get shot down or your target will move out of range.

I don't think the answer is more expensive tanks, I think the answer is more effective AV. The reason so many AV people run militia is because they know it's a suicide mission to distract the tank and not actually a bid to destroy it.

I know there's some reasonable doubt about this, so last night before bed I put together a build with the highest-grade equipment I could get and AV grenades to boot. Next time I encounter one of these tanks I'm going to pour out all the hurt I can and then make a final decision whether the balance is off. Looking at the math, though, it seems unlikely to be effective.

The main problem is not enough people running AV. (Militia shock fit does not count because it is just plain terrible and harmless to tanks)

I've lost more tanks to disconnects than I ahve to people blowing them up. Once the new people in the beta start learning how to run AV with av grenandes and nonmilia swarms, maybe we'll actually start dying. Cost increase is not neccessary. Decently fit gunloggi still costs 1m isk or so.

You had a militia swarm and are complaining a tank didn't die in 3 shots (which includes one reload). You really have no experience to make any conclusions about AV weapon strength. I've played both sides and it's too easy to kill a tank and requires hiding to for the tank to stay alive vs real AV.

Only seeing tankys defending tanks atm. Any other opinions ?

Whats your point? Are you saying it should stay as it is?

Skill up or shut up.

A milita tank cost 140k
A standerd tank costs 200k
A mauder cost 1.2m
Right away this shows that there is no middle ground in terms of tank priceing the cost increase from milita to standerd is not relivent to the incease in survivability, firepower or adaptabilaty that the standerd offers .
The price should be more inbetween the two in the 500k range.
Lets keep in mind that the proto hevy suit alone is 170k thats a just 30k less than a standerd tank !

Um I have done got like 4 mil sp in tanks so far and its a blast stomping on lol infantry.

Thinking about this alittle more and reading peeps comments I think my main beef is with the 220k isk tank. Its So much better than the milita but costs hardly anymore yet its epic. The sargris at 1.2 mil might in fact be a little steep considering its not that much better.

And I've spent less than 2 mil on skilling into AV and have just as much fun spreading the ashes of lol tanks everywhere.

Wait until a few more people are skilling into AV, then try to keep telling us tanks are OP.

As someone who has dabbled in tanks and anti tank, I can say they are balanced right now. They cost an extremely hig amount of money, and can be killed by 2-5 shots from a Forge gun or Prototype Launcher, which you definitely need for anti tank. And Im talking about the real Madrugars and Gunloggis. It takes real skill in tanks to time out your module activations, maneauver through tight places, and avoid devestating Turret installations. I think you're just talking out of your ass right now. I recommend you use a tank and then complain. And for the record, in the last build, I was strictly Anti Vehicle Protosuit and Tank/LAV driver.


Also, AV grenades are ROFLSMACKED against tanks. The high end ones are devestating. Skill up or shut up.

And to prove my point, show me the numbers. SP needed to skill into tanks, cost of running tanks and anti tanks, compare those, and also players needed for good tank, vs anti tank. Then

Like I said, I will give you my assessment when I've tried the best gear I can get. If I'm wrong, then all we need is to fix the spawning-among-enemies problem and tanks shouldn't be a problem anymore. (Try losing three suits in a row and see whether you come back in prototype gear.)

Furthermore you can put an advanced forge gun on a militia suit and have nearly the same AV effectiveness at a fraction of the cost. You trim on a tank you save 10% but die 20% more often. You trim on your forge gunner you die twice but didn't lose ISK. If I had put all my skills so far into forges, swarms, or grenades instead of tanks, I guarantee you I would have more ISK and the same or more tank kills.

Tanks and the fittings for them are way to cheep. Already have a stock pile of them and its growing with no sign of it ever depleating.

Tank dirvers have it so easy its crazy so how about a price hike of 20-50%..

Sha karn, i'm tired of being the only one on the map trying to kill you in your tank with my militia heavy and standard forge gun or my militia Soma while your buddy drives along with his tank and shoots me in the back/side/front. but i love when i get a backshot on you with my shotgun =D

biggest issues here are lack of teamwork to cover your AV teammates, everybody is minding his own business trying to kill that guy in front of you while you have a tank decimating your team all around you
the fact that trying to take down a gunnlogi with the aforementioned fitting is pointless. i mean i landed like 4 or 5 shots on you or another tank and not even bringing down it to half shield on several ocasions is not really encouraging to skill for AV.

and somas and sicas are a joke compared to standard tanks cost effective wise
i would like to see them drop in price so it can be fielded a bit more often to respond to a mutliple standard enemy tank invasion

The first thing that has to be done is to increase the earnings. Make them like before the precursor build then more people will choose AV as well as tanks. The price of Militia tanks should be the 300k and standard tanks should cost 600k too so not too many people drive tanks.

Tank earnings last 10 games;

87k
105k
56k (spawned in and was almost over)
96k
135k
82k
122k
65k (again half way thu an ambush)
98k
153k

Easy to spot the Skirm matchs because us tankys get huge isk taking out turrets and everyones in a LAV to get about so easy pickings. Edit: Not to mention shooting down all those bolas or wut ever their called is 150 points for each one and I get loads of them lolz

Granted I not a huge ammount of ambush maps maybe only 50% which was nice.

Also killed a few tanks so helps I guess.

Well that mid level tank of mine sure pays the rent , got heaps of Type 2 hvy suits now and a garage full of dropships, not to mention the rather bling Sagas .

Is this because I'm epic good? NO its not its becuase tanks pay dam well.

All you guys being rofl stomped think this is fair ?

Edit: More I think milita tanks and gear need to be cheeper the mid level tanks 40-60% more expensive and well leave the top end tanks and black ops where its at.

Seems like this would iron everything out nice and the tankys get to keep the OP tank untouched but at a price reflecting how powerful they are.

I've never seen you period and i get similar isk in a militia av fit

4 full hits of a milita swarm launcher kill militia HAV

looks pretty good balanced to me

Noc I respect ya and tend to agree with you on the state of tanks but this statement is pure baloney . And I say this as a dedicated Heavy who specialized in AV in last patch and this one . I can tell you things aren't very cost effective for an AV Heavy due to the range nerf putting him in right in suicidal range of everything making his chance of survival way less than the tank. Using a militia suit makes this even worse as you are way less effective due to lower slots . Thus you spend more time taking more shots in paper-thin (compared to even standard heavy) armor well in range of every red dot around .

Even just paying for the Advanced gun quickly adds up and while tank has a good chance to survive several matches an AV trooper is practically guaranteed to die if tank has even minimal Infantry support . An AV heavy will find himself spending several matches as pure AI if he wants to maintain an effective AV stockpile .

I agree with you that seems about right but thats not the tanks I'm really talking about. Its the next ones up that are cheap yet uber powerful.

Milita: 110k
Standard: 400k
Advanced: 1.1mil
Black ops : lolz

This just seems to make more sense to me.

@ Khun-Al. Yea I dont know whats going on with that have had a few wierd ones myself where pay did not reflect performance.

Well since your done calling people idiots for having an opinion. I'm normaly the squad leader so perhaps thats pulling me in more isk. Other than that I dont see what else I might be doing diff from anyone else.

As for your adv tank yea it might well not be worth it isk wise. Not when you can take the cheep one thats nearly as good. See my point even a little.

I can put my hands up and say yea I might have been wrong about raising the price of em all hell lower the milita and the top end ones but this the basic ones that are outa wack.

Well I certainly do my fair share of er Tactical withdraws thats for sure. I have about 5.5 mil sp atm I doubt thats that far ahead of 90% of the player base I suck at AP now since I only have type II hvy suits and scrub guns

So noc can we agree then that the Milita and Advanced tanks could be a little cheeper but the standards need at least a little price hike ?

Com on thats some good middle ground that .

As for the black Ops well thats a loltastic price tag so maybe we should wait to see how they perform .

And for posterity sake, I admit I over-reacted to differences since I was still sore to losing a week's worth of progress to CCP's net stability issues. It left a fun vacuum that required sucking others dry to even out the pressure. The prices still are definitely not in need of a hike and anyone reporting >100k ISK average is highly abnormal at best, or only counting a good streak as more likely.

Never received a response to that message I sent you, it was highly dis-heartening. One thing no one seems to be taking into account though is HAVs are currently being used nowhere NEAR their max potential... Good teamwork, and outstanding logi (Especially if provided by a Logi HAV) will make tanks indestructible.

Unfortunately, it seems most HAV pilots have already picked out their gun-crews and teams, I joined the fight a little late, so I'm slightly behind on the gun-curve which is unfortunate as I'm not unskilled, just slightly outgunned right now. However, what applies with teamwork to take out HAV's also applies to teamwork to keep HAV's alive...

The game is going for perfect imbalance, and believe it or not, in a perfect in-balance game there is ALWAYS an OP win solution and 90% of the time it is find the most powerful build (Right now HAV's in spite of their outrageous cost), and team them up with all their vices as support, and you should be indestructible against all but the exact same counter. This is what I see and this is how it should be...

By the way Noc, I wish to extend you a quick salute to your bravado... I would have had you that match until you decided to go all Rambo Kamikaze on me and slam your HAV into the underside of mine while crippled flipping me on my side and firing a round clean up my *cough*,,, Unfortunately it just made it an excruciatingly expensive round for both of us as my tank exploding right on top of yours destroyed me and gave me a kill (First kill I've ever gotten by virtue of being killed). However, at least it made for a memorable moment, and a classic experience. I also confess before hand to the cheap shot of shooting your HAV before you were even inside it, but admit-ably I am behind the skill curve on you and wouldn't have stood a chance in a face to face fight were it not for my handicap =). Cheers, hopefully one day we'll play on the same team.

Thats if the server is up

Funny enough, that was a team mate's tank that I just jumped in when he got an unfortunate enemy spawn behind him. It was an epic way to ensure maximum destruction in a battle that began with a serious disadvantage. If you want to play on the same team you can throw me an invite in about 20 minutes. I took a break at DT for some breakfast. Gotta eat sometime I suppose.

I look forward to it. I never really planned on speccing Kill tank anyways. I became an Anti-Tank Tank in the latter half of the last build because I could, and because tanks were rampant and people were complaining, but I prefer to slap on a Missile Launcher and a lot of Logi, and go anti-infantry Logi HAV, which is sorely missing and is a MASSIVE force multiplier on the battlefield... Its also why I'm in love with spider tanking.

When everyone was throwing away their wallets at the end of the last build I took the opportunity to build some perfect spider tanking Surya fits and toss a couple on each map for people with mics, and we parked in front of C and shot over each others shoulders with our reppers going non-stop. We literally were almost invulnerable. It took sustained fire from at LEAST 5 prototype Swarms and Forge Gunners on ONE of the two tanks firing almost all at once twice in a row during the 3 second down time while our modules were rebooting to take one of us down (Which did happen but only because we were intentionally being stupid and attracting the ENTIRE opposing team to concentrate fire on us by being stationary targets in an open and obvious location),

Since logi can now be maintained in 360 degrees its even better, although I wish I could Hitch my tank to the other persons so I didn't have to drive while shooting and repairing =P. On that note if you want to make a tank OP, while not actually changing any of its statistics, allowing the pilot to allocate modules to its gunners for use would make it incredibly powerful and make Logi HAV's crazy good, without technically changing any aspect of the game.

In any case thats my two cents and now you know my goal... Right now though I'm not skilled enough for Logi so I'm just another standard tank driver.

Tanks are fine. Oh you can't afford to run an "type2" equivalent HAV? Boohoo. I can't afford Type2 suits. Constantly lose money on ambush games. I went 20/2 and was given 60k ISK. 20k LESS than my 2 suits cost (40k each). So quite frankly stuff your tank. No-one can afford anything this build EXCEPT maybe tankers or snipers. Everyone else actually fights for the objectives. Or has to face a tank on ambush.
If you take your head out of your backside, you'd realise no-one can afford anything good for more than a match.

I didn't know that, and it is a bit depressing. A Gunloggi would definitely be the way to go for a lead follow Logi tank in that case with an Armor tank in the lead. Unfortunately I'm already really deep into the Armor tanking line, so a switch would be inconvenient. I might fit a MAX build Black Ops HAV if I get a good team logi team that uses us as a spawn point in the future but shifting driving module and other controls around the tanks the various passengers, and giving other options such as literally a 'Hitch' module would be incredibly (Thing tractor beam that holds tanks together? I don't know but it could work).

Tanks are fine. Oh you can't afford to run an "type2" equivalent HAV? Boohoo. I can't afford Type2 suits. Constantly lose money on ambush games. I went 20/2 and was given 60k ISK. 20k LESS than my 2 suits cost (40k each). So quite frankly stuff your tank. No-one can afford anything this build EXCEPT maybe tankers or snipers. Everyone else actually fights for the objectives. Or has to face a tank on ambush.
If you take your head out of your backside, you'd realise no-one can afford anything good for more than a match.

You sir, are in fact, an idiot. Tank prices are idiotic for the performance as is. The militia fit sica/soma have to survive 2 rounds. Most don't last more than half. The gunnlogi/madruger have to last 15 rounds. The sagaris/surya have to last 30+. I'm not even going to guess at how long the Black Ops HAVs have to last to simply break even.

And as always, I've lost millions and millions to disconnects, 1 to a near disconnect (massive lag spike), and 1 to being outgunned and being too ballsy. All the tankers are broke already, and you want them MORE expensive? Are you mad?