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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Aeon Amadi
Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback
11
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Posted - 2015.07.05 12:00:00 -
[1] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:
So in all other FPS games, the new players start on equal footing with veterans. I'm gonna go ahead and disagree with that because I sure don't see a lot of the starter weapons in my killfeed.
Second, player skill always wins, gear is secondary. This is hard to accept for many people, but its the truth. Good players can easily outplay prototype lower skill players in starter fits.
In Battlefield and Call of Duty it comes down to player skill and to a someextent what weapon you're using. In Dust 514 is both of those factors but we're also mixing in the variability of power leveled gear.
There is a great desire, especially from members of the community that are pro-tieracide, for that sort of power leveled gear to have even less of an effect on the overall flow of battle. We can all generally agree that an Amarr Assault with an SCR should have every advantage over a Cal Assault with an SCR ( armor tanker with anti-shield weapon against shield tanker with an anti-shield weapon). That advantage gets skewed if said player is using, say, Militia gear and his opponent is using Prototype.
Power levels like that create an artificial inflation of power in the overall balance scheme, hence the moniker, and it dillutes the feeling of preparation, tactics, and player skill. Despite having every advantage the Amarr Assault could still very likely lose simply because the Cal Assault spent more ISK (which is why we run into problems like PC District Locking/Alt Farming). This is especially true for new players who simply don't have the ISK -and- skill benefits to compete.
Progression should not entitle you to such a powerful advantage when it already gives you permanent, passive skill bonuses (+5% armor per level) and active bonuses from Dropsuits (+5% heat build reduction per level). In that context, Tieracide is extremely beneficial. We lose a sense of progression, absolutely, but that sense of progression comes at the cost of the overall balance of power. Players feel gypped out of a win simply because they didn't shell out as much ISK as the other guy ontop of simply not having the longevity bonus of skill application, regardless of tactics and preparation.
10% of US schools no longer teach Cursive. A decade from now, 10% of the US isn't going to understand all the squiglies.
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Aeon Amadi
Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback
11
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Posted - 2015.07.05 13:52:00 -
[2] - Quote
AndyAndio wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:
So in all other FPS games, the new players start on equal footing with veterans. I'm gonna go ahead and disagree with that because I sure don't see a lot of the starter weapons in my killfeed.
Second, player skill always wins, gear is secondary. This is hard to accept for many people, but its the truth. Good players can easily outplay prototype lower skill players in starter fits.
In Battlefield and Call of Duty it comes down to player skill and to a someextent what weapon you're using. In Dust 514 is both of those factors but we're also mixing in the variability of power leveled gear. There is a great desire, especially from members of the community that are pro-tieracide, for that sort of power leveled gear to have even less of an effect on the overall flow of battle. We can all generally agree that an Amarr Assault with an SCR should have every advantage over a Cal Assault with an SCR ( armor tanker with anti-shield weapon against shield tanker with an anti-shield weapon). That advantage gets skewed if said player is using, say, Militia gear and his opponent is using Prototype. Power levels like that create an artificial inflation of power in the overall balance scheme, hence the moniker, and it dillutes the feeling of preparation, tactics, and player skill. Despite having every advantage the Amarr Assault could still very likely lose simply because the Cal Assault spent more ISK (which is why we run into problems like PC District Locking/Alt Farming). This is especially true for new players who simply don't have the ISK -and- skill benefits to compete. Progression should not entitle you to such a powerful advantage when it already gives you permanent, passive skill bonuses (+5% armor per level) and active bonuses from Dropsuits (+5% heat build reduction per level). In that context, Tieracide is extremely beneficial. We lose a sense of progression, absolutely, but that sense of progression comes at the cost of the overall balance of power. Players feel gypped out of a win simply because they didn't shell out as much ISK as the other guy ontop of simply not having the longevity bonus of skill application, regardless of tactics and preparation. I disagree, tiercide is gonna make players that have tons of SP able to run better ISK efficient fits while remaining deadly. For example i modified my APEX Nomad suit to the point that the differences between that suit and my normal mk0 assault are really minor. Things like .5 less sprint speed, 80 or so less hp. same regen, same equipment, and with proficiency 5 on my CR i dont feel the difference between the basic CR and the Boundless, i ran that suit the first couple of weeks i got it on FW and i was doing great. Also if you run spambush with it, the ISK efficiency is game breaking. Your logic and understanding of progression is not quite right, things like optimization and proficiency need to be reworked also if there's any kind of tiercide happening, but hey, lets break the game even more so no one can have fun
You actually just proved my point, though... The example you gave shows that the disparity between what will essentially become a Dropsuit with a Standard Power Core versus a Prototype Power Core will be lessened and those that run Standard Power Cores will be more effective as a result, that the advantages would come mostly from skill investment and proper fitting structure rather than simply shelling out ISK.
10% of US schools no longer teach Cursive. A decade from now, 10% of the US isn't going to understand all the squiglies.
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Aeon Amadi
Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback
11
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Posted - 2015.07.05 14:17:00 -
[3] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:CCP Rattati wrote: I have player every single fps there is
i admit, i never played tabula rasa or crysis, was tabula rasa even a fps
You've never played Crysis?
Worst. Dev. Ever.
Dude, it is on Steam, I will buy it for you if you play it. It'll revolutionize your life.... Barring of course that your rig can run it optimally. It is still used as a bench mark in some cases, afterall >_>;
10% of US schools no longer teach Cursive. A decade from now, 10% of the US isn't going to understand all the squiglies.
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Aeon Amadi
Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback
11
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Posted - 2015.07.05 14:38:00 -
[4] - Quote
AndyAndio wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:
You actually just proved my point, though... The example you gave shows that the disparity between what will essentially become a Dropsuit with a Standard Power Core versus a Prototype Power Core will be lessened and those that run Standard Power Cores will be more effective as a result, that the advantages would come mostly from skill investment and proper fitting structure rather than simply shelling out ISK.
Getting ISK in this game is easier than SP, even with the stupid SP cap we have now, so... yeah, skill (SP) investment thats what you're going for? People value ISK more than anything in the game (i dont play enough to value either) that why people with a lot of ISK still run BPOs or lower tier gear, they just want to go ISK + every game. ISK Investment > SP Investment, because the SP doesnt go away, you dont risk losing SP, i never seen anyone rage saying "he has optimzation 5 and i dont!" lol I still havent seen anyone share a good point on how tiercide is gonna help the game, is like people want to see it happen just beacuse reasons.
This is from a dev blog concerning Eve Online's Tiericide:
"In practice however, after assessing ship slots, EHP, speed, fitting potential and role overlap, we estimate almost half of our currently available ships to have suboptimal use, or are just be plain not worth it at all for pilots looking to min-max.
There are many reasons for that, one is due to the way we balance ships according to the tier system. Indeed, because the tier system dictates raw slots and hit points, it directly impacts ship performance, and thus affects balance. This is most obvious with the tier 1 versus tier 2 battlecruiser comparison, or even with the cruiser class as a whole. Battleship hulls, for having comparatively more base slots to play with, are less affected by this problem than their smaller counterparts.
- That is why we want to remove ship tiers altogether, then refocus our balancing philosophy to be based on role. That means finding common themes, or lines that fit ships with the same purpose, then adjusting slot layout, HP and fittings within each class to support this goal."
From a separate dev blog that further elaborates on this:
"- the old GÇ£TierGÇ¥ system of balancing ships that had mandated weakness from many of EVEGÇÖs ships and endeavoring to make every ship viable and fun to fly in its own right.
The entire premise and point of Tiericide is to balance by roles, not by power-levels or tiers. Hence the name. Fun is having tactical advantages, planning, forethought, and the same rock, paper, scissors gameplay that New Eden is known for. What is -not- fun is losing simply because the guy was using what is functionally the same exact thing as you, but his is better just because it has better fitting capability.
"-the old GÇ£TierGÇ¥ system of balancing ships that had mandated weakness from many of EVEGÇÖs ships and endeavoring to make every ship viable and fun to fly in its own right. "
10% of US schools no longer teach Cursive. A decade from now, 10% of the US isn't going to understand all the squiglies.
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Aeon Amadi
Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback
11
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Posted - 2015.07.05 14:47:00 -
[5] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:
graphics mean nothing, watched it played, i don't play any single player fps storylines, TDM is life, TDM is love
You make me sad, Rattati. You'll never know the feeling of switching to Maximum Speed and outrunning a Jeep. You'll never know the feeling of switching to Maximum Strength and punching said jeep into oblivion, then uppercutting a commie into orbit.
In all seriousness though, you really need to play it rather than watch it to experience what it is to -FEEL- like a super soldier in that game and I think by experiencing that you could learn a lot about what we want from Dust 514 (and why I was so freaggin happy when jump height was added to Myros ^_^)
AndyAndio wrote:
You succeded, i stopped reading after you said "EvE Online" MVP out.-
/sigh
-YOU- wanted to know what Tiericide was and why people are for it. You basically just pulled a Westboro Baptist.
10% of US schools no longer teach Cursive. A decade from now, 10% of the US isn't going to understand all the squiglies.
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Aeon Amadi
Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback
11
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Posted - 2015.07.05 15:51:00 -
[6] - Quote
Devadander wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:CCP Rattati wrote: I have player every single fps there is
i admit, i never played tabula rasa or crysis, was tabula rasa even a fps You've never played Crysis? Worst. Dev. Ever. Dude, it is on Steam, I will buy it for you if you play it. It'll revolutionize your life.... Barring of course that your rig can run it optimally. It is still used as a bench mark in some cases, afterall >_>; Crysis is overhyped garbage. Yeah, innovations.... But trash levels and no direction. People still bench morrowind and doom 3 lowl
Is there any FPS game that came out after 2008 that wasn't over-hyped garbage..?
10% of US schools no longer teach Cursive. A decade from now, 10% of the US isn't going to understand all the squiglies.
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