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Slave of MORTE
365
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Posted - 2015.04.12 00:25:00 -
[61] - Quote
This is the kind of **** posting i expect from gam
I'm her slave because amarrians are the best in the sheets #stamina
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Echo 1991
Titans of Phoenix
RUST415
783
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Posted - 2015.04.12 02:20:00 -
[62] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:Shamarskii Simon wrote:It's not even the tanks themselves... It's the hardeners... That's so easy to fix man.. Its hardeners combined with passive heavy repair modules. The hardeners boost the EHP of the tank quite a bit (x4 for double hardener I think?) which has the side effect of magnifying repair module strength by the same amount, this ends up allowing you to outrep a ludicrous amount of damage just by flipping a switch. This isnt a problem in the gunnlogi since the reps can generally be stopped by damage, but on the madruger the reps just keep going regardless, which results in massive imbalance. Stacking penalties mean double hardeners provide 61% resistance.
How is 40% + (40 x 0.87) = 61% the second hardener only loses about 4% effectiveness. |
Vesta Opalus
Ostrakon Agency
Gallente Federation
603
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Posted - 2015.04.12 02:57:00 -
[63] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:Shamarskii Simon wrote:It's not even the tanks themselves... It's the hardeners... That's so easy to fix man.. Its hardeners combined with passive heavy repair modules. The hardeners boost the EHP of the tank quite a bit (x4 for double hardener I think?) which has the side effect of magnifying repair module strength by the same amount, this ends up allowing you to outrep a ludicrous amount of damage just by flipping a switch. This isnt a problem in the gunnlogi since the reps can generally be stopped by damage, but on the madruger the reps just keep going regardless, which results in massive imbalance. Stacking penalties mean double hardeners provide 61% resistance. How is 40% + (40 x 0.87) = 61% the second hardener only loses about 4% effectiveness.
Looks like 74.8 when I math it out, but I dont know if thats the correct formula |
Shamarskii Simon
The Hundred Acre Hood
Rise Of Legion.
308
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Posted - 2015.04.12 03:40:00 -
[64] - Quote
Vesta Opalus wrote:Echo 1991 wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:Shamarskii Simon wrote:It's not even the tanks themselves... It's the hardeners... That's so easy to fix man.. Its hardeners combined with passive heavy repair modules. The hardeners boost the EHP of the tank quite a bit (x4 for double hardener I think?) which has the side effect of magnifying repair module strength by the same amount, this ends up allowing you to outrep a ludicrous amount of damage just by flipping a switch. This isnt a problem in the gunnlogi since the reps can generally be stopped by damage, but on the madruger the reps just keep going regardless, which results in massive imbalance. Stacking penalties mean double hardeners provide 61% resistance. How is 40% + (40 x 0.87) = 61% the second hardener only loses about 4% effectiveness. Looks like 74.8 when I math it out, but I dont know if thats the correct formula
Use this http://wiki.dust514.info/index.php?title=Stacking_Penalties and put in -40 twice.
I was surprised! But that's what the calculator put out. Individual bonuses: -40.00%, -34.76%, Total bonus: -60.86%
But put 40 twice you get
Individual bonuses: 40.00%, 34.76%, Total bonus: 88.67%
So... I feel where everyone is about stacking penalties
Why am unsure?
Take a calass Ck. 0. Put two complex regs... Remember that number
put two complex regs and one basic reg. It INCREASES the delay.
0.0 and so stacking penalties is unsure to me
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Vesta Opalus
Ostrakon Agency
Gallente Federation
603
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Posted - 2015.04.12 03:54:00 -
[65] - Quote
Lightning35 Delta514 wrote:It's not even Gunnlogis that get wrecked. If it's not a proto (maybe adv) madrugar, ALL VEHICLE will be blown. The pro madrugar is the biggest porblem.
I have a pretty easy time with anything in my standard and advanced madrugers, Im pretty much invincible against anything but multiple tanks or multiple AV or both.
Plenty of times when tanks engage me, if nothing else is attacking me, Ill just pop hardeners and look at them until they go away or I have to leave.
Its pretty funny when sometimes they get the hint and just trundle away, having had the full force of how stupidly invincible the madruger is shoved in their face. |
JARREL THOMAS
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
570
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Posted - 2015.04.12 05:21:00 -
[66] - Quote
Vesta Opalus wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:How many times do I have to say that the answer is not to nerf vehicles, but buff them to whatever level the superior hull is at. You get parity in that fashion, not nerfing so AV has an easier time of destroying it. I don't care what you have to say because no way in hell should armor tanks be invincible to AV. Shield tanks and AV are balanced in my opinion. Armor tanks are definitely not balanced. How is it fair that an armor tank can take 2-3 clips (Clips not swarms) from my Proto Min Commando with proficiency level 4 in swarms and still have full armor? Its not just 2-3 clips, you need to phrase this correctly. You can literally fire swarms at a double hardened madruger at full intensity and his armor hp will be capped at full until his hardeners run out, it doesn't matter how many clips you fire at him. One swarm launcher cannot do enough dps regardless of fitting to even scratch the repair of a hardened madruger.
I'm not saying that gunnlogis should suck, I personally feel they should be buffed because av should require teamwork. But if you were just solo trying to kill na adv/pro tank it should take that long as our tanks now cost a lot more now there's no excuse.
Caldari Loyalist. ( -í° -£-û -í°) They see me rollin they Hating (..) ( l: ) ( .-. ) ( :l ) (..)
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Vesta Opalus
Ostrakon Agency
Gallente Federation
603
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Posted - 2015.04.12 05:22:00 -
[67] - Quote
JARREL THOMAS wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:How many times do I have to say that the answer is not to nerf vehicles, but buff them to whatever level the superior hull is at. You get parity in that fashion, not nerfing so AV has an easier time of destroying it. I don't care what you have to say because no way in hell should armor tanks be invincible to AV. Shield tanks and AV are balanced in my opinion. Armor tanks are definitely not balanced. How is it fair that an armor tank can take 2-3 clips (Clips not swarms) from my Proto Min Commando with proficiency level 4 in swarms and still have full armor? Its not just 2-3 clips, you need to phrase this correctly. You can literally fire swarms at a double hardened madruger at full intensity and his armor hp will be capped at full until his hardeners run out, it doesn't matter how many clips you fire at him. One swarm launcher cannot do enough dps regardless of fitting to even scratch the repair of a hardened madruger. I'm not saying that gunnlogis should suck, I personally feel they should be buffed because av should require teamwork. But if you were just solo trying to kill na adv/pro tank it should take that long as our tanks now cost a lot more now there's no excuse.
Cost is a **** balancing factor when one side of the equation doesnt get to spend money to gain parity. **** cost. **** you. |
JARREL THOMAS
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
570
|
Posted - 2015.04.12 05:25:00 -
[68] - Quote
Vesta Opalus wrote:JARREL THOMAS wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:How many times do I have to say that the answer is not to nerf vehicles, but buff them to whatever level the superior hull is at. You get parity in that fashion, not nerfing so AV has an easier time of destroying it. I don't care what you have to say because no way in hell should armor tanks be invincible to AV. Shield tanks and AV are balanced in my opinion. Armor tanks are definitely not balanced. How is it fair that an armor tank can take 2-3 clips (Clips not swarms) from my Proto Min Commando with proficiency level 4 in swarms and still have full armor? Its not just 2-3 clips, you need to phrase this correctly. You can literally fire swarms at a double hardened madruger at full intensity and his armor hp will be capped at full until his hardeners run out, it doesn't matter how many clips you fire at him. One swarm launcher cannot do enough dps regardless of fitting to even scratch the repair of a hardened madruger. I'm not saying that gunnlogis should suck, I personally feel they should be buffed because av should require teamwork. But if you were just solo trying to kill na adv/pro tank it should take that long as our tanks now cost a lot more now there's no excuse. Cost is a **** balancing factor when one side of the equation doesnt get to spend money to gain parity. **** cost. **** you.
Yeah calm down you look quite childish, and what are you talking about?
Caldari Loyalist. ( -í° -£-û -í°) They see me rollin they Hating (..) ( l: ) ( .-. ) ( :l ) (..)
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Doc DDD
TeamPlayers
Negative-Feedback
427
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Posted - 2015.04.12 15:57:00 -
[69] - Quote
Gunlogis are garbage now compared to madrugars.
Anyone that says otherwise is sitting in the redline (where madrugars would still do the job better).
Gunlogis need a buff. |
Shamarskii Simon
The Hundred Acre Hood
Rise Of Legion.
309
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Posted - 2015.04.12 16:11:00 -
[70] - Quote
Doc DDD wrote:Gunlogis are garbage now compared to madrugars.
Anyone that says otherwise is sitting in the redline (where madrugars would still do the job better).
Gunlogis need a buff.
Give shields 1.7 hardeners and it's fair :/
Cause that's what it looks like we should do... Knowing aHardeners are back to 1.7 level :/
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GVGMODE
191
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Posted - 2015.04.12 16:32:00 -
[71] - Quote
I always thought that the reasoning behind long cooldowns and short durations was that shield hardeners used to have 60% resistance.
There are just so many problems with tanks, that I will just say CCP will take ~6 months to come up with an update that will improve tanks slightly. (SOON TM)
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Random1628
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
3
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Posted - 2015.04.12 16:42:00 -
[72] - Quote
Shamarskii Simon wrote:Use this http://wiki.dust514.info/index.php?title=Stacking_Penalties and put in -40 twice. I was surprised! But that's what the calculator put out. Individual bonuses: -40.00%, -34.76%, Total bonus: -60.86% But put 40 twice you get Individual bonuses: 40.00%, 34.76%, Total bonus: 88.67% So... I feel where everyone is about stacking penalties Why am unsure? Take a calass Ck. 0. Put two complex regs... Remember that number put two complex regs and one basic reg. It INCREASES the delay. 0.0 and so stacking penalties is unsure to me
I think the way it works is that with hardeners it affects the remaining unhardened HP so that would mean that the 34% is affecting the 60% unhardened HP. It probably this way so that it's impossible to get 100% hardened. |
Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1454
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Posted - 2015.04.12 16:51:00 -
[73] - Quote
Shamarskii Simon wrote:Doc DDD wrote:Gunlogis are garbage now compared to madrugars.
Anyone that says otherwise is sitting in the redline (where madrugars would still do the job better).
Gunlogis need a buff. Give shields 1.7 hardeners and it's fair :/ Cause that's what it looks like we should do... Knowing aHardeners are back to 1.7 level :/
If aHardeners are going to be the same resistance, then they need to be differentiated through uptime/cooldown. Currently, sHardeners are worse in uptime (PRO: 24/30 vs 36/45) 30 vs 45), cooldown (PRO: 60/45 vs 50/37.5) and fittings are somewhat wonky (PRO: 341CPU/253PG vs 133CPU/397PG - not entirely sure these are out of line, they just 'feel' a little odd.)
Basically, Shields needs to have some aspect that's better, while the third element is neutral: so Shields have better downtime, Armour has better uptime and both are equal on resistance, for example.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Shamarskii Simon
The Hundred Acre Hood
Rise Of Legion.
310
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Posted - 2015.04.12 16:53:00 -
[74] - Quote
Random1628 wrote:Shamarskii Simon wrote:Use this http://wiki.dust514.info/index.php?title=Stacking_Penalties and put in -40 twice. I was surprised! But that's what the calculator put out. Individual bonuses: -40.00%, -34.76%, Total bonus: -60.86% But put 40 twice you get Individual bonuses: 40.00%, 34.76%, Total bonus: 88.67% So... I feel where everyone is about stacking penalties Why am unsure? Take a calass Ck. 0. Put two complex regs... Remember that number put two complex regs and one basic reg. It INCREASES the delay. 0.0 and so stacking penalties is unsure to me I think the way it works is that with hardeners it affects the remaining unhardened HP so that would mean that the 34% is affecting the 60% unhardened HP. It probably this way so that it's impossible to get 100% hardened.
You can 100% harden (effectively doubling xHP) with triple hardening.
But i know you mean damage reduction... Which it is impossible to attenuate 100% of the damage
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Random1628
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
3
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Posted - 2015.04.12 16:55:00 -
[75] - Quote
GVGMODE wrote:I always thought that the reasoning behind long cooldowns and short durations was that shield hardeners used to have 60% resistance.
There are just so many problems with tanks, that I will just say CCP will take ~6 months to come up with an update that will improve tanks slightly. (SOON TM)
There were many problems with tank balance in the past but for the all most part they have it balanced currently it's just a few tweaks to the numbers and changing armor reps back to active modules. Though I guess there needs to be a lot of changes to the shield modules numbers I don't think they're drastic changes though. |
Random1628
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
3
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Posted - 2015.04.12 17:00:00 -
[76] - Quote
Shamarskii Simon wrote:Random1628 wrote:Shamarskii Simon wrote:Use this http://wiki.dust514.info/index.php?title=Stacking_Penalties and put in -40 twice. I was surprised! But that's what the calculator put out. Individual bonuses: -40.00%, -34.76%, Total bonus: -60.86% But put 40 twice you get Individual bonuses: 40.00%, 34.76%, Total bonus: 88.67% So... I feel where everyone is about stacking penalties Why am unsure? Take a calass Ck. 0. Put two complex regs... Remember that number put two complex regs and one basic reg. It INCREASES the delay. 0.0 and so stacking penalties is unsure to me I think the way it works is that with hardeners it affects the remaining unhardened HP so that would mean that the 34% is affecting the 60% unhardened HP. It probably this way so that it's impossible to get 100% hardened. You can 100% harden (effectively doubling xHP) with triple hardening. But i know you mean damage reduction... Which it is impossible to attenuate 100% of the damage
Yes you can double HP but that's not what hardening is. Hardening is reducing damage which is why I said it is imposible to get 100% and it why hardeners only affect unhardened HP. |
Sir Dukey
G0DS AM0NG MEN
General Tso's Alliance
2015
|
Posted - 2015.04.12 17:57:00 -
[77] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Shamarskii Simon wrote:Doc DDD wrote:Gunlogis are garbage now compared to madrugars.
Anyone that says otherwise is sitting in the redline (where madrugars would still do the job better).
Gunlogis need a buff. Give shields 1.7 hardeners and it's fair :/ Cause that's what it looks like we should do... Knowing aHardeners are back to 1.7 level :/ If aHardeners are going to be the same resistance, then they need to be differentiated through uptime/cooldown. Currently, sHardeners are worse in uptime (PRO: 24/30 vs 36/45) 30 vs 45), cooldown (PRO: 60/45 vs 50/37.5) and fittings are somewhat wonky (PRO: 341CPU/253PG vs 133CPU/397PG - not entirely sure these are out of line, they just 'feel' a little odd.) Basically, Shields needs to have some aspect that's better, while the third element is neutral: so Shields have better downtime, Armour has better uptime and both are equal on resistance, for example.
Read OP, I explain why fitting cost's are out of line for shield hardeners.
"Skill for thee but no skill for me" so is the saying of the swarm infantry.
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SgtMajSquish MLBJ
Consolidated Dust
421
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Posted - 2015.04.12 18:01:00 -
[78] - Quote
Sir Dukey wrote:JUPA SACH wrote:Are you aware that all you do is complain about everything? Are you aware that this game is unbalanced?
no...... really?
CPMs should stop acting like they have power and remember their true position. Scapegoats for CCP
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Sir Dukey
G0DS AM0NG MEN
General Tso's Alliance
2015
|
Posted - 2015.04.12 18:06:00 -
[79] - Quote
SgtMajSquish MLBJ wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:JUPA SACH wrote:Are you aware that all you do is complain about everything? Are you aware that this game is unbalanced? no...... really?
Well then, what is wrong with complaining?
"Skill for thee but no skill for me" so is the saying of the swarm infantry.
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THUNDERGROOVE
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
1704
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Posted - 2015.04.12 21:15:00 -
[80] - Quote
Sir Dukey wrote:JUPA SACH wrote:Are you aware that all you do is complain about everything? Are you aware that this game is unbalanced?
It was a yes or no question.
Mace yourself, blame someone else itGÇÖs okay, no one will believe you
AIV member.
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501st Headstrong
0uter.Heaven
Back and Forth
931
|
Posted - 2015.04.12 21:44:00 -
[81] - Quote
I'm not a tanker, but I'm confused as to why people believe 1 Aver should be able to pop a 1.3 mil Isk tank with hardeners on...Is that vehicle suppose to be a battle tank or a firecracker?
I mean Dukey, I understand what you are saying about Shield Tankers. Gunlogis do need a buff...but your Heavy analogy makes little sense to me because a Sentinel suit does not cost 1.3 million isk. My isk invested should equal increase slaying capacity. This is why proto costs more than advanced. By that logic, fielding a 1 million isk asset should be able to at least clear out one proto Aver when hardened.
You Shield Tankers work out how to Buff Gunnlogis, but do not Nerf the Madrugar. Make it to where both kick some serious arse, not give free 150 WPs.
07
"There are no rights. The world owes no one a living."-Sumner
*The Mascot of 0uter.Heaven *
SWBF Trailer April
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JARREL THOMAS
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
571
|
Posted - 2015.04.12 21:47:00 -
[82] - Quote
501st Headstrong wrote:I'm not a tanker, but I'm confused as to why people believe 1 Aver should be able to pop a 1.3 mil Isk tank with hardeners on...Is that vehicle suppose to be a battle tank or a firecracker?
I mean Dukey, I understand what you are saying about Shield Tankers. Gunlogis do need a buff...but your Heavy analogy makes little sense to me because a Sentinel suit does not cost 1.3 million isk. My isk invested should equal increase slaying capacity. This is why proto costs more than advanced. By that logic, fielding a 1 million isk asset should be able to at least clear out one proto Aver when hardened.
You Shield Tankers work out how to Buff Gunnlogis, but do not Nerf the Madrugar. Make it to where both kick some serious arse, not give free 150 WPs.
07
Thank you!!
Caldari Loyalist. ( -í° -£-û -í°) They see me rollin they Hating (..) ( l: ) ( .-. ) ( :l ) (..)
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501st Headstrong
0uter.Heaven
Back and Forth
931
|
Posted - 2015.04.12 21:55:00 -
[83] - Quote
Also wanting to bring up that dropsuits that are specialized, such as the Sentinel, do get hardener like bonuses in the form of Resistances. Sure, 15% isn't nearly 40, but these are omnipresent, and do not need to be cycled or recharged.
And curiousity: are the Marduk and Gladius DHAVs or UHAVS, or neither? No one really uses them because of the tighter fitting capacity.
07
"There are no rights. The world owes no one a living."-Sumner
*The Mascot of 0uter.Heaven *
SWBF Trailer April
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One Eyed King
Nos Nothi
9321
|
Posted - 2015.04.12 22:10:00 -
[84] - Quote
501st Headstrong wrote:I'm not a tanker, but I'm confused as to why people believe 1 Aver should be able to pop a 1.3 mil Isk tank with hardeners on...Is that vehicle suppose to be a battle tank or a firecracker?
I mean Dukey, I understand what you are saying about Shield Tankers. Gunlogis do need a buff...but your Heavy analogy makes little sense to me because a Sentinel suit does not cost 1.3 million isk. My isk invested should equal increase slaying capacity. This is why proto costs more than advanced. By that logic, fielding a 1 million isk asset should be able to at least clear out one proto Aver when hardened.
You Shield Tankers work out how to Buff Gunnlogis, but do not Nerf the Madrugar. Make it to where both kick some serious arse, not give free 150 WPs.
07
Instapop, no, but I think combined with how accurate some of the large turrets are regarding AI, its an OP double whammy. The "waves of opportunity" are too long, and the vulnerability too narrow.
I think we should at least be able to do enough damage to require some maneuverability skill, hiding behind cover, escaping etc.
As it is, they can just sit there and take as many shots as they please with no fear of being damaged, while still being fast enough to chase anyone trying to hide.
A single Tanker shouldn't take 4 or 5 dedicated AV out of the game just in order to be chased off. Particularly when AV itself makes one vulnerable to infantry.
Former CEO of the Land of the BIind.
Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
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501st Headstrong
0uter.Heaven
Back and Forth
931
|
Posted - 2015.04.12 22:18:00 -
[85] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:501st Headstrong wrote:I'm not a tanker, but I'm confused as to why people believe 1 Aver should be able to pop a 1.3 mil Isk tank with hardeners on...Is that vehicle suppose to be a battle tank or a firecracker?
I mean Dukey, I understand what you are saying about Shield Tankers. Gunlogis do need a buff...but your Heavy analogy makes little sense to me because a Sentinel suit does not cost 1.3 million isk. My isk invested should equal increase slaying capacity. This is why proto costs more than advanced. By that logic, fielding a 1 million isk asset should be able to at least clear out one proto Aver when hardened.
You Shield Tankers work out how to Buff Gunnlogis, but do not Nerf the Madrugar. Make it to where both kick some serious arse, not give free 150 WPs.
07 Instapop, no, but I think combined with how accurate some of the large turrets are regarding AI, its an OP double whammy. The "waves of opportunity" are too long, and the vulnerability too narrow. I think we should at least be able to do enough damage to require some maneuverability skill, hiding behind cover, escaping etc. As it is, they can just sit there and take as many shots as they please with no fear of being damaged, while still being fast enough to chase anyone trying to hide. A single Tanker shouldn't take 4 or 5 dedicated AV out of the game just in order to be chased off. Particularly when AV itself makes one vulnerable to infantry.
I respectfully disagree. 1.3 million should not go down to 1 AV. If so, what happens when a whole squad goes AV, which I assure you happens. Furthermore, this argument of AV is vulnerable is rather false, as most AV is up high, where they cannot be easily hit by ground infantry. They are also commandos, which possess offensive capabilities. 1 AV vs 1 Proto Tank should make the tanker nervous, but not worried for his tank. Worried because that AVer is going to tell his whole squad, and that then he'll have 6 AV after them. In PC, forgers and swarms are abundant. Tankers do get popped. However, not from a solo infantry unless they are Godly good.
Multiple AV to kill a Proto Tank.
Proto Tank to kill a Proto Tank
Proto Tank and gunners to kills a proto tank
Proto tank and AV to kill a Proto Tank
Not 1 AV to kill a Proto Tank
Spin it however you want, but that is in noway fair. And people need to keep in mind that nerfing armor hardeners also hurts ADSs
07
"There are no rights. The world owes no one a living."-Sumner
*The Mascot of 0uter.Heaven *
SWBF Trailer April
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
18192
|
Posted - 2015.04.12 22:25:00 -
[86] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:How many times do I have to say that the answer is not to nerf vehicles, but buff them to whatever level the superior hull is at. You get parity in that fashion, not nerfing so AV has an easier time of destroying it. I don't care what you have to say because no way in hell should armor tanks be invincible to AV. Shield tanks and AV are balanced in my opinion. Armor tanks are definitely not balanced. How is it fair that an armor tank can take 2-3 clips (Clips not swarms) from my Proto Min Commando with proficiency level 4 in swarms and still have full armor? It's not. Passive Armor Repair remains one of the dumber things we've received in this game. Changing stats isn't going to address this. Armor Repair modules need to go back to being active modules like they used to be. Being able to constantly gain up to 200+ hp per SECOND without any cost doesn't make much sense from a balance standpoint, and that fact has just been becoming more and more obvious over time.
The actually rep rates aren't the problem it's that they are constant rather than active over a set duration. Without those repair values armour HAV would struggle against AV.
Think of it this way. The only Heavy Efficient Repairer repped 414 armour every 3 seconds for a total of 15 seconds and 2070 armour total. On a per second value this is 138 armour repaired per second on the top tier repper. Nothing wrong the with rep values themselves. Just the nature of the module.
GÇ£That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die.GÇ¥
-The Nameless City
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One Eyed King
Nos Nothi
9321
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Posted - 2015.04.12 22:28:00 -
[87] - Quote
501st Headstrong wrote:
I respectfully disagree. 1.3 million should not go down to 1 AV. If so, what happens when a whole squad goes AV, which I assure you happens. Furthermore, this argument of AV is vulnerable is rather false, as most AV is up high, where they cannot be easily hit by ground infantry. They are also commandos, which possess offensive capabilities. 1 AV vs 1 Proto Tank should make the tanker nervous, but not worried for his tank. Worried because that AVer is going to tell his whole squad, and that then he'll have 6 AV after them. In PC, forgers and swarms are abundant. Tankers do get popped. However, not from a solo infantry unless they are Godly good.
Multiple AV to kill a Proto Tank.
Proto Tank to kill a Proto Tank
Proto Tank and gunners to kills a proto tank
Proto tank and AV to kill a Proto Tank
Not 1 AV to kill a Proto Tank
Spin it however you want, but that is in noway fair. And people need to keep in mind that nerfing armor hardeners also hurts ADSs. I do support the slowing of tanks while hardener however, as more solidying an object increases it's weight and gravity, and so reducing speeds and maneuverability. I don't feel however that for shields that should be the case, thus giving them a fairly nice advantage of outmaneuvering armor if they can.
07
I do not think an expensive tank should go down easily, however there should be enough danger that it presents a risk.
Right now, they basically shrug it off and shoot me down as if I were a fly. And frankly, I might as well be. I pose zero risk to them because I can do, maybe, 10% damage with a full volley of proto swarms. They would literally have to LET me kill them.
Then when you add on top of that certain large turrets with next to no skill needed to mow down infantry, the risk/rewards are waaaay off.
PC is not the only game mode.
Should these tanks be limited to FW/PC?
I get balancing around PC, but Pubs need to be playable as well, and there are plenty of games where anyone might as well not play if there are tankers about, because there is nothing anyone can do about them.
Former CEO of the Land of the BIind.
Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
18192
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Posted - 2015.04.12 22:30:00 -
[88] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:501st Headstrong wrote:I'm not a tanker, but I'm confused as to why people believe 1 Aver should be able to pop a 1.3 mil Isk tank with hardeners on...Is that vehicle suppose to be a battle tank or a firecracker?
I mean Dukey, I understand what you are saying about Shield Tankers. Gunlogis do need a buff...but your Heavy analogy makes little sense to me because a Sentinel suit does not cost 1.3 million isk. My isk invested should equal increase slaying capacity. This is why proto costs more than advanced. By that logic, fielding a 1 million isk asset should be able to at least clear out one proto Aver when hardened.
You Shield Tankers work out how to Buff Gunnlogis, but do not Nerf the Madrugar. Make it to where both kick some serious arse, not give free 150 WPs.
07 Instapop, no, but I think combined with how accurate some of the large turrets are regarding AI, its an OP double whammy. The "waves of opportunity" are too long, and the vulnerability too narrow. I think we should at least be able to do enough damage to require some maneuverability skill, hiding behind cover, escaping etc. As it is, they can just sit there and take as many shots as they please with no fear of being damaged, while still being fast enough to chase anyone trying to hide. A single Tanker shouldn't take 4 or 5 dedicated AV out of the game just in order to be chased off. Particularly when AV itself makes one vulnerable to infantry.
Except when I am good enough at my role I can manage to survive against 5 AVers but using speed, terrain, modules, and firepower.
Some players in Dust can go out of their way and manage to kill insane numbers of players, more so than I've seen any tank recently able to achieve, and still score good KDR's and all players do it salute them on "mad playz". It is wrong that I am better/ more able to deal with a forger with his proto Ishukone Assault Forge and Packed Lai Dai's and the hopping dicklord PLC scout he's running with?
GÇ£That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die.GÇ¥
-The Nameless City
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One Eyed King
Nos Nothi
9321
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Posted - 2015.04.12 22:36:00 -
[89] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:One Eyed King wrote:501st Headstrong wrote:I'm not a tanker, but I'm confused as to why people believe 1 Aver should be able to pop a 1.3 mil Isk tank with hardeners on...Is that vehicle suppose to be a battle tank or a firecracker?
I mean Dukey, I understand what you are saying about Shield Tankers. Gunlogis do need a buff...but your Heavy analogy makes little sense to me because a Sentinel suit does not cost 1.3 million isk. My isk invested should equal increase slaying capacity. This is why proto costs more than advanced. By that logic, fielding a 1 million isk asset should be able to at least clear out one proto Aver when hardened.
You Shield Tankers work out how to Buff Gunnlogis, but do not Nerf the Madrugar. Make it to where both kick some serious arse, not give free 150 WPs.
07 Instapop, no, but I think combined with how accurate some of the large turrets are regarding AI, its an OP double whammy. The "waves of opportunity" are too long, and the vulnerability too narrow. I think we should at least be able to do enough damage to require some maneuverability skill, hiding behind cover, escaping etc. As it is, they can just sit there and take as many shots as they please with no fear of being damaged, while still being fast enough to chase anyone trying to hide. A single Tanker shouldn't take 4 or 5 dedicated AV out of the game just in order to be chased off. Particularly when AV itself makes one vulnerable to infantry. Except when I am good enough at my role I can manage to survive against 5 AVers but using speed, terrain, modules, and firepower. Some players in Dust can go out of their way and manage to kill insane numbers of players, more so than I've seen any tank recently able to achieve, and still score good KDR's and all players do it salute them on "mad playz". It is wrong that I am better/ more able to deal with a forger with his proto Ishukone Assault Forge and Packed Lai Dai's and the hopping dicklord PLC scout he's running with?
If it were a matter of skill, I would be fine with it.
I do not believe that is the case however.
If it was skill, it wouldn't just be any tanker doing it, but even mediocre tankers have no problem taking down AV.
We shouldn't get to a point where the only solution to a tank is another tank, or 1/4 of the other team, just for one player.
I don't even care if they have to decrease the costs of tanks to bring them more in line if need be, I just don't think they are balanced right now.
Former CEO of the Land of the BIind.
Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
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JARREL THOMAS
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
573
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Posted - 2015.04.12 22:45:00 -
[90] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:501st Headstrong wrote:I'm not a tanker, but I'm confused as to why people believe 1 Aver should be able to pop a 1.3 mil Isk tank with hardeners on...Is that vehicle suppose to be a battle tank or a firecracker?
I mean Dukey, I understand what you are saying about Shield Tankers. Gunlogis do need a buff...but your Heavy analogy makes little sense to me because a Sentinel suit does not cost 1.3 million isk. My isk invested should equal increase slaying capacity. This is why proto costs more than advanced. By that logic, fielding a 1 million isk asset should be able to at least clear out one proto Aver when hardened.
You Shield Tankers work out how to Buff Gunnlogis, but do not Nerf the Madrugar. Make it to where both kick some serious arse, not give free 150 WPs.
07 Instapop, no, but I think combined with how accurate some of the large turrets are regarding AI, its an OP double whammy. The "waves of opportunity" are too long, and the vulnerability too narrow. I think we should at least be able to do enough damage to require some maneuverability skill, hiding behind cover, escaping etc. As it is, they can just sit there and take as many shots as they please with no fear of being damaged, while still being fast enough to chase anyone trying to hide. A single Tanker shouldn't take 4 or 5 dedicated AV out of the game just in order to be chased off. Particularly when AV itself makes one vulnerable to infantry.
When I'm in squads it only takes 3 people to destroy a tank 3 av or 2 av 1 av vehicles not four-five, and when it comes to chasing away if we can't kill him (which never happens  we make them hate the sight of us to the point where he just sits in the redline or recalls it.
Caldari Loyalist. ( -í° -£-û -í°) They see me rollin they Hating (..) ( l: ) ( .-. ) ( :l ) (..)
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