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Raven-747 WarRavens 36	Posted - 2015.06.16 07:07:00 - [1] - Quote Quit nagging on the forums about how laser weapons are tearing you down (especially caldari assaults). Laser weapons were meant to rip your shields that is how it should be. As it is the Scr has been nerfed and now it takes a little longer to kill a cal assault with a adv scr. If you compare shields to armor do take this into consideration that shields regenerate way faster than armor and have a high regen rate so it makes for an effective hit and run. Also if you are a caladari assault user and still complaining about Scr then you are prob angry because you took on a scr head on like a idiot and died to it. Basically, git gud. I once took a core locus to the knee
Arcadiia Kain Capital Acquisitions LLC 117	Posted - 2015.06.16 07:29:00 - [2] - Quote ^A warraven telling people to get good, and explaining how the game works. Anyone else laugh their @$$ off over this? The Naughty Ninjas Just another player. Gk.0 logi, scout, sentinel, assault. Mk.0 commando
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.06.16 07:42:00 - [3] - Quote Raven-747 wrote: Quit nagging on the forums about how laser weapons are tearing you down (especially caldari assaults). Laser weapons were meant to rip your shields that is how it should be. As it is the Scr has been nerfed and now it takes a little longer to kill a cal assault with a adv scr. If you compare shields to armor do take this into consideration that shields regenerate way faster than armor and have a high regen rate so it makes for an effective hit and run. Also if you are a caladari assault user and still complaining about Scr then you are prob angry because you took on a scr head on like a idiot and died to it. Basically, git gud. So... a potential 1200 DPS vs shields is... balanced? Before you ask base DPS is 715 before profiles. More than enough to delete any calassault, even a brick shield. And with max skills and 3 damage mods you can get over 1200 shield profile DpS. That will flash a calsent in 1.4 seconds even if you crank the calsent up to max shield HP at slightly over 900. Yes I am including the calsents armor and laser resistance on shields in that number before you ask. So... having a negligible ttk vs an entire race is... Balanced. And having a higher armor DPS than the combat rifles is... Balanced. Yes, I see it now. Well done sir, you have educated us all. :golfclap: WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
nelo kazuma Ecce Initio RLC. RUST415 274	Posted - 2015.06.16 07:46:00 - [4] - Quote Lol shield dmg I can expect but qhen it can tear through my cals 400+ armor base in seconds when not even a rr which is mean to be the alpha weapon yeaaaaaaaaa something wrong there FOR THE STATE ^(-_-) Cal Loyalist For Life
nelo kazuma Ecce Initio RLC. RUST415 274	Posted - 2015.06.16 07:47:00 - [5] - Quote nelo kazuma wrote: Lol shield dmg I can expect but qhen it can tear through my cals 400+ armor base in seconds when not even a rr which is mean to be the alpha weapon yeaaaaaaaaa something wrong there Ohh talking about my sent btw which is supposed to have laser resistance FOR THE STATE ^(-_-) Cal Loyalist For Life
jerrmy12 kahoalii G0DS AM0NG MEN New Eden's Heros 1	Posted - 2015.06.16 08:23:00 - [6] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Raven-747 wrote: Quit nagging on the forums about how laser weapons are tearing you down (especially caldari assaults). Laser weapons were meant to rip your shields that is how it should be. As it is the Scr has been nerfed and now it takes a little longer to kill a cal assault with a adv scr. If you compare shields to armor do take this into consideration that shields regenerate way faster than armor and have a high regen rate so it makes for an effective hit and run. Also if you are a caladari assault user and still complaining about Scr then you are prob angry because you took on a scr head on like a idiot and died to it. Basically, git gud. So... a potential 1200 DPS vs shields is... balanced? Before you ask base DPS is 715 before profiles. More than enough to delete any calassault, even a brick shield. And with max skills and 3 damage mods you can get over 1200 shield profile DpS. That will flash a calsent in 1.4 seconds even if you crank the calsent up to max shield HP at slightly over 900. Yes I am including the calsents armor and laser resistance on shields in that number before you ask. So... having a negligible ttk vs an entire race is... Balanced. And having a higher armor DPS than the combat rifles is... Balanced. Yes, I see it now. Well done sir, you have educated us all. :golfclap: http://i.imgur.com/QCSjDbG.gif To the op: http://i.imgur.com/62M0hTx.gif Closed beta vet. Master troll. No lifer. Master lurker.
Viktor Hadah Jr Negative-Impact Back and Forth 8	Posted - 2015.06.16 10:17:00 - [7] - Quote Arcadiia Kain wrote: ^A warraven telling people to get good, and explaining how the game works. Anyone else laugh their @$$ off over this? Are you doing this sh*t on purpose or do you just It see what is wrong with these posts. Vote Viktor Hadah for CPM2 or i'll hurt you. CBM In the CPM Get Dust ISK Here
deezy dabest 2	Posted - 2015.06.16 11:21:00 - [8] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Raven-747 wrote: Quit nagging on the forums about how laser weapons are tearing you down (especially caldari assaults). Laser weapons were meant to rip your shields that is how it should be. As it is the Scr has been nerfed and now it takes a little longer to kill a cal assault with a adv scr. If you compare shields to armor do take this into consideration that shields regenerate way faster than armor and have a high regen rate so it makes for an effective hit and run. Also if you are a caladari assault user and still complaining about Scr then you are prob angry because you took on a scr head on like a idiot and died to it. Basically, git gud. So... a potential 1200 DPS vs shields is... balanced? Before you ask base DPS is 715 before profiles. More than enough to delete any calassault, even a brick shield. And with max skills and 3 damage mods you can get over 1200 shield profile DpS. That will flash a calsent in 1.4 seconds even if you crank the calsent up to max shield HP at slightly over 900. Yes I am including the calsents armor and laser resistance on shields in that number before you ask. So... having a negligible ttk vs an entire race is... Balanced. And having a higher armor DPS than the combat rifles is... Balanced. Yes, I see it now. Well done sir, you have educated us all. :golfclap: I like how you tried to manipulate the numbers there. DPS stands for damage per second implying that it carries for multiple seconds or that it can be applied in one second which is not the case on a full charged shot. Charge time and potential overheat make the actual sustained DPS considerably less depending on the persons skills, suit, and ability to time heat build up. Typical shield user trying to manipulate the numbers to try to get people to agree with them when they know they are wrong.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.06.16 11:48:00 - [9] - Quote Charge shot lowers the dps. I actually have the dps calculations written up on a spreadsheet posted to the forums in the rifle normalization thread. The math is there for all to see. So do please tell me how I'm manipulating the numbers. I'm all ears. I don't have to manipulate a goddamn thing. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
deezy dabest 2	Posted - 2015.06.16 11:53:00 - [10] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Charge shot lowers the dps. I actually have the dps calculations written up on a spreadsheet posted to the forums in the rifle normalization thread. The math is there for all to see. So do please tell me how I'm manipulating the numbers. I'm all ears. I don't have to manipulate a goddamn thing. So link this spreadsheet.

Viktor Hadah Jr Negative-Impact Back and Forth 8	Posted - 2015.06.16 11:58:00 - [11] - Quote i got 84mil sp. i think i'll train into cal assault next just to see what all the fuss is about... Vote Viktor Hadah for CPM2 or i'll hurt you. CBM In the CPM Get Dust ISK Here
deezy dabest 2	Posted - 2015.06.16 12:07:00 - [12] - Quote The only issue is shield users saying their scouts get killed too fast. As you can see in this graph the Ratatti posted even while it is a heavily spammed weapon the ScR ranks 4th out of all weapons for kills. I will agree that shields need some tweaking but this lunacy of following CCPs lead of buffing one thing through nerfing something else is just ridiculous. If you don't like getting killed stop running around corners thinking you are some kind of strafing god that can take on a charge shot that is waiting for you, still strafe to save your ass, and then getting mad because someone actually had gun game to pop you.
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 998	Posted - 2015.06.16 12:15:00 - [13] - Quote You can't really compare semi auto weapon dps with full auto as it doesn't give a realistic representation of in game dps. The semi auto scrambler isn't even in the top 10 used, according to recent market data. The scrambler rifle overheats and has vastly greater fitting costs than other rifles. It should be the most powerful. What about combat rifle damage to armour, not to mention the HMG?
Mejt0 Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.06.16 12:28:00 - [14] - Quote So that's why 90% of slayers use (a)CR and (a)RR. ScR is so op that those players are scared to even touch it. Loyal to The State Member of : State Protectorate Belongs to : Patriots power bloc Civire Bloodline
Mejt0 Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.06.16 12:45:00 - [15] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: And with max skills and 3 damage mods you can get over 1200 shield profile DpS. You shouldn't count ScR full rof. It can be achived only by using modded controller which is game-side problem, not the gun. Average player can achive between 420-480 ROF. Even less when you have to aim properly. By that logic i can say that CR has well over 1000 dps versus armor. Why should i count spaces between bursts if in your calculations player is able to tap R1 12 times in a second while aiming. Loyal to The State Member of : State Protectorate Belongs to : Patriots power bloc Civire Bloodline
qing tian wang New Eden's Army Rise Of Legion. 4	Posted - 2015.06.16 13:26:00 - [16] - Quote Shield is used to run faster or hide faster, not fighting with lasers face to face. and, remember, the world setting is from EVE, which set the shield as "Low ehp, fast revive" by the way, the Caldari Logistics were once very OP (Maybe that's before Uprising 1.4 sìÄS¦¦DUST 514tÄ¬s«¦ EVE China Fans Site
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.06.16 14:38:00 - [17] - Quote Mejt0 wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: And with max skills and 3 damage mods you can get over 1200 shield profile DpS. You shouldn't count ScR full rof. It can be achived only by using modded controller which is game-side problem, not the gun. Average player can achive between 420-480 ROF. Even less when you have to aim properly. By that logic i can say that CR has well over 1000 dps versus armor. Why should i count spaces between bursts if in your calculations player is able to tap R1 12 times in a second while aiming. There is a 0.21 second delay between valid trigger pulls on the CR. This means you can only ever get 4.76 bursts per second. Total armor DPS? 662 triple modded vs armor. Your numbers are slightly off. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Squagga Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 800	Posted - 2015.06.16 15:06:00 - [18] - Quote Dear, OP. You're a war raven. Therefore, your argument is invalid Shields, the silent killer.
jonny battles Random Gunz Rise Of Legion. 36	Posted - 2015.06.16 15:07:00 - [19] - Quote I agree with you they should rip cal assaults in half but when I'm in a proto amarr sentinl I have a problem with that I It was just that easy
VikingKong iBUN 0uter.Heaven 421	Posted - 2015.06.16 15:10:00 - [20] - Quote Yeh, laser weapons should destroy shields fast. Not instapop 600 shields in 0.1 seconds. I would like a Gallente SMG. TUNNEL SNAKES RULE

JARREL THOMAS Dead Man's Game 688	Posted - 2015.06.16 15:22:00 - [21] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: The only issue is shield users saying their scouts get killed too fast. As you can see in this graph the Ratatti posted even while it is a heavily spammed weapon the ScR ranks 4th out of all weapons for kills. I will agree that shields need some tweaking but this lunacy of following CCPs lead of buffing one thing through nerfing something else is just ridiculous. If you don't like getting killed stop running around corners thinking you are some kind of strafing god that can take on a charge shot that is waiting for you, still strafe to save your ass, and then getting mad because someone actually had gun game to pop you. HAVING LESS KILLS MEANS NOTHING IT CAN MEAN LESS PEOPLE USE IT WHICH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT BEING THE MOST BROKEN RIFLE, NOW STOP PUTTING UP SHITSHEETS. No caps locks were harmed in this post. Caldari Loyalist. ( -í° -£-û -í°) They see me rollin they Hating (..) ( l: ) ( .-. ) ( :l ) (..)
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.06.16 15:46:00 - [22] - Quote There is a wide margin of difference between rattati's data and a shitsheet. That graph does not have the contextual data needed to validate his claims. But it's not a shitsheet. Let's see if the people saying I'm full of crap can even comprehend the numbers Here is the rifles proposal I actually did my homework. But if you all insist I'm manipulating the numbers, please, by all means. Prove me wrong. With math. Anecdotal BS will be mocked without mercy. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Mejt0 Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.06.16 16:05:00 - [23] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Mejt0 wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: And with max skills and 3 damage mods you can get over 1200 shield profile DpS. You shouldn't count ScR full rof. It can be achived only by using modded controller which is game-side problem, not the gun. Average player can achive between 420-480 ROF. Even less when you have to aim properly. By that logic i can say that CR has well over 1000 dps versus armor. Why should i count spaces between bursts if in your calculations player is able to tap R1 12 times in a second while aiming. There is a 0.21 second delay between valid trigger pulls on the CR. This means you can only ever get 4.76 bursts per second. Total armor DPS? 662 triple modded vs armor. Your numbers are slightly off. Read it again. In other words i said that your calculations make no sense. Counting modded controllers is like counting bursts without delays. Loyal to The State Member of : State Protectorate Belongs to : Patriots power bloc Civire Bloodline
Boot Booter Eat Your Cookies INC 1	Posted - 2015.06.16 16:25:00 - [24] - Quote Look the scr is 100% op against shield tanks, there should be no debate. Numbers show it and it only takes a few matches to figure it out when you're in a proper shield tanked cal assault. Try to imagine the cr having +20% to armor, only having 400 to 600 armor, and the possibility of a random charge shot that instantly pops your tank. The ascr even breaks the dps range curve. Nothing makes sense with this weapon and the reason is ratatti was trying too hard to balance the rifles in an armor meta game. I like the cal assault, it's becoming my favorite suit but to have an entire playstyles nullified by one weapon is not fair. I get that dust is kinda rock paper scissors but the scr vs shield is by far the most polarised match up and needs to be toned down for balance.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.06.16 16:27:00 - [25] - Quote Mejt0 wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Mejt0 wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: And with max skills and 3 damage mods you can get over 1200 shield profile DpS. You shouldn't count ScR full rof. It can be achived only by using modded controller which is game-side problem, not the gun. Average player can achive between 420-480 ROF. Even less when you have to aim properly. By that logic i can say that CR has well over 1000 dps versus armor. Why should i count spaces between bursts if in your calculations player is able to tap R1 12 times in a second while aiming. There is a 0.21 second delay between valid trigger pulls on the CR. This means you can only ever get 4.76 bursts per second. Total armor DPS? 662 triple modded vs armor. Your numbers are slightly off. Read it again. In other words i said that your calculations make no sense. Counting modded controllers is like counting bursts without delays. I'm not assuming squat. I am presenting the numbers. Quit putting words in my mouth. You trying to read my mind is failing miserably. Oh by the way, my numbers don't account for the warbarge bonus. I left that out. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Francois Sanchez Prima Gallicus 498	Posted - 2015.06.16 17:48:00 - [26] - Quote The only true point of the OP is that shield users tend to be a bit to whiney. However if any anti-armour weapon was half as broken as the ScR is you would see 5 threads per day to nerf it. Yes ScR should melt shield, however in a balanced coniguration it should be garbage against armour whereas it has much more DPS against armour than the RR... So OP, either you're a liar trying to keep your gun the most broken thing ever, or you're a crappy noob that can't get good results with such a good gun.
Sicerly Yaw Quantum times 249	Posted - 2015.06.16 18:40:00 - [27] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: I like how you tried to manipulate the numbers there. DPS stands for damage per second implying that it carries for multiple seconds or that it can be applied in one second which is not the case on a full charged shot. Charge time and potential overheat make the actual sustained DPS considerably less depending on the persons skills, suit, and ability to time heat build up. Typical shield user trying to manipulate the numbers to try to get people to agree with them when they know they are wrong. DPS isn't even the problem the fact of the matter is that the ScR at std has 65 damage per shot mind you this is without the insane damage profile 600 RPM which is debatable since it only matter how fast you can pull the trigger accuracy rating 57.46 i'll let you figure out the optimal on your own 2.5 second reload the rail rifle at adv has 49.35 damage per bullet 461.54 RPM Accuracy rating of 54.47 and a reload of 3.2 seconds this stats are as of right now what is in the game tell me how that is supposed to be balanced? why does the ScR pack more of a punch with higher DPS or at least higher rate of fire then the RR at adv not even std here are the stats of the std RR damage 47 rate of fire 461.54 accuracy rating 54.47 reload 3.2 seconds sure the ScR does build up heat but you can easily pop anyone before this becomes a problem and with the Amarr assault this isn't even a problem that you have to actively worry about, this is only the beginning of what I see wrong with the ScR it has negligible kick if any at all, there is no real drawback that I see other then the overheat mechanism and as I have stated you can get rid of that too, this rifle does better at range then the Rail rifle at least up to a certain range which at that point damge becomes negligible altogether the amount of damage that you can gain against shields with the proper skills is insane, but that isn't even the real problem as is destroys armor just as fast without much of a difference as you can fire so fast and with a charged shot and get more damge that you can destroy anything with less then 1k ehp armor or shields under a second or two where other weapons take at least 2 to 3 seconds that's with full applied damage meaning you have to be at your optimal or below which makes the ScR one of the best weapons if not the best in this whole game at any range it also has the highest damage per clip possible which is insane all on its own sure the ScR has been "nerfed" here and there but the weapon that took the hardest hit of them all in dust history as far as I know is the Rail Rifle so anyone complaining about any nerfs to the ScR needs to HTFU you want easy mode? then go play COD or BF whatever scrub game you prefer
Sicerly Yaw Quantum times 249	Posted - 2015.06.16 18:41:00 - [28] - Quote Francois Sanchez wrote: The only true point of the OP is that shield users tend to be a bit to whiney. However if any anti-armour weapon was half as broken as the ScR is you would see 5 threads per day to nerf it. Yes ScR should melt shield, however in a balanced coniguration it should be garbage against armour whereas it has much more DPS against armour than the RR... So OP, either you're a liar trying to keep your gun the most broken thing ever, or you're a crappy noob that can't get good results with such a good gun. why not both?
Sicerly Yaw Quantum times 249	Posted - 2015.06.16 18:43:00 - [29] - Quote Mejt0 wrote: Read it again. In other words i said that your calculations make no sense. Counting modded controllers is like counting bursts without delays. bursts have no delay if you time your shots, which means you can easily achieve the max RPM if not at least very close to it making your argument mute and invalid
Scheneighnay McBob Tribal Liberation Force Paramilitary 7	Posted - 2015.06.16 19:08:00 - [30] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Charge shot lowers the dps. I actually have the dps calculations written up on a spreadsheet posted to the forums in the rifle normalization thread. The math is there for all to see. So do please tell me how I'm manipulating the numbers. I'm all ears. I don't have to manipulate a goddamn thing. DPS isn't the point of a charge shot, the point is alpha damage Rule 34.6.1: every parody will have a crossover

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.06.16 21:16:00 - [31] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Charge shot lowers the dps. I actually have the dps calculations written up on a spreadsheet posted to the forums in the rifle normalization thread. The math is there for all to see. So do please tell me how I'm manipulating the numbers. I'm all ears. I don't have to manipulate a goddamn thing. DPS isn't the point of a charge shot, the point is alpha damage I am aware. I am also aware that the charge shot can kill almost every shield suit in one shout to the head. That in and of itself does not bother me. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
nelo kazuma Ecce Initio RLC. RUST415 278	Posted - 2015.06.16 22:09:00 - [32] - Quote I love how no one covers the armor dmg profile at all when bashing shield characters n have yet to see an explanation on how a scr can instantly wipe out my 400 + armor on my cal sent in a second. Issue with this weapon is not its shield based dmg but its amount of armor ill say it again when a scr can out dps armor better than a cr and a rr faster (n those are armor based weapons) than there is obviously an issue same for laser rifle but at least that has real draw backs its hard to use at close range unlike scr which fire rate is equal if not higher than its assault version so nobody uses it as much. Scr users your just scared your weapon will turn into the assault rifle which in my opinion is the most balanced weapon in the game because its a shield weapon that is not as effective against armor based characters which is why its not used by most proto players. FOR THE STATE ^(-_-) Cal Loyalist For Life
Zan Azikuchi G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance 91	Posted - 2015.06.16 23:24:00 - [33] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: There is a wide margin of difference between rattati's data and a shitsheet. That graph does not have the contextual data needed to validate his claims. But it's not a shitsheet. Let's see if the people saying I'm full of crap can even comprehend the numbers Here is the rifles proposal I actually did my homework. But if you all insist I'm manipulating the numbers, please, by all means. Prove me wrong. With math. Anecdotal BS will be mocked without mercy. Hey, for the RR's charge time's, have you tried for every .10 seconds that reduces DPS by 1%? -3% and -4.5%? When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.06.17 04:18:00 - [34] - Quote I need the actual formula CCP use to figure out the charge time effect on DPS. Unfortunately it's not a flat effect. Because the charge time only affects the initial trigger pull the DPS loss actually drops the longer the weapon is fired. It's not like the forge gun where the charge time has a consistently even affect upon DPS. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 19	Posted - 2015.06.17 04:25:00 - [35] - Quote Boot Booter wrote: Look the scr is 100% op against shield tanks, there should be no debate. Numbers show it and it only takes a few matches to figure it out when you're in a proper shield tanked cal assault. Try to imagine the cr having +20% to armor, only having 400 to 600 armor, and the possibility of a random charge shot that instantly pops your tank. The ascr even breaks the dps range curve. Nothing makes sense with this weapon and the reason is ratatti was trying too hard to balance the rifles in an armor meta game. I like the cal assault, it's becoming my favorite suit but to have an entire playstyles nullified by one weapon is not fair. I get that dust is kinda rock paper scissors but the scr vs shield is by far the most polarised match up and needs to be toned down for balance. I do only have 641 Armour and if the Combat Rifle did have +20% vs armour it's would have a DPS value a little over 1000 and be on par with the Tactical Duvolle and Viziam ScR. "Crush all who complain!" `- Arkena Wyrnspire`
Francois Sanchez Prima Gallicus 498	Posted - 2015.06.17 08:00:00 - [36] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Boot Booter wrote: Look the scr is 100% op against shield tanks, there should be no debate. Numbers show it and it only takes a few matches to figure it out when you're in a proper shield tanked cal assault. Try to imagine the cr having +20% to armor, only having 400 to 600 armor, and the possibility of a random charge shot that instantly pops your tank. The ascr even breaks the dps range curve. Nothing makes sense with this weapon and the reason is ratatti was trying too hard to balance the rifles in an armor meta game. I like the cal assault, it's becoming my favorite suit but to have an entire playstyles nullified by one weapon is not fair. I get that dust is kinda rock paper scissors but the scr vs shield is by far the most polarised match up and needs to be toned down for balance. I do only have 641 Armour and if the Combat Rifle did have +20% vs armour it's would have a DPS value a little over 1000 and be on par with the Tactical Duvolle and Viziam ScR. Not at all, the true base DPS of a CR is around 430 as you can't reach 1200 RPM, you can fire only around 850 RPM while I can consistently get over 500 RPM with the ScR
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 2	Posted - 2015.06.17 08:22:00 - [37] - Quote Sicerly Yaw wrote: Mejt0 wrote: Read it again. In other words i said that your calculations make no sense. Counting modded controllers is like counting bursts without delays. bursts have no delay if you time your shots, which means you can easily achieve the max RPM if not at least very close to it making your argument mute and invalid this is not how it works. the CR has a 0.06s burst fire delay after each burst. it doesnt matter how fast and when you press, the next burst wont start before this 0.06 delay is over. this means the CR has a paper RPM of 1200 during the burst (which is a 0.15s timeframe) but if you calculate in the burst delay the real RPM is actually ~857.
nelo kazuma Ecce Initio RLC. RUST415 280	Posted - 2015.06.17 09:04:00 - [38] - Quote Francois Sanchez wrote: The only true point of the OP is that shield users tend to be a bit to whiney. However if any anti-armour weapon was half as broken as the ScR is you would see 5 threads per day to nerf it. Yes ScR should melt shield, however in a balanced coniguration it should be garbage against armour whereas it has much more DPS against armour than the RR... So OP, either you're a liar trying to keep your gun the most broken thing ever, or you're a crappy noob that can't get good results with such a good gun. Umm that did happen rail rifle remember about 90% of the community was armor based n when ccp realised the rail rifle a armor based weapon people flipped immediate nerf posts appeared n ccp catered to the armor based (spoiled at that community) FOR THE STATE ^(-_-) Cal Loyalist For Life
Arcadiia Kain Capital Acquisitions LLC 126	Posted - 2015.06.17 09:51:00 - [39] - Quote Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: Arcadiia Kain wrote: ^A warraven telling people to get good, and explaining how the game works. Anyone else laugh their @$$ off over this? Are you doing this sh*t on purpose or do you just not see what is wrong with these posts. Are you stalking my posts on purpose, or do you not see how creepy it looks? The simple answer... What does it matter? The Naughty Ninjas Just another player. Gk.0 logi, scout, sentinel, assault. Mk.0 commando
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3	Posted - 2015.06.17 10:12:00 - [40] - Quote People are also incredibly quick to forget about PROPORTIONAL damage. Armor users can run around easily with upwards of 700-800 hp, or more if they're playing a sentinel. Shield users rarely break 550 shield HP. Not all points of HP are equal. Furthermore the highly armored assault also tends to have about ~250ish shield HP... so they have about 25% of their total hp pool in a rapidly regenerating non-primary tank hp pool that takes damage before their primary tank... Whereas the heavily shielded assault tends to only have about ~500-550hp in their PRIMARY tank pool, and only about 200-250ish armor in a slowly regenerating low hp pool that takes damage after their primary tank. On average the armor assault has about ~25% more HP to play with in almost all situations as only that last point of armor counts (assuming something like 10-20 seconds between engagements). This also doesn't account for the fact that the weapons that do bonus damage to shields are also some of the highest DPS weapons in the game and get to spend their utility highslots on damage mods. Gal-assault with proto burst AR & 3 damage mods = 931 shield dps (not accounting for warbarge), Viziam = ~1150 dps vs shields, Carthum ASCR = ~900dps vs shields. More damage vs smaller healthpool = dramatically lower TTK. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.

Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.06.17 10:44:00 - [41] - Quote I would rather see the laser damage profile changed to +/-15 before the scrambler gets nerfed. Seems to me that the profile is a major cause for complaints. I'm yet to see a decent comparison of scrambler dps to armour vs cr dps to shields. There are lots of factors that make it difficult. When I get back on my computer I'll do the calculations myself. To be honest, there are so many factors to consider when balancing weapons and armour vs shields, the best thing to do is look at effectiveness and usage stats. Unfortunately we don't have access to all this data so we need to see what Rattati says. We have market usage data, which tells us that the scrambler rifle isn't in the top 10 most popular light weapons. Also, I completely disagree with Mina's comment on proportional damage. There are benefits to running less hp. If those benefits aren't enough it's not a problem with scrambler rifles.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.06.17 11:58:00 - [42] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: I would rather see the laser damage profile changed to +/-15 before the scrambler gets nerfed. Seems to me that the profile is a major cause for complaints. I'm yet to see a decent comparison of scrambler dps to armour vs cr dps to shields. There are lots of factors that make it difficult. When I get back on my computer I'll do the calculations myself. To be honest, there are so many factors to consider when balancing weapons and armour vs shields, the best thing to do is look at effectiveness and usage stats. Unfortunately we don't have access to all this data so we need to see what Rattati says. We have market usage data, which tells us that the scrambler rifle isn't in the top 10 most popular light weapons. Also, I completely disagree with Mina's comment on proportional damage. There are benefits to running less hp. If those benefits aren't enough it's not a problem with scrambler rifles. So what's wrong with my math? I have all of the stats calculated out from base, to max skill to max with 3 mods, separated into vs. armor and Vs. shields in all cases. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.06.17 12:02:00 - [43] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Boot Booter wrote: Look the scr is 100% op against shield tanks, there should be no debate. Numbers show it and it only takes a few matches to figure it out when you're in a proper shield tanked cal assault. Try to imagine the cr having +20% to armor, only having 400 to 600 armor, and the possibility of a random charge shot that instantly pops your tank. The ascr even breaks the dps range curve. Nothing makes sense with this weapon and the reason is ratatti was trying too hard to balance the rifles in an armor meta game. I like the cal assault, it's becoming my favorite suit but to have an entire playstyles nullified by one weapon is not fair. I get that dust is kinda rock paper scissors but the scr vs shield is by far the most polarised match up and needs to be toned down for balance. I do only have 641 Armour and if the Combat Rifle did have +20% vs armour it's would have a DPS value a little over 1000 and be on par with the Tactical Duvolle and Viziam ScR. the TAR (1090 DPS max) is right there with the Viz (1164 DPS). My question is... Why is the TAR not on the screaming fit pile with the scram? I don't use the TAR and the scram solely because my hit detection performance has gone to utter crap over the last two months, so I can't test & compare. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Viktor Hadah Jr Negative-Impact Back and Forth 8	Posted - 2015.06.17 12:06:00 - [44] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: True Adamance wrote: Boot Booter wrote: Look the scr is 100% op against shield tanks, there should be no debate. Numbers show it and it only takes a few matches to figure it out when you're in a proper shield tanked cal assault. Try to imagine the cr having +20% to armor, only having 400 to 600 armor, and the possibility of a random charge shot that instantly pops your tank. The ascr even breaks the dps range curve. Nothing makes sense with this weapon and the reason is ratatti was trying too hard to balance the rifles in an armor meta game. I like the cal assault, it's becoming my favorite suit but to have an entire playstyles nullified by one weapon is not fair. I get that dust is kinda rock paper scissors but the scr vs shield is by far the most polarised match up and needs to be toned down for balance. I do only have 641 Armour and if the Combat Rifle did have +20% vs armour it's would have a DPS value a little over 1000 and be on par with the Tactical Duvolle and Viziam ScR. the TAR (1090 DPS max) is right there with the Viz (1164 DPS). My question is... Why is the TAR not on the screaming fit pile with the scram? I don't use the TAR and the scram solely because my hit detection performance has gone to utter crap over the last two months, so I can't test & compare. Because DPS is a r*tarded stat to use in Dust. Vote Viktor Hadah for CPM2 or i'll hurt you. CBM In the CPM Get Dust ISK Here
Nirwanda Vaughns 1	Posted - 2015.06.17 12:09:00 - [45] - Quote just as explosive weapons rip through armour, so does laser weaponry with shields. its how the game is, its how its been in EVE for 12 yrs. The problem with LR (not ScR) is damage it does to armour due to the build up. i've said for years we need the shield/armour resistences from eve as well as weapon profiles. it'd allow for far more fine tunings to weapon balances and TTK You'll never have enough ISK to buy my C-II BPO
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.06.17 12:13:00 - [46] - Quote Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: Because DPS is a r*tarded stat to use in Dust. Not really, because there's other factors. if DPS was the only concern your Laser Rifle would be first on the chopping block. But DPS is bloody important. Anyone who says otherwise is delusional. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.06.17 12:14:00 - [47] - Quote Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: just as explosive weapons rip through armour, so does laser weaponry with shields. its how the game is, its how its been in EVE for 12 yrs. The problem with LR (not ScR) is damage it does to armour due to the build up. i've said for years we need the shield/armour resistences from eve as well as weapon profiles. it'd allow for far more fine tunings to weapon balances and TTK this isn't a discussion of the LR. Your inability to duck when caressed by Viktor is not the topic of discussion today. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Mobius Wyvern Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 6	Posted - 2015.06.17 12:16:00 - [48] - Quote Raven-747 wrote: Quit nagging on the forums about how laser weapons are tearing you down (especially caldari assaults). Laser weapons were meant to rip your shields that is how it should be. As it is the Scr has been nerfed and now it takes a little longer to kill a cal assault with a adv scr. If you compare shields to armor do take this into consideration that shields regenerate way faster than armor and have a high regen rate so it makes for an effective hit and run. Also if you are a caladari assault user and still complaining about Scr then you are prob angry because you took on a scr head on like a idiot and died to it. Basically, git gud. Seriously, I fit for regen and use a Rail Rifle. Scrambler Rifles amuse me now as I waste them from outside their range. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Francois Sanchez Prima Gallicus 498	Posted - 2015.06.17 12:26:00 - [49] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: True Adamance wrote: Boot Booter wrote: Look the scr is 100% op against shield tanks, there should be no debate. Numbers show it and it only takes a few matches to figure it out when you're in a proper shield tanked cal assault. Try to imagine the cr having +20% to armor, only having 400 to 600 armor, and the possibility of a random charge shot that instantly pops your tank. The ascr even breaks the dps range curve. Nothing makes sense with this weapon and the reason is ratatti was trying too hard to balance the rifles in an armor meta game. I like the cal assault, it's becoming my favorite suit but to have an entire playstyles nullified by one weapon is not fair. I get that dust is kinda rock paper scissors but the scr vs shield is by far the most polarised match up and needs to be toned down for balance. I do only have 641 Armour and if the Combat Rifle did have +20% vs armour it's would have a DPS value a little over 1000 and be on par with the Tactical Duvolle and Viziam ScR. the TAR (1090 DPS max) is right there with the Viz (1164 DPS). My question is... Why is the TAR not on the screaming fit pile with the scram? I don't use the TAR and the scram solely because my hit detection performance has gone to utter crap over the last two months, so I can't test & compare. Because the TAR is ten times harder to handle than the ScR, you'll never fire your TAR as fast as the ScR. And it doesn't have a charge shot. And honestly I find the TAR really at the limit of OPness
Nirwanda Vaughns 1	Posted - 2015.06.17 12:29:00 - [50] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: just as explosive weapons rip through armour, so does laser weaponry with shields. its how the game is, its how its been in EVE for 12 yrs. The problem with LR (not ScR) is damage it does to armour due to the build up. i've said for years we need the shield/armour resistences from eve as well as weapon profiles. it'd allow for far more fine tunings to weapon balances and TTK this isn't a discussion of the LR. Your inability to duck when caressed by Viktor is not the topic of discussion today. can't duck when your in the open... well you can but it won't do jack to help. the issue with laser weapons though would be sorted with resistences to shield/armour. shield has 0% EM and 20% thermal resists. armour is 50% EM and 35% therm. if laser weapons were given EM and Thermal damage then each stat could be altered to get proper balance. LR does too much to armour you drop its EM/Therm damage, ScR neds a buff vs shields but not armour then raise its EM damage. the same is accross the board and suits can also be tailored. instead of heavies getting flat resists to weapon profiles they could get racial resistences. resistence plates could also be introduced for shield and armour so you can get a balnce of higher hp or higher resists. Prima Laggicus wanna spam MD and nades. drop a shield extender for an EXP resist plate and they do bugger all damage. load of rail rifle users, increase your kinectic resists. adds more tactics to the battle too. its worked pretty well EVE side You'll never have enough ISK to buy my C-II BPO

Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 2	Posted - 2015.06.17 12:39:00 - [51] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: True Adamance wrote: Boot Booter wrote: Look the scr is 100% op against shield tanks, there should be no debate. Numbers show it and it only takes a few matches to figure it out when you're in a proper shield tanked cal assault. Try to imagine the cr having +20% to armor, only having 400 to 600 armor, and the possibility of a random charge shot that instantly pops your tank. The ascr even breaks the dps range curve. Nothing makes sense with this weapon and the reason is ratatti was trying too hard to balance the rifles in an armor meta game. I like the cal assault, it's becoming my favorite suit but to have an entire playstyles nullified by one weapon is not fair. I get that dust is kinda rock paper scissors but the scr vs shield is by far the most polarised match up and needs to be toned down for balance. I do only have 641 Armour and if the Combat Rifle did have +20% vs armour it's would have a DPS value a little over 1000 and be on par with the Tactical Duvolle and Viziam ScR. the TAR (1090 DPS max) is right there with the Viz (1164 DPS). My question is... Why is the TAR not on the screaming fit pile with the scram? I don't use the TAR and the scram solely because my hit detection performance has gone to utter crap over the last two months, so I can't test & compare. SCR is accurate even with max RPM TAR is not as soon you fire your second projectile in quick succession
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.06.17 12:47:00 - [52] - Quote By my calculations, based on 420 rpm for scramblers and a 0.21 burst delay for combat rifles, as people have said in this thread, I come to 446dps for combat rifles and 455dps for scrambler rifles, without damage profiles. (Standard tier). Clearly this is approximate only to in game damage, which is likely to be lower. The difference is negligible. Bear in mind a Visiam scrambler rifle costs 20pg to fit, whereas a Boundless combat rifle costs only 8pg. Also, you can't overheat a combat rifle. If you bump combat rifle burst delay to a more reasonable 0.3 seconds you get a dps of 415. A more reasonable scrambler rate of fire would be 6 shots a second (try it), giving a dps of 390. We could argue about this for days, hence why I say we should look at k/s and usage data.
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 2	Posted - 2015.06.17 12:54:00 - [53] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: Edit: this is all wrong. Recalculating. This is difficult on my phone! By my calculations, based on 420 rpm for scramblers and a 0.21 burst delay for combat rifles, as people have said in this thread, I come to 446dps for combat rifles and 455dps for scrambler rifles, without damage profiles. (Standard tier). Clearly this is approximate only to in game damage, which is likely to be lower. The difference is negligible. Bear in mind a Visiam scrambler rifle costs 20pg to fit, whereas a Boundless combat rifle costs only 8pg. Also, you can't overheat a combat rifle. If you bump combat rifle burst delay to a more reasonable 0.3 seconds you get a dps of 415. A more reasonable scrambler rate of fire would be 6 shots a second (try it), giving a dps of 390. We could argue about this for days, hence why I say we should look at k/s and usage data. I can press the trigger over 8 times a second over timframe of 20 seconds. I have tested this multiple times in succession with small breaks and I am by no means superhuman. the SCR overheats way quicker than that so I can achieve this the whole game no problem. 6 or 7 rounds per second is a very low standard for a gamer.
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.06.17 13:18:00 - [54] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: Varoth Drac wrote: Edit: this is all wrong. Recalculating. This is difficult on my phone! By my calculations, based on 420 rpm for scramblers and a 0.21 burst delay for combat rifles, as people have said in this thread, I come to 446dps for combat rifles and 455dps for scrambler rifles, without damage profiles. (Standard tier). Clearly this is approximate only to in game damage, which is likely to be lower. The difference is negligible. Bear in mind a Visiam scrambler rifle costs 20pg to fit, whereas a Boundless combat rifle costs only 8pg. Also, you can't overheat a combat rifle. If you bump combat rifle burst delay to a more reasonable 0.3 seconds you get a dps of 415. A more reasonable scrambler rate of fire would be 6 shots a second (try it), giving a dps of 390. We could argue about this for days, hence why I say we should look at k/s and usage data. I can press the trigger over 8 times a second over timframe of 20 seconds. I have tested this multiple times in succession with small breaks and I am by no means superhuman. the SCR overheats way quicker than that so I can achieve this the whole game no problem. 6 or 7 rounds per second is a very low standard for a gamer. I think this is debatable. 6 shots a second seems reasonable to me. The uncertainty highlights why I feel these kinds of comparisons are unreliable in this case. Usage data and effectiveness data would be more reliable.
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 2	Posted - 2015.06.17 15:15:00 - [55] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: Jack McReady wrote: Varoth Drac wrote: Edit: this is all wrong. Recalculating. This is difficult on my phone! By my calculations, based on 420 rpm for scramblers and a 0.21 burst delay for combat rifles, as people have said in this thread, I come to 446dps for combat rifles and 455dps for scrambler rifles, without damage profiles. (Standard tier). Clearly this is approximate only to in game damage, which is likely to be lower. The difference is negligible. Bear in mind a Visiam scrambler rifle costs 20pg to fit, whereas a Boundless combat rifle costs only 8pg. Also, you can't overheat a combat rifle. If you bump combat rifle burst delay to a more reasonable 0.3 seconds you get a dps of 415. A more reasonable scrambler rate of fire would be 6 shots a second (try it), giving a dps of 390. We could argue about this for days, hence why I say we should look at k/s and usage data. I can press the trigger over 8 times a second over timframe of 20 seconds. I have tested this multiple times in succession with small breaks and I am by no means superhuman. the SCR overheats way quicker than that so I can achieve this the whole game no problem. 6 or 7 rounds per second is a very low standard for a gamer. I think this is debatable. 6 shots a second seems reasonable to me. The uncertainty highlights why I feel these kinds of comparisons are unreliable in this case. Usage data and effectiveness data would be more reliable. debatable, maybe, maybe not. what's not debatable though is that there will always be some guy trying to get the maximum out of the scr and buys a turbo controller that costs 20 Gé¼ thus you always have to assume the worst scenario.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.06.17 16:54:00 - [56] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: By my calculations, based on 6 shots per second and a 0.21 burst delay for combat rifles, as people have said in this thread, I come to 386dps for combat rifles and 390dps for scrambler rifles, without damage profiles. (Standard tier). The difference is negligible. Bear in mind a Visiam scrambler rifle costs 20pg to fit, whereas a Boundless combat rifle costs only 8pg. Also, you can't overheat a combat rifle. We could argue about this for days, hence why I say we should look at k/s and usage data. Edited to fix me being an idiot. how are you getting 6 shots? divide 1 by .21 for the correct number WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
VikingKong iBUN 0uter.Heaven 428	Posted - 2015.06.17 18:02:00 - [57] - Quote nelo kazuma wrote: I love how no one covers the armor dmg profile at all when bashing shield characters n have yet to see an explanation on how a scr can instantly wipe out my 400 + armor on my cal sent in a second. Issue with this weapon is not its shield based dmg but its amount of armor ill say it again when a scr can out dps armor better than a cr and a rr faster (n those are armor based weapons) than there is obviously an issue same for laser rifle but at least that has real draw backs its hard to use at close range unlike scr which fire rate is equal if not higher than its assault version so nobody uses it as much. Scr users your just scared your weapon will turn into the assault rifle which in my opinion is the most balanced weapon in the game because its a shield weapon that is not as effective against armor based characters which is why its not used by most proto players. man, you need to learn how to use commas. (these things: , ) I would like a Gallente SMG. TUNNEL SNAKES RULE
Francois Sanchez Prima Gallicus 498	Posted - 2015.06.17 20:23:00 - [58] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: Jack McReady wrote: Varoth Drac wrote: Edit: this is all wrong. Recalculating. This is difficult on my phone! By my calculations, based on 420 rpm for scramblers and a 0.21 burst delay for combat rifles, as people have said in this thread, I come to 446dps for combat rifles and 455dps for scrambler rifles, without damage profiles. (Standard tier). Clearly this is approximate only to in game damage, which is likely to be lower. The difference is negligible. Bear in mind a Visiam scrambler rifle costs 20pg to fit, whereas a Boundless combat rifle costs only 8pg. Also, you can't overheat a combat rifle. If you bump combat rifle burst delay to a more reasonable 0.3 seconds you get a dps of 415. A more reasonable scrambler rate of fire would be 6 shots a second (try it), giving a dps of 390. We could argue about this for days, hence why I say we should look at k/s and usage data. I can press the trigger over 8 times a second over timframe of 20 seconds. I have tested this multiple times in succession with small breaks and I am by no means superhuman. the SCR overheats way quicker than that so I can achieve this the whole game no problem. 6 or 7 rounds per second is a very low standard for a gamer. I think this is debatable. 6 shots a second seems reasonable to me. The uncertainty highlights why I feel these kinds of comparisons are unreliable in this case. Usage data and effectiveness data would be more reliable. Personally I fire between 8 and 9 shots per second with the ScR
rayakalj9 Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 18	Posted - 2015.06.18 01:06:00 - [59] - Quote Raven-747 wrote: Quit nagging on the forums about how laser weapons are tearing you down (especially caldari assaults). Laser weapons were meant to rip your shields that is how it should be. As it is the Scr has been nerfed and now it takes a little longer to kill a cal assault with a adv scr. If you compare shields to armor do take this into consideration that shields regenerate way faster than armor and have a high regen rate so it makes for an effective hit and run. Also if you are a caladari assault user and still complaining about Scr then you are prob angry because you took on a scr head on like a idiot and died to it. Basically, git gud. Am a shield users and you don't hear me complaining about Scr/leaser weapons are op or whatever born jamaican
Operative 1174 Uuali True Companion Planetary Requisitions 832	Posted - 2015.06.18 02:12:00 - [60] - Quote Nothing says lasers should be that good against shields. Lasers are too good against armor in this game. Sans ewar for Cal as in EVE, lasers need nerfing. The CPM candidate we need, not the one we want. Friends are nice, ideas are golden.



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