DUST Search - My concerns about Nova

Maken Tosch wrote:

DUST Fiend wrote:

Pokey Dravon wrote:

More confused about the lack of understanding of how development studios work. Especially since there is quite a bit of communication about the development of Nova scattered about on the forums, Skype, discord ect.

It's probably just a lack of faith in their management. Legion was "being developed". DUST was "being developed". WoD was "being developed".

And really?

"Quite a bit of info"

Really?

....

Reeeaaaaallllyyyyy?

Actually we were given vastly more information on Project Nova than all of the previous projects that never saw the light of day (WoD & Legion) combined. At least with Nova Fanfest attendees were given a functional game to try out that was run on Steam via a server located in Germany with the game played online in Iceland. CCP could have just stuck to making it a local LAN party but instead they went further than that.

We also know who is working on the maps (CCP LogicLoop), who is the executive producer for Nova (CCP Rattati), we know that the game has a new weapon we never saw before (Minmatar Precision Rifle), we know which engine it's being developed on (Unreal Engine 4) which is what everyone on the forums was asking CCP to do in the first place, we know it's very likely going to be on Steam given how the demo worked at Fanfest 2016, and CCP LogicLoop even gave us a glimpse of what his new map might look like on twitter (I'll be honest here, it was a rough pen sketch on a napkin) and that was during his first week since his return to CCP as Senior Level Designer.


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DUST Fiend 18752	Posted - 2016.10.10 21:19:00 - [1] - Quote Joel II X wrote: Dust had a ton of problems that kept it from being successful, not just a few. The thing that worries me most is that if they just make it CoD in space it will do great and people will praise it like OMG CCP like this is AMAZEBALLS and those of us that fell in love with DUST for its potential will be smashing their heads into walls repeatedly. I already do that, but it's my therapy regimen. Lord of all things salty, purveyor of gloomish doom and naysayer extraordinaire. AV Incubus Specialist, Ex Prometheus
DUST Fiend 18760	Posted - 2016.10.10 23:29:00 - [2] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Joel II X wrote: Dust had a ton of problems that kept it from being successful, not just a few. The thing that worries me most is that if they just make it CoD in space it will do great and people will praise it like OMG CCP like this is AMAZEBALLS and those of us that fell in love with DUST for its potential will be smashing their heads into walls repeatedly. I already do that, but it's my therapy regimen. The brain trauma actually explains a lot... It's not trauma, it's experience. Lots, and lots, and LOTS of experience. GET ON MA LEVL! Lord of all things salty, purveyor of gloomish doom and naysayer extraordinaire. AV Incubus Specialist, Ex Prometheus
DUST Fiend 18769	Posted - 2016.10.11 02:41:00 - [3] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Experienced? You mean well salted? Did you just call me 'well' salted? I AM salt you ******* pleb. I make things taste delicious. Plus I give people kidney stones. I'm nice like that ;) Lord of all things salty, purveyor of gloomish doom and naysayer extraordinaire. AV Incubus Specialist, Ex Prometheus
DUST Fiend 18769	Posted - 2016.10.11 03:31:00 - [4] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Experienced? You mean well salted? Did you just call me 'well' salted? I AM salt you ***** pleb. I make things taste delicious. Plus I give people kidney stones. I'm nice like that ;) Quickly! Everyone rub your meat on DUST Fiend! Everyone loves salted meat. Suddenly I feel like this If it weren't for me all ya'll ***** that go to the Ocean would basically be swimming in a giant puddle of sperm, so, you're welcome And for those like Pokey, I'm sorry Lord of all things salty, purveyor of gloomish doom and naysayer extraordinaire. AV Incubus Specialist, Ex Prometheus
DUST Fiend 18769	Posted - 2016.10.11 11:29:00 - [5] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: There are no others that can match my level of Optimism. You and me, we're like Batman and the Joker, one cant exist without the other. Awww, you think I'm Batman Flux it, I'M BATMAN! Also, swear filter doesn't work on signatures. I think it's related to Scotty.
DUST Fiend 18770	Posted - 2016.10.11 13:27:00 - [6] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: There are no others that can match my level of Optimism. You and me, we're like Batman and the Joker, one cant exist without the other. Awww, you think I'm Batman Why so serious? I'm about as serious as a drunk game of Zombies in Halo 1 So, kinda serious. Flux it, I'M BATMAN! Also, swear filter doesn't work on signatures. I think it's related to Scotty.
DUST Fiend 18770	Posted - 2016.10.11 15:19:00 - [7] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: With Star Citizen on the horizon, however far fetched as that project may be, it is a looming threat to CCP in the sense that players have in their mind that a space based universe can have a wide range of gameplay available, may that be a tactical spaceship combat, or a dogfighter, or an FPS game. Even if Star Citizen flops, the expectation is in the mind of gamers now and any company in that genre of games knows that if they are to remain competitive...they need to develop on that level. Already we see CCP diving into 4 distinctively different types of gameplay set in the same universe with EVE, Valkyrie, Gunjack, and Dust/Nova. This is a very pragmatic, and strong, argument for why CCP will be forced by market pressures to support the development of a New Eden FPS. For those who don't buy all the arguments based on Boundless Optimism, maybe they will believe this one, solidly based in Boundless Pessimism. In a few years any spaceship game that does not offer a first person experience will be obsolete. I don't expect SC level design from CCP, I strongly doubt they've got 127 Million dollars to throw into the project lol. I just don't want another generic lobby shooter with an EVE skin, that's all. Flux it, I'M BATMAN! Also, swear filter doesn't work on signatures. I think it's related to Scotty.
DUST Fiend 18770	Posted - 2016.10.11 15:37:00 - [8] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: I don't expect SC levels either, in fact it's impossible to deliver that kind of combat without basically ripping EVE apart and that simply won't happen. However you also need to bear in mind that EVE players will be the primary targeted audience with Nova, and I'm a firm believer that EVE players would not be satisfied with the game unless it exhibited a similar level of depth and customization that EVE provides. I really doubt too many EVE players will take the time away from EVE to play a game that doesn't remotely resemble EVE. Making a game that directly competes with your primary source of income doesn't seem like the greatest bet to me. It would serve them far better to make Nova worthwhile to EVE players while they're still within EVE, through a stronger connection or even the arena matches we were teased with so long ago. Making an FPS to appease EVE players is just destined to fail. Making an FPS that draws people further into EVE, that feels like a better direction to take. Flux it, I'M BATMAN! Also, swear filter doesn't work on signatures. I think it's related to Scotty.
DUST Fiend 18770	Posted - 2016.10.11 15:50:00 - [9] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Except a Dust like game on PC is exactly like that. A EVE-like FPS that appeals to the kind of player that enjoy that style of system design. I'm not exactly sure how you can make a game that doesn't appease EVE players without it betraying the core elements that you yourself said are important. But you'll never have a spread sheet style FPS, and if you want to get good in this style of FPS, you have to commit a good amount of time. The more time you spend getting good at Nova, the less time you spend blowing up things in EVE. Even if Nova were the best thing ever for EVE players and made their spread sheet condoms fill with joy, it would just mean they'd move from EVE to Nova. It just seems odd to make your target audience one that's already invested in your primary game. Don't you want to expand the player base of both games, rather than dwindle one while helping to exclude the average gamer from the other? If the game is simplistic and easy to pick up, it will probably not appeal to EVE players. Yet, if it's as layered and complex as EVE, it will naturally push away the more average and casual player. I guess I just don't see the sense in primarily targeting EVE players, instead of giving EVE players a reason to invest EVE side. Flux it, I'M BATMAN! Also, swear filter doesn't work on signatures. I think it's related to Scotty.
DUST Fiend 18770	Posted - 2016.10.11 16:03:00 - [10] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: I guess I'm confused about what you want then. You seem to be implying you want to draw in players that normally would not be interested in EVE, but you're worried that the game won't have enough EVE-like elements and will be too mainstream...even though mainstream is what will draw in more non-EVE players. I'm just arguing against targeting EVE players primarily. If that's your target audience, you've set the bar very high and without a solid EVE link, will still likely just ** them off. This could have negative impacts on BOTH games, instead of just one. I've been pretty clear that all I really want out of Nova is the combined arms aspect and a stronger EVE link of some kind. I guess it just rubs me the wrong way to think that EVE players are the primary target audience when all they bothered to do was all over DUST the entire time it was alive, and likely won't have a whole lot of interest in anyways if it doesn't directly benefit them EVE side. Flux it, I'M BATMAN!** Also, swear filter doesn't work on signatures. I think it's related to Scotty.

DUST Fiend 18770	Posted - 2016.10.11 16:07:00 - [11] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: No, I expect CCP to cheat. Just have your EVE character jumpclone into a DUST clone (close EVE and open DUST2 in the background while you watch the latest Scope News broadcast) and then your EVE character is walking around in a dropsuit ready for some FPS action. You get to have FPS and Spaceships in the same game without having to go single shard and seamless. The whole Jumpclone technology of uploading your consciousness to the net and downloading into a new body really makes it easy since by definition it is not a seamless transition. I can sort of see the appeal to that but it seems like a ton of work to basically give your Nova character your EVE name. You're always in your dropsuit, and I could be wrong but I'm fairly certain DUST clones used an entirely different process of cloning than capsuleers. Wouldn't it just be easier to link your accounts so when you sign in you have the same name? None of your EVE skills or assets would apply so aside from RP, what would be the point in developing that tech? Flux it, I'M BATMAN! Also, swear filter doesn't work on signatures. I think it's related to Scotty.
DUST Fiend 18772	Posted - 2016.10.11 16:12:00 - [12] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: I won't disagree that end goal should be to pull players that are not involved in NewEden into the universe. That is s good plan and something that EVE has struggled with but an FPS has a better chance at. However, it also makes sense to seed your game initially with players you know will at the very least try the game out for a while, which are EVE players and Dust players with PCs. That being said of you don't develop the game in such a way that is Appealing to those groups, you lost the huge asset of having an existing playerbase...this is particularly important if they go with a F2P model since player count is critical to maintain games with that model. I guess I've just seen enough vitriol from EVE players towards DUST that I don't really trust them to do anything but try and drag the game down if they feel it draws away from EVE in any way. The game is going to start off without much of an EVE connection, so the first thing EVE players will experience is...not EVE? Just seems like a weird way to go about it. Naturally there will be crossover so at the end of the day this argument is moot, I just feel like if EVE players truly were the target audience, removing that EVE link is probably not the first thing you want them to experience. Flux it, I'M BATMAN! Also, swear filter doesn't work on signatures. I think it's related to Scotty.
DUST Fiend 18775	Posted - 2016.10.11 16:21:00 - [13] - Quote See this is part of why I don't mind making an ass of myself around here, at least it helps some of you smarter folks get discussing ideas :) The other reason is because it's basically like Team Rockets motto: I can't not do it. Flux it, I'M BATMAN! Also, swear filter doesn't work on signatures. I think it's related to Scotty.
DUST Fiend 18775	Posted - 2016.10.11 16:23:00 - [14] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: See this is part of why I don't mind making an ass of myself around here, at least it helps some of you smarter folks get discussing ideas :) The other reason is because it's basically like Team Rockets motto: I can't not do it. I love to hate you too. I have that effect on people, even myself Flux it, I'M BATMAN! Also, swear filter doesn't work on signatures. I think it's related to Scotty.
DUST Fiend 18775	Posted - 2016.10.11 16:56:00 - [15] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: I am confused though why you seem to think that Shanghai is only working on one game at a time though. Gunjack is a significantly smaller game being produced by a different team within Shanghai and has very little bearing on the work being done on Nova. How can you be confused that CCP shattered the trust of many DUST players? At least he's quiet about it. Really we just have to put all this talk behind us until one day CCP does or does not release real, meaningful, tangible information on a sequel. I can't speak for him or anyone else but it just seems like many here would rather entirely forget about DUST or just hold onto the memories than speculate on what's still just a maybe. Flux it, I'M BATMAN! Also, swear filter doesn't work on signatures. I think it's related to Scotty.
DUST Fiend 18775	Posted - 2016.10.11 17:13:00 - [16] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: More confused about the lack of understanding of how development studios work. Especially since there is quite a bit of communication about the development of Nova scattered about on the forums, Skype, discord ect. It's probably just a lack of faith in their management. Legion was "being developed". DUST was "being developed". WoD was "being developed". And really? "Quite a bit of info" Really? .... Reeeaaaaallllyyyyy? Flux it, I'M BATMAN! Also, swear filter doesn't work on signatures. I think it's related to Scotty.
DUST Fiend 18775	Posted - 2016.10.11 17:20:00 - [17] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: I guess you don't talk to the same people I do. I guess maybe CCP should make their "info" more readily available instead of giving it to randoms to lord over others with. Anywho, I feel that this is my tipping point in this thread so I will casually crash through the wall opposite to the one I entered. Good day. Flux it, I'M BATMAN! Also, swear filter doesn't work on signatures. I think it's related to Scotty.
DUST Fiend 18783	Posted - 2016.10.11 22:30:00 - [18] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: More confused about the lack of understanding of how development studios work. Especially since there is quite a bit of communication about the development of Nova scattered about on the forums, Skype, discord ect. It's probably just a lack of faith in their management. Legion was "being developed". DUST was "being developed". WoD was "being developed". And really? "Quite a bit of info" Really? .... Reeeaaaaallllyyyyy? Actually we were given vastly more information on Project Nova than all of the previous projects that never saw the light of day (WoD & Legion) combined. At least with Nova Fanfest attendees were given a functional game to try out that was run on Steam via a server located in Germany with the game played online in Iceland. CCP could have just stuck to making it a local LAN party but instead they went further than that. We also know who is working on the maps (CCP LogicLoop), who is the executive producer for Nova (CCP Rattati), we know that the game has a new weapon we never saw before (Minmatar Precision Rifle), we know which engine it's being developed on (Unreal Engine 4) which is what everyone on the forums was asking CCP to do in the first place, we know it's very likely going to be on Steam given how the demo worked at Fanfest 2016, and CCP LogicLoop even gave us a glimpse of what his new map might look like on twitter (I'll be honest here, it was a rough pen sketch on a napkin) and that was during his first week since his return to CCP as Senior Level Designer. DUST Fiend has taken his meds. Feels like marshmallow. Even though I stated earlier that I don't expect SC level design from CCP, I suppose I've gotten comfortable with that style of transparency. It makes me cozy inside watching devs do dev work. Mellow fiend, jigglin awaaayy Flux it, I'M BATMAN! Also, swear filter doesn't work on signatures. I think it's related to Scotty.