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My concerns about Nova

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Talos Vagheitan Ancient Exiles. 2949	Posted - 2016.10.10 19:00:00 - [1] - Quote 1.) Rattati said something about "players made it clear they wanted better gameplay" --- I worry that CCP now thinks players care MORE about smooth gameplay than all the grand meta stuff of Dust, and that Nova might turn into a fun little lobby shooter, but be missing economy, player groups, eve-link etc... It needs all of the above! 2.) I worry that CCP is going to be reluctant to take risks with Nova, based that Dust wasn't as successful as it could have been. Really tho, Dust had a winning formula, any other shooter should be envious of the persistent universe of Dust. THAT'S what keeps players long-term. Compare that to the player retention gimmicks of other shooters: unlocking customization options in RNG loot drops... And you have them all beat! Your player retention system is better, that's how you kept a player base for nearly 4 years in this free ps3 shooter. Maximize that! 3.) Ultimately, I worry that CCP thinks that a shooter can't be done in their universe, and are half-heartedly working on "nova" while some higher-up suit-and-tie has his finger on the "abort" button waiting to axe the whole thing at the first moment of trouble... Really if it werent for a handful of specific blunders Dust would have been much more successful than it was. I think Nova should be the opportunity to learn from all the mistakes and do it properly from the beginning! Join the DUST STEAM GROUP
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8623	Posted - 2016.10.10 19:14:00 - [2] - Quote I know even my Boundless Optimism can cut through everyone's fears or salt but I'll give it a shot. 1) Don't let the tech demo scare you and remember that Twitter and the Forums are not the only place developers talk. Both Rattati and Frame have openly talked about understanding that the players care deeply about the unique parts that DUST had, and it is equally important to them in NOVA. At the same time CCP understands that the game needs to play well and be at least competitive against other shooters out there to get people in the door. Many would be DUST players tried it out for a couple of days, got frustrated with the poor gunplay, and left. Now I don't expect NOVA to outperform games like Battlefield and Destiny in terms of gunplay, but it needs to be at least close so new players will stick around to actually get hooked on the parts that are unique to DUST/NOVA. 2) This somewhat ties in with #1. I don't think they're afraid to take risks, but unlike DUST which was full of blind and mismanaged risks, the risks in Nova need to be calculated choises that are built upon a strong foundation. This is critical because I'd you take a risk and it flops, you need a strong foundation to fall back on to still keep player engaged while you try something else that may work better. The desire to take risks is there, but we must put the cart before the horse either. 3) With Star Citizen on the horizon, however far fetched as that project may be, it is a looming threat to CCP in the sense that players have in their mind that a space based universe can have a wide range of gameplay available, may that be a tactical spaceship combat, or a dogfighter, or an FPS game. Even if Star Citizen flops, the expectation is in the mind of gamers now and any company in that genre of games knows that if they are to remain competitive...they need to develop on that level. Already we see CCP diving into 4 distinctively different types of gameplay set in the same universe with EVE, Valkyrie, Gunjack, and Dust/Nova. CCP may do some stupid **** sometimes, but they're smart enough to know that an FPS in the NewEden universe is only going to help them push their product, which is not a game, but rather a whole universe. EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 16059	Posted - 2016.10.10 20:08:00 - [3] - Quote I think your concerns are valid, and in fact probably true, BUT I don't think that they will lead to bad outcomes. 1) Poor Dust gameplay led to horrible retention rates. Gameplay is the cornerstone of any game. Its the reason Dust failed. Rattati also recently mentioned that what they were currently doing was taking our feedback and making what game play they had and giving it New Eden and Dust flavor. I think that it is best to give the benefit of the doubt this early on. 2) Given the failure of Dust, I can imagine that they may be risk adverse at first. Particularly the people above Rattati who seem to have less attachment to the game. That being said, Rattati did a great job of proving the viability of Dust such as it was from a business perspective, which is a major boone. I believe that once Nova is able to prove itself, the fact it is on PC and can have test servers etc. will enable it to take risks and grow after release. 3) I think that while those above Rattati may have half hearted perspectives towards Nova that Rattati, LogicLoop, Frame, and Logibro are all heavily invested in the future of Nova. I think that is what is very important. Although I do still think the greatest concern is the upper management of CCP. If Nova gets f*cked, it won't be because of the people directly involved with the game. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 10551	Posted - 2016.10.10 20:20:00 - [4] - Quote Don't be blinded by nostalgia. Yes, plenty of people will tell you that they very much enjoyed dust, but they will also tell you that the game ran horribly, if at all, most of the time. Also, it didn't keep enough players long term. Those of us that stayed are few and far in between from the thousands that created accounts to play, only to abandon the game shortly after after academy, if not during. Dust had a ton of problems that kept it from being successful, not just a few. *Scouts United* Gk.0s & Quafes all day.
DUST Fiend 18752	Posted - 2016.10.10 21:19:00 - [5] - Quote Joel II X wrote: Dust had a ton of problems that kept it from being successful, not just a few. The thing that worries me most is that if they just make it CoD in space it will do great and people will praise it like OMG CCP like this is AMAZEBALLS and those of us that fell in love with DUST for its potential will be smashing their heads into walls repeatedly. I already do that, but it's my therapy regimen. Lord of all things salty, purveyor of gloomish doom and naysayer extraordinaire. AV Incubus Specialist, Ex Prometheus
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8625	Posted - 2016.10.10 21:42:00 - [6] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Joel II X wrote: Dust had a ton of problems that kept it from being successful, not just a few. The thing that worries me most is that if they just make it CoD in space it will do great and people will praise it like OMG CCP like this is AMAZEBALLS and those of us that fell in love with DUST for its potential will be smashing their heads into walls repeatedly. I already do that, but it's my therapy regimen. The brain trauma actually explains a lot... EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
Alena Asakura Rogue Clones Yulai Federation 1196	Posted - 2016.10.10 22:22:00 - [7] - Quote Talos Vagheitan wrote: 1.) Rattati said something about "players made it clear they wanted better gameplay" --- I worry that CCP now thinks players care MORE about smooth gameplay than all the grand meta stuff of Dust, and that Nova might turn into a fun little lobby shooter, but be missing economy, player groups, eve-link etc... It needs all of the above! 2.) I worry that CCP is going to be reluctant to take risks with Nova, based that Dust wasn't as successful as it could have been. Really tho, Dust had a winning formula, any other shooter should be envious of the persistent universe of Dust. THAT'S what keeps players long-term. Compare that to the player retention gimmicks of other shooters: unlocking customization options in RNG loot drops... And you have them all beat! Your player retention system is better, that's how you kept a player base for nearly 4 years in this free ps3 shooter. Maximize that! 3.) Ultimately, I worry that CCP thinks that a shooter can't be done in their universe, and are half-heartedly working on "nova" while some higher-up suit-and-tie has his finger on the "abort" button waiting to axe the whole thing at the first moment of trouble... Really if it werent for a handful of specific blunders Dust would have been much more successful than it was. I think Nova should be the opportunity to learn from all the mistakes and do it properly from the beginning! TLDR: I totally agree with this, and while reading it, was reminded that I had some ideas right from the start of Dust about how it could have been done better. It wasn't at the time, but now it could be. While reading this, I had a flash of inspiration about the sort of thing I thought Dust was going to be and how I think it could have (perhaps should have) worked. I came from EvE. I started with it way back, I now count myself as a long-liner, even though since Dust I have hardly played it. My first impression of Dust was through the EvE interface as it was going to be - Walking In Stations. That ultimately never came to fruition, other than being able to walk around the Captain's Quarters, which was the EvE version of the Merc's Quarters in Dust. Probably the best thing about that was the ability to fully customise your avatar, something Dust never actually got. But I saw this as the logical launch point for a FPS to grow out of EvE Online, that EvE pilots would have the option to put on a suit of armour and go planetside and duke it out with other EvE pilots and mercenaries to really make a difference to the ongoing wars in New Eden, through actually taking territory. The high point of that vision was of course, the battle over Caldari Prime, yet it involved no EvE pilot mercs on the ground - they were all still in their ships, thanks to a tremendous amount of negativity from the EvE community themselves. They simply never saw the massive potential in expanding EvE to encompass these other modes of game play, and so Dust was relegated to being a separate game, with minimal EvE link., at least in my mind. I have no idea what was in developers' heads at the time. I was only going by the direction that things seemed to be taking in thinking that the intention was to implement a FPS as an extension of EvE. It was with great sadness that the realisation dawned that this would probably never happen. Now with Nova, there is still the possibility that down the track it might still, especially now that it's going to PC and perhaps further in the future with a well defined EvE link. I still think the concept of having separate logins for different games is flawed. There is simply no reason for this. My EvE characters, particularly my main, Nalianna, should be able to just don armour and go fight with guns, just with a flick of a switch to turn on that functionality. Additional payment through micropayments or subscription, a function that already exists in EvE would allow the training of an EvE character to fight in Nova, to fly a fighter in Valkyrie, whatever. Since they all share the same database, it just makes sense that this should be possible, but for the differences that exist in the payment options and methods for each. The move to F2P for EvE is a major step towards allowing everyone to do everything on the one account, with appropriate subscriptions and micropayments.
Alena Asakura Rogue Clones Yulai Federation 1196	Posted - 2016.10.10 22:26:00 - [8] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Although I do still think the greatest concern is the upper management of CCP. If Nova gets f*cked, it won't be because of the people directly involved with the game. This is my biggest concern as well. I believe the upper management of CCP is the biggest threat to Nova and possibly to CCP's vision.
DUST Fiend 18760	Posted - 2016.10.10 23:29:00 - [9] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Joel II X wrote: Dust had a ton of problems that kept it from being successful, not just a few. The thing that worries me most is that if they just make it CoD in space it will do great and people will praise it like OMG CCP like this is AMAZEBALLS and those of us that fell in love with DUST for its potential will be smashing their heads into walls repeatedly. I already do that, but it's my therapy regimen. The brain trauma actually explains a lot... It's not trauma, it's experience. Lots, and lots, and LOTS of experience. GET ON MA LEVL! Lord of all things salty, purveyor of gloomish doom and naysayer extraordinaire. AV Incubus Specialist, Ex Prometheus
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8637	Posted - 2016.10.10 23:57:00 - [10] - Quote Experienced? You mean well salted? EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer

Maken Tosch Dust University Ivy League 13643	Posted - 2016.10.11 00:07:00 - [11] - Quote Don't worry. After seeing how CCP Rattati, CCP LogicLoop, CCP Frame, and other Devs have communicated their intentions and how they respond to the community feedback in the forums and other forms of social media (ever heard of Discord chat?), it seems likely that Nova will not only be a solid shooter but it will also have at least something that made Dust unique. In fact, we had a topic on that a while ago. Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
DUST Fiend 18769	Posted - 2016.10.11 02:41:00 - [12] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Experienced? You mean well salted? Did you just call me 'well' salted? I AM salt you ******* pleb. I make things taste delicious. Plus I give people kidney stones. I'm nice like that ;) Lord of all things salty, purveyor of gloomish doom and naysayer extraordinaire. AV Incubus Specialist, Ex Prometheus
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8638	Posted - 2016.10.11 02:53:00 - [13] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Experienced? You mean well salted? Did you just call me 'well' salted? I AM salt you ******* pleb. I make things taste delicious. Plus I give people kidney stones. I'm nice like that ;) Quickly! Everyone rub your meat on DUST Fiend! Everyone loves salted meat. EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
DUST Fiend 18769	Posted - 2016.10.11 03:31:00 - [14] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Experienced? You mean well salted? Did you just call me 'well' salted? I AM salt you ***** pleb. I make things taste delicious. Plus I give people kidney stones. I'm nice like that ;) Quickly! Everyone rub your meat on DUST Fiend! Everyone loves salted meat. Suddenly I feel like this If it weren't for me all ya'll ***** that go to the Ocean would basically be swimming in a giant puddle of sperm, so, you're welcome And for those like Pokey, I'm sorry Lord of all things salty, purveyor of gloomish doom and naysayer extraordinaire. AV Incubus Specialist, Ex Prometheus
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8639	Posted - 2016.10.11 07:29:00 - [15] - Quote There are no others that can match my level of Optimism. You and me, we're like Batman and the Joker, one cant exist without the other. EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
DUST Fiend 18769	Posted - 2016.10.11 11:29:00 - [16] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: There are no others that can match my level of Optimism. You and me, we're like Batman and the Joker, one cant exist without the other. Awww, you think I'm Batman Flux it, I'M BATMAN! Also, swear filter doesn't work on signatures. I think it's related to Scotty.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8639	Posted - 2016.10.11 13:03:00 - [17] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: There are no others that can match my level of Optimism. You and me, we're like Batman and the Joker, one cant exist without the other. Awww, you think I'm Batman Why so serious? EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
DUST Fiend 18770	Posted - 2016.10.11 13:27:00 - [18] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: There are no others that can match my level of Optimism. You and me, we're like Batman and the Joker, one cant exist without the other. Awww, you think I'm Batman Why so serious? I'm about as serious as a drunk game of Zombies in Halo 1 So, kinda serious. Flux it, I'M BATMAN! Also, swear filter doesn't work on signatures. I think it's related to Scotty.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 7921	Posted - 2016.10.11 14:24:00 - [19] - Quote Talos Vagheitan wrote: 1.) Rattati said something about "players made it clear they wanted better gameplay" --- I worry that CCP now thinks players care MORE about smooth gameplay than all the grand meta stuff of Dust, and that Nova might turn into a fun little lobby shooter, but be missing economy, player groups, eve-link etc... It needs all of the above! 2.) I worry that CCP is going to be reluctant to take risks with Nova, based that Dust wasn't as successful as it could have been. Really tho, Dust had a winning formula, any other shooter should be envious of the persistent universe of Dust. THAT'S what keeps players long-term. Compare that to the player retention gimmicks of other shooters: unlocking customization options in RNG loot drops... And you have them all beat! Your player retention system is better, that's how you kept a player base for nearly 4 years in this free ps3 shooter. Maximize that! 3.) Ultimately, I worry that CCP thinks that a shooter can't be done in their universe, and are half-heartedly working on "nova" while some higher-up suit-and-tie has his finger on the "abort" button waiting to axe the whole thing at the first moment of trouble... Really if it werent for a handful of specific blunders Dust would have been much more successful than it was. I think Nova should be the opportunity to learn from all the mistakes and do it properly from the beginning! As I understand it, the plan is to create a fun little [smooth, well functioning] lobby shooter, then add to it in the following order: - EVE theme. Give it the look and feel of New Eden. - Player Groups. Chat channels, Corps, Alliances. (EVE Link) - Player Economy. Open markets. Possibly scavenging or resource harvesting. Player to Player market. (EVE link?) - Planetary Conquest. - Vehicles. - Physical EVE Link. (Possible, if the FPS is successful, and EVE players are interested in the games being linked.) But before they commit to all of that, the game must prove to be successful, so it will probably be released at the Player Groups, or Player Economy stage. Vehicles are not expected at release, and Planetary Conquest may not be included on release either. I think it would make sense to add Planetary Conquest and Vehicles at the same time and give Vehicles a clear role in Planetary Conquest. As to your second point, see your third point. While CCP upper management might not be fully committed when it comes to the development of a New Eden FPS, Rattati dam well is, and I expect his team is as well. They want to insure that the new FPS excels at each stage of development, and in the end, I suspect that having to prove the game to upper management will lead to it being a good solid game. Nothing like a bit of resistance to make you stronger and more committed. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 7921	Posted - 2016.10.11 14:49:00 - [20] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: With Star Citizen on the horizon, however far fetched as that project may be, it is a looming threat to CCP in the sense that players have in their mind that a space based universe can have a wide range of gameplay available, may that be a tactical spaceship combat, or a dogfighter, or an FPS game. Even if Star Citizen flops, the expectation is in the mind of gamers now and any company in that genre of games knows that if they are to remain competitive...they need to develop on that level. Already we see CCP diving into 4 distinctively different types of gameplay set in the same universe with EVE, Valkyrie, Gunjack, and Dust/Nova. This is a very pragmatic, and strong, argument for why CCP will be forced by market pressures to support the development of a New Eden FPS. For those who don't buy all the arguments based on Boundless Optimism, maybe they will believe this one, solidly based in Boundless Pessimism. In a few years any spaceship game that does not offer a first person experience will be obsolete. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.

Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 7922	Posted - 2016.10.11 15:03:00 - [21] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: 1) Poor Dust gameplay led to horrible retention rates. Gameplay is the cornerstone of any game. Its the reason Dust failed. Rattati also recently mentioned that what they were currently doing was taking our feedback and making what game play they had and giving it New Eden and Dust flavor. I think that it is best to give the benefit of the doubt this early on. That is a good point. Most people quit DUST in the first couple of days, while in Destiny most people did not quite until they reached end game content and found there was not enough there to keep their interests. While most people who played DUST as long as it would take to reach Destiny end game content, usually continued to play DUST for years. If the sequel to DUST had better initial retention rates, and kept the aspects from DUST which kept people's interest for so long, then the sequel to DUST should be able to build a good size player base and retain them for a long time. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
DUST Fiend 18770	Posted - 2016.10.11 15:19:00 - [22] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: With Star Citizen on the horizon, however far fetched as that project may be, it is a looming threat to CCP in the sense that players have in their mind that a space based universe can have a wide range of gameplay available, may that be a tactical spaceship combat, or a dogfighter, or an FPS game. Even if Star Citizen flops, the expectation is in the mind of gamers now and any company in that genre of games knows that if they are to remain competitive...they need to develop on that level. Already we see CCP diving into 4 distinctively different types of gameplay set in the same universe with EVE, Valkyrie, Gunjack, and Dust/Nova. This is a very pragmatic, and strong, argument for why CCP will be forced by market pressures to support the development of a New Eden FPS. For those who don't buy all the arguments based on Boundless Optimism, maybe they will believe this one, solidly based in Boundless Pessimism. In a few years any spaceship game that does not offer a first person experience will be obsolete. I don't expect SC level design from CCP, I strongly doubt they've got 127 Million dollars to throw into the project lol. I just don't want another generic lobby shooter with an EVE skin, that's all. Flux it, I'M BATMAN! Also, swear filter doesn't work on signatures. I think it's related to Scotty.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 7922	Posted - 2016.10.11 15:32:00 - [23] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: I came from EvE. I started with it way back, I now count myself as a long-liner, even though since Dust I have hardly played it. My first impression of Dust was through the EvE interface as it was going to be - Walking In Stations. That ultimately never came to fruition, other than being able to walk around the Captain's Quarters, which was the EvE version of the Merc's Quarters in Dust. Probably the best thing about that was the ability to fully customise your avatar, something Dust never actually got. I would like to see the addition of an MMO/Social aspect to both games. Have the ability to activate a customized clone in a space station and enter a Bar or Corporate Retreat, or some other meeting establishment. (The fire marshal could impose limits on the number of patrons in an establishment, which would conveniently control lag with a lore explanation.) Automatically activate a voice chat channel for the establishment with proximity controls on volume so only the people close to you are at full volume and the people farther away recede into background noise. Then have a raised voice/Shout option that would allow everyone in the establishment to hear you, and a whisper option to talk to just one specific person. Public bars would be great for meeting new people to play with or to recruit for your Corp. (A complain to management option, where a certain number of complaints would get someone thrown out, should help deal with those who would be deliberately annoying or racist/sexist, etc.) Private rooms could be used to negotiate with Officers from other Corps. Corporate Retreats could be used to socialize with Corp members between matches, and for Corp meetings. It would really add to the MMO aspect of the game, make it feel a lot less like just a lobby shooter, and would not be all that hard to setup as there would be no combat mechanics. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8640	Posted - 2016.10.11 15:32:00 - [24] - Quote I don't expect SC levels either, in fact it's impossible to deliver that kind of combat without basically ripping EVE apart and that simply won't happen. However you also need to bear in mind that EVE players will be the primary targeted audience with Nova, and I'm a firm believer that EVE players would not be satisfied with the game unless it exhibited a similar level of depth and customization that EVE provides. EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
DUST Fiend 18770	Posted - 2016.10.11 15:37:00 - [25] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: I don't expect SC levels either, in fact it's impossible to deliver that kind of combat without basically ripping EVE apart and that simply won't happen. However you also need to bear in mind that EVE players will be the primary targeted audience with Nova, and I'm a firm believer that EVE players would not be satisfied with the game unless it exhibited a similar level of depth and customization that EVE provides. I really doubt too many EVE players will take the time away from EVE to play a game that doesn't remotely resemble EVE. Making a game that directly competes with your primary source of income doesn't seem like the greatest bet to me. It would serve them far better to make Nova worthwhile to EVE players while they're still within EVE, through a stronger connection or even the arena matches we were teased with so long ago. Making an FPS to appease EVE players is just destined to fail. Making an FPS that draws people further into EVE, that feels like a better direction to take. Flux it, I'M BATMAN! Also, swear filter doesn't work on signatures. I think it's related to Scotty.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8640	Posted - 2016.10.11 15:42:00 - [26] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: I don't expect SC levels either, in fact it's impossible to deliver that kind of combat without basically ripping EVE apart and that simply won't happen. However you also need to bear in mind that EVE players will be the primary targeted audience with Nova, and I'm a firm believer that EVE players would not be satisfied with the game unless it exhibited a similar level of depth and customization that EVE provides. I really doubt too many EVE players will take the time away from EVE to play a game that doesn't remotely resemble EVE. Making a game that directly competes with your primary source of income doesn't seem like the greatest bet to me. It would serve them far better to make Nova worthwhile to EVE players while they're still within EVE, through a stronger connection or even the arena matches we were teased with so long ago. Making an FPS to appease EVE players is just destined to fail, or at the very least fracture the community. Making an FPS that draws people further into EVE, that feels like a better direction to take. Except a Dust like game on PC is exactly like that. A EVE-like FPS that appeals to the kind of player that enjoy that style of system design. I'm not exactly sure how you can make a game that doesn't appease EVE players without it betraying the core elements that you yourself said are important. EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
DUST Fiend 18770	Posted - 2016.10.11 15:50:00 - [27] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Except a Dust like game on PC is exactly like that. A EVE-like FPS that appeals to the kind of player that enjoy that style of system design. I'm not exactly sure how you can make a game that doesn't appease EVE players without it betraying the core elements that you yourself said are important. But you'll never have a spread sheet style FPS, and if you want to get good in this style of FPS, you have to commit a good amount of time. The more time you spend getting good at Nova, the less time you spend blowing up things in EVE. Even if Nova were the best thing ever for EVE players and made their spread sheet condoms fill with joy, it would just mean they'd move from EVE to Nova. It just seems odd to make your target audience one that's already invested in your primary game. Don't you want to expand the player base of both games, rather than dwindle one while helping to exclude the average gamer from the other? If the game is simplistic and easy to pick up, it will probably not appeal to EVE players. Yet, if it's as layered and complex as EVE, it will naturally push away the more average and casual player. I guess I just don't see the sense in primarily targeting EVE players, instead of giving EVE players a reason to invest EVE side. Flux it, I'M BATMAN! Also, swear filter doesn't work on signatures. I think it's related to Scotty.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 7922	Posted - 2016.10.11 15:51:00 - [28] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: But I saw this as the logical launch point for a FPS to grow out of EvE Online, that EvE pilots would have the option to put on a suit of armour and go planetside and duke it out with other EvE pilots and mercenaries to really make a difference to the ongoing wars in New Eden, through actually taking territory. The high point of that vision was of course, the battle over Caldari Prime, yet it involved no EvE pilot mercs on the ground - they were all still in their ships, thanks to a tremendous amount of negativity from the EvE community themselves. They simply never saw the massive potential in expanding EvE to encompass these other modes of game play, and so Dust was relegated to being a separate game, with minimal EvE link., at least in my mind. There was a lot of opposition in the EVE community to integrating DUST more fully with EVE. I think a lot of that was due to DUST being on a different platform so EVE players could not play DUST on the same hardware they played EVE on. With Nova being on PC that barrier is removed. Also with other spaceship games promising to provide a first or third person avatar experience, demand for something similar in EVE should increase, and the competition should put pressure on CCP to implement something like that. Alena Asakura wrote: I still think the concept of having separate logins for different games is flawed. There is simply no reason for this. My EvE characters, particularly my main, Nalianna, should be able to just don armour and go fight with guns, just with a flick of a switch to turn on that functionality. Additional payment through micropayments or subscription, a function that already exists in EvE would allow the training of an EvE character to fight in Nova, to fly a fighter in Valkyrie, whatever. Since they all share the same database, it just makes sense that this should be possible, but for the differences that exist in the payment options and methods for each. The move to F2P for EvE is a major step towards allowing everyone to do everything on the one account, with appropriate subscriptions and micropayments. There was mention at one of the Fanfests (the one with the Legion announcement) of letting you chose on the loading screen which game you enter and being able to use the same character in all three games. They even made a change to the database to make that possible. But I agree, I think you should be able to switch from one game to another without leaving the game. It can't be that hard to automate shutting one game down and opening another. The Jump Clone mechanic makes the transition easy lore wise. Yes, it would mean a long loading screen, but it would make all the games feel like part of the same game without having to fully integrate the game engines. They could play the latest Scope News clip while you are waiting to entertain players while the other game loaded. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8640	Posted - 2016.10.11 15:55:00 - [29] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Except a Dust like game on PC is exactly like that. A EVE-like FPS that appeals to the kind of player that enjoy that style of system design. I'm not exactly sure how you can make a game that doesn't appease EVE players without it betraying the core elements that you yourself said are important. But you'll never have a spread sheet style FPS, and if you want to get good in an FPS, you have to commit a good amount of time. The more time you spend getting good at Nova, the less time you spend blowing up things in EVE. Even if Nova were the best thing ever for EVE players and made their spread sheet condoms fill with joy, it would just mean they'd move from EVE to Nova. It just seems odd to make your target audience one that's already invested in your primary game. Don't you want to expand the player base of both games, rather than dwindle one while helping to exclude the average gamer from the other? If the game is simplistic and easy to pick up, it will probably not appeal to EVE players. Yet, if it's as layered and complex as EVE, it will naturally push away the more average and casual player. I guess I just don't see the sense in primarily targeting EVE players, instead of giving EVE players a reason to invest EVE side. I guess I'm confused about what you want then. You seem to be implying you want to draw in players that normally would not be interested in EVE, but you're worried that the game won't have enough EVE-like elements and will be too mainstream...even though mainstream is what will draw in more non-EVE players. EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 7922	Posted - 2016.10.11 15:58:00 - [30] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: With Star Citizen on the horizon, however far fetched as that project may be, it is a looming threat to CCP in the sense that players have in their mind that a space based universe can have a wide range of gameplay available, may that be a tactical spaceship combat, or a dogfighter, or an FPS game. Even if Star Citizen flops, the expectation is in the mind of gamers now and any company in that genre of games knows that if they are to remain competitive...they need to develop on that level. Already we see CCP diving into 4 distinctively different types of gameplay set in the same universe with EVE, Valkyrie, Gunjack, and Dust/Nova. This is a very pragmatic, and strong, argument for why CCP will be forced by market pressures to support the development of a New Eden FPS. For those who don't buy all the arguments based on Boundless Optimism, maybe they will believe this one, solidly based in Boundless Pessimism. In a few years any spaceship game that does not offer a first person experience will be obsolete. I don't expect SC level design from CCP, I strongly doubt they've got 127 Million dollars to throw into the project lol. I just don't want another generic lobby shooter with an EVE skin, that's all. No, I expect CCP to cheat. Just have your EVE character jumpclone into a DUST clone (close EVE and open DUST2 in the background while you watch the latest Scope News broadcast) and then your EVE character is walking around in a dropsuit ready for some FPS action. You get to have FPS and Spaceships in the same game without having to go single shard and seamless. The whole Jumpclone technology of uploading your consciousness to the net and downloading into a new body really makes it easy since by definition it is not a seamless transition. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.



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