DUST Search - Of Course People Are Going to Leave Battle

All Channels

General Discussions

Of Course People Are Going to Leave Battle

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 11	Posted - 2015.08.04 15:20:00 - [1] - Quote Let's take a look at this objectively real quick. When I get into a match I look at a few things: 1) Did I get in at the start of the match or am I being thrown in as filler for someone else that already left? (players usually don't leave battles they are winning) 2) How badly are we outnumbered? (this should never be a factor in the start of a match) 3.a) What does the other team look like; are they mostly comprised of squads? 3.b) What does my team look like; are they mostly comprised of academy freshies? (I can't be expected to lead people to victory as a veteran when I have no way of communicating with them) 5) What is the state of the map when I join; are most of the objectives red? (why should I be expected to fight an uphill battle and/or pickup the slack for the rest of my team?) Truth be told there are some matches that just aren't worth the trouble. There is no incentive to fighting a losing battle except for some e-bushido and kudos. Pub matches are a little different because you still get an ISK reward for it in the end, so you can maybe run BPO suits and come out with a profit but it's probably going to be a grueling experience due to the lack of performance from your gear. Faction Warfare is a completely different story as there is very little incentive to fighting those losing battles - the lack of a matchmaker (note that I don't think this should change) means that a bunch of academy freshies can join in and not have a freaggin clue of what they're doing. I just left a match in which a player was trying to shoot me with a Swarm Launcher. So when you get into an FW match in which your team is pulled randomly from the que, you're sometimes subject to one-sided fights. But what benefit is there to stay? You get dramatically less LP, no standings gains, and 40% of your ISK loss. With the time you'd spend doing that you'd be better off waiting for another match that might be in your favor, and thusly people leave early. This isn't even touching on the fact that it is just a horrible experience to spend the majority of the match spawning/walking around without getting anything accomplished. Punishing players for leaving is -NOT- going to solve these problems, it'll just make them turn off the PS3 and go do something else. If I have to throw out a collateral for a battle that I get screwed in, or if I have to sit and wait for a timer to expire before I get into another match, you can bet your ass I'm not going to be playing this game much anymore - I'll go find something better to do. There needs to be more incentive to stick with the battle from beginning to end, more value in actually fighting. Give players a -REASON- to stick around, don't give them -MORE REASONS NOT TO-. What it comes down to is a simple question: WHY should I stay in the battles I know aren't going to be in my favor? Instead of trying to fix the match maker (which has had a negative effect if the forums are any clue) maybe we should be looking at what incentives there are to actually staying in a match that is primarily affecting the things that are important to us: Stats, wallets, time, enjoyability, and personal feeling of accomplishment. Aeon Amadi for CPM 2 Design A SKIN 2
Alcina Nektaria KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 96	Posted - 2015.08.04 15:40:00 - [2] - Quote Your points are well made. However, staying in the match to fight can prove to be fun. I know I've been in terribly losing matches before, but I stayed just for the lols of killing people. What few realize is that people follow patterns. If you figure out a way to counter those patterns in the long run it will make you a better player. Besides, there is nothing wrong with switching to an Apex or other free suit and just going to town. Go take a dropship somewhere high and start blasting out installations with AV fits or focus on enemy vehicles. Regardless, you are losing out on SP and ISK to be gained by leaving the battle. Do I care when I get put on a team against a Qsync of 0.H.? No, I stay and fight and try my hardest to get on their level. *KEQ Diplomat* Gallente Loyalist ... Come at me bro. A grenade to the head will most certainly get you dead.
Dusters Blog Galactic News Network 777	Posted - 2015.08.04 15:45:00 - [3] - Quote as the game continues its slow, grueling death we'll point out we addressed this years ago http://dustmercs.blogspot.com/2013/01/use-isk-as-motivator.html we'll now enjoy a quick second of 'i told u so' The PS2 Whiteboard Project https://docs.google.com/document/d/14yCg0oUUyqJUTCSzIRx4z_dhS1aXHbubI0Hb3H6x5Is/edit
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD RUST415 1	Posted - 2015.08.04 15:46:00 - [4] - Quote You're also gonna get paid far less even though you carried 10 blues to a W.... something about that doesn't sit well with me. "Anybody order chaos?"
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 11	Posted - 2015.08.04 15:46:00 - [5] - Quote Alcina Nektaria wrote: Your points are well made. However, staying in the match to fight can prove to be fun. I know I've been in terribly losing matches before, but I stayed just for the lols of killing people. What few realize is that people follow patterns. If you figure out a way to counter those patterns in the long run it will make you a better player. Besides, there is nothing wrong with switching to an Apex or other free suit and just going to town. Go take a dropship somewhere high and start blasting out installations with AV fits or focus on enemy vehicles. Regardless, you are losing out on SP and ISK to be gained by leaving the battle. Do I care when I get put on a team against a Qsync of 0.H.? No, I stay and fight and try my hardest to get on their level. That isn't often the case in FW as you get no ISK reward and the LP payouts for losing are sub-optimal unless you're using boosters or have a very high rank. Since you don't get standings for losing... You're likely not going to increase in rank after consistent losses. In Pubs, yes, absolutely you will get ISK - but not as much as winning it seems and players shouldn't be expected to escalate when they're going ISK negative in doing so. This creates a negative feedback loop in which the losing team, which dies more often, will either have to escalate the gear used and pay out of pocket for it in the end... or start running BPO's and lower their performance. Whereas the winning team can freely escalate (dying less) to high end gear without worrying too much about going ISK negative. They -also- get access to more orbitals due to the higher WP gains from their winning. Aeon Amadi for CPM 2 Design A SKIN 2
mr musturd Nos Nothi 788	Posted - 2015.08.04 15:49:00 - [6] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Alcina Nektaria wrote: Your points are well made. However, staying in the match to fight can prove to be fun. I know I've been in terribly losing matches before, but I stayed just for the lols of killing people. What few realize is that people follow patterns. If you figure out a way to counter those patterns in the long run it will make you a better player. Besides, there is nothing wrong with switching to an Apex or other free suit and just going to town. Go take a dropship somewhere high and start blasting out installations with AV fits or focus on enemy vehicles. Regardless, you are losing out on SP and ISK to be gained by leaving the battle. Do I care when I get put on a team against a Qsync of 0.H.? No, I stay and fight and try my hardest to get on their level. That isn't often the case in FW as you get no ISK reward and the LP payouts for losing are sub-optimal unless you're using boosters or have a very high rank. Since you don't get standings for losing... You're likely not going to increase in rank after consistent losses. In Pubs, yes, absolutely you will get ISK - but not as much as winning it seems and players shouldn't be expected to escalate when they're going ISK negative in doing so. This creates a negative feedback loop in which the losing team, which dies more often, will either have to escalate the gear used and pay out of pocket for it in the end... or start running BPO's and lower their performance. Whereas the winning team can freely escalate (dying less) to high end gear without worrying too much about going ISK negative. They -also- get access to more orbitals due to the higher WP gains from their winning. Your right aeon but minus 2pts for using the words "negative feedback"
Count- -Crotchula Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 221	Posted - 2015.08.04 15:58:00 - [7] - Quote Dusters Blog wrote: as the game continues its slow, grueling death we'll point out we addressed this years ago http://dustmercs.blogspot.com/2013/01/use-isk-as-motivator.html we'll now enjoy a quick second of 'i told u so' I'm just reading this now and WOW, once again CCP turn a blind eye to ANYTHING useful said by ANYONE and continue to let the game fester.
Mortishai Belmont G.L.O.R.Y 893	Posted - 2015.08.04 16:03:00 - [8] - Quote Only pansies leave battles because they're outnumbered, redlined, or it's an "Up hill" battle. The C.EO. of G.L.O.R.Y, (~..)~ Now on Youtube ~(..~)
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 11	Posted - 2015.08.04 16:04:00 - [9] - Quote mr musturd wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Alcina Nektaria wrote: Your points are well made. However, staying in the match to fight can prove to be fun. I know I've been in terribly losing matches before, but I stayed just for the lols of killing people. What few realize is that people follow patterns. If you figure out a way to counter those patterns in the long run it will make you a better player. Besides, there is nothing wrong with switching to an Apex or other free suit and just going to town. Go take a dropship somewhere high and start blasting out installations with AV fits or focus on enemy vehicles. Regardless, you are losing out on SP and ISK to be gained by leaving the battle. Do I care when I get put on a team against a Qsync of 0.H.? No, I stay and fight and try my hardest to get on their level. That isn't often the case in FW as you get no ISK reward and the LP payouts for losing are sub-optimal unless you're using boosters or have a very high rank. Since you don't get standings for losing... You're likely not going to increase in rank after consistent losses. In Pubs, yes, absolutely you will get ISK - but not as much as winning it seems and players shouldn't be expected to escalate when they're going ISK negative in doing so. This creates a negative feedback loop in which the losing team, which dies more often, will either have to escalate the gear used and pay out of pocket for it in the end... or start running BPO's and lower their performance. Whereas the winning team can freely escalate (dying less) to high end gear without worrying too much about going ISK negative. They -also- get access to more orbitals due to the higher WP gains from their winning. Your right aeon but minus 2pts for using the words "negative feedback" Contrary Reaction. Aeon Amadi for CPM 2 Design A SKIN 2
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 11	Posted - 2015.08.04 16:05:00 - [10] - Quote Mortishai Belmont wrote: Only pansies leave battles because they're outnumbered, redlined, or it's an "Up hill" battle. And here, ladies and gentlemen, is an excellent example of what I was referring to with 'E-Bushido'. Aeon Amadi for CPM 2 Design A SKIN 2

Alcina Nektaria KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 96	Posted - 2015.08.04 16:13:00 - [11] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Alcina Nektaria wrote: Your points are well made. However, staying in the match to fight can prove to be fun. I know I've been in terribly losing matches before, but I stayed just for the lols of killing people. What few realize is that people follow patterns. If you figure out a way to counter those patterns in the long run it will make you a better player. Besides, there is nothing wrong with switching to an Apex or other free suit and just going to town. Go take a dropship somewhere high and start blasting out installations with AV fits or focus on enemy vehicles. Regardless, you are losing out on SP and ISK to be gained by leaving the battle. Do I care when I get put on a team against a Qsync of 0.H.? No, I stay and fight and try my hardest to get on their level. That isn't often the case in FW as you get no ISK reward and the LP payouts for losing are sub-optimal unless you're using boosters or have a very high rank. Since you don't get standings for losing... You're likely not going to increase in rank after consistent losses. In Pubs, yes, absolutely you will get ISK - but not as much as winning it seems and players shouldn't be expected to escalate when they're going ISK negative in doing so. This creates a negative feedback loop in which the losing team, which dies more often, will either have to escalate the gear used and pay out of pocket for it in the end... or start running BPO's and lower their performance. Whereas the winning team can freely escalate (dying less) to high end gear without worrying too much about going ISK negative. They -also- get access to more orbitals due to the higher WP gains from their winning. Higher WP isn't always the case. You could actually just pull out a rep tool or keep dropping uplinks and gain massive amounts of wp. Yeah that falls under the taboo of "WP Farming" but it's a necessary case where it is acceptable. WP are also the reason squadding up is adventageous, you have the potential to make a ton of WP to drop them obs. Or just find a factional Eve Pilot to drop OBs for you. There's many ways to be productive instead of leaving a battle. And you still get ISK payout for factionals even if you lose. Winning team gets less isk if they don't lose as many suits. You still get, what 20% of your losses? That still applies to using BPOs and cheap suits I believe. *KEQ Diplomat* Gallente Loyalist ... Come at me bro. A grenade to the head will most certainly get you dead.
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 1	Posted - 2015.08.04 16:24:00 - [12] - Quote Staying in a pub match measn much a ISk higer payout. Fighting a FW match to the bitter end and losing by one tick gives you the same LP payout as being redlined from start to finish. The attitude you are describing is one of a player that refuses to play unless everything is aligned in his favor. - Inferior enemies - Objectives going my way - We outnumber them - Superior blueberries. If anyone of these is against him, he quits. And good riddance. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me. "I sometimes wonder why I share stuff "- CCP Rattati vote Tesfa for CPM2
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 11	Posted - 2015.08.04 16:25:00 - [13] - Quote Alcina Nektaria wrote: Higher WP isn't always the case. You could actually just pull out a rep tool or keep dropping uplinks and gain massive amounts of wp. Yeah that falls under the taboo of "WP Farming" but it's a necessary case where it is acceptable. WP are also the reason squadding up is adventageous, you have the potential to make a ton of WP to drop them obs. Or just find a factional Eve Pilot to drop OBs for you. There's many ways to be productive instead of leaving a battle. And you still get ISK payout for factionals even if you lose. Winning team gets less isk if they don't lose as many suits. You still get, what 20% of your losses? That still applies to using BPOs and cheap suits I believe. O.o; no, you don't get ISK payout for FW. You get ISK reimbursement of your losses and if we're seriously advocating BPOs and cheap-fits in what is supposed to be a more competitive game mode, we're doing something seriously wrong. Again, what is the incentive to run better gear and go for that win if you're starkly losing? There isn't any, you just downgrade cheaper and cheaper to save ISK and decrease your own performance while the enemy increases their's. This is one of those times I'm seriously considering the plausibility of making Squad-less game modes and meta-level lockouts as a fallback to this sort of behavior. Which is, in and of itself, contrary to the New Eden theme. Aeon Amadi for CPM 2 Design A SKIN 2
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 11	Posted - 2015.08.04 16:26:00 - [14] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: Staying in a pub match measn much a ISk higer payout. Fighting a FW match to the bitter end and losing by one tick gives you the same LP payout as being redlined from start to finish. The attitude you are describing is one of a player that refuses to play unless everything is aligned in his favor. - Inferior enemies - Objectives going my way - We outnumber them - Superior blueberries. If anyone of these is against him, he quits. And good riddance. And who is he impressing when he stays and loses anyhow..? Aeon Amadi for CPM 2 Design A SKIN 2
Count- -Crotchula Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 221	Posted - 2015.08.04 16:27:00 - [15] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Mortishai Belmont wrote: Only pansies leave battles because they're outnumbered, redlined, or it's an "Up hill" battle. And here, ladies and gentlemen, is an excellent example of what I was referring to with 'E-Bushido'. yup, this wanker thinks that everyone has something to prove or some values to uphold and that you should spend your free time how somebody else expects you to spend your free time!
General Mosquito Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 228	Posted - 2015.08.04 16:29:00 - [16] - Quote Count- -Crotchula wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Mortishai Belmont wrote: Only pansies leave battles because they're outnumbered, redlined, or it's an "Up hill" battle. And here, ladies and gentlemen, is an excellent example of what I was referring to with 'E-Bushido'. yup, this wanker thinks that everyone has something to prove or some values to uphold and that you should spend your free time how somebody else expects you to spend your free time! Says the guy who calls people playing to win cowards. Just for some perspective. The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
Count- -Crotchula Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 221	Posted - 2015.08.04 16:29:00 - [17] - Quote Mortishai Belmont wrote: Only pansies leave battles because they're outnumbered, redlined, or it's an "Up hill" battle. yeh because being redlined by full proto teams hiding behind hills repping each other and subsequently warbarge striking your spawn is SOOOO MUCH FUN and we've all got so much to prove to random people on the internet. get off your high horse and take your head out of your ass then maybe you wouldn't talk so much **! I don't have a great deal of time to play games and I'll be DAMNED if I'm going to sit in the ***** redline and play against jobless neckbeards who have all the time in the world to play DUST. it's called using your time wisely, you're not proving anything to anyone by wasting your time. If YOUR idea of a good game is being stuck in the redline then more power to you, play DUST however you like but don't impose it on other people.
Count- -Crotchula Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 221	Posted - 2015.08.04 16:32:00 - [18] - Quote General Mosquito wrote: Count- -Crotchula wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Mortishai Belmont wrote: Only pansies leave battles because they're outnumbered, redlined, or it's an "Up hill" battle. And here, ladies and gentlemen, is an excellent example of what I was referring to with 'E-Bushido'. yup, this wanker thinks that everyone has something to prove or some values to uphold and that you should spend your free time how somebody else expects you to spend your free time! Says the guy who calls people playing to win cowards. Just for some perspective. I could explain how you're wrong but I'd be wasting my time. I'll just sit back, laugh and revel in the fact that you're mentally challenged.
General Mosquito Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 228	Posted - 2015.08.04 16:33:00 - [19] - Quote Count- -Crotchula wrote: I could explain how you're wrong but I'd be wasting my time. Please try to explain how I am wrong. I have your posts quoted, so please try and dispute my statement. The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
Dust User Horizons' Edge No Context 2	Posted - 2015.08.04 16:34:00 - [20] - Quote Another example of the pubstar alliance mentality. When you enter the polling booth make sure you ask yourself if this is the kind of representation you're looking for. Personally, I want to be represented by someone with high regard for honor and dignity. Vote Dust User for CPM 2.

General Mosquito Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 230	Posted - 2015.08.04 16:47:00 - [21] - Quote Dust User wrote: Personally, I want to be represented by someone with high regard for honor and dignity. I'd rather have someone who understands high level play, which someone who says "Oh thats just cheap, only scrubs play that way" is not capable of understanding. The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 11	Posted - 2015.08.04 16:48:00 - [22] - Quote Dust User wrote: Another example of the pubstar alliance mentality. When you enter the polling booth make sure you ask yourself if this is the kind of representation you're looking for. Personally, I want to be represented by someone with high regard for honor and dignity. Vote Dust User for CPM 2. Still waiting on you to elaborate where all this honor and dignity comes from apart from baseless claims. I mean, everyone knows that if you want to be represented by someone with honor and dignity you need to vote for me. An honorable man will explain his position. See how easy that claim is to make? Hell, I'd reckon I'm the most honorable out of all the candidates. Aeon Amadi for CPM 2 Design A SKIN 2
CUSE TOWN333 0uter.Heaven 2	Posted - 2015.08.04 16:58:00 - [23] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Dust User wrote: Another example of the pubstar alliance mentality. When you enter the polling booth make sure you ask yourself if this is the kind of representation you're looking for. Personally, I want to be represented by someone with high regard for honor and dignity. Vote Dust User for CPM 2. Still waiting on you to elaborate where all this honor and dignity comes from apart from baseless claims. I mean, everyone knows that if you want to be represented by someone with honor and dignity you need to vote for me. An honorable man will explain his position. See how easy that claim is to make? Hell, I'd reckon I'm the most honorable out of all the candidates. your talk about honor and just made a whole thread about leaveing battle. CBM
Dust User Horizons' Edge No Context 2	Posted - 2015.08.04 16:58:00 - [24] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Dust User wrote: Another example of the pubstar alliance mentality. When you enter the polling booth make sure you ask yourself if this is the kind of representation you're looking for. Personally, I want to be represented by someone with high regard for honor and dignity. Vote Dust User for CPM 2. Still waiting on you to elaborate where all this honor and dignity comes from apart from baseless claims. I mean, everyone knows that if you want to be represented by someone with honor and dignity you need to vote for me. An honorable man will explain his position. See how easy that claim is to make? Hell, I'd reckon I'm the most honorable out of all the candidates. My record speaks for itself. No need to elaborate on a matter that has been on public display for all to see. Usher in a new age of honor and vote Dust User.
howard sanchez Vader's-Fist 1	Posted - 2015.08.04 17:42:00 - [25] - Quote Good Post Aeon, Your valuation process of deciding whether to stay in a match or not is very similar to my own - and I expect, a lot of other players. One small point I will make (to see if anyone agrees) is that, when I fight in a pub on the underdog team (especially if outnumbered and outgeared) I stand to gain a lot more isk. Because payouts are based on the damage caused to the enemy's equipment. And because that payout pool is split between the combatants that finish the match - staying and pushing hard when heavily outnumbered and outgeared can actually be profitable.... That's my experience. Anyone else get that?
Cesar Geronimo DUST University Ivy League 41	Posted - 2015.08.04 17:53:00 - [26] - Quote As long as I believe I can get my magical 150 WP before the rounds ends, I usually play...
DeadlyAztec11 8	Posted - 2015.08.04 18:09:00 - [27] - Quote Everyone wants a fair match. Though few are willing to stick around when they are losing. Those people that leave contribute to the problem. So if you leave matches because you don't think they are worth it, then you are part of the problem and will only put someone else in your position. Because the matchmaker places connection as more important than statistics it means that often matches will be unbalanced. It is impossible to better the matchmaker because there are not enough people for it to matter. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
Middas Betancore 659	Posted - 2015.08.04 18:10:00 - [28] - Quote This is something I've been musing over for a few weeks and it's definitely a tough one I'm of the e-bushido camp, believing in playing hard mode and never running from a fight That said I still talk with and sympathise with many players who like you believe that some matches just aren't worth playing I find this hard to compute firstly as this is a competitive wargame in which there are winners and losers, if you spend all day looking for a fair fight then maybe new Eden or multiplayer at all isn't the place for you But that's not really attacking the problem I've mostly been thinking of this in relation to FW, ie if one faction is ruining the others on a regular basis what will make people want to fight for the losing faction The main idea I've been toying with is performance bonuses for losing players, some way of recognising that they at least stuck it out and tried Perhaps some equation relating to distance travelled/warpoints per min/kdr, dangerously open to farming perhaps. Perhaps also relating it to the rest of the losing team and even perhaps the winning team. "did u outscore almost everyone else in the match even though u lost?! Here have a cookie" Isk Destroyed/efficiency would be a good metric also, so if u lose but trash a load I proto players, bonus for u I think there is a balance to be found between materially Rewarding winners and also Rewarding losers who can be seen to ar least try hard Myself I'm of the htfu school, but I'm still interested in pursuing a better format of rewards for winners an losers Onnamon 4-State Protectorate Logistics Support State Task Force: Caldari Fw Channel CPM2 Candidate
Mobius Wyvern Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 6	Posted - 2015.08.04 18:10:00 - [29] - Quote Count- -Crotchula wrote: Dusters Blog wrote: as the game continues its slow, grueling death we'll point out we addressed this years ago http://dustmercs.blogspot.com/2013/01/use-isk-as-motivator.html we'll now enjoy a quick second of 'i told u so' I'm just reading this now and WOW, once again CCP turn a blind eye to ANYTHING useful said by ANYONE and continue to let the game fester. At some points during the Closed Beta it honestly seemed like the old team found our suggestions offensive, like we thought we could tell them what to do. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1	Posted - 2015.08.04 18:20:00 - [30] - Quote The frustration of dealing with uncooperative/stupid allies is the main thing. Players want to go toe-to-toe with equally matched foes,not be crushed underfoot by forces outside their control. So they're like "i wanted fun,i never agreed to have a whole team of noobs i'm outta here." -or- "I wanted a challenge,not to deal with being crippled by my own wallet AND team at the same time." (vs Pro) My suggestion? Maybe CCP should take one of the game mode(s) and label it under "training". In this mode 0 isk is gained,and 0 isk is lost (fittings never decrease). Yet players can still earn SP at the normal rate. And the modes not under "training" could be "live combat". Isk can be lost and gained. But SP rewarded is higher than "training". This way casuals will never have to suffer losses to try-hards unless they're willing. After these changes,penalties can be added to "live combat" to prevent leaving. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.

Heracles Porsche Random Gunz Rise Of Legion. 448	Posted - 2015.08.04 18:34:00 - [31] - Quote Aeon Amadi speaking truth to power, good luck with your cpm run, you already got my vote. Videos Erry Day https://www.youtube.com/c/HeraclesPorsche
Alcina Nektaria KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 100	Posted - 2015.08.04 18:36:00 - [32] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Alcina Nektaria wrote: Higher WP isn't always the case. You could actually just pull out a rep tool or keep dropping uplinks and gain massive amounts of wp. Yeah that falls under the taboo of "WP Farming" but it's a necessary case where it is acceptable. WP are also the reason squadding up is adventageous, you have the potential to make a ton of WP to drop them obs. Or just find a factional Eve Pilot to drop OBs for you. There's many ways to be productive instead of leaving a battle. And you still get ISK payout for factionals even if you lose. Winning team gets less isk if they don't lose as many suits. You still get, what 20% of your losses? That still applies to using BPOs and cheap suits I believe. O.o; no, you don't get ISK payout for FW. You get ISK reimbursement of your losses and if we're seriously advocating BPOs and cheap-fits in what is supposed to be a more competitive game mode, we're doing something seriously wrong. Again, what is the incentive to run better gear and go for that win if you're starkly losing? There isn't any, you just downgrade cheaper and cheaper to save ISK and decrease your own performance while the enemy increases their's. This is one of those times I'm seriously considering the plausibility of making Squad-less game modes and meta-level lockouts as a fallback to this sort of behavior. Which is, in and of itself, contrary to the New Eden theme. Then run Proto and get a 20% reimbursement for your loss. Regardless leaving a match because things aren't in your favor is just absurd and you are just contributing to the broken matchmaking. Your team's MCC could be down to 3/4 armor and still turn the game around. Hell, even half armor. It's a matter of approach. Do you want to clone the enemy team if there's no way of getting and holding objectives, or do you want to actually attempt to hold objectives. In reality, the way to combat a team or squad of people is to have one of your own unless you are a super slayer star that there are so few of in this game to begin with. I don't know how many times it has to be reiterated that Dust514 is built on the premise of working together with team-mates. That is essentially one of the many things that sets it apart from other FPS games. *KEQ Diplomat* Gallente Loyalist ... Come at me bro. A grenade to the head will most certainly get you dead.
Beld Errmon 1	Posted - 2015.08.04 18:54:00 - [33] - Quote While I can certainly understand Aeons point of view on this matter, fighting against the odds has its own rewards http://imgur.com/eyRmdvj In that battle our team was outnumbered like this from the start, they quickly dominated the city and it looked like it was gunna be another boring one sided domination, but once an ADS had dropped some links and cleared their initial blob the 6 guys who stuck in the battle took back the city and kept it all match against twice their number. I suppose my point is even if it looks like its gunna be a crap match, people can surprise you and it feels great when you win against the odds. Assault Dropship Pilot Semi-Retired Closed Bittervet
Dragonmeballs Better Hide R Die 153	Posted - 2015.08.04 19:01:00 - [34] - Quote Aeon, Might I suggest the following: A bonus payment based on the merc's quit ratio. Where a merc's quit ratio is the number of battle quits divided by the number of battles entered. This multiplier can either be applied to the match payout or to a set bonus value I'll get to later. Merc A: 200 matches of 200 completed: 200/200=1 Merc B: 180 matches of 200 completed: 180/200= .9 Merc C: 150 matches of 200 completed: 150/200= .75 Assume the end of match available bonus is 100k. Merc A would get 100k, B gets 90k and C gets 0k. Why didn't merc C get a bonus? I really don't think we should consider any kind of bonus to somebody who can't seem to stay in 80% of their matches. How is the match bonus calculated? Several options are available. The bonus value could be: 1. A flat set value= 100,000 ISK per merc but payed based on quit ratio like above. (AFK SP rules apply to bonus eligibility--no contribute, no bonus, bacon or tacos for you) 2. Flat match pool divided by a calculation involving quit ratio and WP--very similar to payouts now but including an effective bonus related to demonstrated match to match tenacity (quit ratio) 3. WP related activity (hacking, uplinks, kills within a given distance of the objective) to working the objective. (Sorry....redline sniping does not count) In other words work related to taking an objective pay in some way just like defending an objective. Bonus payout is based on working the objective and quit ratio 4. Bonus value is based on Matchmaker score. Even teams have lower matching available bonus. When or if the match goes uneven the new Matchmaker score adjusts the bonus accordingly. A stomp team watches their available bonus evaporate. A stomped team is now competing for a piece of much larger "balance compensation" bonus. Payoff of the bonus is again payed based on quit ratio. It is important the actual bonus not be a huge sum of isk but influential enough to provide a little motivation to potential quitters. Blueberry!....Make yourself useful and shoot the blurry thing running this way!
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 1	Posted - 2015.08.04 19:29:00 - [35] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: Staying in a pub match measn much a ISk higer payout. Fighting a FW match to the bitter end and losing by one tick gives you the same LP payout as being redlined from start to finish. The attitude you are describing is one of a player that refuses to play unless everything is aligned in his favor. - Inferior enemies - Objectives going my way - We outnumber them - Superior blueberries. If anyone of these is against him, he quits. And good riddance. And who is he impressing when he stays and loses anyhow..? Its not about impressing anybody. Not having the stomach to even try is a personal attitude. The devs do not need to step in and tweak the entire game around players who dont have the stomach to play anyone other than a weaker side. This goes for vets and noobs alike. Both groups are likley to quit when a ' big name ' corp is on the other roster. This isnt about noobs vs vsts. Its vets vs vets when one side is too scared to fight vs the other. Matchmaking needs to put people in a similar WP earned bracket sure. But matchmaking can only go so far. No match is garunteed a win. Quitting before you leave the warbarge is garunteed as a loss. The players who would rather lose (quit) than play really are a cancer to this game. Becuasse they immediatley turn and stomp lower skilled players and hide from the big boys. If anything there should be more incentive to make sure players who do stick around end up in fairly balanced matches. Which pretty much works. If your good enough to hold your own against, say negative feedback, you might be qued with them instead of stomping noobs. But if you just got your ass handed to you, the you should be qued up against lower MU tiers. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me. "I sometimes wonder why I share stuff "- CCP Rattati vote Tesfa for CPM2
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 1	Posted - 2015.08.04 19:30:00 - [36] - Quote Dust User wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Dust User wrote: Another example of the pubstar alliance mentality. When you enter the polling booth make sure you ask yourself if this is the kind of representation you're looking for. Personally, I want to be represented by someone with high regard for honor and dignity. Vote Dust User for CPM 2. Still waiting on you to elaborate where all this honor and dignity comes from apart from baseless claims. I mean, everyone knows that if you want to be represented by someone with honor and dignity you need to vote for me. An honorable man will explain his position. See how easy that claim is to make? Hell, I'd reckon I'm the most honorable out of all the candidates. My record speaks for itself. No need to elaborate on a matter that has been on public display for all to see. Usher in a new age of honor and vote Tesfa. Aw thanks man. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me. "I sometimes wonder why I share stuff "- CCP Rattati vote Tesfa for CPM2
Mahal Daj Mahal Tactical Enterprises 187	Posted - 2015.08.04 19:49:00 - [37] - Quote I'm one of those dudes that doesn't quit unless I'm about to be left behind for dinner IRL, so there's that. Full teams can be redlined, and not be able to fight their way back out to the field, so there's that. New Eden must be able to provide crushing victories, which are the yin to the yang of crushing defeat, so there's that. All that said, it seems to me like a match should be forfeited by the public-corporation offering the contract if there is a certain disparity in mercs present (8 vs 16 for example). The other side simply can't win due to the inability to field the required amount of force to win. The match would end with all counters stopping at their natural end (for calculating payouts and SP). So I propose: Once this ratio has been hit, all objectives are locked to their current teams, if an MCC is destroyed before this timer ends... then the match ends naturally. However, an acquisition type objective is placed on the map at one of the random terminals. This acquisition objective represents the controls for the stasis webifier that is keeping our MCC from warping out (MCC's aren't cheap, right?). Once the ratio is hit and the timer starts, people may still leave without penalty. If the remaining mercenaries are able to hold this single objective for 60-seconds or something, the MCC is freed and the battle is lost, without the destruction of the MCC. The company that didn't lose the MCC, even if they lost the territory would be grateful, and would pay a bonus to the mercenaries that stuck around and did this dirty work. Ideas? Here's the Maff: MCC's were valued around 130 Million isk in one of the earliest Dust514 videos, and their loss would be significant to any party that was an owner. What if there was a 2 Million isk pool for the mercs that stick around and successfully release the stasis web? This means that a team of 8 would get 250k each IF THEY ACCOMPLISHED THE MISSION, or a team of 2 would get 1M isk/each if they accomplished the mission. When sticks don't work, consider carrots -daj See my Post on Crashes: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2413361#post2413361
Mortishai Belmont G.L.O.R.Y 899	Posted - 2015.08.04 19:56:00 - [38] - Quote Count- -Crotchula wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Mortishai Belmont wrote: Only pansies leave battles because they're outnumbered, redlined, or it's an "Up hill" battle. And here, ladies and gentlemen, is an excellent example of what I was referring to with 'E-Bushido'. yup, this wanker thinks that everyone has something to prove or some values to uphold and that you should spend your free time how somebody else expects you to spend your free time! I prefer to be a bad ass taking on the whole enemy team and trying my best, rather then running like an infant in need of it's mothers milk. Clearly it's my preference of how to play and my opinion as well. You go ahead and leave 10 battles to find one that in your favor, don't complain when it makes you soft though. The C.EO. of G.L.O.R.Y, (~..)~ Now on Youtube ~(..~)
DeadlyAztec11 8	Posted - 2015.08.04 20:12:00 - [39] - Quote Mortishai Belmont wrote: Count- -Crotchula wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Mortishai Belmont wrote: Only pansies leave battles because they're outnumbered, redlined, or it's an "Up hill" battle. And here, ladies and gentlemen, is an excellent example of what I was referring to with 'E-Bushido'. yup, this wanker thinks that everyone has something to prove or some values to uphold and that you should spend your free time how somebody else expects you to spend your free time! I prefer to be a bad ass taking on the whole enemy team and trying my best, rather then running like an infant in need of it's mothers milk. Clearly it's my preference of how to play and my opinion as well. You go ahead and leave 10 battles to find one that in your favor, don't complain when it makes you soft though. Exactly. People don't like when there team is at a disadvantage. Though, they are very happy when their team has the advantage. The ironic thing is that people who only stick around when they are winning will never be able to increase their skills to turn around a losing match. They are basically being carried by their team and don't even realize it. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
Mortishai Belmont G.L.O.R.Y 900	Posted - 2015.08.04 20:23:00 - [40] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Mortishai Belmont wrote: Count- -Crotchula wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Mortishai Belmont wrote: Only pansies leave battles because they're outnumbered, redlined, or it's an "Up hill" battle. And here, ladies and gentlemen, is an excellent example of what I was referring to with 'E-Bushido'. yup, this wanker thinks that everyone has something to prove or some values to uphold and that you should spend your free time how somebody else expects you to spend your free time! I prefer to be a bad ass taking on the whole enemy team and trying my best, rather then running like an infant in need of it's mothers milk. Clearly it's my preference of how to play and my opinion as well. You go ahead and leave 10 battles to find one that in your favor, don't complain when it makes you soft though. Exactly. People don't like when there team is at a disadvantage. Though, they are very happy when their team has the advantage. The ironic thing is that people who only stick around when they are winning will never be able to increase their skills to turn around a losing match. They are basically being carried by their team and don't even realize it. Some people need their crutch I guess. The C.EO. of G.L.O.R.Y, (~..)~ Now on Youtube ~(..~)

Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 12	Posted - 2015.08.04 21:32:00 - [41] - Quote Alcina Nektaria wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Alcina Nektaria wrote: Higher WP isn't always the case. You could actually just pull out a rep tool or keep dropping uplinks and gain massive amounts of wp. Yeah that falls under the taboo of "WP Farming" but it's a necessary case where it is acceptable. WP are also the reason squadding up is adventageous, you have the potential to make a ton of WP to drop them obs. Or just find a factional Eve Pilot to drop OBs for you. There's many ways to be productive instead of leaving a battle. And you still get ISK payout for factionals even if you lose. Winning team gets less isk if they don't lose as many suits. You still get, what 20% of your losses? That still applies to using BPOs and cheap suits I believe. O.o; no, you don't get ISK payout for FW. You get ISK reimbursement of your losses and if we're seriously advocating BPOs and cheap-fits in what is supposed to be a more competitive game mode, we're doing something seriously wrong. Again, what is the incentive to run better gear and go for that win if you're starkly losing? There isn't any, you just downgrade cheaper and cheaper to save ISK and decrease your own performance while the enemy increases their's. This is one of those times I'm seriously considering the plausibility of making Squad-less game modes and meta-level lockouts as a fallback to this sort of behavior. Which is, in and of itself, contrary to the New Eden theme. Then run Proto and get a 20% reimbursement for your loss. Regardless leaving a match because things aren't in your favor is just absurd and you are just contributing to the broken matchmaking. Your team's MCC could be down to 3/4 armor and still turn the game around. Hell, even half armor. It's a matter of approach. Do you want to clone the enemy team if there's no way of getting and holding objectives, or do you want to actually attempt to hold objectives. In reality, the way to combat a team or squad of people is to have one of your own unless you are a super slayer star that there are so few of in this game to begin with. I don't know how many times it has to be reiterated that Dust514 is built on the premise of working together with team-mates. That is essentially one of the many things that sets it apart from other FPS games. Now why on earth is it absurd that I, a man who works a full time job and is a full time student, would want to have an enjoyable if challenging experience in the limited time that I have to actually sit down and play the game..? And no, when the MCC is at half armor is -VERY- difficult to turn the game around because of two primary factors: A) The time it takes to complete a hack. Note that this is not hacking the panel, this is turning the null cannon over to your team, which takes a while. B) MCC cannons will destroy your MCC even if you have all the objectives in your favor. It is still very possible to lose even if you do manage to turn it around and thusly a lot of players will look at that situation upon joining a match and think, "Well I can stay and get a few thousand ISK or I can try again". There is no incentive to sticking around when you're getting marginal rewards for joining in late and also losing. And yes, the solo vs team debate is everlasting and I have had -MULTIPLE- arguments about it on Skype but what it comes down to is this: If you honestly expect players to work as a team you need to give them more ways to -ACT- like a team. This means actually being able to form and join squads mid-battle, being able to communicate with your team outside of unreliable voice commands (seriously, Battlefield has us completely trumped on this), and encouraging/incentivizing that behavior. If you want me to lead my team to victory, I'll do it, but it's next to impossible when I can't even communicate with them. Am I supposed to rally my team with tactical shooting of my pistol? Aeon Amadi for CPM 2 Design A SKIN 2
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.08.04 21:57:00 - [42] - Quote There needs to be more rewards for battling against the odds.
Alcina Nektaria KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 100	Posted - 2015.08.04 22:03:00 - [43] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: If you honestly expect players to work as a team you need to give them more ways to -ACT- like a team. This means actually being able to form and join squads mid-battle, being able to communicate with your team outside of unreliable voice commands (seriously, Battlefield has us completely trumped on this), and encouraging/incentivizing that behavior. If you want me to lead my team to victory, I'll do it, but it's next to impossible when I can't even communicate with them. Am I supposed to rally my team with tactical shooting of my pistol? I won't keep bashing my head on a wall about how yes it is hard to turn a game around, but it's not impossible..... You say you need more ways to act like a team? Stay in the match then and do just that. Nuff said. *KEQ Diplomat* Gallente Loyalist ... Come at me bro. A grenade to the head will most certainly get you dead.
Alcina Nektaria KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 100	Posted - 2015.08.04 22:10:00 - [44] - Quote Honestly though, what kind of a CPM candidate are you to sit here and say that you refuse to play matches where you don't win? How can you sit there and be mad because you don't have the advantage. I understand not wanting to play if you are getting beaten to a pulp every single match, but that sounds more like a personal performance issue than a problem with the game. Point being, you are not making the game any better by being one of those that leaves because you can't pat yourself on the back with a sure win. No one ever wins everything. So what if your free time is limited? Maybe this isn't the game for you and maybe with having such limited time you shouldn't even be running for CPM. How will you deliver to the community as a voice without having the time to dedicate to it? *KEQ Diplomat* Gallente Loyalist ... Come at me bro. A grenade to the head will most certainly get you dead.
Archer Killian A13 SHIELD 17	Posted - 2015.08.04 22:12:00 - [45] - Quote I think its wrong to start a game thinking 'What can I get as a reward for playing?' when the whole point is that the game is supposed to be enjoyable to play and that's not happening if there is a trend of players quitting before the game starts. As for sustainable losses well risk vs reward is part of the game and the reason I personally don't use proto suits, the salvage helps and the starter fits are always there. I do feel for an outnumbered losing side that stays on and gets hammered though; I've been tempted to bung them some isk (tho haven't yet) and if I had an active corps I'd likely mail them complementing their determination and invite them to join up. I'd rather play with them, noobs or no than someone who is going to quit rather than lose. Being on the stomping side is not a good game either. I played a game tonight where I got three assists 'cos I was too slow to keep up with our teams blitzkrieg. "The best enemy is the one that shoots at you all game... and misses!" Dedicated Commando:- All races
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 12	Posted - 2015.08.04 22:49:00 - [46] - Quote Alcina Nektaria wrote: Honestly though, what kind of a CPM candidate are you to sit here and say that you refuse to play matches where you don't win? How can you sit there and be mad because you don't have the advantage. I understand not wanting to play if you are getting beaten to a pulp every single match, but that sounds more like a personal performance issue than a problem with the game. Point being, you are not making the game any better by being one of those that leaves because you can't pat yourself on the back with a sure win. No one ever wins everything. So what if your free time is limited? Maybe this isn't the game for you and maybe with having such limited time you shouldn't even be running for CPM. How will you deliver to the community as a voice without having the time to dedicate to it? Don't jump straight to the ad hominem just because you have nothing to counter what I'm saying besides "Oh well you should stay in the match because I said so". The team communication aspect of this game has been sorely lacking since day one and that has gotten -WORSE-, not better, especially with the removal of channels in battle. You can't start a squad if you can't see the team readout. In fact, I'm wondering why they even have the team readout anymore as it is fundamentally useless apart from shouting in the darkness asking if anyone has a mic only to be met with absolute silence. Here's an ambush match in which I made the honest to god effort to turn the match around - I even escalated to using my Prototype Caldari Logi with strategically placed uplinks and nanohives to get a frontline established. It worked, but considering I joined the match with about 15 clones left against their 50, it wasn't surprising when the one warbarge strike (which, as I mentioned before, is a reward for the winning team for already winning) from a -four man squad- ended the match by wiping out my entire team. And while I'm sure your next argument is "well you shouldn't have been grouped up", that has absolutely nothing to do with what the inevitable point is: Why should I have stayed and bothered for any reason other than the ISK, considering that it is a pub match? If it were a faction warfare match there would be literally no reason to stick around and I would have left as soon as I joined. That match happened -literally- five minutes ago, and is the most recent match I've played today. Simply hand-waving and saying, "Oh well you're not making it any better by leaving" doesn't interest me, because the only reason you care is because I am a CPM candidate. If I resign my candidacy -right now-, what would be your argument then? That I'm a bastard or a coward for doing it? Doesn't change the fact that I -am- going to leave because I determined it to be a waste of my time and not worth the effort in playing. Need more evidence? How about the match I played before that where it wasn't even worth the time it took to get into the match. . You can hand-wave all you want and sideline the argument with "well maybe this isn't the game for you" because you don't -actually have an argument- against why the changes should be made. Fact of the matter is that I've been playing this game for more than three years now and only -now- is players leaving the match becoming a problem. I wonder, which changed? The player base? Or the game? You need only look at the match maker changes for that answer. Aeon Amadi for CPM 2 Design A SKIN 2
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 1	Posted - 2015.08.04 23:04:00 - [47] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Let's take a look at this objectively real quick. When I get into a match I look at a few things: 1) Did I get in at the start of the match or am I being thrown in as filler for someone else that already left? (players usually don't leave battles they are winning) 2) How badly are we outnumbered? (this should never be a factor in the start of a match) 3.a) What does the other team look like; are they mostly comprised of squads? 3.b) What does my team look like; are they mostly comprised of academy freshies? (I can't be expected to lead people to victory as a veteran when I have no way of communicating with them) 5) What is the state of the map when I join; are most of the objectives red? (why should I be expected to fight an uphill battle and/or pickup the slack for the rest of my team?) Truth be told there are some matches that just aren't worth the trouble. There is no incentive to fighting a losing battle except for some e-bushido and kudos. Pub matches are a little different because you still get an ISK reward for it in the end, so you can maybe run BPO suits and come out with a profit but it's probably going to be a grueling experience due to the lack of performance from your gear. Faction Warfare is a completely different story as there is very little incentive to fighting those losing battles - the lack of a matchmaker (note that I don't think this should change) means that a bunch of academy freshies can join in and not have a freaggin clue of what they're doing. I just left a match in which a player was trying to shoot me with a Swarm Launcher. So when you get into an FW match in which your team is pulled randomly from the que, you're sometimes subject to one-sided fights. But what benefit is there to stay? You get dramatically less LP, no standings gains, and 40% of your ISK loss. With the time you'd spend doing that you'd be better off waiting for another match that might be in your favor, and thusly people leave early. This isn't even touching on the fact that it is just a horrible experience to spend the majority of the match spawning/walking around without getting anything accomplished. Punishing players for leaving is -NOT- going to solve these problems, it'll just make them turn off the PS3 and go do something else. If I have to throw out a collateral for a battle that I get screwed in, or if I have to sit and wait for a timer to expire before I get into another match, you can bet your ass I'm not going to be playing this game much anymore - I'll go find something better to do. There needs to be more incentive to stick with the battle from beginning to end, more value in actually fighting. Give players a -REASON- to stick around, don't give them -MORE REASONS NOT TO-. What it comes down to is a simple question: WHY should I stay in the battles I know aren't going to be in my favor? Instead of trying to fix the match maker (which has had a negative effect if the forums are any clue) maybe we should be looking at what incentives there are to actually staying in a match that is primarily affecting the things that are important to us: Stats, wallets, time, enjoyability, and personal feeling of accomplishment. Ah, a full description of the "Cattle Mentality"... AKA the mindless masses who push at the fence trying to get a piece of grass on the other side, just because they think it's better than the grass they are standing on.... All of these "situations" occur when people leave battles compulsively. ..... I mean really... did you not think about this? Putting a combat lock on deployment to prevent people from trying to "cow push" into another game is probably the best idea ever. I've seen streams of people pop in and leave, just because the points were all occupied as red. But the red couldn't defend a single one of them, because half of their team was entering midway, then leaving because they entered midway. That's how cattle work. They follow whatever chew looks best. There's no "stopping and thinking" or else they wouldn't be cattle. http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU Dust to Dust Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
Dust User Horizons' Edge No Context 2	Posted - 2015.08.04 23:07:00 - [48] - Quote Alcina Nektaria wrote: Honestly though, what kind of a CPM candidate are you to sit here and say that you refuse to play matches where you don't win? How can you sit there and be mad because you don't have the advantage. I understand not wanting to play if you are getting beaten to a pulp every single match, but that sounds more like a personal performance issue than a problem with the game. Point being, you are not making the game any better by being one of those that leaves because you can't pat yourself on the back with a sure win. No one ever wins everything. So what if your free time is limited? Maybe this isn't the game for you and maybe with having such limited time you shouldn't even be running for CPM. How will you deliver to the community as a voice without having the time to dedicate to it? And this is why you should vote Dust User for CPM 2.
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 12	Posted - 2015.08.04 23:16:00 - [49] - Quote Dust User wrote: Alcina Nektaria wrote: Honestly though, what kind of a CPM candidate are you to sit here and say that you refuse to play matches where you don't win? How can you sit there and be mad because you don't have the advantage. I understand not wanting to play if you are getting beaten to a pulp every single match, but that sounds more like a personal performance issue than a problem with the game. Point being, you are not making the game any better by being one of those that leaves because you can't pat yourself on the back with a sure win. No one ever wins everything. So what if your free time is limited? Maybe this isn't the game for you and maybe with having such limited time you shouldn't even be running for CPM. How will you deliver to the community as a voice without having the time to dedicate to it? And this is why you should vote Dust User for CPM 2. Yes, vote Dust User and his 'public history' of honor which is completely vapid. Tell me, Dust User, how would -you- go about players leaving battle? Aeon Amadi for CPM 2 Design A SKIN 2
Russel Mendoza Klandatu 228	Posted - 2015.08.04 23:31:00 - [50] - Quote This is a sickining attitude. Whine whine whine leave battle. Your one of those reason why matches sucks. Fight to the bitter end thats what we should be doing. The only good reason to leave battle is when you get disconnected. I'm the biggest Dustard in the universe!!! Summoning technique "Gorgon no jutsu" Vehicle request accepted.

Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 12	Posted - 2015.08.04 23:37:00 - [51] - Quote Russel Mendoza wrote: This is a sickining attitude. Whine whine whine leave battle. Your one of those reason why matches sucks. Fight to the bitter end thats what we should be doing. The only good reason to leave battle is when you get disconnected. .... Why? That's the question I can't seem to get an answer to. Aeon Amadi for CPM 2 Design A SKIN 2
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 20	Posted - 2015.08.04 23:58:00 - [52] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Russel Mendoza wrote: This is a sickining attitude. Whine whine whine leave battle. Your one of those reason why matches sucks. Fight to the bitter end thats what we should be doing. The only good reason to leave battle is when you get disconnected. .... Why? That's the question I can't seem to get an answer to. You are making a valid point despite the ad hominem attacks of those that quite simply don't seem to grasp that the concept is more general than specific. Simply put there is no reason beyond one you give yourself. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
Russel Mendoza Klandatu 228	Posted - 2015.08.05 00:01:00 - [53] - Quote Why what leave battle or stay in battle. Why leave battle no good reason unless you got disconnected. Why stay in battle because you went looking for one now go and battle. If your reason for leaving battle is those things you enumerated dont look for battle. You want a sure win easy money easy time and good old fun dont look for battle look for those. I'm the biggest Dustard in the universe!!! Summoning technique "Gorgon no jutsu" Vehicle request accepted.
Protected Void Nos Nothi 439	Posted - 2015.08.05 00:03:00 - [54] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Russel Mendoza wrote: This is a sickining attitude. Whine whine whine leave battle. Your one of those reason why matches sucks. Fight to the bitter end thats what we should be doing. The only good reason to leave battle is when you get disconnected. .... Why? That's the question I can't seem to get an answer to. I never leave battle because the match is skewed in terms of numbers, skill level or current progress of the match. These are my reasons: - I enjoy a challenge and get bored quickly by easy games - Getting kills on or creating trouble for superior opposition is worth a hundredfold more than easy kills, and therefore allows me to achieve personal victories even if my team can't win - Leaving matches ruins it for everybody, and basically ensures the game will continue to deliver sub-par matchmaking/team balancing Every single one of the above points is a good enough reason for me to stay in hard matches. Put together, they make it a no-brainer.
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. RUST415 2	Posted - 2015.08.05 00:06:00 - [55] - Quote Let's not get sucked into a e-peen measuring contest. The OP brought up a concern shared by many dust players. Whether you agree with their motivation or not is irrelevant. What is important, and the OP was clearly striving for this is a discussion of ways to incentivize staying in battle. How could the payouts/mechanics be changed to play to the afore mentioned motivations. Potential ideas (many of which are bad, I'm just spit ballin' here): * remove all mention of kdr and replace it with some other star * increase all payouts * have payouts based on intensity of activity (This may be determined by some king of complex ratio involving but not limited to: Deaths due to enemy fire, kills, assists, wp, shots which hit, shots near enemies, equipment deployed, time near objective, time spent near squad mates, time spent near enemies, distance traveled, all of these vs time in match) * meta level reatricted matches * squad free matches * squad only matches * timer for stay in friendly redline area * more geographically restricted redlines ( no line of sight in or out) * timer basses orbitals for redlined teams (Earn one every 3 min. when 90% of your team is in the redline continuously) I am out of brain vomit but there are some okay ideas (along with many horrible ones). Discuss, throw new ideas out, let's propose a fix that incentivizes play over quitting. Now with more evil.
Henchmen21 Planet Express LLC 1	Posted - 2015.08.05 00:16:00 - [56] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: Staying in a pub match measn much a ISk higer payout. Fighting a FW match to the bitter end and losing by one tick gives you the same LP payout as being redlined from start to finish. The attitude you are describing is one of a player that refuses to play unless everything is aligned in his favor. - Inferior enemies - Objectives going my way - We outnumber them - Superior blueberries. If anyone of these is against him, he quits. And good riddance. And who is he impressing when he stays and loses anyhow..? There's this trait that humans have, its called self satisfaction. As in doing something hard for no other reason then it makes you feel good simply because you did something hard. Some people don't need approval from others to know where they stand. Acquisition is terrible, matchmaking is terrible, your game is still riddled with bugs, you should feel bad.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 20	Posted - 2015.08.05 00:19:00 - [57] - Quote Russel Mendoza wrote: You want a sure win easy money easy time and good old fun dont look for battle look for those. Russel Mendoza wrote: You want a sure win easy money easy time and good old fun dont look for battle look for those. Russel Mendoza wrote: You want a sure win easy money easy time and good old fun dont look for battle look for those. Your words are depressing. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 12	Posted - 2015.08.05 00:19:00 - [58] - Quote True Adamance wrote: You are making a valid point despite the ad hominem attacks of those that quite simply don't seem to grasp that the concept is more general than specific. Simply put there is no reason beyond one you give yourself. Tu quoque. The argument goes both ways, but no-one is criticizing the players that stay for the suicide mission even if it is an unsound strategy. Protected Void wrote: I never leave battle because the match is skewed in terms of numbers, skill level or current progress of the match. These are my reasons: - I enjoy a challenge and get bored quickly by easy games - Getting kills on or creating trouble for superior opposition is worth a hundredfold more than easy kills, and therefore allows me to achieve personal victories even if my team can't win - Leaving matches ruins it for everybody, and basically ensures the game will continue to deliver sub-par matchmaking/team balancing Every single one of the above points is a good enough reason for me to stay in hard matches. Put together, they make it a no-brainer. I enjoy a challenge as well - when it is an actual challenge. There is a stark difference between going up against a stronger opponent and going up against a brick wall. You don't learn anything going 1v5, as there is nothing to learn there besides how long you can evade and maybe get a lucky kill. And sure, leaving matches ruins it for everybody, and while I am concerned about the community's interests as a CPM candidate (because I -know- someone is going to bring that up as soon as they read what I'm about to say next) I'm not obligated to hand-hold everyone in the game at the expense of my own enjoyment. EDIT: ESPECIALLY when there is, what I believe, to be a mechanical defect in the match maker and not the players themselves. We play games to have fun. There are a great deal of us who believe that challenging =/= punishing. Dust 514 is a competitive, difficult game, but that difficulty becomes wholly unnecessary when it comes to things well out of our control such as being placed in matches where we are clearly outnumbered, outgunned, and outskilled - sometimes all at once. And while I would love to follow along with the "stick with it because #reasons" crowd, I personally find little to no enjoyment with spending the majority of my game time staring at the respawn screen. Aeon Amadi for CPM 2 Design A SKIN 2
Russel Mendoza Klandatu 228	Posted - 2015.08.05 00:24:00 - [59] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Russel Mendoza wrote: You want a sure win easy money easy time and good old fun dont look for battle look for those. Russel Mendoza wrote: You want a sure win easy money easy time and good old fun dont look for battle look for those. Russel Mendoza wrote: You want a sure win easy money easy time and good old fun dont look for battle look for those. Your words are depressing. We are not in school. I did not expect people to correct my words. I'm the biggest Dustard in the universe!!! Summoning technique "Gorgon no jutsu" Vehicle request accepted.
Dust User Horizons' Edge No Context 2	Posted - 2015.08.05 16:29:00 - [60] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Dust User wrote: Alcina Nektaria wrote: Honestly though, what kind of a CPM candidate are you to sit here and say that you refuse to play matches where you don't win? How can you sit there and be mad because you don't have the advantage. I understand not wanting to play if you are getting beaten to a pulp every single match, but that sounds more like a personal performance issue than a problem with the game. Point being, you are not making the game any better by being one of those that leaves because you can't pat yourself on the back with a sure win. No one ever wins everything. So what if your free time is limited? Maybe this isn't the game for you and maybe with having such limited time you shouldn't even be running for CPM. How will you deliver to the community as a voice without having the time to dedicate to it? And this is why you should vote Dust User for CPM 2. Yes, vote Dust User and his 'public history' of honor which is completely vapid. Tell me, Dust User, how would -you- go about players leaving battle? I would have CONCORD send the player a message after they left battle that reads something like this: "You are a coward and your lack of honor is appalling. May I suggest you tuck your tail between your legs and join the pubstar alliance where they encourage this type of scumbag behavior." Vote Dust User for CPM and show these spineless, yellow-bellied cowards that we have the stronger voice to be heard.

Vyuru Algintal Core Gallente Federation 215	Posted - 2015.08.05 17:25:00 - [61] - Quote Tossing in my 2 ISk. I'm on both sides here. There have been plenty of games I have fought to the bitter end, there have been plenty of games where I joined late, and I can point to my contribution as the reason we turned the match around. People are right, you can turn around a match last minute, and I know exactly what the MCC armor point is where we can turn it around and beat an almost full health enemy MCC if we can keep the point. And I've done it plenty of times. It does require a team working together (or mostly together) though. However there are also other times where no matter what I do, my team refuses to work as a team, push for an objective, and get slaughtered en masse. For example, I had a Domination match not long ago, 11 vs 14 in the enemy team's favor. Myself and 5 other people went dashing for the objective, the rest of my team took up sniping positions of all things in a map that did not favor sniping (indoor objective, and lots of indoor action) 3 of my team mates peeled off to hack useless turrets and ignored CRU's. Myself and the other 3 people hacked and briefly held the objective against a full 14 man team with no help from the rest of the team. Once they saw what my team was like, the enemy team switched to proto gear and redlined 'em, while leaving 5-8 people to guard the objective. Even if the rest of the team had followed in Heavy's and arrived late, we could have kept that point. The enemy team was not that good frankly. No one spawned in on our uplinks. We were entrenched first and we could have held that objective. As it was, we brought the enemy MCC's shields to half before we were overrun. I was the ONLY one who tried to sneak past and hack the objective, sneak uplinks, hack other things, etc. Not a fun match in any way shape or form. These matches are not an every day occurance, but they are not infrequent either. You can normally see some common signs that what you are about to get into is one of those one sided fights. Pretty much boils down to, if my team is going to try, I'll stick around and fight with them. If my team is going to mess around and not even try to hack the first point next to our redline? Not sticking around unless I want to cause havoc and mayhem for the opposing team. Which sometimes I feel like, sometimes I don't. And frankly, why should I be punished for not wanting to waste MY isk and MY K/D ratio for people who are basically AWOXing? That is really how I view it.
PARKOUR PRACTIONER D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 3	Posted - 2015.08.05 17:54:00 - [62] - Quote I see interesting points from both sides, so im going to state my opinion on it. I don't have a solution for it just my humble but shamelessly awesome opinion. I dont personally like the attitude of its not going my way so why waste my time, but i think i understand a part of it, the honor fight til the death attitude is more my thing. There's a lack from the fight to the deathers of playing it safe. Sometimes its more reasonable and tactical to let it be instead of rushing into it. But, i view the its a waste of timers as that guy that no one likes. There's a serious lack of the hell with it just go for it a knowing when its actually safe to just let it go. You know what, this fight, too difficult not my style im leaving irritats me. But your not going to get any better without a challenge, people never leaving are not going to know when to stop until stopped. Either self-preservation or no regard for the safety of yourselves or others. Needs more suggestions instead of demeaning in the greatest. Sil4ntChaozz You don't need to follow the rules of the game you just need to keep breaking it until it works-JSE xD
Cesar Geronimo Dust University Ivy League 44	Posted - 2015.08.05 19:05:00 - [63] - Quote Vyuru wrote: Pretty much boils down to, if my team is going to try, I'll stick around and fight with them. If my team is going to mess around and not even try to hack the first point next to our redline? Not sticking around unless I want to cause havoc and mayhem for the opposing team. Which sometimes I feel like, sometimes I don't. +1000 I learned long ago to save my sanity and just reciprocate the efforts of random teammates... If they're sniping or screwing around in the back, I slap on the starter militia suits and do the same... If they're playing hard and aggressive regardless of score, then I play my best...(Well, they also have to be playing with at least 10% intelligence, and not be that guy trying to kill tanks with an AR)...If someone gets on mic and starts coordinating, I do the same...
Paulus Phen502 Random Gunz Rise Of Legion. 41	Posted - 2015.08.05 19:34:00 - [64] - Quote As someone who has had 15 FW bpos and earned a lot running solo(no not all of course) this is a very interesting topic. FW for me seems to be the one game mode where if my side gets 5 capped early I no longer want to play the match all the time. And seeing a full q on the otherside before the fight doesn't feel great either. BUT on the other hand much can be gained by facing these types of adversity. As a bpo collector though if the match appears to be unwinnable I do find sometimes I just move on cause getting stomped for 20 minutes for 200 lp just doesn't seem worth it(usually). #honor is right about the importance of manning up and just having a true never say die mentallity that is sorely missing from so many players and maybe even more PC corp or corps in general. I guess a strategic defeat like folding in a hand of cards so you can get to the next better deal isn't always bad either but I wouldn't want it to be something we praise either. And I will say I think the CPM could use someone with DUST USERs mentality, I doubt he would be afraid to confront the devs who can't even get victory screens to work. More of the canidates need to consider that maybe the worst thing they could do is go in and try and be buddies when many of the people playing are actively and agressively in disagreement with CCP even though they continue to play and even enjoy the game at times. "There's no stoppin' what can't be stopped, no killin' what can't be killed," King Willie Predator II.
Reign Omega T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K 1	Posted - 2015.08.05 19:42:00 - [65] - Quote There shouldn't be any change to incentives for pubs, after all...theyre pubs. Fw, there needs to be a standings increase and payout increase for losses, maybe only if you fight for the faction you pledge yourself to. Right now, even more so than before this game is harsh on solo players, hell its even harsh on squads with all the queue synchronization going on, but that's the infrastructure of the game, and people want to play with associates, and to win. (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!! The Incursions are back... and they're golden baby!
lee corwood TRAILS AND TRIBULATIONS No Context 1	Posted - 2015.08.05 20:42:00 - [66] - Quote Just my perspective here. I'm a pretty horribad player but there's generally only a few times I've left battle: - when I have to leave in real life - when my corp/alliance calls on me - when I DC or the game glitched me and I accidently hit leave game instead of suicide For the most part, if my team is doing really badly, I try to sneaky scout around and just hack something. Anything. If I can't, I just try to be somewhat annoying. Hell, if my team is doing this badly and I get killed that much, at least I'm helping the game to end faster That being said, I have to disagree with the statement that you can't 'teach' those players you can't communicate with. When all objectives are taken and no links are present, I spend most of my time, if I can manage, laying out as many links as I can. Sometimes, I'll pass a group of blueberries that see me as someone charging. And they follow. And if you know me and my gun game, you know I shouldn't be leading the charge on anything. But my running towards an objective unintentionally pushed them to clearing the way for an objective, even if it's the only one we end up taking and keeping the whole match. Because by themselves, they only know their experience of rushing in and dying immediately. But one saw me and said, I'll follow that one. The other one said, looks like we're trying something. And it builds. Even if we still lose the match, it's things like that to give newer players or even solo players a purpose to each game and more importantly a taste of what teamwork is supposed to look like. The next time, they might just lead the charge themselves because we just proved it worked. That only makes better players and thus better candidates for corps. Now, I completely understand the frustration point of having a team that refuses to move though. Especially whole squads that resort to shooting each other and nibbling little points off each other with reloading at each other's nanohives. No one likes those games. But you're making a blanket statement that EVERY game you leave is like this. That EVERY game couldn't possibly be turned around. That your leaving because they couldn't have learned anything. That might just be misinterpretation but you're speaking to it as if that's the case and your statements interpret to say "I don't want to play, I want to win". Knights of Ender Director Logi 4 Life \| Youtube Vids
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. RUST415 2	Posted - 2015.08.05 21:01:00 - [67] - Quote Reign Omega wrote: There shouldn't be any change to incentives for pubs, after all...theyre pubs. Fw, there needs to be a standings increase and payout increase for losses, maybe only if you fight for the faction you pledge yourself to. Right now, even more so than before this game is harsh on solo players, hell its even harsh on squads with all the queue synchronization going on, but that's the infrastructure of the game, and people want to play with associates, and to win. The problem with increasing FW payouts for loosing is that you're also creating an incentive for people to afk battles then. Think about it if you could afk your way to an apex suit which you then sell or use it would be pretty tempting to do so. I'd be in favor of increasing all FW payouts provided there is a minimum wp earned to receive payouts or salvage. Previously I have proposed 400wp for this minimum which others have called too high. Regardless of the numbers though something like this should accompany any payout increase. Now with more evil.
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2	Posted - 2015.08.06 03:01:00 - [68] - Quote The finger-pointing and recriminations going back and forth itt are pointless. Remind anybody of the old AFK arguments? The real point here is that CCP's game design on this issue sucks on multiple levels, and has for a long time. Players going at each other over CCP's dropped balls is like serfs tearing each other apart for a king who couldn't give two *****. Before we write each other off as worthless, recall that it was the AFKers who eventually got CCP to do something, though the solution(s) were half-assed(originally laughable, or 'rubber-band proof' in CCPspeak) and piecemeal. I'm with Aeon on this: from a gameplay perspective, especially for peeps who have busy lives outside of Dust, it sucks - when a player has only an hour at the end of the day to sit down and try to get some Dust time in, the last thing they need is three crappy matches owing to the multiple factors Aeon listed. After a couple days of that what's the motivation for that player to try and play the next day? There's a simple exercise that answers several needs in Dust: sit down and assume the identity of a merc recruiter for public contracts. Remember that(from the lore) these recruiter agents are like brokers: they're not working for any particular npc EVE Corp, but rather hiring out of a merc 'union hall'. Now write a contract with a set of perqs/punishments that gets good results out of mercs: wins, performance, reliability, teamwork. Reward the mercs with a solid work ethic, loosen up some of the restrictions/punishments, maybe give them a 'recruiter bonus' %age to daily mission rewards. A real contract system will take us a long way towards fixing Dust, written properly we can eventually leverage it into a primary tool for player-generated content. PSN: RationalSpark


Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online/DUST514, the EVE/DUST514 logo, EVE/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to OMG Labs to use EVE Online/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, OMG Labs. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.