DUST Search - Of Course People Are Going to Leave Battle

mr musturd wrote:

Aeon Amadi wrote:

Alcina Nektaria wrote:

Your points are well made. However, staying in the match to fight can prove to be fun. I know I've been in terribly losing matches before, but I stayed just for the lols of killing people.

What few realize is that people follow patterns. If you figure out a way to counter those patterns in the long run it will make you a better player. Besides, there is nothing wrong with switching to an Apex or other free suit and just going to town. Go take a dropship somewhere high and start blasting out installations with AV fits or focus on enemy vehicles. Regardless, you are losing out on SP and ISK to be gained by leaving the battle.

Do I care when I get put on a team against a Qsync of 0.H.? No, I stay and fight and try my hardest to get on their level.

That isn't often the case in FW as you get no ISK reward and the LP payouts for losing are sub-optimal unless you're using boosters or have a very high rank. Since you don't get standings for losing... You're likely not going to increase in rank after consistent losses.

In Pubs, yes, absolutely you will get ISK - but not as much as winning it seems and players shouldn't be expected to escalate when they're going ISK negative in doing so. This creates a negative feedback loop in which the losing team, which dies more often, will either have to escalate the gear used and pay out of pocket for it in the end... or start running BPO's and lower their performance. Whereas the winning team can freely escalate (dying less) to high end gear without worrying too much about going ISK negative. They -also- get access to more orbitals due to the higher WP gains from their winning.

Your right aeon but minus 2pts for using the words "negative feedback"

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Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 11	Posted - 2015.08.04 15:20:00 - [1] - Quote Let's take a look at this objectively real quick. When I get into a match I look at a few things: 1) Did I get in at the start of the match or am I being thrown in as filler for someone else that already left? (players usually don't leave battles they are winning) 2) How badly are we outnumbered? (this should never be a factor in the start of a match) 3.a) What does the other team look like; are they mostly comprised of squads? 3.b) What does my team look like; are they mostly comprised of academy freshies? (I can't be expected to lead people to victory as a veteran when I have no way of communicating with them) 5) What is the state of the map when I join; are most of the objectives red? (why should I be expected to fight an uphill battle and/or pickup the slack for the rest of my team?) Truth be told there are some matches that just aren't worth the trouble. There is no incentive to fighting a losing battle except for some e-bushido and kudos. Pub matches are a little different because you still get an ISK reward for it in the end, so you can maybe run BPO suits and come out with a profit but it's probably going to be a grueling experience due to the lack of performance from your gear. Faction Warfare is a completely different story as there is very little incentive to fighting those losing battles - the lack of a matchmaker (note that I don't think this should change) means that a bunch of academy freshies can join in and not have a freaggin clue of what they're doing. I just left a match in which a player was trying to shoot me with a Swarm Launcher. So when you get into an FW match in which your team is pulled randomly from the que, you're sometimes subject to one-sided fights. But what benefit is there to stay? You get dramatically less LP, no standings gains, and 40% of your ISK loss. With the time you'd spend doing that you'd be better off waiting for another match that might be in your favor, and thusly people leave early. This isn't even touching on the fact that it is just a horrible experience to spend the majority of the match spawning/walking around without getting anything accomplished. Punishing players for leaving is -NOT- going to solve these problems, it'll just make them turn off the PS3 and go do something else. If I have to throw out a collateral for a battle that I get screwed in, or if I have to sit and wait for a timer to expire before I get into another match, you can bet your ass I'm not going to be playing this game much anymore - I'll go find something better to do. There needs to be more incentive to stick with the battle from beginning to end, more value in actually fighting. Give players a -REASON- to stick around, don't give them -MORE REASONS NOT TO-. What it comes down to is a simple question: WHY should I stay in the battles I know aren't going to be in my favor? Instead of trying to fix the match maker (which has had a negative effect if the forums are any clue) maybe we should be looking at what incentives there are to actually staying in a match that is primarily affecting the things that are important to us: Stats, wallets, time, enjoyability, and personal feeling of accomplishment. Aeon Amadi for CPM 2 Design A SKIN 2
Alcina Nektaria KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 96	Posted - 2015.08.04 15:40:00 - [2] - Quote Your points are well made. However, staying in the match to fight can prove to be fun. I know I've been in terribly losing matches before, but I stayed just for the lols of killing people. What few realize is that people follow patterns. If you figure out a way to counter those patterns in the long run it will make you a better player. Besides, there is nothing wrong with switching to an Apex or other free suit and just going to town. Go take a dropship somewhere high and start blasting out installations with AV fits or focus on enemy vehicles. Regardless, you are losing out on SP and ISK to be gained by leaving the battle. Do I care when I get put on a team against a Qsync of 0.H.? No, I stay and fight and try my hardest to get on their level. *KEQ Diplomat* Gallente Loyalist ... Come at me bro. A grenade to the head will most certainly get you dead.
Dusters Blog Galactic News Network 777	Posted - 2015.08.04 15:45:00 - [3] - Quote as the game continues its slow, grueling death we'll point out we addressed this years ago http://dustmercs.blogspot.com/2013/01/use-isk-as-motivator.html we'll now enjoy a quick second of 'i told u so' The PS2 Whiteboard Project https://docs.google.com/document/d/14yCg0oUUyqJUTCSzIRx4z_dhS1aXHbubI0Hb3H6x5Is/edit
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD RUST415 1	Posted - 2015.08.04 15:46:00 - [4] - Quote You're also gonna get paid far less even though you carried 10 blues to a W.... something about that doesn't sit well with me. "Anybody order chaos?"
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 11	Posted - 2015.08.04 15:46:00 - [5] - Quote Alcina Nektaria wrote: Your points are well made. However, staying in the match to fight can prove to be fun. I know I've been in terribly losing matches before, but I stayed just for the lols of killing people. What few realize is that people follow patterns. If you figure out a way to counter those patterns in the long run it will make you a better player. Besides, there is nothing wrong with switching to an Apex or other free suit and just going to town. Go take a dropship somewhere high and start blasting out installations with AV fits or focus on enemy vehicles. Regardless, you are losing out on SP and ISK to be gained by leaving the battle. Do I care when I get put on a team against a Qsync of 0.H.? No, I stay and fight and try my hardest to get on their level. That isn't often the case in FW as you get no ISK reward and the LP payouts for losing are sub-optimal unless you're using boosters or have a very high rank. Since you don't get standings for losing... You're likely not going to increase in rank after consistent losses. In Pubs, yes, absolutely you will get ISK - but not as much as winning it seems and players shouldn't be expected to escalate when they're going ISK negative in doing so. This creates a negative feedback loop in which the losing team, which dies more often, will either have to escalate the gear used and pay out of pocket for it in the end... or start running BPO's and lower their performance. Whereas the winning team can freely escalate (dying less) to high end gear without worrying too much about going ISK negative. They -also- get access to more orbitals due to the higher WP gains from their winning. Aeon Amadi for CPM 2 Design A SKIN 2
mr musturd Nos Nothi 788	Posted - 2015.08.04 15:49:00 - [6] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Alcina Nektaria wrote: Your points are well made. However, staying in the match to fight can prove to be fun. I know I've been in terribly losing matches before, but I stayed just for the lols of killing people. What few realize is that people follow patterns. If you figure out a way to counter those patterns in the long run it will make you a better player. Besides, there is nothing wrong with switching to an Apex or other free suit and just going to town. Go take a dropship somewhere high and start blasting out installations with AV fits or focus on enemy vehicles. Regardless, you are losing out on SP and ISK to be gained by leaving the battle. Do I care when I get put on a team against a Qsync of 0.H.? No, I stay and fight and try my hardest to get on their level. That isn't often the case in FW as you get no ISK reward and the LP payouts for losing are sub-optimal unless you're using boosters or have a very high rank. Since you don't get standings for losing... You're likely not going to increase in rank after consistent losses. In Pubs, yes, absolutely you will get ISK - but not as much as winning it seems and players shouldn't be expected to escalate when they're going ISK negative in doing so. This creates a negative feedback loop in which the losing team, which dies more often, will either have to escalate the gear used and pay out of pocket for it in the end... or start running BPO's and lower their performance. Whereas the winning team can freely escalate (dying less) to high end gear without worrying too much about going ISK negative. They -also- get access to more orbitals due to the higher WP gains from their winning. Your right aeon but minus 2pts for using the words "negative feedback"
Count- -Crotchula Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 221	Posted - 2015.08.04 15:58:00 - [7] - Quote Dusters Blog wrote: as the game continues its slow, grueling death we'll point out we addressed this years ago http://dustmercs.blogspot.com/2013/01/use-isk-as-motivator.html we'll now enjoy a quick second of 'i told u so' I'm just reading this now and WOW, once again CCP turn a blind eye to ANYTHING useful said by ANYONE and continue to let the game fester.
Mortishai Belmont G.L.O.R.Y 893	Posted - 2015.08.04 16:03:00 - [8] - Quote Only pansies leave battles because they're outnumbered, redlined, or it's an "Up hill" battle. The C.EO. of G.L.O.R.Y, (~..)~ Now on Youtube ~(..~)
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 11	Posted - 2015.08.04 16:04:00 - [9] - Quote mr musturd wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Alcina Nektaria wrote: Your points are well made. However, staying in the match to fight can prove to be fun. I know I've been in terribly losing matches before, but I stayed just for the lols of killing people. What few realize is that people follow patterns. If you figure out a way to counter those patterns in the long run it will make you a better player. Besides, there is nothing wrong with switching to an Apex or other free suit and just going to town. Go take a dropship somewhere high and start blasting out installations with AV fits or focus on enemy vehicles. Regardless, you are losing out on SP and ISK to be gained by leaving the battle. Do I care when I get put on a team against a Qsync of 0.H.? No, I stay and fight and try my hardest to get on their level. That isn't often the case in FW as you get no ISK reward and the LP payouts for losing are sub-optimal unless you're using boosters or have a very high rank. Since you don't get standings for losing... You're likely not going to increase in rank after consistent losses. In Pubs, yes, absolutely you will get ISK - but not as much as winning it seems and players shouldn't be expected to escalate when they're going ISK negative in doing so. This creates a negative feedback loop in which the losing team, which dies more often, will either have to escalate the gear used and pay out of pocket for it in the end... or start running BPO's and lower their performance. Whereas the winning team can freely escalate (dying less) to high end gear without worrying too much about going ISK negative. They -also- get access to more orbitals due to the higher WP gains from their winning. Your right aeon but minus 2pts for using the words "negative feedback" Contrary Reaction. Aeon Amadi for CPM 2 Design A SKIN 2
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 11	Posted - 2015.08.04 16:05:00 - [10] - Quote Mortishai Belmont wrote: Only pansies leave battles because they're outnumbered, redlined, or it's an "Up hill" battle. And here, ladies and gentlemen, is an excellent example of what I was referring to with 'E-Bushido'. Aeon Amadi for CPM 2 Design A SKIN 2

Alcina Nektaria KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 96	Posted - 2015.08.04 16:13:00 - [11] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Alcina Nektaria wrote: Your points are well made. However, staying in the match to fight can prove to be fun. I know I've been in terribly losing matches before, but I stayed just for the lols of killing people. What few realize is that people follow patterns. If you figure out a way to counter those patterns in the long run it will make you a better player. Besides, there is nothing wrong with switching to an Apex or other free suit and just going to town. Go take a dropship somewhere high and start blasting out installations with AV fits or focus on enemy vehicles. Regardless, you are losing out on SP and ISK to be gained by leaving the battle. Do I care when I get put on a team against a Qsync of 0.H.? No, I stay and fight and try my hardest to get on their level. That isn't often the case in FW as you get no ISK reward and the LP payouts for losing are sub-optimal unless you're using boosters or have a very high rank. Since you don't get standings for losing... You're likely not going to increase in rank after consistent losses. In Pubs, yes, absolutely you will get ISK - but not as much as winning it seems and players shouldn't be expected to escalate when they're going ISK negative in doing so. This creates a negative feedback loop in which the losing team, which dies more often, will either have to escalate the gear used and pay out of pocket for it in the end... or start running BPO's and lower their performance. Whereas the winning team can freely escalate (dying less) to high end gear without worrying too much about going ISK negative. They -also- get access to more orbitals due to the higher WP gains from their winning. Higher WP isn't always the case. You could actually just pull out a rep tool or keep dropping uplinks and gain massive amounts of wp. Yeah that falls under the taboo of "WP Farming" but it's a necessary case where it is acceptable. WP are also the reason squadding up is adventageous, you have the potential to make a ton of WP to drop them obs. Or just find a factional Eve Pilot to drop OBs for you. There's many ways to be productive instead of leaving a battle. And you still get ISK payout for factionals even if you lose. Winning team gets less isk if they don't lose as many suits. You still get, what 20% of your losses? That still applies to using BPOs and cheap suits I believe. *KEQ Diplomat* Gallente Loyalist ... Come at me bro. A grenade to the head will most certainly get you dead.
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 1	Posted - 2015.08.04 16:24:00 - [12] - Quote Staying in a pub match measn much a ISk higer payout. Fighting a FW match to the bitter end and losing by one tick gives you the same LP payout as being redlined from start to finish. The attitude you are describing is one of a player that refuses to play unless everything is aligned in his favor. - Inferior enemies - Objectives going my way - We outnumber them - Superior blueberries. If anyone of these is against him, he quits. And good riddance. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me. "I sometimes wonder why I share stuff "- CCP Rattati vote Tesfa for CPM2
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 11	Posted - 2015.08.04 16:25:00 - [13] - Quote Alcina Nektaria wrote: Higher WP isn't always the case. You could actually just pull out a rep tool or keep dropping uplinks and gain massive amounts of wp. Yeah that falls under the taboo of "WP Farming" but it's a necessary case where it is acceptable. WP are also the reason squadding up is adventageous, you have the potential to make a ton of WP to drop them obs. Or just find a factional Eve Pilot to drop OBs for you. There's many ways to be productive instead of leaving a battle. And you still get ISK payout for factionals even if you lose. Winning team gets less isk if they don't lose as many suits. You still get, what 20% of your losses? That still applies to using BPOs and cheap suits I believe. O.o; no, you don't get ISK payout for FW. You get ISK reimbursement of your losses and if we're seriously advocating BPOs and cheap-fits in what is supposed to be a more competitive game mode, we're doing something seriously wrong. Again, what is the incentive to run better gear and go for that win if you're starkly losing? There isn't any, you just downgrade cheaper and cheaper to save ISK and decrease your own performance while the enemy increases their's. This is one of those times I'm seriously considering the plausibility of making Squad-less game modes and meta-level lockouts as a fallback to this sort of behavior. Which is, in and of itself, contrary to the New Eden theme. Aeon Amadi for CPM 2 Design A SKIN 2
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 11	Posted - 2015.08.04 16:26:00 - [14] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: Staying in a pub match measn much a ISk higer payout. Fighting a FW match to the bitter end and losing by one tick gives you the same LP payout as being redlined from start to finish. The attitude you are describing is one of a player that refuses to play unless everything is aligned in his favor. - Inferior enemies - Objectives going my way - We outnumber them - Superior blueberries. If anyone of these is against him, he quits. And good riddance. And who is he impressing when he stays and loses anyhow..? Aeon Amadi for CPM 2 Design A SKIN 2
Count- -Crotchula Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 221	Posted - 2015.08.04 16:27:00 - [15] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Mortishai Belmont wrote: Only pansies leave battles because they're outnumbered, redlined, or it's an "Up hill" battle. And here, ladies and gentlemen, is an excellent example of what I was referring to with 'E-Bushido'. yup, this wanker thinks that everyone has something to prove or some values to uphold and that you should spend your free time how somebody else expects you to spend your free time!
General Mosquito Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 228	Posted - 2015.08.04 16:29:00 - [16] - Quote Count- -Crotchula wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Mortishai Belmont wrote: Only pansies leave battles because they're outnumbered, redlined, or it's an "Up hill" battle. And here, ladies and gentlemen, is an excellent example of what I was referring to with 'E-Bushido'. yup, this wanker thinks that everyone has something to prove or some values to uphold and that you should spend your free time how somebody else expects you to spend your free time! Says the guy who calls people playing to win cowards. Just for some perspective. The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
Count- -Crotchula Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 221	Posted - 2015.08.04 16:29:00 - [17] - Quote Mortishai Belmont wrote: Only pansies leave battles because they're outnumbered, redlined, or it's an "Up hill" battle. yeh because being redlined by full proto teams hiding behind hills repping each other and subsequently warbarge striking your spawn is SOOOO MUCH FUN and we've all got so much to prove to random people on the internet. get off your high horse and take your head out of your ass then maybe you wouldn't talk so much **! I don't have a great deal of time to play games and I'll be DAMNED if I'm going to sit in the ***** redline and play against jobless neckbeards who have all the time in the world to play DUST. it's called using your time wisely, you're not proving anything to anyone by wasting your time. If YOUR idea of a good game is being stuck in the redline then more power to you, play DUST however you like but don't impose it on other people.
Count- -Crotchula Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 221	Posted - 2015.08.04 16:32:00 - [18] - Quote General Mosquito wrote: Count- -Crotchula wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Mortishai Belmont wrote: Only pansies leave battles because they're outnumbered, redlined, or it's an "Up hill" battle. And here, ladies and gentlemen, is an excellent example of what I was referring to with 'E-Bushido'. yup, this wanker thinks that everyone has something to prove or some values to uphold and that you should spend your free time how somebody else expects you to spend your free time! Says the guy who calls people playing to win cowards. Just for some perspective. I could explain how you're wrong but I'd be wasting my time. I'll just sit back, laugh and revel in the fact that you're mentally challenged.
General Mosquito Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 228	Posted - 2015.08.04 16:33:00 - [19] - Quote Count- -Crotchula wrote: I could explain how you're wrong but I'd be wasting my time. Please try to explain how I am wrong. I have your posts quoted, so please try and dispute my statement. The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
Dust User Horizons' Edge No Context 2	Posted - 2015.08.04 16:34:00 - [20] - Quote Another example of the pubstar alliance mentality. When you enter the polling booth make sure you ask yourself if this is the kind of representation you're looking for. Personally, I want to be represented by someone with high regard for honor and dignity. Vote Dust User for CPM 2.

General Mosquito Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 230	Posted - 2015.08.04 16:47:00 - [21] - Quote Dust User wrote: Personally, I want to be represented by someone with high regard for honor and dignity. I'd rather have someone who understands high level play, which someone who says "Oh thats just cheap, only scrubs play that way" is not capable of understanding. The Attorney General - Mr. Hybrid Vayu
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 11	Posted - 2015.08.04 16:48:00 - [22] - Quote Dust User wrote: Another example of the pubstar alliance mentality. When you enter the polling booth make sure you ask yourself if this is the kind of representation you're looking for. Personally, I want to be represented by someone with high regard for honor and dignity. Vote Dust User for CPM 2. Still waiting on you to elaborate where all this honor and dignity comes from apart from baseless claims. I mean, everyone knows that if you want to be represented by someone with honor and dignity you need to vote for me. An honorable man will explain his position. See how easy that claim is to make? Hell, I'd reckon I'm the most honorable out of all the candidates. Aeon Amadi for CPM 2 Design A SKIN 2
CUSE TOWN333 0uter.Heaven 2	Posted - 2015.08.04 16:58:00 - [23] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Dust User wrote: Another example of the pubstar alliance mentality. When you enter the polling booth make sure you ask yourself if this is the kind of representation you're looking for. Personally, I want to be represented by someone with high regard for honor and dignity. Vote Dust User for CPM 2. Still waiting on you to elaborate where all this honor and dignity comes from apart from baseless claims. I mean, everyone knows that if you want to be represented by someone with honor and dignity you need to vote for me. An honorable man will explain his position. See how easy that claim is to make? Hell, I'd reckon I'm the most honorable out of all the candidates. your talk about honor and just made a whole thread about leaveing battle. CBM
Dust User Horizons' Edge No Context 2	Posted - 2015.08.04 16:58:00 - [24] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Dust User wrote: Another example of the pubstar alliance mentality. When you enter the polling booth make sure you ask yourself if this is the kind of representation you're looking for. Personally, I want to be represented by someone with high regard for honor and dignity. Vote Dust User for CPM 2. Still waiting on you to elaborate where all this honor and dignity comes from apart from baseless claims. I mean, everyone knows that if you want to be represented by someone with honor and dignity you need to vote for me. An honorable man will explain his position. See how easy that claim is to make? Hell, I'd reckon I'm the most honorable out of all the candidates. My record speaks for itself. No need to elaborate on a matter that has been on public display for all to see. Usher in a new age of honor and vote Dust User.
howard sanchez Vader's-Fist 1	Posted - 2015.08.04 17:42:00 - [25] - Quote Good Post Aeon, Your valuation process of deciding whether to stay in a match or not is very similar to my own - and I expect, a lot of other players. One small point I will make (to see if anyone agrees) is that, when I fight in a pub on the underdog team (especially if outnumbered and outgeared) I stand to gain a lot more isk. Because payouts are based on the damage caused to the enemy's equipment. And because that payout pool is split between the combatants that finish the match - staying and pushing hard when heavily outnumbered and outgeared can actually be profitable.... That's my experience. Anyone else get that?
Cesar Geronimo DUST University Ivy League 41	Posted - 2015.08.04 17:53:00 - [26] - Quote As long as I believe I can get my magical 150 WP before the rounds ends, I usually play...
DeadlyAztec11 8	Posted - 2015.08.04 18:09:00 - [27] - Quote Everyone wants a fair match. Though few are willing to stick around when they are losing. Those people that leave contribute to the problem. So if you leave matches because you don't think they are worth it, then you are part of the problem and will only put someone else in your position. Because the matchmaker places connection as more important than statistics it means that often matches will be unbalanced. It is impossible to better the matchmaker because there are not enough people for it to matter. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
Middas Betancore 659	Posted - 2015.08.04 18:10:00 - [28] - Quote This is something I've been musing over for a few weeks and it's definitely a tough one I'm of the e-bushido camp, believing in playing hard mode and never running from a fight That said I still talk with and sympathise with many players who like you believe that some matches just aren't worth playing I find this hard to compute firstly as this is a competitive wargame in which there are winners and losers, if you spend all day looking for a fair fight then maybe new Eden or multiplayer at all isn't the place for you But that's not really attacking the problem I've mostly been thinking of this in relation to FW, ie if one faction is ruining the others on a regular basis what will make people want to fight for the losing faction The main idea I've been toying with is performance bonuses for losing players, some way of recognising that they at least stuck it out and tried Perhaps some equation relating to distance travelled/warpoints per min/kdr, dangerously open to farming perhaps. Perhaps also relating it to the rest of the losing team and even perhaps the winning team. "did u outscore almost everyone else in the match even though u lost?! Here have a cookie" Isk Destroyed/efficiency would be a good metric also, so if u lose but trash a load I proto players, bonus for u I think there is a balance to be found between materially Rewarding winners and also Rewarding losers who can be seen to ar least try hard Myself I'm of the htfu school, but I'm still interested in pursuing a better format of rewards for winners an losers Onnamon 4-State Protectorate Logistics Support State Task Force: Caldari Fw Channel CPM2 Candidate
Mobius Wyvern Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 6	Posted - 2015.08.04 18:10:00 - [29] - Quote Count- -Crotchula wrote: Dusters Blog wrote: as the game continues its slow, grueling death we'll point out we addressed this years ago http://dustmercs.blogspot.com/2013/01/use-isk-as-motivator.html we'll now enjoy a quick second of 'i told u so' I'm just reading this now and WOW, once again CCP turn a blind eye to ANYTHING useful said by ANYONE and continue to let the game fester. At some points during the Closed Beta it honestly seemed like the old team found our suggestions offensive, like we thought we could tell them what to do. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1	Posted - 2015.08.04 18:20:00 - [30] - Quote The frustration of dealing with uncooperative/stupid allies is the main thing. Players want to go toe-to-toe with equally matched foes,not be crushed underfoot by forces outside their control. So they're like "i wanted fun,i never agreed to have a whole team of noobs i'm outta here." -or- "I wanted a challenge,not to deal with being crippled by my own wallet AND team at the same time." (vs Pro) My suggestion? Maybe CCP should take one of the game mode(s) and label it under "training". In this mode 0 isk is gained,and 0 isk is lost (fittings never decrease). Yet players can still earn SP at the normal rate. And the modes not under "training" could be "live combat". Isk can be lost and gained. But SP rewarded is higher than "training". This way casuals will never have to suffer losses to try-hards unless they're willing. After these changes,penalties can be added to "live combat" to prevent leaving. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.



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