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Heimdallr69 Negative-Feedback. 5	Posted - 2015.05.29 18:38:00 - [1] - Quote I've been one since mordu's through the ups and downs and now we are buffing other suits and nerfing assaults so I was thinking why not just remove assaults and combine them with mandos..scouts will have speed followed by logis mandos heavies...No more high ehp speed suits, I think this would add more diversity as people would then need to use scouts for speed and mandos for slaying..I was against this but now I believe it might be the best solution, scouts = low hp but fast, logis low hp speed at current assaults, mandos slower than logis but faster than heavies..thoughts? Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
Vordred Knight Your Grandmas 727	Posted - 2015.05.29 18:45:00 - [2] - Quote But I love my sexy Gallente abs yo! Hello, world!
demens grimwulff Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 379	Posted - 2015.05.29 18:46:00 - [3] - Quote Sadly that is basically what will happen with this purposed change... it will remove assaults... so might as well completely remove said assets, also As the archeology of our thought easily shows, man is an invention of recent date. And one perhaps nearing its end
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6	Posted - 2015.05.29 18:49:00 - [4] - Quote demens grimwulff wrote: Sadly that is basically what will happen with this purposed change... it will remove assaults... so might as well completely remove said assets, also Assaults will be useless because their speed will reflect how much defense they have? "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
Heimdallr69 Negative-Feedback. 5	Posted - 2015.05.29 18:53:00 - [5] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: demens grimwulff wrote: Sadly that is basically what will happen with this purposed change... it will remove assaults... so might as well completely remove said assets, also Assaults will be useless because their speed will reflect how much defense they have? Mandos will be better assaults than assaults will be...clean them out now, think about how much smoother the game will run Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6	Posted - 2015.05.29 18:56:00 - [6] - Quote Heimdallr69 wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: demens grimwulff wrote: Sadly that is basically what will happen with this purposed change... it will remove assaults... so might as well completely remove said assets, also Assaults will be useless because their speed will reflect how much defense they have? Mandos will be better assaults than assaults will be...clean them out now, think about how much smoother the game will run While I agree that Commandos and Assaults fulfill similar roles, I have to ask Are you against the principle of basing defense off of mobility? If not, what do you feel needs to happen (assuming the speed changes go through) to make Assaults perform at the same level as Commandos in the slayer role, and superior to Logistics in the slayer role? "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
Scheneighnay McBob Tribal Liberation Force Paramilitary 7	Posted - 2015.05.29 18:57:00 - [7] - Quote Never going to happen: assaults are more or less the mascots of Dust, and they're still fairly unique. For some reason, they'll still be more popular than commandos, despite commandos having always been the better option. Aloha snackbar
7th Son 7 Algintal Core Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.05.29 19:05:00 - [8] - Quote So we should remove a role/play style because there's hypothetically going to be a problem? Hell no. Don't you dare remove my assault suits CCP. The speed changes have not even taken effect yet but we should eliminate assaults? huh...... we have no experience with these new changes, so until then I vote absolutly not. Only your complete and total awareness is needed, nothing else will do. ----- OSHO
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 10	Posted - 2015.05.29 19:09:00 - [9] - Quote For everyone planning on switching from Assault to Commando, I hope you haven't become to reliant upon core locus grenades. Praetoriani Classiarii Templares = PIE Inc, Amarr dedicated Corp Channel for AFW Squads & Orbitals: PIE Ground Control
Heimdallr69 Negative-Feedback. 5	Posted - 2015.05.29 19:09:00 - [10] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Heimdallr69 wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: demens grimwulff wrote: Sadly that is basically what will happen with this purposed change... it will remove assaults... so might as well completely remove said assets, also Assaults will be useless because their speed will reflect how much defense they have? Mandos will be better assaults than assaults will be...clean them out now, think about how much smoother the game will run While I agree that Commandos and Assaults fulfill similar roles, I have to ask Are you against the principle of basing defense off of mobility? If not, what do you feel needs to happen (assuming the speed changes go through) to make Assaults perform at the same level as Commandos in the slayer role, and superior to Logistics in the slayer role? I feel mandos and assaults are to similar of a role so I'd rather keep the slower one as it gives people a reason to use scouts again for speed..the thing is assaults will have similar hp and movement and not a good bonus nor a second weapon so mandos will be taking the "slayer" role..I just thought why not combine the two similar roles to get 1 people are happy with..it adds the speed gap everyone wants, it would give them a dmg bonus and 2 primary weapons, I see this being the best solution that works for everyone Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro

Templar XIII Vherokior Combat Logistics 192	Posted - 2015.05.29 19:33:00 - [11] - Quote Hmmm...I kinda like and don'T like this idea of yours. Don't like maybe just out of pure sentiment for the assault suit. Like because it makes some overall sense to me. The best compromise between these two sentiments would be to give the assault suit two light weapon slots, remove the grenade from him and remove the commando altogether instead. This is something I could whole heartedly support, as the commando always felt a bit too...hermaphroditic.
Cody Sietz Random Gunz Rise Of Legion. 4	Posted - 2015.05.29 19:33:00 - [12] - Quote Wasn't that the plan? Like Legions was planning on doing this already. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6	Posted - 2015.05.29 19:35:00 - [13] - Quote Heimdallr69 wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Heimdallr69 wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: demens grimwulff wrote: Sadly that is basically what will happen with this purposed change... it will remove assaults... so might as well completely remove said assets, also Assaults will be useless because their speed will reflect how much defense they have? Mandos will be better assaults than assaults will be...clean them out now, think about how much smoother the game will run While I agree that Commandos and Assaults fulfill similar roles, I have to ask Are you against the principle of basing defense off of mobility? If not, what do you feel needs to happen (assuming the speed changes go through) to make Assaults perform at the same level as Commandos in the slayer role, and superior to Logistics in the slayer role? I feel mandos and assaults are to similar of a role so I'd rather keep the slower one as it gives people a reason to use scouts again for speed..the thing is assaults will have similar hp and movement and not a good bonus nor a second weapon so mandos will be taking the "slayer" role..I just thought why not combine the two similar roles to get 1 people are happy with..it adds the speed gap everyone wants, it would give them a dmg bonus and 2 primary weapons, I see this being the best solution that works for everyone Do you think there is some way we can perhaps define Assaults as "Attack Role - Relentless Advance - Anti Infantry" and give them a lot of stamina, and then bonuses which appeal to killing infantry, such as damage and some of the existing perks (Gal/Cal need some work, Amarr and Minmatar are pretty solid for anti infantry) and then have Commandos be "Attack Role - Relentless Damage - Anti Vehicle", reload bonus is awesome on light AV weapons and boasts an effect of sustained damage plus the existing damage effect. Similar, but different enough to merit them being different roles. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
Lynn Beck Delta Vanguard 6 2	Posted - 2015.05.29 19:44:00 - [14] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: demens grimwulff wrote: Sadly that is basically what will happen with this purposed change... it will remove assaults... so might as well completely remove said assets, also Assaults will be useless because their speed will reflect how much defense they have? I still find it funny how we're not even taking into consideration each roles' intended combat effectiveness. A logi shouldn't have only a missing sidearm to distinguish it as "not a frontline suit" A scout shouldn't have only low starting HP to deem it as "not a frontline suit"(by this logic though, scouts should have more speed or HP to bring them into line with the HP curve, yes?) Assaults are the premier frontline suit, so why SHOULDN'T they have a higher Speed/HP than other suits, since those are the primary stats for frontlining? Assaults don't have the scanning properties of a Logi or Scout, nor the EQ slots, NOR the mass DPS of the Heavy, NOR the amazing weapon-based bonuses of the Commando(minassault and Amsault are a different story, as they define the assault well, having combat longevity bonuses) Please Ratatti, I was starting to seriously consider coming back as soon as finances and available tech allows, but this sudden derp has made me question whether or not i need to spend any more money into my Ps3 just for DUST. While it may not mean much to you, if this does indeed go through i won't respec, i'll simply take the SSD out of it and put in my PC. General John Ripper -BAM! I'm Emeril Lagasse. This message was approved by the 'Nobody Loved You' Foundation'
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6	Posted - 2015.05.29 19:48:00 - [15] - Quote Given that the assault bonuses currently, are often lackluster, I could agree that they need a superior speed/defense ratio. However I also feel that if the assaults had better bonuses, it would be more acceptable to have this speed reduction. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 10	Posted - 2015.05.29 20:19:00 - [16] - Quote Assaults will still maintain their current sprint speed, just have lower movement speed. Praetoriani Classiarii Templares = PIE Inc, Amarr dedicated Corp Channel for AFW Squads & Orbitals: PIE Ground Control
demens grimwulff Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 380	Posted - 2015.05.29 20:23:00 - [17] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: demens grimwulff wrote: Sadly that is basically what will happen with this purposed change... it will remove assaults... so might as well completely remove said assets, also Assaults will be useless because their speed will reflect how much defense they have? My point, which was completely overlooked in CCP Rat's thread was that, if armor HP is a problem, then we need to revisit the way armor plates stack their negative effects. I have had a counter proposal running through my head for days now and have not typed it up due to lack of "completeness", but it is, in short, based on the following principals : 1) if positive effects give diminishing returns, then negative effects should have compounding exponential returns and not linear ones 2) ferro scale HP buff is out of proportion to the lack of a movement effect 3) standardizing movement speeds by lowering assault base speed removes the one support mechanism that shield tanked speed assaults have: strafing 4) the whole idea of flattening speed in this way is, essentially, over engineering a leaky dam but not plugging the leak At the time of the change there will be little to no reason to maintain assaults if there are better options available to you. Minmando would be, at that point, only slightly slower than min assault, and will have substantially better racials... plus two light weapons... and the logis will have strafing speed + the slots to build whatever you want however you want ETA: post from phone... please excuse grammar and or weird autocorrects/spelling As the archeology of our thought easily shows, man is an invention of recent date. And one perhaps nearing its end
demens grimwulff Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 380	Posted - 2015.05.29 20:25:00 - [18] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Assaults will still maintain their current sprint speed, just have lower movement speed. Which means lower strafing speed, therefore worse survivability. You don't lose a gunfight because of your hp, but because of how much you get hit vs how much you hit your target. Strafing is a vital tool in the bag of the assault... and it will now be given to logis and mandos... As the archeology of our thought easily shows, man is an invention of recent date. And one perhaps nearing its end
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6	Posted - 2015.05.29 20:32:00 - [19] - Quote demens grimwulff wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Assaults will still maintain their current sprint speed, just have lower movement speed. Which means lower strafing speed, therefore worse survivability. You don't lose a gunfight because of your hp, but because of how much you get hit vs how much you hit your target. Strafing is a vital tool in the bag of the assault... and it will now be given to logis and mandos... Except Logistics have lower HP and get hit slightly less than Assaults. Commandos have more HP but are larger and easier to hit. Wouldn't this mean similar survivability between all 3 groups? "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 12	Posted - 2015.05.29 20:38:00 - [20] - Quote EVERYONE CALM DOWN! The assaults will have less walking speed, but sprinting speed and strafing speed will remain the same according to CCP Rattati. Pokey Dravon wrote: Assaults will be useless because their speed will reflect how much defense they have? While I agree this thread is thread is crazy and overreacting, I don't think there's anything wrong with the assault's current speed and HP. Though I don't think reduced walking speed will be a big deal. Cody Sietz wrote: Wasn't that the plan? Like Legions was planning on doing this already. No. Legion is getting rid of commandos, and giving assaults 2 light weapons. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+

demens grimwulff Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 383	Posted - 2015.05.29 20:39:00 - [21] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: demens grimwulff wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Assaults will still maintain their current sprint speed, just have lower movement speed. Which means lower strafing speed, therefore worse survivability. You don't lose a gunfight because of your hp, but because of how much you get hit vs how much you hit your target. Strafing is a vital tool in the bag of the assault... and it will now be given to logis and mandos... Except Logistics have lower HP and get hit slightly less than Assaults. Commandos have more HP but are larger and easier to hit. Wouldn't this mean similar survivability between all 3 groups? No, keep in mind that logis will have higher movement speeds (strafe speeds) than assaults making them less likely to be hit, and base hp will be negated by more overall slots and the cpu/pg to run them. Even if the power core goes into effect and pg/cpu is flattened across all medium suits, the logi will still maintain the slot advantage, allowing for equalization of hp. Mandos might be easier to hit, but hit much harder than those they are fighting, normalizing damage over time if the Mando misses more shots than its enemy. As the archeology of our thought easily shows, man is an invention of recent date. And one perhaps nearing its end
Heimdallr69 Negative-Feedback. 5	Posted - 2015.05.29 20:43:00 - [22] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: demens grimwulff wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Assaults will still maintain their current sprint speed, just have lower movement speed. Which means lower strafing speed, therefore worse survivability. You don't lose a gunfight because of your hp, but because of how much you get hit vs how much you hit your target. Strafing is a vital tool in the bag of the assault... and it will now be given to logis and mandos... Except Logistics have lower HP and get hit slightly less than Assaults. Commandos have more HP but are larger and easier to hit. Wouldn't this mean similar survivability between all 3 groups? Logis will be as fast as current assaults, mandos will be as fast as assaults with way better bonuses...CCP you think sprinting matters? If I want a fast hack I'll use my scout I use my assault for slaying as that's what we decided the assaults role was..If you're gonna nerf the assaults and buff everything else at the same time, just get rid of assaults you're gonna make them useless anyways So get rid of that wasted space Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6	Posted - 2015.05.29 20:47:00 - [23] - Quote demens grimwulff wrote: No, keep in mind that logis will have higher movement speeds (strafe speeds) than assaults making them less likely to be hit, and base hp will be negated by more overall slots and the cpu/pg to run them. Even if the power core goes into effect and pg/cpu is flattened across all medium suits, the logi will still maintain the slot advantage, allowing for equalization of hp. Mandos might be easier to hit, but hit much harder than those they are fighting, normalizing damage over time if the Mando misses more shots than its enemy. As far as I know, Logistics will have exactly the same number of total slots as Assaults. Additionally it is my understanding that Rattati plans to try to make the resources for Assaults and Logistics the same, and then use fitting bonuses to allow them to fit more weapons/equipment depending on the role. So If all of that holds true, Logistics will be incapable of having more HP than Assaults due to inferior base HP. Heimdallr69 wrote: Logis will be as fast as current assaults, mandos will be as fast as assaults with way better bonuses...CCP you think sprinting matters? People who fit Kinkats do. Curious, would you guys feel better about speed reduction if Assaults got a damage perk similar to Commandos? "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
demens grimwulff Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 383	Posted - 2015.05.29 20:48:00 - [24] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: EVERYONE CALM DOWN! The assaults will have less walking speed, but sprinting speed and strafing speed will remain the same according to CCP Rattati. While I agree this thread is thread is crazy and overreacting, I don't think there's anything wrong with the assault's current speed and HP. Though I don't think reduced walking speed will be a big deal. My only concern with your statement is the lack of recognition of the repeated over nerfing of something and then the year delay that is experienced as it is readjusted to get back in line with everything else... or... almost 2 years, in the case of shields. As the archeology of our thought easily shows, man is an invention of recent date. And one perhaps nearing its end
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 12	Posted - 2015.05.29 20:52:00 - [25] - Quote demens grimwulff wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: EVERYONE CALM DOWN! The assaults will have less walking speed, but sprinting speed and strafing speed will remain the same according to CCP Rattati. While I agree this thread is thread is crazy and overreacting, I don't think there's anything wrong with the assault's current speed and HP. Though I don't think reduced walking speed will be a big deal. My only concern with your statement is the lack of recognition of the repeated over nerfing of something and then the year delay that is experienced as it is readjusted to get back in line with everything else... or... almost 2 years, in the case of shields. That might have been the case in the past, but it has not been that way since Rattati took over balancing, and he in fact was the one to undo many of the awful balancing that his predecessors did (for example, the flaylock pistol is actually good now). Rattati posted details about the nerf in his thread, just like he always posts threads detailing his balancing decisions for community discussion and revision. We have access to specifics of the nerf (like the fact that sprint and strafe speeds will remain intact), so there is no reason to be overreacting. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
demens grimwulff Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 383	Posted - 2015.05.29 20:54:00 - [26] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: demens grimwulff wrote: No, keep in mind that logis will have higher movement speeds (strafe speeds) than assaults making them less likely to be hit, and base hp will be negated by more overall slots and the cpu/pg to run them. Even if the power core goes into effect and pg/cpu is flattened across all medium suits, the logi will still maintain the slot advantage, allowing for equalization of hp. Mandos might be easier to hit, but hit much harder than those they are fighting, normalizing damage over time if the Mando misses more shots than its enemy. As far as I know, Logistics will have exactly the same number of total slots as Assaults. Additionally it is my understanding that Rattati plans to try to make the resources for Assaults and Logistics the same, and then use fitting bonuses to allow them to fit more weapons/equipment depending on the role. So If all of that holds true, Logistics will be incapable of having more HP than Assaults due to inferior base HP. Heimdallr69 wrote: Logis will be as fast as current assaults, mandos will be as fast as assaults with way better bonuses...CCP you think sprinting matters? People who fit Kinkats do. Curious, would you guys feel better about speed reduction if Assaults got a damage perk similar to Commandos? As far as the tiericide you're discussing, it is hard to say without everything laid out, plain and simple, but I think it is still shooting the load in the wrong direction. The stacking of plates without a real impact to overall speed decrease is a problem... pretty much, ferro scales. Not many non-gal or amarr assaults run regular plates, and even then, they don't have the speed currently to complain that they are two fast. The suits that will be hit by this aren't suits meant to be outright armor tanked... namely the caldari and minmatar, which only use armor because shields are to damn weak. The problem can be solved with a shield buff and an adjustment to stacking plates, making them more burdensome the more you put on. As far as kincats are concerned, they are good if you aren't already being shot at... but they don't change survivability as drastically as strafe speed. If assaults got a damage bonus to light weapons, I would be slightly more accepting, but would still be extremely worried without knowing the totality of the changes. As the archeology of our thought easily shows, man is an invention of recent date. And one perhaps nearing its end
Krixus Flux Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 710	Posted - 2015.05.29 20:59:00 - [27] - Quote CCP just pissed off Heim. "You know what, **** it!! You wanna gimp it?? Get rid of it!!" Saying what's on people's minds
demens grimwulff Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 386	Posted - 2015.05.29 21:00:00 - [28] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: demens grimwulff wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: EVERYONE CALM DOWN! The assaults will have less walking speed, but sprinting speed and strafing speed will remain the same according to CCP Rattati. While I agree this thread is thread is crazy and overreacting, I don't think there's anything wrong with the assault's current speed and HP. Though I don't think reduced walking speed will be a big deal. My only concern with your statement is the lack of recognition of the repeated over nerfing of something and then the year delay that is experienced as it is readjusted to get back in line with everything else... or... almost 2 years, in the case of shields. That might have been the case in the past, but it has not been that way since Rattati took over balancing, and he in fact was the one to undo many of the awful balancing that his predecessors did (for example, the flaylock pistol is actually good now). Rattati posted detais about the nerf in his thread, just like he always posts threads detailing his balancing decisions. We have access to specifics of the nerf (like the fact that sprint and strafe speeds will remain intact), so there is no reason to be overreacting. One person's track record does not outweigh the record of the whole conglomerate... if that were true, Enron would probably still be in business. Without seeing everything completely worked out, I think saying that strafing speed will be maintained is hopelessly optimistic... I have yet to deal with Rattati yet, but I have a feeling the numbers and sayings won't translate into reality. Excuse the tinfoilery, but we're just trying to point out flaws in the thought process that could be addressed elsewhere... Heim and I won't bj the opinion just because of who said it, and our points are valid and do need addressing... and not some handwaving rhetoric. As the archeology of our thought easily shows, man is an invention of recent date. And one perhaps nearing its end
Heimdallr69 Negative-Feedback. 5	Posted - 2015.05.29 21:06:00 - [29] - Quote Krixus Flux wrote: CCP just pissed off Heim. "You know what, **** it!! You wanna gimp it?? Get rid of it!!" I've been gimped for 2 years and now when assaults are in a good place they want to go and over do it...Like I said buff the others and leave assaults alone or nerf assaults and leave the rest where they are...it's gonna play out as a huge nerf that wasn't even needed. I'm trying to tell people what will happen but hey I tried to warn them Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
sir RAVEN WING 3	Posted - 2015.05.29 21:20:00 - [30] - Quote demens grimwulff wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Assaults will still maintain their current sprint speed, just have lower movement speed. Which means lower strafing speed, therefore worse survivability. You don't lose a gunfight because of your hp, but because of how much you get hit vs how much you hit your target. Strafing is a vital tool in the bag of the assault... and it will now be given to logis and mandos... This is foolish. Assaults rely on killing ability, pure and simple. When engaged they grab cover, and shoot. Commandos rely on their two weapons to take a target out before they are killed. Scout rely on stealth, when engage they strafe to avoid their fragile frame getting destroyed. Sents rely on raw HP, they rush when engaged. Logistics rely on their killer. When engaged they can't really do much. Now, crying about how you can no longer take full advantage of horrid hit detection does not work. *Official Forum Bird* "Agony is the body cleansing itself." - Viktor Revon



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