DUST Search - Explaination of what "Free to play" means

J'Jor Da'Wg wrote:

Corvus Ravensong wrote:

Benjamin Hellios wrote:

Corvus Ravensong wrote:

Veigar Mordekaiser wrote:

CCP promised paid players would have no advantage or extra content over free players. Premium voice comms and BPO's are exactly that.

And what exactly does that have to do with dust being "free to play" Not a damn thing. Take it to a different thread, thanks.

Then free to play is a false advertisement.

Really? so CCP charged you (and only you) for the client? Or have they suddenly started charging you (an only you) a fee to log in? Or are you CHOOSING to spend isk on one of the game's OPTIONAL features ?

Must pay in order to log in = pay to play

Free client, no server access fees = free to play

Never did understand why the difference is so hard for people to understand........

Actually you're the one who's not getting it. Free does not involve the usage of money, as in, without charge. As soon as you charge money for any part of a game or anything at all, no matter how small, the term 'free' no longer applies, even if the cost is completely voluntary and optional. It's not a matter of opinion, but clear cut defenition.

Again, what did they force you to buy? NOTHING!! What they have done is drag some other extras in front of you and offer to sell you THE EXTRAS, you don't buy em, cool, your game still works just like it did before.

You got THE GAME free, you want the DLC skins, and DLC items, well, for those you get to pay - but your game still works FOR FREE even if you don't buy them..........

I'd guess that when you go to a store's grand opening you go for the free hotdogs and then ***** about them trying sell you stuff.......

J'Jor, for your amuse I postulate that:
1. every game that you call "pay to win" is also "free to play", it's a common issue with the business model.
2. "free to play" means exactly what it says, you (can) play for free.

Chek out DDO, LOTRO, DCUO, Maple Story, Free Realms, and WTF, why not, all the "whateverVille" games by zynga - all of which are "free to play" with optionall paid content. Just because they aren't giving away the table, doesn't mean the hotdogs weren't free......

So there yourself you said it. Every game that is pay 2 win is free to play.

So lets all just blindly ignore bad industry trends and buy into it.
I'm not.

Really, you are overthinking this.
DUST 514 is free to download and play.
However, if it has portions of access blocked off, only open to people who pay, are we able to "play" the game ENTIRELY for free?

No.

Thats my issue. I can be fine with paid sidegrades, as long as they don't represent a fundamentally "better choice".
So other than on the extent of content you should recieve in a F2P game, I agree with you.

But that extent of content is a wide gulf of disagreement, and the basic argument.


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Corvus Ravensong Skyel Industries Subspace Exploration Agency 179	Posted - 2012.08.17 03:05:00 - [1] - Quote I made this tread after seeing my 36th whine post about Dust not being "Free to Play". To those of you who just can't be bothered to find out for yourselves, the term "free to play" means only 2 things........ 1. you didn't have to buy the base game 2. you don't have a subscription to play (subscription games are what people mean by "pay to play") Some things "Free to play" does not automaticly mean.... (actually these are more prevelant in the "free to play" business model than the "pay to play" model 1. All content free of charge. 2. All areas available to all levels of users. 3. All playstyles available to all users. You check any major "free to play" game, and there are microtransactions, you know stuff like "special" animals for your farm, weapons for your mobster, optional classes to play as, "leet" battle gear, all purchased with real money and spent on "free to play" games.
Corvus Ravensong Skyel Industries Subspace Exploration Agency 179	Posted - 2012.08.17 03:21:00 - [2] - Quote Veigar Mordekaiser wrote: CCP promised paid players would have no advantage or extra content over free players. Premium voice comms and BPO's are exactly that. And what exactly does that have to do with dust being "free to play" Not a damn thing. Take it to a different thread, thanks. Quote: Then free to play is a false advertisement. Really? so CCP charged you (and only you) for the client? Or have they suddenly started charging you (an only you) a fee to log in? Or are you CHOOSING to spend isk on one of the game's OPTIONAL features ? Must pay in order to log in = pay to play Free client, no server access fees = free to play Never did understand why the difference is so hard for people to understand........
Corvus Ravensong Skyel Industries Subspace Exploration Agency 179	Posted - 2012.08.17 03:41:00 - [3] - Quote Benjamin Hellios wrote: Corvus Ravensong wrote: Veigar Mordekaiser wrote: CCP promised paid players would have no advantage or extra content over free players. Premium voice comms and BPO's are exactly that. And what exactly does that have to do with dust being "free to play" Not a damn thing. Take it to a different thread, thanks. Quote: Then free to play is a false advertisement. Really? so CCP charged you (and only you) for the client? Or have they suddenly started charging you (an only you) a fee to log in? Or are you CHOOSING to spend isk on one of the game's OPTIONAL features ? Must pay in order to log in = pay to play Free client, no server access fees = free to play Never did understand why the difference is so hard for people to understand........ Actually you're the one who's not getting it. Free does not involve the usage of money, as in, without charge. As soon as you charge money for any part of a game or anything at all, no matter how small, the term 'free' no longer applies, even if the cost is completely voluntary and optional. It's not a matter of opinion, but clear cut defenition. Again, what did they force you to buy? NOTHING!! What they have done is drag some other extras in front of you and offer to sell you THE EXTRAS, you don't buy em, cool, your game still works just like it did before. You got THE GAME free, you want the DLC skins, and DLC items, well, for those you get to pay - but your game still works FOR FREE even if you don't buy them.......... I'd guess that when you go to a store's grand opening you go for the free hotdogs and then ***** about them trying sell you stuff....... J'Jor, for your amuse I postulate that: 1. every game that you call "pay to win" is also "free to play", it's a common issue with the business model. 2. "free to play" means exactly what it says, you (can) play for free. Check out DDO, LOTRO, DCUO, Maple Story, Free Realms, and WTF, why not, all the "whateverVille" games by zynga - all of which are "free to play" with optionall paid content. Just because they aren't giving away the table, doesn't mean the hotdogs weren't free......
Corvus Ravensong Skyel Industries Subspace Exploration Agency 179	Posted - 2012.08.17 04:26:00 - [4] - Quote J'Jor Da'Wg wrote: Corvus Ravensong wrote: Benjamin Hellios wrote: Corvus Ravensong wrote: Veigar Mordekaiser wrote: CCP promised paid players would have no advantage or extra content over free players. Premium voice comms and BPO's are exactly that. And what exactly does that have to do with dust being "free to play" Not a damn thing. Take it to a different thread, thanks. Then free to play is a false advertisement. Really? so CCP charged you (and only you) for the client? Or have they suddenly started charging you (an only you) a fee to log in? Or are you CHOOSING to spend isk on one of the game's OPTIONAL features ? Must pay in order to log in = pay to play Free client, no server access fees = free to play Never did understand why the difference is so hard for people to understand........ Actually you're the one who's not getting it. Free does not involve the usage of money, as in, without charge. As soon as you charge money for any part of a game or anything at all, no matter how small, the term 'free' no longer applies, even if the cost is completely voluntary and optional. It's not a matter of opinion, but clear cut defenition. Again, what did they force you to buy? NOTHING!! What they have done is drag some other extras in front of you and offer to sell you THE EXTRAS, you don't buy em, cool, your game still works just like it did before. You got THE GAME free, you want the DLC skins, and DLC items, well, for those you get to pay - but your game still works FOR FREE even if you don't buy them.......... I'd guess that when you go to a store's grand opening you go for the free hotdogs and then ***** about them trying sell you stuff....... J'Jor, for your amuse I postulate that: 1. every game that you call "pay to win" is also "free to play", it's a common issue with the business model. 2. "free to play" means exactly what it says, you (can) play for free. Chek out DDO, LOTRO, DCUO, Maple Story, Free Realms, and WTF, why not, all the "whateverVille" games by zynga - all of which are "free to play" with optionall paid content. Just because they aren't giving away the table, doesn't mean the hotdogs weren't free...... So there yourself you said it. Every game that is pay 2 win is free to play. So lets all just blindly ignore bad industry trends and buy into it. I'm not. Really, you are overthinking this. DUST 514 is free to download and play. However, if it has portions of access blocked off, only open to people who pay, are we able to "play" the game ENTIRELY for free? No. Thats my issue. I can be fine with paid sidegrades, as long as they don't represent a fundamentally "better choice". So other than on the extent of content you should recieve in a F2P game, I agree with you. But that extent of content is a wide gulf of disagreement, and the basic argument. Sorry dude, I didn't know that when the ENTIRE videogame industry says one thing and YOU say something else that YOU are right. Very well Mr. Webster, you may re-write the definition of the term "free to play" however you desire, since understanding it's current meaning is beyond you. Might I reccomend some further requirements for you? 1. The "free to play" game must not require a Television or other electronic device, since requiring someone to but those violates the principle of the game being "free". 2. In order to truely be "free" to play the game cannot require any time to be "spent" on it, as spending is something yu should never do on something free. 3. All employees working on a "free" to play game bust be fired and replaced with either slaves or volunteers, because if they are "paid" it's no longer "free". Post Script: I hope none of you are taking this amusement thread too seriously, my original post was needed by some - the rest has been simple amusement.
Corvus Ravensong Skyel Industries Subspace Exploration Agency 179	Posted - 2012.08.17 04:46:00 - [5] - Quote Myself I bought the Merc pack as a treat for myself for doing good on finals (OK, so the Merc Pack, and a bottle of nice Scotch, bet you can guess which lasted longer). I guess my Dragonfly scout suit and merc pack SMG are just too OP and I paid to win. (Actually due to their being bpo's I could buy that argument)
Corvus Ravensong Skyel Industries Subspace Exploration Agency 179	Posted - 2012.08.17 07:36:00 - [6] - Quote Quote: So far I haven't had too much issue with DUST being termed a Free To Play Game, because it is actually Free to sit down and play. However, Im not sure about it being or not being Pay To WIN yet Finally someone who gets it. If you are going to ***** about it being "pay to win" because someone COULD buy things with real cash, that's fine - jury is still out on that issue IMHO. Pay to Win and Free to Play are seperate issues - one involves OP RMT goods, the other involves how much the developer FORCES you to play the game (not to be good, just to play)