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Heimdallr69 Negative-Feedback. 5	Posted - 2015.05.29 18:38:00 - [1] - Quote I've been one since mordu's through the ups and downs and now we are buffing other suits and nerfing assaults so I was thinking why not just remove assaults and combine them with mandos..scouts will have speed followed by logis mandos heavies...No more high ehp speed suits, I think this would add more diversity as people would then need to use scouts for speed and mandos for slaying..I was against this but now I believe it might be the best solution, scouts = low hp but fast, logis low hp speed at current assaults, mandos slower than logis but faster than heavies..thoughts? Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
Vordred Knight Your Grandmas 727	Posted - 2015.05.29 18:45:00 - [2] - Quote But I love my sexy Gallente abs yo! Hello, world!
demens grimwulff Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 379	Posted - 2015.05.29 18:46:00 - [3] - Quote Sadly that is basically what will happen with this purposed change... it will remove assaults... so might as well completely remove said assets, also As the archeology of our thought easily shows, man is an invention of recent date. And one perhaps nearing its end
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6	Posted - 2015.05.29 18:49:00 - [4] - Quote demens grimwulff wrote: Sadly that is basically what will happen with this purposed change... it will remove assaults... so might as well completely remove said assets, also Assaults will be useless because their speed will reflect how much defense they have? "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
Heimdallr69 Negative-Feedback. 5	Posted - 2015.05.29 18:53:00 - [5] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: demens grimwulff wrote: Sadly that is basically what will happen with this purposed change... it will remove assaults... so might as well completely remove said assets, also Assaults will be useless because their speed will reflect how much defense they have? Mandos will be better assaults than assaults will be...clean them out now, think about how much smoother the game will run Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6	Posted - 2015.05.29 18:56:00 - [6] - Quote Heimdallr69 wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: demens grimwulff wrote: Sadly that is basically what will happen with this purposed change... it will remove assaults... so might as well completely remove said assets, also Assaults will be useless because their speed will reflect how much defense they have? Mandos will be better assaults than assaults will be...clean them out now, think about how much smoother the game will run While I agree that Commandos and Assaults fulfill similar roles, I have to ask Are you against the principle of basing defense off of mobility? If not, what do you feel needs to happen (assuming the speed changes go through) to make Assaults perform at the same level as Commandos in the slayer role, and superior to Logistics in the slayer role? "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
Scheneighnay McBob Tribal Liberation Force Paramilitary 7	Posted - 2015.05.29 18:57:00 - [7] - Quote Never going to happen: assaults are more or less the mascots of Dust, and they're still fairly unique. For some reason, they'll still be more popular than commandos, despite commandos having always been the better option. Aloha snackbar
7th Son 7 Algintal Core Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.05.29 19:05:00 - [8] - Quote So we should remove a role/play style because there's hypothetically going to be a problem? Hell no. Don't you dare remove my assault suits CCP. The speed changes have not even taken effect yet but we should eliminate assaults? huh...... we have no experience with these new changes, so until then I vote absolutly not. Only your complete and total awareness is needed, nothing else will do. ----- OSHO
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 10	Posted - 2015.05.29 19:09:00 - [9] - Quote For everyone planning on switching from Assault to Commando, I hope you haven't become to reliant upon core locus grenades. Praetoriani Classiarii Templares = PIE Inc, Amarr dedicated Corp Channel for AFW Squads & Orbitals: PIE Ground Control
Heimdallr69 Negative-Feedback. 5	Posted - 2015.05.29 19:09:00 - [10] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Heimdallr69 wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: demens grimwulff wrote: Sadly that is basically what will happen with this purposed change... it will remove assaults... so might as well completely remove said assets, also Assaults will be useless because their speed will reflect how much defense they have? Mandos will be better assaults than assaults will be...clean them out now, think about how much smoother the game will run While I agree that Commandos and Assaults fulfill similar roles, I have to ask Are you against the principle of basing defense off of mobility? If not, what do you feel needs to happen (assuming the speed changes go through) to make Assaults perform at the same level as Commandos in the slayer role, and superior to Logistics in the slayer role? I feel mandos and assaults are to similar of a role so I'd rather keep the slower one as it gives people a reason to use scouts again for speed..the thing is assaults will have similar hp and movement and not a good bonus nor a second weapon so mandos will be taking the "slayer" role..I just thought why not combine the two similar roles to get 1 people are happy with..it adds the speed gap everyone wants, it would give them a dmg bonus and 2 primary weapons, I see this being the best solution that works for everyone Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro

Templar XIII Vherokior Combat Logistics 192	Posted - 2015.05.29 19:33:00 - [11] - Quote Hmmm...I kinda like and don'T like this idea of yours. Don't like maybe just out of pure sentiment for the assault suit. Like because it makes some overall sense to me. The best compromise between these two sentiments would be to give the assault suit two light weapon slots, remove the grenade from him and remove the commando altogether instead. This is something I could whole heartedly support, as the commando always felt a bit too...hermaphroditic.
Cody Sietz Random Gunz Rise Of Legion. 4	Posted - 2015.05.29 19:33:00 - [12] - Quote Wasn't that the plan? Like Legions was planning on doing this already. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6	Posted - 2015.05.29 19:35:00 - [13] - Quote Heimdallr69 wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Heimdallr69 wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: demens grimwulff wrote: Sadly that is basically what will happen with this purposed change... it will remove assaults... so might as well completely remove said assets, also Assaults will be useless because their speed will reflect how much defense they have? Mandos will be better assaults than assaults will be...clean them out now, think about how much smoother the game will run While I agree that Commandos and Assaults fulfill similar roles, I have to ask Are you against the principle of basing defense off of mobility? If not, what do you feel needs to happen (assuming the speed changes go through) to make Assaults perform at the same level as Commandos in the slayer role, and superior to Logistics in the slayer role? I feel mandos and assaults are to similar of a role so I'd rather keep the slower one as it gives people a reason to use scouts again for speed..the thing is assaults will have similar hp and movement and not a good bonus nor a second weapon so mandos will be taking the "slayer" role..I just thought why not combine the two similar roles to get 1 people are happy with..it adds the speed gap everyone wants, it would give them a dmg bonus and 2 primary weapons, I see this being the best solution that works for everyone Do you think there is some way we can perhaps define Assaults as "Attack Role - Relentless Advance - Anti Infantry" and give them a lot of stamina, and then bonuses which appeal to killing infantry, such as damage and some of the existing perks (Gal/Cal need some work, Amarr and Minmatar are pretty solid for anti infantry) and then have Commandos be "Attack Role - Relentless Damage - Anti Vehicle", reload bonus is awesome on light AV weapons and boasts an effect of sustained damage plus the existing damage effect. Similar, but different enough to merit them being different roles. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
Lynn Beck Delta Vanguard 6 2	Posted - 2015.05.29 19:44:00 - [14] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: demens grimwulff wrote: Sadly that is basically what will happen with this purposed change... it will remove assaults... so might as well completely remove said assets, also Assaults will be useless because their speed will reflect how much defense they have? I still find it funny how we're not even taking into consideration each roles' intended combat effectiveness. A logi shouldn't have only a missing sidearm to distinguish it as "not a frontline suit" A scout shouldn't have only low starting HP to deem it as "not a frontline suit"(by this logic though, scouts should have more speed or HP to bring them into line with the HP curve, yes?) Assaults are the premier frontline suit, so why SHOULDN'T they have a higher Speed/HP than other suits, since those are the primary stats for frontlining? Assaults don't have the scanning properties of a Logi or Scout, nor the EQ slots, NOR the mass DPS of the Heavy, NOR the amazing weapon-based bonuses of the Commando(minassault and Amsault are a different story, as they define the assault well, having combat longevity bonuses) Please Ratatti, I was starting to seriously consider coming back as soon as finances and available tech allows, but this sudden derp has made me question whether or not i need to spend any more money into my Ps3 just for DUST. While it may not mean much to you, if this does indeed go through i won't respec, i'll simply take the SSD out of it and put in my PC. General John Ripper -BAM! I'm Emeril Lagasse. This message was approved by the 'Nobody Loved You' Foundation'
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6	Posted - 2015.05.29 19:48:00 - [15] - Quote Given that the assault bonuses currently, are often lackluster, I could agree that they need a superior speed/defense ratio. However I also feel that if the assaults had better bonuses, it would be more acceptable to have this speed reduction. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 10	Posted - 2015.05.29 20:19:00 - [16] - Quote Assaults will still maintain their current sprint speed, just have lower movement speed. Praetoriani Classiarii Templares = PIE Inc, Amarr dedicated Corp Channel for AFW Squads & Orbitals: PIE Ground Control
demens grimwulff Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 380	Posted - 2015.05.29 20:23:00 - [17] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: demens grimwulff wrote: Sadly that is basically what will happen with this purposed change... it will remove assaults... so might as well completely remove said assets, also Assaults will be useless because their speed will reflect how much defense they have? My point, which was completely overlooked in CCP Rat's thread was that, if armor HP is a problem, then we need to revisit the way armor plates stack their negative effects. I have had a counter proposal running through my head for days now and have not typed it up due to lack of "completeness", but it is, in short, based on the following principals : 1) if positive effects give diminishing returns, then negative effects should have compounding exponential returns and not linear ones 2) ferro scale HP buff is out of proportion to the lack of a movement effect 3) standardizing movement speeds by lowering assault base speed removes the one support mechanism that shield tanked speed assaults have: strafing 4) the whole idea of flattening speed in this way is, essentially, over engineering a leaky dam but not plugging the leak At the time of the change there will be little to no reason to maintain assaults if there are better options available to you. Minmando would be, at that point, only slightly slower than min assault, and will have substantially better racials... plus two light weapons... and the logis will have strafing speed + the slots to build whatever you want however you want ETA: post from phone... please excuse grammar and or weird autocorrects/spelling As the archeology of our thought easily shows, man is an invention of recent date. And one perhaps nearing its end
demens grimwulff Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 380	Posted - 2015.05.29 20:25:00 - [18] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Assaults will still maintain their current sprint speed, just have lower movement speed. Which means lower strafing speed, therefore worse survivability. You don't lose a gunfight because of your hp, but because of how much you get hit vs how much you hit your target. Strafing is a vital tool in the bag of the assault... and it will now be given to logis and mandos... As the archeology of our thought easily shows, man is an invention of recent date. And one perhaps nearing its end
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6	Posted - 2015.05.29 20:32:00 - [19] - Quote demens grimwulff wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Assaults will still maintain their current sprint speed, just have lower movement speed. Which means lower strafing speed, therefore worse survivability. You don't lose a gunfight because of your hp, but because of how much you get hit vs how much you hit your target. Strafing is a vital tool in the bag of the assault... and it will now be given to logis and mandos... Except Logistics have lower HP and get hit slightly less than Assaults. Commandos have more HP but are larger and easier to hit. Wouldn't this mean similar survivability between all 3 groups? "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 12	Posted - 2015.05.29 20:38:00 - [20] - Quote EVERYONE CALM DOWN! The assaults will have less walking speed, but sprinting speed and strafing speed will remain the same according to CCP Rattati. Pokey Dravon wrote: Assaults will be useless because their speed will reflect how much defense they have? While I agree this thread is thread is crazy and overreacting, I don't think there's anything wrong with the assault's current speed and HP. Though I don't think reduced walking speed will be a big deal. Cody Sietz wrote: Wasn't that the plan? Like Legions was planning on doing this already. No. Legion is getting rid of commandos, and giving assaults 2 light weapons. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+

demens grimwulff Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 383	Posted - 2015.05.29 20:39:00 - [21] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: demens grimwulff wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Assaults will still maintain their current sprint speed, just have lower movement speed. Which means lower strafing speed, therefore worse survivability. You don't lose a gunfight because of your hp, but because of how much you get hit vs how much you hit your target. Strafing is a vital tool in the bag of the assault... and it will now be given to logis and mandos... Except Logistics have lower HP and get hit slightly less than Assaults. Commandos have more HP but are larger and easier to hit. Wouldn't this mean similar survivability between all 3 groups? No, keep in mind that logis will have higher movement speeds (strafe speeds) than assaults making them less likely to be hit, and base hp will be negated by more overall slots and the cpu/pg to run them. Even if the power core goes into effect and pg/cpu is flattened across all medium suits, the logi will still maintain the slot advantage, allowing for equalization of hp. Mandos might be easier to hit, but hit much harder than those they are fighting, normalizing damage over time if the Mando misses more shots than its enemy. As the archeology of our thought easily shows, man is an invention of recent date. And one perhaps nearing its end
Heimdallr69 Negative-Feedback. 5	Posted - 2015.05.29 20:43:00 - [22] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: demens grimwulff wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Assaults will still maintain their current sprint speed, just have lower movement speed. Which means lower strafing speed, therefore worse survivability. You don't lose a gunfight because of your hp, but because of how much you get hit vs how much you hit your target. Strafing is a vital tool in the bag of the assault... and it will now be given to logis and mandos... Except Logistics have lower HP and get hit slightly less than Assaults. Commandos have more HP but are larger and easier to hit. Wouldn't this mean similar survivability between all 3 groups? Logis will be as fast as current assaults, mandos will be as fast as assaults with way better bonuses...CCP you think sprinting matters? If I want a fast hack I'll use my scout I use my assault for slaying as that's what we decided the assaults role was..If you're gonna nerf the assaults and buff everything else at the same time, just get rid of assaults you're gonna make them useless anyways So get rid of that wasted space Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6	Posted - 2015.05.29 20:47:00 - [23] - Quote demens grimwulff wrote: No, keep in mind that logis will have higher movement speeds (strafe speeds) than assaults making them less likely to be hit, and base hp will be negated by more overall slots and the cpu/pg to run them. Even if the power core goes into effect and pg/cpu is flattened across all medium suits, the logi will still maintain the slot advantage, allowing for equalization of hp. Mandos might be easier to hit, but hit much harder than those they are fighting, normalizing damage over time if the Mando misses more shots than its enemy. As far as I know, Logistics will have exactly the same number of total slots as Assaults. Additionally it is my understanding that Rattati plans to try to make the resources for Assaults and Logistics the same, and then use fitting bonuses to allow them to fit more weapons/equipment depending on the role. So If all of that holds true, Logistics will be incapable of having more HP than Assaults due to inferior base HP. Heimdallr69 wrote: Logis will be as fast as current assaults, mandos will be as fast as assaults with way better bonuses...CCP you think sprinting matters? People who fit Kinkats do. Curious, would you guys feel better about speed reduction if Assaults got a damage perk similar to Commandos? "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
demens grimwulff Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 383	Posted - 2015.05.29 20:48:00 - [24] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: EVERYONE CALM DOWN! The assaults will have less walking speed, but sprinting speed and strafing speed will remain the same according to CCP Rattati. While I agree this thread is thread is crazy and overreacting, I don't think there's anything wrong with the assault's current speed and HP. Though I don't think reduced walking speed will be a big deal. My only concern with your statement is the lack of recognition of the repeated over nerfing of something and then the year delay that is experienced as it is readjusted to get back in line with everything else... or... almost 2 years, in the case of shields. As the archeology of our thought easily shows, man is an invention of recent date. And one perhaps nearing its end
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 12	Posted - 2015.05.29 20:52:00 - [25] - Quote demens grimwulff wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: EVERYONE CALM DOWN! The assaults will have less walking speed, but sprinting speed and strafing speed will remain the same according to CCP Rattati. While I agree this thread is thread is crazy and overreacting, I don't think there's anything wrong with the assault's current speed and HP. Though I don't think reduced walking speed will be a big deal. My only concern with your statement is the lack of recognition of the repeated over nerfing of something and then the year delay that is experienced as it is readjusted to get back in line with everything else... or... almost 2 years, in the case of shields. That might have been the case in the past, but it has not been that way since Rattati took over balancing, and he in fact was the one to undo many of the awful balancing that his predecessors did (for example, the flaylock pistol is actually good now). Rattati posted details about the nerf in his thread, just like he always posts threads detailing his balancing decisions for community discussion and revision. We have access to specifics of the nerf (like the fact that sprint and strafe speeds will remain intact), so there is no reason to be overreacting. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
demens grimwulff Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 383	Posted - 2015.05.29 20:54:00 - [26] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: demens grimwulff wrote: No, keep in mind that logis will have higher movement speeds (strafe speeds) than assaults making them less likely to be hit, and base hp will be negated by more overall slots and the cpu/pg to run them. Even if the power core goes into effect and pg/cpu is flattened across all medium suits, the logi will still maintain the slot advantage, allowing for equalization of hp. Mandos might be easier to hit, but hit much harder than those they are fighting, normalizing damage over time if the Mando misses more shots than its enemy. As far as I know, Logistics will have exactly the same number of total slots as Assaults. Additionally it is my understanding that Rattati plans to try to make the resources for Assaults and Logistics the same, and then use fitting bonuses to allow them to fit more weapons/equipment depending on the role. So If all of that holds true, Logistics will be incapable of having more HP than Assaults due to inferior base HP. Heimdallr69 wrote: Logis will be as fast as current assaults, mandos will be as fast as assaults with way better bonuses...CCP you think sprinting matters? People who fit Kinkats do. Curious, would you guys feel better about speed reduction if Assaults got a damage perk similar to Commandos? As far as the tiericide you're discussing, it is hard to say without everything laid out, plain and simple, but I think it is still shooting the load in the wrong direction. The stacking of plates without a real impact to overall speed decrease is a problem... pretty much, ferro scales. Not many non-gal or amarr assaults run regular plates, and even then, they don't have the speed currently to complain that they are two fast. The suits that will be hit by this aren't suits meant to be outright armor tanked... namely the caldari and minmatar, which only use armor because shields are to damn weak. The problem can be solved with a shield buff and an adjustment to stacking plates, making them more burdensome the more you put on. As far as kincats are concerned, they are good if you aren't already being shot at... but they don't change survivability as drastically as strafe speed. If assaults got a damage bonus to light weapons, I would be slightly more accepting, but would still be extremely worried without knowing the totality of the changes. As the archeology of our thought easily shows, man is an invention of recent date. And one perhaps nearing its end
Krixus Flux Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 710	Posted - 2015.05.29 20:59:00 - [27] - Quote CCP just pissed off Heim. "You know what, **** it!! You wanna gimp it?? Get rid of it!!" Saying what's on people's minds
demens grimwulff Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 386	Posted - 2015.05.29 21:00:00 - [28] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: demens grimwulff wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: EVERYONE CALM DOWN! The assaults will have less walking speed, but sprinting speed and strafing speed will remain the same according to CCP Rattati. While I agree this thread is thread is crazy and overreacting, I don't think there's anything wrong with the assault's current speed and HP. Though I don't think reduced walking speed will be a big deal. My only concern with your statement is the lack of recognition of the repeated over nerfing of something and then the year delay that is experienced as it is readjusted to get back in line with everything else... or... almost 2 years, in the case of shields. That might have been the case in the past, but it has not been that way since Rattati took over balancing, and he in fact was the one to undo many of the awful balancing that his predecessors did (for example, the flaylock pistol is actually good now). Rattati posted detais about the nerf in his thread, just like he always posts threads detailing his balancing decisions. We have access to specifics of the nerf (like the fact that sprint and strafe speeds will remain intact), so there is no reason to be overreacting. One person's track record does not outweigh the record of the whole conglomerate... if that were true, Enron would probably still be in business. Without seeing everything completely worked out, I think saying that strafing speed will be maintained is hopelessly optimistic... I have yet to deal with Rattati yet, but I have a feeling the numbers and sayings won't translate into reality. Excuse the tinfoilery, but we're just trying to point out flaws in the thought process that could be addressed elsewhere... Heim and I won't bj the opinion just because of who said it, and our points are valid and do need addressing... and not some handwaving rhetoric. As the archeology of our thought easily shows, man is an invention of recent date. And one perhaps nearing its end
Heimdallr69 Negative-Feedback. 5	Posted - 2015.05.29 21:06:00 - [29] - Quote Krixus Flux wrote: CCP just pissed off Heim. "You know what, **** it!! You wanna gimp it?? Get rid of it!!" I've been gimped for 2 years and now when assaults are in a good place they want to go and over do it...Like I said buff the others and leave assaults alone or nerf assaults and leave the rest where they are...it's gonna play out as a huge nerf that wasn't even needed. I'm trying to tell people what will happen but hey I tried to warn them Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
sir RAVEN WING 3	Posted - 2015.05.29 21:20:00 - [30] - Quote demens grimwulff wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Assaults will still maintain their current sprint speed, just have lower movement speed. Which means lower strafing speed, therefore worse survivability. You don't lose a gunfight because of your hp, but because of how much you get hit vs how much you hit your target. Strafing is a vital tool in the bag of the assault... and it will now be given to logis and mandos... This is foolish. Assaults rely on killing ability, pure and simple. When engaged they grab cover, and shoot. Commandos rely on their two weapons to take a target out before they are killed. Scout rely on stealth, when engage they strafe to avoid their fragile frame getting destroyed. Sents rely on raw HP, they rush when engaged. Logistics rely on their killer. When engaged they can't really do much. Now, crying about how you can no longer take full advantage of horrid hit detection does not work. *Official Forum Bird* "Agony is the body cleansing itself." - Viktor Revon

Onesimus Tarsus is-a-Corporation 3	Posted - 2015.05.29 21:24:00 - [31] - Quote Get rid of all suit classes and make one frame that has the potential to carry any and all stats depending on gear and mods... Easy peasy pekineesy. .emag nug ym tpecxe gnihtyreve sexif gnikamhctam RDK
demens grimwulff Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 387	Posted - 2015.05.29 21:34:00 - [32] - Quote sir RAVEN WING wrote: This is foolish. Assaults rely on killing ability, pure and simple. When engaged they grab cover, and shoot. Commandos rely on their two weapons to take a target out before they are killed. Scout rely on stealth, when engage they strafe to avoid their fragile frame getting destroyed. Sents rely on raw HP, they rush when engaged. Logistics rely on their killer. When engaged they can't really do much. Now, crying about how you can no longer take full advantage of horrid hit detection does not work. Horrid hit detection or lack of accuracy? Considering that I only run into hit detection issues when the characters are skipping all over the screen, leads me to believe the cries of bad hit detection only come from latency issues and not actual hit detection. We aren't saying Dust will die or that the world is caving in, but what we are saying is that the viability of the assault suit will be lowered below that of the other suits in its class, and that the problems lie elsewhere... this isn't the nerf he is looking for, but it is sadly the one he has found. As the archeology of our thought easily shows, man is an invention of recent date. And one perhaps nearing its end
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6	Posted - 2015.05.29 21:35:00 - [33] - Quote demens grimwulff wrote: As far as the tiericide you're discussing, it is hard to say without everything laid out, plain and simple, but I think it is still shooting the load in the wrong direction. The stacking of plates without a real impact to overall speed decrease is a problem... pretty much, ferro scales. Not many non-gal or amarr assaults run regular plates, and even then, they don't have the speed currently to complain that they are too fast. The suits that will be hit by this aren't suits meant to be outright armor tanked... namely the caldari and minmatar, which only use armor because shields are to damn weak. The problem can be solved with a shield buff and an adjustment to stacking plates, making them more burdensome the more you put on. As far as kincats are concerned, they are good if you aren't already being shot at... but they don't change survivability as drastically as strafe speed. If assaults got a damage bonus to light weapons, I would be slightly more accepting, but would still be extremely worried without knowing the totality of the changes. Fair points, and I completely agree, we have no idea how it'll ultimately play out so freaking out now is....well pointless. Lets see if I can explain my thoughts clearly.... A dead Logi is a useless Logi. No amount of support ability is useful if you're taking a dirt nap, so the Logistics has to be survivable to do it its job properly. Lets also take a look at what defense really means for an Assault player. What does defense actually buy you? It's time. The more damage you soak up, the more time you have to kill the enemy before you run out of HP. Basically when you think about it, whoever has the better ratio of defense and offense will win an engagement. As a very rough example (just assume eHP here takes into account total damage received after mitigation from strafing, I'm speaking of defense in a very broad sense) Player A 110 eHP 100 DPS Player B 100 eHP 110 DPS If these two met head to head, they would likely kill each other at the same time. Simple enough. So current Assaults would be player A. With the proposed changes the total defense would drop from 110 to 100. However, if we give it a damage bonus, it would boost its attack to 110, and now the new Assaults would be like Player B, and thus overalll little net change in overall performance. Lets also assume Current Logistics have 90 eHP (lower HP, slower) and 100 DPS (same as current assaults). Speed increase will bring them up to 100eHP but no change in DPS. So similar survivability to proposed Assaults. Player C 100 eHP 100 DPS So in this case, Proposed Logi (Player C) will still lose to Proposed Assaults (Player B) due to similar defenses, but inferior attack power since it will die before it can do 100eHP worth of damage. So Net Result: Logis are more difficult to kill, but still lose against an Assault Assaults maintain similar levels of combat effectiveness by shifting advantage from defense and more onto offense. Does that make any sense at all? "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
Heimdallr69 Negative-Feedback. 5	Posted - 2015.05.29 21:41:00 - [34] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: demens grimwulff wrote: As far as the tiericide you're discussing, it is hard to say without everything laid out, plain and simple, but I think it is still shooting the load in the wrong direction. The stacking of plates without a real impact to overall speed decrease is a problem... pretty much, ferro scales. Not many non-gal or amarr assaults run regular plates, and even then, they don't have the speed currently to complain that they are too fast. The suits that will be hit by this aren't suits meant to be outright armor tanked... namely the caldari and minmatar, which only use armor because shields are to damn weak. The problem can be solved with a shield buff and an adjustment to stacking plates, making them more burdensome the more you put on. As far as kincats are concerned, they are good if you aren't already being shot at... but they don't change survivability as drastically as strafe speed. If assaults got a damage bonus to light weapons, I would be slightly more accepting, but would still be extremely worried without knowing the totality of the changes. Fair points, and I completely agree, we have no idea how it'll ultimately play out so freaking out now is....well pointless. Lets see if I can explain my thoughts clearly.... A dead Logi is a useless Logi. No amount of support ability is useful if you're taking a dirt nap, so the Logistics has to be survivable to do it its job properly. Lets also take a look at what defense really means for an Assault player. What does defense actually buy you? It's time. The more damage you soak up, the more time you have to kill the enemy before you run out of HP. Basically when you think about it, whoever has the better ratio of defense and offense will win an engagement. As a very rough example (just assume eHP here takes into account total damage received after mitigation from strafing, I'm speaking of defense in a very broad sense) Player A 110 eHP 100 DPS Player B 100 eHP 110 DPS If these two met head to head, they would likely kill each other at the same time. Simple enough. So current Assaults would be player A. With the proposed changes the total defense would drop from 110 to 100. However, if we give it a damage bonus, it would boost its attack to 110, and now the new Assaults would be like Player B, and thus overalll little net change in overall performance. Lets also assume Current Logistics have 90 eHP (lower HP, slower) and 100 DPS (same as current assaults). Speed increase will bring them up to 100eHP but no change in DPS. So similar survivability to proposed Assaults. Player C 100 eHP 100 DPS So in this case, Proposed Logi (Player C) will still lose to Proposed Assaults (Player B) due to similar defenses, but inferior attack power since it will die before it can do 100eHP worth of damage. So Net Result: Logis are more difficult to kill, but still lose against an Assault Assaults maintain similar levels of combat effectiveness by shifting advantage from defense and more onto offense. Does that make any sense at all? Yeah I just want to voice my opinion instead of waiting for it to happen then wait 2-6 months for a fix..my assaults have sucked for 2 years now it's gonna go down the crapper. Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 12	Posted - 2015.05.29 21:43:00 - [35] - Quote demens grimwulff wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: demens grimwulff wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: EVERYONE CALM DOWN! The assaults will have less walking speed, but sprinting speed and strafing speed will remain the same according to CCP Rattati. While I agree this thread is thread is crazy and overreacting, I don't think there's anything wrong with the assault's current speed and HP. Though I don't think reduced walking speed will be a big deal. My only concern with your statement is the lack of recognition of the repeated over nerfing of something and then the year delay that is experienced as it is readjusted to get back in line with everything else... or... almost 2 years, in the case of shields. That might have been the case in the past, but it has not been that way since Rattati took over balancing, and he in fact was the one to undo many of the awful balancing that his predecessors did (for example, the flaylock pistol is actually good now). Rattati posted detais about the nerf in his thread, just like he always posts threads detailing his balancing decisions. We have access to specifics of the nerf (like the fact that sprint and strafe speeds will remain intact), so there is no reason to be overreacting. One person's track record does not outweigh the record of the whole conglomerate... if that were true, Enron would probably still be in business. Without seeing everything completely worked out, I think saying that strafing speed will be maintained is hopelessly optimistic... I have yet to deal with Rattati yet, but I have a feeling the numbers and sayings won't translate into reality. Excuse the tinfoilery, but we're just trying to point out flaws in the thought process that could be addressed elsewhere... Heim and I won't bj the opinion just because of who said it, and our points are valid and do need addressing... and not some handwaving rhetoric. That one person's track record in balancing DOES outweigh the history when that one person is the ONLY ONE LEFT doing balancing. CCP is not found guilty of committing accounting fraud or any other criminal activity; your problem with CCP is a matter of their reputation, but Enron's was a matter of legal problems (and legal problems aren't erased by fixing one's reputation the way Rattati did for CCP's balancing of Dust), so this Enron analogy you whipped out is pretty ludicrous, and its even more silly given how there was no figure analogous to Rattati that took over to rectify the wrongdoing (the company just filed for bankruptcy and liquidated its assets). This is like a US American distrusting a British person because of past oppression from colonial days. Not all histories are equally relevant, especially when comparing far past vs recent past. I often disagree with his decisions, but from countless balancing passes with hotfixes I have learned Rattati has consistently kept his word. He starts with proposals which he then submits to the community for feedback, and based on the feedback he usually adjusts it. Once everything is finalized, he posts an announcement about what is going to change, and his announcements do not lie, or in anyway try to misrepresent what he actually wants to do. This has been the status quo for many months now, and there is no reason to doubt this balance pass will be any different in regards to truthfulness. This is not to say that the plans in regard to the assault speeds are finalized, because they're not, but at the current state of the debate, and Rattati 's position (which I should point out has gotten less severe for assaults) is no cause for this ridiculous and irresponsible panic-mongering I'm seeing. Saying you doubt that even finalized numbers will translate into reality is basically an accusation of lying, and also unfounded by the history of his hotfixes. Even the old CCP balancing team never made it a habit of posting hotfix notes and patch notes that were blatantly untrue (and if they are wrong by accidents due to bugs, they try and fix it). I get being a disillusioned veteran (which I am), but this is just unfounded BS. Walking speed reduction for assaults necessitating the complete removal of assaults is NOT a valid point, and frankly is a wild and frankly absurd leap in logic. I'm out of this paranoid thread. Peace. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
demens grimwulff Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 387	Posted - 2015.05.29 21:48:00 - [36] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Does that make any sense at all? Pokey, it does, but I think it is still missing the point. I agree with your points, but I think there are issues you aren't addressing... now please excuse my brevity as I am about to leave work, but I felt I needed to toss this out there for you to think about (and I hate letting a good conversation die due to lack of repeated engagement)... We are discussing all assaults as if they are one thing. They aren't. Once again, we have to look at them individually and who the nerf will hit the most... the real survivability of the already lowest ehp in class min assault and next to lowest, cal assault (considering the higher shield is less effective than higher armor), will be hit the hardest by this proposed change. I hate to harp on it, but the change can be done without altering the speeds of these suits... Also, I think the discussion is worth having. We are all, essentially, invested in this... whether it be just time, or money and time, we are all invested. I think all of the opinions should be heard and discussed in a public forum like this, and I think critical analysis should be done... which it appears Rattati is performing, but I am not sure if he is just applying a band aid or fixing the problem... well, actually, I feel he is band aiding it, and altering the suits for the worst, but that is my opinion. As the archeology of our thought easily shows, man is an invention of recent date. And one perhaps nearing its end
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 10	Posted - 2015.05.29 21:57:00 - [37] - Quote Strafing as a primary survival tactic is cool in arcade shooters which Dust kind of is I guess but I'd prefer if it was more tactical, less about strafing more about coordinating movement and being in the right place at the right time. Praetoriani Classiarii Templares = PIE Inc, Amarr dedicated Corp Channel for AFW Squads & Orbitals: PIE Ground Control
demens grimwulff Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 388	Posted - 2015.05.29 21:59:00 - [38] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: That one person's track record in balancing DOES outweigh the history when that one person is the ONLY ONE LEFT doing balancing. CCP is not found guilty of committing accounting fraud or any other criminal activity; your problem with CCP is a matter of their reputation, but Enron's was a matter of legal problems (and legal problems aren't erased by fixing one's reputation the way Rattati did for CCP's balancing of Dust), so this Enron analogy you whipped out is pretty ludicrous, and its even more silly given how there was no figure analogous to Rattati that took over to rectify the wrongdoing (the company just filed for bankruptcy and liquidated its assets). This is like a US American distrusting a British person because of past oppression from colonial days. Not all histories are equally relevant, especially when comparing far past vs recent past. I often disagree with his decisions, but from countless balancing passes with hotfixes I have learned Rattati has consistently kept his word. He starts with proposals which he then submits to the community for feedback, and based on the feedback he usually adjusts it. Once everything is finalized, he posts an announcement about what is going to change, and his announcements do not lie, or in anyway try to misrepresent what he actually wants to do. This has been the status quo for many months now, and there is no reason to doubt this balance pass will be any different in regards to truthfulness. This is not to say that the plans in regard to the assault speeds are finalized, because they're not, but at the current state of the debate, and Rattati 's position (which I should point out has gotten less severe for assaults) is no cause for this ridiculous and irresponsible panic-mongering I'm seeing. Saying you doubt that even finalized numbers will translate into reality is basically an accusation of lying, and also unfounded by the history of his hotfixes. Even the old CCP balancing team never made it a habit of posting hotfix notes and patch notes that were blatantly untrue (and if they are wrong by accidents due to bugs, they try and fix it). I get being a disillusioned veteran (which I am), but this is just unfounded BS. Walking speed reduction for assaults necessitating the complete removal of assaults is NOT a valid point, and frankly is a wild and frankly absurd leap in logic. I'm out of this paranoid thread. Peace. holy carp the nested quotes got real. Now, all analogies are not 1 to 1 and mine was obviously taken to the absurd for a reason. Enron crashed for multiple reasons... wrongful investment, shuffling debts, and not rolling out with real services. However, to say that someone wasn't actually working to bring cash flow in is inherently wrong... specifically, energy shuffling in California that led to the ever famous rolling blackouts. I think the same could be said about your analogy, however, like all analogies, nothing is 1 to 1 and it is around the same factor. I will take your trust of Rattati as a sign of progress, but I still think the point needs to be made that the changes are not effecting the root causes of the problems he sees, in this case. As the archeology of our thought easily shows, man is an invention of recent date. And one perhaps nearing its end
Georgia Xavier Y.A.M.A.H No Context 585	Posted - 2015.05.29 22:03:00 - [39] - Quote That is rather sad and painful to hear to be honest, I worked with my assault suit for so long now and to see it go would sting quite a bit Click me
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6	Posted - 2015.05.29 22:10:00 - [40] - Quote demens grimwulff wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Does that make any sense at all? Pokey, it does, but I think it is still missing the point. I agree with your points, but I think there are issues you aren't addressing... now please excuse my brevity as I am about to leave work, but I felt I needed to toss this out there for you to think about (and I hate letting a good conversation die due to lack of repeated engagement)... We are discussing all assaults as if they are one thing. They aren't. Once again, we have to look at them individually and who the nerf will hit the most... the real survivability of the already lowest ehp in class min assault and next to lowest, cal assault (considering the higher shield is less effective than higher armor), will be hit the hardest by this proposed change. I hate to harp on it, but the change can be done without altering the speeds of these suits... Also, I think the discussion is worth having. We are all, essentially, invested in this... whether it be just time, or money and time, we are all invested. I think all of the opinions should be heard and discussed in a public forum like this, and I think critical analysis should be done... which it appears Rattati is performing, but I am not sure if he is just applying a band aid or fixing the problem... well, actually, I feel he is band aiding it, and altering the suits for the worse, but that is my opinion. Well, in my personal experience thus far, the Minmatar Assault seems to over perform compared to the others, but again that's my anecdotal experience, I'm not sure what the hard data says about it. That aside, I feel the concept in general is sound, but if there are issues within the race after the fact, that can always be tweaked with changes to HP, fitting, ect. But again that's kind of one of those things you have to play test to figure out. I mean here is the deal.....something had to happen to help the Logi's out, either it had to be more speed, or more HP. We've had More HP in the past and it was a disaster, so I think Rattati was trying to avoid that as much as he could. I think a glaring issue is that the Assaults never really had anything unique about them aside from a really good HP/Speed ratio. Should they have gotten the speed nerf? Well, I personally like the cleanliness of the Defense to Mobility line, it provides a good baseline for future content, so in general I support it. However, if the Assaults are going to lose their really good Defense/Mobility ratio, they need something else that defines them and makes them unique, otherwise they'll just be a watered down version of some other role. That's primarily why Im asking people "Lets assume the speed thing happens (cause it probably will). What would you like to see happen to the Assault to give it that unique and distinctive flair?" Also I just have to say, among the sea of people going on emotional fits, I really appreciate your ability to have a calm and rational discussion. So thank you for that. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net

Heimdallr69 Negative-Feedback. 5	Posted - 2015.05.29 22:25:00 - [41] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: demens grimwulff wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Does that make any sense at all? Pokey, it does, but I think it is still missing the point. I agree with your points, but I think there are issues you aren't addressing... now please excuse my brevity as I am about to leave work, but I felt I needed to toss this out there for you to think about (and I hate letting a good conversation die due to lack of repeated engagement)... We are discussing all assaults as if they are one thing. They aren't. Once again, we have to look at them individually and who the nerf will hit the most... the real survivability of the already lowest ehp in class min assault and next to lowest, cal assault (considering the higher shield is less effective than higher armor), will be hit the hardest by this proposed change. I hate to harp on it, but the change can be done without altering the speeds of these suits... Also, I think the discussion is worth having. We are all, essentially, invested in this... whether it be just time, or money and time, we are all invested. I think all of the opinions should be heard and discussed in a public forum like this, and I think critical analysis should be done... which it appears Rattati is performing, but I am not sure if he is just applying a band aid or fixing the problem... well, actually, I feel he is band aiding it, and altering the suits for the worse, but that is my opinion. Well, in my personal experience thus far, the Minmatar Assault seems to over perform compared to the others, but again that's my anecdotal experience, I'm not sure what the hard data says about it. That aside, I feel the concept in general is sound, but if there are issues within the race after the fact, that can always be tweaked with changes to HP, fitting, ect. But again that's kind of one of those things you have to play test to figure out. I mean here is the deal.....something had to happen to help the Logi's out, either it had to be more speed, or more HP. We've had More HP in the past and it was a disaster, so I think Rattati was trying to avoid that as much as he could. I think a glaring issue is that the Assaults never really had anything unique about them aside from a really good HP/Speed ratio. Should they have gotten the speed nerf? Well, I personally like the cleanliness of the Defense to Mobility line, it provides a good baseline for future content, so in general I support it. However, if the Assaults are going to lose their really good Defense/Mobility ratio, they need something else that defines them and makes them unique, otherwise they'll just be a watered down version of some other role. That's primarily why Im asking people "Lets assume the speed thing happens (cause it probably will). What would you like to see happen to the Assault to give it that unique and distinctive flair?" Also I just have to say, among the sea of people going on emotional fits, I really appreciate your ability to have a calm and rational discussion. So thank you for that. I had surgery Tuesday and still doped up, I apologize if I've been a ****, I'm listening to the points and yours are the best so far..just really frustrated and in pain Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6	Posted - 2015.05.29 22:39:00 - [42] - Quote Heimdallr69 wrote: I had surgery Tuesday and still doped up, I apologize if I've been a **, I'm listening to the points and yours are the best so far..just really frustrated and in pain Awww man, take it easy and feel better soon alright? Hopefully we can all come up with a solution which makes everyone as happy as possible. "That little st Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
Dreis ShadowWeaver 0uter.Heaven 4	Posted - 2015.05.29 23:04:00 - [43] - Quote demens grimwulff wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Strafing as a primary survival tactic is cool in arcade shooters which Dust kind of is I guess but I'd prefer if it was more tactical, less about strafing more about coordinating movement and being in the right place at the right time. Both of which take high movement speed... The latter is more about sprint speed than movement speed. Creator of the 'Nova Knifers United' channel My Minja Blog Caldari blood, Matari heart <3
Denchlad 7 Dead Man's Game 2	Posted - 2015.05.29 23:07:00 - [44] - Quote I respec'd last night and damn nearly didnt spec back into Assaults. I'll almost certainly be scouting in the future. :( Choo choo chooooo, lets all fck a blender. Dench's Thrift Shop* <-- WIP
Lightning35 Delta514 48TH SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCE 530	Posted - 2015.05.29 23:08:00 - [45] - Quote WHAT IN YOUR RIGHT MIND? HHHHEEEELLLLLLLLSSSS TO THE NOOOO! 48th Special Operations Force Twitter-@48SOF
demens grimwulff Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 393	Posted - 2015.05.29 23:24:00 - [46] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Well, in my personal experience thus far, the Minmatar Assault seems to over perform compared to the others, but again that's my anecdotal experience, I'm not sure what the hard data says about it. That aside, I feel the concept in general is sound, but if there are issues within the race after the fact, that can always be tweaked with changes to HP, fitting, ect. But again that's kind of one of those things you have to play test to figure out. I mean here is the deal.....something had to happen to help the Logi's out, either it had to be more speed, or more HP. We've had More HP in the past and it was a disaster, so I think Rattati was trying to avoid that as much as he could. I think a glaring issue is that the Assaults never really had anything unique about them aside from a really good HP/Speed ratio. Should they have gotten the speed nerf? Well, I personally like the cleanliness of the Defense to Mobility line, it provides a good baseline for future content, so in general I support it. However, if the Assaults are going to lose their really good Defense/Mobility ratio, they need something else that defines them and makes them unique, otherwise they'll just be a watered down version of some other role. That's primarily why Im asking people "Lets assume the speed thing happens (cause it probably will). What would you like to see happen to the Assault to give it that unique and distinctive flair?" Also I just have to say, among the sea of people going on emotional fits, I really appreciate your ability to have a calm and rational discussion. So thank you for that. See, and I look at it from someone who has played Minmatar Assault from day one. Having this discussion, say, several years ago, would have been impossible as Min Assault was the weakest assault out of the bunch... yes, if played right, it could be really strong back in the day (i.e. Regynum, Agriote, etc), but it was never the "shining star" of the assault fits. Then... something changed, and it is the FOTM and omg it is OP and needs a speed nerf. I think this can be traced back to the introduction of the "alternate" plates, and their lack of a real decrease in movement speed vs the hp bonuses applied. As well, people at that time had been crying for a serious buff to armor (because, lets be real, the original armor plates were garbage) and when it was given, shields became a second thought... as well, shields suffered many losses on the buff train, but that is neither here nor there. As an aside, I can remember points in time when I was the only min assault I ever saw in the game... but now we're having an opposite discussion due to some extraneous factor. I feel, therefore, knowing the history of the suit, it becomes clear where the fortunes really changed, and that was when we received the alternate plates... with little or no downside to being used, and then those very plates got buffed again (note: at the time, scouts could more effectively use the armor plates, and they became the "OMG OP" suit of the month... which actually lasted almost half a year, as I remember). This is why I am proposing a change in the way the plates stack, and, an overall change to shields. I think this is a more viable solution than changing the core role of the suits. If I had to take the hit, I would say more damage would be required... I, honestly, see the assault being lost in the sauce unless they impose something heavy on the logi suits... i.e. all equipment must be filled, and you're total pg/cpu will be lowered, or else we will, once again, see the rain of the logi slayer. Any time; I have honestly enjoyed this back-and-forth and I am happy to have these discussions. Generally I will play devil's advocate, regardless of the scenario, because I feel they usually lack a coherent voice in the discussion... I remember the furor that appeared after the tankening happened and how high and mighty the tanks became... almost, essentially, saying the tank should be the master race in the game. I can understand why some get emotional... no one wants to feel like they lost so much time working up to getting good at something, even if it has no real world impact, and then have that taken away due to the possibility of it being changed towards obsolescence... that is basic human psychology. I just hope that the changes are for the better... as I only left this game, originally, after it became unplayable due to the drastic and ridiculous nerfs and buffs. As the archeology of our thought easily shows, man is an invention of recent date. And one perhaps nearing its end
demens grimwulff Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 393	Posted - 2015.05.29 23:25:00 - [47] - Quote Denchlad 7 wrote: I respec'd last night and damn nearly didnt spec back into Assaults. I'll almost certainly be scouting in the future. :( Yea, I have my trusty cal scout suit... regardless of how paper thin it is... As the archeology of our thought easily shows, man is an invention of recent date. And one perhaps nearing its end
Roy Ventus Axis of Chaos 1	Posted - 2015.05.29 23:28:00 - [48] - Quote Commandos and Assaults have never occupied the same role. Simply because both can play a SIMILAR offensive role, doesn't mean they're the same. Commandos, while stacked with defensive capabilities, are by all means strictly offensive units designed to give out the best firepower but at the expense of mobility, flexibility, and supportive capabilities. Assaults are in the end the core of conventional warfare in New Eden. Running around with Commandos trying to play the Assault role would be like asking for a loss. They simply can't Running from objective to objective? Effectively covering a perimeter? They can't even adjust fast enough for a highly mobile strike. I'm not downing Commandos but they're purpose is much more limited than an Assault, however they're still important for use in offensive maneuvers, as they should be. The only damn unit that has come close to being an effective Assault is the Logistics, and it was arguably a much better assault than the assault... arguably. Scouts lack the versatility of the Assault as well as the defenses BUT they make some damn good ninjas/rogues. They're supposed to hit hard, move fast, and shatter like their ass is made of glass. Same with the actual Heavy... who're more annoying than anything when packing non Heavy-weapons. You can bomb them and out maneuver them, but they can take a lot of health and ammo... I'm on a tangent, but look. Stop downplaying Assaults. They might need a fix but ain't no way the Assault Role is useless. "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." http://royventus.tumblr.com
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6	Posted - 2015.05.30 01:41:00 - [49] - Quote demens grimwulff wrote: If I had to take the hit, I would say more damage would be required... I, honestly, see the assault being lost in the sauce unless they impose something heavy on the logi suits... i.e. all equipment must be filled, and you're total pg/cpu will be lowered, or else we will, once again, see the rain of the logi slayer. For the sake of not filling the page with more quotes, I just grabbed this snippit Very valid points again. I will admit that I have not played Minmatar Assault in a serious capacity so my opinion on its history isn't worth much. Regardless, I don't want to see certain suits get screwed because of this, so future testing will see if there are outliers and I think adjustments can be made accordingly. Back to thoughts on bonuses in general, I kinda wanted to get your guys thoughts on this. I just kinda dropped some bonuses in there to get the conversation going, so if you have ideas, by all means speak up! https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NpPu4PQmGuUNa-WfSb-8krX7G7jMV8T6juaEwxP7_jM/edit?usp=sharing "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 10	Posted - 2015.05.30 01:48:00 - [50] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: demens grimwulff wrote: If I had to take the hit, I would say more damage would be required... I, honestly, see the assault being lost in the sauce unless they impose something heavy on the logi suits... i.e. all equipment must be filled, and you're total pg/cpu will be lowered, or else we will, once again, see the rain of the logi slayer. For the sake of not filling the page with more quotes, I just grabbed this snippit Very valid points again. I will admit that I have not played Minmatar Assault in a serious capacity so my opinion on its history isn't worth much. Regardless, I don't want to see certain suits get screwed because of this, so future testing will see if there are outliers and I think adjustments can be made accordingly. Back to thoughts on bonuses in general, I kinda wanted to get your guys thoughts on this. I just kinda dropped some bonuses in there to get the conversation going, so if you have ideas, by all means speak up! https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NpPu4PQmGuUNa-WfSb-8krX7G7jMV8T6juaEwxP7_jM/edit?usp=sharing I am way too good in an Assault M-1 than I should be when I use it. Its pretty OP. IMO, I think a good step towards reducing the likelihood of slayer Logis as well as Slayer Scouts which I think could also make a come back, would be to have an increased armor plate speed penalty for Logis, and an even greater armor plate speed penalty for Scouts. If X is the % speed penalty, I am thinking X+2% for Logi, and X+4% for scouts. Those are rough numbers that can be adjusted, but that gets my main point across. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.

Heimdallr69 Negative-Feedback. 5	Posted - 2015.05.30 01:52:00 - [51] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: demens grimwulff wrote: If I had to take the hit, I would say more damage would be required... I, honestly, see the assault being lost in the sauce unless they impose something heavy on the logi suits... i.e. all equipment must be filled, and you're total pg/cpu will be lowered, or else we will, once again, see the rain of the logi slayer. For the sake of not filling the page with more quotes, I just grabbed this snippit Very valid points again. I will admit that I have not played Minmatar Assault in a serious capacity so my opinion on its history isn't worth much. Regardless, I don't want to see certain suits get screwed because of this, so future testing will see if there are outliers and I think adjustments can be made accordingly. Back to thoughts on bonuses in general, I kinda wanted to get your guys thoughts on this. I just kinda dropped some bonuses in there to get the conversation going, so if you have ideas, by all means speak up! https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NpPu4PQmGuUNa-WfSb-8krX7G7jMV8T6juaEwxP7_jM/edit?usp=sharing Yeah it looks good, gal bonus should increase ar range =ƒÿë like 1% per lvl or something Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6	Posted - 2015.05.30 01:53:00 - [52] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: demens grimwulff wrote: If I had to take the hit, I would say more damage would be required... I, honestly, see the assault being lost in the sauce unless they impose something heavy on the logi suits... i.e. all equipment must be filled, and you're total pg/cpu will be lowered, or else we will, once again, see the rain of the logi slayer. For the sake of not filling the page with more quotes, I just grabbed this snippit Very valid points again. I will admit that I have not played Minmatar Assault in a serious capacity so my opinion on its history isn't worth much. Regardless, I don't want to see certain suits get screwed because of this, so future testing will see if there are outliers and I think adjustments can be made accordingly. Back to thoughts on bonuses in general, I kinda wanted to get your guys thoughts on this. I just kinda dropped some bonuses in there to get the conversation going, so if you have ideas, by all means speak up! https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NpPu4PQmGuUNa-WfSb-8krX7G7jMV8T6juaEwxP7_jM/edit?usp=sharing I am way too good in an Assault M-1 than I should be when I use it. Its pretty OP. IMO, I think a good step towards reducing the likelihood of slayer Logis as well as Slayer Scouts which I think could also make a come back, would be to have an increased armor plate speed penalty for Logis, and an even greater armor plate speed penalty for Scouts. If X is the % speed penalty, I am thinking X+2% for Logi, and X+4% for scouts. Those are rough numbers that can be adjusted, but that gets my main point across. Or just give Assaults the bonuses they need to be clearly the best slayers rather than punishing others for wanting to stay alive ^_^ "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
demens grimwulff Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 393	Posted - 2015.05.30 01:57:00 - [53] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: demens grimwulff wrote: If I had to take the hit, I would say more damage would be required... I, honestly, see the assault being lost in the sauce unless they impose something heavy on the logi suits... i.e. all equipment must be filled, and you're total pg/cpu will be lowered, or else we will, once again, see the rain of the logi slayer. For the sake of not filling the page with more quotes, I just grabbed this snippit Very valid points again. I will admit that I have not played Minmatar Assault in a serious capacity so my opinion on its history isn't worth much. Regardless, I don't want to see certain suits get screwed because of this, so future testing will see if there are outliers and I think adjustments can be made accordingly. Back to thoughts on bonuses in general, I kinda wanted to get your guys thoughts on this. I just kinda dropped some bonuses in there to get the conversation going, so if you have ideas, by all means speak up! https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NpPu4PQmGuUNa-WfSb-8krX7G7jMV8T6juaEwxP7_jM/edit?usp=sharing I will look over it tomorrow when I am not drinking... it is NF's first drinking night ;D Min assault op when alcohol. Can't follow with eyes ;.; As the archeology of our thought easily shows, man is an invention of recent date. And one perhaps nearing its end
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 10	Posted - 2015.05.30 03:26:00 - [54] - Quote I mean, I had made a thread a long time ago with a spitballed idea of making Commandos more suppressive (higher magazine count, increased splash radius on mass driver for MinMando, stuff like that) and Assaults taking over the damage role but, yanno how people are. It's actually sort of hilarious, when you think about it. Assaults came first (one of the original four roles) and then Commando came in...... and no-one said, "What's the commandos role?" the question became, "What's the Assault's role?" So, the irony is that the Assault was here long before the Commando but the introduction of the commando is what, somehow, caused the Assault to lose it's dedicated offensive role. Design a Skin Challenge POLL (Vote Now!)
Scheneighnay McBob Tribal Liberation Force Paramilitary 7	Posted - 2015.05.30 03:34:00 - [55] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: I mean, I had made a thread a long time ago with a spitballed idea of making Commandos more suppressive (higher magazine count, increased splash radius on mass driver for MinMando, stuff like that) and Assaults taking over the damage role but, yanno how people are. It's actually sort of hilarious, when you think about it. Assaults came first (one of the original four roles) and then Commando came in...... and no-one said, "What's the commandos role?" the question became, "What's the Assault's role?" So, the irony is that the Assault was here long before the Commando but the introduction of the commando is what, somehow, caused the Assault to lose it's dedicated offensive role. I actually questioned the role of commandos repeatedly since they were first implemented. Aloha snackbar
sir RAVEN WING 3	Posted - 2015.05.30 03:48:00 - [56] - Quote demens grimwulff wrote: sir RAVEN WING wrote: This is foolish. Assaults rely on killing ability, pure and simple. When engaged they grab cover, and shoot. Commandos rely on their two weapons to take a target out before they are killed. Scout rely on stealth, when engage they strafe to avoid their fragile frame getting destroyed. Sents rely on raw HP, they rush when engaged. Logistics rely on their killer. When engaged they can't really do much. Now, crying about how you can no longer take full advantage of horrid hit detection does not work. Horrid hit detection or lack of accuracy? Considering that I only run into hit detection issues when the characters are skipping all over the screen, leads me to believe the cries of bad hit detection only come from latency issues and not actual hit detection. We aren't saying Dust will die or that the world is caving in, but what we are saying is that the viability of the assault suit will be lowered below that of the other suits in its class, and that the problems lie elsewhere... this isn't the nerf he is looking for, but it is sadly the one he has found. As of now they are they are dominant. I am an assault and Scout. (Well, Jack of Trades, but those are most mention-able.) The assault is 10x better than the scout. Better than the logi for damn sure, and even can best a sent. Now why we are changing speed may be due to protosalts running around whole maps killing everything. It won't exactly fix it, but it will give Rattati some time. *Official Forum Bird* "Agony is the body cleansing itself." - Viktor Revon
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 10	Posted - 2015.05.30 04:26:00 - [57] - Quote Heimdallr69 wrote: I've been one since mordu's through the ups and downs and now we are buffing other suits and nerfing assaults so I was thinking why not just remove assaults and combine them with mandos..scouts will have speed followed by logis mandos heavies...No more high ehp speed suits, I think this would add more diversity as people would then need to use scouts for speed and mandos for slaying..I was against this but now I believe it might be the best solution, scouts = low hp but fast, logis low hp speed at current assaults, mandos slower than logis but faster than heavies..thoughts? Posted in the Speed/HP Thread ... Added "Heim's Model". Bridged the gap by adding HP to Logis and increasing Commando speed. This page is all yours, so let me know if you'd like to tweak any of the values. > Google Doc < Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Heimdallr69 Negative-Feedback. 5	Posted - 2015.05.30 04:44:00 - [58] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Heimdallr69 wrote: I've been one since mordu's through the ups and downs and now we are buffing other suits and nerfing assaults so I was thinking why not just remove assaults and combine them with mandos..scouts will have speed followed by logis mandos heavies...No more high ehp speed suits, I think this would add more diversity as people would then need to use scouts for speed and mandos for slaying..I was against this but now I believe it might be the best solution, scouts = low hp but fast, logis low hp speed at current assaults, mandos slower than logis but faster than heavies..thoughts? Posted in the Speed/HP Thread ... Added "Heim's Model". Bridged the gap by adding HP to Logis and increasing Commando speed. This page is all yours, so let me know if you'd like to tweak any of the values. > Google Doc < Thanks man I'll give it a look tomorrow... I'm a bit under tonight Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 10	Posted - 2015.05.30 04:55:00 - [59] - Quote Heimdallr69 wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Heimdallr69 wrote: I've been one since mordu's through the ups and downs and now we are buffing other suits and nerfing assaults so I was thinking why not just remove assaults and combine them with mandos..scouts will have speed followed by logis mandos heavies...No more high ehp speed suits, I think this would add more diversity as people would then need to use scouts for speed and mandos for slaying..I was against this but now I believe it might be the best solution, scouts = low hp but fast, logis low hp speed at current assaults, mandos slower than logis but faster than heavies..thoughts? Posted in the Speed/HP Thread ... Added "Heim's Model". Bridged the gap by adding HP to Logis and increasing Commando speed. This page is all yours, so let me know if you'd like to tweak any of the values. > Google Doc < Thanks man I'll give it a look tomorrow... I'm a bit under tonight Roger. Good luck with your recovery. o7 Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Kaughst Nyain San 829	Posted - 2015.05.30 06:51:00 - [60] - Quote Ewar needs to bleed into Assault suits more than the Logi suits. "Remember: no matter the circumstances, there will always be people willing to push you down a hole."

Dreis ShadowWeaver 0uter.Heaven 4	Posted - 2015.05.30 07:09:00 - [61] - Quote Kaughst wrote: Ewar needs to bleed into Assault suits more than the Logi suits. Why? Creator of the 'Nova Knifers United' channel My Minja Blog Caldari blood, Matari heart <3
Kaughst Nyain San 829	Posted - 2015.05.30 10:30:00 - [62] - Quote Dreis ShadowWeaver wrote: Kaughst wrote: Ewar needs to bleed into Assault suits more than the Logi suits. Why? The scan range/precision needs to be above the Logis. Passive detection of enemies is paramount for the Assault not for Logi, Logi always operate behind the Assault. "Remember: no matter the circumstances, there will always be people willing to push you down a hole."
gustavo acosta Capital Acquisitions LLC 1	Posted - 2015.05.30 10:41:00 - [63] - Quote Kaughst wrote: Dreis ShadowWeaver wrote: Kaughst wrote: Ewar needs to bleed into Assault suits more than the Logi suits. Why? The scan range/precision needs to be above the Logis. Passive detection of enemies is paramount for the Assault not for Logi, Logi always operate behind the Assault. Lolno, there's way too many things going for the assault suit even with the movement speed nerf, to suggest there's any need for any buff to any assault suits is asinine. GimmeDatSuhWeet isk We found a new pope to teach shield users how to shield tank, all hail pope redblood the 6th
Krixus Flux Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 713	Posted - 2015.05.30 11:10:00 - [64] - Quote I enjoyed reading good points made by Demen, Pokey and Heim. Good discussion bros. fist bump I hope CCP listens and adjust. Saying what's on people's minds
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game 2	Posted - 2015.05.30 11:14:00 - [65] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Assaults will still maintain their current sprint speed, just have lower movement speed. This ^^ yet mercs are still getting their panties in a twist.. less movement speed = goodbye Assault thinking wiggle wiggle is an effective strategy And a note to the Cal Assault haters... Shield Regulators + Cover + Rapid Reload = Great ! Supress enemy, duck in cover recharge+reload, go back for round 2.I am sick of mercs QQing the Cal Assault because it does not do what the others can, God forbid we have some actual variation in the role available.. fk it, lets model them off the Ak.0 Kick reduction (the most commonly requested Ck.0 bonus) is an open invitation to stack Armour plates, don't do it! Te Sbundo'd
Scotty AI MatchMaker The Templis Dragonaurs 44	Posted - 2015.05.30 11:14:00 - [66] - Quote Your assault moving to fast? stack armour 'Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep.'
Cat Merc Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 17	Posted - 2015.05.30 11:22:00 - [67] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: EVERYONE CALM DOWN! The assaults will have less walking speed, but sprinting speed and strafing speed will remain the same according to CCP Rattati. Strafe speed is a modifier off of walking speed. Strafe speed will not remain the same. "Breakin, PS3's and PS4's can't mate. They're incompatible. Unlike Apache's and Cappuccino machines." - *Cat wisdom*
demens grimwulff Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 403	Posted - 2015.05.30 12:38:00 - [68] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: demens grimwulff wrote: If I had to take the hit, I would say more damage would be required... I, honestly, see the assault being lost in the sauce unless they impose something heavy on the logi suits... i.e. all equipment must be filled, and you're total pg/cpu will be lowered, or else we will, once again, see the rain of the logi slayer. For the sake of not filling the page with more quotes, I just grabbed this snippit Very valid points again. I will admit that I have not played Minmatar Assault in a serious capacity so my opinion on its history isn't worth much. Regardless, I don't want to see certain suits get screwed because of this, so future testing will see if there are outliers and I think adjustments can be made accordingly. Back to thoughts on bonuses in general, I kinda wanted to get your guys thoughts on this. I just kinda dropped some bonuses in there to get the conversation going, so if you have ideas, by all means speak up! https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NpPu4PQmGuUNa-WfSb-8krX7G7jMV8T6juaEwxP7_jM/edit?usp=sharing Maybe min assault gets 1% to explosive and 2 % to projectile, while commando gets the current bonus... something to add to the min assault, but not to make it OP with a bunch more damage on the explosives section... I remember the days of the flaylock and omg we don't need that back. I will be collecting my thoughts (once the haze rolls out of my head from last night) and get something up on the boards for an alternate view of the ehp/speed curve. As the archeology of our thought easily shows, man is an invention of recent date. And one perhaps nearing its end
Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 496	Posted - 2015.05.30 12:42:00 - [69] - Quote Heimdallr69 wrote: Krixus Flux wrote: CCP just pissed off Heim. "You know what, **** it!! You wanna gimp it?? Get rid of it!!" I've been gimped for 2 years and now when assaults are in a good place they want to go and over do it...Like I said buff the others and leave assaults alone or nerf assaults and leave the rest where they are...it's gonna play out as a huge nerf that wasn't even needed. I'm trying to tell people what will happen but hey I tried to warn them Lol classic ccp provokes classic Heimdallr69 reaction ..gg calm down buddy ..sell your ps3 get back on pc ..forget about dust The death of love
Monty Mole Clone Ametat Security Amarr Empire 289	Posted - 2015.05.30 14:24:00 - [70] - Quote or you could just pay for the thing you and many others ceaselessly campaigned for Dust 514 hurts Go Fabulous or go home

Heimdallr69 Negative-Feedback. 5	Posted - 2015.05.30 19:44:00 - [71] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Heimdallr69 wrote: I've been one since mordu's through the ups and downs and now we are buffing other suits and nerfing assaults so I was thinking why not just remove assaults and combine them with mandos..scouts will have speed followed by logis mandos heavies...No more high ehp speed suits, I think this would add more diversity as people would then need to use scouts for speed and mandos for slaying..I was against this but now I believe it might be the best solution, scouts = low hp but fast, logis low hp speed at current assaults, mandos slower than logis but faster than heavies..thoughts? Posted in the Speed/HP Thread ... Added "Heim's Model". Bridged the gap by adding HP to Logis and increasing Commando speed. This page is all yours, so let me know if you'd like to tweak any of the values. > Google Doc < I actually really like that one..I feel like with assaults gone the speed difference will make a nice effect..scouts will use speed logis will have their place then the slayers (mandos) won't have super speed and ehp where as assaults get rid of that speed difference..scouts fast low hp, logis not as fast low hp, mandos/heavies slower but better slayers..None of this 900ehp faster than scouts stuff anymore Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6	Posted - 2015.05.30 19:57:00 - [72] - Quote demens grimwulff wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: demens grimwulff wrote: If I had to take the hit, I would say more damage would be required... I, honestly, see the assault being lost in the sauce unless they impose something heavy on the logi suits... i.e. all equipment must be filled, and you're total pg/cpu will be lowered, or else we will, once again, see the rain of the logi slayer. For the sake of not filling the page with more quotes, I just grabbed this snippit Very valid points again. I will admit that I have not played Minmatar Assault in a serious capacity so my opinion on its history isn't worth much. Regardless, I don't want to see certain suits get screwed because of this, so future testing will see if there are outliers and I think adjustments can be made accordingly. Back to thoughts on bonuses in general, I kinda wanted to get your guys thoughts on this. I just kinda dropped some bonuses in there to get the conversation going, so if you have ideas, by all means speak up! https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NpPu4PQmGuUNa-WfSb-8krX7G7jMV8T6juaEwxP7_jM/edit?usp=sharing Maybe min assault gets 1% to explosive and 2 % to projectile, while commando gets the current bonus... something to add to the min assault, but not to make it OP with a bunch more damage on the explosives section... I remember the days of the flaylock and omg we don't need that back. I will be collecting my thoughts (once the haze rolls out of my head from last night) and get something up on the boards for an alternate view of the ehp/speed curve. Honestly I don't think more damage would make the Flaylock OP. It's still pretty skill-centric but I'd have to take a look at it again in the current meta. But yeah, do you see the general bonus structure I'm going for? Not only is is much more clean and uniform (which you know Rattati loves) but I think it adds some much needed oomph to the Assault's bonuses, and perhaps some tweaking to other roles to boost them up a bit. I've always subscribed to the fact that while base stats like speed and defense somewhat establlish a playstyle, it's really the bonuses that hammer in and establish exactly what that role does. This is why I'm in favor of the Defense-Mobility curve, but also think that Assault bonuses really need an overhaul because their current bonuses try, but really fail to establish that "THIS IS THE SUIT YOU USE TO KILL THE THINGS!" "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
Echo 1991 Dead Man's Game 826	Posted - 2015.05.30 19:58:00 - [73] - Quote Rather than changing speed stats, why not just take a slot away from the logis and give them more HP? Then give the commando a speed and slot buff. Assaults will be gimped if these proposed changes go ahead.
demens grimwulff Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 414	Posted - 2015.05.30 20:10:00 - [74] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Honestly I don't think more damage would make the Flaylock OP. It's still pretty skill-centric but I'd have to take a look at it again in the current meta. But yeah, do you see the general bonus structure I'm going for? Not only is is much more clean and uniform (which you know Rattati loves) but I think it adds some much needed oomph to the Assault's bonuses, and perhaps some tweaking to other roles to boost them up a bit. I've always subscribed to the fact that while base stats like speed and defense somewhat establlish a playstyle, it's really the bonuses that hammer in and establish exactly what that role does. This is why I'm in favor of the Defense-Mobility curve, but also think that Assault bonuses really need an overhaul because their current bonuses try, but really fail to establish that "THIS IS THE SUIT YOU USE TO KILL THE THINGS!" My post, on the matter, can be found here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2798637#post2798637 The reason why I am nervous about giving min assaults to high of an explosive damage modifier is two fold: 1) jump mods + extra explosive damage will lead to a really mobile, really lethal combination that could become pretty OP 2) I don't want there to be a perception of OP due to the damage increases, so I figured the staggered amount would be more likely to be accepted by the community (specifically since Min will get two weapon classes vs 1 for the rest) As the archeology of our thought easily shows, man is an invention of recent date. And one perhaps nearing its end
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3	Posted - 2015.05.30 22:08:00 - [75] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: let me make a gratuitous case for the assault I'd like to call special pleading 1)A logi shouldn't have only a missing sidearm to distinguish it as "not a frontline suit" 2)A scout shouldn't have only low starting HP to deem it as "not a frontline suit"(by this logic though, scouts should have more speed or HP to bring them into line with the HP curve, yes?) 3)Assaults are the premier frontline suit, so why SHOULDN'T they have a higher Speed/HP than other suits, since those are the primary stats for frontlining? 4)Assaults don't have the scanning properties of a Logi or Scout, nor the EQ slots, NOR the mass DPS of the Heavy, NOR the amazing weapon-based bonuses of the Commando(minassault and Amsault are a different story, as they define the assault well, having combat longevity bonuses) Please Ratatti, I was starting to seriously consider coming back as soon as finances and available tech allows, but this sudden derp has made me question whether or not i need to spend any more money into my Ps3 just for DUST. While it may not mean much to you, if this does indeed go through i won't respec, i'll simply take the SSD out of it and put in my PC. I am holding myself hostage until assaults get a buff! Yeah, assaults should be better than every other suit all the time - just because you were 'smart' and skilled into them rather than avoid noob traps like those **ing idiot logi suits or commandos (hah what a nub, why have all that HP when it takes you >40 seconds to get it all back, If you cant do it in under 10 seconds like my assaults do, you shouldn't be on the battlefield!). 1) Logi's aren't just 'missing a sidearm', they start with much lower base HP and much lower shield recharge values, comparatively more of their available fitting space is eaten up by equipment too, where assaults get a fitting cost reduction to better guns (allowing them to focus more on defensive modules). So your 'point' here is oversimplified and riddled with fallacies. 2) It doesn't - in most cases other than the caldari scout, the scout suit often spends a large portion of its fit on ewar mods and a cloak field which along with slot totals prevents them from mounting a lot of HP recovery or tank. The cal scout is the only scout with an absolutely wild inherent regen value on its primary tank So once again, your 'point' is oversimplified and false. 3) SPECIAL PLEADING. If Hp and mobility were the 'only' stats required to be good at frontlining, why aren't we seeing more sentinels with rifles & kincats? Or more commando's with kincats? Oh right because they aren't the only important stats - the ability to recover HP while still having 'acceptable'(aka high) hp/movement values and plenty of slots for 'utility' is what dominates frontlining. A change of .5m/s walking speed is not going to hurt assaults ability to 'frontline', it just means that their KDR's might drop a little because they wont be able to wigglewiggle as well. 4)All the assaults have good 'performace' based bonuses on their weapons - even the caldari, and the gallente's is mindblowingly powerful. But hey based on your previous points I can tell you're not interested in facts, you just want a crutch for awesomeness, like you've previously wanted with tanks. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.** I have a few alts.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6	Posted - 2015.05.31 01:41:00 - [76] - Quote demens grimwulff wrote: My post, on the matter, can be found here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2798637#post2798637 The reason why I am nervous about giving min assaults to high of an explosive damage modifier is two fold: 1) jump mods + extra explosive damage will lead to a really mobile, really lethal combination that could become pretty OP 2) I don't want there to be a perception of OP due to the damage increases, so I figured the staggered amount would be more likely to be accepted by the community (specifically since Min will get two weapon classes vs 1 for the rest) Fair points. I really hate the Jumping+Splash weapon crap we've been seeing. I mean to be fair the current Minmatar Bonus only applies to Projectiles right? Either way, the more I think about it the more I think the Assaults need some sort of damage bonus. I think simply giving them the +2% bonus in tandum with the speed change would be a good first step...it can always be changed later if it proves to be too much (though I don't think it will be). I mostly don't want every Assault player rushing over to Logi suits and having a repeat of last time, which basically ended in Logis getting castrated into the ground to prevent them from being effective in combat as a knee jerk reaction to prevent that behavior. Logistics need to be lethal, but Assaults need to be more lethal. I think Damage Output is going to be the most clean way we can establish this. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
Kaughst Nyain San 830	Posted - 2015.05.31 06:53:00 - [77] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: demens grimwulff wrote: My post, on the matter, can be found here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2798637#post2798637 The reason why I am nervous about giving min assaults to high of an explosive damage modifier is two fold: 1) jump mods + extra explosive damage will lead to a really mobile, really lethal combination that could become pretty OP 2) I don't want there to be a perception of OP due to the damage increases, so I figured the staggered amount would be more likely to be accepted by the community (specifically since Min will get two weapon classes vs 1 for the rest) Fair points. I really hate the Jumping+Splash weapon crap we've been seeing. I mean to be fair the current Minmatar Bonus only applies to Projectiles right? Either way, the more I think about it the more I think the Assaults need some sort of damage bonus. I think simply giving them the +2% bonus in tandum with the speed change would be a good first step...it can always be changed later if it proves to be too much (though I don't think it will be). I mostly don't want every Assault player rushing over to Logi suits and having a repeat of last time, which basically ended in Logis getting castrated into the ground to prevent them from being effective in combat as a knee jerk reaction to prevent that behavior. Logistics need to be lethal, but Assaults need to be more lethal. I think Damage Output is going to be the most clean way we can establish this. Honestly don't want the Min Assaults to have that either it was potential problem when people suggested it, now with the jumps it allows to have a suit less in line with the other Assaults. But honestly we just need to keep the Logi nerfed more if we don't want people jumping ship. "Remember: no matter the circumstances, there will always be people willing to push you down a hole."
jane stalin free dropships for newbs 310	Posted - 2015.05.31 10:38:00 - [78] - Quote To buff assaults you could increase the speed they change weapons , get grenades ready , reduce the stamina of melee strikes and reduce the delay of melee strikes and give them a bonus to sidearms


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