DUST Search - Dear shield users

True Adamance wrote:

Boot Booter wrote:

Look the scr is 100% op against shield tanks, there should be no debate. Numbers show it and it only takes a few matches to figure it out when you're in a proper shield tanked cal assault.

Try to imagine the cr having +20% to armor, only having 400 to 600 armor, and the possibility of a random charge shot that instantly pops your tank. The ascr even breaks the dps range curve. Nothing makes sense with this weapon and the reason is ratatti was trying too hard to balance the rifles in an armor meta game.

I like the cal assault, it's becoming my favorite suit but to have an entire playstyles nullified by one weapon is not fair. I get that dust is kinda rock paper scissors but the scr vs shield is by far the most polarised match up and needs to be toned down for balance.

I do only have 641 Armour and if the Combat Rifle did have +20% vs armour it's would have a DPS value a little over 1000 and be on par with the Tactical Duvolle and Viziam ScR.

WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.06.16 07:42:00 - [1] - Quote Raven-747 wrote: Quit nagging on the forums about how laser weapons are tearing you down (especially caldari assaults). Laser weapons were meant to rip your shields that is how it should be. As it is the Scr has been nerfed and now it takes a little longer to kill a cal assault with a adv scr. If you compare shields to armor do take this into consideration that shields regenerate way faster than armor and have a high regen rate so it makes for an effective hit and run. Also if you are a caladari assault user and still complaining about Scr then you are prob angry because you took on a scr head on like a idiot and died to it. Basically, git gud. So... a potential 1200 DPS vs shields is... balanced? Before you ask base DPS is 715 before profiles. More than enough to delete any calassault, even a brick shield. And with max skills and 3 damage mods you can get over 1200 shield profile DpS. That will flash a calsent in 1.4 seconds even if you crank the calsent up to max shield HP at slightly over 900. Yes I am including the calsents armor and laser resistance on shields in that number before you ask. So... having a negligible ttk vs an entire race is... Balanced. And having a higher armor DPS than the combat rifles is... Balanced. Yes, I see it now. Well done sir, you have educated us all. :golfclap: WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.06.16 11:48:00 - [2] - Quote Charge shot lowers the dps. I actually have the dps calculations written up on a spreadsheet posted to the forums in the rifle normalization thread. The math is there for all to see. So do please tell me how I'm manipulating the numbers. I'm all ears. I don't have to manipulate a goddamn thing. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.06.16 14:38:00 - [3] - Quote Mejt0 wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: And with max skills and 3 damage mods you can get over 1200 shield profile DpS. You shouldn't count ScR full rof. It can be achived only by using modded controller which is game-side problem, not the gun. Average player can achive between 420-480 ROF. Even less when you have to aim properly. By that logic i can say that CR has well over 1000 dps versus armor. Why should i count spaces between bursts if in your calculations player is able to tap R1 12 times in a second while aiming. There is a 0.21 second delay between valid trigger pulls on the CR. This means you can only ever get 4.76 bursts per second. Total armor DPS? 662 triple modded vs armor. Your numbers are slightly off. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.06.16 15:46:00 - [4] - Quote There is a wide margin of difference between rattati's data and a shitsheet. That graph does not have the contextual data needed to validate his claims. But it's not a shitsheet. Let's see if the people saying I'm full of crap can even comprehend the numbers Here is the rifles proposal I actually did my homework. But if you all insist I'm manipulating the numbers, please, by all means. Prove me wrong. With math. Anecdotal BS will be mocked without mercy. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.06.16 16:27:00 - [5] - Quote Mejt0 wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Mejt0 wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: And with max skills and 3 damage mods you can get over 1200 shield profile DpS. You shouldn't count ScR full rof. It can be achived only by using modded controller which is game-side problem, not the gun. Average player can achive between 420-480 ROF. Even less when you have to aim properly. By that logic i can say that CR has well over 1000 dps versus armor. Why should i count spaces between bursts if in your calculations player is able to tap R1 12 times in a second while aiming. There is a 0.21 second delay between valid trigger pulls on the CR. This means you can only ever get 4.76 bursts per second. Total armor DPS? 662 triple modded vs armor. Your numbers are slightly off. Read it again. In other words i said that your calculations make no sense. Counting modded controllers is like counting bursts without delays. I'm not assuming squat. I am presenting the numbers. Quit putting words in my mouth. You trying to read my mind is failing miserably. Oh by the way, my numbers don't account for the warbarge bonus. I left that out. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.06.16 21:16:00 - [6] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Charge shot lowers the dps. I actually have the dps calculations written up on a spreadsheet posted to the forums in the rifle normalization thread. The math is there for all to see. So do please tell me how I'm manipulating the numbers. I'm all ears. I don't have to manipulate a goddamn thing. DPS isn't the point of a charge shot, the point is alpha damage I am aware. I am also aware that the charge shot can kill almost every shield suit in one shout to the head. That in and of itself does not bother me. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.06.17 04:18:00 - [7] - Quote I need the actual formula CCP use to figure out the charge time effect on DPS. Unfortunately it's not a flat effect. Because the charge time only affects the initial trigger pull the DPS loss actually drops the longer the weapon is fired. It's not like the forge gun where the charge time has a consistently even affect upon DPS. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.06.17 11:58:00 - [8] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: I would rather see the laser damage profile changed to +/-15 before the scrambler gets nerfed. Seems to me that the profile is a major cause for complaints. I'm yet to see a decent comparison of scrambler dps to armour vs cr dps to shields. There are lots of factors that make it difficult. When I get back on my computer I'll do the calculations myself. To be honest, there are so many factors to consider when balancing weapons and armour vs shields, the best thing to do is look at effectiveness and usage stats. Unfortunately we don't have access to all this data so we need to see what Rattati says. We have market usage data, which tells us that the scrambler rifle isn't in the top 10 most popular light weapons. Also, I completely disagree with Mina's comment on proportional damage. There are benefits to running less hp. If those benefits aren't enough it's not a problem with scrambler rifles. So what's wrong with my math? I have all of the stats calculated out from base, to max skill to max with 3 mods, separated into vs. armor and Vs. shields in all cases. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.06.17 12:02:00 - [9] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Boot Booter wrote: Look the scr is 100% op against shield tanks, there should be no debate. Numbers show it and it only takes a few matches to figure it out when you're in a proper shield tanked cal assault. Try to imagine the cr having +20% to armor, only having 400 to 600 armor, and the possibility of a random charge shot that instantly pops your tank. The ascr even breaks the dps range curve. Nothing makes sense with this weapon and the reason is ratatti was trying too hard to balance the rifles in an armor meta game. I like the cal assault, it's becoming my favorite suit but to have an entire playstyles nullified by one weapon is not fair. I get that dust is kinda rock paper scissors but the scr vs shield is by far the most polarised match up and needs to be toned down for balance. I do only have 641 Armour and if the Combat Rifle did have +20% vs armour it's would have a DPS value a little over 1000 and be on par with the Tactical Duvolle and Viziam ScR. the TAR (1090 DPS max) is right there with the Viz (1164 DPS). My question is... Why is the TAR not on the screaming fit pile with the scram? I don't use the TAR and the scram solely because my hit detection performance has gone to utter crap over the last two months, so I can't test & compare. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.06.17 12:13:00 - [10] - Quote Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: Because DPS is a r*tarded stat to use in Dust. Not really, because there's other factors. if DPS was the only concern your Laser Rifle would be first on the chopping block. But DPS is bloody important. Anyone who says otherwise is delusional. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.06.17 12:14:00 - [11] - Quote Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: just as explosive weapons rip through armour, so does laser weaponry with shields. its how the game is, its how its been in EVE for 12 yrs. The problem with LR (not ScR) is damage it does to armour due to the build up. i've said for years we need the shield/armour resistences from eve as well as weapon profiles. it'd allow for far more fine tunings to weapon balances and TTK this isn't a discussion of the LR. Your inability to duck when caressed by Viktor is not the topic of discussion today. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.06.17 16:54:00 - [12] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: By my calculations, based on 6 shots per second and a 0.21 burst delay for combat rifles, as people have said in this thread, I come to 386dps for combat rifles and 390dps for scrambler rifles, without damage profiles. (Standard tier). The difference is negligible. Bear in mind a Visiam scrambler rifle costs 20pg to fit, whereas a Boundless combat rifle costs only 8pg. Also, you can't overheat a combat rifle. We could argue about this for days, hence why I say we should look at k/s and usage data. Edited to fix me being an idiot. how are you getting 6 shots? divide 1 by .21 for the correct number WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.