DUST Search - CPM Feedback request: Laser Rifle

Aeon Amadi wrote:

I-Shayz-I wrote:

Pulling this from my underperforming weapons thread in GD....

Laser Rifle
Quick explanation: Depending on who you talk to, the laser is either godly or complete trash. Capacity is the underlying problem.

So why is it trash? Well unlike every other weapon, the laser requires two things to be powerful. A, time, and B, distance. For some weird reason, you actually deal less damage the closer you are to your target, which a lot of players using the weapon don't understand (as it is the only weapon in the game to do this and isn't explained). You also need to keep firing the weapon for it to even deal lethal damage...and that's the real problem.

See, if you only have 25 laser capacity remaining in the clip, there is simply no reason to waste it to 0 since you can't build up heat again. having capacity below 50 means you are wasting damage potential and you must reload. Even with Amarr Assault 5 and a Victor's this same rule applies as the only way you are getting officer level damage is by holding it from 100 to 0.

The solution? Double capacity size but keep the overheat mechanic the same. The balance then relies on heat management, just like the HMG. Do you go all out to the point of overheat or do you fire in bursts to apply better DPS over time?

Possible buff: Double capacity to 200, keep overheat mechanics the same, slight increase to reserve ammo

A more complicated solution would be to base the weapon damage on how much heat has been built up rather than just based on how long the trigger has been held. Instead of resetting the damage modifier back to 0 when you let go of the trigger, a skilled player could hold the heat level high to maintain damage output.

But seeing as the scrambler rifle heat mechanics make it do more damage than it should because pressing the trigger it technically holding the charge for a split second...I'm guessing that not only would this sort of mechanic be tricky to implement, but could also break the weapon entirely.

Would a pre-charge be an acceptable change? As in, holding down the trigger to ramp up the heat and -then- firing the beam, or is it necessary to allow firing instantaneously?

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Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.09.20 20:33:00 - [121] - Quote Forever ETC wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Ok so. Regardless of the wanting it to only be good on the amarr assault... We're looking to increase its utility on any amarr suit. There is no value in a weapon that is only particularly useful at max skill on a single max-skill suit out of 20 different dropsuits, 5 of which are racially themed to it. Amarr Assault Skill: 2% to Overheat and 3% to Cooldown Time per level LR/ScR Operation Skill: 3% to Overheat and 2% to Cooldown Time Increased usability of Laser Weaponry on all suits, no need to balance with Amarr Assault Skill, and Amarr Assault still keeps it's place as King. King doesn't bother me. Only functional one? that is entirely my issue. this is going on my list of potential tweaks. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 1	Posted - 2015.09.20 20:51:00 - [122] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Forever ETC wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Ok so. Regardless of the wanting it to only be good on the amarr assault... We're looking to increase its utility on any amarr suit. There is no value in a weapon that is only particularly useful at max skill on a single max-skill suit out of 20 different dropsuits, 5 of which are racially themed to it. Amarr Assault Skill: 2% to Overheat and 3% to Cooldown Time per level LR/ScR Operation Skill: 3% to Overheat and 2% to Cooldown Time Increased usability of Laser Weaponry on all suits, no need to balance with Amarr Assault Skill, and Amarr Assault still keeps it's place as King. King doesn't bother me. Only functional one? that is entirely my issue. this is going on my list of potential tweaks. better rework the whole rifle from scratch. The main point of contention about how the scr is used has always been high damage, high risk, high sp investment to mitigate that risk. take away the high risk and you have the laser version of the rail rifle. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me. "I sometimes wonder why I share stuff "- CCP Rattati
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.09.20 20:54:00 - [123] - Quote and yet the scrambler is used less than the rail rifle and combat rifle. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 1	Posted - 2015.09.20 21:07:00 - [124] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: and yet the scrambler is used less than the rail rifle and combat rifle. and that's a good thing. The other rifles are as vanilla as it gets. Rails just have the massive range advantage. There is no reason to spec into the caldari assault when it's racial weapons work just as well if not better on other suits. There is something wrong when the gallente assault is the best rail rifle suit. High sp + learning curve as you learn to mitigate the issues of the scrambler as you level up rewards you with a frankly very powerful weapon. take that power and spread it to everyone, there is no longer any reason to kep it's high damage. let alone making the amarr assault bonus as useless as the assault dropship bonuses the advantage becomes tiny. its not king, more like the jack of the laser weapons. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me. "I sometimes wonder why I share stuff "- CCP Rattati
Ishukone Joe Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 0	Posted - 2015.09.21 00:40:00 - [125] - Quote Mid-long range damage dealer and anti/sniper. Need to get the rifle 'hot' to see its damage potential really kick in. Continuous fire increases damage. << Primary Benefit Surprise Build up of Damage = Lots of Kills when opponents go toe to toe. The amount of damage this rifle can do when connecting on sustained streams can really surprise players. It can reach out to most midline and backline shooter locations from ground level. Drawbacks Single shot and short burst scenarios typically yield weaker results than you would expect. Single shot is stupid, basically tells everyone 'hey over here! I drew you a line to my exact location'. Get the picture? If you overcook it, it will leave you completely weaponless for about 4-6s. Obviously can be inconvenient to lethal. If you have to re-load as a result, it will attempt to do that immediately, which could leave you in an extended bad situation. If you do not have enough armor or shield to protect you, overcooking the weapon can literally kill you due to damage from overheating the rifle. Fitting #1 Amarr Assault. This is essential because the primary bonus of the suit cools the rifle allowing you to use it in sustained continuous streams = wicked damage. Commmando A. isn't nearly as effective due to overheating. Same for other suits. This is not a one-shot, short burst or close-combat scenario rifle. Strategy Sometimes requires 'hanging in there' while swapping damage with an opponent. You will cook through just about everything in toe to toe matchups as long as you can maintain the hit on your target and don't break the sustained steam. Pro/Con vs. X Suit Type Very effective against Sentinels and Heavies in general, which don't really have a lot of lateral or vertical movement speed malking them a big target that's easy to track.This makes them very susceptible to sustained hits in open-field scenarios. Effective vs. just about everything, at range. That's a hint. Poor against jumpers in general. Then again, so is everyone vs. jumpers. Speedy suits can be problematic with tracking and triggering at the same time. Defensive Fitting Defensive fitting for your suit needs to buy you enough time to get the damage multiplier of the weapon to kick in. Think of the laser rifle as a turbocharger that has a lag before it hits boost. then BAM. Those players with excellent core supporting skills are really able to get the most out of this rifle because it allows you to take damage while performing sustained volleys 'cooking' the rifle to deadly levels. Amarr suits who are armor tankers seem to be very susceptible to combat rifles. i.e. melt like butter' ao pay attention to your opponents kit and setup will help your bank account. Advanced Skills Potential 'Snap' sighting skills can be honed to deadly levels for certain shooters. (practice / play with this weapon a LOT to develop) Summary Across the board, I think it is an exceptionally balanced weapon. Without significant investments in Amarr Assault suit, it has limited upward potential due to overheating limits. It takes quite a bit of skill to use it effectively.
WeapondigitX V7 The Exemplars 433	Posted - 2015.09.21 02:10:00 - [126] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: I-Shayz-I wrote: Pulling this from my underperforming weapons thread in GD.... Laser Rifle Quick explanation: Depending on who you talk to, the laser is either godly or complete trash. Capacity is the underlying problem. So why is it trash? Well unlike every other weapon, the laser requires two things to be powerful. A, time, and B, distance. For some weird reason, you actually deal less damage the closer you are to your target, which a lot of players using the weapon don't understand (as it is the only weapon in the game to do this and isn't explained). You also need to keep firing the weapon for it to even deal lethal damage...and that's the real problem. See, if you only have 25 laser capacity remaining in the clip, there is simply no reason to waste it to 0 since you can't build up heat again. having capacity below 50 means you are wasting damage potential and you must reload. Even with Amarr Assault 5 and a Victor's this same rule applies as the only way you are getting officer level damage is by holding it from 100 to 0. The solution? Double capacity size but keep the overheat mechanic the same. The balance then relies on heat management, just like the HMG. Do you go all out to the point of overheat or do you fire in bursts to apply better DPS over time? Possible buff: Double capacity to 200, keep overheat mechanics the same, slight increase to reserve ammo A more complicated solution would be to base the weapon damage on how much heat has been built up rather than just based on how long the trigger has been held. Instead of resetting the damage modifier back to 0 when you let go of the trigger, a skilled player could hold the heat level high to maintain damage output. But seeing as the scrambler rifle heat mechanics make it do more damage than it should because pressing the trigger it technically holding the charge for a split second...I'm guessing that not only would this sort of mechanic be tricky to implement, but could also break the weapon entirely. Would a pre-charge be an acceptable change? As in, holding down the trigger to ramp up the heat and -then- firing the beam, or is it necessary to allow firing instantaneously? pre-charging for 1.5 seconds and then firing like a rail rifle would be great. However I still also support a clipsize increase to a total of 160 - 200 points of ammunition for all laser rifles. It would make the reload speed of the laser rifle be worth something. Additionally please increase the aim down sights zoom of all laser rifles. This will likely help me track and hit enemies that are trying to strafe through my laser beam at 110m ranges.
Loyal Glasses G.L.O.R.Y 92	Posted - 2015.09.21 16:52:00 - [127] - Quote Yes, double the clip/ ammo reserves keep the heat build up but lower the damage increase by half. Glasses of the Loyal Variety > "The dead are notoriously unproductive "
Cline MKP Moose Knuckle Pros 28	Posted - 2015.09.22 03:10:00 - [128] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: What if we got rid of the magazine for the Laser rifle and just gave it a charge amount (basically a large magazine) The only thing that would hold you back is heat management as distance. Lore wise this can makes sense as well due to lasers using crystals and energy more than actual "ammo" The Laser is the Closest thing we have to a light machine gun in this game, something like this would truly make it shine. THIS!!! I am a Commando. I use the ASCR and the LR. I use the ASCR for close engagements and the LR at med to long range. The only beef I have is the overheating speed and the time it takes to burn someone. It's a LASER! LOL!!! Anyway, the LR is in a pretty good place. However, I like your idea Kirk. We should do this!
John Demonsbane Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 5	Posted - 2015.09.22 19:14:00 - [129] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Avallo Kantor wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: It's how long the beam is continuously discharged not actually the heat if I recall. So I think it resets if you stop firing even at 75% heat. Hrmm, do you think that could be changed? Not any more than the heat mechanic itself can be changed. More specifically, I don't know. Have to ask rattati about it. God, no. Please don't change the mechanics of the laz0r, it's the one unique and compelling weapon Dust created! Here's a quick and dirty breakdown of the damage output. 1) I'd suggest an increase to both clip size and total ammo capacity, since you need to basically waste around 40% of the shots you fire, ammo management has always been an issue. That would be the best change, imo. 2) An AV variant would be great, I don;t even want to try and count the number of times we've asked for that... seriously, just use the FG model and have a big beam come out of it. 3) Another thought would be giving a lesser version of the Amarr assault bonus to the other Amarr suits might help increase usage without having to re-do the assault suit and then dealing with various downstream effects that might come from that. (The godfather of tactical logisticsGäó)
John Demonsbane Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 5	Posted - 2015.09.22 19:22:00 - [130] - Quote Oh, an it would be nice if the overheat wasn't quite so punishing, the feedback damage is OK but not being able to move for such a long period of time - after firing a beam that just screams "Hey! I'm over here, kill me!" - is a bit much. (The godfather of tactical logisticsGäó)

Loyal Glasses G.L.O.R.Y 97	Posted - 2015.09.22 22:08:00 - [131] - Quote So is the amount of damage it deals out. Glasses of the Loyal Variety > "The dead are notoriously unproductive "
Victor Moody Stahl Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 224	Posted - 2015.09.23 05:31:00 - [132] - Quote Just chiming in with my thoughts: The Laser Rifle needs, IMO, two things: 1. Extend the optimal to 150 meters end, with the current optimal-start. This makes the LR the best longer-ish range weapon for mobile engagement, and helps further cement it's suppression-oriented role. 2. Bring back the Chromosome-era camera sight. Seriously, not only was that thing incredibly usable, it brings the ladies around like almost nobody's business. Only Amarrian swag has more lady-attracting power than old-school Chrome-era camera sights. [OPTIONAL] 3. Throw the Scrambler Rifle's stock onto the Laser Rifle's weapon model. It'd look super beast. Buff Logis \| Nerf Scouts
Ama Zarek BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 12	Posted - 2015.09.24 20:46:00 - [133] - Quote Different types should be available. Pulse Laser is missing. I mean: Pew pew Lasers. Thats the only reason you need. (Sound effects for f*** sake! :D)


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