1) low mu players have a separate queue, there is no "low mu filling" going on
2) what's the alternative to both teams having protosquads and one of them losing? This is a competitive shooter.
3) if your alt is on the same account as your main, you will not go into the academy again, which is where you get your early training.
4) I have player every single fps there is, and there is always a learning curve. Playing COD:AW these days and I go 15/15 like I always do in all shooters, yet there are guys going 50/3 in those games as well. They even have a rating/level of 50 to my new guy with 8. The same exact experience I have in BF3, 4 and Hardline. I have the drive to do better which motivates me. Dust is no different.

The difference between all those other shooters and Dust is the power-based progression.

The only learning curve in Dust 514 is:

Accepting that you will lose the vast majority of the time in a solo environment. Accepting that you will often lose when pit up against coordinated squads in Public Matchmaking.

Understanding Dust as a whole does not take that much effort. Coming to terms with the fact that you will lose for reasons beyond your control (power differences) is a whole other beast entirely. They can see you before you know they're there. They can move faster than you, they can fire more accurately than you, they can do more damage than you, they can reload faster than you, they can jump higher than you... this is what Dust is for a new player.

You could theoretically be the best FPS player in the world, but you get dropped into Dust 514 and you will get beaten senseless even if your positioning is superb and your situational awareness is spot on. Being able to glance at a guy and know that "There is no way in hell I can take him on in a 1v1 or even a 1v3 scenario" is why this game has been (and always will be) fundamentally broken.

It isn't like other shooters. Player skill is secondary to having an optimized fitting or a squad to carry you. You can only do so much as an individual, and all it takes is TWO PEOPLE being in a coordinated party to control an entire 16v16 situation.

Another part of the flaw of Dust 514 is the fact that the development team is full of sadists and masochists that get off on suffering. It took what.... years... for tiericide to happen and even now the gaps in power are more than enough to make new players miserable and to create unbelievable differences in potential based on the limitations of fittings and/or numbers difference.

I'm awful at console first person shooters, but there are people I walk all over because my innate stats dominate theirs. There is no such thing as "handicap" in Dust. It's choosing to increase your suffering for some misguided idea of respect. You don't get "better" at the game by decreasing the power of your fitting, you learn to play the game a different way. In that sense, you ARE playing a different game.

You learn to play as a vulture. Picking and choosing each and every engagement and focusing on the weak or overpowered players. Sounds great in theory, but in practice it's a test on sanity. Boring at the best of times, frustrating at the worst. You're taking advantage of the work of others to compensate for your lack of versatility and output. Who wants to wait for other people to do the work so they can steal the score? Not a lot of people with their head screwed on straight, that's for sure.

so I've been playing on one of my alts just to get a break form the usual routine and I've been noticing that even tho my character has rather low amounts of pretty much everything I am getting put up against proto squads and even whole teams, but then I started to notice the people getting put on my team and what it meant

as I saw who my team mates where and who the enemy was I realized that both of them were pretty high sp players, players that only run in squads of full proto on both sides and that when we won it was due to our sides proto squad doing better then the other side and when we lost it was because our sides squad had given up

ok thats all fine but then I look at my score and I'm not doing any worse then usual but I see that I am placing last more then half the time which is fine its a very low sp char so I don't expect to be able to do too much

what upsets me is that when I think about the people I normally get stuck with on my main are pretty noobish I just thought they were bad players but now looking at it from my alts perspective I see that these players may be getting stuck with "the big kids" because of their low mu scores, this makes me think that there should be a way to keep low mu players out matches that have high mu players as when one of these newer players comes along for a while they will have a hard time fending for themselves

I may be wrong and that may not be how the matchmaking is but it looked like the low mu players were being put in as filler for the higher mu squads running around, on my main I can have a big impact on whether my team wins or loses but on my alt anything I do seems to not have much of an impact other then making a proto player angry that he died to std NK's or a recruit assault rifle

So in all other FPS games, the new players start on equal footing with veterans. I'm gonna go ahead and disagree with that because I sure don't see a lot of the starter weapons in my killfeed.

Second, player skill always wins, gear is secondary. This is hard to accept for many people, but its the truth. Good players can easily outplay prototype lower skill players in starter fits.

1) low mu players have a separate queue, there is no "low mu filling" going on
2) what's the alternative to both teams having protosquads and one of them losing? This is a competitive shooter.
3) if your alt is on the same account as your main, you will not go into the academy again, which is where you get your early training.
4) I have player every single fps there is, and there is always a learning curve. Playing COD:AW these days and I go 15/15 like I always do in all shooters, yet there are guys going 50/3 in those games as well. They even have a rating/level of 50 to my new guy with 8. The same exact experience I have in BF3, 4 and Hardline. I have the drive to do better which motivates me. Dust is no different.

Yes, but the aiming and shooting in those games are way better. You guys have consistently nerfed things into the ground. I feel that the main problem fans are having with your game are aiming, and spawning. I haven't played dust514 lately, but when I do play it seems like the 2 major issues I just mentioned are never fixed. Spawning is horrible in this game, I know you have the same issues in other games but they are no where near worst as dust514. I can choose to smart depoly and it will worp me right where I got killed before with the same players who killed me camping there waiting for free kills, because the location of the spawn will not change. That's why the scores are so lop sided I believe. Any time a score look like 68 to 0 something is wrong, or how about 78 to 0 I seen this 1 quite a few times. Persons can strafe there way out of situations in this game being that it is common. In the shooters you mentioned you can't just move around in circles without getting shot. I just really want to like dust 514, to me it is different that's why I keep coming back. I see the new updates try it and if I don't like it I stop playing until the next one.

In Battlefield and Call of Duty it comes down to player skill and to a someextent what weapon you're using. In Dust 514 is both of those factors but we're also mixing in the variability of power leveled gear.

There is a great desire, especially from members of the community that are pro-tieracide, for that sort of power leveled gear to have even less of an effect on the overall flow of battle. We can all generally agree that an Amarr Assault with an SCR should have every advantage over a Cal Assault with an SCR ( armor tanker with anti-shield weapon against shield tanker with an anti-shield weapon). That advantage gets skewed if said player is using, say, Militia gear and his opponent is using Prototype.

Power levels like that create an artificial inflation of power in the overall balance scheme, hence the moniker, and it dillutes the feeling of preparation, tactics, and player skill. Despite having every advantage the Amarr Assault could still very likely lose simply because the Cal Assault spent more ISK (which is why we run into problems like PC District Locking/Alt Farming). This is especially true for new players who simply don't have the ISK -and- skill benefits to compete.

Progression should not entitle you to such a powerful advantage when it already gives you permanent, passive skill bonuses (+5% armor per level) and active bonuses from Dropsuits (+5% heat build reduction per level). In that context, Tieracide is extremely beneficial. We lose a sense of progression, absolutely, but that sense of progression comes at the cost of the overall balance of power. Players feel gypped out of a win simply because they didn't shell out as much ISK as the other guy ontop of simply not having the longevity bonus of skill application, regardless of tactics and preparation.

I have player every single fps there is

1) low mu players have a separate queue, there is no "low mu filling" going on
2) what's the alternative to both teams having protosquads and one of them losing? This is a competitive shooter.
3) if your alt is on the same account as your main, you will not go into the academy again, which is where you get your early training.
4) I have player every single fps there is, and there is always a learning curve. Playing COD:AW these days and I go 15/15 like I always do in all shooters, yet there are guys going 50/3 in those games as well. They even have a rating/level of 50 to my new guy with 8. The same exact experience I have in BF3, 4 and Hardline. I have the drive to do better which motivates me. Dust is no different.

i admit, i never played tabula rasa or crysis, was tabula rasa even a fps

You actually just proved my point, though... The example you gave shows that the disparity between what will essentially become a Dropsuit with a Standard Power Core versus a Prototype Power Core will be lessened and those that run Standard Power Cores will be more effective as a result, that the advantages would come mostly from skill investment and proper fitting structure rather than simply shelling out ISK.

Asset loss is the biggest difference between Dust and those other games.

Losing video game stuff apparently really, really bothers some people.

You actually just proved my point, though... The example you gave shows that the disparity between what will essentially become a Dropsuit with a Standard Power Core versus a Prototype Power Core will be lessened and those that run Standard Power Cores will be more effective as a result, that the advantages would come mostly from skill investment and proper fitting structure rather than simply shelling out ISK.

Getting ISK in this game is easier than SP, even with the stupid SP cap we have now, so... yeah, skill (SP) investment thats what you're going for? People value ISK more than anything in the game (i dont play enough to value either) that why people with a lot of ISK still run BPOs or lower tier gear, they just want to go ISK + every game. ISK Investment > SP Investment, because the SP doesnt go away, you dont risk losing SP, i never seen anyone rage saying "he has optimzation 5 and i dont!" lol

I still havent seen anyone share a good point on how tiercide is gonna help the game, is like people want to see it happen just beacuse reasons.