Assaults will be useless because their speed will reflect how much defense they have?

Assaults will still maintain their current sprint speed, just have lower movement speed.

Except Logistics have lower HP and get hit slightly less than Assaults. Commandos have more HP but are larger and easier to hit.

Wouldn't this mean similar survivability between all 3 groups?

EVERYONE CALM DOWN!

The assaults will have less walking speed, but sprinting speed and strafing speed will remain the same according to CCP Rattati.

While I agree this thread is thread is crazy and overreacting, I don't think there's anything wrong with the assault's current speed and HP. Though I don't think reduced walking speed will be a big deal.

As far as I know, Logistics will have exactly the same number of total slots as Assaults. Additionally it is my understanding that Rattati plans to try to make the resources for Assaults and Logistics the same, and then use fitting bonuses to allow them to fit more weapons/equipment depending on the role.

So If all of that holds true, Logistics will be incapable of having more HP than Assaults due to inferior base HP.



People who fit Kinkats do.

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Curious, would you guys feel better about speed reduction if Assaults got a damage perk similar to Commandos?

That might have been the case in the past, but it has not been that way since Rattati took over balancing, and he in fact was the one to undo many of the awful balancing that his predecessors did (for example, the flaylock pistol is actually good now).

Rattati posted detais about the nerf in his thread, just like he always posts threads detailing his balancing decisions. We have access to specifics of the nerf (like the fact that sprint and strafe speeds will remain intact), so there is no reason to be overreacting.

This is foolish.

Assaults rely on killing ability, pure and simple. When engaged they grab cover, and shoot.

Commandos rely on their two weapons to take a target out before they are killed.

Scout rely on stealth, when engage they strafe to avoid their fragile frame getting destroyed.

Sents rely on raw HP, they rush when engaged.

Logistics rely on their killer. When engaged they can't really do much.

Now, crying about how you can no longer take full advantage of horrid hit detection does not work.

Does that make any sense at all?

That one person's track record in balancing DOES outweigh the history when that one person is the ONLY ONE LEFT doing balancing. CCP is not found guilty of committing accounting fraud or any other criminal activity; your problem with CCP is a matter of their reputation, but Enron's was a matter of legal problems (and legal problems aren't erased by fixing one's reputation the way Rattati did for CCP's balancing of Dust), so this Enron analogy you whipped out is pretty ludicrous, and its even more silly given how there was no figure analogous to Rattati that took over to rectify the wrongdoing (the company just filed for bankruptcy and liquidated its assets).

This is like a US American distrusting a British person because of past oppression from colonial days. Not all histories are equally relevant, especially when comparing far past vs recent past.

I often disagree with his decisions, but from countless balancing passes with hotfixes I have learned Rattati has consistently kept his word. He starts with proposals which he then submits to the community for feedback, and based on the feedback he usually adjusts it. Once everything is finalized, he posts an announcement about what is going to change, and his announcements do not lie, or in anyway try to misrepresent what he actually wants to do. This has been the status quo for many months now, and there is no reason to doubt this balance pass will be any different in regards to truthfulness. This is not to say that the plans in regard to the assault speeds are finalized, because they're not, but at the current state of the debate, and Rattati 's position (which I should point out has gotten less severe for assaults) is no cause for this ridiculous and irresponsible panic-mongering I'm seeing.

Saying you doubt that even finalized numbers will translate into reality is basically an accusation of lying, and also unfounded by the history of his hotfixes. Even the old CCP balancing team never made it a habit of posting hotfix notes and patch notes that were blatantly untrue (and if they are wrong by accidents due to bugs, they try and fix it). I get being a disillusioned veteran (which I am), but this is just unfounded BS.

Walking speed reduction for assaults necessitating the complete removal of assaults is NOT a valid point, and frankly is a wild and frankly absurd leap in logic.

I'm out of this paranoid thread. Peace.

Well, in my personal experience thus far, the Minmatar Assault seems to over perform compared to the others, but again that's my anecdotal experience, I'm not sure what the hard data says about it. That aside, I feel the concept in general is sound, but if there are issues within the race after the fact, that can always be tweaked with changes to HP, fitting, ect. But again that's kind of one of those things you have to play test to figure out.

I mean here is the deal.....something had to happen to help the Logi's out, either it had to be more speed, or more HP. We've had More HP in the past and it was a disaster, so I think Rattati was trying to avoid that as much as he could.

I think a glaring issue is that the Assaults never really had anything unique about them aside from a really good HP/Speed ratio. Should they have gotten the speed nerf? Well, I personally like the cleanliness of the Defense to Mobility line, it provides a good baseline for future content, so in general I support it. However, if the Assaults are going to lose their really good Defense/Mobility ratio, they need something else that defines them and makes them unique, otherwise they'll just be a watered down version of some other role.

That's primarily why Im asking people "Lets assume the speed thing happens (cause it probably will). What would you like to see happen to the Assault to give it that unique and distinctive flair?"

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Also I just have to say, among the sea of people going on emotional fits, I really appreciate your ability to have a calm and rational discussion. So thank you for that.

I respec'd last night and damn nearly didnt spec back into Assaults. I'll almost certainly be scouting in the future. :(

For the sake of not filling the page with more quotes, I just grabbed this snippit

Very valid points again. I will admit that I have not played Minmatar Assault in a serious capacity so my opinion on its history isn't worth much. Regardless, I don't want to see certain suits get screwed because of this, so future testing will see if there are outliers and I think adjustments can be made accordingly.

Back to thoughts on bonuses in general, I kinda wanted to get your guys thoughts on this. I just kinda dropped some bonuses in there to get the conversation going, so if you have ideas, by all means speak up!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NpPu4PQmGuUNa-WfSb-8krX7G7jMV8T6juaEwxP7_jM/edit?usp=sharing

For the sake of not filling the page with more quotes, I just grabbed this snippit

Very valid points again. I will admit that I have not played Minmatar Assault in a serious capacity so my opinion on its history isn't worth much. Regardless, I don't want to see certain suits get screwed because of this, so future testing will see if there are outliers and I think adjustments can be made accordingly.

Back to thoughts on bonuses in general, I kinda wanted to get your guys thoughts on this. I just kinda dropped some bonuses in there to get the conversation going, so if you have ideas, by all means speak up!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NpPu4PQmGuUNa-WfSb-8krX7G7jMV8T6juaEwxP7_jM/edit?usp=sharing

Honestly I don't think more damage would make the Flaylock OP. It's still pretty skill-centric but I'd have to take a look at it again in the current meta. But yeah, do you see the general bonus structure I'm going for? Not only is is much more clean and uniform (which you know Rattati loves) but I think it adds some much needed oomph to the Assault's bonuses, and perhaps some tweaking to other roles to boost them up a bit.

I've always subscribed to the fact that while base stats like speed and defense somewhat establlish a playstyle, it's really the bonuses that hammer in and establish exactly what that role does. This is why I'm in favor of the Defense-Mobility curve, but also think that Assault bonuses really need an overhaul because their current bonuses try, but really fail to establish that "THIS IS THE SUIT YOU USE TO KILL THE THINGS!"