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Trouble Man
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
13
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Posted - 2012.07.23 22:48:00 -
[1] - Quote
I for one have had enough of R.E's in this game. They are the most underhanded, dirtiest, and unfair weapon in this game! Don't get me wrong, but these explosives can be useful - used in a real tactic, not just thrown right at my feet, when I'm about to kill you, and then blowing me up. Someone tell me how is that gameplay? Instead of actually shooting it out to the death like a true FPS, what happens? Someone who isn't even trying to fight back suddenly gets a kill because of they're cheap tricks and dumb luck, compared to someone who's focusing on hitting them on target, getting the area clear of enemy's, and getting the area under team control. How many times have you spawned, trying to re-hack your territory, when your sent sky-high because of some coward that couldn't kill you face to face, but with some Remote Explosive, not even giving you a chance to fight back, but blowing you up on spot. Now I know that some people will argue against me saying that "they just outsmarted you" or "it's part of the game" but what's the point of a game when you have no chance? Is this what we want Dust to become? I don't!!!!!!
This is why that Remote Explosives should be removed from the game, or given a longer time to be placed and then blown up.
Please comment below on your thoughts on my idea |
The2 Holgg
BetaMax Beta
47
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Posted - 2012.07.23 22:51:00 -
[2] - Quote
They will be fixed in the next build. They will have 5 sec arming time and are limited to only 2. |
Benjamin Hellios
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
259
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Posted - 2012.07.23 22:52:00 -
[3] - Quote
They shouldn't be removed, they just need to put them in the grenade section of the market, just to keep it real. |
Belzeebub Santana
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
409
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Posted - 2012.07.23 23:18:00 -
[4] - Quote
This has been posted quite a few times, plz use the search option so we don't have more of the same threads. |
SILENTSAM 69
Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION
421
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Posted - 2012.07.23 23:21:00 -
[5] - Quote
I love seeing people cry like this. Help me farm those tears. |
Maken Tosch
263
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Posted - 2012.07.23 23:21:00 -
[6] - Quote
1. They are a legitimate tactic just like one would use an LAV to run over their opponents.
2. The only reason people are using them more often is because CCP nerfed the swarm launchers' splash damage that effect infantry. People naturally found the next weapon to abuse.
3. Abuse is unavoidable. CCP didn't think players would use a dropship as a falling anvil nor an LAV as a battering ram.
4. Even if remote explosives were removed, who is to say that the Dust mercs won't find something else to abuse? Remember, players will find new tactics to kill their enemy. Some of these new tactics will be deemed by some players as overpowering or whatever. CCP will more than likely NOT remove them considering how we learned to adapt to finding more things to abuse.
5. Your objective is to secure the outposts "at all costs" as the computerized-voice lady keeps telling you. There will be players who will think "out of the box" to achieve their goals. As a sniper scout, I planned outside of the box by literally running outside of the box (running through the RED ZONE) to access certain hills and areas that cannot be accessed any other way so that I can safely snipe without having to bother camping on the roof of a tower like a tower bandit. Using remote explosives in the way people use them now is just another idea they came up with to achieve their objectives.
6. People have already adapted to this abuse by simply not getting too close to their opponents or by checking the installations for any explosives before they hack.
7. Rumors are going around that remote explosives will have a 5-second delay before exploding in the next build in August along with limiting their capacity to 2 instead of 5. Although you can still restock if you use the supply depots... assuming those haven't been destroyed already (nano hives won't work for these). You should be happy for that. But then again, that is just a rumor. Don't quote me on that.
8. If they can do it, you can do it too. Use their tactic against them. I using them a lot before until I was on the receiving end of these things. Then I moved on to just sticking with a group as a logistics while keeping away from the enemy. Other times, I'm a scout and therefore I am safe from remote explosives as long as I keep hidden and maintain distance.
9. It is only natural that a weapon or a tool is used in a way that is outside of its operational design. It's like using a cannon to kill a fly. A cannon is not intended for that purpose at all but it is an available option that people can choose to use. |
Belzeebub Santana
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
409
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Posted - 2012.07.23 23:32:00 -
[7] - Quote
You DON'T use your cannon for killing flies? |
Pezz IsDank
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION
171
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Posted - 2012.07.23 23:37:00 -
[8] - Quote
1. I hear they are going to be fixing RE's, so that people can't detonate them instantly after throwing them down. So no need to worry about having people run around and use them as primary weapons anymore, I for one am relieved.
2. They should stay in the game, this type of weapon makes games tons of fun. Most of the fun I have in games that have C4 is thinking of ways to take out the enemy with them and setting up traps, it's good fun. Also if you keep getting blown up when you start hacking an objective try looking around the objective on the ground, RE's are pretty easy to spot. |
RolyatDerTeufel
D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION
1648
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Posted - 2012.07.23 23:38:00 -
[9] - Quote
Belzeebub Santana wrote:You DON'T use your cannon for killing flies?
no i use RE.....
it's very effective ( yes now we are all pokemon ) |
Shadoe Wolf
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
80
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Posted - 2012.07.23 23:42:00 -
[10] - Quote
Also, once friendly fire comes into play, if it does, they can't drop it at their feet to kill the enemy in their face and not suffer the consequences. If friendlies are near as well, they will kill them and start getting hated because of the RE spam. On top of that, in most friendly fire games i've played, explosives hurt the player throwing them as well, so they would be committing suicide to get the kill. So there are many reasons to wait things out to see how CCP will handle this situation. I just hope they make the RE's sticky so we can attach them to tanks. The 5 second arm would give them way too much time to escape safely from the ones that are thrown to the ground. |
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Sabastian Malone
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
6
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Posted - 2012.07.24 00:22:00 -
[11] - Quote
I think they should be removed purely because they arent fun. Not fun to kill with and not fun to be killed by, so whats the point of them being there? |
Spacemarine Killer
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.07.24 00:23:00 -
[12] - Quote
I agree with Shadoe Wolf. Just adding friendly fire should be enough to discourage people from dropping it at their feet and detonating. To me a five second arming time seems a bit too much. I would like to use the RE to take out tanks that are not paying attention, like in the Battlefield games. I am not sure if people will agree with me, but I have seen no one complain about the REs effect against vehicles. |
Shadoe Wolf
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
80
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Posted - 2012.07.24 00:27:00 -
[13] - Quote
it's fun to sneak up on an unsuspecting tank driver, plant a few, step back to a safe place and watch the fireworks! if you've got the comm bug, it's also nice to hear the tank driver get upset that his nice tank went up in smoke. |
Ancaris Tenarre
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
15
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Posted - 2012.07.24 00:42:00 -
[14] - Quote
Meh, I kinda hated REs at first(and still do to some extent), but like others have said you just need to keep your distance and be watchful.
What I will say is, I think rather than adding the delay or reducing damage or whatever, they should just have a HUGE blast radius so that someone can't casually chuck one at you point blank and set it off without killing themselves as well; as an added bonus, it would add some much needed realism to the "if you're ten feet away you're okay" nature of explosives in videogames.
EDIT: Okay I just realized how stupid that sounded. I stand by the huge blast radius, mostly for realism reasons(and also because who doesn't love a big explosion?) but a(short) delay should probably be implemented as well; setting up explosives on objectives is fair game, spawn camping is going to be fixed, but I can still envision scenarios where somebody does a kamikaze attack to clear a defense line or when they're surrounded and have nothing to lose, which admittedly sounds pretty cool but also has to be balanced somewhat. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 01:20:00 -
[15] - Quote
Ancaris Tenarre wrote:Meh, I kinda hated REs at first(and still do to some extent), but like others have said you just need to keep your distance and be watchful. Which would be fine if that didn't mean they're a hard counter to most SMGs and Shotguns, which, unlike REs, are MEANT to be CQC weapons.
Also, while I LIKE that they're being nerfed, I think 5 seconds is WAY too long, and 2 would be better. MAYBE 3.
I don't use REs, but that seems like plenty to solve the actual problems with them. |
Derek Barnes
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
340
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 02:31:00 -
[16] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:7. Rumors are going around that remote explosives will have a 5-second delay before exploding in the next build in August along with limiting their capacity to 2 instead of 5. Although you can still restock if you use the supply depots... assuming those haven't been destroyed already (nano hives won't work for these). You should be happy for that. But then again, that is just a rumor. Don't quote me on that.
It's not a rumor, CCP has already said this on the Forums themselves |
Angely Unomahar
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2012.07.24 02:40:00 -
[17] - Quote
loool !! this game... i mean the forum, make me laugh every time i come !!
one time HAV are overpowered, 2nd time they are underpowered...
now it's the RE who makes problem ! next time... "the sky make me pissed off"
seriously, it's a weapon who already existe, it's not unfair to used it ! when you run for take an objective, look at the floor, and shot the RE !
but, sometime, in ambush, some player put RE in the middle of nowhere... don't know why, but it work (3 times get kill by RE like that ! ), is that enought for bannish RE of the game ? i don't think so ! |
The dark cloud
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
1060
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Posted - 2012.07.24 03:03:00 -
[18] - Quote
i Wonder if it is possible to put remote explosives on a LAV and go kamikaze with it. Imagine a full squad 5X6=30 remote explosives on 1 Militia LAV going full tilit stright into a sagaris. I bet that should be enough to put a tank like that down instantly. Just think of it when friendly fire was on. LAV crashes in sagaris, and causes a chain reaction to all the strapped explosives on the vehicle in a big inferno of tears and ISK. Seriously the devs need to make it so that these things stick on vehicles (not players). When it works in battlefield 3 why not on Dust? |
Belzeebub Santana
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
409
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 03:27:00 -
[19] - Quote
The dark cloud wrote:i Wonder if it is possible to put remote explosives on a LAV and go kamikaze with it. Imagine a full squad 5X6=30 remote explosives on 1 Militia LAV going full tilit stright into a sagaris. I bet that should be enough to put a tank like that down instantly. Just think of it when friendly fire was on. LAV crashes in sagaris, and causes a chain reaction to all the strapped explosives on the vehicle in a big inferno of tears and ISK. Seriously the devs need to make it so that these things stick on vehicles (not players). When it works in battlefield 3 why not on Dust?
Nope tried it first week of this build, havent tried standing on hood and placeing them there. |
EriktheHeartless
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
168
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Posted - 2012.07.24 17:09:00 -
[20] - Quote
sounds like somebody got blow'd up real good. |
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hosche96
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
8
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Posted - 2012.07.25 03:11:00 -
[21] - Quote
Solution? Don't let the enemy get near you. If you see a guy charging you with a RE, shoot him.
You say you have no chance? What it's not like only certain people can use them. There's no excuse for having "no chance". Adapt. Throw a remote explosive back at the guy instead of complaining about how other people play the game. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.07.25 03:50:00 -
[22] - Quote
The dark cloud wrote:i Wonder if it is possible to put remote explosives on a LAV and go kamikaze with it. Imagine a full squad 5X6=30 remote explosives on 1 Militia LAV going full tilit stright into a sagaris. I bet that should be enough to put a tank like that down instantly. Just think of it when friendly fire was on. LAV crashes in sagaris, and causes a chain reaction to all the strapped explosives on the vehicle in a big inferno of tears and ISK. Seriously the devs need to make it so that these things stick on vehicles (not players). When it works in battlefield 3 why not on Dust? This is also a good strategy in Red Faction: Guerrilla.
Load explosives all over vehicle. Drive through wall. Detonate. Goodbye building. Good times. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.07.25 03:54:00 -
[23] - Quote
hosche96 wrote:Solution? Don't let the enemy get near you. If you see a guy charging you with a RE, shoot him. You say you have no chance? What it's not like only certain people can use them. There's no excuse for having "no chance". Adapt. Throw a remote explosive back at the guy instead of complaining about how other people play the game. When weapons like SMGs and Shotguns have a hard-counter at their preferred range, then I'm sorry, but it's time the developers adapt the game to make weapons actually viable for their intended purpose. Telling players to adapt to a stupid overlooked mechanic (which is going to be fixed next build - although I still think the planned nerf is taking it TOO far) is stupid. IT'S A BETA. We're MEANT to be finding the broken, overpowered, exploitative uses of things AND REPORTING THEM. |
Maken Tosch
263
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Posted - 2012.07.25 06:39:00 -
[24] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:hosche96 wrote:Solution? Don't let the enemy get near you. If you see a guy charging you with a RE, shoot him. You say you have no chance? What it's not like only certain people can use them. There's no excuse for having "no chance". Adapt. Throw a remote explosive back at the guy instead of complaining about how other people play the game. When weapons like SMGs and Shotguns have a hard-counter at their preferred range, then I'm sorry, but it's time the developers adapt the game to make weapons actually viable for their intended purpose. Telling players to adapt to a stupid overlooked mechanic (which is going to be fixed next build - although I still think the planned nerf is taking it TOO far) is stupid. IT'S A BETA. We're MEANT to be finding the broken, overpowered, exploitative uses of things AND REPORTING THEM.
Have you ever played Eve Online? You know, the game that is maintained and constantly updated by the same company that is making Dust?
CCP introduced tier-3 battlecruisers capable of wielding battleship-sized guns (glass cannons) meant to be used in fleet battles.
No more than one day after they were introduced into the market, people are already using them to destroy innocent mining ships in high-security space that no chance of defending themselves from the alpha damage they bring. Freighters are helpless even as well even to this day. No one expected these ships to be used in such a fashion. Did CCP do anything about it? No. They just pulled up a chair and had popcorn. Ask CCP. You'd be surprised. Go ahead. Ask them about how they let innocent freighters loaded with tens of thousands of dollars worth of in-game items simply burn to ashes before our very eyes while they sat down and laughed. I laughed as well at the dumb pilots flying those expensive freighters who seemed to have disregarded every warning about it that came three months ahead of time.
Now. Imagine a company with that mentality making and running Dust. I can see it all now.
The nerf to the swarm launchers I can understand (they nerfed it from the pre-E3 build). It's been noted that the remote explosives will have a 5-second delay added to them in the next build which I can also understand.
But to limit weapons just so that they can used in only one way is NOT what I ever want to see. If I want to use a sniper rifle like an assault rifle rifle, would you then want CCP to limit the sniper rifle's use as well since I can kill mercs with it in one or two shots? If I want run up to you in a super-fast, catalyizer-fitted, scout suit with just a skilled up Nova Knife and slash you after I manage to dodge all your bullets from your sub-machine gun, would you think about wanting CCP to limit its use to only as a backup weapon in case I run out of bullets?
It's called thinking out of the box and using a tool outside its operational design. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.07.25 07:08:00 -
[25] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Have you ever played Eve Online? You know, the game that is maintained and constantly updated by the same company that is making Dust?
CCP introduced tier-3 battlecruisers capable of wielding battleship-sized guns (glass cannons) meant to be used in fleet battles.
No more than one day after they were introduced into the market, people are already using them to destroy innocent mining ships in high-security space that no chance of defending themselves from the alpha damage they bring. Freighters are helpless even as well even to this day. No one expected these ships to be used in such a fashion. Did CCP do anything about it? No. They just pulled up a chair and had popcorn. Ask CCP. You'd be surprised. Go ahead. Ask them about how they let innocent freighters loaded with tens of thousands of dollars worth of in-game items simply burn to ashes before our very eyes while they sat down and laughed. I laughed as well at the dumb pilots flying those expensive freighters who seemed to have disregarded every warning about it that came three months ahead of time.
Now. Imagine a company with that mentality making and running Dust. I can see it all now.
The nerf to the swarm launchers I can understand (they nerfed it from the pre-E3 build). It's been noted that the remote explosives will have a 5-second delay added to them in the next build which I can also understand.
But to limit weapons just so that they can used in only one way is NOT what I ever want to see. If I want to use a sniper rifle like an assault rifle rifle, would you then want CCP to limit the sniper rifle's use as well since I can kill mercs with it in one or two shots? If I want run up to you in a super-fast, catalyizer-fitted, scout suit with just a skilled up Nova Knife and slash you after I manage to dodge all your bullets from your sub-machine gun, would you think about wanting CCP to limit its use to only as a backup weapon in case I run out of bullets?
It's called thinking out of the box and using a tool outside its operational design. There's a HUGE difference between using anti-capital weapons against smaller ships, and using remote explosives as a shotgun substitute.
The fact that you support the changes to REs proves that you already understand that, so I'm not sure why you even bothered to bring that comparison up.
I'm not saying to LIMIT the weapons further than CCP already intend. I'm just pointing out that the "just stay away and shoot them" argument doesn't hold WITH THE CURRENT BUILD.
I honestly don't think the currently planned nerf is quite right though - I think it's an over-nerf. |
Garma QUDA
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
468
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Posted - 2012.07.25 07:17:00 -
[26] - Quote
I want a bomb suit so I can just pretend Im a grenade... since Im immortal and whatnot :< |
Runofthemilljay
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
53
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Posted - 2012.07.25 11:00:00 -
[27] - Quote
as for the dropship killing, we had a similar prob in bf3 with people using the mav 2 kill. it was nerfed by the person getting no points for the kill anymore and their mav self destructs after the attempt. Maybe something like that would work 2 deter people from dropship killing. |
ICECREAMK1NG WARRIORS
99
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Posted - 2012.07.25 12:34:00 -
[28] - Quote
EVERYBODY can do it ! They do it to me, I do it to them. I've lost count how many times someone is losing a gun fight with me, then bang... and vice versa No one person has an advantage so go cry elsewhere. |
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GM Grave
Doomheim
274
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Posted - 2012.07.25 12:48:00 -
[29] - Quote
I love remote explosives, cheap scout suit, add extenders, run around the map going KA BOOOOM!
That said, please bear in mind that we are balancing items based on player behaviours and forum discussions, but removing items from the game seems a tad extreme wouldn't you say? |
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VigSniper101
204
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Posted - 2012.07.25 12:55:00 -
[30] - Quote
GM Grave wrote:I love remote explosives, cheap scout suit, add extenders, run around the map going KA BOOOOM!
That said, please bear in mind that we are balancing items based on player behaviours and forum discussions, but removing items from the game seems a tad extreme wouldn't you say?
Yes, yes l would.
Id also say that since the game is set..a couple of years in the future...that there is no reason why remote explosives cannot be thrown and detonated....when in doubt., get Mythbusters60000 to test them.
If Dropships can park on towers and launch volleys of doom....with unlimited ammo If Tanks can be called and played on roofs and launch volleys of doom....with unlimited ammo
Then damnit...l can throw a block of doom a few feet!...at least a few times till the supply runs out, you get put down by a smart solider before the earth-shattering kaboom!
[20zillion ISK to whoever can pick out a certain old alien reference] |
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