DUST Search - Nerf impenetrable Madrugars already

True Adamance wrote:

Mobius Wyvern wrote:

Daddrobit wrote:

maybe deadcatz wrote:

hails8n wrote:

Theres nothing like having a Madrigar survive your 3 boundless packed res, then your 3 Lai Dai packed nades, then your wyrikomi swarms consecutively and still have 75% armor, then 100% a second later. A pack of them together is HELL .

You ever think of the price and sp you have to invest to get a tank like that? A SH!T TON. Just get 3 dudes with swarms and a PLC or two and tanker dies

ISK should never buy invulnerability.

<--- Made numerous threads about separate driver and gunner seats, and vehicle capacitors for modules that can be drained by infantry-carried grenades.

Was shouted down every time for "forcing teamplay".

Again we've had this discussion and the issue is not about 'forcing team play' as you put it but instead taking a role that can be accessible to an individual player and telling them they are not allowed to play that role unless they can guarantee themselves something they know is online or someone they can trust to achieve the role well.

Otherwise you consign them to blue berry gunners and you know as well as anyone how awful that it.

More to the point it seems an unnecessary step when other games that arguably portray tanks better than Dust can achieve a state in which tanks can be operated by solo players in an accessible manner, with a fair degree of potency, and can be supplemented by an additional anti infantry gunner as opposed forced to divide the enjoyable roles of being a tanker between two individuals.

HAV can achieve a level of team play without having to divide the driver and main gunner roles however for a long time they have been treated by players, led on by CCP, to believe that tanks are primarily anti-infantry assault assets when they should not be.

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Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 11	Posted - 2015.07.16 18:53:00 - [151] - Quote Heimdallr69 wrote: I run a mlt sica rail, 2 hardners and a rep for those that do get into my armor..I tend to be lazy when in tank =ƒÿü 3 av nades will blow up my tank, it happens a lot The guy who got me was running a double hardened maddie with a prototype blaster. This happened ~2 months back. Thought for sure it was you. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Heimdallr69 Negative-Feedback. 6	Posted - 2015.07.16 19:25:00 - [152] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Heimdallr69 wrote: I run a mlt sica rail, 2 hardners and a rep for those that do get into my armor..I tend to be lazy when in tank =ƒÿü 3 av nades will blow up my tank, it happens a lot The guy who got me was running a double hardened maddie with what I recall being a prototype blaster. This happened ~2 months back. Thought for sure it was you. Edit: I stand corrected. This did happen two months ago, but the pilot was Clon Toxin. Not Heim. My mistake. Yeah when we got a respec like almost 1-2 years ago I left tanks for good..kept getting nerfed and was a complete waste of sp and ISK Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro püépü¬püƒpü»tºüpü«pâèpââpâêpéÆsÉ+püäpü+püÖ
Devadander Woodgrain Atari 362	Posted - 2015.07.16 19:57:00 - [153] - Quote PLC is shield AV at best.... Even in my gunni, only a kubo makes me care a little. Edit: std gunni at that. You are, in fact, doing it wrong. Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
Shadow Player Shadow Hitmen 115	Posted - 2015.07.16 20:14:00 - [154] - Quote Madrugar is hell on wheels without nerf. If you have 4x armor hardeners you are unstopable If you want to be a TRUE HITMAN, join Shadow Hitmen!!!
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 11	Posted - 2015.07.16 20:22:00 - [155] - Quote Devadander wrote: You are, in fact, doing it wrong. Obviously. But had that tank been limited to one hardener, which would be better for balance, things might have gone differently. Right? Right. I've since found Forge Guns to be far more effective than Pro5 Proto Swarms, Pro5 Plasma Cannon, Lai Dais, or any combination thereof. Like I said before, I kill tanks often. But doesn't mean that madrugars are balanced. Fairly confident that they aren't, and it won't come as a surprise if/when they get nerfed. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Devadander Woodgrain Atari 362	Posted - 2015.07.16 20:34:00 - [156] - Quote I'll step OOC here and actually be helpful. As a tanker, my fears, from not scary to pure terror incarnate, are as follows: Nova knives - PLC - dropships - nades - remotes - other tanks - swarms - proxies - forge - unmanned rail installations True tankers see that last one and be like /nod. Proxies are only so high because of rarity, these days. Swarms are high because three guys with std swarms can put down a gv0. If I want to pop a tank, a good one, I bring a forge. If you are dedicated AV, you have more than adv and a few reload levels. Nobody is complaining about MLT here. We're talking about PRO hav. MLT AV can down my STD gunni if I make one tiny mistake. It's all perspective, a mk0 ass with a gk0 scout buddy go 44/4 against people with lower skills; working as intended. Vehicle drivers want epic vehicle battles, and just get waves of unprepared infantry; its game breaking... Bring an alldins for krins sake! Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.07.16 20:47:00 - [157] - Quote Devadander wrote: . Bring an alldins for krins sake! as you wish. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
hails8n DEATH BY DESTRUCTION 363	Posted - 2015.07.17 02:21:00 - [158] - Quote Bump Get some life in your hands.
General Mosquito Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 121	Posted - 2015.07.17 03:06:00 - [159] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Had several million SP to spend a couple months back; thought about skilling into a Missile Gunnlogi. Something handy to thin the numbers of those oh-so-common blaster tanks; a go-to response for when the other side is running 2-3 tanks at a time. Was advised by a buddy tanker that it'd be an unwise investment, with Blaster Madrugars being what they are. Found it peculiar that the most durable HAV on the field also happens to be the very best AI option and is all the while sufficiently competent in its presumed AV role to hold its own against even a Missile Gunnlogi. No wonder it's so common. TL;DR: Will get around to skilling into HAVs, but not until they're better balanced. Of course you would ignore the offer to prove yourself right. I guess me laughing at you while you die to a single AV guy would be too much for your pride. Missile Gunnloggis shred Madrugars well enough, but they have critical weaknesses, and as such will always remain less used unless they are given much stronger buffs than any infantry player would want. Sure you can build a gank Gunnloggi that will hurt a Madrugar, but double hardened you will still have to reload, and that means surviving the return damage, which they cannot do, or attack from further range, which they cannot do. Add in that because of the turret depression problem, you cannot defend yourself when someone gets within 5 metres. Oh, and an enemy tank that gets below you will require you to completely expose your tank to get shots on it. Tanks will never be balanced between themselves, because the shield tank hull is crap, and even though you can buff around some of its problems, it biggest alleged role is nullified by the fact that it can't depress the gun, and so can't properly fight from high ground, and with a slower top speed and slower practical acceleration it can't actually fight from range either. General Butt Naked - Biomassed The Attorney General - Biomassed when unbanned Only 9 more alts to go.
General Mosquito Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 121	Posted - 2015.07.17 03:09:00 - [160] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Found it peculiar that the most durable HAV on the field also happens to be the very best AI option and is all the while sufficiently competent in its presumed AV role to hold its own against even a Missile Gunnlogi. TL;DR: Will get around to skilling into HAVs, but not until they're better balanced. Its not the most durable, its the only durable HAV. There is a difference, and you would be wise to consider that. General Butt Naked - Biomassed The Attorney General - Biomassed when unbanned Only 9 more alts to go.

General Mosquito Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 121	Posted - 2015.07.17 03:14:00 - [161] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Obviously. But had that tank been limited to one hardener, which would be better for balance, things might have gone differently. Right? Right. I've since found Forge Guns to be far more effective than Pro5 Proto Swarms, Pro5 Plasma Cannon, Lai Dais, or any combination thereof. Like I said before, I kill tanks often. But doesn't mean that madrugars are balanced. Fairly confident that they aren't, and it won't come as a surprise if/when they get nerfed. FG most effective AV? I smell a roof topper. Is that what this is really about, CCP not letting you kill vehicles from rooftops with no risk to yourself? General Butt Naked - Biomassed The Attorney General - Biomassed when unbanned Only 9 more alts to go.
Squagga Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 935	Posted - 2015.07.17 03:33:00 - [162] - Quote First of all. Tankers are bitches. Second of all it's really not impossible to take down tanks. It's just expensive, and as usual, annoying to get shot in the back. You just gotta be smarter than the tanker Shields, the silent killer.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 20	Posted - 2015.07.17 04:08:00 - [163] - Quote Squagga wrote: First of all. Tankers are bitches. Second of all it's really not impossible to take down tanks. It's just expensive, and as usual, annoying to get shot in the back. You just gotta be smarter than the tanker Only met one of you who can throw a good roundhouse worth a damn and he was a bloody halfbreed. Learn to brawl. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
hails8n DEATH BY DESTRUCTION 363	Posted - 2015.07.17 07:35:00 - [164] - Quote General Mosquito wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Obviously. But had that tank been limited to one hardener, which would be better for balance, things might have gone differently. Right? Right. I've since found Forge Guns to be far more effective than Pro5 Proto Swarms, Pro5 Plasma Cannon, Lai Dais, or any combination thereof. Like I said before, I kill tanks often. But doesn't mean that madrugars are balanced. Fairly confident that they aren't, and it won't come as a surprise if/when they get nerfed. FG most effective AV? I smell a roof topper. Is that what this is really about, CCP not letting you kill vehicles from rooftops with no risk to yourself? Forges were good to me up until the Bandwith idea. How the hell am I supposed to supply myself with ammo if im not chilling by a supply depot? All I need is maybe 8-12 BW to drop a couple nanohives. Get some life in your hands.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 11	Posted - 2015.07.17 10:53:00 - [165] - Quote General Mosquito wrote: Tanks will never be balanced between themselves, because the shield tank hull is crap, and even though you can buff around some of its problems, it biggest alleged role is nullified by the fact that it can't depress the gun, and so can't properly fight from high ground, and with a slower top speed and slower practical acceleration it can't actually fight from range either. Balancing tanks is no different than balancing anything else. If Armor-based Hulls are substantially better than Shield-based Hulls, then buff one or nerf the other. If the latter is favored over the former, and armor hardeners are for some reason sacrosanct, then knock armor HAVs down a notch by nerfing speed/acceleration and regen. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 11	Posted - 2015.07.17 11:32:00 - [166] - Quote General Mosquito wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Obviously. But had that tank been limited to one hardener, which would be better for balance, things might have gone differently. Right? Right. I've since found Forge Guns to be far more effective than Pro5 Proto Swarms, Pro5 Plasma Cannon, Lai Dais, or any combination thereof. Like I said before, I kill tanks often. But doesn't mean that madrugars are balanced. Fairly confident that they aren't, and it won't come as a surprise if/when they get nerfed. FG most effective AV? I smell a roof topper. Is that what this is really about, CCP not letting you kill vehicles from rooftops with no risk to yourself? Unless a tank is inside a socket, Forge Guns are the only form of infantry AV which work reliably. So, yeah, sometime back I got tired of throwing 100k suits at blaster tanks. I'd always get my licks in, but unless the pilot was especially stupid (not uncommon) or inattentive, he'd more often than not kill me before I could deal sufficient damage to pose any real threat, even when I sync'd strikes with allied AV. In the vast majority of cases, running up on an HAV with Nades and/or REs is suicide. PLC and Swarms are little more than an eventual deterrent. Every tanker in this thread who isn't actively licking a window knows that this is true. For awhile, I'd just ignore HAVs, which (sadly) is what I think most tankers expect of infantry: "Let me farm you and leave me alone. My stuff's more expensive than yours, so I'm supposed to go 30/0. If you shoot back at me, you're an idiot and you deserve to die. I'm in a tank." :: eats chips :: Recently, I got aggravated with multiple HAV spam. Thought about skilling into Missile Gunnlogi. Changed my mind because Blaster Maddies are OP. Ended up skilling into a CalSent and maxed out the Forge Gun tree. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.07.17 11:45:00 - [167] - Quote Forge gun is only the most effective if you rooftop camp IMHO. This isn't something I particularly like. The breach is worthless if you don't roof camp and the STD is spotty in utility unless sniping, which annoys me. I actually submitted a idea to restore the old charge meter and use the overheat meter on the bottom right corner to indicate a "safety" that disengages the charge harmlessly after 5 seconds to lower the charge-holding sniper cannon. Dunno if that'll be a thing, but the rooftop thing actually irritates me intensely. It's not something I find fun. I'd rather lose six proto fits fighting vehicles on the ground than go 7/0 rooftop forging. Risk aversion is a foul concept to me. I'd rather get blapped by a rail while trying to approach. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
General Mosquito Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 122	Posted - 2015.07.17 13:00:00 - [168] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Unless a tank is inside a socket, Forge Guns are the only form of infantry AV which work reliably. Well, they further away you stay, the better off the tank is, so you are doing all tankers a service by hanging in the back, so thanks I guess. Adipem Nothi wrote: In the vast majority of cases (unless inside), running up on a blaster HAV with Nades and/or REs is suicide. PLC and Swarms are little more than an eventual deterrent. Every tanker in this thread who isn't actively licking a window knows that this is true. Oh man, I laughed so hard at this. Adipem Nothi wrote: For awhile, I'd just ignore HAVs, which (sadly) is what I think most tankers expect of infantry: "Let me farm you and leave me alone. My stuff's more expensive than yours, so I'm supposed to go 30/0. If you shoot back at me, you're an idiot and you deserve to die. I'm in a tank." :: eats chips :: Wow, I know some people hate tankers, but you seem to have a pathological hatred of vehicle users. No wonder you can only scream nerf and will never admit that a single dropsuit can kill a tank. Adipem Nothi wrote: Recently got aggravated with multiple HAV spam. Thought about skilling into Missile Gunnlogi; changed my mind b/c Blaster Maddies are OP. Ended up skilling into CalSent and maxed out the Forge Gun tree. Missile Maddy beats blaster maddy, tell CCP to buff shield tanks if you want to see them on the field. General Butt Naked - Biomassed The Attorney General - Biomassed when unbanned Only 9 more alts to go.
Mobius Wyvern Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 6	Posted - 2015.07.17 13:04:00 - [169] - Quote Daddrobit wrote: maybe deadcatz wrote: hails8n wrote: Theres nothing like having a Madrigar survive your 3 boundless packed res, then your 3 Lai Dai packed nades, then your wyrikomi swarms consecutively and still have 75% armor, then 100% a second later. A pack of them together is HELL . You ever think of the price and sp you have to invest to get a tank like that? A SH!T TON. Just get 3 dudes with swarms and a PLC or two and tanker dies ISK should never buy invulnerability. <--- Made numerous threads about separate driver and gunner seats, and vehicle capacitors for modules that can be drained by infantry-carried grenades. Was shouted down every time for "forcing teamplay". Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 11	Posted - 2015.07.17 13:05:00 - [170] - Quote General Mosquito wrote: Missile Maddy beats blaster maddy, tell CCP to buff shield tanks if you want to see them on the field. Buff them. I'm a patient guy. If in one build, both flavors of tank are made as OP as perma-hardened Maddies, then in the next build there will be twice the number of good reasons to balance tanks. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)

General Mosquito Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 122	Posted - 2015.07.17 13:07:00 - [171] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: General Mosquito wrote: Missile Maddy beats blaster maddy, tell CCP to buff shield tanks if you want to see them on the field. Buff them. I'm a patient guy. If in one build, both flavors of tank are made as OP as maddies, then in the next there will be twice the number of good reasons to balance tanks. Buff shield tanks wouldn't make them OP because maddies are not OP. Try and keep up. General Butt Naked - Biomassed The Attorney General - Biomassed when unbanned Only 9 more alts to go.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 11	Posted - 2015.07.17 13:11:00 - [172] - Quote General Mosquito wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: General Mosquito wrote: Missile Maddy beats blaster maddy, tell CCP to buff shield tanks if you want to see them on the field. Buff them. I'm a patient guy. If in one build, both flavors of tank are made as OP as maddies, then in the next there will be twice the number of good reasons to balance tanks. Buff shield tanks wouldn't make them OP because maddies are not OP. Try and keep up. Already two steps ahead of you, buddy. Do you think that your ill-formed arguments and/or browbeating demeanor are helping your side of this debate? Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 20	Posted - 2015.07.17 13:13:00 - [173] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: Daddrobit wrote: maybe deadcatz wrote: hails8n wrote: Theres nothing like having a Madrigar survive your 3 boundless packed res, then your 3 Lai Dai packed nades, then your wyrikomi swarms consecutively and still have 75% armor, then 100% a second later. A pack of them together is HELL . You ever think of the price and sp you have to invest to get a tank like that? A SH!T TON. Just get 3 dudes with swarms and a PLC or two and tanker dies ISK should never buy invulnerability. <--- Made numerous threads about separate driver and gunner seats, and vehicle capacitors for modules that can be drained by infantry-carried grenades. Was shouted down every time for "forcing teamplay". Again we've had this discussion and the issue is not about 'forcing team play' as you put it but instead taking a role that can be accessible to an individual player and telling them they are not allowed to play that role unless they can guarantee themselves something they know is online or someone they can trust to achieve the role well. Otherwise you consign them to blue berry gunners and you know as well as anyone how awful that it. More to the point it seems an unnecessary step when other games that arguably portray tanks better than Dust can achieve a state in which tanks can be operated by solo players in an accessible manner, with a fair degree of potency, and can be supplemented by an additional anti infantry gunner as opposed forced to divide the enjoyable roles of being a tanker between two individuals. HAV can achieve a level of team play without having to divide the driver and main gunner roles however for a long time they have been treated by players, led on by CCP, to believe that tanks are primarily anti-infantry assault assets when they should not be. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
General Mosquito Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 122	Posted - 2015.07.17 13:30:00 - [174] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Already two steps ahead of you, buddy. Do you really think that your ill-formed arguments and/or browbeating demeanor are helping your side of this debate? I'm just toying with you at this point. If you wanted to debate, we could, but you refuse to admit basic truths, and as such are not interested in debate. I have been forward and direct in questions, you have deliberately not answered and struck off on tangents. Since I am more than willing to stand up and defend my viewpoint, while you refuse to make any arguments at all beyond nerf all the things, the debate is long over, and you lost. General Butt Naked - Biomassed The Attorney General - Biomassed when unbanned Only 9 more alts to go.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 11	Posted - 2015.07.17 13:32:00 - [175] - Quote General Mosquito wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Already two steps ahead of you, buddy. Do you really think that your ill-formed arguments and/or browbeating demeanor are helping your side of this debate? I'm just toying with you at this point. Please, keep doing what you're doing. Quote: Kill/Spawn Efficiency is what it is, and if hardened maddies are OP they're OP. Colorful excuses and name calling won't affect efficiency data, though both do make the process of problem solving much more entertaining. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Mobius Wyvern Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 6	Posted - 2015.07.17 13:35:00 - [176] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: Daddrobit wrote: maybe deadcatz wrote: hails8n wrote: Theres nothing like having a Madrigar survive your 3 boundless packed res, then your 3 Lai Dai packed nades, then your wyrikomi swarms consecutively and still have 75% armor, then 100% a second later. A pack of them together is HELL . You ever think of the price and sp you have to invest to get a tank like that? A SH!T TON. Just get 3 dudes with swarms and a PLC or two and tanker dies ISK should never buy invulnerability. <--- Made numerous threads about separate driver and gunner seats, and vehicle capacitors for modules that can be drained by infantry-carried grenades. Was shouted down every time for "forcing teamplay". Again we've had this discussion and the issue is not about 'forcing team play' as you put it but instead taking a role that can be accessible to an individual player and telling them they are not allowed to play that role unless they can guarantee themselves something they know is online or someone they can trust to achieve the role well. Otherwise you consign them to blue berry gunners and you know as well as anyone how awful that it. More to the point it seems an unnecessary step when other games that arguably portray tanks better than Dust can achieve a state in which tanks can be operated by solo players in an accessible manner, with a fair degree of potency, and can be supplemented by an additional anti infantry gunner as opposed forced to divide the enjoyable roles of being a tanker between two individuals. HAV can achieve a level of team play without having to divide the driver and main gunner roles however for a long time they have been treated by players, led on by CCP, to believe that tanks are primarily anti-infantry assault assets when they should not be. The point was more that we're still in the box we are because any and all alternate suggestions are shouted down by a vocal minority that want their Skillpoint investment to give them invulnerability. My opposition to single-player tanks more comes from that being a tired old mechanic from virtually every combined-arms shooter, and I'd rather see a single-person heavy vehicle presented in a more unique and fun manner, like a Walker of some kind. In any case, I still believe capacitors would be both a boon for vehicle users, and an important balance factor for infantry. That would mean that you would have to manage your modules continuously to avoid running out of energy, and infantry can neutralize that energy to make you vulnerable until you can recharge enough to put your modules back on. I believe that fits quite well within the "waves of vulnerability" concept, as the only way to let your capacitor recharge would be to withdraw from the fight, thereby giving the infantry some breathing room. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 11	Posted - 2015.07.17 13:41:00 - [177] - Quote General Mosquito wrote: ... the debate is long over, and you lost. Right. Good job. When Rattati comes knocking, you should do exactly what you've done here. Parry his data with your excuses. Wow him with your intellect. Beat him with your brows. You should make a video of PLC + Lai Dais vs parked and empty Madrugar. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Devadander Woodgrain Atari 364	Posted - 2015.07.17 14:11:00 - [178] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: General Mosquito wrote: ... the debate is long over, and you lost. Right. Good job. When Rattati comes knocking, you should do exactly what you've done here. Parry his data with your excuses. Wow him with your intellect. Beat him with those brows. You should probably make a video of PLC + Lai Dais vs a parked and empty Madrugar. For fullest effect, get a buddy with a British accent to narrate the play-by-play: "See how easy it is to solo a HAV? This is why we need double-hardened and perma-hardened Madrugars." You have made zero actual contribution. So yeah. Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
Devadander Woodgrain Atari 364	Posted - 2015.07.17 14:42:00 - [179] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Forge gun is only the most effective if you rooftop camp IMHO. This isn't something I particularly like. The breach is worthless if you don't roof camp and the STD is spotty in utility unless sniping, which annoys me. I actually submitted a idea to restore the old charge meter and use the overheat meter on the bottom right corner to indicate a "safety" that disengages the charge harmlessly after 5 seconds to lower the charge-holding sniper cannon. Dunno if that'll be a thing, but the rooftop thing actually irritates me intensely. It's not something I find fun. I'd rather lose six proto fits fighting vehicles on the ground than go 7/0 rooftop forging. Risk aversion is a foul concept to me. I'd rather get blapped by a rail while trying to approach. Never been much for heights. I stay low for HAV LAV, maybe one story up for a DS. Something about the angle when forging up high I don't like. On the ground I just look at where I would bail to and lead em a hair. Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 1	Posted - 2015.07.17 14:49:00 - [180] - Quote General Mosquito wrote: Simple question, can 3 lai dais and a PLC shot take out a dual rep dual hardener madrugar with its hardeners up? Yes or no? Simple answer: no, the tank will survive. Long answer: Lai Dai Packed does 1563 damage * 0.6 first hardener * 0.656 second hardener * 1.2 explosive profile = 738 damage * 3 = 2214 damage over about a second and a half. Allotek PLC does 1690 damage * 1.1 blaster profile * 1.15 prof five = 2138 - 1200 Maddy shields = 938 / 1.1 to revert blaster profile then * .9 for profile vs armour * 0.6 * 0.656 = 302 damage to armour. 2214 + 302 = 2516 damage to armour, aka not enough to destroy the Madrugar's armour. Plus, the amount of time to throw three AV grenades is roughly 1.5-2 seconds, meaning the Madrugar will repair 275-550 armour in that time frame. So basically, no. Is it close? Sort of. As has been touched upon, the Maddy simply needs to move a small amount to throw off a single grenade and it has no chance of death. I definitely think M+¦bius is on the right track. When the discussion before was centre around sHAVs, I thought the crew style HAV might become a thing. Basically, have the Marduk/Gladius sort of as-is, but have the Madrugar/Gunnlogi as a driver/gunner split. You could then actually justify having amazing resilience because you could require multiple operators for full effect. Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.



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