DUST Search - Vehicle Hardeners

All Channels

Feedback/Requests

Vehicle Hardeners

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.10.27 22:01:00 - [1] - Quote It seems the era of hardener stacking is still upon us - rejoice... I think vehicles would be more interesting if hardeners had a decent downside. Disable reps/recharge while active... Possibly have shields begin to recharge as soon as hardener is disabled. People will no longer be able to just activate hardeners to feel safe for a period of time, you must think if you need to tank or need to rep. Stacking multiple hardeners will still be viable, but you will need to plan ahead to make sure you can get to a safe place to regen, instead of just sitting around soaking up damage until it runs out. Thoughts?
Mikel Arias Challengers 506 217	Posted - 2015.10.27 22:41:00 - [2] - Quote Well, its an idea, and one of the most crazy I have heard. I like it. However, I would rather that only one hardener could be fitted. Last match a p u s s y (sorry, Im not really the kind of guy to use that kind of lenguaje, but there is no other word for this guy) had like three hardeners, so his tanks could not be taken out by my friend and I with AV fittings that almost all the time get prototype HAVs destroyed (by surprise). This guy took damage and didnt even bother to move, he was just camping... and my team kept attacking with just guns...
Roger Cordill The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 447	Posted - 2015.10.27 22:41:00 - [3] - Quote Recharge isn't strong enough to warrant that, and if armor reps were active again, hardeners would be a non issue, considering a pilot would have a set time frame to do pretty much anything.
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Four Horseman Tactical Agency 2	Posted - 2015.10.27 23:07:00 - [4] - Quote You know that AV grenades and packed remotes have a lot of effects on vehicles , even when hardened given the right combinations of PLC's , swarms and forges .. also now with breach mass and flaylock's as well . It just seems like if you can't do well one on one then that sounds personal but ground vehicles already have many more things that make them fall back compared to the three the DS's have . I have a fit that solo's HAV's when the operator isn't aware or good and that's the way it should be , I shouldn't be able to beat a decent operator , neither should I expect to . I just believe that HAV's should be HAV's ( Tanks ) and anymore weaknesses and it really won't be fair to those who place SP's into that role or fair to the role it's self by it being so water downed . I hope that people will stop making threads about non issues and get on the issues that make this game stagnate , talking about myo's is mundane and so is talking about boosters ( it's been happening way before the event and happens a lot in FW matches ) , high uplinks ( that's why your in that squad that you people fight so hard for , to get in a DS and take them out but now they want to nerf their application ) or more " things that HAV's need to " balance " them ." , when their already fragile as it is and CCP is finally trying to bring out the rest of the racial HAV's on top of fixing the disparage between the gunnies and maddies . I just don't see HAV's as being too much of a problem unless your just lazy and don't want to switch roles to deal with the threat , not good enough to battle them or just flat out , do not like them and want the role killed ... to me their weak enough and they way people stress about squads , it just seems that players in squads do the most complaining while solo players just seek balance . There are just too many ways to deal with HAV's now , that it just doesn't make sense to " re-tweak " them , I mean ... their weak already if you know how to approach them and CCP just did major work on expanding their weak spots . Anything else done to them and it just wouldn't make sense to even have them in-game . I would rather wait until the next batch of vehicles drop before anything else is done , it just wouldn't make sense with that looming . I'm sure they don't need the extra work and if anything needs to be done , they could just do it in one swoop . Teamwork is really important - said the Tyrannosarus Rex from Kung Fury .
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Four Horseman Tactical Agency 2	Posted - 2015.10.27 23:11:00 - [5] - Quote Mikel Arias wrote: Well, its an idea, and one of the most crazy I have heard. I like it. However, I would rather that only one hardener could be fitted. Last match a p u s s y (sorry, Im not really the kind of guy to use that kind of lenguaje, but there is no other word for this guy) had like three hardeners, so his tanks could not be taken out by my friend and I with AV fittings that almost all the time get prototype HAVs destroyed (by surprise). This guy took damage and didnt even bother to move, he was just camping... and my team kept attacking with just guns... That just sounds like the operator was smart , it's no different from infantry using two or three damage mods , armor reps , shield / armor plates or anything else that would give them a better advantage on the battlefield . Just don't think that's being a p u s s y more then being smart . You said it yourself that you get guys by surprise , it sounds like he wasn't surprised and was ready for anything , that takes smarts . Teamwork is really important - said the Tyrannosarus Rex from Kung Fury .
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 21	Posted - 2015.10.27 23:29:00 - [6] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: It seems the era of hardener stacking is still upon us - rejoice... I think vehicles would be more interesting if hardeners had a decent downside. Disable reps/recharge while active... Possibly have shields begin to recharge as soon as hardener is disabled. People will no longer be able to just activate hardeners to feel safe for a period of time, you must think if you need to tank or need to rep. Stacking multiple hardeners will still be viable, but you will need to plan ahead to make sure you can get to a safe place to regen, instead of just sitting around soaking up damage until it runs out. Thoughts? Yeah maybe if we had Bastion Modules but never on standard Hardeners. They just need lesser resistance increases so a focus can be of HAV raw HP with small total gains not effective HP due to huge resistance gains. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 6	Posted - 2015.10.28 02:05:00 - [7] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Derpty Derp wrote: It seems the era of hardener stacking is still upon us - rejoice... I think vehicles would be more interesting if hardeners had a decent downside. Disable reps/recharge while active... Possibly have shields begin to recharge as soon as hardener is disabled. People will no longer be able to just activate hardeners to feel safe for a period of time, you must think if you need to tank or need to rep. Stacking multiple hardeners will still be viable, but you will need to plan ahead to make sure you can get to a safe place to regen, instead of just sitting around soaking up damage until it runs out. Thoughts? Yeah maybe if we had Bastion Modules but never on standard Hardeners. They just need lesser resistance increases so a focus can be of HAV raw HP with small total gains not effective HP due to huge resistance gains. This guy gets it. "That little sh*t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati
Mikel Arias Challengers 506 219	Posted - 2015.10.28 15:45:00 - [8] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Mikel Arias wrote: Well, its an idea, and one of the most crazy I have heard. I like it. However, I would rather that only one hardener could be fitted. Last match a p u s s y (sorry, Im not really the kind of guy to use that kind of lenguaje, but there is no other word for this guy) had like three hardeners, so his tanks could not be taken out by my friend and I with AV fittings that almost all the time get prototype HAVs destroyed (by surprise). This guy took damage and didnt even bother to move, he was just camping... and my team kept attacking with just guns... That just sounds like the operator was smart , it's no different from infantry using two or three damage mods , armor reps , shield / armor plates or anything else that would give them a better advantage on the battlefield . Just don't think that's being a p u s s y more then being smart . You said it yourself that you get guys by surprise , it sounds like he wasn't surprised and was ready for anything , that takes smarts . Alright, you have a point.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. 4	Posted - 2015.10.28 16:48:00 - [9] - Quote Vehicles have ** for HP, HP modules got nerfed, active reps removed or outright broken in the case of shield boosters and also nerfed the amount to regen, the vehicles themselves have been nerfed HP wise in some cases. Stacking multiple hardeners already comes with stacking penalties so you are adding another nerf onto an essential module because all other modules are generally useless hence why cookie cutter fits is all you see. We had more variety back in Chromosome once again because we had module variety. Add in that basically every weapon now does damage to a HAV including my butter knife it has never been easier to destroy a vehicle let alone a HAV which now has weakspots everywhere on the hull because little timmy complained that there HMG doesn't do damage. You are asking for just another nerf on top of the ** sandwich and asking vehicle pilots to yet again take another bite. CCP Rattati - "One giant vehicle nerf with more power to AV", you have got to be kidding...''
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.10.28 23:42:00 - [10] - Quote Just a little 'heads up' to the people jumping straight to "Tankers got it rough yo, get gud with your swarm and av nades bro." I am a tanker, the thing that annoys me is not tanks being unkillable, they aren't... They're just boring as ****. Something needs to change, because they're either kill everything or get insta-popped, there's no happy medium... I've pretty much given up on av vs vehicle, as it is inherently designed to be boring, but it would be nice if vehicle vs vehicle could be more interesting. Would honestly love it if we had to choose between outputting damage, tanking damage and repairing damage, though this would likely require a lot of work... It would add a lot of strategy to the (vehicle) game.

Roger Cordill The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 455	Posted - 2015.10.29 00:33:00 - [11] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: Just a little 'heads up' to the people jumping straight to "Tankers got it rough yo, get gud with your swarm and av nades bro." I am a tanker, the thing that annoys me is not tanks being unkillable, they aren't... They're just boring as ****. Something needs to change, because they're either kill everything or get insta-popped, there's no happy medium... I've pretty much given up on av vs vehicle, as it is inherently designed to be boring, but it would be nice if vehicle vs vehicle could be more interesting. Would honestly love it if we had to choose between outputting damage, tanking damage and repairing damage, though this would likely require a lot of work... It would add a lot of strategy to the (vehicle) game. The issue people have is instead of using what we know worked, you want to try something completely new, which probably won't, just add to the list of things needed to be reverted.
Tebu Gan Capital Acquisitions LLC 1	Posted - 2015.10.29 15:10:00 - [12] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: True Adamance wrote: Derpty Derp wrote: It seems the era of hardener stacking is still upon us - rejoice... I think vehicles would be more interesting if hardeners had a decent downside. Disable reps/recharge while active... Possibly have shields begin to recharge as soon as hardener is disabled. People will no longer be able to just activate hardeners to feel safe for a period of time, you must think if you need to tank or need to rep. Stacking multiple hardeners will still be viable, but you will need to plan ahead to make sure you can get to a safe place to regen, instead of just sitting around soaking up damage until it runs out. Thoughts? Yeah maybe if we had Bastion Modules but never on standard Hardeners. They just need lesser resistance increases so a focus can be of HAV raw HP with small total gains not effective HP due to huge resistance gains. This guy gets it. Hardeners are fine but the cooldown and uptimes need some serious tweaking. I've only said this like a million times. 45 seconds on an armor hardener? Really? Try 30 with max skills and see what happens.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 21	Posted - 2015.10.29 16:26:00 - [13] - Quote Tebu Gan wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: True Adamance wrote: Derpty Derp wrote: It seems the era of hardener stacking is still upon us - rejoice... I think vehicles would be more interesting if hardeners had a decent downside. Disable reps/recharge while active... Possibly have shields begin to recharge as soon as hardener is disabled. People will no longer be able to just activate hardeners to feel safe for a period of time, you must think if you need to tank or need to rep. Stacking multiple hardeners will still be viable, but you will need to plan ahead to make sure you can get to a safe place to regen, instead of just sitting around soaking up damage until it runs out. Thoughts? Yeah maybe if we had Bastion Modules but never on standard Hardeners. They just need lesser resistance increases so a focus can be of HAV raw HP with small total gains not effective HP due to huge resistance gains. This guy gets it. Hardeners are fine but the cooldown and uptimes need some serious tweaking. I've only said this like a million times. 45 seconds on an armor hardener? Really? Try 30 with max skills and see what happens. I'm not convince this meta of having 30% resistance hardeners make tanks either be useful or worthless is positive or particularly interesting tank gameplay. Concepts like defliade and enfilade should be encouraged and a tankers should feel like they can be useful at all time even if at some times their defenses are heightened. I got no respect for tanks in Dust 514. They're not particularly reflective of real tank combat nor do they require altogether that much effort to pilot these days. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
Ardos 130297 Prima Gallicus 122	Posted - 2015.10.29 16:31:00 - [14] - Quote I think, one of the problem is : No hardener on your tank = useless Hardener on your tank = too powerfull So, conclusion, you've got only 1 meta for tank player and it's very boring... You do not win a war by making what is just... You win it by making what is necessary... Veteran Closed Beta
CLONE117 True Pros Forever 914	Posted - 2015.10.29 17:15:00 - [15] - Quote well im just going to miss the days of 500 hps reps on my 200 k maddy with std blaster again. and 4000 armor hp. it was hardener free... and great at dealing with hardener tanks... but asides from that all of those fits were invalid when i got on last night. only valid fit i had were a few gunlogis which now would be useless in any situation as i designed them during 1.7 as glass cannons. and my mlt soma.. with a mlt damage mod and fuel injector. the fact i cant even stack decent reps or 120 mm plates is ridiculous. and the turn speed is much slower than i remember its all slower than last i played. over all i was forced to play it safe during that domination near the end.. i got fed up with being incapable on the ground with all the scouts dancing in my crosshairs as my line of hmg bullets fail to hit the as they kill me with a combat rifle. this is low end gear im using against proto though. in fact the only reason i got a positive kd that match was because i spawned on an uplink that a bunch of people were camping and put and re on the ground and set it off right before i died. if only we could pilot the mcc. id end the matches real quick.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 6	Posted - 2015.10.29 17:36:00 - [16] - Quote Tebu Gan wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: True Adamance wrote: Derpty Derp wrote: It seems the era of hardener stacking is still upon us - rejoice... I think vehicles would be more interesting if hardeners had a decent downside. Disable reps/recharge while active... Possibly have shields begin to recharge as soon as hardener is disabled. People will no longer be able to just activate hardeners to feel safe for a period of time, you must think if you need to tank or need to rep. Stacking multiple hardeners will still be viable, but you will need to plan ahead to make sure you can get to a safe place to regen, instead of just sitting around soaking up damage until it runs out. Thoughts? Yeah maybe if we had Bastion Modules but never on standard Hardeners. They just need lesser resistance increases so a focus can be of HAV raw HP with small total gains not effective HP due to huge resistance gains. This guy gets it. Hardeners are fine but the cooldown and uptimes need some serious tweaking. I've only said this like a million times. 45 seconds on an armor hardener? Really? Try 30 with max skills and see what happens. Not to mention hardeners increase effective rep rate while active. So you end up with vehicles that are often at 100% or dead. I mean you rarely see a tank that isn't at full hp if its not taking fire. Av players should be able to whittle down an havs hp over time but that's never going to happen if the HAV can regen to full hp in a matter of seconds all the time. Buff HP modules and nerf regen mods "That little sh*t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati
JudgeIsABadPilot Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 56	Posted - 2015.10.29 19:46:00 - [17] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: Just a little 'heads up' to the people jumping straight to "Tankers got it rough yo, get gud with your swarm and av nades bro." I am a tanker, the thing that annoys me is not tanks being unkillable, they aren't... They're just boring as ****. Something needs to change, because they're either kill everything or get insta-popped, there's no happy medium... I've pretty much given up on av vs vehicle, as it is inherently designed to be boring, but it would be nice if vehicle vs vehicle could be more interesting. Would honestly love it if we had to choose between outputting damage, tanking damage and repairing damage, though this would likely require a lot of work... It would add a lot of strategy to the (vehicle) game. That's what we had during Chromosome. But, as usual, the special snowflakes complained that it wasn't fair that pilots were braying the hell out of each other, and that they should be the sole effective means of destroying a tank. As such, that's why we're in this position of tanks being useless and infantry still complaining that their SMG can't destroy it.
Roger Cordill The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 457	Posted - 2015.10.30 04:08:00 - [18] - Quote Ardos 130297 wrote: I think, one of the problem is : No hardener on your tank = useless Hardener on your tank = too powerfull So, conclusion, you've got only 1 meta for tank player and it's very boring... The thing is, it used to not be like that, when there was much more variation, and reps weren't such trash.
Roger Cordill The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 457	Posted - 2015.10.30 04:12:00 - [19] - Quote JudgeIsABadPilot wrote: Derpty Derp wrote: Just a little 'heads up' to the people jumping straight to "Tankers got it rough yo, get gud with your swarm and av nades bro." I am a tanker, the thing that annoys me is not tanks being unkillable, they aren't... They're just boring as ****. Something needs to change, because they're either kill everything or get insta-popped, there's no happy medium... I've pretty much given up on av vs vehicle, as it is inherently designed to be boring, but it would be nice if vehicle vs vehicle could be more interesting. Would honestly love it if we had to choose between outputting damage, tanking damage and repairing damage, though this would likely require a lot of work... It would add a lot of strategy to the (vehicle) game. That's what we had during Chromosome. But, as usual, the special snowflakes complained that it wasn't fair that pilots were braying the hell out of each other, and that they should be the sole effective means of destroying a tank. As such, that's why we're in this position of tanks being useless and infantry still complaining that their SMG can't destroy it. Chromosome was extreme in that Rail Saggy's would pretty much own anything it shot at. After rails were adjusted to be a more lower damage, sustained weapon platform, it was far more balanced. If that change was done, Honestly Chromosome HAV's would be much more acceptable than current ones.
Mortedeamor The Black Masquerade 2	Posted - 2015.10.30 19:24:00 - [20] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: It seems the era of hardener stacking is still upon us - rejoice... I think vehicles would be more interesting if hardeners had a decent downside. Disable reps/recharge while active... Possibly have shields begin to recharge as soon as hardener is disabled. People will no longer be able to just activate hardeners to feel safe for a period of time, you must think if you need to tank or need to rep. Stacking multiple hardeners will still be viable, but you will need to plan ahead to make sure you can get to a safe place to regen, instead of just sitting around soaking up damage until it runs out. Thoughts? you know what would make vehicle vs av interesting if all av users got good and realized that their tears over their inadequacy have ruined vehicles vs av for years waaaa hardeners need nerfed waaaa people that know how to aim blasters get kills waaa rails can snipe waaa waa waaa waaa i wanna pop every vehicle on the map with my gun that requires 0 aiming because i need an ego boost due to have no real life accomplishments pc master race PORT IT CCP

Roger Cordill The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 467	Posted - 2015.10.30 19:38:00 - [21] - Quote Mortedeamor wrote: Derpty Derp wrote: It seems the era of hardener stacking is still upon us - rejoice... I think vehicles would be more interesting if hardeners had a decent downside. Disable reps/recharge while active... Possibly have shields begin to recharge as soon as hardener is disabled. People will no longer be able to just activate hardeners to feel safe for a period of time, you must think if you need to tank or need to rep. Stacking multiple hardeners will still be viable, but you will need to plan ahead to make sure you can get to a safe place to regen, instead of just sitting around soaking up damage until it runs out. Thoughts? you know what would make vehicle vs av interesting if all av users got good and realized that their tears over their inadequacy have ruined vehicles vs av for years waaaa hardeners need nerfed waaaa people that know how to aim blasters get kills waaa rails can snipe waaa waa waaa waaa i wanna pop every vehicle on the map with my gun that requires 0 aiming because i need an ego boost due to have no real life accomplishments The only thing I would have to disagree on is blasters, but not for the reason of killing infantry with them. Honestly, the autocannon-like platform should have been sidelined for medium turrets, and a more hard hitting, more alpha based gun (such as, like I've said over and over, a shotgun based platform) should have took its place. The reason why I say this is because trying to balance them all has turned into a **** show to be frank. People constantly want its effectiveness towards large targets curbed but it become essentially a large rifle, which infantry loathe, and it gets reblanced to soothe their nerves. Additionally, the devs always initially push it to be a superior close range platform, which also makes it the highest DPS platform, and most feel this isn't fair, as it's the premier infantry farming tool at the same time as previously stated. Large turrets suffer a similar situation to HAV's in that they aren't clearly designed and given a role accordingly, and if that's not done, then good luck on actually balancing them. I'd like to see that discussion go though, myself removed, because I have actually tried having such conversation, and nobody has yet taken such advise, with any power anyways...
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood 469	Posted - 2015.10.31 10:11:00 - [22] - Quote Hmm.... Don't like it? I'll tell you what. Vehicles + cap. That's all we need. Nuff said. Forever ADS. Best role.
Roger Cordill The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 471	Posted - 2015.11.01 03:51:00 - [23] - Quote Shamarskii Simon wrote: Hmm.... Don't like it? I'll tell you what. Vehicles + cap. That's all we need. Nuff said. Edit: think about it? Everything is different after that. vehicle v vehicle might get more fun (except ads v ads... That's actually so fun and truly is the only balanced thing anyone can do in dust imo) Nobody can complain about things being so binary, also. AV can get a neut kinda thing... Vehicles can too, or a vamp.. A little more dynamics for us all :D Plus, i heard if you're running multiple hards your cap just falls apart... Build that cap stable fit boi Put Cap in, remove uptime/downtime, switch skill to max cap and module usage drain... ORRRR we have to skill each module after awhile... Idk... But i feel that cap is the cure to all vehicle problems. ..Heck, maybe shield boost might actually work for everyone... [edited because i realized nuff said, wasn't enough said] I still don't believe that Caps would be well placed in Dust due to the maintaining factor that it has. It would only benefit vehicles that doesn't move much, as moving is a much more involved in Dust than it is in EVE, and requires more attention. Hell, even shooting does as well. EVE is built around managing systems, so it works well there. I wouldn't be opposed to a cloak-like system for all active modules for people to better manage the modules, pulling out the most performance from their modules when they need it, instead of having no control over the timings, but a completely unified system I just don't see working well. It would be interesting to see it actually tested though. This is why I wish we had some form of test server...
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood 475	Posted - 2015.11.01 04:00:00 - [24] - Quote Roger Cordill wrote: Shamarskii Simon wrote: Hmm.... Don't like it? I'll tell you what. Vehicles + cap. That's all we need. Nuff said. Edit: think about it? Everything is different after that. vehicle v vehicle might get more fun (except ads v ads... That's actually so fun and truly is the only balanced thing anyone can do in dust imo) Nobody can complain about things being so binary, also. AV can get a neut kinda thing... Vehicles can too, or a vamp.. A little more dynamics for us all :D Plus, i heard if you're running multiple hards your cap just falls apart... Build that cap stable fit boi Put Cap in, remove uptime/downtime, switch skill to max cap and module usage drain... ORRRR we have to skill each module after awhile... Idk... But i feel that cap is the cure to all vehicle problems. ..Heck, maybe shield boost might actually work for everyone... [edited because i realized nuff said, wasn't enough said] I still don't believe that Caps would be well placed in Dust due to the maintaining factor that it has. It would only benefit vehicles that doesn't move much, as moving is a much more involved in Dust than it is in EVE, and requires more attention. Hell, even shooting does as well. EVE is built around managing systems, so it works well there. I wouldn't be opposed to a cloak-like system for all active modules for people to better manage the modules, pulling out the most performance from their modules when they need it, instead of having no control over the timings, but a completely unified system I just don't see working well. It would be interesting to see it actually tested though. This is why I wish we had some form of test server... I see what you mean. Other contracts +1? Worked with teleporting Forever ADS. Best role.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 6	Posted - 2015.11.01 04:11:00 - [25] - Quote Roger Cordill wrote: Shamarskii Simon wrote: Hmm.... Don't like it? I'll tell you what. Vehicles + cap. That's all we need. Nuff said. Edit: think about it? Everything is different after that. vehicle v vehicle might get more fun (except ads v ads... That's actually so fun and truly is the only balanced thing anyone can do in dust imo) Nobody can complain about things being so binary, also. AV can get a neut kinda thing... Vehicles can too, or a vamp.. A little more dynamics for us all :D Plus, i heard if you're running multiple hards your cap just falls apart... Build that cap stable fit boi Put Cap in, remove uptime/downtime, switch skill to max cap and module usage drain... ORRRR we have to skill each module after awhile... Idk... But i feel that cap is the cure to all vehicle problems. ..Heck, maybe shield boost might actually work for everyone... [edited because i realized nuff said, wasn't enough said] I still don't believe that Caps would be well placed in Dust due to the maintaining factor that it has. It would only benefit vehicles that doesn't move much, as moving is a much more involved in Dust than it is in EVE, and requires more attention. Hell, even shooting does as well. EVE is built around managing systems, so it works well there. I wouldn't be opposed to a cloak-like system for all active modules for people to better manage the modules, pulling out the most performance from their modules when they need it, instead of having no control over the timings, but a completely unified system I just don't see working well. It would be interesting to see it actually tested though. This is why I wish we had some form of test server... To be honest the lack of micromanagement is what has caused tanking to take a downward spiral in both difficulty and fun. There is far less of a skill factor in piloting as there used to be and in my opinion, that is a huge negative. Back when tankers needed to cycle often 2-3 hardeners and 1-2 reppera constantly, plus other active modules like damage control units...tanking was an art form. Now you can pretty much derp you way to victory because of superior modules. "That little sh*t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati
Roger Cordill The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 471	Posted - 2015.11.01 07:54:00 - [26] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Roger Cordill wrote: Shamarskii Simon wrote: Hmm.... Don't like it? I'll tell you what. Vehicles + cap. That's all we need. Nuff said. Edit: think about it? Everything is different after that. vehicle v vehicle might get more fun (except ads v ads... That's actually so fun and truly is the only balanced thing anyone can do in dust imo) Nobody can complain about things being so binary, also. AV can get a neut kinda thing... Vehicles can too, or a vamp.. A little more dynamics for us all :D Plus, i heard if you're running multiple hards your cap just falls apart... Build that cap stable fit boi Put Cap in, remove uptime/downtime, switch skill to max cap and module usage drain... ORRRR we have to skill each module after awhile... Idk... But i feel that cap is the cure to all vehicle problems. ..Heck, maybe shield boost might actually work for everyone... [edited because i realized nuff said, wasn't enough said] I still don't believe that Caps would be well placed in Dust due to the maintaining factor that it has. It would only benefit vehicles that doesn't move much, as moving is a much more involved in Dust than it is in EVE, and requires more attention. Hell, even shooting does as well. EVE is built around managing systems, so it works well there. I wouldn't be opposed to a cloak-like system for all active modules for people to better manage the modules, pulling out the most performance from their modules when they need it, instead of having no control over the timings, but a completely unified system I just don't see working well. It would be interesting to see it actually tested though. This is why I wish we had some form of test server... To be honest the lack of micromanagement is what has caused tanking to take a downward spiral in both difficulty and fun. There is far less of a skill factor in piloting as there used to be and in my opinion, that is a huge negative. Back when tankers needed to cycle often 2-3 hardeners and 1-2 reppera constantly, plus other active modules like damage control units...tanking was an art form. Now you can pretty much derp you way to victory because of superior modules. Although that is true, Adding caps means you would have to manage all of that together, constantly having to think about what modules you have on, what modules drain more than others, etc. It's taking it a step too far in my opinion. It would be nice to receive a variation of modules, and more of a emphasis on active modules for "active" gameplay again though. And as I said, I wouldn't be opposed to Having a cloak-like system put into active modules, seeing as it would be more of a optional sort of thing.
Roger Cordill The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 471	Posted - 2015.11.01 07:56:00 - [27] - Quote Shamarskii Simon wrote: Roger Cordill wrote: Shamarskii Simon wrote: Hmm.... Don't like it? I'll tell you what. Vehicles + cap. That's all we need. Nuff said. Edit: think about it? Everything is different after that. vehicle v vehicle might get more fun (except ads v ads... That's actually so fun and truly is the only balanced thing anyone can do in dust imo) Nobody can complain about things being so binary, also. AV can get a neut kinda thing... Vehicles can too, or a vamp.. A little more dynamics for us all :D Plus, i heard if you're running multiple hards your cap just falls apart... Build that cap stable fit boi Put Cap in, remove uptime/downtime, switch skill to max cap and module usage drain... ORRRR we have to skill each module after awhile... Idk... But i feel that cap is the cure to all vehicle problems. ..Heck, maybe shield boost might actually work for everyone... [edited because i realized nuff said, wasn't enough said] I still don't believe that Caps would be well placed in Dust due to the maintaining factor that it has. It would only benefit vehicles that doesn't move much, as moving is a much more involved in Dust than it is in EVE, and requires more attention. Hell, even shooting does as well. EVE is built around managing systems, so it works well there. I wouldn't be opposed to a cloak-like system for all active modules for people to better manage the modules, pulling out the most performance from their modules when they need it, instead of having no control over the timings, but a completely unified system I just don't see working well. It would be interesting to see it actually tested though. This is why I wish we had some form of test server... I see what you mean. Other contracts +1? Worked with teleporting That is true. How would they implement it though? Make it to where Testing items are only allowed in there or something?
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood 476	Posted - 2015.11.01 11:02:00 - [28] - Quote Well you both have a point (pokey and Roger) See, micromanagement will separate the boys from the men. While you're going around... You have to think about your cap... How much do I have? Can i turn on a shield booster or armor repair if i need it? Will i use up my cap with my hybrid turret accidentally? What's the usage drain of the hardener looking like? This enemy tank has it's hardener on, but for how long? How much cap does the enemy have; how long will I wait? If i turn on all my modules can I quickly finish the fight or... Will I be completely exposed? A lot of questions come up... Good pilots will answer them correctly based on situation, bad pilots will not... Skill becomes so heavily involved now. But as Roger points out, a little too heavily involved for the type of system everyone is so used to. The good pilots will become the few, just like with ADS... Which I don't mind! But, it's the bad group that'll be up in arms on the forums... Tons will complain about the difficulty... Without a tutorial, many people won't even understand what cap is.... So why not change it to something we are all familiar with? Still... I prefer cap... Maybe i'd start writing down tank pilot names, too. if that happens. The way it would have to be implemented is like......... Any ordinary skirm, dom, etc... Just switch modules in that mode from typical on or off to use up, wait till full again. Forever ADS. Best role.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 21	Posted - 2015.11.01 16:04:00 - [29] - Quote Roger Cordill wrote: Although that is true, Adding caps means you would have to manage all of that together, constantly having to think about what modules you have on, what modules drain more than others, etc. It's taking it a step too far in my opinion. That's what I used to love about HAV gameplay back then. Guessing your opponents fits, memorizing how long their hardeners would operate for activating your modules at the exactly the right time. Micromanaging secondary defensive modules was an art form in its own way especially when you learned what you could survive when combining modules. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 6	Posted - 2015.11.01 23:43:00 - [30] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Roger Cordill wrote: Although that is true, Adding caps means you would have to manage all of that together, constantly having to think about what modules you have on, what modules drain more than others, etc. It's taking it a step too far in my opinion. That's what I used to love about HAV gameplay back then. Guessing your opponents fits, memorizing how long their hardeners would operate for activating your modules at the exactly the right time. Micromanaging secondary defensive modules was an art form in its own way especially when you learned what you could survive when combining modules. Pretty much. I got to a point where I didnt even really look at my icons because I was counting in my head the seconds I had left on my reps, hardeners, DCUs, ect. and plotting paths of escape knowing how long it would take to get there. It was challenging and it was fun. But now? Eh? Flip hardener on, when that one is up flip the other on. That's about all there is to it and a large reason why I really dislike piloting now. Do we need a full on cap system? Maybe not. But the current philosophy is so painful unimaginative and boring, that it's really not fun anymore and applying arbitrary debuffs when a hardener is active not going to fix that underlying issue. It'll still be boring, just less effective. "That little sh*t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati

JudgeIsABadPilot Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 61	Posted - 2015.11.02 01:21:00 - [31] - Quote Roger Cordill wrote: It would be interesting to see it actually tested though. This is why I wish we had some form of test server... As if they would allow changes of that type to be tested.
JudgeIsABadPilot Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 61	Posted - 2015.11.02 01:22:00 - [32] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: To be honest the lack of micromanagement is what has caused tanking to take a downward spiral in both difficulty and fun. There is far less of a skill factor in piloting as there used to be and in my opinion, that is a huge negative. Back when tankers needed to cycle often 2-3 hardeners and 1-2 reppera constantly, plus other active modules like damage control units...tanking was an art form. Now you can pretty much derp you way to victory because of superior modules. As if you'd know anything about module management.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 6	Posted - 2015.11.02 03:29:00 - [33] - Quote JudgeIsABadPilot wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: To be honest the lack of micromanagement is what has caused tanking to take a downward spiral in both difficulty and fun. There is far less of a skill factor in piloting as there used to be and in my opinion, that is a huge negative. Back when tankers needed to cycle often 2-3 hardeners and 1-2 reppera constantly, plus other active modules like damage control units...tanking was an art form. Now you can pretty much derp you way to victory because of superior modules. As if you'd know anything about module management. As if you'd know anything about me. Spkr alt confirmed? "That little sh*t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.11.02 05:47:00 - [34] - Quote Ok, the base premise is interesting. Hardeners shut off reps. On the surface my gut says "Bad idea." What if hardeners were simply a toggle, or had a cooldown regeneration like a cloaking device? The idea becomes something more akin to resource management than passively winning at that point, with agreater return for fitting hit point mods, and less hardeners. Thoughts? WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 6	Posted - 2015.11.02 06:02:00 - [35] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Ok, the base premise is interesting. Hardeners shut off reps. On the surface my gut says "Bad idea." What if hardeners were simply a toggle, or had a cooldown regeneration like a cloaking device? The idea becomes something more akin to resource management than passively winning at that point, with agreater return for fitting hit point mods, and less hardeners. Thoughts? I'd love this for most vehicle modules, hardeners and regen mods included. "That little sh*t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.11.02 06:09:00 - [36] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Ok, the base premise is interesting. Hardeners shut off reps. On the surface my gut says "Bad idea." What if hardeners were simply a toggle, or had a cooldown regeneration like a cloaking device? The idea becomes something more akin to resource management than passively winning at that point, with agreater return for fitting hit point mods, and less hardeners. Thoughts? I'd love this for most vehicle modules, hardeners and regen mods included. to elaborate, hardeners shut off reps but they are a toggle. you can have a hardened vehicle, or you can repair. One or the otehr, with the hardener toggled on or off being the determining factor of which you are doing. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Racro 01 Arifistan Simple Minded People Pty. Ltd. 613	Posted - 2015.11.02 15:32:00 - [37] - Quote ccp should take the easy route and leave AV as it is and return the way vehicles were/operated and thier varients including the ones they took away back to chromosome and everyone will be in a state of holy balance......... plus i gte my Surya back that i have longed for. surya and sagaris....R.I.P untill you hit the factory lines again. https://zkillboard.com/kill/47521458/ https://zkillboard.com/kill/47521142 Oppose me and you shall incure my wrath.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.11.02 19:06:00 - [38] - Quote Racro 01 Arifistan wrote: ccp should take the easy route and leave AV as it is and return the way vehicles were/operated and thier varients including the ones they took away back to chromosome and everyone will be in a state of holy balance......... plus i gte my Surya back that i have longed for. surya and sagaris....R.I.P untill you hit the factory lines again. If CCP did that AV would have to go back to chrome levels as well. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 6	Posted - 2015.11.02 20:32:00 - [39] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Ok, the base premise is interesting. Hardeners shut off reps. On the surface my gut says "Bad idea." What if hardeners were simply a toggle, or had a cooldown regeneration like a cloaking device? The idea becomes something more akin to resource management than passively winning at that point, with agreater return for fitting hit point mods, and less hardeners. Thoughts? I'd love this for most vehicle modules, hardeners and regen mods included. to elaborate, hardeners shut off reps but they are a toggle. you can have a hardened vehicle, or you can repair. One or the otehr, with the hardener toggled on or off being the determining factor of which you are doing. -_- dude really? Why are we STILL dancing around these silly ideas instead of going back to a tried and true system of active reps? "That little sh*t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati
Mex-0 Corrosive Synergy 923	Posted - 2015.11.02 20:57:00 - [40] - Quote I liked it back in the day when you could kill a tank with 3 RE's and a flux. Minmatar at heart

CLONE117 True Pros Forever 915	Posted - 2015.11.02 21:33:00 - [41] - Quote i liked having a triple complex reps maddy with 4k armour and a regain of 500 hps.. i swear that was the only thing ccp nerfed from this whole entire thing. everything else was basically left untouched. great potential is always there.. it just has yet to be realized
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.11.02 22:33:00 - [42] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: to elaborate, hardeners shut off reps but they are a toggle. you can have a hardened vehicle, or you can repair. One or the otehr, with the hardener toggled on or off being the determining factor of which you are doing. This sounds a lot better, I could just imagine 2 tanks with missiles switching off the hardener while the other reloads, hoping they don't fire before full reload. Not sure about the 5 second delay before hardener activates... Would need to test before making a call on that... Though I imagine the average av would get sick of tanks timing their hardener/rep just right and staying at full health. Maybe dropping the delay a bit would be best.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 21	Posted - 2015.11.02 23:43:00 - [43] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Ok, the base premise is interesting. Hardeners shut off reps. On the surface my gut says "Bad idea." What if hardeners were simply a toggle, or had a cooldown regeneration like a cloaking device? The idea becomes something more akin to resource management than passively winning at that point, with agreater return for fitting hit point mods, and less hardeners. Thoughts? I'd love this for most vehicle modules, hardeners and regen mods included. to elaborate, hardeners shut off reps but they are a toggle. you can have a hardened vehicle, or you can repair. One or the otehr, with the hardener toggled on or off being the determining factor of which you are doing. -_- dude really? Why are we STILL dancing around these silly ideas instead of going back to a tried and true system of active reps? 100% the truth. The hell are we not understanding that Chromosome and the beginning of Uprising were the only times we've have relatively balance and interesting HAV models. Everything after 1.7 has been a bloody joke. Sure take AV back to those days but then I get my turrets with 200m ranges as well. Better that old model than what we have now, Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.11.03 00:11:00 - [44] - Quote My original proposal was a slightly adjusted direct cut of chromosome with a couple tweaks directed at surya supremacy. It didn't fly. I'm not going to bang my head on the same wall over and over. So i will keep tossing out ideas until something sticks and works. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 6	Posted - 2015.11.03 01:12:00 - [45] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: My original proposal was a slightly adjusted direct cut of chromosome with a couple tweaks directed at surya supremacy. It didn't fly. I'm not going to bang my head on the same wall over and over. So i will keep tossing out ideas until something sticks and works. Then at the very least push for a slower higher HP model instead of this super repping speed model we currently have. I'd rather have slower reps and a lot more HP to work with. "That little sh*t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.11.03 06:28:00 - [46] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: My original proposal was a slightly adjusted direct cut of chromosome with a couple tweaks directed at surya supremacy. It didn't fly. I'm not going to bang my head on the same wall over and over. So i will keep tossing out ideas until something sticks and works. Then at the very least push for a slower higher HP model instead of this super repping speed model we currently have. I'd rather have slower reps and a lot more HP to work with. Honestly as long as hardeners give more overall mitigation than actual plates and extenders, that probably won't happen. I'd prefer a model where HP mods synergize more with hardeners than with the reps. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 6	Posted - 2015.11.03 13:16:00 - [47] - Quote They only do that because rep levels are so high and have zero downtime, thus encouraging stacking. Reps that never turn off behave effectively like a plate because they provide consistent mitigation. That's why active reps are so important. "That little sh*t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati
THEAMAZING POTHEAD Nyain San 1	Posted - 2015.11.03 15:01:00 - [48] - Quote Y'all understand that tanks are probably the most garbage they've ever been right? Besides maybe right when uprising started and they couldn't even aim up 2 degrees and were slower than a gerbal carrying an HMG. And the reason they added hardeners is because everyone and their mothers had proto AV, then had proto AV on commandos, meaning ever since commandos got buffs theres been at least 2 proto AVs per team, usually 2-3. In like 5% of games are there less than 2 proto AVs on you in 1 minute after the tank is noticed. Add to this horrible blasters and 12k hp turrets everywhere. Honestly saying tanks are even relevant shows you don't play this game. I haven't gotten killed by a blaster tank LITERALLY since the blaster nerf. Not joking, not exaggerating, literally have not been killed by one. Gotten rail sniped 2 or 3 times, but never blaster'd. And thats with me standing still corner popping with laser rifles. Your post is making me facepalm. ò.ó Nyan!~~=[,,..,,]:3 Nyain SanGäó (rated ® for rape) is currently accepting hatemails.
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 1	Posted - 2015.11.04 11:47:00 - [49] - Quote Mex-0 wrote: I liked it back in the day when you could kill a tank with 3 RE's and a flux. HAVs need slowed down, massively. Primarily it's their acceleration: HAVs go from 0-60 in about a second, which is just waaay too fast. Slow down HAV acceleration and there'll be a marked improvement in V/V and V/AV fights. Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood 493	Posted - 2015.11.04 12:17:00 - [50] - Quote Again, after reading the forum for a second time.... It just looks like vehicles need to take the EvE path. Honestly. Forever ADS. Best role.

Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.11.04 14:09:00 - [51] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Mex-0 wrote: I liked it back in the day when you could kill a tank with 3 RE's and a flux. HAVs need slowed down, massively. Primarily it's their acceleration: HAVs go from 0-60 in about a second, which is just waaay too fast. Slow down HAV acceleration and there'll be a marked improvement in V/V and V/AV fights. On one hand, I'd like to agree, on the other I feel it may become too easy for scouts to pogo past a tank and throw lai dai's at the weakspot... Effectively returning us to redline-rail-514Gäó I also worry it may just turn tank battles into 2 tanks sitting still pew-pewing each other, because any slow movement will throw off your aim, while the other tank can easily track you without missing. Perhaps just movement speed reduction during active module use? Also tempted to say remove fuel injectors from tanks, but with LAV's having so few slots and being so squishy, it would effectively make them unused (excluding the occasional suicide jeep.)
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 1	Posted - 2015.11.04 19:37:00 - [52] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Mex-0 wrote: I liked it back in the day when you could kill a tank with 3 RE's and a flux. HAVs need slowed down, massively. Primarily it's their acceleration: HAVs go from 0-60 in about a second, which is just waaay too fast. Slow down HAV acceleration and there'll be a marked improvement in V/V and V/AV fights. On one hand, I'd like to agree, on the other I feel it may become too easy for scouts to pogo past a tank and throw lai dai's at the weakspot... Effectively returning us to redline-rail-514Gäó I also worry it may just turn tank battles into 2 tanks sitting still pew-pewing each other, because any slow movement will throw off your aim, while the other tank can easily track you without missing. Perhaps just movement speed reduction during active module use? Also tempted to say remove fuel injectors from tanks, but with LAV's having so few slots and being so squishy, it would effectively make them unused (excluding the occasional suicide jeep.) I don't think changing movement alone would make V/V/AV balanced, but it'd be a good step. I do agree with those who want to move to a higher HP/lower regen model, and the movement change would be a good part of that. Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. 4	Posted - 2015.11.04 19:54:00 - [53] - Quote Shamarskii Simon wrote: Again, after reading the forum for a second time.... It just looks like vehicles need to take the EvE path. Honestly. CCP will never add capacitors, the butthurt of AV/infantry over a pilots ability to micromanage every module to the point of being able to survive quite well and against the odds due to pilots skill will overload the forum. It was bad enough in Chromosome and before that, even Uprising and the shambles that was the vehicle rework did that twice more and that was when pilots lost more skills, modules, perks and vehicles/slots. CCP Rattati - "One giant vehicle nerf with more power to AV", you have got to be kidding...''
Roger Cordill The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 480	Posted - 2015.11.10 21:16:00 - [54] - Quote Shamarskii Simon wrote: Well you both have a point (pokey and Roger) See, micromanagement will separate the boys from the men. While you're going around... You have to think about your cap... How much do I have? Can i turn on a shield booster or armor repair if i need it? Will i use up my cap with my hybrid turret accidentally? What's the usage drain of the hardener looking like? This enemy tank has it's hardener on, but for how long? How much cap does the enemy have; how long will I wait? If i turn on all my modules can I quickly finish the fight or... Will I be completely exposed? A lot of questions come up... Good pilots will answer them correctly based on situation, bad pilots will not... Skill becomes so heavily involved now. But as Roger points out, a little too heavily involved for the type of system everyone is so used to. The good pilots will become the few, just like with ADS... Which I don't mind! But, it's the bad group that'll be up in arms on the forums... Tons will complain about the difficulty... Without a tutorial, many people won't even understand what cap is.... So why not change it to something we are all familiar with? Still... I prefer cap... Maybe i'd start writing down tank pilot names, too. if that happens. The way it would have to be implemented is like......... Any ordinary skirm, dom, etc... Just switch modules in that mode from typical on or off to use up, wait till full again. I don't think the idea of a management system is bad, I just think it being unified is the bad part, because it adds a full layer of things you have to think about, and seeing as HAV's are becoming more and more like glass cannons, that is something that isn't recommended. It would be fine if it was separate, like cloaks (so in a sense, a Cap for all the modules), as you can easily look at the modules in a sweep and see what can/should/needs to be turned on or off at any given moment. You'd think that would be slower or more clunky, but compared to having to crunch math in your head, scanning and thinking would be a lot easier, and it would still stay true to the more action-based style of Dust.
Roger Cordill The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 480	Posted - 2015.11.10 21:23:00 - [55] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Roger Cordill wrote: Although that is true, Adding caps means you would have to manage all of that together, constantly having to think about what modules you have on, what modules drain more than others, etc. It's taking it a step too far in my opinion. That's what I used to love about HAV gameplay back then. Guessing your opponents fits, memorizing how long their hardeners would operate for activating your modules at the exactly the right time. Micromanaging secondary defensive modules was an art form in its own way especially when you learned what you could survive when combining modules. This is not the same as calculating numbers to figure out these times however. My suggested system would be however, due to the nature of it being similar to the current way, with just enough tools to get a bit of managing with it. In a way, it would expand that art even further. It just wouldn't expand it so much that it's too much to bear for 95% of the game's population (which it would be in most situations, unless HAV's were sniping at stuff, in which it wouldn't matter much, but that's not necessarily fun though, nor does it cover the roles and combat philosophies in the game).
Roger Cordill The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 480	Posted - 2015.11.10 21:24:00 - [56] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: True Adamance wrote: Roger Cordill wrote: Although that is true, Adding caps means you would have to manage all of that together, constantly having to think about what modules you have on, what modules drain more than others, etc. It's taking it a step too far in my opinion. That's what I used to love about HAV gameplay back then. Guessing your opponents fits, memorizing how long their hardeners would operate for activating your modules at the exactly the right time. Micromanaging secondary defensive modules was an art form in its own way especially when you learned what you could survive when combining modules. Pretty much. I got to a point where I didnt even really look at my icons because I was counting in my head the seconds I had left on my reps, hardeners, DCUs, ect. and plotting paths of escape knowing how long it would take to get there. It was challenging and it was fun. But now? Eh? Flip hardener on, when that one is up flip the other on. That's about all there is to it and a large reason why I really dislike piloting now. Do we need a full on cap system? Maybe not. But the current philosophy is so painful unimaginative and boring, that it's really not fun anymore and applying arbitrary debuffs when a hardener is active not going to fix that underlying issue. It'll still be boring, just less effective. This is basically my view.
Roger Cordill The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 480	Posted - 2015.11.10 21:27:00 - [57] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Ok, the base premise is interesting. Hardeners shut off reps. On the surface my gut says "Bad idea." What if hardeners were simply a toggle, or had a cooldown regeneration like a cloaking device? The idea becomes something more akin to resource management than passively winning at that point, with agreater return for fitting hit point mods, and less hardeners. Thoughts? I'd love this for most vehicle modules, hardeners and regen mods included. to elaborate, hardeners shut off reps but they are a toggle. you can have a hardened vehicle, or you can repair. One or the otehr, with the hardener toggled on or off being the determining factor of which you are doing. I'd rather they just both regen. What's the deal with actually bringing back active reps? When the previous devs removed them, was the ability to bring them back also removed?
Roger Cordill The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 480	Posted - 2015.11.10 21:27:00 - [58] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Racro 01 Arifistan wrote: ccp should take the easy route and leave AV as it is and return the way vehicles were/operated and thier varients including the ones they took away back to chromosome and everyone will be in a state of holy balance......... plus i gte my Surya back that i have longed for. surya and sagaris....R.I.P untill you hit the factory lines again. If CCP did that AV would have to go back to chrome levels as well. Which I would be fine with tbh. AV wasn't an issue during Chrome. Rail Sagaris were.
Roger Cordill The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 480	Posted - 2015.11.10 21:31:00 - [59] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Mex-0 wrote: I liked it back in the day when you could kill a tank with 3 RE's and a flux. HAVs need slowed down, massively. Primarily it's their acceleration: HAVs go from 0-60 in about a second, which is just waaay too fast. Slow down HAV acceleration and there'll be a marked improvement in V/V and V/AV fights. I imagine a 20-30% in acceleration nerf would do the trick while making nitro still worthwhile to actually fit.
DEATH THE KlD Imperfect - Bastards 758	Posted - 2015.11.11 04:30:00 - [60] - Quote Sounds like something making my ads even worse CEO of Imperfect Bastards and NF -Heimdallr69 Imps>NS>NF

Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 1	Posted - 2015.11.11 22:19:00 - [61] - Quote DEATH THE KlD wrote: Sounds like something making my ads even worse took the words right out of my mouth. If anything, separate ads modules from tanks modules. tweak tank modules to be effective for tanks and air modules for the ships. light modules will just be a nice middle ground. then you can mess around with tanks and suit them for ground risk v reward and tweak ships for air risk vs reward. e.g. higher active reps being a tank module, and continuous lower reps for the dropships,. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me. "I sometimes wonder why I share stuff "- CCP Rattati
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.11.12 05:30:00 - [62] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: light modules will just be a nice middle ground. I'd honestly just flat out replace them with the air modules... Haven't used them on anything in ages... ads/LAV might as well be left unfit rather than waste the money fitting light mods, lol.
Tebu Gan Capital Acquisitions LLC 1	Posted - 2015.11.12 16:20:00 - [63] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: My original proposal was a slightly adjusted direct cut of chromosome with a couple tweaks directed at surya supremacy. It didn't fly. I'm not going to bang my head on the same wall over and over. So i will keep tossing out ideas until something sticks and works. Then at the very least push for a slower higher HP model instead of this super repping speed model we currently have. I'd rather have slower reps and a lot more HP to work with. And this would no doubt have great benefit to the gunnlogi. Considering there is no such thing as "super repping" where they are concerned. I certainly wouldn't mind having an active shield rep opposed to the silly instant single rep.
Tebu Gan Capital Acquisitions LLC 1	Posted - 2015.11.12 16:38:00 - [64] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: They only do that because rep levels are so high and have zero downtime, thus encouraging stacking. Reps that never turn off behave effectively like a plate because they provide consistent mitigation. That's why active reps are so important. Totally on point. I just want to note though that the king fit atm is the 1 rep, 1 plate, double hardener setup. It utilizes much of what is available. I'd rather see a shift to active reps, so that they fall into the "waves of opportunity" model that is STILL in effect but has yet to be utilized. From there a reduction to hardener effectiveness and a proportionate increase to plate efficiency. Shift the meta away from hardener stacking and to raw HP with limited reps. I think the main issue here is that AV feel often times like they are literally hitting an indestructible wall. You can shoot and shoot all you want at that maddie, but in the hardener cycle you simply won't make any progress. I think it would be healthy if a single AV user could at least WEAKEN a tank. The main point being that while you won't have an easy time killing one still yet, at least you can make noticeable progress towards that goal. And honestly, I think an HP focused model would do wonders for the gunnlogi. It's still an under performing POS. But with a higher base HP and less resistances AND a slower active rep (over the single burst), they could really make use of their shield regeneration. Right now everything is more or less burst focused, burst reps, burst healing, ect. In the gunnlogis case, base shield regeneration just doesn't have anything burst about it. Then again, many of a gunnlogis issues do stem from the inability to make a fit even halfway comparable to a maddie.
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood 500	Posted - 2015.11.12 20:18:00 - [65] - Quote DEATH THE KlD wrote: Sounds like something making my ads even worse If only i can like a post more... You sir... Speechless. Forever ADS. Best role.
maybe deadcatz Serris Inc 1	Posted - 2015.11.13 03:29:00 - [66] - Quote Here's a quick idea. Hardener stops 60-70% damage. Only one hardener per fit. Acitve hardener stops armour rep/sheild charge(wichever type you activate.) Small hav HP buff It doesn't seem right you can rep while your vehicles nanites are in hardened mode. It doesn't make sense that you can charge your hav sheilds while all power is being used to harden them. Ha!You can't kill me! I'm already dead!
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 21	Posted - 2015.11.13 22:21:00 - [67] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Ok, the base premise is interesting. Hardeners shut off reps. On the surface my gut says "Bad idea." What if hardeners were simply a toggle, or had a cooldown regeneration like a cloaking device? The idea becomes something more akin to resource management than passively winning at that point, with agreater return for fitting hit point mods, and less hardeners. Thoughts? Stupid ******* idea. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 21	Posted - 2015.11.13 22:22:00 - [68] - Quote maybe deadcatz wrote: Here's a quick idea. Hardener stops 60-70% damage. Only one hardener per fit. Acitve hardener stops armour rep/sheild charge(wichever type you activate.) Small hav HP buff It doesn't seem right you can rep while your vehicles nanites are in hardened mode. It doesn't make sense that you can charge your hav sheilds while all power is being used to harden them. Also a genuinely terrible idea that takes the worst of what we have now and amplifies it to unbearable levels. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 7	Posted - 2015.11.14 00:38:00 - [69] - Quote True Adamance wrote: maybe deadcatz wrote: Here's a quick idea. Hardener stops 60-70% damage. Only one hardener per fit. Acitve hardener stops armour rep/sheild charge(wichever type you activate.) Small hav HP buff It doesn't seem right you can rep while your vehicles nanites are in hardened mode. It doesn't make sense that you can charge your hav sheilds while all power is being used to harden them. Also a genuinely terrible idea that takes the worst of what we have now and amplifies it to unbearable levels. Ok first of all, limiting flexibility of fitting is exactly what we're trying to avoid, and is hardly the only option available. Secondly, let me see if I can explain why this whole "no reps while hardened" doesn't really make sense. --- Back when we had active reps, this is typically how the battle process would flow. Hardener Off Rep Off Start taking damage, activate hardeners to reduce incoming damage. Once HP gets low, you are now in a vulnerable state because you are close to death. Activate reps/boosters to regenerate HP and get out of the vulnerable state. That being said, reps were really only used once you were in danger of dying. --- Fast forward to present time. If we go with a model where passive reps are turned off when hardeners are on, and vice versa. Start taking damage, activate hardeners to reduce incoming damage. (This much is the same) Once HP gets low, you are now in a vulnerable state because you are close to death. Here is the dilemma. You have low HP, so you need reps to get it back. But in order to do so, you have to deactivate your hardener, which means you are now going to be taking additional damage, in an attempt to regenerate HP lost from taking damage. So in effect, you're now going from a vulnerable state, to an even more vulnerable state in order to get out of it. Player response to this will likely be one of two things: Pilots will deactivate hardeners and activate reps at a much higher HP so that they can try to ride their unhardened HP in an attempt to run away and recover the raw HP without being shot. This will simply decrease the operational time that vehicles can exist under fire, which would basically be a nerf to vehicles, but do absolutely nothing in terms of making AV/Vehicle interplay more enjoyable. Players will completely forgo hardeners and run speedy regen fits in an attempt to make up for the loss of eHP with raw damage negation from passive reps. This will likely end up being a general nerf as well, as the lack of HP means they'll be more readily bursted down. And again, offers nothing in terms of improving the overall enjoyability of the interplay. I'm sorry but you simply are not going to fix the boring nature of vehicles by pushing numbers around and giving arbitrary limitations to how modules work. At least not with any of the solutions I've seen so far. "That little sh*t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati
shaman oga Dead Man's Game 4	Posted - 2015.11.14 10:12:00 - [70] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: Thoughts? **** passive rep Regressed to blueberry level.

Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.11.14 10:14:00 - [71] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Fast forward to present time. If we go with a model where passive reps are turned off when hardeners are on, and vice versa. Start taking damage, activate hardeners to reduce incoming damage. (This much is the same) Once HP gets low, you are now in a vulnerable state because you are close to death. Here is the dilemma. You have low HP, so you need reps to get it back. But in order to do so, you have to deactivate your hardener, which means you are now going to be taking additional damage, in an attempt to regenerate HP lost from taking damage. So in effect, you're now going from a vulnerable state, to an even more vulnerable state in order to get out of it. With active reps you can sit there hardened while taking damage, using the reps to allow sustained fire, every time you can shoot you can delay the av from shooting back, repping up your hp and allowing for further sustain, which basically makes it ** easy to stay alive while pooping on everyone with a blaster (large or small.) You hit the "no reps while hardened" point right on the head, it stops the continuous sustain, you either kill the av or gtfo (or die.) The idea being that you run before you're screwed, not while still being screwed... Flip to reps when you think you're safe. Pokey Dravon wrote:** Players will completely forgo hardeners and run speedy regen fits in an attempt to make up for the loss of eHP with raw damage negation from passive reps. This will likely end up being a general nerf as well, as the lack of HP means they'll be more readily bursted down. And again, offers nothing in terms of improving the overall enjoyability of the interplay. They'll soon stop once they realise that means getting instapopped by a breach forge/av grenade/...Everything... The logical move would be to build more armour and less reps. No more sitting around repping back to full health and speeding away, the armour will slow them down, helping to alleviate the speedy tank problem. All in all vehicle vs vehicle would become more interesting, because instead of the current 1 tactic meta of "dual harden or die" you have the option to build health and continue that, but without the sustain from repping, or you can strategically position yourself to hit up 1 hardener -> avoid damage and rep -> hit up a second hardener and continue to poop on the enemy. This would also allow LAV's and Dropships to actually deal damage to tanks again.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 7	Posted - 2015.11.14 18:39:00 - [72] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: With active reps you can sit there hardened while taking damage, using the reps to allow sustained fire, every time you can shoot you can delay the av from shooting back, repping up your hp and allowing for further sustain, which basically makes it ** easy to stay alive while pooping on everyone with a blaster (large or small.) You hit the "no reps while hardened" point right on the head, it stops the continuous sustain, you either kill the av or gtfo (or die.) The idea being that you run before you're screwed, not while still being screwed... Flip to reps when you think you're safe. The key difference being is that sure, you can sit and rep through incoming damage while hardened, but once those reps finished, that was all the HP were you going to get for the next 30-40 seconds, meaning if you took additional damage after that, you were in trouble because you were not going to be getting it back for over half a minute. Additionally it was part of the meta to attempt to bait the tank into activating his reps early in order to force him to open up that window of opportunity 15 seconds later where he would not have access to HP regeneration. And while it went through phases of being OP and UP, ask almost any HAV pilot and they will tell you that that system was FAR more enjoyable over what we have now. Make it so pilots have to drop hardeners to rep and I guarantee the player reaction will be a sharp shift towards redline sniping, because the operational time that a pilot can exist under fire will be so short, and the required conditions to regenerate HP will be so strict, that they'll simply avoid taking that risk entirely. Derpty Derp wrote:** All in all vehicle vs vehicle would become more interesting, because instead of the current 1 tactic meta of "dual harden or die" you have the option to build health and continue that, but without the sustain from repping, or you can strategically position yourself to hit up 1 hardener -> avoid damage and rep -> hit up a second hardener and continue to poop on the enemy. This would also allow LAV's and Dropships to actually deal damage to tanks again. Players will still fit a ton of hardeners because they want to be able to stay in the fight longer by resisting as much damage as possible, and then sure, flee to a spot where they can flip off the hardeners and rep up. Would it be a direct nerf to tanking? Absolutely. Would it change up the fitting meta? Not really. Especially since you can't rep while hardened, you'll want as high of a resistance of possible and avoid high amounts of base HP because you want to be able to get back to full HP as quickly as possible to minimize the amount of time you need to be behind cover in order to recover that HP. "That little sh*t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.11.15 14:56:00 - [73] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: ask almost any HAV pilot and they will tell you that that system was FAR more enjoyable over what we have now. A turd on a stick would be more enjoyable than current tanking. If we go back to active reps, tank-tards will cry "it's too hard, we need higher reps" then it will happen and we'll have it even worse than now, it truly will be immortal tanks, for however long the active reps last, which with the main problem of the whole game (tiny **** maps) will be a useless downside, because everyone will be back safely in the redzone with time to spare, followed by repping at the supply depo (if there is one.) Pokey Dravon wrote: Make it so pilots have to drop hardeners to rep and I guarantee the player reaction will be a sharp shift towards redline sniping, because the player base is ** and no one has any balls. This wouldn't be a shift at all... the majority of tankers will be found in the redzone, some will stay there the whole match (and get jihaad jeeped if I see them) while the rest will stare at the map waiting for that opportunity to pop out with all their modules active, take a kill, then hide to look at the map again (or spin the view looking for red dots to pop up... Glitch has been in the game too long! as with all of them.) Honestly large turrets should have their range dropped to that of infantry weapons, that's the only thing that would stop redzoning... Feel free to shout "but the blaster will destroy everything at that range" because it does nothing but farm infantry, at any range the rail with heat sync *** on everything.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 7	Posted - 2015.11.15 17:36:00 - [74] - Quote You mean pilots will actually have to have micromanagement skills to handle all of the modules? Sounds like a positive change in my book, any monkey can handle the current system just fine, which is why it is boring as hell. "That little sh*t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.11.15 17:40:00 - [75] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: You mean pilots will actually have to have micromanagement skills to handle all of the modules? Sounds like a positive change in my book, any monkey can handle the current system just fine, which is why it is boring as hell. This isn't a cv bro, no need to oversell yourself... I quite clearly mean get into a fight and spam modules, the same as we do now, but with 1 more to spam.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 7	Posted - 2015.11.15 18:13:00 - [76] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: You mean pilots will actually have to have micromanagement skills to handle all of the modules? Sounds like a positive change in my book, any monkey can handle the current system just fine, which is why it is boring as hell. This isn't a cv bro, no need to oversell yourself... I quite clearly mean get into a fight and spam modules, the same as we do now, but with 1 more to spam. Well there is more to piloting than just the moment of engagement but I think I've explained my point completely at this point. "That little sh*t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 21	Posted - 2015.11.15 20:01:00 - [77] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Derpty Derp wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: You mean pilots will actually have to have micromanagement skills to handle all of the modules? Sounds like a positive change in my book, any monkey can handle the current system just fine, which is why it is boring as hell. This isn't a cv bro, no need to oversell yourself... I quite clearly mean get into a fight and spam modules, the same as we do now, but with 1 more to spam. Well there is more to piloting than just the moment of engagement but I think I've explained my point completely at this point. To be fair to Pokey that was how Dust 514 vehicle operation used to function. Knowing module timer cycles, what kinds of repairs or hardeners were being used, having the requisite skills and turrets, and knowing how to best employ your slow turning and drive capabilities was essential. Sweeping in from behind a tank even in a lesser one with a much shoddier fit was a sure fire kill or at least a detrimental blow against the other pilots almost every time. I mean I used to recon the battlefield for minutes before deploying my tank to a specific area calculating effective HP, monitoring gunners and turret types, etc and then trying to predict the surest path to rear armour advantage. I love that. It made tank combat go beyond who was stacking the most hardeners. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 7	Posted - 2015.11.15 20:43:00 - [78] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Derpty Derp wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: You mean pilots will actually have to have micromanagement skills to handle all of the modules? Sounds like a positive change in my book, any monkey can handle the current system just fine, which is why it is boring as hell. This isn't a cv bro, no need to oversell yourself... I quite clearly mean get into a fight and spam modules, the same as we do now, but with 1 more to spam. Well there is more to piloting than just the moment of engagement but I think I've explained my point completely at this point. To be fair to Pokey that was how Dust 514 vehicle operation used to function. Knowing module timer cycles, what kinds of repairs or hardeners were being used, having the requisite skills and turrets, and knowing how to best employ your slow turning and drive capabilities was essential. Sweeping in from behind a tank even in a lesser one with a much shoddier fit was a sure fire kill or at least a detrimental blow against the other pilots almost every time. I mean I used to recon the battlefield for minutes before deploying my tank to a specific area calculating effective HP, monitoring gunners and turret types, etc and then trying to predict the surest path to rear armour advantage. I love that. It made tank combat go beyond who was stacking the most hardeners. Hehe I hear ya. I used to use a Commando with Swarms and a Sniper Rifle. I'd check the HAV's HP with the Sniper Rifle, then ping it a couple times with the swarms to check for regen rates and cycle times on its hardeners and calculate the most likely fit it was running at the time, then deploy an HAV tailored to countering it. I miss my 2 hardener, 180mm plate, heavy and light rep fit... "That little sh*t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. 4	Posted - 2015.11.15 23:41:00 - [79] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: You mean pilots will actually have to have micromanagement skills to handle all of the modules? Sounds like a positive change in my book, any monkey can handle the current system just fine, which is why it is boring as hell. I did that 3 years ago in replication with a madrugar with 8 active modules and eventually it got nerfed, modules taken away, skills taken away, turetts taken away, everything taken away. Game advances 3 years and it can only get worse when people are aksing for things 3 years ago. CCP Rattati - "One giant vehicle nerf with more power to AV", you have got to be kidding...''


Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online/DUST514, the EVE/DUST514 logo, EVE/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to OMG Labs to use EVE Online/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, OMG Labs. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.