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Koldy Lyte Marven
DUST University
Ivy League
61
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Posted - 2015.04.21 03:44:00 -
[1] - Quote
Seriously... please give me a constructive answer...
( -í° -£-û -í°)
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Twelve Guage
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
530
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Posted - 2015.04.21 03:46:00 -
[2] - Quote
Because space magic.
Sandwich maker LVL. 5
You've been like by Twelve Gauge = her grabbing your @$$.
My like button is back. C:<
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Scheneighnay McBob
And the ButtPirates
6133
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Posted - 2015.04.21 03:47:00 -
[3] - Quote
Hmm, thought they changed that.
They wanted Amarr logis to be frontline-y to fit the amarr.
Why it's just the Amarr and not Gallente is beyond me. Perhaps it's because they figured the plasma pistol is worthless anyway.
Some details can be ignored
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Scheneighnay McBob
And the ButtPirates
6133
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Posted - 2015.04.21 03:48:00 -
[4] - Quote
Twelve Guage wrote:Because space magic.
It's called biotics! Gawd.
Some details can be ignored
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Koldy Lyte Marven
DUST University
Ivy League
61
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 03:48:00 -
[5] - Quote
Twelve Guage wrote:Because space magic.
Thanks you for being constructive. I appreciate. This wasn't sarcasm. But my last sentence was sarasm. Use your brain, if you have one, to understand what I mean by this.
( -í° -£-û -í°)
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Cat Merc
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
16019
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Posted - 2015.04.21 03:49:00 -
[6] - Quote
Because old CCP did stuff without even thinking, and people got attached to that.
Nothing more than that.
Cat Merc for C¦¦P¦¦M¦¦9¦¦ CPM Nyan!
Vote 'Keshava' for the new Gallente vehicle name!
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Forever ETC
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
982
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Posted - 2015.04.21 03:50:00 -
[7] - Quote
They're considered the combat logi, if you feel this is "unfair" be happy to know they're only good at ADV level.
PIE
Lasers4life
"See these marks... Don't overheat your gun"
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Koldy Lyte Marven
DUST University
Ivy League
61
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 03:52:00 -
[8] - Quote
Forever ETC wrote:They're considered the combat logi, if you feel this is "unfair" be happy to know they're only good at ADV level.
Well I'd like Matars to be combat Logis too. Sometimes, I struggle to kill a scout with my RS-90, and I don't like the BK-42, so I just wish I had my SMG.
( -í° -£-û -í°)
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Twelve Guage
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
531
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Posted - 2015.04.21 04:37:00 -
[9] - Quote
Koldy Lyte Marven wrote:Twelve Guage wrote:Because space magic. Thanks you for being constructive. I appreciate. This wasn't sarcasm. But my last sentence was sarasm. Use your brain, if you have one, to understand what I mean by this.
Brain module not found.
Sandwich maker LVL. 5
You've been like by Twelve Gauge = her grabbing your @$$.
My like button is back. C:<
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
19347
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Posted - 2015.04.21 04:55:00 -
[10] - Quote
I have consistently asked this to be fixed but the logis keep protesting.
Inversely they do not want any other logis to have a sidearm which makes me think there is something amiss with the class generally.
CPM 1, Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior
\\= ADV HAVs =// Unlocked
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Tectonic Fusion
2373
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Posted - 2015.04.21 05:03:00 -
[11] - Quote
To make the game more dynamic. Just like how the sucky versions of the gal and cal have 1 or 2 less slots than the amarr and min.
(GIF)
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Reign Omega
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
1419
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Posted - 2015.04.21 05:48:00 -
[12] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I have consistently asked this to be fixed but the logis keep protesting.
Inversely they do not want any other logis to have a sidearm which makes me think there is something amiss with the class generally.
Philosophically speaking, the amarr are the stand and fight. The gal are the strike hard and retreat, the cal are the long range and the min are the hit and run. The amarr logi having a sidearm makes sense from this alone, coupled with the fact they toss an eq and 2 slots to have the sidearm, its really not the sweetest deal out there. The gal and min have too good of a slot layout to warrant a sidearm, and the cal albeit the worst logi, doesnt really spring from the combat style to warrant having one. I, as an almost full time logi don't personally care who has a sidearm and who doesnt, but they should have to suffer from the penalty the same as the amarr. Take away the sidearm and give me more slots, idgaf either way tbh. It isn't like the suit is overpowered.
Mark a$$ tricks, and bags of dicks....
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Nocturnal Soul
Primordial Threat
6186
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Posted - 2015.04.21 05:51:00 -
[13] - Quote
Jelly aren't you?!?!
(Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ.
LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
The Incursions are back... and they're golden baby!
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KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
1936
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Posted - 2015.04.21 06:17:00 -
[14] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Because old CCP did stuff without even thinking, and people got attached to that.
Nothing more than that.
It was actually planned when the other (non-min) logis were introduced.
That also was reason why Amarr Logi was lacking for so so long.
Looking at both sides of the coin.
Even Aurum one.
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Scheneighnay McBob
And the ButtPirates
6137
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Posted - 2015.04.21 13:28:00 -
[15] - Quote
Reign Omega wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I have consistently asked this to be fixed but the logis keep protesting.
Inversely they do not want any other logis to have a sidearm which makes me think there is something amiss with the class generally. Philosophically speaking, the amarr are the stand and fight. The gal are the strike hard and retreat, the cal are the long range and the min are the hit and run. The amarr logi having a sidearm makes sense from this alone, coupled with the fact they toss an eq and 2 slots to have the sidearm, its really not the sweetest deal out there. The gal and min have too good of a slot layout to warrant a sidearm, and the cal albeit the worst logi, doesnt really spring from the combat style to warrant having one. I, as an almost full time logi don't personally care who has a sidearm and who doesnt, but they should have to suffer from the penalty the same as the amarr. Take away the sidearm and give me more slots, idgaf either way tbh. It isn't like the suit is overpowered.
"Hit and run" and "strike hard and retreat" are the same thing, and neither apply to the gallente- the gallente are "Be on top of their ass dishing out damage before they know what's going on"
Some details can be ignored
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
9477
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 13:43:00 -
[16] - Quote
Logis don't need a sidearm. Anyone attempting to throw the "Amarr are the combat logi" argument at you needs to walk on off.
Logis are not a combat anything. They are a support role and should be treated as such. Remove the sidearm from the Amarr logi, and while you are at it, give them all logis a small buff to eHP and maybe walk speed (but not sprint).
-Sincerely, a diehard fan of the Amarr dropsuits
@Ripley_Riley
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MINA Longstrike
Kirjuun Heiian
2680
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Posted - 2015.04.21 13:44:00 -
[17] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I have consistently asked this to be fixed but the logis keep protesting.
Inversely they do not want any other logis to have a sidearm which makes me think there is something amiss with the class generally.
The sidearm is nice, but I find the biggest perk of having a proto amarr logi is the powergrid and cpu. A lot of the old argument was situated around their need to protect uplinks (and themselves) in order to keep their bonus active.
If their reduction to spawn time and increased spawns weren't lost on death, amarr logi's would probably be considerably more amicable to losing the sidearm for an additional slot.
That said, I think many logi's would favor 4 equipment over sidearm.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
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Elpedo Hughes
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
42
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Posted - 2015.04.21 14:01:00 -
[18] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Logis don't need a sidearm. Anyone attempting to throw the "Amarr are the combat logi" argument at you needs to walk on off.
Logis are not a combat anything. They are a support role and should be treated as such. Remove the sidearm from the Amarr logi, and while you are at it, give them all logis a small buff to eHP and maybe walk speed (but not sprint).
-Sincerely, a diehard fan of the Amarr dropsuits
Why do they all have Light weapon and Grenade slots if they're not combat anything? |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
19349
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 14:03:00 -
[19] - Quote
Reign Omega wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I have consistently asked this to be fixed but the logis keep protesting.
Inversely they do not want any other logis to have a sidearm which makes me think there is something amiss with the class generally. Philosophically speaking, the amarr are the stand and fight. The gal are the strike hard and retreat, the cal are the long range and the min are the hit and run. The amarr logi having a sidearm makes sense from this alone, coupled with the fact they toss an eq and 2 slots to have the sidearm, its really not the sweetest deal out there. The gal and min have too good of a slot layout to warrant a sidearm, and the cal albeit the worst logi, doesnt really spring from the combat style to warrant having one. I, as an almost full time logi don't personally care who has a sidearm and who doesnt, but they should have to suffer from the penalty the same as the amarr. Take away the sidearm and give me more slots, idgaf either way tbh. It isn't like the suit is overpowered.
Amarr logi bonus should be heat reduction and magazine size then...
If anyone has a side arm its the minmatar.
CPM 1, Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior
\\= ADV HAVs =// Unlocked
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hold that
Capital Acquisitions LLC
Bad Intention
774
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 14:06:00 -
[20] - Quote
Because its friken awesome that's why. And for those with no points in amarr logis, becuase of equiptment slots, their suit bonus, CPU/pg you can only use them effectivly at proto level to logi, unlike the min where you can be effective in a sevr bpo. Low and behold the real reason why this thread is made is because a minlogi wants a sidearm to slay stuff on top of his suit bonus.
If they now could only fix the amount carried for proto hives the cal logi might finally be a contender. |
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hold that
Capital Acquisitions LLC
Bad Intention
774
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 14:08:00 -
[21] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Reign Omega wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I have consistently asked this to be fixed but the logis keep protesting.
Inversely they do not want any other logis to have a sidearm which makes me think there is something amiss with the class generally. Philosophically speaking, the amarr are the stand and fight. The gal are the strike hard and retreat, the cal are the long range and the min are the hit and run. The amarr logi having a sidearm makes sense from this alone, coupled with the fact they toss an eq and 2 slots to have the sidearm, its really not the sweetest deal out there. The gal and min have too good of a slot layout to warrant a sidearm, and the cal albeit the worst logi, doesnt really spring from the combat style to warrant having one. I, as an almost full time logi don't personally care who has a sidearm and who doesnt, but they should have to suffer from the penalty the same as the amarr. Take away the sidearm and give me more slots, idgaf either way tbh. It isn't like the suit is overpowered. Amarr logi bonus should be heat reduction and magazine size then... If anyone has a side arm its the minmatar.
Dam man you make some of the worse suggestions possible. |
Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
9481
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 14:13:00 -
[22] - Quote
Elpedo Hughes wrote:Why do they all have Light weapon and Grenade slots if they're not combat anything? Light weapons are for a last line of defense if their assaults and sentinels drop. The grenades could go too, if I'm being honest.
@Ripley_Riley
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Thaddeus Reynolds
Facepunch Security
266
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 14:17:00 -
[23] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I have consistently asked this to be fixed but the logis keep protesting.
Inversely they do not want any other logis to have a sidearm which makes me think there is something amiss with the class generally.
Amarr Logi here...I'm not opposed to other logis getting sidearms...provided that having a sidearm has a reasonable penalty associated with it (For instance, having a sidearm means -1 Equipment slot...would even be in favor of having two types of logi suits for everyone)
Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper.
Vehicle Re-vamp Proposal
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Joseph Ridgeson
WarRavens
3854
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 14:19:00 -
[24] - Quote
Because it is "balanced around Prototype."
I am not going to get into the philosophy of the races because if I can't Passive Tank any suit to take sustained damage like even a Raven can, it does not apply over to DUST that well. Same goes for the idea of "hit and run" when the TTK on most suits is less than 2 seconds; it just becomes a matter of "who is faster?" and "who takes a half second longer to kill?" I think some of the issues in DUST exist because of developers trying to put EVE style ship philosophy into Dropsuits.
If you refer to the link, you can see that the Logistics lay out makes some semblance of sense. Minmatar are 4/4 and Gallente are 3/5. They both have 4 equipment making out to 12 slots. Caldari is 5/4 with 3 equipment, makes out to 12. Amarr has 3/4 with 3 Equipment and a Sidearm, makes out to 11. It is just a matter if a sidearm is worthless more or less than a low slot and an equipment slot.
"This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
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Booby Tuesdays
Ahrendee Inc.
Negative-Feedback
1517
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 14:24:00 -
[25] - Quote
In before elitist Amarr logi....
hold that wrote:Because its friken awesome that's why. And for those with no points in amarr logis, becuase of equiptment slots, their suit bonus, CPU/pg you can only use them effectivly at proto level to logi, unlike the min where you can be effective in a sevr bpo. Low and behold the real reason why this thread is made is because a minlogi wants a sidearm to slay stuff on top of his suit bonus.
If they now could only fix the amount carried for proto hives the cal logi might finally be a contender.
Dammit.
IF YOU CAN READ THIS
YOU DON'T NEED GLASSES
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Mex-0
569
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 14:31:00 -
[26] - Quote
Twelve Guage wrote:Because space magic.
Wow
much constructive
BWAH
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I-Shayz-I
I----------I
5377
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 14:36:00 -
[27] - Quote
Actually, everyone here is wrong. The reason reason...
At Proto:
Minmatar: 4High + 4Low + 4Equipment = 12
Gallente: 3H + 5L + 4E = 12
Caldari: 5H + 4L + 3E = 12
Amarr: 3H + 5L + 3E = 11
Amarr had one less slot at proto compared to the rest, so they gave the proto amarr logi the sidearm to make up for it...then sometime later they decided to buff the amarr logi and give it to standard and advanced to make the sidearm its "unique" factor.
Edit: I can't remember if the Amarr logi used to only have 4 lows, or if that was the assault suit...but either way this is the actual reason for it.
Rattati at one point asked the logi community if they wanted to remove the sidearm and fix the horrid logi progression (gallente logi only having 2 lows at basic, caldari adv->proto going from 3H 2L -> 5H 4L, etc), but because he also proposed nerfing logi speed and some other things, the logi community bitched at him instead of providing feedback and we never got that update >.>
The way I see it, if you remove the sidearm you need to add a high slot or an equipment...since both of those options seem weird for the Amarr logi, we might as well just let it keep the sidearm. Or heck, why not also take away the 4th low slot from the Cal Logi and give it a sidearm too, since it only has 3 equipment.
7162 wp with a Repair Tool!
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Sleepy Shadow
Qualified Scrub
324
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Posted - 2015.04.21 14:38:00 -
[28] - Quote
Caldari should have a sidearm too. Amarr and Caldari bonus relies on dropping equipment so they are both more GÇ£combat orientatedGÇ¥ than the other two. Amarr already gives up two slots to have that sidearm, pretty steep but still worth it.
Feel free to take it away, but I expect to be refunded all the SP I put in it. I chose Amarr logi for 2 reasons; sidearm and a bonus to armour repair modules. One of them has already been removed, remove the other, and you will have to refund me my SP so I can choose another logi.
=ƒÿ¦
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VALCORE72
Vengeance Unbound
RUST415
300
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 14:39:00 -
[29] - Quote
it was changed cause that class was better at assault then assaults . with the nerfs to them might be better they all get there side arm back.
asian haters united lol .
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Sleepy Shadow
Qualified Scrub
324
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Posted - 2015.04.21 14:41:00 -
[30] - Quote
I-Shayz-I wrote:Actually, everyone here is wrong. The reason reason...
At Proto:
Minmatar: 4High + 4Low + 4Equipment = 12
Gallente: 3H + 5L + 4E = 12
Caldari: 5H + 4L + 3E = 12
Amarr: 3H + 5L + 3E = 11
Amarr only has 4 low slots.
3H + 4L + 3E = 10
It climbs to 11 slots with the sidearm. So it is one slot short from all the other logis.
=ƒÿ¦
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dzizur
Nos Nothi
231
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Posted - 2015.04.21 14:42:00 -
[31] - Quote
I-Shayz-I wrote:Actually, everyone here is wrong. The reason reason...
At Proto:
Minmatar: 4High + 4Low + 4Equipment = 12
Gallente: 3H + 5L + 4E = 12
Caldari: 5H + 4L + 3E = 12
Amarr: 3H + 5L + 3E = 11
Amarr had one less slot at proto compared to the rest, so they gave the proto amarr logi the sidearm to make up for it...then sometime later they decided to buff the amarr logi and give it to standard and advanced to make the sidearm its "unique" factor.
Edit: I can't remember if the Amarr logi used to only have 4 lows, or if that was the assault suit...but either way this is the actual reason for it.
Rattati at one point asked the logi community if they wanted to remove the sidearm and fix the horrid logi progression (gallente logi only having 2 lows at basic, caldari adv->proto going from 3H 2L -> 5H 4L, etc), but because he also proposed nerfing logi speed and some other things, the logi community bitched at him instead of providing feedback and we never got that update >.>
The way I see it, if you remove the sidearm you need to add a high slot or an equipment...since both of those options seem weird for the Amarr logi, we might as well just let it keep the sidearm. Or heck, why not also take away the 4th low slot from the Cal Logi and give it a sidearm too, since it only has 3 equipment.
THIS!! give this man a beer |
Shamarskii Simon
The Hundred Acre Hood
Rise Of Legion.
353
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Posted - 2015.04.21 14:45:00 -
[32] - Quote
(pro)
Ama logi has 3 equipment, one side arm.
Cal logi has 3 equipment, most fitting slots (low resources)
Gal logi has 4 equipment, loses a high slot for equipment.
Min logi is balanced all around.
The ADS tourney! Join today!
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Michael Arck
6209
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Posted - 2015.04.21 15:09:00 -
[33] - Quote
Quite interesting to read threads like this. Well, it was part of a massive change to logis as whole. You see, it was the age of the CalLogi. 1Hp Armor rep built into the suit. Plus equipment and throw in a scanner. CalLogis (amongst others) brought a flood of tears. They could kill and heal. So GD took to the threads and CCP got to the drawing board. Together people *cough* (victims I meant excuse me) sought to lessen the threat of Logis. So things like armor repper, sidearms and equipment nerfings were inbound. Anything to have logis "play their role". Thus you have the current state of logis...easy kill tag alongs.
People felt sidearms made logis, especially CalLogis, into slayer logis. The majority of people didn't want the logis to even kill space cockroaches. Those threads were numerous and often got nasty.
Most changes have came at the hands of victims who hid themselves under the guise of " balance".
Archistrategos / The 7th Prime / Selah
*Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain
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reydient
ROGUE RELICS
106
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 15:33:00 -
[34] - Quote
Sidearm was provided for the role play aspect of the game. Its well known that the Amarr logi is considered the brawler frontline logi. Unfortunately its high and low slot modules leave less than to be desired int terms of tank and survival.
I consider myself a career logi. I have been Minlogi and Amarlogi . Currently sitting at gallente logi . Honestly , running two weapons is a "slayer " tactic . As a logi if your busy slaying your not getting points or assisting your teammates. Furthermore , the amarr logi's specialty is uplinks and these links effectiveness are dependent the logi staying on the field . If they are slaying and dying it makes filling this role a challenge.
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
Onikanabo Brigade
Caldari State
1980
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Posted - 2015.04.21 15:50:00 -
[35] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:
Amarr logi bonus should be heat reduction and the current uplink bonus ...
If anyone has a side arm its the Caldari .
Fixed That For You .
No need to thank .
Doubts are like flies and should be treated as such and crushed . #PubsShouldBeRandomPlayers
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
Onikanabo Brigade
Caldari State
1980
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Posted - 2015.04.21 15:52:00 -
[36] - Quote
Shamarskii Simon wrote:(pro)
Ama logi has 3 equipment, one side arm.
Cal logi has 3 equipment, most fitting slots (low resources)
Gal logi has 4 equipment, loses a high slot for equipment.
Min logi is balanced all around.
But yet those who run the best all around suit with the best bonus is complaining .
Doubts are like flies and should be treated as such and crushed . #PubsShouldBeRandomPlayers
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Elpedo Hughes
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
44
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Posted - 2015.04.21 15:53:00 -
[37] - Quote
Mex-0 wrote:Twelve Guage wrote:Because space magic. Wow much constructive
Were you more or less constructive??? |
LOOKMOM NOHANDS
536
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 16:04:00 -
[38] - Quote
This is only in my personal opinion.
The Amarr logi is the only one that does not have bonuses to passively defending itself through the nature of its job.
Minmatar - bonus to rep tool keeping everyone around them alive as a defense.
Caldari - bonus to ammo and repair of people around them from nanohives.
Gallente - bonus to scans keeping everyone lit up so that they can actively evade as well as make the people scanned more likely to die.
Amarr - Well if everyone dies they may or may not be back in a few seconds depending on if the links got popped or if they want to spawn there. You can argue that team mates are able to spawn faster thus giving a passive defense in that way but this only feeds clones once they are already dead and those people are now lost for atleast some amount of time while in other cases they are not.
There are also other factors such as their movement speeds and passive scans that come into play but I see the above list as the primary reason that it is fair and balanced that the Amarr logi has a sidearm. Ultimately logi suits are about surviving and helping your team survive and the Amarr logi is the only one who does not have an equipment bonus in line with this. Why is it not fair that an Amarr logi atleast has a slightly better chance of defending his uplinks while team members try to spawn back in and keep the fight going.
This is only my 2 ISK and was probably not the exact line of thinking when the suit was created but whatever reasons lead to it I think it worked out very well. |
Luk Manag
of Terror
TRE GAFFEL
753
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Posted - 2015.04.21 16:06:00 -
[39] - Quote
Slayer logi squads were bad because it encouraged everyone to play the same way with the same basic fits. As it stands now, other suits benefit so much from weapon bonuses that weapon balancing is based on the racial Assault or Commando suit bonus. The weapons are severely gimped on the logi suits (or in any racial mismatch)... Good luck trying to find a good logi weapon. I actually think we're in a good place, compared to the Cal-logi death squads, but I wouldn't mind seeing the logi get some sort of unique weapon bonus...maybe a shotgun damage buff or something.
There will be bullets. ACR+SMG [CEO of Terror]
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Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
10233
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Posted - 2015.04.21 16:09:00 -
[40] - Quote
Reign Omega wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I have consistently asked this to be fixed but the logis keep protesting.
Inversely they do not want any other logis to have a sidearm which makes me think there is something amiss with the class generally. Philosophically speaking, the amarr are the stand and fight. The gal are the strike hard and retreat, the cal are the long range and the min are the hit and run. The amarr logi having a sidearm makes sense from this alone, coupled with the fact they toss an eq and 2 slots to have the sidearm, its really not the sweetest deal out there. The gal and min have too good of a slot layout to warrant a sidearm, and the cal albeit the worst logi, doesnt really spring from the combat style to warrant having one. I, as an almost full time logi don't personally care who has a sidearm and who doesnt, but they should have to suffer from the penalty the same as the amarr. Take away the sidearm and give me more slots, idgaf either way tbh. It isn't like the suit is overpowered.
This Comment is Sgt Kirk approved.
As long as 5/6 (83%) of infantry AV weapons are Anti Armor based you're never going to achieve vehicle balance CCP
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LOOKMOM NOHANDS
536
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Posted - 2015.04.21 16:14:00 -
[41] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I have consistently asked this to be fixed but the logis keep protesting.
Inversely they do not want any other logis to have a sidearm which makes me think there is something amiss with the class generally.
I do not mean to derail the thread but this is why CPM stands to be a flawed system.
You have now openly stated that you are lobbying for something AGAINST what the community is saying. Almost no one says anything about this and obviously CCP has even accepted that there is not a problem but you continue to push your agenda with little to no backing from the community which you are suppose to represent.
OP asked a simple question and never even said there was actually a problem with it himself and you just used his thread and a sounding board to attempt to push your agenda. Not only that you could not even state what the problem is.
How about instead of bickering over what you feel is an imbalance you do what you were elected to do and try to get some community feedback on what needs to be done to balance all logis with the rest of the field. This is what the rest of the CPM are doing. They not only present them self as being passionate about the game but passionate about what the community wants to see. |
Balistyc Farshot
OUTCAST MERCS
General Tso's Alliance
147
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Posted - 2015.04.21 16:17:00 -
[42] - Quote
The sidearm is missing because they are the slowest of the logis and have less slots. This used to make them easy targets. You still rarely see Amarr logis except that they have the nice Uplink bonus. The sidearm is still only slightly used on them due to the low life.
Ok, I hate REs and Blues. So I am going to use them until they stop me!
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Knightshade Belladonna
Mannar Focused Warfare
Gallente Federation
1157
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 16:32:00 -
[43] - Quote
they only got 3 equipment slots on proto though I think , right?
it seems OP and unfiar until proto levels, then that chit be weak |
Ku Shala
PIanet Express
Smart Deploy
1390
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 16:40:00 -
[44] - Quote
that side arm comes in handy clearing points to drop uplinks, it also allows for a range and cqc combat, amarr have decent passive scans, observing a panel planning an attack and moving in requires 2 types of combat.
-¦a+ó a+ú-Æa+äla+ä (CK-0 Specialist x5)
Caldari Loyalist
22 230 780 sp in drop suit upgrades
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Jammer Jalapeno
Dox You.
Proficiency V.
209
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 17:19:00 -
[45] - Quote
LOOKMOM NOHANDS wrote:This is only in my personal opinion.
The Amarr logi is the only one that does not have bonuses to passively defending itself through the nature of its job.
Minmatar - bonus to rep tool keeping everyone around them alive as a defense.
Caldari - bonus to ammo and repair of people around them from nanohives.
Gallente - bonus to scans keeping everyone lit up so that they can actively evade as well as make the people scanned more likely to die.
Amarr - Well if everyone dies they may or may not be back in a few seconds depending on if the links got popped or if they want to spawn there. You can argue that team mates are able to spawn faster thus giving a passive defense in that way but this only feeds clones once they are already dead and those people are now lost for atleast some amount of time while in other cases they are not.
There are also other factors such as their movement speeds and passive scans that come into play but I see the above list as the primary reason that it is fair and balanced that the Amarr logi has a sidearm. Ultimately logi suits are about surviving and helping your team survive and the Amarr logi is the only one who does not have an equipment bonus in line with this. Why is it not fair that an Amarr logi atleast has a slightly better chance of defending his uplinks while team members try to spawn back in and keep the fight going.
This is only my 2 ISK and was probably not the exact line of thinking when the suit was created but whatever reasons lead to it I think it worked out very well.
The Amarr logi barely even has an equipment bonus!
I've dropped viziam flux uplinks with a few different racial suits and each time it's always a three second spawn.
Even with my proto amarr logi, I cannot get that uplink to drop below three seconds. I also realize that there is another bonus to spawns per link, but really how usefull is that? Links don't last....unless of course you are in one of those boring battles.
So let em have their sidearm, it's really the only thing that makes the suit worth running.
MmMmMm TanKs....delicious TanKs
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LOOKMOM NOHANDS
538
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 17:31:00 -
[46] - Quote
Jammer Jalapeno wrote:LOOKMOM NOHANDS wrote:This is only in my personal opinion.
The Amarr logi is the only one that does not have bonuses to passively defending itself through the nature of its job.
Minmatar - bonus to rep tool keeping everyone around them alive as a defense.
Caldari - bonus to ammo and repair of people around them from nanohives.
Gallente - bonus to scans keeping everyone lit up so that they can actively evade as well as make the people scanned more likely to die.
Amarr - Well if everyone dies they may or may not be back in a few seconds depending on if the links got popped or if they want to spawn there. You can argue that team mates are able to spawn faster thus giving a passive defense in that way but this only feeds clones once they are already dead and those people are now lost for atleast some amount of time while in other cases they are not.
There are also other factors such as their movement speeds and passive scans that come into play but I see the above list as the primary reason that it is fair and balanced that the Amarr logi has a sidearm. Ultimately logi suits are about surviving and helping your team survive and the Amarr logi is the only one who does not have an equipment bonus in line with this. Why is it not fair that an Amarr logi atleast has a slightly better chance of defending his uplinks while team members try to spawn back in and keep the fight going.
This is only my 2 ISK and was probably not the exact line of thinking when the suit was created but whatever reasons lead to it I think it worked out very well. The Amarr logi barely even has an equipment bonus! I've dropped viziam flux uplinks with a few different racial suits and each time it's always a three second spawn. Even with my proto amarr logi, I cannot get that uplink to drop below three seconds. I also realize that there is another bonus to spawns per link, but really how usefull is that? Links don't last....unless of course you are in one of those boring battles. So let em have their sidearm, it's really the only thing that makes the suit worth running.
3 seconds is the minimum spawn time from allowing your clone to bleed.
An Amarr logi will never get to use his own bonus as the bonus dies with the suit. Its really great how the Amarr logi is just all around useless once a battle has started because most people bleed their clone to get down to a 3 second spawn time anyway. Basically the Amarr logi is only an assistance to people who have died and been immediately terminated.
But hey we are OP because we have a sidearm on a slow suit with less equipment and crappy passives. Better nerf that quickly.
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Vesta Opalus
Ostrakon Agency
Gallente Federation
627
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 17:35:00 -
[47] - Quote
Koldy Lyte Marven wrote:Seriously... please give me a constructive answer...
To give options in how each logi played.
Amarr was supposed to be a sort of combat frontline logi.
Caldari had more modules so had more fitting options.
Gallente and Minmatar had more equipment, so you had a tanky option and a speedy option with a focus on equipment.
I think the caldari logi is the only one right now that genuinely sucks. |
CommanderBolt
KILL-EM-QUICK
Rise Of Legion.
3395
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 18:05:00 -
[48] - Quote
Because they are badass evil space slavers.
I for one find a lack of a sidearm to be a fairly big con on the 3 other logi suits that don't have them. Don't know if others agree with me or not.
Vitantur Nothus wrote: Why hide a solution under frothy pile of derpa?
SCV Ready!
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RayRay James
Titans of Phoenix
RUST415
1000
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 18:19:00 -
[49] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Elpedo Hughes wrote:Why do they all have Light weapon and Grenade slots if they're not combat anything? Light weapons are for a last line of defense if their assaults and sentinels drop. The grenades could go too, if I'm being honest.
You keep your hands of my grenade slot.
I, also, almost exclusively logi and I don't need or want a side arm slot, but stay away from my fluxes. |
Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
9501
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 18:26:00 -
[50] - Quote
RayRay James wrote:You keep your hands of my grenade slot.
I, also, almost exclusively logi and I don't need or want a side arm slot, but stay away from my fluxes. I know losing the grenade slot isn't a popular opinion. Really the only thing I consider a necessity to balance logis is for the Amarr to lose it's sidearm. After that we can move forward with balancing the logis.
Side note: you guys need more survivability; eHP, walk speed, something.
@Ripley_Riley
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RayRay James
Titans of Phoenix
RUST415
1000
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 18:27:00 -
[51] - Quote
Luk Manag wrote:Stuff
Good luck trying to find a good logi weapon.
More Stuff
.
Just because the logi doesn't get a weapons bonus doesn't mean there aren't weapons that work great on a logi.
Give me my AR/Locus or my ACR/Flux combination any day. I drop heavies with my gal logi all the time. |
RayRay James
Titans of Phoenix
RUST415
1000
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 18:29:00 -
[52] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:RayRay James wrote:You keep your hands of my grenade slot.
I, also, almost exclusively logi and I don't need or want a side arm slot, but stay away from my fluxes. I know losing the grenade slot isn't a popular opinion. Really the only thing I consider a necessity to balance logis is for the Amarr to lose it's sidearm. After that we can move forward with balancing the logis. Side note: you guys need more survivability; eHP, walk speed, something.
Honestly, I'm not sure we do need more survivability. Don't get me wrong, I'll take anything they give me, but if I'm doing my job right the only time I die is when we get completely over run and everyone else is dead too. I mean, I've been killed running to my squad, but once I get there I should be able to keep myself out of the bullet lanes and still keep my team alive. |
Vicious Minotaur
2314
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 18:41:00 -
[53] - Quote
They have it because generic homogenized classes are the antithesis of interesting.
Unfortunately, homogenized classes are precisely what people seem to want. Never mind that each race is its own separate entity. People want a one-size fits all mentality.
That mentality screwed over Sentinels and interesting class interplay.
That mentality will probably screw over Logistics, too.
Because case-by-case balancing and ideas would be too interesting, require more thought for balancing, and give the game more depth. Better simplify things to the point of generic-ness!
HOMOGENIZED: It's not just for Milk!!!!!
I am a minotaur.
a+üa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa+üa¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça+üa+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+üa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa+üa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ë
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Joel II X
Bacon with a bottle of Quafe
7149
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 18:45:00 -
[54] - Quote
Because they lose an equipment slot.
If you really want to complain about a logi, complain about the Gallente one at STD tier. |
Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
Learning Alliance
6341
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 19:00:00 -
[55] - Quote
Koldy Lyte Marven wrote:Seriously... please give me a constructive answer...
Because the old Dev team thought it would be cool...
I think the Caldari Logi should be given one too. Then the Deployable centric Logi would have sidearms, and the active equipment Logi would not.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Reign Omega
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
1423
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 19:05:00 -
[56] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Reign Omega wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I have consistently asked this to be fixed but the logis keep protesting.
Inversely they do not want any other logis to have a sidearm which makes me think there is something amiss with the class generally. Philosophically speaking, the amarr are the stand and fight. The gal are the strike hard and retreat, the cal are the long range and the min are the hit and run. The amarr logi having a sidearm makes sense from this alone, coupled with the fact they toss an eq and 2 slots to have the sidearm, its really not the sweetest deal out there. The gal and min have too good of a slot layout to warrant a sidearm, and the cal albeit the worst logi, doesnt really spring from the combat style to warrant having one. I, as an almost full time logi don't personally care who has a sidearm and who doesnt, but they should have to suffer from the penalty the same as the amarr. Take away the sidearm and give me more slots, idgaf either way tbh. It isn't like the suit is overpowered. "Hit and run" and "strike hard and retreat" are the same thing, and neither apply to the gallente- the gallente are "Be on top of their ass dishing out damage before they know what's going on"
Not necessarily so, strike hard and retreat applies more to what you stated "be on them, et al." Get in get a kill and rep for the next scrap. Hit and run is more of confusing the enemy with light strikes from myltiple angles while avoiding damage in order to sustain combat. You don't always kill on the first jab, but you keep jabbing until they fall and move on.
Mark a$$ tricks, and bags of dicks....
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Reign Omega
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
1423
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 19:09:00 -
[57] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Logis don't need a sidearm. Anyone attempting to throw the "Amarr are the combat logi" argument at you needs to walk on off.
Logis are not a combat anything. They are a support role and should be treated as such. Remove the sidearm from the Amarr logi, and while you are at it, give them all logis a small buff to eHP and maybe walk speed (but not sprint).
-Sincerely, a diehard fan of the Amarr dropsuits
If you remove the sidearm, you have to give them better slot layouts or the suit will be hot garbage. The cal has no sidearm and a slightly better slot layout (more slots) and the suit is STILL pisswarm chango. Hell I'd be for the cal getting a sidearm and a fitting buff they suck so bad now...
Mark a$$ tricks, and bags of dicks....
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
19355
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 20:41:00 -
[58] - Quote
LOOKMOM NOHANDS wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I have consistently asked this to be fixed but the logis keep protesting.
Inversely they do not want any other logis to have a sidearm which makes me think there is something amiss with the class generally. I do not mean to derail the thread but this is why CPM stands to be a flawed system. You have now openly stated that you are lobbying for something AGAINST what the community is saying. Almost no one says anything about this and obviously CCP has even accepted that there is not a problem but you continue to push your agenda with little to no backing from the community which you are suppose to represent. OP asked a simple question and never even said there was actually a problem with it himself and you just used his thread and a sounding board to attempt to push your agenda. Not only that you could not even state what the problem is. How about instead of bickering over what you feel is an imbalance you do what you were elected to do and try to get some community feedback on what needs to be done to balance all logis with the rest of the field. This is what the rest of the CPM are doing. They not only present them self as being passionate about the game but passionate about what the community wants to see.
Reporting for derailment. If you want to be crass about things am am not allowed to generally make suggestions in then take it to the council chambers.
Also I still yet to see a core design reason to give amarr a side arm. The original iteration comes off as a just because kind of thinking that has plagued the rest of dust 514.
I can grantee you that had amarr logistics had not been originally designed with qwith a side arm not a single one of you would suggest adding it.
Also eve diction is an excessively poor defense. On average amarr have the fewest guns. This is to lower reactor stress but they hit pretty darn hard out of the box such as the tacyons beams. Minmatar have the most guns on average.
CPM 1, Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior
\\= ADV HAVs =// Unlocked
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Onesimus Tarsus
is-a-Corporation
3320
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 20:45:00 -
[59] - Quote
Koldy Lyte Marven wrote:Twelve Guage wrote:Because space magic. Thanks you for being constructive. I appreciate. This wasn't sarcasm. But my last sentence was sarasm. Use your brain, if you have one, to understand what I mean by this.
Never, ever cheese off an English lit major.
As of April 9, 2015, we have about 330 days of DUST 514 left. Enjoy them!
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
19355
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 20:45:00 -
[60] - Quote
Gallente are high speed battering rams.
Caldari are archers
Amarr are knights on foot.
Minmatar are vikings who pillage your village before your army shows up to deal with them.
CPM 1, Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior
\\= ADV HAVs =// Unlocked
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|
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hold that
Capital Acquisitions LLC
Bad Intention
776
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 22:54:00 -
[61] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:LOOKMOM NOHANDS wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I have consistently asked this to be fixed but the logis keep protesting.
Inversely they do not want any other logis to have a sidearm which makes me think there is something amiss with the class generally. I do not mean to derail the thread but this is why CPM stands to be a flawed system. You have now openly stated that you are lobbying for something AGAINST what the community is saying. Almost no one says anything about this and obviously CCP has even accepted that there is not a problem but you continue to push your agenda with little to no backing from the community which you are suppose to represent. OP asked a simple question and never even said there was actually a problem with it himself and you just used his thread and a sounding board to attempt to push your agenda. Not only that you could not even state what the problem is. How about instead of bickering over what you feel is an imbalance you do what you were elected to do and try to get some community feedback on what needs to be done to balance all logis with the rest of the field. This is what the rest of the CPM are doing. They not only present them self as being passionate about the game but passionate about what the community wants to see. Reporting for derailment. If you want to be crass about things am am not allowed to generally make suggestions in then take it to the council chambers. Also I still yet to see a core design reason to give amarr a side arm. The original iteration comes off as a just because kind of thinking that has plagued the rest of dust 514. I can grantee you that had amarr logistics had not been originally designed with qwith a side arm not a single one of you would suggest adding it. Also eve diction is an excessively poor defense. On average amarr have the fewest guns. This is to lower reactor stress but they hit pretty darn hard out of the box such as the tacyons beams. Minmatar have the most guns on average.
"reporting for derailment", haha this is your CPM!
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Sicerly Yaw
Quantum times
96
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 22:59:00 -
[62] - Quote
Koldy Lyte Marven wrote:Seriously... please give me a constructive answer...
read the description of each logi suit and for that matter all of the suits |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
19359
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 23:00:00 -
[63] - Quote
Sicerly Yaw wrote:Koldy Lyte Marven wrote:Seriously... please give me a constructive answer... read the description of each logi suit and for that matter all of the suits
Lore does not dictate game design. Lore is more likely to change if it wherent so expensive. I mean they should all be plasma rifles by now.
CPM 1, Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior
\\= ADV HAVs =// Unlocked
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Vyuru
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
130
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 23:08:00 -
[64] - Quote
I will say one nice perk of the Amarr Logi is that you can run a AV main weapon, and have a SMG or something as a sidearm. But now that we have Commando's, it's not exactly needed either.
But as to why Amarr Logi's have a sidearm? A few other's have posted how it came to be, I can't really say the reasoning why though.
Logi's ideally shouldn't need a main light weapon, since they should be running with a squad IMO. |
LOOKMOM NOHANDS
542
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 23:08:00 -
[65] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:
Reporting for derailment. If you want to be crass about things am am not allowed to generally make suggestions in then take it to the council chambers.
Also I still yet to see a core design reason to give amarr a side arm. The original iteration comes off as a just because kind of thinking that has plagued the rest of dust 514.
I can grantee you that had amarr logistics had not been originally designed with qwith a side arm not a single one of you would suggest adding it.
Also eve diction is an excessively poor defense. On average amarr have the fewest guns. This is to lower reactor stress but they hit pretty darn hard out of the box such as the tacyons beams. Minmatar have the most guns on average.
I do not mean to say that you can not make suggestions but you constantly go around lobbying for things meanwhile presenting yourself as having almost no interest in what other people in the game think. Obviously I can not speak for what happens behind closed doors.
As for this idea that the Amarr logi needs its side arm snatched away I really do not get it besides people being mad that they do not have one on their logi. The Amarr has less equipment, moves slower, gets crap for a bonus, and has less fitting ability if you run it with a full set of proto equipment. In real application on that battle field what bonus it does hang on to while still alive leaves it bare defensively as I pointed out in my previous post. If this is not enough to balance out having a sidearm I do not know what is.
Even with the Amarr logi having a sidearm any scout makes a far better logi thanks to what a crap suit it is.
Logis as a whole need to be totally reworked and if the Amarr loses its sidearm in favor of actually having meaning next to other logis the GREAT.
I have listed off everything that puts the Amarr logi in the background to almost every other suit so lets see you give one good reason that it should not have a sidearm other than "O the others dont have it" |
hold that
Capital Acquisitions LLC
Bad Intention
776
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 23:23:00 -
[66] - Quote
how do logis need to be reworked? the only problem is that cal and amarr logis need to run proto to be effective or = in use to their gal/min counterparts. besides that every logi but the cal logi is near perfect. ask the people who have been logi mains for 2+ years. this is coming from someone who has proto in all 4 logis and PCs. the best fix for the cal logi would be to put the proto hives amount carried in line with advanced and basic, why this hasn't happened after two months is beyond me.
also, to the non-logis and non-logi PC players talking about stripping them of their weps and grenades: lmao |
xxwhitedevilxx M
Maphia Clan Unit Pwnycorn
3109
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 23:25:00 -
[67] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I have consistently asked this to be fixed but the logis keep protesting.
Inversely they do not want any other logis to have a sidearm which makes me think there is something amiss with the class generally.
What is this all about? The Amarr logi design is to be a "combat logi", it's pretty balanced:
Amarr layout is
3H, 4L, 3E, P, S
Minmatar layout is
4H, 4L, 4E, P
If other logis would get a secondary it would become underpowered
Guinea Dust Bunnies are watching you, CCP Rouge.
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JIMvc2
Consolidated Dust
927
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 23:29:00 -
[68] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Logis don't need a sidearm. Anyone attempting to throw the "Amarr are the combat logi" argument at you needs to walk on off.
Logis are not a combat anything. They are a support role and should be treated as such. Remove the sidearm from the Amarr logi, and while you are at it, give them all logis a small buff to eHP and maybe walk speed (but not sprint).
-Sincerely, a diehard fan of the Amarr dropsuits
I'm sorry but CCP cannot remove the side arm from the Templar Logi Amarr = No I will not allow it.
(Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!! Die YOU SHADOW BEING IN THE DARK!!!
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el OPERATOR
Capital Acquisitions LLC
Bad Intention
1010
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 23:34:00 -
[69] - Quote
Amarr logi has a sidearm because reasons.
CalLogi is awesome but would be better with a sidearm also for reasons.
Logis in general need some things, most of them are detailed in the Logistics/Support CPM thread Cross Atu started, gimme a minute and I'll find it and get it onto page 1
Open-Beta Vet.
Egbinger Original.
DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
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el OPERATOR
Capital Acquisitions LLC
Bad Intention
1010
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 23:37:00 -
[70] - Quote
btw, this whole "Logis don't need weapons" thing is frikin ********. I realize that works in EVE but in EVE blobs are huge, so when in DUST I can surround myself with 300 friendly teammates to protect me we can consider revisiting whether or not Logis "need" weapons.
Open-Beta Vet.
Egbinger Original.
DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
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Patrick57
9927
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 23:41:00 -
[71] - Quote
it's because the amarr logi sucks overall, so it needs something to help balance it out |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
19359
|
Posted - 2015.04.22 00:32:00 -
[72] - Quote
Patrick57 wrote:it's because the amarr logi sucks overall, so it needs something to help balance it out
Find a different excuse.
The statement is a symptom not the cure. The effect of a cause called "just because"
There is no core reason for the sidearm outlier
CPM 1, Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior
\\= ADV HAVs =// Unlocked
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Forced Death
Corrosive Synergy
Rise Of Legion.
651
|
Posted - 2015.04.22 00:35:00 -
[73] - Quote
I thought that Amarr Logi at STD level only have two eq. slots to make up for sidearm?
STD Active Scanner with Scan Profile of 46db too OP
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Aero Yassavi
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
9689
|
Posted - 2015.04.22 00:51:00 -
[74] - Quote
I'm just pissed that they get two equipment slots at standard. How is that a logi? Makes running Amarr logi in pubs painful.
Amarr are the good guys
Join "PIE Ground Control" for secure Amarr FW syncing and orbital support
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DiablosMajora
114
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Posted - 2015.04.22 01:11:00 -
[75] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Gallente are high speed battering rams.
Caldari are archers
Amarr are knights on foot.
Minmatar are vikings who pillage your village before your army shows up to deal with them.
I like this analogy.
Any hope for a role rebalance across suits in the near future?
Prepare your angus
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DaemonVok
Axis of Chaos
21
|
Posted - 2015.04.22 01:30:00 -
[76] - Quote
Koldy Lyte Marven wrote:Seriously... please give me a constructive answer...
It is countered by being the only logical not only to start with two equipment slots, but also to never gain 4. It is also the only logical not to have a beneficial racial weapon unique to the class, scrambler and lasers heat up too much so the sidearm was meant to help balance it's suck Ness. It's is not designed to actually run reps. It's designed to actually equip more than one type of link and many an injector or ammo and join the combat. |
RayRay James
Titans of Phoenix
RUST415
1001
|
Posted - 2015.04.22 02:13:00 -
[77] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:LOOKMOM NOHANDS wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I have consistently asked this to be fixed but the logis keep protesting.
Inversely they do not want any other logis to have a sidearm which makes me think there is something amiss with the class generally. I do not mean to derail the thread but this is why CPM stands to be a flawed system. You have now openly stated that you are lobbying for something AGAINST what the community is saying. Almost no one says anything about this and obviously CCP has even accepted that there is not a problem but you continue to push your agenda with little to no backing from the community which you are suppose to represent. OP asked a simple question and never even said there was actually a problem with it himself and you just used his thread and a sounding board to attempt to push your agenda. Not only that you could not even state what the problem is. How about instead of bickering over what you feel is an imbalance you do what you were elected to do and try to get some community feedback on what needs to be done to balance all logis with the rest of the field. This is what the rest of the CPM are doing. They not only present them self as being passionate about the game but passionate about what the community wants to see. Reporting for derailment. If you want to be crass about things am am not allowed to generally make suggestions in then take it to the council chambers. Also I still yet to see a core design reason to give amarr a side arm. The original iteration comes off as a just because kind of thinking that has plagued the rest of dust 514. I can grantee you that had amarr logistics had not been originally designed with qwith a side arm not a single one of you would suggest adding it. Also eve diction is an excessively poor defense. On average amarr have the fewest guns. This is to lower reactor stress but they hit pretty darn hard out of the box such as the tacyons beams. Minmatar have the most guns on average.
Gallente have drones
wink, wink, nudge nudge
;) |
P14GU3
UNIVERSAL C.A.R.N.A.G.E
1455
|
Posted - 2015.04.22 03:41:00 -
[78] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I have consistently asked this to be fixed but the logis keep protesting.
Inversely they do not want any other logis to have a sidearm which makes me think there is something amiss with the class generally.
This simply is not true. Go back to the last rattatti discussion about the amarr logi and you will see many of us said the Cal-logi should also get the sidearm since it also has the 3 eq slot layout. It was all but a sure thing by the end of the discussion, and I was really surprised to see it didnt happen.
The min logi is considered the most to be a "true-logi," and is the last logi that would ever recieve a sidearm. Once again IWS chimes in on things he knows nothing about...
'Sault AK.0 - Logi AK.0 - Logi GK.0 - Scout GK.0 - 'Mando MK.0 - Masshole in every sense of the word.
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Bradric Banewolf
D3ATH CARD
RUST415
792
|
Posted - 2015.04.22 05:02:00 -
[79] - Quote
If you've seen the scrambler rifle in action, then you know why....
"Anybody order chaos?"
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Shamarskii Simon
The Hundred Acre Hood
Rise Of Legion.
356
|
Posted - 2015.04.22 16:57:00 -
[80] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Patrick57 wrote:it's because the amarr logi sucks overall, so it needs something to help balance it out Find a different excuse. The statement is a symptom not the cure. The effect of a cause called "just because" There is no core reason for the sidearm outlier
Just look at each of the suits at proto.
Amarr has the LEAST amount of slots, and equipment. 10 total, just for 1 side arm. (3H, 4L, 3E)
Cal has the most slots (5H, 4L) but it's offset by the low resources and low equipment. (5H, 4L, 3E)
Gal is similar to Cal, gives up a high slot for 4 equipment.
(3H, 5L, 4E)
Min is balanced all around. (4H, 4L, 4E)
In the end, amarr is weaker than all the others just for a sidearm. To give all logi's a sidearm, it's just a step you shouldn't take.
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
19363
|
Posted - 2015.04.22 17:40:00 -
[81] - Quote
Shamarskii Simon wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Patrick57 wrote:it's because the amarr logi sucks overall, so it needs something to help balance it out Find a different excuse. The statement is a symptom not the cure. The effect of a cause called "just because" There is no core reason for the sidearm outlier Just look at each of the suits at proto. Amarr has the LEAST amount of slots, and equipment. 10 total, just for 1 side arm. (3H, 4L, 3E) Cal has the most slots (5H, 4L) but it's offset by the low resources and low equipment. (5H, 4L, 3E) Gal is similar to Cal, gives up a high slot for 4 equipment. (3H, 5L, 4E) Min is balanced all around. (4H, 4L, 4E) In the end, amarr is weaker than all the others just for a sidearm. To give all logi's a sidearm, it's just a step you shouldn't take; unnecessary stress
Why should amarr have the least amount of slots? there no practical core reason for it. Hp is still freakishly low; speed is slow; equipment not worthwhile on it.
CPM 1, Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior
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Shamarskii Simon
The Hundred Acre Hood
Rise Of Legion.
356
|
Posted - 2015.04.22 19:19:00 -
[82] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Shamarskii Simon wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Patrick57 wrote:it's because the amarr logi sucks overall, so it needs something to help balance it out Find a different excuse. The statement is a symptom not the cure. The effect of a cause called "just because" There is no core reason for the sidearm outlier Just look at each of the suits at proto. Amarr has the LEAST amount of slots, and equipment. 10 total, just for 1 side arm. (3H, 4L, 3E) Cal has the most slots (5H, 4L) but it's offset by the low resources and low equipment. (5H, 4L, 3E) Gal is similar to Cal, gives up a high slot for 4 equipment. (3H, 5L, 4E) Min is balanced all around. (4H, 4L, 4E) In the end, amarr is weaker than all the others just for a sidearm. To give all logi's a sidearm, it's just a step you shouldn't take; unnecessary stress Why should amarr have the least amount of slots? there no practical core reason for it. Hp is still freakishly low; speed is slow; equipment not worthwhile on it.
So, if it has freakishly low eHP, whats wrong with a sidearm?
You also say something is amiss with it since people say don't take away the sidearm.
But... Hmm... Freakishly low eHP, low number of slots, low number of equipment... And they want it? What's really the problem? They'll die before they use it annndd if they want to use that as the balancer then... Oh well. Leave them be.
Ama gets a sidearm, great.
Cal gets most modules, great.
Gal gets most low slots and 4 equip, great.
Min gets all round balance, great
Ight, tell me exactly what's wrong with ama having a sidearm and let's discuss.
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Reign Omega
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
1429
|
Posted - 2015.04.22 20:20:00 -
[83] - Quote
It seems that there are 3 definitive positions here. Amarr logi doesnt need a sidearm because its not fair to the other kids, Amarr logi is fine...it underperforms as a logi and a combat suit leave it be, and IDGAF do whatever.
The 3rd being non logi, and myself....
2nd being Amarr logi
1st being all the rest of the players skilled even remotely into any logi suit.
I'm just curious as to why?
Mark a$$ tricks, and bags of dicks....
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RedBleach LeSanglant
Hellstorm Inc
General Tso's Alliance
791
|
Posted - 2015.04.22 20:41:00 -
[84] - Quote
Koldy Lyte Marven wrote:Seriously... please give me a constructive answer...
During the great slot rebalancing of 2014 (2013? - I forget) all other classes were balanced as to slot layout. The logistics class was put in the backlog of things to come around to balance.
The community could not come to a consensus on how to balance all the logis as a group. Though many viable options were presented. Since that time there have been several constructive Logistics Balancing threads and many attempts by the logi community and the CPMs Cross Atu, Sir Manboy, and almost CPM Pokey Dravon - along with many strong Logibros - to bring balance to the class and each race.
Slot count, slot progression, side arms, bonuses and many other statistics are debated. CCP has yet to return comments, present a plan, or dictate what the changes will be. CPM's communication is relied upon to assure this small community that the dev's are aware of the situation.
As to a fix... there is no telling when or what it will be.
The Amarr sidearm was an outlier in the beginning and the price was a Low slot and and Equipment slot. The price is too high, and the arguments that with only 2EQ at standard level mean that any scout is basically a better logi as the bonus is not that great (as has been laid out) and speed tanking proves better than raw HP in many cases.
As Time went on and Bandwidth was introduced a classification of logis as Active and Defending logi types came into play with Caldari and Amarr being the defenders.... we know all this.
BASICALLY - Amarrr started with a sidearm to be an Assault/Logi Hybrid to have the all drawbacks of being a logi while having the benefit of 1 more equipment slot than the assault (2 at ADV and PRO). We've been awaiting a balancing of Logis for 2+ years and it has yet to take place. That is way the Amarr has a sidearm. If it will keep it or if other Logis will get it is unknown. But that is the why.
The Logi Code. Creator, Believer, Follower
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
Learning Alliance
6358
|
Posted - 2015.04.22 20:48:00 -
[85] - Quote
RedBleach LeSanglant wrote:CPM Pokey Dravon
A bit of prognostication there, but I too support Pokey Dravon for CPM2. 
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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LOOKMOM NOHANDS
547
|
Posted - 2015.04.22 20:48:00 -
[86] - Quote
Vicious Minotaur wrote:They have it because generic homogenized classes are the antithesis of interesting.
Unfortunately, homogenized classes are precisely what people seem to want. Never mind that each race is its own separate entity. People want a one-size fits all mentality.
That mentality screwed over Sentinels and interesting class interplay.
That mentality will probably screw over Logistics, too.
Because case-by-case balancing and ideas would be too interesting, require more thought for balancing, and give the game more depth. Better simplify things to the point of generic-ness!
HOMOGENIZED: It's not just for Milk!!!!!
May as well accept this now. We see what kind of arguing spawns from having a bit of uniqueness even when it comes at great cost.
Lets just make all the logis cookie cutters of each other call it balanced and move on.
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Shamarskii Simon
The Hundred Acre Hood
Rise Of Legion.
360
|
Posted - 2015.04.22 21:09:00 -
[87] - Quote
LOOKMOM NOHANDS wrote:Vicious Minotaur wrote:They have it because generic homogenized classes are the antithesis of interesting.
Unfortunately, homogenized classes are precisely what people seem to want. Never mind that each race is its own separate entity. People want a one-size fits all mentality.
That mentality screwed over Sentinels and interesting class interplay.
That mentality will probably screw over Logistics, too.
Because case-by-case balancing and ideas would be too interesting, require more thought for balancing, and give the game more depth. Better simplify things to the point of generic-ness!
HOMOGENIZED: It's not just for Milk!!!!! May as well accept this now. We see what kind of arguing spawns from having a bit of uniqueness even when it comes at great cost. Lets just make all the logis cookie cutters of each other call it balanced and move on.
Tis the modern gamer. Not tryna off topic but . Look at armored core for example. If you played gen 3 or lower, stepping into 4 is like "wtf?"
... I feel you man... Cookies is what the people want
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
19368
|
Posted - 2015.04.22 21:23:00 -
[88] - Quote
Just call it a medic give it a speed boost shift bonus to repair/revive/respawn and then give the amarr a real logi. Then give everyone else medics.
CPM 1, Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior
\\= ADV HAVs =// Unlocked
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Nocturnal Soul
Primordial Threat
6198
|
Posted - 2015.04.22 21:33:00 -
[89] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Just call it a medic give it a speed boost shift bonus to repair/revive/respawn and then give the amarr a real logi. Then give everyone else medics.
What do you mean real logi? Just because it has a side arm doesn't automatically not make it a logi.
(Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ.
LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
The Incursions are back... and they're golden baby!
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P14GU3
UNIVERSAL C.A.R.N.A.G.E
1458
|
Posted - 2015.04.22 21:47:00 -
[90] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Just call it a medic give it a speed boost shift bonus to repair/revive/respawn and then give the amarr a real logi. Then give everyone else medics.
All the races already have your "medic." They are called scouts...
'Sault AK.0 - Logi AK.0 - Logi GK.0 - Scout GK.0 - 'Mando MK.0 - Masshole in every sense of the word.
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
19368
|
Posted - 2015.04.22 21:47:00 -
[91] - Quote
Nocturnal Soul wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Just call it a medic give it a speed boost shift bonus to repair/revive/respawn and then give the amarr a real logi. Then give everyone else medics. What do you mean real logi? Just because it has a side arm doesn't automatically not make it a logi.
Dunno why do the amarrians have the only medic in the game? Shouldn't that be a gallente thing?
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Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior
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Nocturnal Soul
Primordial Threat
6199
|
Posted - 2015.04.22 21:53:00 -
[92] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Nocturnal Soul wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Just call it a medic give it a speed boost shift bonus to repair/revive/respawn and then give the amarr a real logi. Then give everyone else medics. What do you mean real logi? Just because it has a side arm doesn't automatically not make it a logi. Dunno why do the amarrians have the only medic in the game? Shouldn't that be a gallente thing?
If they did I'd be the same bull just different people... The Amarr logi has a bonus that disappears as soon as it dies which is pointless because you will die in this slow ass suit. All in all this thread is a rant full blanter that'll die as soon as someone finds something else to rant about.
(Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ.
LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
The Incursions are back... and they're golden baby!
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
19368
|
Posted - 2015.04.22 21:53:00 -
[93] - Quote
Nocturnal Soul wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Nocturnal Soul wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Just call it a medic give it a speed boost shift bonus to repair/revive/respawn and then give the amarr a real logi. Then give everyone else medics. What do you mean real logi? Just because it has a side arm doesn't automatically not make it a logi. Dunno why do the amarrians have the only medic in the game? Shouldn't that be a gallente thing? If they did I'd be the same bull just different people... The Amarr logi has a bonus that disappears as soon as it dies which is pointless because you will die in this slow ass suit.
And letting the side arm get in the way of fixing that is excusable?
CPM 1, Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior
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P14GU3
UNIVERSAL C.A.R.N.A.G.E
1459
|
Posted - 2015.04.22 21:54:00 -
[94] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Nocturnal Soul wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Just call it a medic give it a speed boost shift bonus to repair/revive/respawn and then give the amarr a real logi. Then give everyone else medics. What do you mean real logi? Just because it has a side arm doesn't automatically not make it a logi. Dunno why do the amarrians have the only medic in the game? Shouldn't that be a gallente thing?
So, first it should have been a min thing. Now it should be a gal thing?
Im starting to believe you only have an issue with the sidearm because its on the amarr suit...
edit: the amarr are the only race with a main weapon that overheats. Any other race can reload in a second or two and fire again. The amarr have to switch to a sidearm to wait out the cooldown. There are plenty of valid reasons for the amarr to have the sidearm. Many have already been stated in this thread.
'Sault AK.0 - Logi AK.0 - Logi GK.0 - Scout GK.0 - 'Mando MK.0 - Masshole in every sense of the word.
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Nocturnal Soul
Primordial Threat
6199
|
Posted - 2015.04.22 21:55:00 -
[95] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Nocturnal Soul wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Nocturnal Soul wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Just call it a medic give it a speed boost shift bonus to repair/revive/respawn and then give the amarr a real logi. Then give everyone else medics. What do you mean real logi? Just because it has a side arm doesn't automatically not make it a logi. Dunno why do the amarrians have the only medic in the game? Shouldn't that be a gallente thing? If they did I'd be the same bull just different people... The Amarr logi has a bonus that disappears as soon as it dies which is pointless because you will die in this slow ass suit. And letting the side arm get in the way of fixing that is excusable?
How is the removal of the side arm in anyway related to the logi class problems besides you not liking it.
(Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ.
LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
The Incursions are back... and they're golden baby!
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Reign Omega
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
1431
|
Posted - 2015.04.22 23:22:00 -
[96] - Quote
Figure this may be a good time for me to rally the "Logi should ONLY have a sidearm!" Foil brigade.....
Lets be objective across the board for this shall we?
Every suit can use light weapons, and grenades as well as high and low modules.
Sentinel is the only heavy weapon user, but they dont have eq.
Logi don't have sidearm (Save for Amarr).
Commando have 2 lights.
This is about the long and short of variation, any suit can pretty much equip anything else At the risk of gimping the suit.
Cloaks are supposed to be for scouts, but I can squeeze it on any suit with eq.
any suit can use a sidearm in its light or heavy weapon slot.
any suit can fit any eq with no penalty, just no bonus.
Any suit can pilot any vehicle without hinderance.
I can damp any suit to get below most ewar, save for heavy frames
So essentially the only REAL diversity in the game is?
My point being, we should be striving for some uniqueness among all the suits and class types. Weapon bonuses, damage resistance, equipment bonus, fitting reduction, specialization, etc. We should be attempting to widen the space between suits, even of the same type.... not just hammering the mold and slapping modules on for variety.
Mark a$$ tricks, and bags of dicks....
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Thokk Nightshade
Montana Militia
793
|
Posted - 2015.04.23 00:10:00 -
[97] - Quote
RedBleach LeSanglant wrote:Koldy Lyte Marven wrote:Seriously... please give me a constructive answer... During the great slot rebalancing of 2014 (2013? - I forget) all other classes were balanced as to slot layout. The logistics class was put in the backlog of things to come around to balance. The community could not come to a consensus on how to balance all the logis as a group. Though many viable options were presented. Since that time there have been several constructive Logistics Balancing threads and many attempts by the logi community and the CPMs Cross Atu, Sir Manboy, and almost CPM Pokey Dravon - along with many strong Logibros - to bring balance to the class and each race. Slot count, slot progression, side arms, bonuses and many other statistics are debated. CCP has yet to return comments, present a plan, or dictate what the changes will be. CPM's communication is relied upon to assure this small community that the dev's are aware of the situation. As to a fix... there is no telling when or what it will be. The Amarr sidearm was an outlier in the beginning and the price was a Low slot and and Equipment slot. The price is too high, and the arguments that with only 2EQ at standard level mean that any scout is basically a better logi as the bonus is not that great (as has been laid out) and speed tanking proves better than raw HP in many cases. As Time went on and Bandwidth was introduced a classification of logis as Active and Defending logi types came into play with Caldari and Amarr being the defenders.... we know all this. BASICALLY - Amarrr started with a sidearm to be an Assault/Logi Hybrid to have the all drawbacks of being a logi while having the benefit of 1 more equipment slot than the assault (2 at ADV and PRO). We've been awaiting a balancing of Logis for 2+ years and it has yet to take place. That is way the Amarr has a sidearm. If it will keep it or if other Logis will get it is unknown. But that is the why.
I was going to bring up the balancing debate when I started *Reading* the thread. Glad I read to the end because you hit the nail on the head for the most part.
Rattati started talking about "balancing logis." He said the first thing is the Amarr sidearm MUST GO. This caused all sorts of uproar from a lot of people who skilled into the Amarr Logi vs. other logis because of that. After that whole thing blew up, Rattati said no one in the Logi community wanted to make any changes to logis so he was leaving them as is. The only argument and pushback he got was that (for the most part), most people said the Amarr Logi should keep the sidearm. For some reason, because of that pushback, there was a decision to leave Logis totally alone for the time being.
Being a Cal Logi, I think it is O.K. for them to have it. My issue is twofold, both on the Cal Logi side. Why do we not have a 4th equipment slot (give up a low) and the fact our PG/CPU resources are so horrible we have to use that third low I don't want on a CPU generator just to be able to fill out all the slots with something other than a basic or adv mod/weapon/equipment. Drop the 3rd low, give us a 4th equipment slot, and give us enough PG/CPU to make a decent fit without having to waste slots on CPU Generators.
I personally don't WANT the Cal Logi to get a sidearm. I want a 4th equipment slot at proto. I refuse to use my proto logi I am skilled into for this specific reason. Give me a 4th slot and the CPU/PG to run it and I will break out a proto logi on a much more regular basis.
Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.
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Thokk Nightshade
Montana Militia
793
|
Posted - 2015.04.23 00:11:00 -
[98] - Quote
I will add I think a slight bump to HP and speed would be a nice addition as well. It seems logis are really slow and squishy, without the firepower ability of a Commando.
Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.
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Powerh8er
The Rainbow Effect
Negative-Feedback
737
|
Posted - 2015.04.23 00:15:00 -
[99] - Quote
Its because they can better defend the precious uplinks they spam everywhere.
Have you got anymore exploding carrots?
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
19371
|
Posted - 2015.04.23 00:54:00 -
[100] - Quote
Reign Omega wrote:Figure this may be a good time for me to rally the "Logi should ONLY have a sidearm!" Foil brigade.....
Lets be objective across the board for this shall we?
Every suit can use light weapons, and grenades as well as high and low modules.
Sentinel is the only heavy weapon user, but they dont have eq.
Logi don't have sidearm (Save for Amarr).
Commando have 2 lights.
This is about the long and short of variation, any suit can pretty much equip anything else At the risk of gimping the suit.
Cloaks are supposed to be for scouts, but I can squeeze it on any suit with eq.
any suit can use a sidearm in its light or heavy weapon slot.
any suit can fit any eq with no penalty, just no bonus.
Any suit can pilot any vehicle without hinderance.
I can damp any suit to get below most ewar, save for heavy frames
So essentially the only REAL diversity in the game is?
My point being, we should be striving for some uniqueness among all the suits and class types. Weapon bonuses, damage resistance, equipment bonus, fitting reduction, specialization, etc. We should be attempting to widen the space between suits, even of the same type.... not just hammering the mold and slapping modules on for variety.
I disagree with the side arm only thing for the primary reason that sidearms in general are ill sufficient for wet work required by logis. If we had things like more smgs; carbines and the like it would be feasible but as it stands they do not.
Grenades have a large amount of utility variants outside of killing thus logis should continue to have them for those that roll demolitions.
I'm open for light and side and grenade and equal number of equipment across all races. If side gets added to all logis dont compensate the fitting for it for base fitting so that meta level appropriate logis would have to decide if they need to nerf thier spank tank, or gank.
I want logis to be able to keep up with assaults with minimal assistance. I would like to see the Base HP increased slighlty better than assaults but not that much.
I did have silly idea for equipment must fits but it was shot down on the grounds it just seemed too odd to setup that way and I agree considering it would have made it an outlier vs the whole game; modules being put on shouldn't give you more fitting.
Outliers do not belong in empire factions to begin with; that's what pirate/non empire factions are for they got really weird things going on for them that no empire comes close to remotely expressing.
Uniqueness should come from bonuses which are at this point not only broken but near worthless.
Ultimate job of a logi is to support the squad via utility; sentinels and scouts outclass them for uplink defense to be honest.
CPM 1, Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior
\\= ADV HAVs =// Unlocked
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P14GU3
UNIVERSAL C.A.R.N.A.G.E
1465
|
Posted - 2015.04.23 01:34:00 -
[101] - Quote
I worry some of your new ideas may lead to more slayer logis than the amarr sidearm does now IWS, but I do agree the uniqueness of logis should come from the bonus. Instead of higher base hp, each race will get a defensive boost. Amarr gets plates, gal rep, cal extender and min get regulators. And for a logi bonus, all races get 5 % effectiveness to ALL equipment. This was my idea long ago, and among a myriad of other great ideas that should have been implemented instead of these lame bonuses we got.
Edit: I also agree with your faction/pirate statement. I would honestly have no issue losing my amarr sidearm as long as a faction/pirate variant became available for most/all races.
'Sault AK.0 - Logi AK.0 - Logi GK.0 - Scout GK.0 - 'Mando MK.0 - Masshole in every sense of the word.
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
19374
|
Posted - 2015.04.23 19:30:00 -
[102] - Quote
P14GU3 wrote:I worry some of your new ideas may lead to more slayer logis than the amarr sidearm does now IWS, but I do agree the uniqueness of logis should come from the bonus. Instead of higher base hp, each race will get a defensive boost. Amarr gets plates, gal rep, cal extender and min get regulators. And for a logi bonus, all races get 5 % effectiveness to ALL equipment. This was my idea long ago, and among a myriad of other great ideas that should have been implemented instead of these lame bonuses we got.
Edit: I also agree with your faction/pirate statement. I would honestly have no issue losing my amarr sidearm as long as a faction/pirate variant became available for most/all races.
This is where fitting balance should come into play though; give you the options of lots of slots but if you really wanted to match toe to toe with any other class on a specific trait your'e going to consume that flexibility to get there. Yes there is the potential to have abusive setups that do not fit equipment.
That can be easily countered with an extreme equipment fitting bonus and you don't weigh the eq slots for default cpu/pg as heavily. Not fitting equipment? you're only netting one or two more modules tier upgrades in the end so to say.
CPM 1, Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior
\\= ADV HAVs =// Unlocked
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el OPERATOR
Capital Acquisitions LLC
Bad Intention
1019
|
Posted - 2015.04.23 20:09:00 -
[103] - Quote
Jesus.
Christ.
Logis don't need, warrant, or even largely want a full rewrite/rebuild. A couple tweaks here, a couple long overdue buffs there and we're set. Survivable, productive and balanced.
All this crap about we need extensive rewriting is what keeps us from actually getting anything worthwhile at all.
Open-Beta Vet.
Egbinger Original.
DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
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Raven-747
WarRavens
15
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Posted - 2015.04.23 21:14:00 -
[104] - Quote
Its because amarr is too pro and superior to all other races (Unlike them pesky little gal logis scanning from their hiding place)
There are two types of blueberries,1: Melees in the mcc,2: Snipes sitting in the middle of the road or mlt swarms.
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