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Just how much of a Sandbox do we want?

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Abron Garr Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 256	Posted - 2012.07.18 04:03:00 - [1] - Quote For me, I want as much choice and consequence as I can get. In a sea of mediocre rail and theme park games, it's refreshing to have a few games that offer choice, and more importantly, lasting consequences. I always seem to keep coming back to Eve because of those two things. A discussion in another thread reminded me of something I've been thinking about for a few weeks, In Eve, there aren't any rules addressing how many people you can bring to a fight. Alliance brawls can have 1000+ people on one side, even if the other side only brought 50. If you want to hotdrop 5000 capitals on one PvE Drake just for the lulz, that's your prerogative. Now (AFAIK) Dust isn't going to launch with the capability to field 1000 Marauders on one side, yet. But there will be some instances where certain corps can afford to field as much as they want while other corps may be shopping the clearance isle for mercs. So far in Beta, all the matches have been pretty even with only a one or two player difference. My question is if one side can only field a handful of Dust players, will the game still respect the sandbox and allow that battle to play out? I for one certainly hope so and expect nothing less from CCP. But I am curious what others, specifically non-Eve players think. How much of the Sandbox do you want and is there a limit (nothing wrong with limits) for some people?
Kira Lannister Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 711	Posted - 2012.07.18 04:05:00 - [2] - Quote Big enough for three cats.
Abron Garr Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 256	Posted - 2012.07.18 04:08:00 - [3] - Quote Kira Lannister wrote: Big enough for three cats. well played
Ventis Gant Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 37	Posted - 2012.07.18 04:26:00 - [4] - Quote CCP has stated (in a devblog, I believe, although it could be in a video from E3) that corp battles, ie, battles with persistence of consequences beyond the individual gain/loss of isk and SP, will not be numbers or equipment balanced. Essentially, it will be however many players CCP can safely fit into a battle and still leave the game in a playable state, and each team can bring up to half that number. Assume that CCP figures out how to get a total of 150 players in a battle. Each team can bring up to 75, but if the other team only brings 30, you can still bring 75. Also, once we can place installations on the battlefield ourselves, either team can fill all or none of the slots that are allotted to their side (I will assume that there will be X places that the attackers can drop stuff and X places the defenders can drop stuff). CCP didn't go into this much detail about this, but it is the logical conclusion from the statement that null sec battles will not be numbers balanced.
Maken Tosch 263	Posted - 2012.07.18 04:26:00 - [5] - Quote I am for "meaningful" choices and "permanent" consequences that not only affect me but also the people around me for a long time. I also want to be able to make a name for myself just like in Eve Online. I hate theme-park-style games at this point.
Armatsu Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 33	Posted - 2012.07.18 05:02:00 - [6] - Quote As a thought since fielding troops will be an issue for CCP (meaning a max number of players on a battlefield at a time) what are peoples thoughts on corps going after clones? For instance say for instance we have the same numbers for ambush (24 total and 12 a side). 12 people should be relatively easy to field even for smaller corps. In the true essence of EVE where money is power, why not translate funds into clones? Example: Both sides are even and field 12 players. This now comes down to which 12 players are better at the game. That sounds good for DUST but that isn't going to fly in EVE if this battle is for an important planet. Instead, after fielding 12 players, allow the corps to purchase clones. Now it comes down to a battle of attrition and the more powerful corporation winning. What you would see now are large corps being able to muscle the battle by supplying 100+ clones compared to the medium sized ones maybe only getting enough resources for 50. This would be a similar scenario to a low sec battle where one corp brings 100+ ships and the other corp only mustering up 50.
Crimson MoonV Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 658	Posted - 2012.07.18 05:18:00 - [7] - Quote Armatsu wrote: As a thought since fielding troops will be an issue for CCP (meaning a max number of players on a battlefield at a time) what are peoples thoughts on corps going after clones? For instance say for instance we have the same numbers for ambush (24 total and 12 a side). 12 people should be relatively easy to field even for smaller corps. In the true essence of EVE where money is power, why not translate funds into clones? Example: Both sides are even and field 12 players. This now comes down to which 12 players are better at the game. That sounds good for DUST but that isn't going to fly in EVE if this battle is for an important planet. Instead, after fielding 12 players, allow the corps to purchase clones. Now it comes down to a battle of attrition and the more powerful corporation winning. What you would see now are large corps being able to muscle the battle by supplying 100+ clones compared to the medium sized ones maybe only getting enough resources for 50. This would be a similar scenario to a low sec battle where one corp brings 100+ ships and the other corp only mustering up 50. Money should not win battles and you should not be able to pay to win in a corp battle. Terrible idea.
Armatsu Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 33	Posted - 2012.07.18 05:27:00 - [8] - Quote Crimson MoonV wrote: Armatsu wrote: As a thought since fielding troops will be an issue for CCP (meaning a max number of players on a battlefield at a time) what are peoples thoughts on corps going after clones? For instance say for instance we have the same numbers for ambush (24 total and 12 a side). 12 people should be relatively easy to field even for smaller corps. In the true essence of EVE where money is power, why not translate funds into clones? Example: Both sides are even and field 12 players. This now comes down to which 12 players are better at the game. That sounds good for DUST but that isn't going to fly in EVE if this battle is for an important planet. Instead, after fielding 12 players, allow the corps to purchase clones. Now it comes down to a battle of attrition and the more powerful corporation winning. What you would see now are large corps being able to muscle the battle by supplying 100+ clones compared to the medium sized ones maybe only getting enough resources for 50. This would be a similar scenario to a low sec battle where one corp brings 100+ ships and the other corp only mustering up 50. Money should not win battles and you should not be able to pay to win in a corp battle. Terrible idea. If this is like EVE online then money does win battles and you do pay to win corp battles. It isn't as blatantly obvious but in EVE a corp with a lot of money will fly out in expensive decked out ships specialized for PvP compared to a less wealthy corp where most of the members would be lucky to be flying a well fitted ratting rig. My example would be for Null sec only, it wouldn't affect low or high sec space at all.
Crimson MoonV Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 658	Posted - 2012.07.18 05:32:00 - [9] - Quote Armatsu wrote: Crimson MoonV wrote: Armatsu wrote: As a thought since fielding troops will be an issue for CCP (meaning a max number of players on a battlefield at a time) what are peoples thoughts on corps going after clones? For instance say for instance we have the same numbers for ambush (24 total and 12 a side). 12 people should be relatively easy to field even for smaller corps. In the true essence of EVE where money is power, why not translate funds into clones? Example: Both sides are even and field 12 players. This now comes down to which 12 players are better at the game. That sounds good for DUST but that isn't going to fly in EVE if this battle is for an important planet. Instead, after fielding 12 players, allow the corps to purchase clones. Now it comes down to a battle of attrition and the more powerful corporation winning. What you would see now are large corps being able to muscle the battle by supplying 100+ clones compared to the medium sized ones maybe only getting enough resources for 50. This would be a similar scenario to a low sec battle where one corp brings 100+ ships and the other corp only mustering up 50. Money should not win battles and you should not be able to pay to win in a corp battle. Terrible idea. If this is like EVE online then money does win battles and you do pay to win corp battles. It isn't as blatantly obvious but in EVE a corp with a lot of money will fly out in expensive decked out ships specialized for PvP compared to a less wealthy corp where most of the members would be lucky to be flying a well fitted ratting rig. My example would be for Null sec only, it wouldn't affect low or high sec space at all. This isn't eve online though. This is dust and ccp already said this game will not be pay to win. An elite corp battle will be full of the best gear. Sure the corp with best loadouts, teamwork, and skill will win. Money will only win corp battles if the other corp is full of scrubs with militia gear while the other team have all proto gear. Elite corp battle will be on a somewhat level field. Which is how it should be.
Arcushek Dion Doomheim 73	Posted - 2012.07.18 05:48:00 - [10] - Quote Crimson MoonV wrote: Armatsu wrote: Crimson MoonV wrote: Armatsu wrote: As a thought since fielding troops will be an issue for CCP (meaning a max number of players on a battlefield at a time) what are peoples thoughts on corps going after clones? For instance say for instance we have the same numbers for ambush (24 total and 12 a side). 12 people should be relatively easy to field even for smaller corps. In the true essence of EVE where money is power, why not translate funds into clones? Example: Both sides are even and field 12 players. This now comes down to which 12 players are better at the game. That sounds good for DUST but that isn't going to fly in EVE if this battle is for an important planet. Instead, after fielding 12 players, allow the corps to purchase clones. Now it comes down to a battle of attrition and the more powerful corporation winning. What you would see now are large corps being able to muscle the battle by supplying 100+ clones compared to the medium sized ones maybe only getting enough resources for 50. This would be a similar scenario to a low sec battle where one corp brings 100+ ships and the other corp only mustering up 50. Money should not win battles and you should not be able to pay to win in a corp battle. Terrible idea. If this is like EVE online then money does win battles and you do pay to win corp battles. It isn't as blatantly obvious but in EVE a corp with a lot of money will fly out in expensive decked out ships specialized for PvP compared to a less wealthy corp where most of the members would be lucky to be flying a well fitted ratting rig. My example would be for Null sec only, it wouldn't affect low or high sec space at all. This isn't eve online though. This is dust and ccp already said this game will not be pay to win. An elite corp battle will be full of the best gear. Sure the corp with best loadouts, teamwork, and skill will win. Money will only win corp battles if the other corp is full of scrubs with militia gear while the other team have all proto gear. Elite corp battle will be on a somewhat level field. Which is how it should be. You clearly don't understand how the higher end gameplay will work then. CCP have already stated that it may be possible to restock clones in just such a situation as long as there is a ship up in space to actually deliver them, so it will come down to attrition in that case. this is where the MMO aspect comes in. If you don't want to deal with that possibility then you'll be stuck in the kiddie pool that is hi-sec. And as for the "This is not EVE" that people keep spouting, yes it is. it's a different gametype but it occupies the same universe. If you can't accept that simple fact then you will not survive long in this game.

King Snuggler Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 9	Posted - 2012.07.18 05:59:00 - [11] - Quote Abron Garr wrote: For me, I want as much choice and consequence as I can get. In a sea of mediocre rail and theme park games, it's refreshing to have a few games that offer choice, and more importantly, lasting consequences. I always seem to keep coming back to Eve because of those two things. A discussion in another thread reminded me of something I've been thinking about for a few weeks, In Eve, there aren't any rules addressing how many people you can bring to a fight. Alliance brawls can have 1000+ people on one side, even if the other side only brought 50. If you want to hotdrop 5000 capitals on one PvE Drake just for the lulz, that's your prerogative. Now (AFAIK) Dust isn't going to launch with the capability to field 1000 Marauders on one side, yet. But there will be some instances where certain corps can afford to field as much as they want while other corps may be shopping the clearance isle for mercs. So far in Beta, all the matches have been pretty even with only a one or two player difference. My question is if one side can only field a handful of Dust players, will the game still respect the sandbox and allow that battle to play out? I for one certainly hope so and expect nothing less from CCP. But I am curious what others, specifically non-Eve players think. How much of the Sandbox do you want and is there a limit (nothing wrong with limits) for some people? Myself I would like to see CCP keep the integrity of the sandbox alive in DUST, of course there will be some people that will QQ about things being unfair when the only FPS experience they have is the noobtastic COD games, that group will complain about anything if it doesn't favor them, I want to see tactics, strategy involved , dirty tactics, unorthodox methods of winning the match without cheating of course, in a sandbox the sky's the limit and the possibilites are endless if a small minority of players can't handle the freedom this game gives well it's their own narrow minded fault.
Crimson MoonV Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 658	Posted - 2012.07.18 06:05:00 - [12] - Quote Arcushek Dion wrote: Crimson MoonV wrote: Armatsu wrote: Crimson MoonV wrote: Armatsu wrote: As a thought since fielding troops will be an issue for CCP (meaning a max number of players on a battlefield at a time) what are peoples thoughts on corps going after clones? For instance say for instance we have the same numbers for ambush (24 total and 12 a side). 12 people should be relatively easy to field even for smaller corps. In the true essence of EVE where money is power, why not translate funds into clones? Example: Both sides are even and field 12 players. This now comes down to which 12 players are better at the game. That sounds good for DUST but that isn't going to fly in EVE if this battle is for an important planet. Instead, after fielding 12 players, allow the corps to purchase clones. Now it comes down to a battle of attrition and the more powerful corporation winning. What you would see now are large corps being able to muscle the battle by supplying 100+ clones compared to the medium sized ones maybe only getting enough resources for 50. This would be a similar scenario to a low sec battle where one corp brings 100+ ships and the other corp only mustering up 50. Money should not win battles and you should not be able to pay to win in a corp battle. Terrible idea. If this is like EVE online then money does win battles and you do pay to win corp battles. It isn't as blatantly obvious but in EVE a corp with a lot of money will fly out in expensive decked out ships specialized for PvP compared to a less wealthy corp where most of the members would be lucky to be flying a well fitted ratting rig. My example would be for Null sec only, it wouldn't affect low or high sec space at all. This isn't eve online though. This is dust and ccp already said this game will not be pay to win. An elite corp battle will be full of the best gear. Sure the corp with best loadouts, teamwork, and skill will win. Money will only win corp battles if the other corp is full of scrubs with militia gear while the other team have all proto gear. Elite corp battle will be on a somewhat level field. Which is how it should be. You clearly don't understand how the higher end gameplay will work then. CCP have already stated that it may be possible to restock clones in just such a situation as long as there is a ship up in space to actually deliver them, so it will come down to attrition in that case. this is where the MMO aspect comes in. If you don't want to deal with that possibility then you'll be stuck in the kiddie pool that is hi-sec. And as for the "This is not EVE" that people keep spouting, yes it is. it's a different gametype but it occupies the same universe. If you can't accept that simple fact then you will not survive long in this game. This is not eve. Sorry this game is called dust 514. Eve online is pc game. You are obviously confused. High end corp battles will be about skill not money. ccp already stated that this game will not be pay to win. Just because you can deliver more clones does not mean that will help you win a competitive objective based game mode. Who ever holds the objectives will win and if you have to call in more clones then you more then likely already lost.
Ten-Sidhe Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 414	Posted - 2012.07.18 06:06:00 - [13] - Quote Not pay to win in real money, they haven't said having more isk won't effect the outcome. Skill will still be a huge factor. Unskilled players in prototype gear can be killed by good players with militia. So, the amount more money can sway a battle against good players in proto will be limited. After rich side outspending on losses for weeks, the skilled underfunded side may start having to use cheaper gear. This won't be a large factor since dust gear is so much cheaper then eve gear, my expendable low sec frigates ran 20mil. I was poor in eve terms, and I still wouldn't give a 20mil frigate loss any more thought then losing a standard scout suit in dust. Poor corps may be attacked on several fronts and only afford to defend some of them, the battles at the funded ones may not show isk difference, but the battles that are forfeited will. We won't know till sometime after release, players will manipulate system in hard to predict ways. So even the devs won't know 100% what players will do with the rules they make. If it goes to far to isk overrides all, they adjust it in next expansion.
Crimson MoonV Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 658	Posted - 2012.07.18 06:13:00 - [14] - Quote Ten-Sidhe wrote: Not pay to win in real money, they haven't said having more isk won't effect the outcome. Skill will still be a huge factor. Unskilled players in prototype gear can be killed by good players with militia. So, the amount more money can sway a battle against good players in proto will be limited. After rich side outspending on losses for weeks, the skilled underfunded side may start having to use cheaper gear. This won't be a large factor since dust gear is so much cheaper then eve gear, my expendable low sec frigates ran 20mil. I was poor in eve terms, and I still wouldn't give a 20mil frigate loss any more thought then losing a standard scout suit in dust. Poor corps may be attacked on several fronts and only afford to defend some of them, the battles at the funded ones may not show isk difference, but the battles that are forfeited will. We won't know till sometime after release, players will manipulate system in hard to predict ways. So even the devs won't know 100% what players will do with the rules they make. If it goes to far to isk overrides all, they adjust it in next expansion. I feel like you missed the point. High end competitive corp battles will be fairly balanced because everyone will have proto gear and proto weapons and thats how it should be. Who cares what the scrub corps do. I am positive that ccp will not make corp battle into "who ever has the most isk win." Simply because that idea is stupid and ccp is not stupid.
John Surratt Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 49	Posted - 2012.07.18 06:23:00 - [15] - Quote Crimson MoonV wrote: High end corp battles will be about skill not money. ccp already stated that this game will not be pay to win. Just because you can deliver more clones does not mean that will help you win a competitive objective based game mode. Who ever holds the objectives will win and if you have to call in more clones then you more then likely already lost. Perhaps you missed this on the DUST514 website. What's that above the DUST logo on the left hand side? Sorry, but DUST is just a different client and gamespace to the EVE universe, like it or not. It's an expansion to the New Eden experience. DUST corps are EVE corps, mail and chat is (going to be) shared, economies will be merged. . . hmm, yeah, different game altogether. FFS, get over it already. Also: ISK is not money. It's 1's and 0's in a database. ISK doesn't emerge from some mystical portal in EVE, someone has to earn or amass it. Yes, you should be able to use ISK that you have earned, amassed, or been provided to help win a fight, if only to havea bigger warchest that has more toys to play with after they get broken. Real world works that way so why not New Eden?
Crimson MoonV Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 658	Posted - 2012.07.18 06:30:00 - [16] - Quote John Surratt wrote: Crimson MoonV wrote: High end corp battles will be about skill not money. ccp already stated that this game will not be pay to win. Just because you can deliver more clones does not mean that will help you win a competitive objective based game mode. Who ever holds the objectives will win and if you have to call in more clones then you more then likely already lost. Perhaps you missed this on the DUST514 website. What's that above the DUST logo on the left hand side? Sorry, but DUST is just a different client and gamespace to the EVE universe, like it or not. It's an expansion to the New Eden experience. DUST corps are EVE corps, mail and chat is (going to be) shared, economies will be merged. . . hmm, yeah, different game altogether. FFS, get over it already. Also: ISK is not money. It's 1's and 0's in a database. Yes, you should be able to use ISK that you have earned, amassed or been provided to help win a fight. Real world works that way so why not here? Sounds like you just want to buy the win. You eve players just want to be handed everything. This game is not pay to win. 'Well maybe its pay to win with isk in competive corp battles" lol no just no. worst idea since the 1 hit knife kill thread. Dust 514 is part of the eve universe. Its not the same game. Its not even on the same platform. Play semantics all you want its a different game with a different name that will be interconnected with another game on PC. You sir are wrong dust 514=/=eve online and it is not pay to win. Get over it. Adapt or die.
John Surratt Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 49	Posted - 2012.07.18 06:52:00 - [17] - Quote Crimson MoonV wrote: Dust 514 is part of the eve universe. Its not the same game. Its not even on the same platform. Play semantics all you want its a different game with a different name that will be interconnected with another game on PC. You sir are wrong dust 514=/=eve online and it is not pay to win. Get over it. adapt or die. Isn't it cute when they try to be all troll-ey and throw the "adapt or die" line around? Answer me this: What does it say above that DUST logo in the upper left hand corner of the link I put in the earlier post? You're going to be playing a game that is coded on stackless python, running on a big server cluster in London. The "game" is (going to be) the same software that is running on that server, which incidentally is the same software that the EVE players are noodling with right now. Your PS3 client is exactly that. A client. A different client that interfaces with TQ. It's not semantics. Incidentally, they are doing hardware upgrades to TQ right now. Coincidence? EVE isn't pay to win. My alliance may have chipped in a giant mound of PLEX to bid on a slot in the alliance tournament, but we didn't pay cash for them. . . soemone else did, but not us. ISK is gathered through playing, it's another resource that is gathered in game. If you amassed a mountain of ISK through your elite DUST gameplay and could always afford top tier gear, would that be an unfair advantage? If you could afford top tier gear and me or the other guy couldn't would that be unfair? What if I had deep pockets as an EVE player and wanted to hire the best mercs and equip them with the best gear to defend my planet against a larger but less wealthy foe? Would that be unfair? In all instances, in absolute terms it's unfair, but that is what sandbox is all about. Some call that "deeper" game play. Not everything in life, or New Eden is right or fair. Sometimes you get your s-it pushed in and soemtimes, you push someone else's s-it in. Since you want to troll, take your own advice and HTFU.
Angavu Vulgaris Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 4	Posted - 2012.07.18 07:04:00 - [18] - Quote You misunderstand. Perhaps it should be phrased differently. Resources affect the outcome of all and any battle, fictional or real. It is not pay to win. It is "Whoever has the most resources, has the most weapons, and has the most power wins". So, it will be both a battle of skill and resource management. Please close this thread lol...
John Surratt Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 49	Posted - 2012.07.18 07:06:00 - [19] - Quote Angavu Vulgaris wrote: You misunderstand. Perhaps it should be phrased differently. Resources affect the outcome of all and any battle, fictional or real. It is not pay to win. It is "Whoever has the most resources, has the most weapons, and has the most power wins". So, it will be both a battle of skill and resource management. Please close this thread lol... Why anyone goes to play a sandbox game and then argues for "fair" set piece battles is beyond me. Maybe I need to post another recipe. . .
Umallon Macross Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 281	Posted - 2012.07.18 07:06:00 - [20] - Quote How much sandbox? ALL THE SANDBOX

Crimson MoonV Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 658	Posted - 2012.07.18 07:08:00 - [21] - Quote John Surratt wrote: Crimson MoonV wrote: Dust 514 is part of the eve universe. Its not the same game. Its not even on the same platform. Play semantics all you want its a different game with a different name that will be interconnected with another game on PC. You sir are wrong dust 514=/=eve online and it is not pay to win. Get over it. adapt or die. Isn't it cute when they try to be all troll-ey and throw the "adapt or die" line around? Answer me this: What does it say above that DUST logo in the upper left hand corner of the link I put int he earlier post? You're going to be playing a game that is coded on stackless python, running on a big server cluster in London. The "game" is (going to be) the same software that is running on that server, which incidentally is the same software that the EVE players are noodling with right now. Your PS3 client is exactly that. A client. A different client that interfaces with TQ. It's not semantics. EVE isn't pay to win. My alliance may have chipped in a giant mound of PLEX to bid on a slot in the alliance tournament, but we didn't pay cash for them. . . ISK is gathered through playing, it's another resource that is gathered in game. If you amassed a mountain of ISK through your elite DUST gameplay and could always afford top tier gear, would that be an unfair advantage? If you could afford top tier gear and me or the other guy couldn't would that be unfair? Some call that "deeper" game play. What if I had deep pockets as an EVE player and wanted to hire the best mercs and equip them with the best gear to defend my planet against a larger foe? Would that be unfair? In all instances, in absolute terms it's unfair, but that is what sandbox is all about. Not everything in life, or New Eden is right or fair. Sometimes you get your s-it pushed in and soemtimes you push someone else's s-it in. Since you want to troll, take your own advice and HTFU. That link you posted is to nerdy for words. Wow, just wow. You eve players are a little bit more quirky then I had expected Way to miss my point completely again. I was talking about high end competitive corp battles. They will be balanced because both teams will have full proto gear and weapons. Dust=/=eve Same universe, different names, different games, different platform. The engine doesn't matter stop nitpicking and changing the subject. Eve is pay to win. Dust is not. Adapt or die. Oh wait you can't adapt? You want to be able to buy the win. What a joke. Go buy the win on eve. dust is not eve. Its to bad you can't buy skill or gun game with AUR
KingBlade82 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 56	Posted - 2012.07.18 07:14:00 - [22] - Quote Crimson MoonV wrote: Armatsu wrote: Crimson MoonV wrote: Armatsu wrote: As a thought since fielding troops will be an issue for CCP (meaning a max number of players on a battlefield at a time) what are peoples thoughts on corps going after clones? For instance say for instance we have the same numbers for ambush (24 total and 12 a side). 12 people should be relatively easy to field even for smaller corps. In the true essence of EVE where money is power, why not translate funds into clones? Example: Both sides are even and field 12 players. This now comes down to which 12 players are better at the game. That sounds good for DUST but that isn't going to fly in EVE if this battle is for an important planet. Instead, after fielding 12 players, allow the corps to purchase clones. Now it comes down to a battle of attrition and the more powerful corporation winning. What you would see now are large corps being able to muscle the battle by supplying 100+ clones compared to the medium sized ones maybe only getting enough resources for 50. This would be a similar scenario to a low sec battle where one corp brings 100+ ships and the other corp only mustering up 50. Money should not win battles and you should not be able to pay to win in a corp battle. Terrible idea. If this is like EVE online then money does win battles and you do pay to win corp battles. It isn't as blatantly obvious but in EVE a corp with a lot of money will fly out in expensive decked out ships specialized for PvP compared to a less wealthy corp where most of the members would be lucky to be flying a well fitted ratting rig. My example would be for Null sec only, it wouldn't affect low or high sec space at all. This isn't eve online though. This is dust and ccp already said this game will not be pay to win. An elite corp battle will be full of the best gear. Sure the corp with best loadouts, teamwork, and skill will win. Money will only win corp battles if the other corp is full of scrubs with militia gear while the other team have all proto gear. Elite corp battle will be on a somewhat level field. Which is how it should be. ummm my understanding from CCP is that they said that because the game is free to play so no paying (real money) member will have an obvious advantage i never knew the sick **** that goes on in eve this really may be the most bloodthirsty fps ever we dont know yet
Laurent Cazaderon Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 1155	Posted - 2012.07.18 07:16:00 - [23] - Quote I want a sahara desert like sandbox ! Something huge. Planetary conquest, planetary management, industry, economics, trade, diplomacy, negociation, being able to choose if my corp is autocratic, meritocratic, communist lol. I want it all. And i dont care if it takes 3 years to get there. PS: love to crimson !
Crimson MoonV Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 658	Posted - 2012.07.18 07:20:00 - [24] - Quote Laurent Cazaderon wrote: PS: love to crimson ! <3 ;p>
John Surratt Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 49	Posted - 2012.07.18 07:26:00 - [25] - Quote Crimson MoonV wrote: That link you posted is to nerdy for words. Wow, just wow. You eve players are a little bit more quirky then I had expected Way to miss my point completely again. I was talking about high end competitive corp battles. They will be balanced because both teams will have full proto gear and weapons. Dust=/=eve Same universe, different names, different games, different platform. The engine is doesn't matter stop nitpicking and changing the subject. Eve is pay to win. Dust is not. Adapt or die. Oh wait you can't adapt? You want to be able to buy the win. What a joke. Go buy the win on eve. dust is not eve. Careful folks. As for the remark about the link to the info about TQ, this Same universe, different clients interfacing with the same server and database, different platform (although that is tenuous because EVE used to support Windows, Mac, and native Linux. I wonder if I could get the EVE cleint to run on a PS3 running Linux. . .). The engine is different but uses CCP's CARBON/CREST framework & backend. I'll post a quote from this Dev blog from a while back. . . Quote: The EVE universe is such a rich and interesting place it's been a shame we haven't been able to immerse ourselves deeper into it. Until today where we are witnessing the first baby steps out of space and into the place where the rest of the inhabitants of the EVE universe live. Steps which will soon be followed all the way to the ground by a link into DUST 514 and inside stations with Incarna. Our final destination being an all encompassing sci-fi simulator where you can experience any sci-fi experience you desire. How did you arrive at the "fact" EVE is pay to win? Seems we had a big old debacle in that game a while back on P2W microtransactions. . . I didn't say anything about paying cash to win. I did say that I'd like to be able to use whatever resources are available to win. If you as a purely DUST player are allowed to use ISK that is provided to you by a purely EVE player to level the playing field or have a possible advantage, wouldn't that be over all good for greater gameplay? Wouldn't that create more emergent gameplay? Come to think of it, I wonder what the "clones" thing in the DUST menu is all about. . hmmm, Nah, probably just an oversight. Maybe it will bring up a picture of Temuera Morrison
Umallon Macross Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 281	Posted - 2012.07.18 07:28:00 - [26] - Quote Crimson MoonV wrote: John Surratt wrote: Crimson MoonV wrote: Dust 514 is part of the eve universe. Its not the same game. Its not even on the same platform. Play semantics all you want its a different game with a different name that will be interconnected with another game on PC. You sir are wrong dust 514=/=eve online and it is not pay to win. Get over it. adapt or die. Isn't it cute when they try to be all troll-ey and throw the "adapt or die" line around? Answer me this: What does it say above that DUST logo in the upper left hand corner of the link I put int he earlier post? You're going to be playing a game that is coded on stackless python, running on a big server cluster in London. The "game" is (going to be) the same software that is running on that server, which incidentally is the same software that the EVE players are noodling with right now. Your PS3 client is exactly that. A client. A different client that interfaces with TQ. It's not semantics. EVE isn't pay to win. My alliance may have chipped in a giant mound of PLEX to bid on a slot in the alliance tournament, but we didn't pay cash for them. . . ISK is gathered through playing, it's another resource that is gathered in game. If you amassed a mountain of ISK through your elite DUST gameplay and could always afford top tier gear, would that be an unfair advantage? If you could afford top tier gear and me or the other guy couldn't would that be unfair? Some call that "deeper" game play. What if I had deep pockets as an EVE player and wanted to hire the best mercs and equip them with the best gear to defend my planet against a larger foe? Would that be unfair? In all instances, in absolute terms it's unfair, but that is what sandbox is all about. Not everything in life, or New Eden is right or fair. Sometimes you get your s-it pushed in and soemtimes you push someone else's s-it in. Since you want to troll, take your own advice and HTFU. That link you posted is to nerdy for words. Wow, just wow. You eve players are a little bit more quirky then I had expected Way to miss my point completely again. I was talking about high end competitive corp battles. They will be balanced because both teams will have full proto gear and weapons. Dust=/=eve Same universe, different names, different games, different platform. The engine doesn't matter stop nitpicking and changing the subject. Eve is pay to win. Dust is not. Adapt or die. Oh wait you can't adapt? You want to be able to buy the win. What a joke. Go buy the win on eve. dust is not eve. Its to bad you can't buy skill or gun game with AUR I'mma buy a plex. I'mma sell the plex. I'mma outfit my whole corp with quality dropsuits and vehicles.
Jarre Jardox Cool Story But It Needs More EVE 30	Posted - 2012.07.18 07:36:00 - [27] - Quote Crimson wen u face the blobs of the goons or the fiery of AAA guns raining down on u from orbit I hope then tht u finally realize this isn't just dust THIS IS EVE where isk can buy u anything including cheep women (exotic dancers gotta love um). So please take ur unsopported opinion back to whatever game u came from or embrace the EVE universe in all its glory where u can own large sections of the universe, lose everything to a corp thief, make drugs, shoot the police, and make some of the best friends (and enemies) u ever had. Good day sir!
John Surratt Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 49	Posted - 2012.07.18 07:40:00 - [28] - Quote Umallon Macross wrote: I'mma buy a plex. I'mma sell the plex. I'mma outfit my whole corp with quality dropsuits and vehicles. At market prices, you'd be better off to buy Aurum equipment. 500 mil or even a few billlion is not a lot in absolute terms on an alliance level. . . Also, your whole corp would have to be able to use those items, have sufficient RL skill for them to make a difference, and have the skill to be able to fight an actual objective based battle. . . . . .and what for the love of god prevents a DUST merc corp to ask for support from their EVE contractors? What prevents you from saying "Yeah, I'll take that contract, but I'm gonna need a billion ISK, with an advance for weapons and equipment. . . Also, the market is not going to be opened for quite some time between the two games so PLEX is a non issue for the foreseeable future. I don't foresee a redeem PLEX button being put into the DUST client for a long long time. . . and DUST mercs are not going to be able to trade on the EVE market until such time as the resident economist can figure out how not to have the market crashed. . . where would you sell the PLEX for ISK if not on the EVE market? ISK doesn't come out of a black hole or magic hat. It has to be ratted for.
Renzo Kuken Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 369	Posted - 2012.07.18 07:45:00 - [29] - Quote Crimson MoonV wrote: Armatsu wrote: Crimson MoonV wrote: Armatsu wrote: As a thought since fielding troops will be an issue for CCP (meaning a max number of players on a battlefield at a time) what are peoples thoughts on corps going after clones? For instance say for instance we have the same numbers for ambush (24 total and 12 a side). 12 people should be relatively easy to field even for smaller corps. In the true essence of EVE where money is power, why not translate funds into clones? Example: Both sides are even and field 12 players. This now comes down to which 12 players are better at the game. That sounds good for DUST but that isn't going to fly in EVE if this battle is for an important planet. Instead, after fielding 12 players, allow the corps to purchase clones. Now it comes down to a battle of attrition and the more powerful corporation winning. What you would see now are large corps being able to muscle the battle by supplying 100+ clones compared to the medium sized ones maybe only getting enough resources for 50. This would be a similar scenario to a low sec battle where one corp brings 100+ ships and the other corp only mustering up 50. Money should not win battles and you should not be able to pay to win in a corp battle. Terrible idea. If this is like EVE online then money does win battles and you do pay to win corp battles. It isn't as blatantly obvious but in EVE a corp with a lot of money will fly out in expensive decked out ships specialized for PvP compared to a less wealthy corp where most of the members would be lucky to be flying a well fitted ratting rig. My example would be for Null sec only, it wouldn't affect low or high sec space at all. This isn't eve online though. This is dust and ccp already said this game will not be pay to win. An elite corp battle will be full of the best gear. Sure the corp with best loadouts, teamwork, and skill will win. Money will only win corp battles if the other corp is full of scrubs with militia gear while the other team have all proto gear. Elite corp battle will be on a somewhat level field. Which is how it should be. but this IS eve online did you miss the mem where EVE and dust are in the same universe? so there for they share the same rules
John Surratt Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 49	Posted - 2012.07.18 07:48:00 - [30] - Quote Renzo Kuken wrote: but this IS eve online did you miss the mem where EVE and dust are in the same universe? so there for they share the same rules This: Edit: now fixed for the obtuse and trolls.



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