But the real problem is that there are items that breaks CCP's promise of no P2W, however much P2W proponents/deniers yell there aren't.
1) Most P2W items in DUST are ones that looks like higher tier items, but are available at lower Skill cost than regular items, some with minute stat improvements, though I recall a few with slight nerfs, most have a 5-10% better stats on a few attributes.
The lower SP budget could be palpable, if that were all, we have that kind of Items in EVE, it is called "Faction" items.Though these are still ONLY available for ISK, or if you get them from the source, with LP (Loyalty Points) to the faction selling them, and ISK. See LP as War Points, earned in the service of a specific faction.

2) Then there are the elephants in the room, and some people just don't understand just how big a deal this is. P2W items with a far lower resource requirement than their standard ISK items. Some P2W items, especially Prototype level weapons, have far lower CPU and Power Grid requirements, often about HALF that of their normal counterparts. This is a phenomenal advantage, one that CAN lead to a P2W fit to be significantly better.
I know this for a fact. I did this in the previous build. The CPU/PG saved allowed me to pit more Damage mods and better items overall on a cheaper suit even, and this fil fairly easily killed Marauder tanks, where the normal fit using the ISK only Prototype Swarm Launchers could not.

So far I haven't had too much issue with DUST being termed a Free To Play Game, because it is actually Free to sit down and play. However, Im not sure about it being or not being Pay To WIN yet

Somebody around here has a superiority complex... 0_o

No, the problem here is that you see "Free 2 Play" as "Free 2 Download and Play Only".

Those who disagree (including me) say that "Free 2 Play" means not only "Play", but have as likely a given chance of winning with NO MONEY sunk into it. If I can play all I want, but those who pay have a much higher chance of winning if we are evenly matched in skill (say, if AUR dropsuits had 10,000 shield hp and were OP), then I regard the Game as Pay 2 Win.

In essence,
You are happy to be able to play a game thats explicitly advertised as "Free 2 Play" and not "Pay 2 Win", and have to pay for features that many regard as a must have in a teamwork based game, such as Corp and Alliance chat.

Others regard that as a fallacy and point out this:
That by making key features or parts of the game that are key to success unavailable to the "free" players, you have compromised the integrity of your promise of making a quality free 2 play non p2w game.

Therefore, I reject your (rather condescending) argument, as I do not regard a game with useful features barred off to the free players as a true "Free 2 Play" game.

Now lets face it, this is mostly about UVTs. I regard them as a bad idea not in use but in ideals, as it keaves a kind of bitter taste in a game thats "Free" to have to pay for voice comms on private chats. And fo be honest, will they even be used when you can just squad up with a friend and talk? Also, the whole argument about DUST/EVE connectivity.

Long story short, you can call a bus a Lamborghini if you want to, but everyone else is going to see it for what it is and call it a bus.

Have a nice evening. :)

DUST were promised NOT to be Pay2Win, but it IS.

ok I know I'm gonna get yelled at for this but you guys do understand this is still beta even if the Aur gear makes you think it is pay-to play, pay-to-win, or even free-to-play they are gonna try to keep it somewhat even for one or least they say and half of you guys are still gonna complain so why waste time talking about this other than to wait for the game to come back up :P

also to the guy who posted above me dust is mostly likely free-to-play at least somewhat because most mmos are going that way but thats what I think

No its not, no offence, but maybe its just you aren't as good at fps games as you think you are. If you look at the stats, there is no difference in gun stats as aur stats, in fact some of the isk guns actually do more damage (look at sniper rifles). Incase you havn't grasped it yet, heres how it will work:

AuR WEAPONS allow you to use a weapon slightly sooner, so you don't have to grind.

AuR Armour does nothing except make you look cooler.

With industry you will be able to build everything we use in game with crafting.

With the free market, people will be free to sell aur stuff for isk, and people with isk will be free to buy that.

Hope this helps.

So, if everything currently available for aurum was also available for isk, it would be totally free to play in your opinion?

Ah good good, I see i see.

Because it will be.
/thread

Some people excuse this with there being a Player driven market, but we haven't seen that market yet, and it is dependent on people actually selling AUR Items on that marked.
That is just not good enough.

Then free to play is a false advertisement.

then you are a fool.

I can log in to Dust without spending a penny. I can start a game without spending a penny. I can talk to every player on my team in that game without spending a penny. I can equip items that are more powerful than Aurum items (read officer mods) without spending a penny. My team can kill the opposition repeatedly without spending a penny.

Now please rather than whining about a concept that has been made up in your head with no real evidence that concept is correct, explain exactly how my team above would be defeated. ( Unless im mistaken and these UVT token's can be thrown at the enemy causing 1,000,000 to every player in a 10Km radius which i doubt)

If you dont want to spend aurum chatting to people who wont affect the battle too much then pick up you mobile, load skype on your PC, pick up your land line send a text message. There a plenty of ways you can get the exact same functionallity of what people currently assume UVT are for which brings me to my final point. Wait for the mechanic to be fully explained by CCP before passing judgement. Untill then ill keep playing beta without spending a penny and winning on this perfect example of a FREE to WIN game.

Peace out.

Good argument, I don't know how to go up against a person with your level of intelligence, so I won't.

Thank you for calling me a whining blithering idiot. It really helps keep the discission civil, ******.
Anywho, since people seem to LOVE repeating themselves pointlessly, I will make myself clear.

Just because you aren't forced to pay for something, doesn't mean that you don't need it.
So now, go ahead and reformat all your previous arguments and give them back to me.
I dont care anymore. Honestly, DUST is currently free 2 play, I agree.

I have merely been disagreeing with you all about at what point do we consider a game NOT free 2 play. Which is important, especially if CCP keeps adding items such as UVTs.

Good, because only a fool think a company will release a game and not expect them to charge for some things that will give "some" momentaneous advantage.


Take WoT for example. You can buy gold tanks imediatelly that otherwise would take many play session to aquire a similar machine thru the free game play.

They dont win though, and overall when you account for all the things on the field they dont make that much of a difference in a mach.

So yeah, I dont care "Joe" will access a better weapon 2 weeks before I can access a similar weapon thru SP grinding.

And If I care, I pay.

Yes.