CCP promised paid players would have no advantage or extra content over free players. Premium voice comms and BPO's are exactly that.

CCP promised paid players would have no advantage or extra content over free players. Premium voice comms and BPO's are exactly that.

Then free to play is a false advertisement.

And what exactly does that have to do with dust being "free to play" Not a damn thing. Take it to a different thread, thanks.


Really? so CCP charged you (and only you) for the client? Or have they suddenly started charging you (an only you) a fee to log in? Or are you CHOOSING to spend isk on one of the game's OPTIONAL features ?

Must pay in order to log in = pay to play

Free client, no server access fees = free to play




Never did understand why the difference is so hard for people to understand........

I think some people were complaining more about it is P2W not the F2P part as much.

Actually you're the one who's not getting it. Free does not involve the usage of money, as in, without charge. As soon as you charge money for any part of a game or anything at all, no matter how small, the term 'free' no longer applies, even if the cost is completely voluntary and optional. It's not a matter of opinion, but clear cut defenition.

Again, what did they force you to buy? NOTHING!! What they have done is drag some other extras in front of you and offer to sell you THE EXTRAS, you don't buy em, cool, your game still works just like it did before.

You got THE GAME free, you want the DLC skins, and DLC items, well, for those you get to pay - but your game still works FOR FREE even if you don't buy them..........

I'd guess that when you go to a store's grand opening you go for the free hotdogs and then ***** about them trying sell you stuff.......



J'Jor, for your amuse I postulate that:
1. every game that you call "pay to win" is also "free to play", it's a common issue with the business model.
2. "free to play" means exactly what it says, you (can) play for free.

Chek out DDO, LOTRO, DCUO, Maple Story, Free Realms, and WTF, why not, all the "whateverVille" games by zynga - all of which are "free to play" with optionall paid content. Just because they aren't giving away the table, doesn't mean the hotdogs weren't free......

I really am not a fan of the "free to play" model. I think it is stupid, but am willing to see how it all pans out in this game.

But even worse are these pretend forum philosophers and dullard wanna be linguists with their constant niggling and nit picking. They **** me off even more. It is as if the entire Universe is dangling from some tenuous semantic thread and if they don't stop worrying at it for one god forsaken second then... I don't know what.

I really can't stand this constant drumming up of a basically fake controversy and this game of gotcha that some people seem to want to play. It makes me want to shout "Get an f'n clue and pull your head out of your ass and take a good look at the world around you for one second. Dumbass."

It really isn't that big of a deal.

Edit* In case it wasn't clear: This is really directed at both sides of the argument but much more so at the "this game isn't free to play!" whiners. I am more in agreement with the OP and find that OP less obnoxious that the "well, when you say free, what exactly do you mean by free? Because, if one considers the nature of freedom, in its essence, in its being-free-in-itself we will see that paying, in its antithetical position to free, and further when considering paying-in-itself-in-opposition, so therefore CCP LIED AND IT ISN'T FREE IF EVEN ONE PERSON PAID OR EVEN MIGHT PAY!" crap exactly that. A stinking load of horse dung. Also I think it is past my bed time. And I would rather be winning DUST than paying to win this forum. Since everyone keeps raising their prices for likes all the time. The bastards.

But that extent of content is a wide gulf of disagreement, and the basic argument.

So there yourself you said it. Every game that is pay 2 win is free to play.

So lets all just blindly ignore bad industry trends and buy into it.
I'm not.

Really, you are overthinking this.
DUST 514 is free to download and play.
However, if it has portions of access blocked off, only open to people who pay, are we able to "play" the game ENTIRELY for free?

No.

Thats my issue. I can be fine with paid sidegrades, as long as they don't represent a fundamentally "better choice".
So other than on the extent of content you should recieve in a F2P game, I agree with you.

But that extent of content is a wide gulf of disagreement, and the basic argument.

Actually you're the one who's not getting it. Free does not involve the usage of money, as in, without charge. As soon as you charge money for any part of a game or anything at all, no matter how small, the term 'free' no longer applies, even if the cost is completely voluntary and optional. It's not a matter of opinion, but clear cut defenition.

Again, what did they force you to buy? NOTHING!! What they have done is drag some other extras in front of you and offer to sell you THE EXTRAS, you don't buy em, cool, your game still works just like it did before.

You got THE GAME free, you want the DLC skins, and DLC items, well, for those you get to pay - but your game still works FOR FREE even if you don't buy them..........

I'd guess that when you go to a store's grand opening you go for the free hotdogs and then ***** about them trying sell you stuff.......

J'Jor, for your amuse I postulate that:
1. every game that you call "pay to win" is also "free to play", it's a common issue with the business model.
2. "free to play" means exactly what it says, you (can) play for free.

Check out DDO, LOTRO, DCUO, Maple Story, Free Realms, and WTF, why not, all the "whateverVille" games by zynga - all of which are "free to play" with optionall paid content. Just because they aren't giving away the table, doesn't mean the hotdogs weren't free......

Myself I bought the Merc pack as a treat for myself for doing good on finals (OK, so the Merc Pack, and a bottle of nice Scotch, bet you can guess which lasted longer). I guess my Dragonfly scout suit and merc pack SMG are just too OP and I paid to win. (Actually due to their being bpo's I could buy that argument)

Are the AUR items a one time fee? I haven't tried purchasing a AR rifle etc with AUR.

Are the AUR items a one time fee? I haven't tried purchasing a AR rifle etc with AUR.

Actually you're the one who's not getting it. Free does not involve the usage of money, as in, without charge. As soon as you charge money for any part of a game or anything at all, no matter how small, the term 'free' no longer applies, even if the cost is completely voluntary and optional. It's not a matter of opinion, but clear cut defenition.

Are the AUR items a one time fee? I haven't tried purchasing a AR rifle etc with AUR.

But the real problem is that there are items that breaks CCP's promise of no P2W, however much P2W proponents/deniers yell there aren't.
1) Most P2W items in DUST are ones that looks like higher tier items, but are available at lower Skill cost than regular items, some with minute stat improvements, though I recall a few with slight nerfs, most have a 5-10% better stats on a few attributes.
The lower SP budget could be palpable, if that were all, we have that kind of Items in EVE, it is called "Faction" items.Though these are still ONLY available for ISK, or if you get them from the source, with LP (Loyalty Points) to the faction selling them, and ISK. See LP as War Points, earned in the service of a specific faction.

2) Then there are the elephants in the room, and some people just don't understand just how big a deal this is. P2W items with a far lower resource requirement than their standard ISK items. Some P2W items, especially Prototype level weapons, have far lower CPU and Power Grid requirements, often about HALF that of their normal counterparts. This is a phenomenal advantage, one that CAN lead to a P2W fit to be significantly better.
I know this for a fact. I did this in the previous build. The CPU/PG saved allowed me to pit more Damage mods and better items overall on a cheaper suit even, and this fil fairly easily killed Marauder tanks, where the normal fit using the ISK only Prototype Swarm Launchers could not.

So far I haven't had too much issue with DUST being termed a Free To Play Game, because it is actually Free to sit down and play. However, Im not sure about it being or not being Pay To WIN yet

Somebody around here has a superiority complex... 0_o

No, the problem here is that you see "Free 2 Play" as "Free 2 Download and Play Only".

Those who disagree (including me) say that "Free 2 Play" means not only "Play", but have as likely a given chance of winning with NO MONEY sunk into it. If I can play all I want, but those who pay have a much higher chance of winning if we are evenly matched in skill (say, if AUR dropsuits had 10,000 shield hp and were OP), then I regard the Game as Pay 2 Win.

In essence,
You are happy to be able to play a game thats explicitly advertised as "Free 2 Play" and not "Pay 2 Win", and have to pay for features that many regard as a must have in a teamwork based game, such as Corp and Alliance chat.

Others regard that as a fallacy and point out this:
That by making key features or parts of the game that are key to success unavailable to the "free" players, you have compromised the integrity of your promise of making a quality free 2 play non p2w game.

Therefore, I reject your (rather condescending) argument, as I do not regard a game with useful features barred off to the free players as a true "Free 2 Play" game.

Now lets face it, this is mostly about UVTs. I regard them as a bad idea not in use but in ideals, as it keaves a kind of bitter taste in a game thats "Free" to have to pay for voice comms on private chats. And fo be honest, will they even be used when you can just squad up with a friend and talk? Also, the whole argument about DUST/EVE connectivity.

Long story short, you can call a bus a Lamborghini if you want to, but everyone else is going to see it for what it is and call it a bus.

Have a nice evening. :)

DUST were promised NOT to be Pay2Win, but it IS.

ok I know I'm gonna get yelled at for this but you guys do understand this is still beta even if the Aur gear makes you think it is pay-to play, pay-to-win, or even free-to-play they are gonna try to keep it somewhat even for one or least they say and half of you guys are still gonna complain so why waste time talking about this other than to wait for the game to come back up :P

also to the guy who posted above me dust is mostly likely free-to-play at least somewhat because most mmos are going that way but thats what I think

No its not, no offence, but maybe its just you aren't as good at fps games as you think you are. If you look at the stats, there is no difference in gun stats as aur stats, in fact some of the isk guns actually do more damage (look at sniper rifles). Incase you havn't grasped it yet, heres how it will work:

AuR WEAPONS allow you to use a weapon slightly sooner, so you don't have to grind.

AuR Armour does nothing except make you look cooler.

With industry you will be able to build everything we use in game with crafting.

With the free market, people will be free to sell aur stuff for isk, and people with isk will be free to buy that.

Hope this helps.

So, if everything currently available for aurum was also available for isk, it would be totally free to play in your opinion?

Ah good good, I see i see.

Because it will be.
/thread

Some people excuse this with there being a Player driven market, but we haven't seen that market yet, and it is dependent on people actually selling AUR Items on that marked.
That is just not good enough.

Then free to play is a false advertisement.

then you are a fool.

I can log in to Dust without spending a penny. I can start a game without spending a penny. I can talk to every player on my team in that game without spending a penny. I can equip items that are more powerful than Aurum items (read officer mods) without spending a penny. My team can kill the opposition repeatedly without spending a penny.

Now please rather than whining about a concept that has been made up in your head with no real evidence that concept is correct, explain exactly how my team above would be defeated. ( Unless im mistaken and these UVT token's can be thrown at the enemy causing 1,000,000 to every player in a 10Km radius which i doubt)

If you dont want to spend aurum chatting to people who wont affect the battle too much then pick up you mobile, load skype on your PC, pick up your land line send a text message. There a plenty of ways you can get the exact same functionallity of what people currently assume UVT are for which brings me to my final point. Wait for the mechanic to be fully explained by CCP before passing judgement. Untill then ill keep playing beta without spending a penny and winning on this perfect example of a FREE to WIN game.

Peace out.

Good argument, I don't know how to go up against a person with your level of intelligence, so I won't.

Thank you for calling me a whining blithering idiot. It really helps keep the discission civil, ******.
Anywho, since people seem to LOVE repeating themselves pointlessly, I will make myself clear.

Just because you aren't forced to pay for something, doesn't mean that you don't need it.
So now, go ahead and reformat all your previous arguments and give them back to me.
I dont care anymore. Honestly, DUST is currently free 2 play, I agree.

I have merely been disagreeing with you all about at what point do we consider a game NOT free 2 play. Which is important, especially if CCP keeps adding items such as UVTs.

Good, because only a fool think a company will release a game and not expect them to charge for some things that will give "some" momentaneous advantage.


Take WoT for example. You can buy gold tanks imediatelly that otherwise would take many play session to aquire a similar machine thru the free game play.

They dont win though, and overall when you account for all the things on the field they dont make that much of a difference in a mach.

So yeah, I dont care "Joe" will access a better weapon 2 weeks before I can access a similar weapon thru SP grinding.

And If I care, I pay.

Yes.