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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
18
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Posted - 2015.12.03 16:18:00 -
[61] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:"... feedback that people present constructively ..."
* Dial back slightly the buff to GA Assault RoF
* Dial back slightly the buffs to Assault base shield stats
* Add mobility penalties to Ferroscale Plates
* Increase mobility penalties to Reactive Plates
* Increase mobility penalties to Armor Plates when equipped by non-heavy frames
^ Puts the brakes on power creep. Fixes Himiko's balance problem without creating new balance problems.
* Sentinel Buffs
^ Moar power creep rolls the snowball downhill. Fixes Himiko's balance problem, but in doing so creates new balance problems.
Free constructive feedback. Take it or leave it, but don't say I'm not helpful :-)
Dropsuit Usage Rates
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Powerh8er
Blood Hammer.
953
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Posted - 2015.12.03 16:37:00 -
[62] - Quote
The hmg functions more like a shotgun than a machine gun, which doesnt compliment the slow heavy much, except for personal protection, which basically is how the hmg heavies gets most of his kills, by protecting himself.
I personally would gladly accept lower dps or even movement speed for longer range and better dispersion. The assault hmg rework was a step in the right direction though, making the heavies somewhat more versatile.
And you will know me by the trail of vomit.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
12
|
Posted - 2015.12.03 16:54:00 -
[63] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:"... feedback that people present constructively ..." * Dial back slightly the buff to GA Assault RoF
* Dial back slightly the buffs to Assault base shield stats
* Add mobility penalties to Ferroscale Plates
* Increase mobility penalties to Reactive Plates
* Increase mobility penalties to Armor Plates when equipped by non-heavy frames^ Puts the brakes on power creep. Fixes Himiko's balance problem without creating new balance problems.
* Sentinel Buffs ^ Moar power creep rolls the snowball downhill. Fixes Himiko's balance problem, but in doing so creates new balance problems.
Free constructive feedback. Take it or leave it, but don't say I'm not helpful :-) As for assuming things, what else are we to do? We don't hear from Rattati these days, and you CPM guys don't give us much to work with. We're in the dark. Speculation is our only option.
How is it that today you are the scout who is pissing me off the least?
A:being straightforward.
B:getting to the goddamn point
C:not being a condescending ass
WHO ARE YOU AND WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH ADIPEM???
On a serious note I'm not considering more than very incremental and small adjustments to the HMG like maybe put it back to 30m as an initial adjustment and see what happens. The DPS is fine. If you can hit and the hit detection gods favor you.
Sentinels are at best looking at very small tweaks as my recommendations just because if we go back to where we started I will lose my gorram mind. It would be no different than making it so you could shoot from cloak again.
Sweeping adjustments to anything are off the table for me to recommend. One of the things I'm going to recommend to help new scouts is just making the cloak a flat 75% reduction. Past that going to see what can be done for the amscout.
I am not touching the assaults until the actual K/s ratios are released, and I will go from there.
And thank you adipem for just being fcking straightforward. You have no idea how much I am willing to listen to people who do just that. People who try condescending, clever word games will be flat out ignored.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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PARKOUR PRACTIONER
L0RDS 0F LEGI0N
Damage LLC
4
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Posted - 2015.12.03 17:07:00 -
[64] - Quote
No Shotty, leave the ferros & reactives alone. It's supposed to be a lightweight armor type, reactives have a penalty already, ferros don't but you sacrifice regen for a little buff that wont slow you down. As a GS that uses both I'm probably just bias.
I don't see anything wrong with the shield buff being cal assault, they do there job better now. GA nerf? IDK most GAs (that ive seen) just put a ARR on it anyway. Doesn't mean it doesn't need a nerf but the point of the buff was to encourage using the bonus/many said suit was UP.
If you buff or nerf anything too much the rock-paper-scissors won't apply, not sure what would happen if they stayed as is either.
Easing from passive to aggressive player
MS & GS, CA, CM, GM, MA, GS, Kampo Logi AKA I is the sun yo
/Z)/V//V
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Cesar Geronimo
DUST University
Ivy League
170
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Posted - 2015.12.03 17:53:00 -
[65] - Quote
CaP XZ wrote:
Think of solo/pub play as well; scouts do need E-war capabilities and heavies do need some speed. Maybe a bonus tweak
I dunno... Does the Min fattie really need to be quicker?? |
Ghost Kaisar
Fatal Absolution
14
|
Posted - 2015.12.03 18:16:00 -
[66] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Ghost Kaisar wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Came expecting trolking and rants.
Floored.
Carry on. Reading carefully. Taking notes. I mean, if you want your fill. CPM2 recognizes that some of you Scouts might be upset by the recent news that the recon and counter-recon functions you were waiting to be improved upon for the past year have instead been stripped away from Scouts and gifted to Logis. And then improved upon. We understand how some of you might find this disappointing. Maybe even shocking. We would've told you a long time ago that this is what CPM planned to do, but NDA. Believe it or not, we've actually been looking out for Scouts this whole time, which is why we planned in advance a very clever way to counteract any potential bad feelings you guys might experience while we take away one of the few things your class has left to work with. Some time back, we asked ourselves what might get you guys super excited but still keep Scouts "balanced" (:: chuckle ::). We're pleased to announce that we figured it out pretty much on our own, and then we put those Devs to work on something huge, just for you! We know you're going to be excited ... Behold! An ever-so-slightly less crappy cloak. It's true! Exactly what you guys wanted, right!? We think this will come in super handy when you Scouts are out doing your Scout jobs. We're not exactly sure what those jobs are or what they're supposed to be. Obviously, not combat. Or recon. You know, Scout stuff. Anywho, have fun guys! But not too much fun!
-CPM2
PS: You're welcome!The Shottini sends his regards. Shotty-go-bang can get off his ass and address me himself. I'm not in the market for misquoting rants through intermediaries. Not everything in this thread is going on my list of good ideas, but the presentation definitely inclines me to skip your posts in the future. If that's what you want, please continue. I will cheerily tell anyone who tries to browbeat or put me in the place they want me to be where they can merrily shove their opinions.  Because I'm totally the nice guy who actually takes everyone's opinion into account, no matter how insulting or satirical, amirite?
I should have put in a disclaimer.
I don't agree with this at all.
At.
All.
I definitely thought that the CPM2 should see it though, hence why I posted it here and gave a link.
Re-Re-Re-Re-Retired PC Scout. I miss the old days ;_;
You never just leave Dust. You story will last forever.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
12
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Posted - 2015.12.03 18:24:00 -
[67] - Quote
My bullsh*t filter is off-kilter dye to sleep issues. Don't have the patience or the attention span to filter that kinda thing right now.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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Ghost Kaisar
Fatal Absolution
14
|
Posted - 2015.12.03 18:35:00 -
[68] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:My bullsh*t filter is off-kilter dye to sleep issues. Don't have the patience or the attention span to filter that kinda thing right now.
Since you were kind enough to clarify, you're off my sh*tlist for now.
Unrelated; but do you play EVE with the Goons as well?
What's your stance on the recent Imperium/Kickstarter/Cloud Ring controversy going on?
Re-Re-Re-Re-Retired PC Scout. I miss the old days ;_;
You never just leave Dust. You story will last forever.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
12
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Posted - 2015.12.03 18:52:00 -
[69] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:My bullsh*t filter is off-kilter dye to sleep issues. Don't have the patience or the attention span to filter that kinda thing right now.
Since you were kind enough to clarify, you're off my sh*tlist for now. No worries, its fine. Unrelated; but do you play EVE with the Goons as well? What's your stance on the recent Imperium/Kickstarter/Cloud Ring controversy going on?
I play with Goons in EVE when my time allows it. Believe it or not, discussing issues and hashing out compromises with most of the CPM can eat a lot of time. Discussing things with devs can eat a lot more. Plus I have a full-time job. So realistically I might have eight miscellaneous hours per week for gaming, assuming I don't get into an argument with someone over some "Brilliant Idea" one of us comes up with. No I do not imply I am innocent of all wrongdoing here.
to the second line of questions, I honestly don't give a crap. Mittens' real life business endeavors do not concern me, nor do the people pitching in.
And if you think the goons need an excuse to start a war, beyond "You're a pubbie therefore you deserve to get your teeth kicked in" You're sadly mistaken.
But the tinfoil is rather humorous to read.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
2
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Posted - 2015.12.03 18:55:00 -
[70] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:"... feedback that people present constructively ..." * Dial back slightly the buff to GA Assault RoF
* Dial back slightly the buffs to Assault base shield stats
* Add mobility penalties to Ferroscale Plates
* Increase mobility penalties to Reactive Plates
* Increase mobility penalties to Armor Plates when equipped by non-heavy frames^ Puts the brakes on power creep. Fixes Himiko's balance problem without creating new balance problems.
* Sentinel Buffs ^ Moar power creep rolls the snowball downhill. Fixes Himiko's balance problem, but in doing so creates new balance problems.
Free constructive feedback. Take it or leave it, but don't say I'm not helpful :-) As for assuming things, what else are we to do? We don't hear from Rattati these days, and you CPM guys don't give us much to work with. We're in the dark. Speculation is our only option.
I think the problem with sentinels is more a result of the HMG nerfs than the assault shield buffs, or the Gal assault bonus.
Yes the shield buff will have made a small difference to sentinel v assault combat, but very little.
Most sentinel combat is vs shotgun assaults, sometimes shotgun scouts. The assaults are generally fitted for high mobility and shield tanked. Shield assault regen is in a pretty good place. I may not have agreed 100% with all the changes here, but dialing back some of this is probably not the best solution. It would have little effect on sentinel vs assault combat.
I do feel the Gal assault bonus is over the top, but I think Breakin would be right to view the stats before fine-tuning this. It may be shotguns that sentinels struggle with, but ARs are also encroaching on the HMG's domain I feel, and are capable of much better ranged combat.
Power creep is a problem, but it's too late for this cycle, we are half way through. Commandos and logis were buffed to be equal to assaults. Sentinels were nerfed, so long as careful and minor adjustments are considered we can avoid another cycle of power creep. It's too late to avoid the creep that's happened in the past.
Hp mod nerfs would be a nice solution if people weren't against a reduction to TTK. So this probably isn't a good idea without universal weapon damage reductions. Maybe not the best solution.
An argument could be made for shotgun changes, like swapping some alpha for range. But it's a risk to mess with the identity of a weapon so integral to Dust's identity. Not to mention scouts' reliance on it for it's high alpha. A point highlighted in Rattati's recent PC data, showing almost 0 rifle kills with scout suits. |
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Vyuru
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
295
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Posted - 2015.12.03 19:01:00 -
[71] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:"... feedback that people present constructively ..." * Dial back slightly the buff to GA Assault RoF
* Dial back slightly the buffs to Assault base shield stats
* Add mobility penalties to Ferroscale Plates
* Increase mobility penalties to Reactive Plates
* Increase mobility penalties to Armor Plates when equipped by non-heavy frames^ Puts the brakes on power creep. Fixes Himiko's balance problem without creating new balance problems.
* Sentinel Buffs ^ Moar power creep rolls the snowball downhill. Fixes Himiko's balance problem, but in doing so creates new balance problems.
Free constructive feedback. Take it or leave it, but don't say I'm not helpful :-) As for assuming things, what else are we to do? We don't hear from Rattati these days, and you CPM guys don't give us much to work with. We're in the dark. Speculation is our only option.
My own two cents on this.
I feel that the vanilla AR is the main issue right now with these buffs to Gallente Assaults. I would consider reducing it's max and effective range about 10% or so. The rest of the AR family feels pretty decent where it is at.
What are you thinking when you say adjust assault base shields? (Can't remember what all got changed) Caldari feel like they are in a good place to me shield-wise.
Ferroscale plates should not have a movement penalty IMO. They should be dialed back a bit, 10%-15%, as they are too powerful without a movement penalty IMO.
Reactives I think are good, since armor and repair skills do not effect them.
I don't know what to say about regular armor plates, as I don't run them often on non heavy frames. I might say maybe consider increasing stacking penalties for multiple plates though.
While I don't think Ferroscale plates by themselves are an issue, would it be possible to code it so that each additional armor plate costs say a 1% movement penalty? That way there is some penalty for someone filling up their lows with Ferroscale armor plates.
And lastly, if they do not already, Armor plates should effect jump height. I am fine and happy with Myofibs, but I think some armor based suits get to use them a little too well. |
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
12
|
Posted - 2015.12.03 19:05:00 -
[72] - Quote
Valroth you pretty much hit the nail on the head where my thoughts are.
Personally, I'm of the opinion of take the assaults, make them the baseline benchmark for overall performance and just get everyone else somewhere on par within their bailiwick. Assaults aren't too horribly far off from balance.
The HMG is what ganked the sentinels. The AHMG is fun as hell and highly amusing, but it doesn't have that raw power feel of the standard HMG. I'd like the feel back, but I don't want the superfatty dominance back.
I want to leave armor as is, get shields on par with armor, then bring the support modules up. Not so much the damage mods, but things like precision enhancers, damps, range extenders, etc. Once we have parity, I want to have a look at close range alpha-dependent weapons like shotguns and nova knives.
The one nerf I wanted was purely to hurt people who fit both plates and extenders. If you have both plates and extenders on the same dropsuit, you double the inherent penalties of each plate and extender (Ferroscales would get 1/3/5% movement penalty enjoyed by plates if extenders are fitted).
I'm outvoted though, so this isn't a CPM-approved course. Just the "Breakin being sadistic again" dream to discourage fitting nothing but HP mods in both slot sets.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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Ghost Kaisar
Fatal Absolution
14
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Posted - 2015.12.03 19:13:00 -
[73] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Ghost Kaisar wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:My bullsh*t filter is off-kilter dye to sleep issues. Don't have the patience or the attention span to filter that kinda thing right now.
Since you were kind enough to clarify, you're off my sh*tlist for now. No worries, its fine. Unrelated; but do you play EVE with the Goons as well? What's your stance on the recent Imperium/Kickstarter/Cloud Ring controversy going on? I play with Goons in EVE when my time allows it. Believe it or not, discussing issues and hashing out compromises with most of the CPM can eat a lot of time. Discussing things with devs can eat a lot more. Plus I have a full-time job. So realistically I might have eight miscellaneous hours per week for gaming, assuming I don't get into an argument with someone over some "Brilliant Idea" one of us comes up with. No I do not imply I am innocent of all wrongdoing here. to the second line of questions, I honestly don't give a crap. Mittens' real life business endeavors do not concern me, nor do the people pitching in. And if you think the goons need an excuse to start a war, beyond "You're a pubbie therefore you deserve to get your teeth kicked in" You're sadly mistaken. But the tinfoil is rather humorous to read.
Was curious. I've seen tons of stuff flying around all over the place, but you're kinda the only Goon I've ever actually talked to. I try not to draw conclusions before getting some input.
Re-Re-Re-Re-Retired PC Scout. I miss the old days ;_;
You never just leave Dust. You story will last forever.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
Learning Alliance
7
|
Posted - 2015.12.03 20:30:00 -
[74] - Quote
Krixus Flux wrote:But when the heavy was doing its Terminator thing, the tears flowed. Heavily. The heavy as it is now is a result of that.
I think that is why his Theseus suggests buffing Heavy HP rather than buffing Heavy DPS. The TTK against the lighter suits is correct, it is the TTK against the Heavy's which is low.
HMG Sentinels killing faster causes more QQ because people die before they can react.
HMG Sentinels taking longer to kill would not be as much of an issue for lighter suits because only an idiot would try to go head to head with an HMG Sentinel in a DPS race when the advantage of the lighter suits comes from their speed and reach. Proper use of cover or range would still allow Assault suits to take out higher HP Sentinels. But higher HP would make the Sentinel harder to get past in a defensive role.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
6
|
Posted - 2015.12.03 20:50:00 -
[75] - Quote
For the record, I don't personally view power creep as a totally bad thing. Moreso, its an inevitable thing that has negative consequences. But when you look at balance as a whole, the opposite is also true. As long as balance passes are regular and non-biased enough, it can actually keep an otherwise stagnant game interesting. Regressing tends to have the opposite effect. Nobody gets excited when something they enjoyed gets nerfed or removed.
That said, when it comes right down to it we have two roads ahead of us when it comes to this particular problem. The power creep route would be to buff heavy EHP. This route is the correct route to take if we are comfortable with the TTK between all non-heavy suits, but want the heavy itself to last longer.
The other route is the nerf/regression route, and pretty much would involve either nerfing the damage values on everything that isn't a heavy or nerfing the damage on pretty much every weapon to create a longer TTK across the board.
I would not personally support adding any further movement penalties to any module. The game has gotten slower and slower since Uprising came out. I really don't think we need another dose of that. I know a lot of players who are fairly unhappy with the current speed it is at as well. Another speed nerf would probably be the final nail in the coffin for them.
This is a positive and endearing message brought to you by Himi.
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Sbundo'D
Dead Meta Game
36
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Posted - 2015.12.03 21:03:00 -
[76] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:Krixus Flux wrote:But when the heavy was doing its Terminator thing, the tears flowed. Heavily. The heavy as it is now is a result of that. I think that is why his Theseus suggests buffing Heavy HP rather than buffing Heavy DPS. The TTK against the lighter suits is correct, it is the TTK against the Heavy's which is low. HMG Sentinels killing faster causes more QQ because people die before they can react. HMG Sentinels taking longer to kill would not be as much of an issue for lighter suits because only an idiot would try to go head to head with an HMG Sentinel in a DPS race when the advantage of the lighter suits comes from their speed and reach. Proper use of cover or range would still allow Assault suits to take out higher HP Sentinels. But higher HP would make the Sentinel harder to get past in a defensive role.
Increase HP by increasing the resistance bonuses
Don't be a D1CK
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Megaman Trigger
OSG Planetary Operations
932
|
Posted - 2015.12.03 22:42:00 -
[77] - Quote
Sbundo'D wrote:Fox Gaden wrote:Krixus Flux wrote:But when the heavy was doing its Terminator thing, the tears flowed. Heavily. The heavy as it is now is a result of that. I think that is why his Theseus suggests buffing Heavy HP rather than buffing Heavy DPS. The TTK against the lighter suits is correct, it is the TTK against the Heavy's which is low. HMG Sentinels killing faster causes more QQ because people die before they can react. HMG Sentinels taking longer to kill would not be as much of an issue for lighter suits because only an idiot would try to go head to head with an HMG Sentinel in a DPS race when the advantage of the lighter suits comes from their speed and reach. Proper use of cover or range would still allow Assault suits to take out higher HP Sentinels. But higher HP would make the Sentinel harder to get past in a defensive role. Increase HP by increasing the resistance bonuses
That'd only work if we Sentinels had resistances to all damage types rather than specific ones bases on race or we had some sort of a Sentinel only Resistance Mod.
Purifier. First Class.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
Learning Alliance
7
|
Posted - 2015.12.04 13:28:00 -
[78] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:When I talk about the Terminator thing, I want to put this scene in your mind. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnGVoiJj3ngNotice its not all about dishing out damage as much as shrugging it off. Heavies have not really done this in recent memory. We don't really have any particular suit that fills the "soak up damage" role effectively, and you'd assume the heavy would be a dead ringer for it. Am I wrong in assuming the heavy should be filling this role? In the other end of the spectrum, we have this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RbL4PwTDsQNot what I'm aiming for, unless SERIOUS restrictions got applied to heavy deployment lol.
I think that was an Assault HMG in that second clip. Watch how it rips LAV's appart. 
I think the base model HMG's advantage over the Assault Rifle should be its clip size and ability for continuous fire, rather than its up front DPS. (DPS should still be higher, but only because of the range/DPS ratio.)
The Burst is the big upfront DPS HMG, but in its current configuration that is heavily balanced by heat buildup and running our of Ammo so much faster. I would leave the Burst as is, as it requires a lot of player skill to be effective, and has limitations even when used correctly, but it still provides a very different play style choice for those who like the big upfront punch. (Options are good.)
The Assault HMG (Should be called the Breach) does less DPS than the base model due to the range/DPS ratio, but does have that extra range, and damage to vehicles.
Those 3 variations provide 3 very different styles of play, but I think they would all be balanced on a slow moving, high HP Sentinel.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
Learning Alliance
7
|
Posted - 2015.12.04 14:04:00 -
[79] - Quote
Varoth Drac wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:In a proper competitive match scouts don't need their own radar because they have dedicated active scanners helping them as it is. Damps are where they find their strength. Due to this, gal scouts are the most viable. Cal scouts are viable up until focused scanners on gal logis come out, or if the opposing team brings out a logibros which can passively scan up to 50 meters at 17db. Min scouts are suicide fast hackers and they do this role well.
In short, the "scout" doesn't have issues if you refer to the scout simply as the gal scout. The other ones, yes, have problems.
I would disagree about the assault thing. In terms of purely selfish rockstar play, there is nothing better. In the end the goal is to kill the other team and no other suit does it better. So ... Scout EWAR is fine because GalLogi scans are OP. FAscinating logic you've got there. Passive and active scans are difficult to directly compare. I'd rather all scouts were capable of effective stealth before worrying too much about scanning. Supporting a team with scanning is a role more suited to logis. Scouts need scanning to help evasion and combat. They aren't in a bad place in this regard. They don't need to easily see everyone's positions over a large area.
It would be nice if any person or vehicle we targeted so that their health bar displays, would show on our team's TacNet. Then Scout's speed and stealth would allow them to effectively scout in an active way (by targeting Snipers, Tanks, and defenders), which I think would be much better than back when Scout Passive Scans made a Caldari Scout hiding in a corner an effective role. It would also make the Overwatch Sniper more effective as Overwatch, even in PUB matches where no one is on coms.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
2
|
Posted - 2015.12.04 14:38:00 -
[80] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:
It would be nice if any person or vehicle we targeted so that their health bar displays, would show on our team's TacNet. Then Scout's speed and stealth would allow them to effectively scout in an active way (by targeting Snipers, Tanks, and defenders), which I think would be much better than back when Scout Passive Scans made a Caldari Scout hiding in a corner an effective role. It would also make the Overwatch Sniper more effective as Overwatch, even in PUB matches where no one is on coms.
It's a nice idea, so long as it's not extended to what we had upon release of uprising, where just sight of anyone broadcasted their location to your whole team.
Don't confuse the term "scout" with "recon" however. It's not necessary to show enemy positions to your team in order to scout. The term is referring to operating ahead of your main force. This can be rapid deployment/response, set up for your main force, and operation behind enemy lines, including target assassination, flanking and disruption. Relaying information can certainly be included in that, but unlike what I hear sometimes here on the forums, relaying information is not necessary for a unit to be a scout, regardless of how the role may exist in real life military. |
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l-o-i-c
DUST University
Ivy League
0
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Posted - 2015.12.04 14:42:00 -
[81] - Quote
I am confident that the assaults would still pull ahead if they had 1 less slot than they currently do, or if the other suits only had -1 slot compared to the assaults. More slots to play around with could potentially lead to more viable fittings for the other classes.
Maybe Ra Ta Tas have that fancy racial slot layout chart laying around somewhere... I thought that it was a good idea back then, and it would make for a progression on the whole tiericide (well slot layout normalization between tiers). I think the racial layouts were - cal 5h, 2l - min 4h, 3l - gal 3h, 4l - ama 2h, 5l. I imagine that normalizing slot layout between classes would make balancing modules more straight forward since the potential increases for fixed value modules would remain the same regardless of suit which would make tweaking the baseline suit stats comparatively clearer. |
Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
Learning Alliance
7
|
Posted - 2015.12.04 14:49:00 -
[82] - Quote
Varoth Drac wrote:Fox Gaden wrote:
It would be nice if any person or vehicle we targeted so that their health bar displays, would show on our team's TacNet. Then Scout's speed and stealth would allow them to effectively scout in an active way (by targeting Snipers, Tanks, and defenders), which I think would be much better than back when Scout Passive Scans made a Caldari Scout hiding in a corner an effective role. It would also make the Overwatch Sniper more effective as Overwatch, even in PUB matches where no one is on coms.
It's a nice idea, so long as it's not extended to what we had upon release of uprising, where just sight of anyone broadcasted their location to your whole team. Don't confuse the term "scout" with "recon" however. It's not necessary to show enemy positions to your team in order to scout. The term is referring to operating ahead of your main force. This can be rapid deployment/response, set up for your main force, and operation behind enemy lines, including target assassination, flanking and disruption. Relaying information can certainly be included in that, but unlike what I hear sometimes here on the forums, relaying information is not necessary for a unit to be a scout, regardless of how the role may exist in real life military.
To confirm, I meant that you would have to put them in your sights to flag them for the TacNet. It is something the Sniper Community thought was in the game two years ago, but it turned out to be just a rumor (like the old rummer that sprinting increased your scan profile).
You make a good point about Scouts vs Recon, but Recon is still one of the Roles that Scouts are well suited to perform.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
2
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Posted - 2015.12.04 15:07:00 -
[83] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:Varoth Drac wrote:Fox Gaden wrote:
It would be nice if any person or vehicle we targeted so that their health bar displays, would show on our team's TacNet. Then Scout's speed and stealth would allow them to effectively scout in an active way (by targeting Snipers, Tanks, and defenders), which I think would be much better than back when Scout Passive Scans made a Caldari Scout hiding in a corner an effective role. It would also make the Overwatch Sniper more effective as Overwatch, even in PUB matches where no one is on coms.
It's a nice idea, so long as it's not extended to what we had upon release of uprising, where just sight of anyone broadcasted their location to your whole team. Don't confuse the term "scout" with "recon" however. It's not necessary to show enemy positions to your team in order to scout. The term is referring to operating ahead of your main force. This can be rapid deployment/response, set up for your main force, and operation behind enemy lines, including target assassination, flanking and disruption. Relaying information can certainly be included in that, but unlike what I hear sometimes here on the forums, relaying information is not necessary for a unit to be a scout, regardless of how the role may exist in real life military. To confirm, I meant that you would have to put them in your sights to flag them for the TacNet. It is something the Sniper Community thought was in the game two years ago, but it turned out to be just a rumor ( like the old rummer that sprinting increased your scan profile). You make a good point about Scouts vs Recon, but Recon is still one of the Roles that Scouts are well suited to perform.
It's potentially a nice idea.
And I agree with you about scouts. I just felt I should comment because I sometimes here people say "let scouts actually scout, they don't need to kill, just relay information". Which is a gross misunderstanding of the role. But I see that's not where you were going with this. |
Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
Learning Alliance
7
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Posted - 2015.12.04 17:41:00 -
[84] - Quote
Varoth Drac wrote:Power creep is a problem, but it's too late for this cycle, we are half way through. Commandos and logis were buffed to be equal to assaults. Sentinels were nerfed, so long as careful and minor adjustments are considered we can avoid another cycle of power creep. It's too late to avoid the creep that's happened in the past.
I think this is a good response to Adipem Nothi's suggestion to Nerf Assaults to counter power creep. If the other suits are relatively balanced combat wise against the Assault suit, then it makes seance to balance Sentinels against Assaults at their current level.
I also think that it is better to buff Sentinels through base HP than through DPS.
Higher HP Sentinels don't flip the balance against Rifle Assaults the way higher DPS Sentinels would. A higher HP Sentinel just means an Assault may need to take cover to reload, or retreat back to the next cover before finishing the Sentinel off. It would mean Assaults would need to use a bit more play skill to take down a Sentinel 1 v 1, rather than just doing a shimi while going head to head in the open. 1 v 1 fights in the open should go to the Sentinel due to Rock/Paper/Scissors balancing.
My only concern would be the Alpha damage weapons used by Scouts. If it takes more than 3 shots to kill a Sentinel then Scouts become less effective against Sentinels. On the other hand, if that Officer Shotgun required 1 extra shot to take out a Sentinel, then maybe it would not be as OP anymore.
So in buffing Sentinel base health it would need to be enough to make a difference vs rifles, but not too much to make Shotguns ineffective.
Remember that it is supposed to be Sentinels (rock) > Assault (Scissors) > Scout (Paper) > Sentinel (Rock), so we need to make sure any Sentinel Buff does not give Sentinels the advantage over Scouts. Keeping in mind however that the Rock/Paper/Scissors balance advantages are only supposed to be slight so that they can be overcome using tactical play.
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
18
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Posted - 2015.12.04 18:15:00 -
[85] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:
I think this is a good response to Adipem Nothi's suggestion to Nerf Assaults to counter power creep. If the other suits are relatively balanced combat wise against the Assault suit, then it makes seance to balance Sentinels against Assaults at their current level.
I don't know that this is a safe assumption, Fox. In my personal opinion, Assaults are in substantially better shape combat-wise than Scouts, Commandos and Heavies. Usage rates are heavily skewed in their favor:
http://dust.thang.dk/market_tryhardinator.php (thanks for the update, G Clone)
If Scouts and Commandos were balanced against Assaults, then absolutely, yes, bring Heavies up-to-par. But I don't believe that this is the case. Bringing Heavies up-to-par with Assaults will leave Scouts and Commandos further behind.
Dropsuit Usage Rates
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Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
2
|
Posted - 2015.12.04 22:44:00 -
[86] - Quote
Comandos just got quite a lot of buffs. I don't think the usage rates will have properly reflected this yet. Also, commandos have quite a niche role, they are unlikely to be be balanced and have high usage rates. That just leaves scouts and sentinels.
Concerns about alpha weapons is partly why I recommend resistance over hp. Nova knives shouldn't be affected as they technically aren't one of the standard damage types
Also, I disagree about the rock - paper - scissors idea when it comes to scouts and sentinels. In my opinion scout vs sentinel is reasonably balanced. |
Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
6
|
Posted - 2015.12.04 22:50:00 -
[87] - Quote
I briefly thought about how the game would play if Sentinels worked with locational damage profiles. Meaning, weaker from behind and tougher up front. Sorta like how tanks have a weakspot in the back.
Well, it's a fun idea in theory anyway. Still gives the scouts a skill-based approach to dropping heavies, gives the heavy a clear advantage in dueling assaults, but also ensures that assaults have a method of winning, even if its trickier.
Hah, well again its just a fun idea. Not sure if thats the kind of thing that's programmable or not at this stage.
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Mad Syringe
Carbon 7
839
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Posted - 2015.12.07 11:51:00 -
[88] - Quote
Speed is the fotm right now.
Hit detection is at it's badest with speed tanked suits.
So no more nerfs to plates, since they are not used that much anyway.
Sentinels should be able to run plates without speed reduction. Right now I've heard FC's telling their Sents to put kinkats on their suts instead of plates... This says it all!
The hmg kick reduction should be put back to heat reduction, so Sents could shoot longer (overheated they are easy prey).
Finally, I would love to see resistance mods, to counter some overused weapons (Bon's are the bane of heavies)
The idea to give scouts a scanning option with their weapons seems to be reasonable. So if they have a red hitmarker, the person marked becomes visible for the whole team. This should work however only with direct line of sight...
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
18
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Posted - 2015.12.07 13:36:00 -
[89] - Quote
Mad Syringe wrote:Speed is the fotm right now.
Hit detection is at it's badest with speed tanked suits.
"So no more nerfs to plates, since they are not used that much anyway."
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Dropsuit Usage Rates
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Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
2
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Posted - 2015.12.07 14:20:00 -
[90] - Quote
To be fair, most well fitted suits use ferroscale and reactive over armour plates. It's the double strafe penalty that makes them bad. I understand it was needed to combat the efficiency that plates provided for scouts, but it is a bad design and makes the extra hp not really worth it.
Hp mods should always have been percentage based, then we wouldn't have this problem. |
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