DUST Search - Remove assault suits

demens grimwulff wrote:

Pokey Dravon wrote:

demens grimwulff wrote:

If I had to take the hit, I would say more damage would be required... I, honestly, see the assault being lost in the sauce unless they impose something heavy on the logi suits... i.e. all equipment must be filled, and you're total pg/cpu will be lowered, or else we will, once again, see the rain of the logi slayer.

For the sake of not filling the page with more quotes, I just grabbed this snippit

Very valid points again. I will admit that I have not played Minmatar Assault in a serious capacity so my opinion on its history isn't worth much. Regardless, I don't want to see certain suits get screwed because of this, so future testing will see if there are outliers and I think adjustments can be made accordingly.

Back to thoughts on bonuses in general, I kinda wanted to get your guys thoughts on this. I just kinda dropped some bonuses in there to get the conversation going, so if you have ideas, by all means speak up!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NpPu4PQmGuUNa-WfSb-8krX7G7jMV8T6juaEwxP7_jM/edit?usp=sharing

Maybe min assault gets 1% to explosive and 2 % to projectile, while commando gets the current bonus... something to add to the min assault, but not to make it OP with a bunch more damage on the explosives section... I remember the days of the flaylock and omg we don't need that back.

I will be collecting my thoughts (once the haze rolls out of my head from last night) and get something up on the boards for an alternate view of the ehp/speed curve.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Dreis ShadowWeaver 0uter.Heaven 4	Posted - 2015.05.30 07:09:00 - [61] - Quote Kaughst wrote: Ewar needs to bleed into Assault suits more than the Logi suits. Why? Creator of the 'Nova Knifers United' channel My Minja Blog Caldari blood, Matari heart <3
Kaughst Nyain San 829	Posted - 2015.05.30 10:30:00 - [62] - Quote Dreis ShadowWeaver wrote: Kaughst wrote: Ewar needs to bleed into Assault suits more than the Logi suits. Why? The scan range/precision needs to be above the Logis. Passive detection of enemies is paramount for the Assault not for Logi, Logi always operate behind the Assault. "Remember: no matter the circumstances, there will always be people willing to push you down a hole."
gustavo acosta Capital Acquisitions LLC 1	Posted - 2015.05.30 10:41:00 - [63] - Quote Kaughst wrote: Dreis ShadowWeaver wrote: Kaughst wrote: Ewar needs to bleed into Assault suits more than the Logi suits. Why? The scan range/precision needs to be above the Logis. Passive detection of enemies is paramount for the Assault not for Logi, Logi always operate behind the Assault. Lolno, there's way too many things going for the assault suit even with the movement speed nerf, to suggest there's any need for any buff to any assault suits is asinine. GimmeDatSuhWeet isk We found a new pope to teach shield users how to shield tank, all hail pope redblood the 6th
Krixus Flux Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 713	Posted - 2015.05.30 11:10:00 - [64] - Quote I enjoyed reading good points made by Demen, Pokey and Heim. Good discussion bros. fist bump I hope CCP listens and adjust. Saying what's on people's minds
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game 2	Posted - 2015.05.30 11:14:00 - [65] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Assaults will still maintain their current sprint speed, just have lower movement speed. This ^^ yet mercs are still getting their panties in a twist.. less movement speed = goodbye Assault thinking wiggle wiggle is an effective strategy And a note to the Cal Assault haters... Shield Regulators + Cover + Rapid Reload = Great ! Supress enemy, duck in cover recharge+reload, go back for round 2.I am sick of mercs QQing the Cal Assault because it does not do what the others can, God forbid we have some actual variation in the role available.. fk it, lets model them off the Ak.0 Kick reduction (the most commonly requested Ck.0 bonus) is an open invitation to stack Armour plates, don't do it! Te Sbundo'd
Scotty AI MatchMaker The Templis Dragonaurs 44	Posted - 2015.05.30 11:14:00 - [66] - Quote Your assault moving to fast? stack armour 'Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep.'
Cat Merc Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 17	Posted - 2015.05.30 11:22:00 - [67] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: EVERYONE CALM DOWN! The assaults will have less walking speed, but sprinting speed and strafing speed will remain the same according to CCP Rattati. Strafe speed is a modifier off of walking speed. Strafe speed will not remain the same. "Breakin, PS3's and PS4's can't mate. They're incompatible. Unlike Apache's and Cappuccino machines." - *Cat wisdom*
demens grimwulff Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 403	Posted - 2015.05.30 12:38:00 - [68] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: demens grimwulff wrote: If I had to take the hit, I would say more damage would be required... I, honestly, see the assault being lost in the sauce unless they impose something heavy on the logi suits... i.e. all equipment must be filled, and you're total pg/cpu will be lowered, or else we will, once again, see the rain of the logi slayer. For the sake of not filling the page with more quotes, I just grabbed this snippit Very valid points again. I will admit that I have not played Minmatar Assault in a serious capacity so my opinion on its history isn't worth much. Regardless, I don't want to see certain suits get screwed because of this, so future testing will see if there are outliers and I think adjustments can be made accordingly. Back to thoughts on bonuses in general, I kinda wanted to get your guys thoughts on this. I just kinda dropped some bonuses in there to get the conversation going, so if you have ideas, by all means speak up! https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NpPu4PQmGuUNa-WfSb-8krX7G7jMV8T6juaEwxP7_jM/edit?usp=sharing Maybe min assault gets 1% to explosive and 2 % to projectile, while commando gets the current bonus... something to add to the min assault, but not to make it OP with a bunch more damage on the explosives section... I remember the days of the flaylock and omg we don't need that back. I will be collecting my thoughts (once the haze rolls out of my head from last night) and get something up on the boards for an alternate view of the ehp/speed curve. As the archeology of our thought easily shows, man is an invention of recent date. And one perhaps nearing its end
Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 496	Posted - 2015.05.30 12:42:00 - [69] - Quote Heimdallr69 wrote: Krixus Flux wrote: CCP just pissed off Heim. "You know what, **** it!! You wanna gimp it?? Get rid of it!!" I've been gimped for 2 years and now when assaults are in a good place they want to go and over do it...Like I said buff the others and leave assaults alone or nerf assaults and leave the rest where they are...it's gonna play out as a huge nerf that wasn't even needed. I'm trying to tell people what will happen but hey I tried to warn them Lol classic ccp provokes classic Heimdallr69 reaction ..gg calm down buddy ..sell your ps3 get back on pc ..forget about dust The death of love
Monty Mole Clone Ametat Security Amarr Empire 289	Posted - 2015.05.30 14:24:00 - [70] - Quote or you could just pay for the thing you and many others ceaselessly campaigned for Dust 514 hurts Go Fabulous or go home

Heimdallr69 Negative-Feedback. 5	Posted - 2015.05.30 19:44:00 - [71] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Heimdallr69 wrote: I've been one since mordu's through the ups and downs and now we are buffing other suits and nerfing assaults so I was thinking why not just remove assaults and combine them with mandos..scouts will have speed followed by logis mandos heavies...No more high ehp speed suits, I think this would add more diversity as people would then need to use scouts for speed and mandos for slaying..I was against this but now I believe it might be the best solution, scouts = low hp but fast, logis low hp speed at current assaults, mandos slower than logis but faster than heavies..thoughts? Posted in the Speed/HP Thread ... Added "Heim's Model". Bridged the gap by adding HP to Logis and increasing Commando speed. This page is all yours, so let me know if you'd like to tweak any of the values. > Google Doc < I actually really like that one..I feel like with assaults gone the speed difference will make a nice effect..scouts will use speed logis will have their place then the slayers (mandos) won't have super speed and ehp where as assaults get rid of that speed difference..scouts fast low hp, logis not as fast low hp, mandos/heavies slower but better slayers..None of this 900ehp faster than scouts stuff anymore Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6	Posted - 2015.05.30 19:57:00 - [72] - Quote demens grimwulff wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: demens grimwulff wrote: If I had to take the hit, I would say more damage would be required... I, honestly, see the assault being lost in the sauce unless they impose something heavy on the logi suits... i.e. all equipment must be filled, and you're total pg/cpu will be lowered, or else we will, once again, see the rain of the logi slayer. For the sake of not filling the page with more quotes, I just grabbed this snippit Very valid points again. I will admit that I have not played Minmatar Assault in a serious capacity so my opinion on its history isn't worth much. Regardless, I don't want to see certain suits get screwed because of this, so future testing will see if there are outliers and I think adjustments can be made accordingly. Back to thoughts on bonuses in general, I kinda wanted to get your guys thoughts on this. I just kinda dropped some bonuses in there to get the conversation going, so if you have ideas, by all means speak up! https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NpPu4PQmGuUNa-WfSb-8krX7G7jMV8T6juaEwxP7_jM/edit?usp=sharing Maybe min assault gets 1% to explosive and 2 % to projectile, while commando gets the current bonus... something to add to the min assault, but not to make it OP with a bunch more damage on the explosives section... I remember the days of the flaylock and omg we don't need that back. I will be collecting my thoughts (once the haze rolls out of my head from last night) and get something up on the boards for an alternate view of the ehp/speed curve. Honestly I don't think more damage would make the Flaylock OP. It's still pretty skill-centric but I'd have to take a look at it again in the current meta. But yeah, do you see the general bonus structure I'm going for? Not only is is much more clean and uniform (which you know Rattati loves) but I think it adds some much needed oomph to the Assault's bonuses, and perhaps some tweaking to other roles to boost them up a bit. I've always subscribed to the fact that while base stats like speed and defense somewhat establlish a playstyle, it's really the bonuses that hammer in and establish exactly what that role does. This is why I'm in favor of the Defense-Mobility curve, but also think that Assault bonuses really need an overhaul because their current bonuses try, but really fail to establish that "THIS IS THE SUIT YOU USE TO KILL THE THINGS!" "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
Echo 1991 Dead Man's Game 826	Posted - 2015.05.30 19:58:00 - [73] - Quote Rather than changing speed stats, why not just take a slot away from the logis and give them more HP? Then give the commando a speed and slot buff. Assaults will be gimped if these proposed changes go ahead.
demens grimwulff Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 414	Posted - 2015.05.30 20:10:00 - [74] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Honestly I don't think more damage would make the Flaylock OP. It's still pretty skill-centric but I'd have to take a look at it again in the current meta. But yeah, do you see the general bonus structure I'm going for? Not only is is much more clean and uniform (which you know Rattati loves) but I think it adds some much needed oomph to the Assault's bonuses, and perhaps some tweaking to other roles to boost them up a bit. I've always subscribed to the fact that while base stats like speed and defense somewhat establlish a playstyle, it's really the bonuses that hammer in and establish exactly what that role does. This is why I'm in favor of the Defense-Mobility curve, but also think that Assault bonuses really need an overhaul because their current bonuses try, but really fail to establish that "THIS IS THE SUIT YOU USE TO KILL THE THINGS!" My post, on the matter, can be found here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2798637#post2798637 The reason why I am nervous about giving min assaults to high of an explosive damage modifier is two fold: 1) jump mods + extra explosive damage will lead to a really mobile, really lethal combination that could become pretty OP 2) I don't want there to be a perception of OP due to the damage increases, so I figured the staggered amount would be more likely to be accepted by the community (specifically since Min will get two weapon classes vs 1 for the rest) As the archeology of our thought easily shows, man is an invention of recent date. And one perhaps nearing its end
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3	Posted - 2015.05.30 22:08:00 - [75] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: let me make a gratuitous case for the assault I'd like to call special pleading 1)A logi shouldn't have only a missing sidearm to distinguish it as "not a frontline suit" 2)A scout shouldn't have only low starting HP to deem it as "not a frontline suit"(by this logic though, scouts should have more speed or HP to bring them into line with the HP curve, yes?) 3)Assaults are the premier frontline suit, so why SHOULDN'T they have a higher Speed/HP than other suits, since those are the primary stats for frontlining? 4)Assaults don't have the scanning properties of a Logi or Scout, nor the EQ slots, NOR the mass DPS of the Heavy, NOR the amazing weapon-based bonuses of the Commando(minassault and Amsault are a different story, as they define the assault well, having combat longevity bonuses) Please Ratatti, I was starting to seriously consider coming back as soon as finances and available tech allows, but this sudden derp has made me question whether or not i need to spend any more money into my Ps3 just for DUST. While it may not mean much to you, if this does indeed go through i won't respec, i'll simply take the SSD out of it and put in my PC. I am holding myself hostage until assaults get a buff! Yeah, assaults should be better than every other suit all the time - just because you were 'smart' and skilled into them rather than avoid noob traps like those **ing idiot logi suits or commandos (hah what a nub, why have all that HP when it takes you >40 seconds to get it all back, If you cant do it in under 10 seconds like my assaults do, you shouldn't be on the battlefield!). 1) Logi's aren't just 'missing a sidearm', they start with much lower base HP and much lower shield recharge values, comparatively more of their available fitting space is eaten up by equipment too, where assaults get a fitting cost reduction to better guns (allowing them to focus more on defensive modules). So your 'point' here is oversimplified and riddled with fallacies. 2) It doesn't - in most cases other than the caldari scout, the scout suit often spends a large portion of its fit on ewar mods and a cloak field which along with slot totals prevents them from mounting a lot of HP recovery or tank. The cal scout is the only scout with an absolutely wild inherent regen value on its primary tank So once again, your 'point' is oversimplified and false. 3) SPECIAL PLEADING. If Hp and mobility were the 'only' stats required to be good at frontlining, why aren't we seeing more sentinels with rifles & kincats? Or more commando's with kincats? Oh right because they aren't the only important stats - the ability to recover HP while still having 'acceptable'(aka high) hp/movement values and plenty of slots for 'utility' is what dominates frontlining. A change of .5m/s walking speed is not going to hurt assaults ability to 'frontline', it just means that their KDR's might drop a little because they wont be able to wigglewiggle as well. 4)All the assaults have good 'performace' based bonuses on their weapons - even the caldari, and the gallente's is mindblowingly powerful. But hey based on your previous points I can tell you're not interested in facts, you just want a crutch for awesomeness, like you've previously wanted with tanks. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.** I have a few alts.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6	Posted - 2015.05.31 01:41:00 - [76] - Quote demens grimwulff wrote: My post, on the matter, can be found here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2798637#post2798637 The reason why I am nervous about giving min assaults to high of an explosive damage modifier is two fold: 1) jump mods + extra explosive damage will lead to a really mobile, really lethal combination that could become pretty OP 2) I don't want there to be a perception of OP due to the damage increases, so I figured the staggered amount would be more likely to be accepted by the community (specifically since Min will get two weapon classes vs 1 for the rest) Fair points. I really hate the Jumping+Splash weapon crap we've been seeing. I mean to be fair the current Minmatar Bonus only applies to Projectiles right? Either way, the more I think about it the more I think the Assaults need some sort of damage bonus. I think simply giving them the +2% bonus in tandum with the speed change would be a good first step...it can always be changed later if it proves to be too much (though I don't think it will be). I mostly don't want every Assault player rushing over to Logi suits and having a repeat of last time, which basically ended in Logis getting castrated into the ground to prevent them from being effective in combat as a knee jerk reaction to prevent that behavior. Logistics need to be lethal, but Assaults need to be more lethal. I think Damage Output is going to be the most clean way we can establish this. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
Kaughst Nyain San 830	Posted - 2015.05.31 06:53:00 - [77] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: demens grimwulff wrote: My post, on the matter, can be found here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2798637#post2798637 The reason why I am nervous about giving min assaults to high of an explosive damage modifier is two fold: 1) jump mods + extra explosive damage will lead to a really mobile, really lethal combination that could become pretty OP 2) I don't want there to be a perception of OP due to the damage increases, so I figured the staggered amount would be more likely to be accepted by the community (specifically since Min will get two weapon classes vs 1 for the rest) Fair points. I really hate the Jumping+Splash weapon crap we've been seeing. I mean to be fair the current Minmatar Bonus only applies to Projectiles right? Either way, the more I think about it the more I think the Assaults need some sort of damage bonus. I think simply giving them the +2% bonus in tandum with the speed change would be a good first step...it can always be changed later if it proves to be too much (though I don't think it will be). I mostly don't want every Assault player rushing over to Logi suits and having a repeat of last time, which basically ended in Logis getting castrated into the ground to prevent them from being effective in combat as a knee jerk reaction to prevent that behavior. Logistics need to be lethal, but Assaults need to be more lethal. I think Damage Output is going to be the most clean way we can establish this. Honestly don't want the Min Assaults to have that either it was potential problem when people suggested it, now with the jumps it allows to have a suit less in line with the other Assaults. But honestly we just need to keep the Logi nerfed more if we don't want people jumping ship. "Remember: no matter the circumstances, there will always be people willing to push you down a hole."
jane stalin free dropships for newbs 310	Posted - 2015.05.31 10:38:00 - [78] - Quote To buff assaults you could increase the speed they change weapons , get grenades ready , reduce the stamina of melee strikes and reduce the delay of melee strikes and give them a bonus to sidearms


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