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Corvus Ravensong Skyel Industries Subspace Exploration Agency 179	Posted - 2012.08.17 03:05:00 - [1] - Quote I made this tread after seeing my 36th whine post about Dust not being "Free to Play". To those of you who just can't be bothered to find out for yourselves, the term "free to play" means only 2 things........ 1. you didn't have to buy the base game 2. you don't have a subscription to play (subscription games are what people mean by "pay to play") Some things "Free to play" does not automaticly mean.... (actually these are more prevelant in the "free to play" business model than the "pay to play" model 1. All content free of charge. 2. All areas available to all levels of users. 3. All playstyles available to all users. You check any major "free to play" game, and there are microtransactions, you know stuff like "special" animals for your farm, weapons for your mobster, optional classes to play as, "leet" battle gear, all purchased with real money and spent on "free to play" games.
TEBOW BAGGINS FIREFLY ATLANTIS ENTERPRISES UNLIMITED TACNET 549	Posted - 2012.08.17 03:08:00 - [2] - Quote don't even get me started on the rant of we paid thousands of dollars in the 80's to play spy hunter... lol "special animals for your farm" and they accuse us real gamers of being loosers..
Veigar Mordekaiser Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 676	Posted - 2012.08.17 03:08:00 - [3] - Quote CCP promised paid players would have no advantage or extra content over free players. Premium voice comms and BPO's are exactly that.
Benjamin Hellios Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 259	Posted - 2012.08.17 03:09:00 - [4] - Quote Then free to play is a false advertisement.
Longshot Ravenwood Algintal Core Gallente Federation 680	Posted - 2012.08.17 03:21:00 - [5] - Quote Veigar Mordekaiser wrote: CCP promised paid players would have no advantage or extra content over free players. Premium voice comms and BPO's are exactly that. At this point I don't care if you're right or not. Thank you CCP for not forcing me to have to listen to this guy over voice com. I appreciate anything you do to help keep his voice out of any room I'm in.
Corvus Ravensong Skyel Industries Subspace Exploration Agency 179	Posted - 2012.08.17 03:21:00 - [6] - Quote Veigar Mordekaiser wrote: CCP promised paid players would have no advantage or extra content over free players. Premium voice comms and BPO's are exactly that. And what exactly does that have to do with dust being "free to play" Not a damn thing. Take it to a different thread, thanks. Quote: Then free to play is a false advertisement. Really? so CCP charged you (and only you) for the client? Or have they suddenly started charging you (an only you) a fee to log in? Or are you CHOOSING to spend isk on one of the game's OPTIONAL features ? Must pay in order to log in = pay to play Free client, no server access fees = free to play Never did understand why the difference is so hard for people to understand........
Benjamin Hellios Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 259	Posted - 2012.08.17 03:31:00 - [7] - Quote Corvus Ravensong wrote: Veigar Mordekaiser wrote: CCP promised paid players would have no advantage or extra content over free players. Premium voice comms and BPO's are exactly that. And what exactly does that have to do with dust being "free to play" Not a damn thing. Take it to a different thread, thanks. Quote: Then free to play is a false advertisement. Really? so CCP charged you (and only you) for the client? Or have they suddenly started charging you (an only you) a fee to log in? Or are you CHOOSING to spend isk on one of the game's OPTIONAL features ? Must pay in order to log in = pay to play Free client, no server access fees = free to play Never did understand why the difference is so hard for people to understand........ Actually you're the one who's not getting it. Free does not involve the usage of money, as in, without charge. As soon as you charge money for any part of a game or anything at all, no matter how small, the term 'free' no longer applies, even if the cost is completely voluntary and optional. It's not a matter of opinion, but clear cut defenition.
Kira Lannister Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 711	Posted - 2012.08.17 03:31:00 - [8] - Quote I think some people were complaining more about it is P2W not the F2P part as much.
Milk Supreme ZionTCD Legacy Rising 127	Posted - 2012.08.17 03:32:00 - [9] - Quote Kira Lannister wrote: I think some people were complaining more about it is P2W not the F2P part as much.
Aighun Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 666	Posted - 2012.08.17 03:36:00 - [10] - Quote I really am not a fan of the "free to play" model. I think it is stupid, but am willing to see how it all pans out in this game. But even worse are these pretend forum philosophers and dullard wanna be linguists with their constant niggling and nit picking. They **** me off even more. It is as if the entire Universe is dangling from some tenuous semantic thread and if they don't stop worrying at it for one god forsaken second then... I don't know what. I really can't stand this constant drumming up of a basically fake controversy and this game of gotcha that some people seem to want to play. It makes me want to shout "Get an f'n clue and pull your head out of your ass and take a good look at the world around you for one second. Dumbass." It really isn't that big of a deal. Edit* In case it wasn't clear: This is really directed at both sides of the argument but much more so at the "this game isn't free to play!" whiners. I am more in agreement with the OP and find that OP less obnoxious that the "well, when you say free, what exactly do you mean by free? Because, if one considers the nature of freedom, in its essence, in its being-free-in-itself we will see that paying, in its antithetical position to free, and further when considering paying-in-itself-in-opposition, so therefore CCP LIED AND IT ISN'T FREE IF EVEN ONE PERSON PAID OR EVEN MIGHT PAY!" crap exactly that. A stinking load of horse dung. Also I think it is past my bed time. And I would rather be winning DUST than paying to win this forum. Since everyone keeps raising their prices for likes all the time. The bastards.

J'Jor Da'Wg KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 648	Posted - 2012.08.17 03:37:00 - [11] - Quote Somebody around here has a superiority complex... 0_o No, the problem here is that you see "Free 2 Play" as "Free 2 Download and Play Only". Those who disagree (including me) say that "Free 2 Play" means not only "Play", but have as likely a given chance of winning with NO MONEY sunk into it. If I can play all I want, but those who pay have a much higher chance of winning if we are evenly matched in skill (say, if AUR dropsuits had 10,000 shield hp and were OP), then I regard the Game as Pay 2 Win. In essence, You are happy to be able to play a game thats explicitly advertised as "Free 2 Play" and not "Pay 2 Win", and have to pay for features that many regard as a must have in a teamwork based game, such as Corp and Alliance chat. Others regard that as a fallacy and point out this: That by making key features or parts of the game that are key to success unavailable to the "free" players, you have compromised the integrity of your promise of making a quality free 2 play non p2w game. Therefore, I reject your (rather condescending) argument, as I do not regard a game with useful features barred off to the free players as a true "Free 2 Play" game. Now lets face it, this is mostly about UVTs. I regard them as a bad idea not in use but in ideals, as it keaves a kind of bitter taste in a game thats "Free" to have to pay for voice comms on private chats. And fo be honest, will they even be used when you can just squad up with a friend and talk? Also, the whole argument about DUST/EVE connectivity. Long story short, you can call a bus a Lamborghini if you want to, but everyone else is going to see it for what it is and call it a bus. Have a nice evening. :)
Corvus Ravensong Skyel Industries Subspace Exploration Agency 179	Posted - 2012.08.17 03:41:00 - [12] - Quote Benjamin Hellios wrote: Corvus Ravensong wrote: Veigar Mordekaiser wrote: CCP promised paid players would have no advantage or extra content over free players. Premium voice comms and BPO's are exactly that. And what exactly does that have to do with dust being "free to play" Not a damn thing. Take it to a different thread, thanks. Quote: Then free to play is a false advertisement. Really? so CCP charged you (and only you) for the client? Or have they suddenly started charging you (an only you) a fee to log in? Or are you CHOOSING to spend isk on one of the game's OPTIONAL features ? Must pay in order to log in = pay to play Free client, no server access fees = free to play Never did understand why the difference is so hard for people to understand........ Actually you're the one who's not getting it. Free does not involve the usage of money, as in, without charge. As soon as you charge money for any part of a game or anything at all, no matter how small, the term 'free' no longer applies, even if the cost is completely voluntary and optional. It's not a matter of opinion, but clear cut defenition. Again, what did they force you to buy? NOTHING!! What they have done is drag some other extras in front of you and offer to sell you THE EXTRAS, you don't buy em, cool, your game still works just like it did before. You got THE GAME free, you want the DLC skins, and DLC items, well, for those you get to pay - but your game still works FOR FREE even if you don't buy them.......... I'd guess that when you go to a store's grand opening you go for the free hotdogs and then ***** about them trying sell you stuff....... J'Jor, for your amuse I postulate that: 1. every game that you call "pay to win" is also "free to play", it's a common issue with the business model. 2. "free to play" means exactly what it says, you (can) play for free. Check out DDO, LOTRO, DCUO, Maple Story, Free Realms, and WTF, why not, all the "whateverVille" games by zynga - all of which are "free to play" with optionall paid content. Just because they aren't giving away the table, doesn't mean the hotdogs weren't free......
J'Jor Da'Wg KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 648	Posted - 2012.08.17 04:02:00 - [13] - Quote Corvus Ravensong wrote: Benjamin Hellios wrote: Corvus Ravensong wrote: Veigar Mordekaiser wrote: CCP promised paid players would have no advantage or extra content over free players. Premium voice comms and BPO's are exactly that. And what exactly does that have to do with dust being "free to play" Not a damn thing. Take it to a different thread, thanks. Quote: Then free to play is a false advertisement. Really? so CCP charged you (and only you) for the client? Or have they suddenly started charging you (an only you) a fee to log in? Or are you CHOOSING to spend isk on one of the game's OPTIONAL features ? Must pay in order to log in = pay to play Free client, no server access fees = free to play Never did understand why the difference is so hard for people to understand........ Actually you're the one who's not getting it. Free does not involve the usage of money, as in, without charge. As soon as you charge money for any part of a game or anything at all, no matter how small, the term 'free' no longer applies, even if the cost is completely voluntary and optional. It's not a matter of opinion, but clear cut defenition. Again, what did they force you to buy? NOTHING!! What they have done is drag some other extras in front of you and offer to sell you THE EXTRAS, you don't buy em, cool, your game still works just like it did before. You got THE GAME free, you want the DLC skins, and DLC items, well, for those you get to pay - but your game still works FOR FREE even if you don't buy them.......... I'd guess that when you go to a store's grand opening you go for the free hotdogs and then ***** about them trying sell you stuff....... J'Jor, for your amuse I postulate that: 1. every game that you call "pay to win" is also "free to play", it's a common issue with the business model. 2. "free to play" means exactly what it says, you (can) play for free. Chek out DDO, LOTRO, DCUO, Maple Story, Free Realms, and WTF, why not, all the "whateverVille" games by zynga - all of which are "free to play" with optionall paid content. Just because they aren't giving away the table, doesn't mean the hotdogs weren't free...... So there yourself you said it. Every game that is pay 2 win is free to play. So lets all just blindly ignore bad industry trends and buy into it. I'm not. Really, you are overthinking this. DUST 514 is free to download and play. However, if it has portions of access blocked off, only open to people who pay, are we able to "play" the game ENTIRELY for free? No. Thats my issue. I can be fine with paid sidegrades, as long as they don't represent a fundamentally "better choice". So other than on the extent of content you should recieve in a F2P game, I agree with you. But that extent of content is a wide gulf of disagreement, and the basic argument.
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Legacy Rising 404	Posted - 2012.08.17 04:11:00 - [14] - Quote Aighun wrote: I really am not a fan of the "free to play" model. I think it is stupid, but am willing to see how it all pans out in this game. But even worse are these pretend forum philosophers and dullard wanna be linguists with their constant niggling and nit picking. They **** me off even more. It is as if the entire Universe is dangling from some tenuous semantic thread and if they don't stop worrying at it for one god forsaken second then... I don't know what. I really can't stand this constant drumming up of a basically fake controversy and this game of gotcha that some people seem to want to play. It makes me want to shout "Get an f'n clue and pull your head out of your ass and take a good look at the world around you for one second. Dumbass." It really isn't that big of a deal. Edit* In case it wasn't clear: This is really directed at both sides of the argument but much more so at the "this game isn't free to play!" whiners. I am more in agreement with the OP and find that OP less obnoxious that the "well, when you say free, what exactly do you mean by free? Because, if one considers the nature of freedom, in its essence, in its being-free-in-itself we will see that paying, in its antithetical position to free, and further when considering paying-in-itself-in-opposition, so therefore CCP LIED AND IT ISN'T FREE IF EVEN ONE PERSON PAID OR EVEN MIGHT PAY!" crap exactly that. A stinking load of horse dung. Also I think it is past my bed time. And I would rather be winning DUST than paying to win this forum. Since everyone keeps raising their prices for likes all the time. The bastards. Well, I don't have much to say about anything topical. Still thinking about the UVT - I rent a high-quality TS/Vent server for $3 a month. BUT...... +1! for 'the entire Universe is dangling from some tenuous semantic thread' =)
Aighun Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 666	Posted - 2012.08.17 04:18:00 - [15] - Quote J'Jor Da'Wg wrote: But that extent of content is a wide gulf of disagreement, and the basic argument. Here's the thing. It has been stated that all items available for AUR will be available for ISK in a player driven market. How do you gain ISK? Playing the game for free. If the market does not work as stated, you might have a point. Otherwise you do not. At all. You are just making vast assumptions about how the market will work based on some test case stuff that has been set up for the BETA. All a player will need to do to get anything will be to play enough to earn ISK, save enough ISK to buy what they want, and then buy it. It might not be easy to get everything. But ffs no one promised DUST 514 would be easy. I don't play EVE but I did look into the game enough to learn that a player can earn enough in game currency to pay for their subscription by buying the equivalent on the player driven market. There is no reason to assume that microtransactions in DUST 514 will work any differently. In other words, some players can play the game to earn what other players spend money on, in the same game. So it seems that DUST will actually go above and beyond what any other games on the "free to play" model do. in providing gamers with options for playing without paying. Unless you are arguing that time is money and that every minute spent playing is spent paying?
Corvus Ravensong Skyel Industries Subspace Exploration Agency 179	Posted - 2012.08.17 04:26:00 - [16] - Quote J'Jor Da'Wg wrote: Corvus Ravensong wrote: Benjamin Hellios wrote: Corvus Ravensong wrote: Veigar Mordekaiser wrote: CCP promised paid players would have no advantage or extra content over free players. Premium voice comms and BPO's are exactly that. And what exactly does that have to do with dust being "free to play" Not a damn thing. Take it to a different thread, thanks. Then free to play is a false advertisement. Really? so CCP charged you (and only you) for the client? Or have they suddenly started charging you (an only you) a fee to log in? Or are you CHOOSING to spend isk on one of the game's OPTIONAL features ? Must pay in order to log in = pay to play Free client, no server access fees = free to play Never did understand why the difference is so hard for people to understand........ Actually you're the one who's not getting it. Free does not involve the usage of money, as in, without charge. As soon as you charge money for any part of a game or anything at all, no matter how small, the term 'free' no longer applies, even if the cost is completely voluntary and optional. It's not a matter of opinion, but clear cut defenition. Again, what did they force you to buy? NOTHING!! What they have done is drag some other extras in front of you and offer to sell you THE EXTRAS, you don't buy em, cool, your game still works just like it did before. You got THE GAME free, you want the DLC skins, and DLC items, well, for those you get to pay - but your game still works FOR FREE even if you don't buy them.......... I'd guess that when you go to a store's grand opening you go for the free hotdogs and then ***** about them trying sell you stuff....... J'Jor, for your amuse I postulate that: 1. every game that you call "pay to win" is also "free to play", it's a common issue with the business model. 2. "free to play" means exactly what it says, you (can) play for free. Chek out DDO, LOTRO, DCUO, Maple Story, Free Realms, and WTF, why not, all the "whateverVille" games by zynga - all of which are "free to play" with optionall paid content. Just because they aren't giving away the table, doesn't mean the hotdogs weren't free...... So there yourself you said it. Every game that is pay 2 win is free to play. So lets all just blindly ignore bad industry trends and buy into it. I'm not. Really, you are overthinking this. DUST 514 is free to download and play. However, if it has portions of access blocked off, only open to people who pay, are we able to "play" the game ENTIRELY for free? No. Thats my issue. I can be fine with paid sidegrades, as long as they don't represent a fundamentally "better choice". So other than on the extent of content you should recieve in a F2P game, I agree with you. But that extent of content is a wide gulf of disagreement, and the basic argument. Sorry dude, I didn't know that when the ENTIRE videogame industry says one thing and YOU say something else that YOU are right. Very well Mr. Webster, you may re-write the definition of the term "free to play" however you desire, since understanding it's current meaning is beyond you. Might I reccomend some further requirements for you? 1. The "free to play" game must not require a Television or other electronic device, since requiring someone to but those violates the principle of the game being "free". 2. In order to truely be "free" to play the game cannot require any time to be "spent" on it, as spending is something yu should never do on something free. 3. All employees working on a "free" to play game bust be fired and replaced with either slaves or volunteers, because if they are "paid" it's no longer "free". Post Script: I hope none of you are taking this amusement thread too seriously, my original post was needed by some - the rest has been simple amusement.
Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. 1216	Posted - 2012.08.17 04:31:00 - [17] - Quote Benjamin Hellios wrote: Corvus Ravensong wrote: Veigar Mordekaiser wrote: CCP promised paid players would have no advantage or extra content over free players. Premium voice comms and BPO's are exactly that. And what exactly does that have to do with dust being "free to play" Not a damn thing. Take it to a different thread, thanks. Quote: Then free to play is a false advertisement. Really? so CCP charged you (and only you) for the client? Or have they suddenly started charging you (an only you) a fee to log in? Or are you CHOOSING to spend isk on one of the game's OPTIONAL features ? Must pay in order to log in = pay to play Free client, no server access fees = free to play Never did understand why the difference is so hard for people to understand........ Actually you're the one who's not getting it. Free does not involve the usage of money, as in, without charge. As soon as you charge money for any part of a game or anything at all, no matter how small, the term 'free' no longer applies, even if the cost is completely voluntary and optional. It's not a matter of opinion, but clear cut defenition. TANSTAAFL
Ourors Doomheim 130	Posted - 2012.08.17 04:37:00 - [18] - Quote well, there is a sort of ethical distribution in the f2p model, which is why lots of EVE players were super concerned about DUST when it was announced to be f2p ever seen all those korean f2p mmos? notice how there are always big gaps between the paying and non paying customers? this is actually the vast majority of f2p games, but people are really starting to get sick of it ccp promised that dust would not be like that, and so far it isn't....but there are some questionable decisions going on NOT THE UNIVERSAL VOICE THING, that's just a convenient feature i'm talking about the really weird aurum items, the ones that are slightly better than prototype, but cost real money, THAT'S the real problem. i'm worried there will be a power creep
LT Dans Legs Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 72	Posted - 2012.08.17 04:40:00 - [19] - Quote They should have just charged 60 bucks like everyone else and your set. But you do have to realize that we may still be playing this game 10 years from now. So iguess there would need to be balance somewhere. I mean how many COD games do people buy every year? 2? I hate COD but im just using it as an example. Im still unsure about this whole thing too wondering how much I will eventually spend. I mean, I had already planned on dropping like 20 buck here and there if need be like every other month or somethin. You know, tax return comes in so u treat yourself to a little Dust goodies. But if by the end of a year youve had to spend 2 or 3 hundred bucks into it just to keep up then Im not gonna be able to do that. We are in a recession.
Timothy Reaper ZionTCD Legacy Rising 321	Posted - 2012.08.17 04:44:00 - [20] - Quote If a common industry term bugs you so much, then go play something else and let rest of us have fun. Edit: Kittenholes.

Corvus Ravensong Skyel Industries Subspace Exploration Agency 179	Posted - 2012.08.17 04:46:00 - [21] - Quote Myself I bought the Merc pack as a treat for myself for doing good on finals (OK, so the Merc Pack, and a bottle of nice Scotch, bet you can guess which lasted longer). I guess my Dragonfly scout suit and merc pack SMG are just too OP and I paid to win. (Actually due to their being bpo's I could buy that argument)
Dewie Cheecham Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 677	Posted - 2012.08.17 06:08:00 - [22] - Quote Corvus Ravensong wrote: Again, what did they force you to buy? NOTHING!! What they have done is drag some other extras in front of you and offer to sell you THE EXTRAS, you don't buy em, cool, your game still works just like it did before. You got THE GAME free, you want the DLC skins, and DLC items, well, for those you get to pay - but your game still works FOR FREE even if you don't buy them.......... I'd guess that when you go to a store's grand opening you go for the free hotdogs and then ***** about them trying sell you stuff....... This is where I have to step in. There is a difference between Free2Play and Pay2Win. Most of us accept that Free2Play involves micro transactions in order to finance the game. In this case those are in the form of Aurum. I honestly don't like them, but they are there. Where the chain breaks is when these micro transactions enable players to pay real money in order to gain an advantage, any advantage, you enter the realm of Pay2Win, and it is here most people tend to get emotional. Especially in the light of CCP's promise that Dust would never BE Pay2Win, that there would be NO items or services available for Aurum that could not be bought for ISK. A promise CCP were forced to make in the face of a mass exodus of veteran players, and players severely disrupting the in game economy of EVE Online in protests. (A non-bannable offence in EVE I might add) Some people excuse this with there being a Player driven market, but we haven't seen that market yet, and it is dependent on people actually selling AUR Items on that marked. That is just not good enough. But the real problem is that there are items that breaks CCP's promise of no P2W, however much P2W proponents/deniers yell there aren't. 1) Most P2W items in DUST are ones that looks like higher tier items, but are available at lower Skill cost than regular items, some with minute stat improvements, though I recall a few with slight nerfs, most have a 5-10% better stats on a few attributes. The lower SP budget could be palpable, if that were all, we have that kind of Items in EVE, it is called "Faction" items.Though these are still ONLY available for ISK, or if you get them from the source, with LP (Loyalty Points) to the faction selling them, and ISK. See LP as War Points, earned in the service of a specific faction. 2) Then there are the elephants in the room, and some people just don't understand just how big a deal this is. P2W items with a far lower resource requirement than their standard ISK items. Some P2W items, especially Prototype level weapons, have far lower CPU and Power Grid requirements, often about HALF that of their normal counterparts. This is a phenomenal advantage, one that CAN lead to a P2W fit to be significantly better. I know this for a fact. I did this in the previous build. The CPU/PG saved allowed me to fit more Damage mods and better items overall on a cheaper suit even, and this fit fairly easily killed Marauder tanks, where the normal fit using the ISK only Prototype Swarm Launchers could not. THAT is the deal breaker, because THAT is where people paying Aurum can get an advantage over non paying players, an advantage that is hard, if not impossible to meet without Aurum, even if the non Aurum player have to grind much harder to get the SP earnings an Aurum player can get (with the Skill booster, and presumably the other booster packages on the Augmentations screen), and have to earn twice the SP on top of that, because the Non Aurum Prototype items easily cost twice the SP to get. In other words, an Aurum player can get a similar suit about 3 times faster. My Advice to CCP is, and always will be: DROP AURUM ENTIRELY, and let players buy ISK through a similar mechanism we have in EVE. In short, I'm not talking about Free2Play, I'm talking about Pay2Win. I'm not talking about the UVT, though I am outraged that they did this, and even more so at the prices they charge, and the initial lack of information, leaving us to speculate for most of a day before any information came out of CCP. Corvus Ravensong wrote: J'Jor, for your amuse I postulate that: 1. every game that you call "pay to win" is also "free to play", it's a common issue with the business model. 2. "free to play" means exactly what it says, you (can) play for free. Check out DDO, LOTRO, DCUO, Maple Story, Free Realms, and WTF, why not, all the "whateverVille" games by zynga - all of which are "free to play" with optionall paid content. Just because they aren't giving away the table, doesn't mean the hotdogs weren't free...... Those are OFFICIALLY Pay2Win types, DUST were promised NOT to be Pay2Win, but it IS.
Dewie Cheecham Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 677	Posted - 2012.08.17 06:30:00 - [23] - Quote Corvus Ravensong wrote: Myself I bought the Merc pack as a treat for myself for doing good on finals (OK, so the Merc Pack, and a bottle of nice Scotch, bet you can guess which lasted longer). I guess my Dragonfly scout suit and merc pack SMG are just too OP and I paid to win. (Actually due to their being bpo's I could buy that argument) The Dragonfly suit is essentially an Assault I suit with a different design. That isn't too terrible in my opinion. Had it been a Prrototype level suit, I'd have been far more concerned about its BPO nature.
Ad ski IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 209	Posted - 2012.08.17 06:48:00 - [24] - Quote Are the AUR items a one time fee? I haven't tried purchasing a AR rifle etc with AUR.
Debacle Nano Shadow Company HQ 639	Posted - 2012.08.17 06:51:00 - [25] - Quote Ad ski wrote: Are the AUR items a one time fee? I haven't tried purchasing a AR rifle etc with AUR. No. They are used up.
Dewie Cheecham Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 677	Posted - 2012.08.17 06:52:00 - [26] - Quote Ad ski wrote: Are the AUR items a one time fee? I haven't tried purchasing a AR rifle etc with AUR. Luckily no. So far there are no such AUR items on the market. You spend AUR items at the same rate as any other when you get killed.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2012.08.17 06:54:00 - [27] - Quote Benjamin Hellios wrote: Corvus Ravensong wrote: Veigar Mordekaiser wrote: CCP promised paid players would have no advantage or extra content over free players. Premium voice comms and BPO's are exactly that. And what exactly does that have to do with dust being "free to play" Not a damn thing. Take it to a different thread, thanks. Quote: Then free to play is a false advertisement. Really? so CCP charged you (and only you) for the client? Or have they suddenly started charging you (an only you) a fee to log in? Or are you CHOOSING to spend isk on one of the game's OPTIONAL features ? Must pay in order to log in = pay to play Free client, no server access fees = free to play Never did understand why the difference is so hard for people to understand........ Actually you're the one who's not getting it. Free does not involve the usage of money, as in, without charge. As soon as you charge money for any part of a game or anything at all, no matter how small, the term 'free' no longer applies, even if the cost is completely voluntary and optional. It's not a matter of opinion, but clear cut defenition. Some one has to pay the bills.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2012.08.17 06:54:00 - [28] - Quote Ad ski wrote: Are the AUR items a one time fee? I haven't tried purchasing a AR rifle etc with AUR. Only a few suits that are only type 1s.
Pezz IsDank Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 171	Posted - 2012.08.17 07:07:00 - [29] - Quote Hmm... Whenever I have doubts about myself I can always feel better about myself after reading posts on video game forums. How hard is it to understand what makes a game a free to play game? Having been gaming almost all my life now and playing a ton of F2P games I've noticed that they generally: Have items that you can buy with real money, usually some that are just for looks and have no real function and some that do give an advantage. If those items are better than any of it's type then I feel the game is "Pay 2 Win". However, I understand that just because people CAN buy items to gain a slight advantage the game is still free to play. I can log in any time without investing any money to obtain the game, and I can play it. After reading these posts I can't help but think that people don't understand that a game can be free to play, and still pay to win at the same time. Sure you can sit there and debate about how a game technically isn't free because you spent real money on some stupid item but the fact that it is a free game is undeniable. Look at a lot of the big hitter free games, they all have pay 2 win functions in them at one place or another, but they're still free to play. It's your choice on if you want to spend money on it, until they force you to spend your money on the game it remains free to play. Obviously.
Chris Ridgeway 42	Posted - 2012.08.17 07:07:00 - [30] - Quote So far I haven't had too much issue with DUST being termed a Free To Play Game, because it is actually Free to sit down and play. However, Im not sure about it being or not being Pay To WIN yet Now I did notice a few that were lower PG/CPU and those started to make me worry, and I brought it up to my friend who also agreed. You get a significant advantage when you start cutting PG/CPU requirements on stuff. There's a reason Engineering and Electronics skills exist. Along with the Light Weapon Proficiency And Side Arm Proficiency skills to cut CPU requirements of weapons. So no I don't like that at all, and I hope they change it. The lowering skill cost doesn't bother me in the slightest, as long as the PG/CPU remain the same on the weapon or module as it's equal isk counterparts. If someone wants to pay money for a Proto Rifle when they should be using an advanced or standard one that's fine with me. I don't see it as and advantage as much as you're spending money to get something a little faster than non paying folks. And as always some people have more money than sense. Sidegrades Im kinda on the fence about. It depends on what the bonus is vs the negative. If your ISK Pistol Does 20 Damage a shot, Fires 60 Rounds a Minute, and has a 5 second reload, with a 20 round clip. And your "Sidegrade/AUR" Pistol does 30 damage a shot, Fires 60 Rounds a Minute, has a 7 second reload, and a 20 round clip, your AUR pistol is better. If you can't see that you need to learn some math. But if you wanted to give it 30 damage a shot, and have it fire 40 rounds a minute then Ok. Cause then they are doing the same overall DPS. Which at the end of the day is what's gonna matter. Im sure some people will disagree, course those are probably the retards I see bunny hopping and squatting while being shot at, like that helps the slightest bit. So I haven't fully made up my mind yet as to whether this game is gonna get it right or not. You have to be very careful with "Sidegrades" which could encompass the CPU/PG requirements. The UVT thing as everyone knows doesn't bother me. Because being able to talk to your Corp Leader on the other side of the galaxy isn't gonna help you when Im stomping that ass in the current battle we are sitting in. Im just saying.



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