DUST Search - CoD and Dust: accuarcy and game

Avenger 245 wrote:

This is all about AR type guns and gun game. So before you freak read

After a few matchs on dust comming out with a reasonable kill ratio, I was invited to a match in CoD and noticed something between the two games the differince between the twos hipfire accuacy and down the sights aiming. Now I know this isnt CoD and is unique, but CoD gun game is well perfected and lessons and ideas from it shouldnt be ignored completely

In dust I can peg anyone at medium/longrange with the hipfire, I can kill people accuarctly while running with hipfire, to the point that the looking down sights on dust is pointless when compared to all the advantage of running around with hipfire. For example crouching and aiming down sights should give you.a major advantage with a smaller hitbox and better accuarcy however it doesnt its far better to run around or strafe your enemy with hipfire.

on CoD however you have to aim down the sights to accuarctly hit targets, and crouching and aiming is always going to stomp.some moron running around spraying and praying. After a few matchs of getting used to diffrent games agian I realized I was immidtetally bring up my sights when I saw some one and crouching if circumstance allowed and I was king of Cod agian amonst my friends

The biggest reason for this is how accuarct hipfire is vs scoped. And the fact the scope is so slow to turn when the other guy is strafing. But I cant discont the diffrence between 3shot kills and 15 shot kills.

I think that hipfire should be more inaccuarct than what it is now, hipfire while running should be near impossible that and when scopes should have more turn speed,

Another thing thay could be done is have both be fairly difficult to aim hipfire and scoped and have 2 or 3 skills for each that make them better(spiecilizing in hipfire vs sights) but running and firing from the hip should be alot more inaccuart than it is now.

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Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.07.30 22:03:00 - [1] - Quote This is all about AR type guns and gun game. So before you freak read After a few matchs on dust comming out with a reasonable kill ratio, I was invited to a match in CoD and noticed something between the two games the differince between the twos hipfire accuacy and down the sights aiming. Now I know this isnt CoD and is unique, but CoD gun game is well perfected and lessons and ideas from it shouldnt be ignored completely In dust I can peg anyone at medium/longrange with the hipfire, I can kill people accuarctly while running with hipfire, to the point that the looking down sights on dust is pointless when compared to all the advantage of running around with hipfire. For example crouching and aiming down sights should give you.a major advantage with a smaller hitbox and better accuarcy however it doesnt its far better to run around or strafe your enemy with hipfire. on CoD however you have to aim down the sights to accuarctly hit targets, and crouching and aiming is always going to stomp.some moron running around spraying and praying. After a few matchs of getting used to diffrent games agian I realized I was immidtetally bring up my sights when I saw some one and crouching if circumstance allowed and I was king of Cod agian amonst my friends The biggest reason for this is how accuarct hipfire is vs scoped. And the fact the scope is so slow to turn when the other guy is strafing. But I cant discont the diffrence between 3shot kills and 15 shot kills. I think that hipfire should be more inaccuarct than what it is now, hipfire while running should be near impossible that and when scopes should have more turn speed, Another thing thay could be done is have both be fairly difficult to aim hipfire and scoped and have 2 or 3 skills for each that make them better(spiecilizing in hipfire vs sights) but running and firing from the hip should be alot more inaccuart than it is now.
Lord Sedto Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 25	Posted - 2012.07.30 22:11:00 - [2] - Quote I agree I try o use the scope always and find some days I am in the zone and can easily at a medium distance spray chest and head shots, though as the enemy might get closer the AR is useless with the scope up and hip fire seems to be king. Of course I notice inconsistency too with my ability some times I cant get into the zone by aiming and just die alot. Sure I might be using lvl 4 dropsuits and not prototype but its not easy aiming down a scope and way to easy to just run around spraying from the hip. Something should be tweaked to make hip fire not as accurate.
Nos Faust BurgezzE.T.F Orion Empire 37	Posted - 2012.07.30 22:18:00 - [3] - Quote You do have a point. Almost every fps game out there requires you to aim down the sights to hit accurately at medium to long range while hip firing is only accurate up close, and even at short range is iffy without an attachment like a foregrip.
Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.07.30 22:51:00 - [4] - Quote Ah good someone who agrees I thought I was the only one who noticed this inbalance between hipfire and scope. However has I thought about it I think maybe having both hipfire and scoped be fairly hard to aim at for a newb but allow skills such as skills to imrpove movement wheb scoped, scopes movement speed, and bringing up the scopes quicker. But hipfire accuarcy should be lowered still, and maybe a few skills that imrpoves it but a complete newb should still struggle to use either method. And hipfire while running should be insanely inaccuarct regardless of skills. Because of newbs already being at a disadvantage with newbiness and weaker gear, have a ingame tutorial that could explain how skills work such and allow the player to choose between the two and get some free training in one of those two so they inderstand akill books/points and how to.do all that as well giving the an imporant skill
Br1ck Chib Air Red Alliance 1	Posted - 2012.07.30 23:05:00 - [5] - Quote Ahhhhhh. Its been bothering me that I've been flipping terrible mostly on dust I'm normally pretty decent at fps games and now that I think about it most of my kills are when I hipfire yet as I've played bf and cod alot I'm inclined to use the scope/sights most of the time This should be rectified but in the meantime its time to spray and pray
JONLUK167 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 18	Posted - 2012.07.31 01:32:00 - [6] - Quote Avenger 245 wrote: This is all about AR type guns and gun game. So before you freak read After a few matchs on dust comming out with a reasonable kill ratio, I was invited to a match in CoD and noticed something between the two games the differince between the twos hipfire accuacy and down the sights aiming. Now I know this isnt CoD and is unique, but CoD gun game is well perfected and lessons and ideas from it shouldnt be ignored completely In dust I can peg anyone at medium/longrange with the hipfire, I can kill people accuarctly while running with hipfire, to the point that the looking down sights on dust is pointless when compared to all the advantage of running around with hipfire. For example crouching and aiming down sights should give you.a major advantage with a smaller hitbox and better accuarcy however it doesnt its far better to run around or strafe your enemy with hipfire. on CoD however you have to aim down the sights to accuarctly hit targets, and crouching and aiming is always going to stomp.some moron running around spraying and praying. After a few matchs of getting used to diffrent games agian I realized I was immidtetally bring up my sights when I saw some one and crouching if circumstance allowed and I was king of Cod agian amonst my friends The biggest reason for this is how accuarct hipfire is vs scoped. And the fact the scope is so slow to turn when the other guy is strafing. But I cant discont the diffrence between 3shot kills and 15 shot kills. I think that hipfire should be more inaccuarct than what it is now, hipfire while running should be near impossible that and when scopes should have more turn speed, Another thing thay could be done is have both be fairly difficult to aim hipfire and scoped and have 2 or 3 skills for each that make them better(spiecilizing in hipfire vs sights) but running and firing from the hip should be alot more inaccuart than it is now.
ETEREX Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 27	Posted - 2012.07.31 01:39:00 - [7] - Quote I have the same problems / concerns. It is counterintuitive to use hip fire to score medium and long range hits. It would be nice if CCP gave us some definitive feedback on how they intend to adjust ARs.
KingBlade82 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 56	Posted - 2012.07.31 02:21:00 - [8] - Quote please just drop this lol i hate the scope XD and dont want to use it up close also crouching does help a lil with ur aiming (it is more accurate) i like that i dont have to scope for mediumish to short ranges at long range u need to scope or u wont hit anything
Denzin Hast Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 7	Posted - 2012.07.31 02:35:00 - [9] - Quote JONLUK167 wrote: [quote=Avenger 245] I think that hipfire should be more inaccuarct than what it is now, hipfire while running should be near impossible that and when scopes should have more turn speed, The thing about it is. This game isn't like cod or or battlefield. Having such high health you need to be able to run and gun or it just becomes a game about who has better armor. think about scouts. They have crappy armor but i still have trouble taking down some of them because they know how to move. I hate to relate this to other games but think of it more like halo or tf2. In those games i rarely ads and again thats because this isn't a game where it only takes 3 bullets to kill.
Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.07.31 02:43:00 - [10] - Quote Thats why I made the sugestion for skills to improve this, but still right now there is no advantge for crouching and aiming which ahould translate to smaller hit box and better accaurcy. Hipfire is to accuarct at medium range, aiming down the sights should always be more accuarct than hipfire but in this build that not true hipfire is hand down better. As for scouts maybe they can have increased movement speed while scoped. Also scouts could use submachine guns which are designed for hipfire. This thread is mostly about AR.

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3064	Posted - 2012.07.31 02:53:00 - [11] - Quote NO I love accurate hipfire, and aiming down sights should only be required for longer ranges. I don't want hipfire to be more "inaccuarct " as the OP said. Don't nerf hipfire, just give aiming down sights a larger accuracy boost. Forcing people to have to use aiming down sight to be accurate only makes sense in high damage/low health games like CoD or BF. This game is more like Section 8, where mobility is more important than who saw who first; people die instantly games like CoD so more about who sees who first and shoots first (since first few shots usually kill), so mobility isn't really as important. High health and low damage means seeing someone first and shooting first doesn't guarantee victory, so maneuvering is needed, hence why being able to effectively fire without aiming down sight is a must. I renounce, reject, and repudiate this request.
Denzin Hast Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 7	Posted - 2012.07.31 03:05:00 - [12] - Quote Yes but still ads makes your strafe speed slower and if that's how you have to aim if you wanna hit anything it still makes it about who has better armor because you have to tank more bullets. With Cod having to aim down sights quickly so you can be very accurate works because everyone has the same amount of health (practically none) so it becomes all about reaction time you don't have your target moving around as much. Ads is good for these games when your target is stationary. You also say there should be a skill to increase the hipffire accuracy, but do you really want another skill book that you have to use? remember were earning sp at many times the normal rate. I don't wan't to add more things when there is so much especially with dropsuits going into the 1mil 2mill range for lvl 4 and 5. Edit: didn't post fast enough. didn't see wolfs comment.
Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.07.31 03:14:00 - [13] - Quote I think hipfire is important for cqc and should take precident in cq however in one match a logi came arounda corner at about med range crouched and took aim, I took a few steps to the right and his aim couldnt keep up and but accuarct hipfire feom a breach AR into him. He saw me first, he took aim and got the first shots and took me complete by surprise I still toasted him with hifire with 7 or 8 shots from my breach. He should have had me but he didnt even at medium range, the hipfire is too accuarct as is and should be tended to and the sights are to slow not accuarct enough compared to hipfire.
Denzin Hast Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 7	Posted - 2012.07.31 03:25:00 - [14] - Quote well that was his problem. He crouched down so he couldn't move and you tore into him. He's in a logi suit so he has less armor and less mobility from crouching. You being mobile and having more armor of course you one.
Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.07.31 03:39:00 - [15] - Quote But the point is once I moved far enough to the right his sights were moving to slow to keep up and he couldnt readjust while I barely even put forth effort lining up hipfire and killed him, at about 15 mrters another time I killed a moving assualt with hipfire from around 30 meters so my point his hipfire to accaurct and sights are to slow.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.07.31 06:18:00 - [16] - Quote Long range, hipfire is too accurate with some weapons. If they reduce hipfire accuracy, I don't think they should do so by too significant an amount. But they should reduce it a little bit.
Templar Two Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 459	Posted - 2012.07.31 06:31:00 - [17] - Quote Hip fire is accurate because we have Active Aim Assist.
BAD FURRY Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 247	Posted - 2012.07.31 08:34:00 - [18] - Quote WELCOME TO DUST 514 I DONT NEED TO AIM AT YOU I CAN HIT YOU LIKE THIS !
Waruiko DUST G I A N T 90	Posted - 2012.07.31 08:59:00 - [19] - Quote Templar Two wrote: Hip fire is accurate because we have Active Aim Assist. Does your sig play into this? its the only area I can think of it having a serious effect right now. It would make sense to me that we mostly have DS skill at 1 and or lots of shield mods and have massive sig that helps people auto aim at us because we can't actually see what its doing.
Darkz azurr Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 105	Posted - 2012.07.31 09:08:00 - [20] - Quote i agree op, currently with the smg or ar as my main weapons i hardly ever scope in as the accuracy from hipfire and range, feels better, close range is where hipfire should be effective , not medium range. i already said that when you shoot while ads the gun seems to lock into place making it very hard to track moving targets, that the aiming speed while shooting should be the same as the aiming speed while ads and not shooting. hipfire range seems to hit a bit too far with too much accuracy .but yeah i agree whith all you said.

Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.07.31 12:15:00 - [21] - Quote Waruiko DUST wrote: Templar Two wrote: Hip fire is accurate because we have Active Aim Assist. Does your sig play into this? its the only area I can think of it having a serious effect right now. It would make sense to me that we mostly have DS skill at 1 and or lots of shield mods and have massive sig that helps people auto aim at us because we can't actually see what its doing. Low sig reduces the distance at which you get an arrow above your head. And that marker shows up for the entire enemy team, NOT just the person who can see you. It makes a big difference being able to get REALLY close to people without needing to worry about Dropship missile spam or blind sniper fire coming your way.
Lord Sedto Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 25	Posted - 2012.07.31 15:34:00 - [22] - Quote Hip fire should be only when on top or close quarter but right now it is designed so you can be medium range (ideal for AR) and still hit your target. Either do away with scopes or adjust it so hip fire is not as accurate or possibly take away the movement penalty for scoped fire? in fact I would rather no movement penalty on my scoped fire. But when I am medium distanced and using scoped fire should not be giving a disadvantage. In fact might not need to nerf the hip fire at all just fix the scoped firing so there is no movement penalty. Then those that do not care to use a scope on the AR don't have to and those of us that do want to use the scope for accuracy can.
Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.07.31 19:49:00 - [23] - Quote Well atleast I not alone in my opinion I think CoD has a far better combat system than halo(even of it was stupid with armor) and think it would be better to have ADS be superior over hipfire at medium range which is why I suggested it
Abner Kalen Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 100	Posted - 2012.07.31 20:46:00 - [24] - Quote Avenger 245 wrote: Well atleast I not alone in my opinion I think CoD has a far better combat system than halo(even of it was stupid with armor) and think it would be better to have ADS be superior over hipfire at medium range which is why I suggested it COD: MW2 has one of the best combat systems of any FPS I know. I haven't played MW3 or Halo Reach to compare. Hell, Fallout: New Vegas has better FPS gameplay than the current build of Dust514.... And I'm actively promoting Dust to my friends and want it to succeed, mind you
Ender Storm Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 50	Posted - 2012.07.31 20:58:00 - [25] - Quote Agreed, we should play more like soldiers and less like childs with water guns. Weapons are suposed to be aimed before taking a shot, and aiming down the sights should reflect that. I pretty much 80% of the times bring up my sights during combat, because thats the way to do it - and most of the times I see that its quite innefective. I took a shot at red orchestra 2 this late steam sale, Its fun to play and the game pace is quite fast. Bunny-hopping and crazy strafing is pretty much absent. Its nice to see a game where a player has to use his brains and use the terrain inteligently and play smart. Quite liking it. Dust may be a different game and i will probably play it no matter what, but I miss it being more to the side of realistic shooters that try to be "closer" to real warfare and less to the side of halo / unreal with juvenile/arcade gun play. Of course, it all may be blamed on the poor hit bozes the game have, so I hope the August update will get things right. A shooter isnt a shooter if your bullets do not register most of the times.
Beta Phish Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 28	Posted - 2012.07.31 22:07:00 - [26] - Quote Abner Kalen wrote: COD: MW2 has one of the best combat systems of any FPS I know. it actually had one of the worse. mw2 was one most horribly balanced fps games there was. before you start messing with the ARs, CCP needs to balance Dropsuits base movespeed better since that is the main reason why ADS'ing vs hipfire is not as good as ADS'ing should be. the other issue you point out on 3shot or 15 shot kills is due to total Shields & Shield regen on some Dropsuits builds. since the ACR in both mw2 and mw3 are the same, you can Hipfire from a distance and get the same shot detection you get here in dust.
testguy242 44	Posted - 2012.07.31 22:14:00 - [27] - Quote I haven't played CoD in a long time, but if what you say is true and CoD is more "realistic" and tactical than Dust, that is very worrying. I'd prefer for Dust to lean toward the "tactical shooter" side of things. Maybe the drops suits have computerized aiming assist or something (hey, module idea), but using the sights/scope should still be noticeably more accurate.
Dragon Grace Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 15	Posted - 2012.07.31 22:48:00 - [28] - Quote i agree with the original post. a really nicely put thing that i have had problem wording for ages lol i would however like to add one thing. increase the turn speed....but not the strafe speed. strafe and bunny hop warfare doesnt exist in a real war. and this is supposed to be a real war...just set in the future :P +1 from me OP
Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.08.01 02:08:00 - [29] - Quote Hipfire is to accuarct at medium range aiming should be better but its not, because of slow ADS turning speed and the diffrwnce between hipfire accaurcy and ads is unnoticable. Another thing is the diffrence between running hipfire accaurcy, standing hipfire accuarcy and crouching hipfire is almost the same the diffrence between what should be vastly diffrent stability isnt there. Running and hipfire should be outright impossible in a open invorment. I think hipfire should be alot less accaurct while running and a bit less accaurct while standing still and hipfiring. However ADS should be hands down better. A key thing about this is running and hipfire being pretty accaurct which it shouldnt.
Nos Faust BurgezzE.T.F Orion Empire 37	Posted - 2012.08.01 07:24:00 - [30] - Quote l'd like to see aim assist removed but that's just me.



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