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Vyuru
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
215
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Posted - 2015.08.05 17:25:00 -
[61] - Quote
Tossing in my 2 ISk.
I'm on both sides here.
There have been plenty of games I have fought to the bitter end, there have been plenty of games where I joined late, and I can point to my contribution as the reason we turned the match around. People are right, you can turn around a match last minute, and I know exactly what the MCC armor point is where we can turn it around and beat an almost full health enemy MCC if we can keep the point. And I've done it plenty of times. It does require a team working together (or mostly together) though.
However there are also other times where no matter what I do, my team refuses to work as a team, push for an objective, and get slaughtered en masse.
For example, I had a Domination match not long ago, 11 vs 14 in the enemy team's favor. Myself and 5 other people went dashing for the objective, the rest of my team took up sniping positions of all things in a map that did not favor sniping (indoor objective, and lots of indoor action) 3 of my team mates peeled off to hack useless turrets and ignored CRU's. Myself and the other 3 people hacked and briefly held the objective against a full 14 man team with no help from the rest of the team. Once they saw what my team was like, the enemy team switched to proto gear and redlined 'em, while leaving 5-8 people to guard the objective.
Even if the rest of the team had followed in Heavy's and arrived late, we could have kept that point. The enemy team was not that good frankly. No one spawned in on our uplinks. We were entrenched first and we could have held that objective. As it was, we brought the enemy MCC's shields to half before we were overrun.
I was the ONLY one who tried to sneak past and hack the objective, sneak uplinks, hack other things, etc. Not a fun match in any way shape or form.
These matches are not an every day occurance, but they are not infrequent either. You can normally see some common signs that what you are about to get into is one of those one sided fights.
Pretty much boils down to, if my team is going to try, I'll stick around and fight with them. If my team is going to mess around and not even try to hack the first point next to our redline? Not sticking around unless I want to cause havoc and mayhem for the opposing team. Which sometimes I feel like, sometimes I don't.
And frankly, why should I be punished for not wanting to waste MY isk and MY K/D ratio for people who are basically AWOXing? That is really how I view it. |
PARKOUR PRACTIONER
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
3
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Posted - 2015.08.05 17:54:00 -
[62] - Quote
I see interesting points from both sides, so im going to state my opinion on it. I don't have a solution for it just my humble but shamelessly awesome opinion.
I dont personally like the attitude of its not going my way so why waste my time, but i think i understand a part of it, the honor fight til the death attitude is more my thing. There's a lack from the fight to the deathers of playing it safe. Sometimes its more reasonable and tactical to let it be instead of rushing into it. But, i view the its a waste of timers as that guy that no one likes.
There's a serious lack of the hell with it just go for it a knowing when its actually safe to just let it go. You know what, this fight, too difficult not my style im leaving irritats me. But your not going to get any better without a challenge, people never leaving are not going to know when to stop until stopped.
Either self-preservation or no regard for the safety of yourselves or others. Needs more suggestions instead of demeaning in the greatest.
Sil4ntChaozz
You don't need to follow the rules of the game you just need to keep breaking it until it works-JSE
xD
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Cesar Geronimo
Dust University
Ivy League
44
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Posted - 2015.08.05 19:05:00 -
[63] - Quote
Vyuru wrote:
Pretty much boils down to, if my team is going to try, I'll stick around and fight with them. If my team is going to mess around and not even try to hack the first point next to our redline? Not sticking around unless I want to cause havoc and mayhem for the opposing team. Which sometimes I feel like, sometimes I don't.
+1000 I learned long ago to save my sanity and just reciprocate the efforts of random teammates... If they're sniping or screwing around in the back, I slap on the starter militia suits and do the same... If they're playing hard and aggressive regardless of score, then I play my best...(Well, they also have to be playing with at least 10% intelligence, and not be that guy trying to kill tanks with an AR)...If someone gets on mic and starts coordinating, I do the same...
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Paulus Phen502
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
41
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Posted - 2015.08.05 19:34:00 -
[64] - Quote
As someone who has had 15 FW bpos and earned a lot running solo(no not all of course) this is a very interesting topic. FW for me seems to be the one game mode where if my side gets 5 capped early I no longer want to play the match all the time. And seeing a full q on the otherside before the fight doesn't feel great either. BUT on the other hand much can be gained by facing these types of adversity. As a bpo collector though if the match appears to be unwinnable I do find sometimes I just move on cause getting stomped for 20 minutes for 200 lp just doesn't seem worth it(usually). #honor is right about the importance of manning up and just having a true never say die mentallity that is sorely missing from so many players and maybe even more PC corp or corps in general. I guess a strategic defeat like folding in a hand of cards so you can get to the next better deal isn't always bad either but I wouldn't want it to be something we praise either. And I will say I think the CPM could use someone with DUST USERs mentality, I doubt he would be afraid to confront the devs who can't even get victory screens to work. More of the canidates need to consider that maybe the worst thing they could do is go in and try and be buddies when many of the people playing are actively and agressively in disagreement with CCP even though they continue to play and even enjoy the game at times.
"There's no stoppin' what can't be stopped, no killin' what can't be killed," King Willie Predator II.
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Reign Omega
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
1
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Posted - 2015.08.05 19:42:00 -
[65] - Quote
There shouldn't be any change to incentives for pubs, after all...theyre pubs. Fw, there needs to be a standings increase and payout increase for losses, maybe only if you fight for the faction you pledge yourself to. Right now, even more so than before this game is harsh on solo players, hell its even harsh on squads with all the queue synchronization going on, but that's the infrastructure of the game, and people want to play with associates, and to win.
(Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!! The Incursions are back... and they're golden baby!
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lee corwood
TRAILS AND TRIBULATIONS
No Context
1
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Posted - 2015.08.05 20:42:00 -
[66] - Quote
Just my perspective here. I'm a pretty horribad player but there's generally only a few times I've left battle:
- when I have to leave in real life
- when my corp/alliance calls on me
- when I DC or the game glitched me and I accidently hit leave game instead of suicide 
For the most part, if my team is doing really badly, I try to sneaky scout around and just hack something. Anything. If I can't, I just try to be somewhat annoying. Hell, if my team is doing this badly and I get killed that much, at least I'm helping the game to end faster 
That being said, I have to disagree with the statement that you can't 'teach' those players you can't communicate with. When all objectives are taken and no links are present, I spend most of my time, if I can manage, laying out as many links as I can. Sometimes, I'll pass a group of blueberries that see me as someone charging. And they follow. And if you know me and my gun game, you know I shouldn't be leading the charge on anything.
But my running towards an objective unintentionally pushed them to clearing the way for an objective, even if it's the only one we end up taking and keeping the whole match. Because by themselves, they only know their experience of rushing in and dying immediately. But one saw me and said, I'll follow that one. The other one said, looks like we're trying something. And it builds.
Even if we still lose the match, it's things like that to give newer players or even solo players a purpose to each game and more importantly a taste of what teamwork is supposed to look like. The next time, they might just lead the charge themselves because we just proved it worked. That only makes better players and thus better candidates for corps.
Now, I completely understand the frustration point of having a team that refuses to move though. Especially whole squads that resort to shooting each other and nibbling little points off each other with reloading at each other's nanohives. No one likes those games.
But you're making a blanket statement that EVERY game you leave is like this. That EVERY game couldn't possibly be turned around. That your leaving because they couldn't have learned anything. That might just be misinterpretation but you're speaking to it as if that's the case and your statements interpret to say "I don't want to play, I want to win".
Knights of Ender Director
Logi 4 Life | Youtube Vids
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Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe.
RUST415
2
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Posted - 2015.08.05 21:01:00 -
[67] - Quote
Reign Omega wrote:There shouldn't be any change to incentives for pubs, after all...theyre pubs. Fw, there needs to be a standings increase and payout increase for losses, maybe only if you fight for the faction you pledge yourself to. Right now, even more so than before this game is harsh on solo players, hell its even harsh on squads with all the queue synchronization going on, but that's the infrastructure of the game, and people want to play with associates, and to win.
The problem with increasing FW payouts for loosing is that you're also creating an incentive for people to afk battles then. Think about it if you could afk your way to an apex suit which you then sell or use it would be pretty tempting to do so.
I'd be in favor of increasing all FW payouts provided there is a minimum wp earned to receive payouts or salvage. Previously I have proposed 400wp for this minimum which others have called too high. Regardless of the numbers though something like this should accompany any payout increase.
Now with more evil.
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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop
Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2015.08.06 03:01:00 -
[68] - Quote
The finger-pointing and recriminations going back and forth itt are pointless. Remind anybody of the old AFK arguments?
The real point here is that CCP's game design on this issue sucks on multiple levels, and has for a long time. Players going at each other over CCP's dropped balls is like serfs tearing each other apart for a king who couldn't give two *****.
Before we write each other off as worthless, recall that it was the AFKers who eventually got CCP to do something, though the solution(s) were half-assed(originally laughable, or 'rubber-band proof' in CCPspeak) and piecemeal.
I'm with Aeon on this: from a gameplay perspective, especially for peeps who have busy lives outside of Dust, it sucks - when a player has only an hour at the end of the day to sit down and try to get some Dust time in, the last thing they need is three crappy matches owing to the multiple factors Aeon listed. After a couple days of that what's the motivation for that player to try and play the next day?
There's a simple exercise that answers several needs in Dust: sit down and assume the identity of a merc recruiter for public contracts. Remember that(from the lore) these recruiter agents are like brokers: they're not working for any particular npc EVE Corp, but rather hiring out of a merc 'union hall'.
Now write a contract with a set of perqs/punishments that gets good results out of mercs: wins, performance, reliability, teamwork.
Reward the mercs with a solid work ethic, loosen up some of the restrictions/punishments, maybe give them a 'recruiter bonus' %age to daily mission rewards.
A real contract system will take us a long way towards fixing Dust, written properly we can eventually leverage it into a primary tool for player-generated content.
PSN: RationalSpark
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