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This Is What Proto Squads Do To Noobs In Pubs

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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Four Horseman Tactical Agency 2	Posted - 2015.10.12 23:35:00 - [31] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Thumb Green wrote: Press Attache wrote: If people playing hard ruins the game to you, take it up with CCP. I don't agree, but see where it gets you. People running off players ruins the game for me. CCP isn't to blame for these people doing so, it's a choice they have made. Sure there are things CCP can do to mitigate it (such as locking proto/officer out of pubs) but there's only so much they're willing to do and can do. But again you can't blame CCP for these people choosing to do what they do. It's a video game. I doubt CCP could have expected so many would be scared of getting killed in a video game. It's just not logical. Now your trying to make light of the issue , shooters that have balancing issues such as matchmaking , that same is where that community comes together and talks about said issue with their propositions to said developers to said game and that community along with said developers come to a middle ground and hash out said issues to where the problems are resolved for the most part , now please act like Dust is the one and only game where you've seen this on display but what I can admit to is Dust 514 is the only game that I've played regardless of shooter or sports related game , where the communities so called " top tier " players fight tooth and nail against the " lesser " players about issues that they know dam well are killing the potential of the game and also where that same development team says ZERO about said issues that THEY KNOW is extremely harmful to THEIR product , like they themselves could care less or that they just want this game to just die a slow death while they sell aurum until the numbers are close to none and the lights get cut off . Every game that I've played has this same problem , matchmaking or lack there of but the difference is that they address it in an consolidated effort , shooters and sports alike and please keep acting like this is a rare instance because YouTube has plenty that speak about such matters in and about different games . I don't know too many that like to waste their time in whatever their doing so this is no different and many games starting out have these discussions , I've even seen people talking about this when talking about SWBF and that game isn't even out yet beyond the beta , this game is three years old and it still has this basic but yet core issue , so while you can place the blame on the community , some of it can also be placed on CCP because their the ones that program what happens and what's going on and these discussions have been had many times before what's been going on lately , the difference is ... it's too late in the game to keep sweeping it under the rug and in the same instance try to promote weapons , role and vehicle mechanical changes while claiming it to be " for the better of the game " , well what about matchmaking .?. that should have been the top priority because for the most part , that's the factor that helps in the decision someone that's new will make , if they will stay and invest or leave and find something more suited to their liking . How would they even understand what their dealing with ( truly like or dislike ) if it's hard for them to even get through the front door ? Teamwork is really important - said the Tyrannosarus Rex from Kung Fury .
Thor Odinson42 Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 7	Posted - 2015.10.13 00:52:00 - [32] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Thumb Green wrote: Press Attache wrote: If people playing hard ruins the game to you, take it up with CCP. I don't agree, but see where it gets you. People running off players ruins the game for me. CCP isn't to blame for these people doing so, it's a choice they have made. Sure there are things CCP can do to mitigate it (such as locking proto/officer out of pubs) but there's only so much they're willing to do and can do. But again you can't blame CCP for these people choosing to do what they do. It's a video game. I doubt CCP could have expected so many would be scared of getting killed in a video game. It's just not logical. This is the logical fallacy known as causal reductionism boys and girls. You sir are the illogical one. Your skills at oversimplifying a very important debate are so OP that your posts have devolved into something irrelevant to the discussion. CCP nerf immediately. And you are more than welcome to keep your opinions to yourself if you like. Then how and why are so many people on both of the teams in the OP's example NOT killing or dying? I've been playing for over 3 years. I've been watching the game devolve into these borefests of VETERANS who choose not to fight in this FPS. Seriously, port it. Hurry
Thor Odinson42 Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 7	Posted - 2015.10.13 00:54:00 - [33] - Quote Grimmiers wrote: Yeah I'm not sure there's a way to fix this problem without a lot of changes to npe. It's not the protogear that's the problem and usually in a pub nowadays the people that go 0/20 leave before that point making a lopsided match. I see these boards in fw a lot though, but at least those people stay for the fight. I feel like a lot of these players are just out of loop of hidden changes on the forums and believe in the misconception that high scores can only be earned with better gear. Dust is also a very different shooter with high hp, or movement making each individual fight feel really different. Like you can be shooting behind cover at a commando and suddenly a jumping mass driver minassault appears. But yeah I feel sorry for the newberries that get killed for 20 minutes at a time. I do too, but I'll guarantee you that if the OP updated his list with names we'd find the majority are veteran players. Seriously, port it. Hurry
Summa Militum Art.of.Death 1	Posted - 2015.10.13 01:03:00 - [34] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Grimmiers wrote: Yeah I'm not sure there's a way to fix this problem without a lot of changes to npe. It's not the protogear that's the problem and usually in a pub nowadays the people that go 0/20 leave before that point making a lopsided match. I see these boards in fw a lot though, but at least those people stay for the fight. I feel like a lot of these players are just out of loop of hidden changes on the forums and believe in the misconception that high scores can only be earned with better gear. Dust is also a very different shooter with high hp, or movement making each individual fight feel really different. Like you can be shooting behind cover at a commando and suddenly a jumping mass driver minassault appears. But yeah I feel sorry for the newberries that get killed for 20 minutes at a time. I do too, but I'll guarantee you that if the OP updated his list with names we'd find the majority are veteran players. So you want me to display more match results but with the names of the people? I have no problem doing that.
Summa Militum Art.of.Death 1	Posted - 2015.10.13 01:04:00 - [35] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Thumb Green wrote: Press Attache wrote: If people playing hard ruins the game to you, take it up with CCP. I don't agree, but see where it gets you. People running off players ruins the game for me. CCP isn't to blame for these people doing so, it's a choice they have made. Sure there are things CCP can do to mitigate it (such as locking proto/officer out of pubs) but there's only so much they're willing to do and can do. But again you can't blame CCP for these people choosing to do what they do. It's a video game. I doubt CCP could have expected so many would be scared of getting killed in a video game. It's just not logical. This is the logical fallacy known as causal reductionism boys and girls. You sir are the illogical one. Your skills at oversimplifying a very important debate are so OP that your posts have devolved into something irrelevant to the discussion. CCP nerf immediately. And you are more than welcome to keep your opinions to yourself if you like. Then how and why are so many people on both of the teams in the OP's example NOT killing or dying? I've been playing for over 3 years. I've been watching the game devolve into these borefests of VETERANS who choose not to fight in this FPS. Some of those people would have joined in at the end of the match like I did.
Shaun Iwairo Simple Minded People Pty. Ltd. 62	Posted - 2015.10.13 01:09:00 - [36] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: And you actually pay attention to what I talk about, you'll know that I'm actually in favor of raising payouts so EVERYONE can run proto. Full proto matches are fun as hell. I verbally harass anyone who tries to delude themselves that proto suits are the cause of their problems. Its a minute factor in a much larger scheme. I'm actually in favor of raising payouts so EVERYONE can run proto. That is so short sighted. What about the new players that can't run proto? You're suggesting to throw them in matches with even more people in proto? If suits are a minute factor in a much larger scheme, why do you suggest a change that will allow everyone with the SP to run them full time? If they're a minute factor, why are matches fun as hell when everyone is wearing them? Because you get close matches? Because putting everyone in the same tier gear tends to even out the playing field? You want to believe that running proto isn't a big deal but you've inadvertently highlighted why it is. Stat modifiers are killing new player retention.
Press Attache The Office of The Attorney General 216	Posted - 2015.10.13 01:18:00 - [37] - Quote Thumb Green wrote: Press Attache wrote: If people playing hard ruins the game to you, take it up with CCP. I don't agree, but see where it gets you. People running off players ruins the game for me. CCP isn't to blame for these people doing so, it's a choice they have made. Sure there are things CCP can do to mitigate it (such as locking proto/officer out of pubs) but there's only so much they're willing to do and can do. But again you can't blame CCP for these people choosing to do what they do. It is absolutely not the players fault for playing hard from start to finish. CCP made a game that in your eyes cannot stand up to high level play. That's isn't true, you just need a scapegoat and proto stompers are it, but don't blame the players. You absolutely can and should blame CCP for people not being able to play their game without self policing and being considerate of the losers feelings to not "destroy" the game. Forum representative for Mr. Hybrid Vayu: The Attorney General.
Mortedeamor The Black Masquerade 1	Posted - 2015.10.13 01:19:00 - [38] - Quote TooMany Names AlreadyTaken wrote: I see just one proto squad and a few proto Lone Wolves. So the problem is that the Lone Wolves were on the same team as the proto squad. lone wolves do get qued with the proto squads if thier mu is average ish it seems high level mercs do not however guaranteed my main woulda be put on the losing side of that match if i qued alone pc master race PORT IT CCP
Press Attache The Office of The Attorney General 216	Posted - 2015.10.13 01:23:00 - [39] - Quote Shaun Iwairo wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: And you actually pay attention to what I talk about, you'll know that I'm actually in favor of raising payouts so EVERYONE can run proto. Full proto matches are fun as hell. I verbally harass anyone who tries to delude themselves that proto suits are the cause of their problems. Its a minute factor in a much larger scheme. I'm actually in favor of raising payouts so EVERYONE can run proto. That is so short sighted. What about the new players that can't run proto? You're suggesting to throw them in matches with even more people in proto? If suits are a minute factor in a much larger scheme, why do you suggest a change that will allow everyone with the SP to run them full time? If they're a minute factor, why are matches fun as hell when everyone is wearing them? Because you get close matches? Because putting everyone in the same tier gear tends to even out the playing field? You want to believe that running proto isn't a big deal but you've inadvertently highlighted why it is. Because 3 weeks of SP and you are proto, the game has been around for longer than that. Do you really think the scores in the OPs match would have been that much different if the squad that actually played was only in advanced gear? Forum representative for Mr. Hybrid Vayu: The Attorney General.
Shaun Iwairo Simple Minded People Pty. Ltd. 62	Posted - 2015.10.13 01:26:00 - [40] - Quote Press Attache wrote: Thumb Green wrote: Press Attache wrote: If people playing hard ruins the game to you, take it up with CCP. I don't agree, but see where it gets you. People running off players ruins the game for me. CCP isn't to blame for these people doing so, it's a choice they have made. Sure there are things CCP can do to mitigate it (such as locking proto/officer out of pubs) but there's only so much they're willing to do and can do. But again you can't blame CCP for these people choosing to do what they do. It is absolutely not the players fault for playing hard from start to finish. CCP made a game that in your eyes cannot stand up to high level play. That's isn't true, you just need a scapegoat and proto stompers are it, but don't blame the players. You absolutely can and should blame CCP for people not being able to play their game without self policing and being considerate of the losers feelings to not "destroy" the game. I'll always agree with the point that it's not the players fault for running the best gear they can and playing as hard as they can against vets and new players alike. The way Dust is set up with it's wildly varying stat modifiers from tiers and SP would be perfectly fine if the matchmaker had the playerbase it needed. But it doesn't, so here we are. Stat modifiers are killing new player retention.

Summa Militum Art.of.Death 1	Posted - 2015.10.13 01:32:00 - [41] - Quote Press Attache wrote: Shaun Iwairo wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: And you actually pay attention to what I talk about, you'll know that I'm actually in favor of raising payouts so EVERYONE can run proto. Full proto matches are fun as hell. I verbally harass anyone who tries to delude themselves that proto suits are the cause of their problems. Its a minute factor in a much larger scheme. I'm actually in favor of raising payouts so EVERYONE can run proto. That is so short sighted. What about the new players that can't run proto? You're suggesting to throw them in matches with even more people in proto? If suits are a minute factor in a much larger scheme, why do you suggest a change that will allow everyone with the SP to run them full time? If they're a minute factor, why are matches fun as hell when everyone is wearing them? Because you get close matches? Because putting everyone in the same tier gear tends to even out the playing field? You want to believe that running proto isn't a big deal but you've inadvertently highlighted why it is. Because 3 weeks of SP and you are proto, the game has been around for longer than that. Do you really think the scores in the OPs match would have been that much different if the squad that actually played was only in advanced gear? Just so you remember, I am actively pushing to have Proto/Officer Gear and squads removed from Public Contracts.
Shaun Iwairo Simple Minded People Pty. Ltd. 62	Posted - 2015.10.13 01:37:00 - [42] - Quote Press Attache wrote: Shaun Iwairo wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: And you actually pay attention to what I talk about, you'll know that I'm actually in favor of raising payouts so EVERYONE can run proto. Full proto matches are fun as hell. I verbally harass anyone who tries to delude themselves that proto suits are the cause of their problems. Its a minute factor in a much larger scheme. I'm actually in favor of raising payouts so EVERYONE can run proto. That is so short sighted. What about the new players that can't run proto? You're suggesting to throw them in matches with even more people in proto? If suits are a minute factor in a much larger scheme, why do you suggest a change that will allow everyone with the SP to run them full time? If they're a minute factor, why are matches fun as hell when everyone is wearing them? Because you get close matches? Because putting everyone in the same tier gear tends to even out the playing field? You want to believe that running proto isn't a big deal but you've inadvertently highlighted why it is. Because 3 weeks of SP and you are proto, the game has been around for longer than that. Do you really think the scores in the OPs match would have been that much different if the squad that actually played was only in advanced gear? I'm willing to concede I'm wrong here, but I don't think it takes 3 weeks to get into a proto suit, with complex armor mods and/or complex shield mods, complex damage mods and a proto gun. Then you've got to get the core skills to be able to fit that stuff, and whatever other complex stuff you need like kincats/precisions/range amps etc. All this while earning less WP/match and thus considerably less SP/match as a new player. Do you really think the scores in the OPs match would have been that much different if the squad that actually played was only in advanced gear? Of course I can't say yes or no for sure, but what I can say is that pro provides a measurable, additional amout of EHP and DPS than you get with adv. It's likely that a number of engagements would have ended differently. Stat modifiers are killing new player retention.
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution 13	Posted - 2015.10.13 01:37:00 - [43] - Quote Shaun Iwairo wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: And you actually pay attention to what I talk about, you'll know that I'm actually in favor of raising payouts so EVERYONE can run proto. Full proto matches are fun as hell. I verbally harass anyone who tries to delude themselves that proto suits are the cause of their problems. Its a minute factor in a much larger scheme. I'm actually in favor of raising payouts so EVERYONE can run proto. That is so short sighted. What about the new players that can't run proto? You're suggesting to throw them in matches with even more people in proto? If suits are a minute factor in a much larger scheme, why do you suggest a change that will allow everyone with the SP to run them full time? If they're a minute factor, why are matches fun as hell when everyone is wearing them? Because you get close matches? Because putting everyone in the same tier gear tends to even out the playing field? You want to believe that running proto isn't a big deal but you've inadvertently highlighted why it is. Do it. Give me tiericide so that the SP barrier is lower for entry. I expect to see all of you wearing them loud and proud. Full proto suit matches are fun because you have something to fight for. People get freaking TENACIOUS when they wear it (Except for a few I meet who run at the slightest chance of trouble). I told you the reason why I played PC. People had something to fight for larger than themselves. THAT is what made the matches fun. There is something amazing at watching people burn through suits that only give you a slight advantage, all because they want that advantage to beat you into the ground, no matter the cost. Most of that magic is gone now, hence why I moved on to other games. Unreal Tourament is hella fun right now. But I always check back here because I love this game and want to see it move on. I wanna see this on PC SO BAD. Re-Retired PC Scout. I miss the old days ;_; Wanna play EVE? 30 day trial here
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 2	Posted - 2015.10.13 01:38:00 - [44] - Quote Summa Militum wrote: I just joined a losing Acquisition Battle in which I was in the match for maybe just a couple of minutes before it ended. These are the scores at the EOM screen: My Team 1. 0/3 2. 4/1 3. 5/2 (Me) 4. 2/11 5. 0/15 6. 2/6 7. 2/10 8. 0/2 9. 1/1 10. 1/4 11. 1/13 12. 0/7 13. 0/6 14. 0/0 15. 0/1 16. 0/3 Enemy Team 1. 21/5 (The Darkhunter Society) 2. 26/1 (T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K.) 3. 9/1 (T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K.) 4. 12/3 5. 12/1 (research lab) 6. 7/1 7. 7/0 8. 6/0 (Eternal Beings) 9. 2/3 10. 4/5 11. 0/0 12. 3/3 13. 0/3 14. 0/1 15. 0/3 16. 0/0 Take a guess as to which team was running Proto Gear. The data is too narrow for any conclusive answer. One match is not enough. Also, bear in mind that winners using proto/officer is both cause and symptom. Because they are stronger, and because players tend to bring in good gear when they feel very strong. "Today I have been feeling mostly smug." KERO-TRADER is my official Eve character for Dust trading.
Thor Odinson42 Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 7	Posted - 2015.10.13 01:41:00 - [45] - Quote Summa Militum wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Grimmiers wrote: Yeah I'm not sure there's a way to fix this problem without a lot of changes to npe. It's not the protogear that's the problem and usually in a pub nowadays the people that go 0/20 leave before that point making a lopsided match. I see these boards in fw a lot though, but at least those people stay for the fight. I feel like a lot of these players are just out of loop of hidden changes on the forums and believe in the misconception that high scores can only be earned with better gear. Dust is also a very different shooter with high hp, or movement making each individual fight feel really different. Like you can be shooting behind cover at a commando and suddenly a jumping mass driver minassault appears. But yeah I feel sorry for the newberries that get killed for 20 minutes at a time. I do too, but I'll guarantee you that if the OP updated his list with names we'd find the majority are veteran players. So you want me to display more match results but with the names of the people? I have no problem doing that. Yes, but only if you'll shut up after we find out that most of those pathetic scores are players that have been around a long time. Seriously, port it. Hurry
Thor Odinson42 Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 7	Posted - 2015.10.13 01:46:00 - [46] - Quote Shaun Iwairo wrote: Press Attache wrote: Shaun Iwairo wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: And you actually pay attention to what I talk about, you'll know that I'm actually in favor of raising payouts so EVERYONE can run proto. Full proto matches are fun as hell. I verbally harass anyone who tries to delude themselves that proto suits are the cause of their problems. Its a minute factor in a much larger scheme. I'm actually in favor of raising payouts so EVERYONE can run proto. That is so short sighted. What about the new players that can't run proto? You're suggesting to throw them in matches with even more people in proto? If suits are a minute factor in a much larger scheme, why do you suggest a change that will allow everyone with the SP to run them full time? If they're a minute factor, why are matches fun as hell when everyone is wearing them? Because you get close matches? Because putting everyone in the same tier gear tends to even out the playing field? You want to believe that running proto isn't a big deal but you've inadvertently highlighted why it is. Because 3 weeks of SP and you are proto, the game has been around for longer than that. Do you really think the scores in the OPs match would have been that much different if the squad that actually played was only in advanced gear? I'm willing to concede I'm wrong here, but I don't think it takes 3 weeks to get into a proto suit, with complex armor mods and/or complex shield mods, complex damage mods and a proto gun. Then you've got to get the core skills to be able to fit that stuff, and whatever other complex stuff you need like kincats/precisions/range amps etc. All this while earning less WP/match and thus considerably less SP/match as a new player. Do you really think the scores in the OPs match would have been that much different if the squad that actually played was only in advanced gear? Of course I can't say yes or no for sure, but what I can say is that pro provides a measurable, additional amout of EHP and DPS than you get with adv. It's likely that a number of engagements would have ended differently. So if they are in ADV all those people posting 0-2, 0-0, 1-3, etc would see that in the kill feed and their heads would all of a sudden pop out of their ass and they'd start participating? Seriously, port it. Hurry
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution 13	Posted - 2015.10.13 01:50:00 - [47] - Quote Shaun Iwairo wrote: Press Attache wrote: Shaun Iwairo wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: And you actually pay attention to what I talk about, you'll know that I'm actually in favor of raising payouts so EVERYONE can run proto. Full proto matches are fun as hell. I verbally harass anyone who tries to delude themselves that proto suits are the cause of their problems. Its a minute factor in a much larger scheme. I'm actually in favor of raising payouts so EVERYONE can run proto. That is so short sighted. What about the new players that can't run proto? You're suggesting to throw them in matches with even more people in proto? If suits are a minute factor in a much larger scheme, why do you suggest a change that will allow everyone with the SP to run them full time? If they're a minute factor, why are matches fun as hell when everyone is wearing them? Because you get close matches? Because putting everyone in the same tier gear tends to even out the playing field? You want to believe that running proto isn't a big deal but you've inadvertently highlighted why it is. Because 3 weeks of SP and you are proto, the game has been around for longer than that. Do you really think the scores in the OPs match would have been that much different if the squad that actually played was only in advanced gear? I'm willing to concede I'm wrong here, but I don't think it takes 3 weeks to get into a proto suit, with complex armor mods and/or complex shield mods, complex damage mods and a proto gun. Then you've got to get the core skills to be able to fit that stuff, and whatever other complex stuff you need like kincats/precisions/range amps etc. All this while earning less WP/match and thus considerably less SP/match as a new player. Do you really think the scores in the OPs match would have been that much different if the squad that actually played was only in advanced gear? Of course I can't say yes or no for sure, but what I can say is that pro provides a measurable, additional amout of EHP and DPS than you get with adv. It's likely that a number of engagements would have ended differently. Truth be told, we need to give new players more SP to start with. They need about 5 mil to start, with some increased SP gain until a certain threshold. I can make a good budget Cal Assault fit for around 13mil SP, costs you 43k ISK, and packs just shy of 800 HP with decent regen. Protofits didn't update for the extra low slot, but you have enough room for an adv ferro on there. This suit is literally only JUST behind proto fit with a far lesser SP investment and is about 1/3 the cost. Proto only gives a small benefit for a giant premium. If you can't do well with this suit, no way in hell will you do well in a proto suit. Personally, I would love to give new guys 5mil SP to play with and a respec at 15 mil SP for free. Accelerated SP should let them get to that point in a month, two tops. After that, normal SP gain. The cores are really the issue here. You need to have them at around 3 or 4 to make most fits work. Thankfully, you can get 80% of the benefit from a skill in about 50% of the time, and all SP past 25 mil is irrelevant. At 25 mil you should have all your cores maxed and a suit fully proto'd out. Everything past just adds to your versatility. Re-Retired PC Scout. I miss the old days ;_; Wanna play EVE? 30 day trial here
Shaun Iwairo Simple Minded People Pty. Ltd. 62	Posted - 2015.10.13 01:53:00 - [48] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: Shaun Iwairo wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: And you actually pay attention to what I talk about, you'll know that I'm actually in favor of raising payouts so EVERYONE can run proto. Full proto matches are fun as hell. I verbally harass anyone who tries to delude themselves that proto suits are the cause of their problems. Its a minute factor in a much larger scheme. I'm actually in favor of raising payouts so EVERYONE can run proto. That is so short sighted. What about the new players that can't run proto? You're suggesting to throw them in matches with even more people in proto? If suits are a minute factor in a much larger scheme, why do you suggest a change that will allow everyone with the SP to run them full time? If they're a minute factor, why are matches fun as hell when everyone is wearing them? Because you get close matches? Because putting everyone in the same tier gear tends to even out the playing field? You want to believe that running proto isn't a big deal but you've inadvertently highlighted why it is. Do it. Give me tiericide so that the SP barrier is lower for entry. I expect to see all of you wearing them loud and proud. Full proto suit matches are fun because you have something to fight for. People get freaking TENACIOUS when they wear it (Except for a few I meet who run at the slightest chance of trouble). I told you the reason why I played PC. People had something to fight for larger than themselves. THAT is what made the matches fun. There is something amazing at watching people burn through suits that only give you a slight advantage, all because they want that advantage to beat you into the ground, no matter the cost. Most of that magic is gone now, hence why I moved on to other games. Unreal Tourament is hella fun right now. But I always check back here because I love this game and want to see it move on. I wanna see this on PC SO BAD. I agree with you when you say when people have something to fight for, matches are fun as hell. However, is it full proto matches that are fun as hell or PC matches that are fun as hell? I can see how people have something larger to fight for in PC matches. But in full proto matches people only have the expense of their suit to fight for, and you're also suggesting to make them less expensive (via higher payouts). Wouldn't that make proto suits less of a thing to fight for, and in turn reduce the tenaciousness of those wearing them? EDIT: Just saw your other post I can make a good budget Cal Assault fit for around 13mil SP, costs you 43k ISK, and packs just shy of 800 HP with decent regen. It's a great ADV fit, that's for sure. But at 43k isk I imagine a new player could only lose two of these before going ISK negative. Factor in the new player having to buy skillbooks on top of replacing lost suits and I don't think it's feasible. Also, your 800HP with decent regen figure is at all Vs. While 3m SP doesn't sound like much to you, it's a month straight of capping out and perfectly allocating your SP. Being realistic and saying the new player probably won't do either it's going to be a lot longer than a month. Stat modifiers are killing new player retention.
Thor Odinson42 Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 7	Posted - 2015.10.13 01:58:00 - [49] - Quote OP, if you post the names from that match AND post their born on date from Dustboard I'll send you 25 million ISK. Also please post an actual screenshot of the match so we can verify. Seriously, port it. Hurry
Baal Omniscient Qualified Scrub 2	Posted - 2015.10.13 02:06:00 - [50] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: It's a video game. I doubt CCP could have expected so many would be scared of getting killed in a video game. It's just not logical. This is the logical fallacy known as causal reductionism boys and girls. You sir are the illogical one. Your skills at oversimplifying a very important debate are so OP that your posts have devolved into something irrelevant to the discussion. CCP nerf immediately. And you are more than welcome to keep your opinions to yourself if you like. Then how and why are so many people on both of the teams in the OP's example NOT killing or dying? I've been playing for over 3 years. I've been watching the game devolve into these borefests of VETERANS who choose not to fight in this FPS. Guess what? You aren't the only person who has been here since 2012, I started playing in July of 2012 and regardless of that I still don't see how reducing an argument to base terms and ignoring all nuances involved helps anything. Plenty of veterans choose not to play certain matches for untold numbers of reasons that have been expressed time and time again over the years. Most simply left rather than put up with it, but for those who remain that leave matches they by and large want matches where they aren't placed into lopsided matches and pushed up against players that are going to spam officer gear or run broken fittings. Or, given there's a difference of opinion, fits they deem broken and not fun to fight against. Also things that are breaking the standard gameplay they grew to love in Dust makes them unwilling to deal with some matches; things like the RE grenades, rooftop camping and the new fad of suits that CQC with mass drivers and PLCs by jumping above the blast radius as they fire, are making certain matches just not worth the effort and frustration to play them. This all leads to them trying out what they are dealing with in a match and either quitting to get to the next game, saying ** it and afking to get their end of match rewards or doing stupid crap all match for fun just to have something to do. As for your assumptions about new player numbers, they are just that. Assumptions. If you have some hard numbers backing your remarks then you can actually make a proper point, but so far all you've done is make statements based on how you think things are according to your narrow experience with the game and not based on any solid data. There are much more productive means of spending your time than wasting everyone else's with remarks like: Thor Odinson42 wrote:** Are there people dumb enough to think that 75% of the players in matches are new? If you want all the reasons why people do this, go read all of the 'people leaving matches' threads. Or you could keep doing what you're doing now and try to convince people of your views without any backing data. The only reason I'm sill up right now (5am) is because my back hurts too bad to sleep and don't have the focus to write more about this right now. I'm done with this. Winmatar Assault, Proficiency 5 SMG's & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0 I GÖú Puppies (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.*pâ+n+ín+ƒ.

Thor Odinson42 Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 7	Posted - 2015.10.13 02:27:00 - [51] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: It's a video game. I doubt CCP could have expected so many would be scared of getting killed in a video game. It's just not logical. This is the logical fallacy known as causal reductionism boys and girls. You sir are the illogical one. Your skills at oversimplifying a very important debate are so OP that your posts have devolved into something irrelevant to the discussion. CCP nerf immediately. And you are more than welcome to keep your opinions to yourself if you like. Then how and why are so many people on both of the teams in the OP's example NOT killing or dying? I've been playing for over 3 years. I've been watching the game devolve into these borefests of VETERANS who choose not to fight in this FPS. Guess what? You aren't the only person who has been here since 2012, I started playing in July of 2012 and regardless of that I still don't see how reducing an argument to base terms and ignoring all nuances involved helps anything. Plenty of veterans choose not to play certain matches for untold numbers of reasons that have been expressed time and time again over the years. Most simply left rather than put up with it, but for those who remain that leave matches they by and large want matches where they aren't placed into lopsided matches and pushed up against players that are going to spam officer gear or run broken fittings. Or, given there's a difference of opinion, fits they deem broken and not fun to fight against. Also things that are breaking the standard gameplay they grew to love in Dust makes them unwilling to deal with some matches; things like the RE grenades, rooftop camping and the new fad of suits that CQC with mass drivers and PLCs by jumping above the blast radius as they fire, are making certain matches just not worth the effort and frustration to play them. This all leads to them trying out what they are dealing with in a match and either quitting to get to the next game, saying ** it and afking to get their end of match rewards or doing stupid crap all match for fun just to have something to do. As for your assumptions about new player numbers, they are just that. Assumptions. If you have some hard numbers backing your remarks then you can actually make a proper point, but so far all you've done is make statements based on how you think things are according to your narrow experience with the game and not based on any solid data. There are much more productive means of spending your time than wasting everyone else's with remarks like: Thor Odinson42 wrote:** Are there people dumb enough to think that 75% of the players in matches are new? If you want all the reasons why people do this, go read all of the 'people leaving matches' threads. Or you could keep doing what you're doing now and try to convince people of your views without any backing data. The only reason I'm sill up right now (5am) is because my back hurts too bad to sleep and don't have the focus to write more about this right now. I'm done with this. I'm asking for data. I just offered the OP ISK so we can dig into his example. I shouldn't have to convince anybody that droves of players are doing nothing in matches. It happens in every single match. The only point of contention appears to be whether these players are new or not. My only point, is that gear isn't the problem. Participation is the problem. Stomping squads are magnified right now because there are so few making impacts in matches in my opinion. Seriously, port it. Hurry
Thor Odinson42 Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 7	Posted - 2015.10.13 02:32:00 - [52] - Quote So, OP are you going to take up my offer or not? Just post the screenshot and I'll give you 10 mil and I'll do Dustboard myself. Seriously, port it. Hurry
Press Attache The Office of The Attorney General 216	Posted - 2015.10.13 02:34:00 - [53] - Quote Shaun Iwairo wrote: Press Attache wrote: Shaun Iwairo wrote: [quote=Ghost Kaisar] And you actually pay attention to what I talk about, you'll know that I'm actually in favor of raising payouts so EVERYONE can run proto. Full proto matches are fun as hell. I verbally harass anyone who tries to delude themselves that proto suits are the cause of their problems. Its a minute factor in a much larger scheme. I'm actually in favor of raising payouts so EVERYONE can run proto. That is so short sighted. What about the new players that can't run proto? You're suggesting to throw them in matches with even more people in proto? If suits are a minute factor in a much larger scheme, why do you suggest a change that will allow everyone with the SP to run them full time? If they're a minute factor, why are matches fun as hell when everyone is wearing them? Because you get close matches? Because putting everyone in the same tier gear tends to even out the playing field? You want to believe that running proto isn't a big deal but you've inadvertently highlighted why it is. Because 3 weeks of SP and you are proto, the game has been around for longer than that. Do you really think the scores in the OPs match would have been that much different if the squad that actually played was only in advanced gear? I'm willing to concede I'm wrong here, but I don't think it takes 3 weeks to get into a proto suit, with complex armor mods and/or complex shield mods, complex damage mods and a proto gun. Then you've got to get the core skills to be able to fit that stuff, and whatever other complex stuff you need like kincats/precisions/range amps etc. All this while earning less WP/match and thus considerably less SP/match as a new player. Do you really think the scores in the OPs match would have been that much different if the squad that actually played was only in advanced gear? Of course I can't say yes or no for sure, but what I can say is that pro provides a measurable, additional amout of EHP and DPS than you get with adv. It's likely that a number of engagements would have ended differently.] 3 weeks of unboosted SP(no passive SP counted). But in truth, you need a lot less than that to be competitive. Adv suit and gun with proto modules would put you over the gear hump in90% of gunfights. It wouldn't matter a lick of difference engaging a squad, but you wouldn't be helpless Starter fits vs advanced ends the same a s starter fits versus proto. You do not need 8 or 9 million to not be cannon fodder. Even at 5 you should be fine, at least from a gear perspective. Forum representative for Mr. Hybrid Vayu: The Attorney General.
Shaun Iwairo Simple Minded People Pty. Ltd. 62	Posted - 2015.10.13 03:00:00 - [54] - Quote OK, as I said... willing to concede I'm wrong. Isn't the SP cap at 750K/week? That'll get you into a suit, but we're talking about the gear, not just the suit. Stat modifiers are killing new player retention.
Press Attache The Office of The Attorney General 216	Posted - 2015.10.13 03:31:00 - [55] - Quote Shaun Iwairo wrote: OK, as I said... willing to concede I'm wrong. Isn't the SP cap at 750K/week? That'll get you into a suit, but we're talking about the gear, not just the suit. I know, and the grind is a mother. More starting skills, enough to use every standard module, drop suit cores at 3, and light weapons operation 4 with a starting unallocated of 750 would be rough starting point. Forum representative for Mr. Hybrid Vayu: The Attorney General.
Shaun Iwairo Simple Minded People Pty. Ltd. 62	Posted - 2015.10.13 03:44:00 - [56] - Quote Heh I guess I misunderstood you. I thought you meant that after 3 weeks a new player could be in a proto loadout. Stat modifiers are killing new player retention.
Ydubbs81 RND Ancient Exiles. Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 4	Posted - 2015.10.13 04:01:00 - [57] - Quote Summa Militum wrote: Take a guess as to which team was running Proto Gear. I can take a guess as to which team was squadded vs the team filled with randoms. Squads are the problem...not proto gear. I'll admit that proto gear vs mlt gear will be a problem for all of those starter fit users. But one man by himself won't decide who wins or loses. But proto gear coupled with squads?...randoms are just food. "Bring out mass drivers & jump around goddamit" Check RND out here
ROMULUS H3X research lab 801	Posted - 2015.10.13 04:39:00 - [58] - Quote Joel II X wrote: Research lab is still around? Where would we go? Yes, of course we are here. There is always more research to be done, right? Mostly with The Darkhunter Society ( as you can see from the POSTED Teams) FORGE/FLAYLOCK/FISTS PLASMA/PISTOL/PUNCH ALL OF YOU PUNKS GET HUMILIATED AFTER LUNCH!
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution 13	Posted - 2015.10.13 04:45:00 - [59] - Quote Press Attache wrote: Shaun Iwairo wrote: OK, as I said... willing to concede I'm wrong. Isn't the SP cap at 750K/week? That'll get you into a suit, but we're talking about the gear, not just the suit. I know, and the grind is a mother. More starting skills, enough to use every standard module, drop suit cores at 3, and light weapons operation 4 with a starting unallocated of 750 would be rough starting point. I like that better than my 5 mil flat idea. Fool proof so people always have some decent core skills Re-Retired PC Scout. I miss the old days ;_; Wanna play EVE? 30 day trial here
Ateroith KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 235	Posted - 2015.10.13 05:00:00 - [60] - Quote Summa Militum wrote: I just joined a losing Acquisition Battle in which I was in the match for maybe just a couple of minutes before it ended. These are the scores at the EOM screen: My Team 1. 0/3 2. 4/1 3. 5/2 (Me) 4. 2/11 5. 0/15 6. 2/6 7. 2/10 8. 0/2 9. 1/1 10. 1/4 11. 1/13 12. 0/7 13. 0/6 14. 0/0 15. 0/1 16. 0/3 Enemy Team 1. 21/5 (The Darkhunter Society) 2. 26/1 (T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K.) 3. 9/1 (T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K.) 4. 12/3 5. 12/1 (research lab) 6. 7/1 7. 7/0 8. 6/0 (Eternal Beings) 9. 2/3 10. 4/5 11. 0/0 12. 3/3 13. 0/3 14. 0/1 15. 0/3 16. 0/0 Take a guess as to which team was running Proto Gear. It looks like CCP doesn't want to do anything about Proto in pubs, because they haven't said anything or mentioned a move. So it is our responsibility to hand their ***** to them. Squad with me and I'll keep you alive for revenge. "...Rule #2 - Never start a fight. Rule #3 - Never lose one either." - Lee Child



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