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Mobius Wyvern
Fatal Absolution
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
7
   |
Posted - 2015.12.12 00:49:00 -
[31] - Quote
Devadander wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:Devadander wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:Devadander wrote:[Lots of quotes]
This is the kind of honest reality I was hoping to see in this thread.
By all means, make it pc/ps4. Just don't put us in the same battles..
That would completely ruin the game though. One Universe. One War. That's the foundation this game is built on, and is essential to it being part of New Eden. I don't see it. If pc/ps4 were allowed in same chat channels, it would be as one universe as we are now... You've seen my example of territorial conflict right? If not, imagine being unable to take a planet because the people on it are on another platform. The game needs to either be fully cross-play or not at all. You have lost me... All I can gather from this tree is that it HAS to be ps4 only. If you are talking about eve taking planets, and dust affecting that, it already happens to a minor degree. And we are on another platform. If you mean, we get it on pc/ps4 together, and the pc players CHEAT a system into being untakable. I believe that's what this whole thread is about... The dangers of a pc dust vs a ps4. So ... Huh?
I'm talking about if you separate the communities.
Say if in Planetary Conquest you want to take a planet, but since you're on PS4 and the owners are on PC, you can't fight them at all and have to go elsewhere.
As another example imagine that you have a team of PC players who want to defend a Caldari system from Gallente players, but all the Gallente players are on PS4s. You'd have to just watch helplessly as they take it, or try and get a PS4 team together to fight them, in which case you have to miss out on the fight while other players do it for you.
Whichever platform had more users in Dust would gradually make playing on the minority platform frustrating and maybe even impossible.
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
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Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
1
|
Posted - 2015.12.12 00:54:00 -
[32] - Quote
I getcha there. That makes sense. But when you said it needs to be fully cross play or not at all.. You mean a mixed pool?
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
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Mobius Wyvern
Fatal Absolution
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
7
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Posted - 2015.12.12 01:45:00 -
[33] - Quote
Devadander wrote:I getcha there. That makes sense. But when you said it needs to be fully cross play or not at all.. You mean a mixed pool?
Yes. The ability to fight anyone regardless of location on the planet is the most central feature of EVE Online.
The same must be true of Dust and platform played on.
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
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Bri Bub
Dead TOOMEY
381
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Posted - 2015.12.12 02:00:00 -
[34] - Quote
There is a lot of good input in this thread and I don't disagree with Mobius but... We have a similar issue with PC timers mows where folks on the other side of the world are nearly untouchable unless you upset your RL schedule to try to unseat them... One way to address that is to try to make your Corp as international as possible with members from all time zones... Stands to reason that you would want your Corp to includes PS4 users and PC users so that you cannot be shut out of any districts...
But btw, I want the next platform to be PS4... Good topic though, good read... o7
Be just and if you can't be just be arbitrary.
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Mobius Wyvern
Fatal Absolution
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
7
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Posted - 2015.12.12 02:37:00 -
[35] - Quote
Bri Bub wrote:There is a lot of good input in this thread and I don't disagree with Mobius but... We have a similar issue with PC timers mows where folks on the other side of the world are nearly untouchable unless you upset your RL schedule to try to unseat them... One way to address that is to try to make your Corp as international as possible with members from all time zones... Stands to reason that you would want your Corp to includes PS4 users and PC users so that you cannot be shut out of any districts...
But btw, I want the next platform to be PS4... Good topic though, good read... o7
This is actually part of what CCP sought to address in EVE via the new structures coming out next year. They have weekly vulnerability times that can be allocated as the owner wishes, but larger structures with larger influence have more time.
The XL Citadels structures have a mandatory 21 hours of time per week, so 3 hours per day, or you can allocate them in longer periods to generate rights and thus content for your members.
A similar system might work for Dust. Provide more incentive to set longer windows on days when you have more people online, like the weekends.
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
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deezy dabest
IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP
Evil Syndicate Alliance.
4
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Posted - 2015.12.12 02:41:00 -
[36] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:That issue is Cheating.
Now I'm not trying to start a debate over platform. I'm going to invoke #portDust514 in the hopes that we maintain civility and discuss the issue objectively.
What I want is to hear your ideas for countering the cheating issue that remains in many PC games, and possibly even your personal experiences with it.
I wanted to make a thread about this because of a lengthy discussion I had with Cat Merc on how Valve-Anti-Cheat and the Overwatch system work on Counter Strike: Global Offensive. He informed me that despite the lengths they've gone to, it has only reduced the population of cheaters, and that they are still a reality of playing the game.
So what are your thoughts on this or potential solutions? If the game released on PC or on both platforms, how would you attempt to combat this issue?
Security these days is not all that difficult unless you are one of the biggest games which people can make tons of money selling the exploit.
A simple check sum of necessary files which is passed to the game server at random intervals invoking an auto update that replaces unmatching files is going to lock things down pretty tight. This MUST be passed to the same IP or domain name as the game server to prevent dns level redirects to make people able to emulate validation responses. Any check sum which does not get a server response in X amount of times invoke an update.
If you wanted to go super crazy you could actually use the check sum as the key and encrypt all commands sent to the server meaning an incorrect check sum would cause the server to be unable to read the commands and respond with an update command.
Basically at that point you are only looking for stopping lag switchers which can be monitored through time stamping packet sends and constantly monitoring deviations that indicate such a thing. Handling of those who are found to be lag switching or attempting to modify packets is something that has unlimited possibilities.
Show there is a future #CCPSpeakOn514
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jordy mack
WarRavens
Imperium Eden
992
|
Posted - 2015.12.12 02:42:00 -
[37] - Quote
in regards to cheating.
eve/dust requires time to skill into stuff.
so ppl would have alot more hard work to lose if caught cheating.
on the flip side if u make a new char to cheat with, it's going to be pretty weak without any time invested.
just a thought.
Less QQ more PewPew
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Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
1
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Posted - 2015.12.12 04:14:00 -
[38] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Devadander wrote:I getcha there. That makes sense. But when you said it needs to be fully cross play or not at all.. You mean a mixed pool? Yes. The ability to fight anyone regardless of location on the planet is the most central feature of EVE Online. The same must be true of Dust and platform played on.
Ah, then I must be strictly ps4 from now on.
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
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Mobius Wyvern
Fatal Absolution
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
7
|
Posted - 2015.12.12 04:36:00 -
[39] - Quote
Devadander wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:Devadander wrote:I getcha there. That makes sense. But when you said it needs to be fully cross play or not at all.. You mean a mixed pool? Yes. The ability to fight anyone regardless of location on the planet is the most central feature of EVE Online. The same must be true of Dust and platform played on. Ah, then I must be strictly ps4 from now on.
Well the idea is to brainstorm a way to solve the cheating issue so both groups can play together.
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
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Thaddeus Reynolds
Facepunch Security
571
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Posted - 2015.12.12 05:13:00 -
[40] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Devadander wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:Devadander wrote:I getcha there. That makes sense. But when you said it needs to be fully cross play or not at all.. You mean a mixed pool? Yes. The ability to fight anyone regardless of location on the planet is the most central feature of EVE Online. The same must be true of Dust and platform played on. Ah, then I must be strictly ps4 from now on. Well the idea is to brainstorm a way to solve the cheating issue so both groups can play together.
Cheating can and will be a problem on any platform, it's something that has to be addressed, and with the newest consoles being x86 based, the problem is only going to escalate for them, while remaining relatively stable on the PC side of things. Obvious cheats and reports can be handled retro-actively by GMs...CCP has done some amazing things in this way on the exploitation side of things (not just with the jobs example...but there have been some other issues such as the WH system Nova back in the day).
As for automatically identifying and banning players who cheat...that is only limited by the imaginations of the developers and how well they anticipate possible exploits in the game (Things such as kicking players with textures that have failed to load by going through similar data like an Aim-Bot program would and seeing if everything is as it should be). Traditional methods of looking for aimbots automatically can punish the occasional extremely high-skilled player, so this one is a bit harder to work with on an automated system...perhaps a system to flag them as a possible suspect to record gameplay from their perspective (Similar to the CS:GO system discussed earlier in the thread) for GM review (or player review).
Other systems could involve looking through active processes running on a given computer (although many, myself included, would consider this an unreasonable violation of privacy)...but it is an option, however there are easy workarounds to such methods (Such as VMs)
Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper.
#PortDust514 ...Preferably to both PS4 and PC
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Freshbrood Clan Strife
The First Sons
9
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Posted - 2015.12.12 05:37:00 -
[41] - Quote
Devadander wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Unfortunately, the reality is cheaters infest all of the gaming platforms.
Just on Destiny on PS4 I have been repatedly subjected to lag switching, Invulnerability mode, infinite super spam and all sorts of things enabled by people utilizing custom firmware rigged to bypass Sony and game company anti-cheating measures, especially during competitive events like Trials of Osiris and Iron Banner.
Complaining about one platform having cheating f**ks, and not acknowledging them on the other is, in my opinion, disingenuous. Every time we bring up the possibility of people cheating on dust, its always "OPE NOPE, YOU CANT CHEAT ON DUST!" But when you are winning, then lag starts, and all of a sudden you are five capped...
This/\
And obviously people have figured out how to cheat on Dust. Just about a month ago when I was killed by a red, instead of showing me what his stats were, with suit and equipment, it was completely devoid of text, and the icon that normally shows a dropsuit had a rainbow graphic that had the letters .jpg across it.
I've also encountered players who seem acutely aware that they are invincible, as they just calmly sit there as you unload on them, doing no damage.
And about console vs. pc, I will say this:
I have heard the devs speaking in game while playing, and I'm aware that they only seem to play on pc using a mouse.
Perhaps this is exactly why there are so many bugs on the PS3.
Either they are not aware of all the various bugs because they neglect the console, or they simply don't care because it's future only lies on pc. If it has a future.
Who's the meanest, who's the prettiest, who's the baddest mofo low down around this town?
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deezy dabest
IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP
Evil Syndicate Alliance.
4
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Posted - 2015.12.12 05:55:00 -
[42] - Quote
You do realize that cheating is not the reason that cross play is a just plain bad idea right?
PCs can run as high as 240 frames per second on high end rigs. This is only limited by screens which keep getting a higher and higher refresh rate. The PS4 is not even able to run 1080p @ 60hz meaning a PC player has roughly double the tracking ability just from a hardware stand point. The human eye is the only thing not making it 4x better and growing.
Mouse and keyboard has precision that absolutely DUMPS on even the DS4. Controllers are simply not made for precicion that is why console shooters have to have aim assist to fill in the finer points. They could not even balance m/kb with controller on the same system.
The team would be split. A PC version would be held back by PS4 limitations and then there would have to be a whole other team that is in place just to optimize code across thousands of possible hardware configurations for PC. The sheer time between updates this would cause is just plain ridiculous. Instead we could have a team twice the size pumping out updates at a much higher rate for one platform.
Ultimately one side is going to end up with a huge advantage and the losing side is going to migrate to the winning side leading to a total waste of resources and ultimately a loss of money that is totally not necessary.
Show there is a future #CCPSpeakOn514
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Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
6
|
Posted - 2015.12.12 06:11:00 -
[43] - Quote
jordy mack wrote:in regards to cheating.
eve/dust requires time to skill into stuff.
so ppl would have alot more hard work to lose if caught cheating.
on the flip side if u make a new char to cheat with, it's going to be pretty weak without any time invested.
just a thought.
There are two kinds of cheaters in persistent F2P games. The first is the kind who uses things like aimbots or wallhacks, but does so at a lower setting or in a very subtle manner. This makes it so even when someone is watching a recording of him remotely, it isn't obvious. It's just like getting a slightly stickier aim assist, but its definitely cheating. This guy is in it for the long haul, and he does everything he can to make sure people don't suspect him.
The other kind of cheater is the kind who is just there to grief. He is the type who will be scoring headshots from across the map while spinning in circles. This guy doesn't build a character for persistent play. He logs in, ruins everyones day, gets banned, and makes another character. Persistence has no meaning for him, only pissing other people off. This is the one you always notice.
Both of these types are very common, and both types require a dedicated large team to rooting out and providing counter-measures against. CCP does not have that kind of manpower, especially not for Dust. And for that reason PC is simply not an option, at all, period.
The last time I asked CCP about this, Saberwing told me that they were aware of the issues regarding PC F2P FPS and hacking. He did not have an answer for the problem, however, and said he would poke Rouge for one. Time has passed and I'm sure the current team still has no answer for it because aside from a large amount of manpower, there isn't one.
This is a positive and endearing message brought to you by Himi.
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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop
Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2015.12.12 07:46:00 -
[44] - Quote
This is the first largely sensible thread on the risks, realities and mechanics of hacks/bots on console vs. PC in three years on these forums.
Thanks to Mobius for a good OP and to Cat Merc, Himiko, Devander, whitedevil & deezy for bringing the light.
First, cheating only matters if futureDust is connected to EVE, imo. Who cares about cheating in a meaningless standalone game that shares the IP buy nothing else? Not me.
So let's assume futureDust is connected to EVE in some meaningful way, and that the outcomes of Dust battles have ramifications for EVE.
One critical difference between Dust and EVE is the lobby shooter structure of Dust: closed lobby matches magnify the repercussions to EVE of cheating in Dust, where ownership can hinge on a single match. With repercussions of district/planetary ownership cascading into EVE, lobby matches act as an amplifier to the results achieved by employing cheats in Dust.
Reversing the tactical, strategic and political damage done to EVE via hacks in Dust would be impossible for CCP. To cut the argument short, i believe it comes down to this: if futureDust is hackable, the EVE entities that could potentially bring meaning to Dust will instead look upon this game as poison and avoid interaction with us completely. If they can't avoid interaction they will riot and force CCP to sever the connections between the two games and we'll be back to living lives of epic insignificance so far as New Eden is concerned.
One last step in the logical chain brings us to the PS4 and only the PS4, if we want Dust to have relevance to EVE.
Developing on PC makes sense for many reasons, but once the game is playing as it should its sole and final destination must be the PS4. Developing on PC we'd have more than enough time to become well and truly sick of the hacks we'd be subjected to through the development period, making the need to transition to PS4 glaringly obvious to the entire player population.
PSN: RationalSpark
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Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
6
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Posted - 2015.12.12 08:12:00 -
[45] - Quote
I think its a little sad that the only value we seem to place on the integrity of Dust is its potential connection to EVE.
Granted, the current game sucks, but if we're talking about a theoretical version one might at least attempt to give it the benefit of the doubt as to being good enough you might not want it ruined by hackers lol.
I can tell you, connection to EVE or not, I certainly wouldn't want people cheating against me in Planetary Conquest or anywhere else. If I lost a district to a hacker, I'd be pissed. If CCP wouldn't rule against him, I'd probably peace out and take as many people with me as I could. That kind of situation is toxic.
This is a positive and endearing message brought to you by Himi.
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deezy dabest
IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP
Evil Syndicate Alliance.
4
|
Posted - 2015.12.12 08:15:00 -
[46] - Quote
Vrain Matari wrote:
One last step in the logical chain brings us to the PS4 and only the PS4, if we want Dust to have relevance to EVE.
Developing on PC makes sense for many reasons, but once the game is playing as it should its sole and final destination must be the PS4. Developing on PC we'd have more than enough time to become well and truly sick of the hacks we'd be subjected to through the development period, making the need to transition to PS4 glaringly obvious to the entire player population.
Honestly there is no reason at all to develop on PC and then move to PS4.
Sony put a load of work into making the PS4 nothing more than a uniform PC. This was done basically at the request of developers who complained and complained about the PS3 being the hardest console ever developed for.
What this ultimately means is that developing for the PS4 is FAR easier than for PC thanks to it being a uniform system across the board. Thanks to not having to optimize for thousands of hardware configurations the process is much smoother.
Show there is a future #CCPSpeakOn514
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deezy dabest
IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP
Evil Syndicate Alliance.
4
|
Posted - 2015.12.12 08:17:00 -
[47] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:I think its a little sad that the only value we seem to place on the integrity of Dust is its potential connection to EVE.
Granted, the current game sucks, but if we're talking about a theoretical version one might at least attempt to give it the benefit of the doubt as to being good enough you might not want it ruined by hackers lol.
I can tell you, connection to EVE or not, I certainly wouldn't want people cheating against me in PC or anywhere else. If I lost a district to a hacker, I'd be pissed. If CCP wouldn't rule against him, I'd probably peace out and take as many people with me as I could. That kind of thing is toxic.
I don't think anyone is placing the value of Dust solely on an Eve connection but instead hoping to realize the vision which was promised years ago
Show there is a future #CCPSpeakOn514
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Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
6
|
Posted - 2015.12.12 08:19:00 -
[48] - Quote
At this stage I feel like developing for the PC would only happen because CCP jumped the gun and said they would develop it for the PC during that fanfest announcement. In other words, it's a well and truly horrible idea but I could see it happening due to pride and embarrassment of not wanting to flip-flop twice. I REALLY hope that isn't the case.
Digging that hole deeper serves no one.
This is a positive and endearing message brought to you by Himi.
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Jathniel
Shining Flame
Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2015.12.12 09:21:00 -
[49] - Quote
It's important that we don't exaggerate the problem of cheating on PC.
There is cheating in BF4.
There is cheating in CS:GO.
Hell, there is cheating in the new Battlefront.
But all of those games are still both fun AND successful.
So let's stop with the misleading (and totally unrealistic) notion that cheaters have somehow ruined FPS on PC. That is totally dishonest, and takes the thread in the direction that the OP does NOT want it to go.
The question is do you think CCP is so incompetent so as to relegate Dust to a fate like the game "Combat Arms" (a truly ****** game), or do you think CCP would actually have the sense to implement some decent cheating mitigation policies?
CCP has a phenomenal record with cracking down on bullshit with EVE, and with Dust, the outcome will be the same. The penalties will be way too harsh for cheaters in Dust.
And when someone enjoys being a cheater or a griefer, the one thing they hate is being ignored or permanently locked out.
Google how cracking EVE has been handled in the past. They WILL destroy you, and banish you to Gehenna for it.
From a realistic standpoint, the issue isn't about whether FPS are fun on PC (because they're totally at their best on PC); it's about how badly potential cheating will hurt Dust's experience.
Cheating can be easily ignored or dealt with in other FPS, because the element of loss is so low. In Dust, the element is so high, a griefer couldn't possibly resist the chance to make people cry.
Thus mitigating the problem would involve numerous processes:
1. Preventative scripts/software.
2. Heavy client logging to catch you if you bypass prevention (already implemented in EVE).
3. Permanent IP banning.
4. Public match earning modifications.
The first 3 will have to be very carefully offset with number 4: isk earnings in public matches will have to be increased, because pubs are where cheaters would spring up the most, with the least chance of penalty. This way if the cheater isn't caught, there's nothing too much to worry about. Your wallet is partially insured, a death or two. This gives you the time to determine the situation as foul, or legit. And choose to stay in the match or leave, accordingly.
Cheating will by no means effect Planetary Conquest. There is too much scrutiny, too many witnesses, active recording, and heavy monitoring. Enter into planetary conquest and cheat? Good job getting your main character banned.
That's all you have to worry about. Cheating can be mitigated against easily enough for Dust.
It will not, and CANNOT break the game, with a few common sense precautions. CCP's track record indicates this to be the case. |
ANON Cerberus
TerranProtossZerg
954
|
Posted - 2015.12.12 09:57:00 -
[50] - Quote
If by PC you mean Personal Computers and not Planetary conquest.... I always find it amusing how people assume PC gaming is full of cheaters.
I will use my own anecdotal evidence about FPS games I have played over time.
Battlefield 2 / BF 2142 - I played these games for many years on and off from about 2005 onwards... Never personally encountered any cheaters.
Call of Duty 4 (The first Modern warfare) - I played this game on PC for well over a year and did not encounter cheaters once.
Bad company 2 - Used to love this game a hell of a lot on PC and again in my years of playing never once saw anyone cheating.
Battlefield 3 / 4 - I have saw a handful of cheaters in my time playing the more later Battlefields I would say maybe 4-6 incidents over the course of 2 years or more. Each and every time they were kicked or banned by Punkbuster. (Yes aim-botting was very annoying)
TLDR - Cheating is really not as prevalent in PC gaming as some would suggest. Any decent game worth its salt has many counters to cheating such as punkbuster etc...
Now let me compare that with my 2-3 years of playing DUST 514 :
Cloaking cheat glitch - Remember when a certain corp would abuse the cloaked cheat glitch? There were a small group of players that abused the shooting while cloaked glitch for quite some time. How about the Melee cheat that became famous with certain prolific DUSTers?
I have saw more cheating in DUST than I have ever saw in PC gaming - Just my personal experience. |
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
12
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Posted - 2015.12.12 10:11:00 -
[51] - Quote
xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:
There's no custom firmware for ps4- the infinite super spam is a game glitch, not a hack itself and the lagswich, well, you can usually deal with it by simply not allowing a player to be the host and not allowing client side hit detection.
My ass there isn't custom firmware for the PS4.
I found a custom firmware development site and community specifically designed for the PS4, and they were all bitching that Bungie banhammers are fast, furious and seemingly without rhyme or reason. But they had hack kits for distribution to allow everything from aimbots to invulnerable mode. They get away with the crap for periods at a time because Bungie does ban waves, rather than on-the-spot killshots.
I found all of this while investigating rumors of a PS3 emulation kit that could run DUST (it couldn't) and other sites dedicated to making PS3 games available on PCs (they can't except for the most simplistic games on the market. Anything with 3-D rendering torches itself).
So please, tell me again how there's no custom firmware for the PS4.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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xxwhitedevilxx M
Maphia Clan Corporation
3
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Posted - 2015.12.12 13:18:00 -
[52] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:
There's no custom firmware for ps4- the infinite super spam is a game glitch, not a hack itself and the lagswich, well, you can usually deal with it by simply not allowing a player to be the host and not allowing client side hit detection.
My ass there isn't custom firmware for the PS4. I found a custom firmware development site and community specifically designed for the PS4, and they were all bitching that Bungie banhammers are fast, furious and seemingly without rhyme or reason. But they had hack kits for distribution to allow everything from aimbots to invulnerable mode. They get away with the crap for periods at a time because Bungie does ban waves, rather than on-the-spot killshots. I found all of this while investigating rumors of a PS3 emulation kit that could run DUST (it couldn't) and other sites dedicated to making PS3 games available on PCs (they can't except for the most simplistic games on the market. Anything with 3-D rendering torches itself). So please, tell me again how there's no custom firmware for the PS4.
Well, there is a group of people (as always) trying to, but as far as I know there's still nothing fully working on ps4. There is a way to copy some already activated games on your console, but needless to say, you can't update your firmware hence, you cannot play online. See, this is the only good thing about a closed system such as consoles: every little change to the hardware is easily recognizable and trackable and that's why you will never see as many console hacks as PC hacks.
Although, it is indeed true that there will be something to hack a game on ps4, it's also true that it will not be as widespread and easy to do as on PC.
Afaik, there are various custom firmwares for ps3, one of them actually allows you to go online but still you should do that really carefully because developers ban hammers are very different that SEN ban hammers, which can actually ban a console.
I'm not sure I can link any source here, I fear I cannot.
take time or take aurums (Gò»#-_-)Gò»~~~GòºGòÉGòº [FSTNM SCDNM]
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Mobius Wyvern
Fatal Absolution
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
7
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Posted - 2015.12.12 13:59:00 -
[53] - Quote
deezy dabest wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:I think its a little sad that the only value we seem to place on the integrity of Dust is its potential connection to EVE.
Granted, the current game sucks, but if we're talking about a theoretical version one might at least attempt to give it the benefit of the doubt as to being good enough you might not want it ruined by hackers lol.
I can tell you, connection to EVE or not, I certainly wouldn't want people cheating against me in PC or anywhere else. If I lost a district to a hacker, I'd be pissed. If CCP wouldn't rule against him, I'd probably peace out and take as many people with me as I could. That kind of thing is toxic. I don't think anyone is placing the value of Dust solely on an Eve connection but instead hoping to realize the vision which was promised years ago
Part of that vision is "One Universe. One War".
If this game doesn't follow the same single-shard (everyone on one server and everyone can interact with everyone else) philosophy that EVE Online does, how does it deserve to be associated at all?
Hell, what's even the point of playing it? This game wasn't designed as a standalone like EVE: Valkyrie, and CCP Guard even responded to a thread on the EVE Forums saying that Valkyrie integration into EVE Online "isn't off the table" but that they aren't pursuing it at all right now because they just want to make a cool game.
EVE Valkyrie was built from the start to be a standalone with no influence on the EVE universe.
Dust 514, however, was built from the start to be a part of New Eden and have an effect on EVE Online through many means. If you take that away what's left of the original vision?
I realize quoting like this makes it seem like I'm arguing with the last person who posted, but I just wanted to lay out part of why we keep discussing the EVE link as far as the future of this game.
I mean, let's be real here: if this was just some random free-to-play game made by a new company none of us had ever heard of and had no link at all to New Eden, most of us would have played one match and then uninstalled it.
We're here because of the universe this game allows us to be part of to a limited extent, and those of us that remain are here because we still hope to see the full vision from back in 2009 realized.
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
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Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
6
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Posted - 2015.12.12 18:58:00 -
[54] - Quote
I don't see how the original vision is pertinent to whether or not Dust should be on PC.
If hacking is an issue its an issue regardless of its original vision.
And you would play the game because it should, theoretically, be a good game. If it isn't, then that's the reason not to play it. But a game being good or not doesn't hinge on whether or not its fully connected to another game. That just makes it better. It's never been the heart of this game, it's always been a gimmick.
But this is all rather moot because at the very minimum, the link exists. It works and so long as Dust isn't killed off it isn't going anywhere.
This is a positive and endearing message brought to you by Himi.
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DUST Fiend
17
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Posted - 2015.12.12 19:42:00 -
[55] - Quote
Mortishai Belmont wrote:First off a "#" does nothing on here
Untrue
Search crawlers will pull up that exact phrase so it's more likely the thread will pop up in a search engine if anyone decides to search said hashtag.
I am a beautiful space manatee, flying through the sky with the greatest of ease
Swarms everywhere.
WoD 514
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Mobius Wyvern
Fatal Absolution
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
7
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Posted - 2015.12.12 23:23:00 -
[56] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Mortishai Belmont wrote:First off a "#" does nothing on here Untrue Search crawlers will pull up that exact phrase so it's more likely the thread will pop up in a search engine if anyone decides to search said hashtag.
Yeah, that's why I've been putting the pound sign on the front whenever I talk about it.
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
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Mobius Wyvern
Fatal Absolution
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
7
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Posted - 2015.12.13 14:29:00 -
[57] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:I don't see how the original vision is pertinent to whether or not Dust should be on PC.
If hacking is an issue its an issue regardless of its original vision.
And you would play the game because it should, theoretically, be a good game. If it isn't, then that's the reason not to play it. But a game being good or not doesn't hinge on whether or not its fully connected to another game. That just makes it better. It's never been the heart of this game, it's always been a gimmick.
But this is all rather moot because at the very minimum, the link exists. It works and so long as Dust isn't killed off it isn't going anywhere.
The link is what attracted most of the early players to this game, is what I'm saying.
You remember how hyped people got about playing when they showed that live orbital strike back in 2012? The first time CCP actually showed one on the EVE test server there were hundreds of us all gathered over that District just to watch the strike.
Hell, I even got a video of it.
That and the promise of steadily increasing player counts brought a lot of us. Hell, most of the MAG community came over because they were hoping they'd one day get the 256 player battles they missed from their old game back again.
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
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Freshbrood Clan Strife
The First Sons
12
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Posted - 2015.12.14 02:18:00 -
[58] - Quote
deezy dabest wrote:You do realize that cheating is not the reason that cross play is a just plain bad idea right?
PCs can run as high as 240 frames per second on high end rigs. This is only limited by screens which keep getting a higher and higher refresh rate. The PS4 is not even able to run 1080p @ 60hz meaning a PC player has roughly double the tracking ability just from a hardware stand point. The human eye is the only thing not making it 4x better and growing.
Mouse and keyboard has precision that absolutely DUMPS on even the DS4. Controllers are simply not made for precicion that is why console shooters have to have aim assist to fill in the finer points. They could not even balance m/kb with controller on the same system.
The team would be split. A PC version would be held back by PS4 limitations and then there would have to be a whole other team that is in place just to optimize code across thousands of possible hardware configurations for PC. The sheer time between updates this would cause is just plain ridiculous. Instead we could have a team twice the size pumping out updates at a much higher rate for one platform.
Ultimately one side is going to end up with a huge advantage and the losing side is going to migrate to the winning side leading to a total waste of resources and ultimately a loss of money that is totally not necessary.
Why do the graphics need to look equally pretty across all systems? The do not!
Just because you cross port it doesn't mean all systems need to display the same resolutions. -So that is a mute point. I intentionally lower my resolution just to avoid lag and get better performance. I don't need to hear my character breathing or see the glowing embers in the air to enjoy the game.
As far as the mouse/controller thing, again- as a hobby programmer myself, you're wrong.
The issue isn't about mouse/controller superiority, it's about lazy programing. I can tell by the way the glitches happen that they haven't written a separate but dedicated code to read controller inputs- what they've done is map the controller to the mouse buttons, essentially emulating it.
That is why it's so glitchy. It's simply lazy programming.
Who's the meanest, who's the prettiest, who's the baddest mofo low down around this town?
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
21
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Posted - 2015.12.14 02:28:00 -
[59] - Quote
Devadander wrote:
If you are talking about eve taking planets, and dust affecting that, it already happens to a minor degree. And we are on another platform.
First of all no it doesn't and secondly you have no idea how much of a nuisance we are to EVE players.... its's not even funny sometimes.
Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
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DEATH THE KlD
Imperfect - Bastards
957
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Posted - 2015.12.14 03:10:00 -
[60] - Quote
I would prefer dust on PC but hey if they want to go ps4 then I have no complaints
Just get it off the damn PS3
CEO of Imperfect Bastards and NF -Heimdallr69
Steam - Heimpai
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