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Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8876	Posted - 2015.05.18 07:54:00 - [1] - Quote Alright, since it appears that actual inertia is off the table, can we have the strafe speeds reverted to 60% of base momove speed? The wiggle dance has more or less replaced tactical movement and use of cover. The mechanics here are terrible and damaging to players for whom ability to aim and fight properly has been replaced by needing to load up aim assist to compensate. I'd like to be able to turn off AA and aim please. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9777	Posted - 2015.05.18 12:27:00 - [2] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: 1. The wiggle dance has more or less replaced tactical movement and use of cover. 2. I'd like to be able to turn off AA and aim please. 1. Agreed. 2. Isn't there an option in Settings? Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 1538	Posted - 2015.05.18 13:51:00 - [3] - Quote What Adipem said. The strafing is utter stupidity. I can and have used it to win firefights, simply because if I don't I won't be able to kill the enemy who is strafing ridiculously fast enough. It's a bad mechanic and it sure as hell is not 'gun game.' Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 483	Posted - 2015.05.18 13:56:00 - [4] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: What Adipem said. The strafing is utter stupidity. I can and have used it to win firefights, simply because if I don't I won't be able to kill the enemy who is strafing ridiculously fast enough. It's a bad mechanic and it sure as hell is not 'gun game.' Would be more effective to remove hipfire magic sights Problem ******* solved for reals The death of love
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 1	Posted - 2015.05.18 14:20:00 - [5] - Quote Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: Kallas Hallytyr wrote: What Adipem said. The strafing is utter stupidity. I can and have used it to win firefights, simply because if I don't I won't be able to kill the enemy who is strafing ridiculously fast enough. It's a bad mechanic and it sure as hell is not 'gun game.' Would be more effective to remove hipfire magic sights Problem ******* solved for reals Well yeah, that could help too. The problems with current strafing are many: accuracy while moving is way too high; strafing speed is way too fast - using stationary cover and trying to aim is worthless comparatively. Reducing accuracy while moving would go a long way to help rid Dust of dance offs in the middle of a firefight. Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game 2	Posted - 2015.05.18 17:48:00 - [6] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: Kallas Hallytyr wrote: What Adipem said. The strafing is utter stupidity. I can and have used it to win firefights, simply because if I don't I won't be able to kill the enemy who is strafing ridiculously fast enough. It's a bad mechanic and it sure as hell is not 'gun game.' Would be more effective to remove hipfire magic sights Problem ******* solved for reals Well yeah, that could help too. The problems with current strafing are many: accuracy while moving is way too high; strafing speed is way too fast - using stationary cover and trying to aim is worthless comparatively. Reducing accuracy while moving would go a long way to help rid Dust of dance offs in the middle of a firefight. If Weapons could go into full recoil when fired while strafing. that might help So rather than firing 30 bullets before your aim is at all affected, strafing would cause it immediatly Te Sbundo'd
Indianna Pwns TERRA R1SING New Eden's Heros 114	Posted - 2015.05.18 21:58:00 - [7] - Quote Agreed. Mechanics which encourage people to rapidly strafe around in a circle to engage aim assist are silly and broken in my opinion. Also why even bother adding and aim down sight mechanic when you can hip fire people across the map (combat rifle I'm looking at you).
BLOOD Ruler Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2015.05.18 22:32:00 - [8] - Quote **** No, this isn't CoD it is Dust 514 Turn off aim assist and shoot them, adapt and get better at it. Where in real-life would a Super soldier trip from zig-zag dodging. We can't roll in this game and strafe is close to dodging you can get here. I'm sorry you can't hit a guy whom is trying to not get shot. Would it please you if this was not a game where you can't go left and right, zig-zagging. Dust is fast pace not some slow shooter. Decreasing strafe will not help you if you need them to stay still. Ps. I currently Trolling. Pss. I do not agree ye. No Escaping Reason, No Denying Purpose For We Know Without Purpose We World Not Exist The Purpose Of Life Is To End
VALCORE72 Vengeance Unbound RUST415 324	Posted - 2015.05.18 22:35:00 - [9] - Quote lol your kidding ? ccp couldn't balance water in a glass on a table with a note on how to. look at jump mods . nova knifes . shotguns . cooking nads . all still imbalanced . this game just needs to shut down or give it to someone who knows what there doing. its idea of a fps is beyond brilliant but in ccps hands it will always be coal.
Krias Thracian Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 11	Posted - 2015.05.18 22:45:00 - [10] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Alright, since it appears that actual inertia is off the table, can we have the strafe speeds reverted to 60% of base momove speed? The wiggle dance has more or less replaced tactical movement and use of cover. The mechanics here are terrible and damaging to players for whom ability to aim and fight properly has been replaced by needing to load up aim assist to compensate. I'd like to be able to turn off AA and aim please. Strafing is and has been a staple of FPS gameplay for some time and it's strength is amplified on a console shooter due to the natural imprecision of the control pad as a method for control in an FPS. Dust further reinforces movement as it's primary defense for various reasons. I'm far more concerned with the bunny hoppers who can jump anything up to 2-3 stories high than I am with strafing. The use of cover is dangerous in this game as you can be one-shotted with a great deal of ease even when pretty well tanked and warbarge strikes further compound issues with cover (barring snipers and other distance campers obviously) so that movement is just the best defense you can have. Part of that is the "wiggle dance" you seem to hate. People do so much damage that even in cover, any angle you can be shot at will kill you, with the general ineffectiveness of the radar (to encourage scanning, a very clever mechanic), no cover is truly safe as it would be in a more traditional FPS like one of the Halo Series for example. All of this pushes down the trend towards cover and tactical movement and pushes up the use of strafing and semi-randomised movement in the game. Combine this with remote explosives and mass drivers and other large splash damage weapons and cover is a very dangerous place to be, not inherently, but just because standing in one place is generally suicide. If you want to push it back the other way then you need to do more than just nerf movement, cover has to be reasonable and safer than it currently is. I have no idea how you would implement it, but I would buff cover so that if you're shot when you're in cover you get a form of damage resistance/hardening to your shields/armour. Cover dampens damage that comes from the side you are in cover or something similar to that. Off the top of my head I can't think of a reasonable way to implement this but I'm sure people here would have other ideas for buffing cover.

Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 1	Posted - 2015.05.18 23:21:00 - [11] - Quote Krias, if strafing speeds are slowed then cover becomes far more useful just inherently: less body to shoot is harder, so a target in cover vs a target in the open means a dead target in the open. Cover vs cover becomes an accuracy/flanking situation where whoever moves tactically (moving to leverage superior cover, higher ground, etc) the better player. Edit: speed remains useful as the one who can leverage cover faster and better wins. Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
Kierkegaard Soren Eridani Light Horse Battalion 808	Posted - 2015.05.18 23:32:00 - [12] - Quote Reduce the damage of all weapons so that your suit can actually take a hit if is designed to do so, remove aim assist and reduce strafe speed to 60% of base movement value. Allow kin cats to increase base movement speed so that speed tanking does not immediately die in a fire as a consequence of these changes, but instead forces the player to fit modules to gain that benefit at the the expense of other tanking styles and/or utility. I'm happy with speed as a valid defence mechanic, but the in the current meta brick-tanked min assaults rocking combat rifles just destroy everything with impunity. They sacrifice nothing for the speed, and the speed makes them tremendously hard to fight against. On the whole, armour, shield and speed need to be looked at again and rebalanced against one another properly. Dedicated Commando. "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing."
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9	Posted - 2015.05.18 23:32:00 - [13] - Quote Krias Thracian wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Alright, since it appears that actual inertia is off the table, can we have the strafe speeds reverted to 60% of base momove speed? The wiggle dance has more or less replaced tactical movement and use of cover. The mechanics here are terrible and damaging to players for whom ability to aim and fight properly has been replaced by needing to load up aim assist to compensate. I'd like to be able to turn off AA and aim please. Strafing is and has been a staple of FPS gameplay for some time and it's strength is amplified on a console shooter due to the natural imprecision of the control pad as a method for control in an FPS. Dust further reinforces movement as it's primary defense for various reasons. I'm far more concerned with the bunny hoppers who can jump anything up to 2-3 stories high than I am with strafing. The use of cover is dangerous in this game as you can be one-shotted with a great deal of ease even when pretty well tanked and warbarge strikes further compound issues with cover (barring snipers and other distance campers obviously) so that movement is just the best defense you can have. Part of that is the "wiggle dance" you seem to hate. People do so much damage that even in cover, any angle you can be shot at will kill you, with the general ineffectiveness of the radar (to encourage scanning, a very clever mechanic), no cover is truly safe as it would be in a more traditional FPS like one of the Halo Series for example. All of this pushes down the trend towards cover and tactical movement and pushes up the use of strafing and semi-randomised movement in the game. Combine this with remote explosives and mass drivers and other large splash damage weapons and cover is a very dangerous place to be, not inherently, but just because standing in one place is generally suicide. If you want to push it back the other way then you need to do more than just nerf movement, cover has to be reasonable and safer than it currently is. I have no idea how you would implement it, but I would buff cover so that if you're shot when you're in cover you get a form of damage resistance/hardening to your shields/armour. Cover dampens damage that comes from the side you are in cover or something similar to that. Off the top of my head I can't think of a reasonable way to implement this but I'm sure people here would have other ideas for buffing cover. Here's what strafing looked like before wiggle-wiggle was introduced: https://youtu.be/PYXffQMXXxM?t=74 ^ Deliberate evasive maneuvers. Quite effective when done right, and quite different from gyrating in place. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Kierkegaard Soren Eridani Light Horse Battalion 810	Posted - 2015.05.19 01:30:00 - [14] - Quote ^ Bring that back. It looks so much smoother, too. Dedicated Commando. "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing."
Nocturnal Soul Primordial Threat 6	Posted - 2015.05.19 01:46:00 - [15] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Krias Thracian wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Alright, since it appears that actual inertia is off the table, can we have the strafe speeds reverted to 60% of base momove speed? The wiggle dance has more or less replaced tactical movement and use of cover. The mechanics here are terrible and damaging to players for whom ability to aim and fight properly has been replaced by needing to load up aim assist to compensate. I'd like to be able to turn off AA and aim please. Strafing is and has been a staple of FPS gameplay for some time and it's strength is amplified on a console shooter due to the natural imprecision of the control pad as a method for control in an FPS. Dust further reinforces movement as it's primary defense for various reasons. I'm far more concerned with the bunny hoppers who can jump anything up to 2-3 stories high than I am with strafing. The use of cover is dangerous in this game as you can be one-shotted with a great deal of ease even when pretty well tanked and warbarge strikes further compound issues with cover (barring snipers and other distance campers obviously) so that movement is just the best defense you can have. Part of that is the "wiggle dance" you seem to hate. People do so much damage that even in cover, any angle you can be shot at will kill you, with the general ineffectiveness of the radar (to encourage scanning, a very clever mechanic), no cover is truly safe as it would be in a more traditional FPS like one of the Halo Series for example. All of this pushes down the trend towards cover and tactical movement and pushes up the use of strafing and semi-randomised movement in the game. Combine this with remote explosives and mass drivers and other large splash damage weapons and cover is a very dangerous place to be, not inherently, but just because standing in one place is generally suicide. If you want to push it back the other way then you need to do more than just nerf movement, cover has to be reasonable and safer than it currently is. I have no idea how you would implement it, but I would buff cover so that if you're shot when you're in cover you get a form of damage resistance/hardening to your shields/armour. Cover dampens damage that comes from the side you are in cover or something similar to that. Off the top of my head I can't think of a reasonable way to implement this but I'm sure people here would have other ideas for buffing cover. Here's what strafing looked like before wiggle-wiggle was introduced: https://youtu.be/PYXffQMXXxM?t=74 ^ Deliberate evasive maneuvers. Quite effective when done right, and quite different from gyrating in place while spraying aim-assisted hipfire. Still looks the same.. (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!! The Incursions are back... and they're golden baby!
Krias Thracian Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 12	Posted - 2015.05.19 09:24:00 - [16] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Krias Thracian wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Alright, since it appears that actual inertia is off the table, can we have the strafe speeds reverted to 60% of base momove speed? The wiggle dance has more or less replaced tactical movement and use of cover. The mechanics here are terrible and damaging to players for whom ability to aim and fight properly has been replaced by needing to load up aim assist to compensate. I'd like to be able to turn off AA and aim please. Strafing is and has been a staple of FPS gameplay for some time and it's strength is amplified on a console shooter due to the natural imprecision of the control pad as a method for control in an FPS. Dust further reinforces movement as it's primary defense for various reasons. I'm far more concerned with the bunny hoppers who can jump anything up to 2-3 stories high than I am with strafing. The use of cover is dangerous in this game as you can be one-shotted with a great deal of ease even when pretty well tanked and warbarge strikes further compound issues with cover (barring snipers and other distance campers obviously) so that movement is just the best defense you can have. Part of that is the "wiggle dance" you seem to hate. People do so much damage that even in cover, any angle you can be shot at will kill you, with the general ineffectiveness of the radar (to encourage scanning, a very clever mechanic), no cover is truly safe as it would be in a more traditional FPS like one of the Halo Series for example. All of this pushes down the trend towards cover and tactical movement and pushes up the use of strafing and semi-randomised movement in the game. Combine this with remote explosives and mass drivers and other large splash damage weapons and cover is a very dangerous place to be, not inherently, but just because standing in one place is generally suicide. If you want to push it back the other way then you need to do more than just nerf movement, cover has to be reasonable and safer than it currently is. I have no idea how you would implement it, but I would buff cover so that if you're shot when you're in cover you get a form of damage resistance/hardening to your shields/armour. Cover dampens damage that comes from the side you are in cover or something similar to that. Off the top of my head I can't think of a reasonable way to implement this but I'm sure people here would have other ideas for buffing cover. Here's what strafing looked like before wiggle-wiggle was introduced: https://youtu.be/PYXffQMXXxM?t=74 ^ Deliberate evasive maneuvers. Quite effective when done right, and quite different from gyrating in place while spraying aim-assisted hipfire. Looks pretty much like what I see in-game currently to me. What is it you are unhappy with in that case? Looking at it, that's a standard part of any FPS, if you're unhappy with that, then why do you play FPS Games as that's been a staple tactic for years (I remember doing that on Duke Nukem 3D Multiplayer)? My personal opinion is that I think the problem is actually the hit detection that is being masked by strafing. I've unloaded entire clips into people and know I should have hit and killed them, but the hits didn't register. That is a far bigger problem than the speed of strafing, which is actually about on par with most games from what I've seen. The lousy hit detection is one of the reasons splash weapons and HMG's are so powerful. If 30% [not an accurate figure, just an example] of your shots don't register on the target then splash weapons will deal with the miss more effectively and the massive ROF weapons will also partially account for it. I don't think Strafing is the problem you seem to think it is in this regard, or if it is then I don't know why you're playing an FPS on a console. I've never had a problem with strafing in the game. The game not registering when I've clearly hit someone, sure, but not strafing. Like I said in my earlier post, strafing is more powerful in a console shooter because a pad is a much less precise control method than a mouse. If you have a high-dpi mouse then strafing becomes less prevalent as you can turn much quicker than they can strafe. But that's the nature of a game. If you want cover to be more important then you have to buff cover, not nerf the only thing that will give you a semblance of safety when there is no cover.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8	Posted - 2015.05.19 09:52:00 - [17] - Quote Strafing by itself isnot, nor never has been a problem. The fact that there is no acceleration or deceleration when changing directions is the problem. DUST is pretty much the only game developed in the last decade with multiplayer where the lack of strafing inertia is a thing. This lack of inertia allows players to create hit detection artifacting that is thoroighly detrimental to gameplay while enjoying reticle magnetism to insure their own shots are dead on with aim assist. The wiggle strafing was almost impossible when strafe moves were at 60% base movement. Hit detection was bad, but it was possible to reliable kill soneone who decided to dance in front of you. The wiggle glitch detection problem surfaced when strafing was buffed to 90% base movement. Now the wiggle has replaced the proper use of cover, and intelligent movement entirely. If there was an inertia simulation, the wiggle strafe wouldnt be a problem even at that unrealistic movement. The human body can track an opponent whiwho is properly constrained by physics. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 1	Posted - 2015.05.19 10:14:00 - [18] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: The wiggle glitch detection problem surfaced when strafing was buffed to 90% base movement. Now the wiggle has replaced the proper use of cover, and intelligent movement entirely. If there was an inertia simulation, the wiggle strafe wouldnt be a problem even at that unrealistic movement. The human body can track an opponent whiwho is properly constrained by physics. This. Sideways movement (aka, strafing) is perfectly acceptable, but the current version of the game has it being the best way to survive/win a gunfight as opposed to actually thinking about how you're engaging your opponent (aka, using cover, moving tactically to put your opponent at a disadvantage, ETD) and that is a problem. As Breakin Stuff said, if inertia existed on dropsuits (again) then people would be able to track properly, immediately reducing the effectiveness of wiggling in place and increasing the value and utility of cover, while rewarding the use of your brain (by rewarding forward thinking when engaging an enemy) as well as rewarding manual dexterity (by rewarding the one with the best aim.) Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
Krias Thracian Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 13	Posted - 2015.05.19 11:00:00 - [19] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Strafing by itself isnot, nor never has been a problem. The fact that there is no acceleration or deceleration when changing directions is the problem. DUST is pretty much the only game developed in the last decade with multiplayer where the lack of strafing inertia is a thing. This lack of inertia allows players to create hit detection artifacting that is thoroighly detrimental to gameplay while enjoying reticle magnetism to insure their own shots are dead on with aim assist. The wiggle strafing was almost impossible when strafe moves were at 60% base movement. Hit detection was bad, but it was possible to reliable kill soneone who decided to dance in front of you. The wiggle glitch detection problem surfaced when strafing was buffed to 90% base movement. Now the wiggle has replaced the proper use of cover, and intelligent movement entirely. If there was an inertia simulation, the wiggle strafe wouldnt be a problem even at that unrealistic movement. The human body can track an opponent whiwho is properly constrained by physics. I can't disagree, but I still think the primary issue here is bad hit detection. I must admit, I haven't particularly noticed inertia as you describe on any FPS, but that might be the relatively low speeds involved, even 90% of base movement isn't massively fast so unless the inertia is unrealistically slow then I might not notice it. You say if there was an inertia simulation then it wouldn't be a problem. The same goes for accurate and correct hit detection. The problem wouldn't exist if they fixed hit detection. But hit detection has more far-reaching implications than just strafing. It's bad across the board. Strafing is one application, bad hit detection affects all levels of the game and like I said, if you fix the hit detection it's not an issue as you can still reliably kill someone. The last game I played before DT got a chap/chapette down to a fraction of their bar left, watched at least a dozen shots go right into their torso, they didn't drop. I went from full armour to nothing in that time. Give me correct and accurate hit detection over nerfing strafing is still my opinion.
Krias Thracian Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 13	Posted - 2015.05.19 11:07:00 - [20] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: The wiggle glitch detection problem surfaced when strafing was buffed to 90% base movement. Now the wiggle has replaced the proper use of cover, and intelligent movement entirely. If there was an inertia simulation, the wiggle strafe wouldnt be a problem even at that unrealistic movement. The human body can track an opponent whiwho is properly constrained by physics. This. Sideways movement (aka, strafing) is perfectly acceptable, but the current version of the game has it being the best way to survive/win a gunfight as opposed to actually thinking about how you're engaging your opponent (aka, using cover, moving tactically to put your opponent at a disadvantage, ETD) and that is a problem. As Breakin Stuff said, if inertia existed on dropsuits (again) then people would be able to track properly, immediately reducing the effectiveness of wiggling in place and increasing the value and utility of cover, while rewarding the use of your brain (by rewarding forward thinking when engaging an enemy) as well as rewarding manual dexterity (by rewarding the one with the best aim.) Please see my earlier post. The intelligent use of cover has far more problems than that. Movement is the more powerful method because standing still is suicide in this game. You can be reliably one-shotted even in cover with any amount sticking over the top, warbarge strikes turn cover into a joke and are easy ways to keep a massively dominant team on top and pad their kill scores as well as clear whole swathes of enemies as the movement system won't allow any but the stragglers to get out of range. Mass drivers, remote explosives, grenades, plasma cannons all do massive (or fast refiring in the case of mass drivers) splash damage which means that your best defense is movement. That simply will not change if you nerf strafing. All that will happen is that splash weapons will be even more powerful because inertia will prevent you clearing the splash zone. AOE weapons are artificially powerful in a game with pad controls because the accuracy of pad controls is orders of magnitude lower than a mouse and keyboard, they don't need a stealth buff, which is what will happen if you nerf movement in any meaningful way. If cover is to be reliable then it needs to actually be useful and at the moment it's far too easy to clear someone out from behind cover, which just means that movement is the go-to method for defense. That's the way it's gonna stay. Personally I'd prefer it if cover granted some kind of defensive bonus even when you're being shot, but I can't see how that would be implemented. Likewise I'd like to see very very powerful cover but destructible cover but again, I can't see an easy way to implement that in the current game. As I said, the problems people are having with strafing, to me, are due not to the power of strafing, but the inadequacies of any of the other methods of defense.

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8	Posted - 2015.05.19 11:23:00 - [21] - Quote None of your points address the problem. The ability to break hit detection on primary weapons regardless of range or skill is game diminishing. AoE area denial weapons do less DPS than any of the rifles, the HMG or laser rifles. If you can draw a bead and hit you can kill them faster than they can kill you. Area denial weapons are NOT a justification for keeping a mechanic that is only useful when encountering a automatic weapon. Moving through cover has alealways been the best defense against mass drivers and forge guns. This lazy, easy movement exploit detracts from the game. It adds nothing to the game except the potential for exploiting the lackluster hit detection. And bluntly AoE splash weapons exist to FLUSH THE RATS OUT OF COVER. Right tool for the right job. Right now every tool is used as a run 'n gun twitch toy rather than a tactical choice. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Krias Thracian Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 13	Posted - 2015.05.19 11:51:00 - [22] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: None of your points address the problem. The ability to break hit detection on primary weapons regardless of range or skill is game diminishing. AoE area denial weapons do less DPS than any of the rifles, the HMG or laser rifles. If you can draw a bead and hit you can kill them faster than they can kill you. Area denial weapons are NOT a justification for keeping a mechanic that is only useful when encountering a automatic weapon. Moving through cover has alealways been the best defense against mass drivers and forge guns. This lazy, easy movement exploit detracts from the game. It adds nothing to the game except the potential for exploiting the lackluster hit detection. And bluntly AoE splash weapons exist to FLUSH THE RATS OUT OF COVER. Right tool for the right job. Right now every tool is used as a run 'n gun twitch toy rather than a tactical choice. I'm not trying to address what you see as the problem. As I explained in my initial post, I don't see it as a problem. You say inertia has been a part of every FPS for 10 years. I don't agree, or if it is it's imperceptible which amounts to the same thing. I don't see the problem with strafing in its current format other than hit detection. AOE Splash weapons may well exist to flush people out of cover, but that diminishes cover and pushes movement to be more useful. You can't have it both ways, do you want to be able to easily flush people out, or do you want cover to be effective? As it currently stands cover is suicide because being stationary is suicide. That has been the same in any FPS for as long as I can remember. In other FPS games with a reliable radar it's less of an issue because you can see people trying to flank you. This game deliberately engineers an ineffective radar. Cover movement is still useful, breaking line of sight as you approach a target is still powerful, but there is so much AOE in the game and with hit detection as it is, AOE is more powerful than it should be. I agree with you that the ability to break hit detection is game breaking, but I propose to fix the underlying problem, which is the broken hit detection. If you fix that, then the problem you are experiencing with strafing goes away as damage is dealt reliably when you hit them. I don't agree that strafing is a problem.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8	Posted - 2015.05.19 11:59:00 - [23] - Quote You cannot physically track a target unconstraines by inertia. It is medical impossibility. And movement and cover must be combined, not one chosen over the other. AoE weapons and your problems with them have NOTHING to do with the topic. If you have nothing relevant or useful to add move along. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Krias Thracian Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 13	Posted - 2015.05.19 12:05:00 - [24] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: You cannot physically track a target unconstraines by inertia. It is medical impossibility. And movement and cover must be combined, not one chosen over the other. AoE weapons and your problems with them have NOTHING to do with the topic. If you have nothing relevant or useful to add move along. AOE Weapons are part of the topic as they are alternatives to a poor hit detection. You physically can track a target that is unconstrained by inertia because you are also unconstrained by inertia and there is no inertia to turning. Like I said, your problem is with hit detection. Fix that and the thing you are seeing as a problem will go away. As I already explained, I haven't seen the movement inertia you are claiming exists in any game I've seen in the past 10 years or ever. People get round it now in Dust and in other games because the problem is not a physical impossibility. Your statement is demonstrably false as people DO deal with it. If it were physically impossible then noone could deal with it, let's cut the dramatics eh? The problem you are talking about is the hit detection, the most visible glitch is strafing; to put it another way, strafing is the symptom, not the disease. If you fix the hit detection, people will stop the strafing you so detest because you will be able to kill them while they are doing it. You said it yourself that exploiting the hit detection is why they do it, so why are you proposing a nerf to strafing when it's clear that the problem is the hit detection?
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9	Posted - 2015.05.19 14:00:00 - [25] - Quote Krias Thracian wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Here's what strafing looked like before wiggle-wiggle was introduced: https://youtu.be/PYXffQMXXxM?t=74 ^ Deliberate evasive maneuvers. Quite effective when done right, and quite different from gyrating in place while spraying aim-assisted hipfire. Looks pretty much like what I see in-game currently to me. What is it you are unhappy with in that case? The video above was recorded in Chromosome, where (iirc) strafe speed was set to 60% of movement speed, HP pools were around half of today's and aim-assist was yet to have been implemented. I have no issue whatsoever with the deliberate evasive maneuvers illustrated above; the ability to place shots on target while executing these maneuvers absolutely and invariably required skill. What we see above is quite different from what we see today. Today, strafe speed is set to 90% of movement speed. Speed is perhaps not a problem on its own, but combined with Dust's lack of inertia/acceleration and today's higher HP levels, players are afforded opportunity to defy physics and (for example) evade a high percentage of point-blank HMG fire by "wiggling" in place. Unlike strafing, there is no thought or deliberate effort put into wiggling; players simply gyrate and spray while aim-assist aims for them. To answer your question directly, I am unhappy with the fact that players (myself included) are being rewarded for maximizing the effects of bad mechanics. I'm of the opinion that player skill, practice, planning and positioning should play a greater part in the outcome of a given fight than my ability to wiggle around while a robot aims my gun. TL;DR: Wiggling =/= Strafing Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Krias Thracian Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 16	Posted - 2015.05.19 14:34:00 - [26] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Krias Thracian wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Here's what strafing looked like before wiggle-wiggle was introduced: https://youtu.be/PYXffQMXXxM?t=74 ^ Deliberate evasive maneuvers. Quite effective when done right, and quite different from gyrating in place while spraying aim-assisted hipfire. Looks pretty much like what I see in-game currently to me. What is it you are unhappy with in that case? The video above was recorded in Chromosome, where (iirc) strafe speed was set to 60% of movement speed, HP pools were around half of today's and aim-assist was yet to have been implemented. I have no issue whatsoever with the deliberate evasive maneuvers illustrated above; the ability to place shots on target while executing these maneuvers absolutely and invariably required skill. What we see above is quite different from what we see today. Today, strafe speed is set to 90% of movement speed. Speed is perhaps not a problem on its own, but combined with Dust's lack of inertia/acceleration and today's higher HP levels, players are afforded opportunity to defy physics and (for example) evade a high percentage of point-blank HMG fire by "wiggling" in place. Unlike strafing, there is no thought or deliberate effort put into wiggling; players simply gyrate and spray while aim-assist aims for them. To answer your question directly, I am unhappy with the fact that players (myself included) are being rewarded for maximizing the effects of bad mechanics. I'm of the opinion that player skill, practice, planning and positioning should play a greater part in the outcome of a given fight than my ability to wiggle around while a robot aims my gun. TL;DR: Wiggling =/= Strafing As I said earlier. I don't disagree that the disease is a problem, but the remedy quoted is to fix a symptom that has legitimate use outside of this specific example [strafing]. The problem is hit detection. If you fix hit detection then it cannot be glitched in this manner and the "wiggle" will automatically stop as they cannot glitch the hit-detection by doing so and evade that high percentage of HMG shots at point blank range. Do I agree that there is a problem, yes. Do I agree that nerfing strafing is the solution? No. Nerfing movement only addresses a symptom, not the cause. Fix the cause and fix the hit detection in the game. It's the harder thing to fix, there's no denying that, but it's also the right fix because it fixes far more issues than this in the game.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8	Posted - 2015.05.19 15:06:00 - [27] - Quote Fixing hit detection means jack if you cannot center the reticle on the target long enough to put rounds in him. Because of how the glitch works even if hit detection were perfect, because there is no inertia to allow the shooter to react to the sudden direction change there will continue to be players who dadance between bullets. Either inertia (aacceleration and deceleration when you change direction) needs to be added or strafing speed needs to be dropped. Honestly the current strafing speed means that uncooked grenades will never be a significant threat and that it will always be easy to dance to the edge of splash falloff. Please tell me how this mechanic adds depth to the game other than adding another way for stat padding morons to push their KD rating without having to resort to actual thought or skill? WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Krias Thracian Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 16	Posted - 2015.05.19 15:19:00 - [28] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Fixing hit detection means jack if you cannot center the reticle on the target long enough to put rounds in him. Because of how the glitch works even if hit detection were perfect, because there is no inertia to allow the shooter to react to the sudden direction change there will continue to be players who dadance between bullets. Either inertia (aacceleration and deceleration when you change direction) needs to be added or strafing speed needs to be dropped. Honestly the current strafing speed means that uncooked grenades will never be a significant threat and that it will always be easy to dance to the edge of splash falloff. Please tell me how this mechanic adds depth to the game other than adding another way for stat padding morons to push their KD rating without having to resort to actual thought or skill? If they fix hit detection then you will just kill them as the waggling is glitching. Part of waggling means they are repeatedly going back and forth across your targeting reticle, but their hits aren't being counted. There will always be players that can dadance between bullets as you describe, but with glitch detection fixed they will be a tiny minority as it would require much much more skill than now. Is it ideal? No, but in a game there has to be some level of abstract and very skillful/dedicated players will always find a way to exploit that. Grenades aren't a threat in the way you're ascribing them, they're a threat because you get distracted chasing or trying to kill an individual and don't notice the grenade. A grenade that is seen to be thrown very rarely kills anyone from what I've seen in any FPS. It's the unseen one while you're too busy weaving or trying to chase someone to notice they dropped one and you ran over it. The waggle dance adds nothing, I can't argue that, but it's not only the waggle dance you harm by nerfing strafe speed in the way you're describing. Inertia is off the table [that you admit in the first post] and despite your statement to the contrary I haven't seen any evidence of its existence in any top-tier FPS games. I posted a video of one of the recent COD games that had a strafe speed that made Dust's look like a geriatric with rickets and no inertia.
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 1	Posted - 2015.05.19 15:33:00 - [29] - Quote Krias Thracian wrote: [qFix the cause and fix the hit detection in the game. It's the harder thing to fix, there's no denying that, but it's also the right fix because it fixes far more issues than this in the game. One issue with that is, how much of the problem is hit detection? I know it's not perfect,but when it's strafing and hit detection combined, how do you identify the problem? Regardless, strafing at 90% movement is an issue, and the big part of that is because it lets you evade fire in a manner that requires no thought - Dust isn't supposed to be a twitch shooter, it was marketed as a tactical one where your decisions matter. Strafing in its current form removes the need to think,because you can just wiggle in place and be fine. Yes, other games have strafing, but strafing doesn't let people dodge bullets. I know most dont like the comparison with Destiny, but they have excellent strafing gameplay: you can move sideways quickly enough to reach cover, but you simply cannot stand in the open and not die. There aren't any videos (that I'm aware of) that show what wiggling in Destiny looks like, but this is a great video that demonstrates what the kind of strafing that you're talking about: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYZn9tUc2Y0 In it, they're still moving side to side, and it's still important in throwing off your opponent, but they aren't tap dancing and avoiding shots - it's far closer to the video Adipem linked where the strafing is about timing it to make your opponent shoot the wrong way rather than just moving side to side ridiculously quickly and avoiding 50% of their shots. I actually play Destiny a lot now and I tried to wiggle strafe to see what it was like - it doesn't work, I barely moved at all. Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
Krias Thracian Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 16	Posted - 2015.05.19 15:38:00 - [30] - Quote I can't disagree, but when you nerf strafing universally in the way that has been proposed, you nerf both "legitimate" uses of the mechanic and the ones that are causing so much consternation. It just smacks of throwing the baby out with the bathwater because a more sophisticated way of dealing with the problem hasn't been found. Like I said, I don't disagree for one minute that the behaviour evinced is an issue, but I disagree strongly with throwing a universal nerf at the problem and telling the people who are using the tactic in a "legitimate" fashion to just deal with it as their nerf deals with another problem distinct from their specific tactic. That's not good game design.

Krias Thracian Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 16	Posted - 2015.05.19 15:51:00 - [31] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Yes, other games have strafing, but strafing doesn't let people dodge bullets. I know most dont like the comparison with Destiny, but they have excellent strafing gameplay: you can move sideways quickly enough to reach cover, but you simply cannot stand in the open and not die. There aren't any videos (that I'm aware of) that show what wiggling in Destiny looks like, but this is a great video that demonstrates what the kind of strafing that you're talking about: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYZn9tUc2Y0 In it, they're still moving side to side, and it's still important in throwing off your opponent, but they aren't tap dancing and avoiding shots - it's far closer to the video Adipem linked where the strafing is about timing it to make your opponent shoot the wrong way rather than just moving side to side ridiculously quickly and avoiding 50% of their shots. I actually play Destiny a lot now and I tried to wiggle strafe to see what it was like - it doesn't work, I barely moved at all. But wiggle strafe where you are literally tap-dancing in that manner doesn't really get you out of your opponents targeting reticle, he's not all that far out of it in the video (out of incident, props to that player, he is really good). The waggle-dancing in this [Dust] barely, if at all, gets outside of the reticle and so the problem must be hit detection. Whenever I come up against this the majority of my shots appear to hit, but no damage is registered, which to me indicates that the majority of the issue is hit detection. Number of shots hitting also seems to depend on the weapon, which would further point towards hit detection. To be honest, I don't come across it all that often, maybe once or twice a day will I die to it across 10 - 20 games played, but it's irritating enough to be a problem and I would imagine it's a much bigger problem at the higher tiers of competitive play. I'll freely admit I'm a little more casual, but my previous posts on the matter still stand for me.
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 1	Posted - 2015.05.19 16:13:00 - [32] - Quote Even at 60%, strafing 'legitimately' is entirely possible. Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
Krias Thracian Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 16	Posted - 2015.05.19 16:56:00 - [33] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Even at 60%, strafing 'legitimately' is entirely possible. Of course it is, but 1/3 speed cut is a hell of a nerf to have to swallow for the sake of 1 negative behaviour and smacks of overkill.
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 1	Posted - 2015.05.19 17:28:00 - [34] - Quote Krias Thracian wrote: Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Even at 60%, strafing 'legitimately' is entirely possible. Of course it is, but 1/3 speed cut is a hell of a nerf to have to swallow for the sake of 1 negative behaviour and smacks of overkill. Well, it does because we have fundamentally different opinions on how bad the current strafing mechanic is Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9	Posted - 2015.05.19 17:53:00 - [35] - Quote Krias Thracian wrote: Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Even at 60%, strafing 'legitimately' is entirely possible. Of course it is, but 1/3 speed cut is a hell of a nerf to have to swallow for the sake of 1 negative behaviour and smacks of overkill. Krias makes a good point; I'm inclined to agree. Ideally, we'll should try to find a way to fix wiggling without penalizing legitimate strafing. If that isn't possible and/or hit detection improvements are out-of-reach, then it'd likely be best to slowly dial down strafe speeds until wiggling becomes less effective. Legitimate strafing would be impacted by strafe speed reduction, and we should try to minimize that impact where possible. Note: Aim Assist was implemented after 90% strafe speed was introduced. For all we know, AA may perfectly track 60% strafe speed. If no other options are tenable, and it is concluded that strafe speed reduction is the best way to address wiggle, I'd suggest we start with 90% --> 85% rather than 90% --> 60%. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Kaeru Nayiri Ready to Play 1	Posted - 2015.05.19 18:06:00 - [36] - Quote TheD1CK wrote: Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: Kallas Hallytyr wrote: What Adipem said. The strafing is utter stupidity. I can and have used it to win firefights, simply because if I don't I won't be able to kill the enemy who is strafing ridiculously fast enough. It's a bad mechanic and it sure as hell is not 'gun game.' Would be more effective to remove hipfire magic sights Problem ******* solved for reals Well yeah, that could help too. The problems with current strafing are many: accuracy while moving is way too high; strafing speed is way too fast - using stationary cover and trying to aim is worthless comparatively. Reducing accuracy while moving would go a long way to help rid Dust of dance offs in the middle of a firefight. If Weapons could go into full recoil when fired while strafing. that might help So rather than firing 30 bullets before your aim is at all affected, strafing would cause it immediatly Completely agree with Break'n. Both Kallas and TheD have some great ideas here. +1s If I may offer my own, on the topic of inertia: PROPOSAL You do not need true-to-physics deceleration and acceleration to fix this problem. One piece alone would kill the wiggle-hit-detection-break-dance. Without changing the current mechanics of the game, simply change the rate at which you accelerate when you BEGIN a strafe (or any new vector of movement). There is no need for deceleration when you stop. Allow mercs to come to dead stops just as they do now, the magic should only be when beginning a strafe, there should be a minor ramp-up to speed. That alone would be enough to help hit detection and would "simulate" inertia without necessarily being as complex. I'm almost certain this is already coded into the game because I doubt we reach max speed instantly when sprinting forward (I suppose I could be wrong about this, I am going by anecdotal feel). Know what cannot be known.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9	Posted - 2015.05.19 18:48:00 - [37] - Quote Kaeru Nayiri wrote: PROPOSAL You do not need true-to-physics deceleration and acceleration to fix this problem. One piece alone would kill the wiggle-hit-detection-break-dance. Without changing the current mechanics of the game, simply change the rate at which you accelerate when you BEGIN a strafe (or any new vector of movement). There is no need for deceleration when you stop. Allow mercs to come to dead stops just as they do now, the magic should only be when beginning a strafe, there should be a minor ramp-up to speed. That alone would be enough to help hit detection and would "simulate" inertia without necessarily being as complex. Agreed. Acceleration / Inertia would be the best way to cure the wiggle. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8	Posted - 2015.05.19 20:47:00 - [38] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Kaeru Nayiri wrote: PROPOSAL You do not need true-to-physics deceleration and acceleration to fix this problem. One piece alone would kill the wiggle-hit-detection-break-dance. Without changing the current mechanics of the game, simply change the rate at which you accelerate when you BEGIN a strafe (or any new vector of movement). There is no need for deceleration when you stop. Allow mercs to come to dead stops just as they do now, the magic should only be when beginning a strafe, there should be a minor ramp-up to speed. That alone would be enough to help hit detection and would "simulate" inertia without necessarily being as complex. Agreed. Acceleration on directional change would be a wonderful way to cure the wiggle. the ideal way but I know it was sent for tech eval, but no word has come back on it. for months. Leading me to assume it's not in the cards. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Kaeru Nayiri Ready to Play 1	Posted - 2015.05.20 17:33:00 - [39] - Quote I was under the impression that it was full blown inertia that was sent for evaluation. Am I mistaken? Know what cannot be known.
THUNDERGROOVE Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 1	Posted - 2015.05.20 18:05:00 - [40] - Quote I agree to to whole more recoil/spread while strafing. Every time I go back and play a Battlefield game I die probably 5 or so times before I get back into the don't strafe mentality. The only thing I really seeing being a problem because of this is that it will be very difficult to ~~mitigate HMG damage~~I guess the heavy can be shot at by multiple people. Mace yourself, blame someone else itGÇÖs okay, no one will believe you AIV member.

THUNDERGROOVE Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 1	Posted - 2015.05.20 18:06:00 - [41] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Krias Thracian wrote: Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Even at 60%, strafing 'legitimately' is entirely possible. Of course it is, but 1/3 speed cut is a hell of a nerf to have to swallow for the sake of 1 negative behaviour and smacks of overkill. Krias makes a good point; I'm inclined to agree. Ideally, we'll should try to find a way to fix wiggling without penalizing legitimate strafing. If that isn't possible and/or hit detection improvements are out-of-reach, then it'd likely be best to slowly dial down strafe speeds until wiggling is remedied. We should try to minimize the impact to legitimate strafing where possible. Also, Aim Assist was implemented after 90% strafe speed was introduced. For all we know, AA may perfectly track 60% strafe speed. If no other options are tenable, and it is concluded that strafe speed reduction is the best way to address wiggle, I'd suggest we start with 90% --> 85% (and see what happens) rather jumping straight from 90% to 60%. AA and bullet magnetism are adjustable(hotfixable) on a per weapon basis Mace yourself, blame someone else itGÇÖs okay, no one will believe you AIV member.
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 2	Posted - 2015.05.20 18:23:00 - [42] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Alright, since it appears that actual inertia is off the table, can we have the strafe speeds reverted to 60% of base momove speed? The wiggle dance has more or less replaced tactical movement and use of cover. The mechanics here are terrible and damaging to players for whom ability to aim and fight properly has been replaced by needing to load up aim assist to compensate. I'd like to be able to turn off AA and aim please. But there IS inertia. Provable by close video examination. It is just very very barely noticable. Looking at both sides of the coin. Even Aurum one.
THUNDERGROOVE Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 1	Posted - 2015.05.20 19:03:00 - [43] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: But there IS inertia. Provable by close video examination. It is just very very barely noticable. Are you sure it's not a combination of input lag and the inability of moving the stick to one side or the other instantly? Mace yourself, blame someone else itGÇÖs okay, no one will believe you AIV member.
Imp Smash Molon Labe. RUST415 848	Posted - 2015.05.21 07:33:00 - [44] - Quote I'm for it and against it to be honest. I mean, in every other FPS in the world forward walk speed and sidestep speed is the same. And it works. Why is it broken ONLY in Dust? It would be illogical to state that people can't track sidestepping targets -- because people do so just fine in literally hundreds of other games. I would say it is because of the way the netcode and hit detection interact. So while reducing strafe speed would definitely ameliorate the problem, the problem is still there. If possible, wouldn't it be better if CCP focused on making hit detection and netcode interact better be a better fix? Cause I'll tell ya what, I am sick and tired of putting a laser beam into a guy, and having him sidestep across the constant non stop beam 4 times yet take 0 damage. At the same time, I don't want that guy to be unable to sidestep reasonably...weapons DPS is actually pretty high and TTK would drop significantly without the current accuracy issues.
Starlight Burner Arrary of Clusters 267	Posted - 2015.05.21 09:08:00 - [45] - Quote Hit Detection should be fixed first. If they remove Aim Assist, I will not play DUST until M&K input lag is fixed. You don't play a FPS game with a controller with no AA. Thats just stupid. CEO of Arrary of Clusters, a close relations corporation Caldari Factional Warfare, enlist today! Thank you for DUST
Regnier Feros Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 368	Posted - 2015.05.21 11:22:00 - [46] - Quote Starlight Burner wrote: You don't play a FPS game with a controller with no AA. Why not? ZariaOwnsWhips
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8	Posted - 2015.05.21 12:01:00 - [47] - Quote Starlight Burner wrote: Hit Detection should be fixed first. If they remove Aim Assist, I will not play DUST until M&K input lag is fixed. You don't play a FPS game with a controller with no AA. Thats just stupid. Who suggested removing aim assist? I'd like to be able to run without it. Currently it is the only way to partially compensate for the strafe wiggle and even tthen only barely. Being able to turn it off without negative consequence is what I want. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 2	Posted - 2015.05.21 13:35:00 - [48] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: But there IS inertia. Provable by close video examination. It is just very very barely noticable. Are you sure it's not a combination of input lag and the inability of moving the stick to one side or the other instantly? Yes, very sure about that. I made sure that the character is on maximum movement input 100% of the time. Normally if you strafe to one direction, your crosshairs deviate some amount. If you stop, crosshairs get tighter again. Now, if you change strafe from left to right, the crosshairs get tighter for a very small moment before widening again. This indicates that there is a brief moment of non-maximum movement which in turns indicates there is inertia or simple acceleration going on. Note that this happens even when the input is non-stop. Looking at both sides of the coin. Even Aurum one.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9	Posted - 2015.05.21 13:44:00 - [49] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: THUNDERGROOVE wrote: KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: But there IS inertia. Provable by close video examination. It is just very very barely noticable. Are you sure it's not a combination of input lag and the inability of moving the stick to one side or the other instantly? Yes, very sure about that. I made sure that the character is on maximum movement input 100% of the time. Normally if you strafe to one direction, your crosshairs deviate some amount. If you stop, crosshairs get tighter again. Now, if you change strafe from left to right, the crosshairs get tighter for a very small moment before widening again. This indicates that there is a brief moment of non-maximum movement which in turns indicates there is inertia or simple acceleration going on. Note that this happens even when the input is non-stop. If you're right -- if inertia is on but set so low that it is barely perceptible -- it stands to reason that they can turn it up. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Damodred Matari Heavy Support INC 182	Posted - 2015.05.21 14:14:00 - [50] - Quote "The wiggle dance has more or less replaced tactical movement and use of cover" It has always been this way you scumbag goon. Shut fi yuh mout before mi bax yuh Thank you for playing the wheel of fortune.

Thumb Green The Valyrian Mercenary Army 2	Posted - 2015.05.21 14:21:00 - [51] - Quote Yes, let's treat the symptom instead of the cause. I see you're following the old Dust team's philosophy and I agree, why actually fix the problem when we can just cover it up; so much easier that way. You know, it's kind of funny nobody complained about strafing back in Chrome when hit detection was 10x worse than what we have now and you could strafe around 5-6 guys without fear, oh and back then strafe speed was 100% movement speed; it was only moving backwards that was slowed. Maybe back then we knew that something that's been in FPS's since the first FPS isn't the problem. I got a lot of stuff you want and could just have if it weren't for the trade tax. Rated [TV-MA]
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9	Posted - 2015.05.21 14:36:00 - [52] - Quote Thumb Green wrote: Yes, let's treat the symptom instead of the cause. I see you're following the old Dust team's philosophy and I agree, why actually fix the problem when we can just cover it up; so much easier that way. You know, it's kind of funny nobody complained about strafing back in Chrome when hit detection was 10x worse than what we have now and you could strafe around 5-6 guys without fear, oh and back then strafe speed was 100% movement speed; it was only moving backwards that was slowed. Maybe back then we knew that something that's been in FPS's since the first FPS isn't the problem. Back in Chrome, it didn't take 3/4s of clip to down a dancing medframe. HP levels were lower and (when they hit) weapons hit harder. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8	Posted - 2015.05.21 15:22:00 - [53] - Quote Damodred Matari wrote: "The wiggle dance has more or less replaced tactical movement and use of cover" It has always been this way you scumbag goon. What's this I hear? The mating call of one dreaming of becoming one of the space elite, yet doomed to forever be oppressed? WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8	Posted - 2015.05.21 15:24:00 - [54] - Quote Thumb Green wrote: Yes, let's treat the symptom instead of the cause. I see you're following the old Dust team's philosophy and I agree, why actually fix the problem when we can just cover it up; so much easier that way. You know, it's kind of funny nobody complained about strafing back in Chrome when hit detection was 10x worse than what we have now and you could strafe around 5-6 guys without fear, oh and back then strafe speed was 100% movement speed; it was only moving backwards that was slowed. Maybe back then we knew that something that's been in FPS's since the first FPS isn't the problem. This is a textbook e ample of a post made without any sort of fact-checking. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Thumb Green The Valyrian Mercenary Army 2	Posted - 2015.05.21 15:27:00 - [55] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Back in Chrome, it didn't take 3/4s of clip to down a dancing medframe. HP levels were lower and weapons hit harder. Wiggling seldom saved a merc caught offguard from behind ... which is the complete opposite of what is happening today. * Also, strafe speed was much slower than forward movement speed in Chromosome; it increased to 90% in early Uprising. Did we play the same Chrome? The only people you could kill in a clip where the people that stood still; anyone that was moving required at least one reload. And no, only the back peddle speed got an increase because it was the same speed as walking backwards in the MQ. Now strafe speed did eventual get a buff but that was after it was nerfed after Chrome and everyone flipped their sh!t over it. The TTK is way shorter than it was back then and the only reason wiggling saves anyone now is because they never properly fixed hit detection. I got a lot of stuff you want and could just have if it weren't for the trade tax. Rated [TV-MA]
Thumb Green The Valyrian Mercenary Army 2	Posted - 2015.05.21 15:29:00 - [56] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Thumb Green wrote: Yes, let's treat the symptom instead of the cause. I see you're following the old Dust team's philosophy and I agree, why actually fix the problem when we can just cover it up; so much easier that way. You know, it's kind of funny nobody complained about strafing back in Chrome when hit detection was 10x worse than what we have now and you could strafe around 5-6 guys without fear, oh and back then strafe speed was 100% movement speed; it was only moving backwards that was slowed. Maybe back then we knew that something that's been in FPS's since the first FPS isn't the problem. This is a textbook e ample of a post made without any sort of fact-checking. And this is a textbook example of a thread that's trying to push an asinine but easy fix to a symptom rather than fixing the actual problem. Edit: The old team would be proud of you. I got a lot of stuff you want and could just have if it weren't for the trade tax. Rated [TV-MA]
Ares 514 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1	Posted - 2015.05.21 15:31:00 - [57] - Quote Thumb Green wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Back in Chrome, it didn't take 3/4s of clip to down a dancing medframe. HP levels were lower and weapons hit harder. Wiggling seldom saved a merc caught offguard from behind ... which is the complete opposite of what is happening today. * Also, strafe speed was much slower than forward movement speed in Chromosome; it increased to 90% in early Uprising. Did we play the same Chrome? The only people you could kill in a clip where the people that stood still; anyone that was moving required at least one reload. And no, only the back peddle speed got an increase because it was the same speed as walking backwards in the MQ. Now strafe speed did eventual get a buff but that was after it was nerfed after Chrome and everyone flipped their sh!t over it. The TTK is way shorter than it was back then and the only reason wiggling saves anyone now is because they never properly fixed hit detection. lol, i do recall jumping around reloading sometimes to take some people out. Think my record was three reloads on one epic fight with a guy. Overlord of Broman
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8	Posted - 2015.05.21 15:34:00 - [58] - Quote Thumb Green wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Thumb Green wrote: Yes, let's treat the symptom instead of the cause. I see you're following the old Dust team's philosophy and I agree, why actually fix the problem when we can just cover it up; so much easier that way. You know, it's kind of funny nobody complained about strafing back in Chrome when hit detection was 10x worse than what we have now and you could strafe around 5-6 guys without fear, oh and back then strafe speed was 100% movement speed; it was only moving backwards that was slowed. Maybe back then we knew that something that's been in FPS's since the first FPS isn't the problem. This is a textbook e ample of a post made without any sort of fact-checking. And this is a textbook example of a thread that's trying to push an asinine but easy fix to a symptom rather than fixing the actual problem. Actually learn to read. My reasoning is posted and clear. You trying to derail the topic with uunconstructive ranting isn't Going to change the fact that inertia and hit detection aren't on the agenda Any time in the future, no matter how many times I and people like me have called for it. Since it's obvious that an actual ficfix is a forlorn hope at this point I'll take damage control. So do you have anything yseful to add to the topic, or are you just here to sh*tpost vigorously to protect the wiggle dance? WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Thumb Green The Valyrian Mercenary Army 2	Posted - 2015.05.21 15:43:00 - [59] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Actually learn to read. My reasoning is posted and clear. You trying to derail the topic with unconstructive ranting isn't Going to change the fact that inertia and hit detection aren't on the agenda Any time in the future, no matter how many times I and people like me have called for it. Since it's obvious that an actual fix is a forlorn hope at this point I'll take damage control. So do you have anything useful to add to the topic, or are you just here to sh*tpost vigorously to protect the wiggle dance? The only sh!t posts are the ones supporting this asinine idea. Your damage control was already tried and it hurt the game. I got a lot of stuff you want and could just have if it weren't for the trade tax. Rated [TV-MA]
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9	Posted - 2015.05.21 15:45:00 - [60] - Quote As I recall, bulletweaving in Chrome was better accomplished by sprinting and bunnyhopping than by strafing. Either way, solid Hit Detection has never been among Dust's strengths. If HD improvement is low-hanging fruit, then go for it. Why not? If it isn't (which seems more likely) then inertia/acceleration is our next best bet. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8	Posted - 2015.05.21 15:45:00 - [61] - Quote Thumb Green wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Actually learn to read. My reasoning is posted and clear. You trying to derail the topic with unconstructive ranting isn't Going to change the fact that inertia and hit detection aren't on the agenda Any time in the future, no matter how many times I and people like me have called for it. Since it's obvious that an actual fix is a forlorn hope at this point I'll take damage control. So do you have anything useful to add to the topic, or are you just here to sh*tpost vigorously to protect the wiggle dance? The only sh!t posts are the ones supporting this asinine idea. Your damage control was already tried and it hurt the game. No it hasn't. Shield suits went untouched while the suits that never were good at it in the first place got nerfed. You done yet, or are you going to keep shouting not-facts at everyone till we agree with you? WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Thumb Green The Valyrian Mercenary Army 2	Posted - 2015.05.21 15:50:00 - [62] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Thumb Green wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Actually learn to read. My reasoning is posted and clear. You trying to derail the topic with unconstructive ranting isn't Going to change the fact that inertia and hit detection aren't on the agenda Any time in the future, no matter how many times I and people like me have called for it. Since it's obvious that an actual fix is a forlorn hope at this point I'll take damage control. So do you have anything useful to add to the topic, or are you just here to sh*tpost vigorously to protect the wiggle dance? The only sh!t posts are the ones supporting this asinine idea. Your damage control was already tried and it hurt the game. No it hasn't. Shield suits went untouched while the suits that never were good at it in the first place got nerfed. You done yet, or are you going to keep shouting not-facts at everyone till we agree with you? Yes it was and now all your doing is the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears going "la la la I can't hear you la la la I'm not listening la la la" I got a lot of stuff you want and could just have if it weren't for the trade tax. Rated [TV-MA]
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8	Posted - 2015.05.21 16:00:00 - [63] - Quote When you produce facts and not anecdote I may take you seriously. But considering your posts have been the rough equivalent of spkr4thedead posts in content and usefulness I'll be shocked. I'm advocating reversing strafing to chrome speeds. Past that, I dont see a better alternative that CCP will consider. How about you, oh genius? Wow us with your magic brilliance and give us the solution that CCP might actually implement. Your Name isn't one I have ever recognized as a bringer of ideas. Prove me wrong. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Thumb Green The Valyrian Mercenary Army 2	Posted - 2015.05.21 16:09:00 - [64] - Quote Pushing the easy fix that only masked the problem is what screwed the game up and is what makes Rattati's job harder than it should be. But whatever, if you want to repeat the same mistakes as the original team then fcking go for it. Butcher the FPS part of this game I don't care anymore. I got a lot of stuff you want and could just have if it weren't for the trade tax. Rated [TV-MA]
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8	Posted - 2015.05.21 16:11:00 - [65] - Quote Thumb Green wrote: Pushing the easy fix that only masked the problem is what screwed the game up and is what makes Rattati's job harder than it should be. But whatever, if you want to repeat the same mistakes as the original team then fcking go for it. Butcher the FPS part of this game I don't care anymore. That's nice. I've given up on actual core gameplay fixes too. It hurts less when you accept that the only fruit we get hangs very low. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
XxVEXESxX 68	Posted - 2015.05.21 16:21:00 - [66] - Quote Your cries will go unheard. A blue has never commented on strafe or hit detection and I doubt they ever will. Everyone cries hit detection but its more like net code, ping and latency issues which I guess you will consider to be "hit detection". Ive put people down in the right ttk and then others seem immortal as if their body is not where they "really" are. Shield hit animations, hit markers and not a single hit everytime which ironically happen with the same people. My advice. Just quit battle when you see them. Dust has known exploits in the strafe mechanism that they (ccp) have ither refused or are unaware of fixing. Bitter vets advice. Lol. Happy hunting. PSN: XxVEXESxX MK.0 A/C/L "EVE Quality Dust"
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8	Posted - 2015.05.21 16:24:00 - [67] - Quote XxVEXESxX wrote: Your cries will go unheard. A blue has never commented on strafe or hit detection and I doubt they ever will. I chalk my interest in the topic up to masochistic urges. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Imp Smash Molon Labe. RUST415 852	Posted - 2015.05.22 23:35:00 - [68] - Quote I'm fairly sure hit detection is more an issue of how the game compensates for lag than anything. If I am not mistaken, they use a hit scan system. With few exceptions, no bullet travel time. So, to fix hit detection they would have to change either the interpolation and extrapolation interplay OR change which parts of the game are client side and which are serverside.. And I am guessing that is technically unfeasible. Pasta code and whatnot. So, I understand the desire to do damage control. I am in the camp of fix hit detection and core gameplay issues and always have been. But I'll take what I can get that helps practically speaking even if I am not for the...moral? (whats the right word here?) implications. If we accept that inertia is impossible and hit detection is unreasonable, then we are left with slower strafing or stronger aim assist and kitten any more mommakitten aim assist. Guess I am with ya on this one Breakin.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8	Posted - 2015.05.23 00:10:00 - [69] - Quote Imp Smash wrote: Guess I am with ya on this one Breakin. This is one of those rare times where I feel dirty for having support, but yeah. any improvement we can get, right? WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.


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