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Vesta Opalus
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
589
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Posted - 2015.04.08 17:01:00 -
[1] - Quote
Sir Dukey wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:How many times do I have to say that the answer is not to nerf vehicles, but buff them to whatever level the superior hull is at. You get parity in that fashion, not nerfing so AV has an easier time of destroying it. I don't care what you have to say because no way in hell should armor tanks be invincible to AV. Shield tanks and AV are balanced in my opinion. Armor tanks are definitely not balanced. How is it fair that an armor tank can take 2-3 clips (Clips not swarms) from my Proto Min Commando with proficiency level 4 in swarms and still have full armor?
Its not just 2-3 clips, you need to phrase this correctly. You can literally fire swarms at a double hardened madruger at full intensity and his armor hp will be capped at full until his hardeners run out, it doesn't matter how many clips you fire at him. One swarm launcher cannot do enough dps regardless of fitting to even scratch the repair of a hardened madruger. |
Vesta Opalus
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
589
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 17:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
JUPA SACH wrote:Are you aware that all you do is complain about everything?
You're just complaining that he's complaining, but everyone knows hes right.
Gunnlogis are complete crap compared to madrugers right now, not because the gunnlogis are bad, its because the madrugers have such high reps with hardeners up that they cannot be killed by people running prototype weaponry unless there are 3 or more attacking. |
Vesta Opalus
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
589
|
Posted - 2015.04.08 19:55:00 -
[3] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:How many times do I have to say that the answer is not to nerf vehicles, but buff them to whatever level the superior hull is at. You get parity in that fashion, not nerfing so AV has an easier time of destroying it. I don't care what you have to say because no way in hell should armor tanks be invincible to AV. Shield tanks and AV are balanced in my opinion. Armor tanks are definitely not balanced. How is it fair that an armor tank can take 2-3 clips (Clips not swarms) from my Proto Min Commando with proficiency level 4 in swarms and still have full armor? Its not just 2-3 clips, you need to phrase this correctly. You can literally fire swarms at a double hardened madruger at full intensity and his armor hp will be capped at full until his hardeners run out, it doesn't matter how many clips you fire at him. One swarm launcher cannot do enough dps regardless of fitting to even scratch the repair of a hardened madruger. And that is exactly what should happen.If a single swarmed can still kill a double hardened tank, hardeners have absolutely no point in existing. It should take multiple people to kill a hardened tank. The problem is how quickly they can escape once it wears off. Tone down tank speed and greatly tone down tank acceleration, and we will finally have tanks in a close to balanced place.
Why should it take multiple people to kill a double hardened tank? It was already hard before, unless the tanker was certifiably ********, but the way hardeners combine with reps and armor hp makes it literally impossible now to kill a madruger until their hardeners go down. Why is that ok? Maybe if infantry had modules that boosted their damage so they could overcome the hardeners, it would be fine, but they dont. There is no AV/V balance when you can simply choose to negate AV completely when you fit your tank. Its not even a matter of tactics or ambush, its just straight up impossible for a single person to kill a tank fitted with 2 repairs and 2 hardeners unless the tanker just does not react.
Could you imagine how absurd it would be if infantry had fits like that? Heavies walking around, literally invincible to every weapon on the field, unkillable until their hardeners went down, is that something you are ok with? If not, then why is it ok for tanks? |
Vesta Opalus
Ostrakon Agency
Gallente Federation
600
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Posted - 2015.04.10 17:05:00 -
[4] - Quote
Shamarskii Simon wrote:It's not even the tanks themselves... It's the hardeners... That's so easy to fix man..
Its hardeners combined with passive heavy repair modules. The hardeners boost the EHP of the tank quite a bit (x4 for double hardener I think?) which has the side effect of magnifying repair module strength by the same amount, this ends up allowing you to outrep a ludicrous amount of damage just by flipping a switch. This isnt a problem in the gunnlogi since the reps can generally be stopped by damage, but on the madruger the reps just keep going regardless, which results in massive imbalance. |
Vesta Opalus
Ostrakon Agency
Gallente Federation
600
|
Posted - 2015.04.10 17:13:00 -
[5] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:So as usual nerf the only useful vehicle and HAV there is to the point where it is useless and unusable like the other HAV and basically give AV another easy target to kill because you nerfed the only useful vehicle left.
While we are at it nerf hardeners because AV shouldn't have to deal with them because if you can't cause damage when 2 hardeners are on then obv your AV weapon is broken and that is unfair.
Roll on PS2
Gunnlogi isnt useless and unusable if you fix the madruger so that it doesnt completely dominate the gunnlogi.
Im not sure if your second comment is sarcastic or not, since its actually factually correct: if you cant use a weapon to hurt something, it is quite literally broken, which is unfair in a game.
All they really need to do to fix this is to make it so repair rate is reduced in proportion to the amount of hardening, meaning the repair rate would no longer be magnified by an absurd amount because the hardeners are cranking up your EHP. Instead you will just get a massive EHP boost with no rep boost, which might actually be balanced. |
Vesta Opalus
Ostrakon Agency
Gallente Federation
603
|
Posted - 2015.04.12 02:57:00 -
[6] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:Shamarskii Simon wrote:It's not even the tanks themselves... It's the hardeners... That's so easy to fix man.. Its hardeners combined with passive heavy repair modules. The hardeners boost the EHP of the tank quite a bit (x4 for double hardener I think?) which has the side effect of magnifying repair module strength by the same amount, this ends up allowing you to outrep a ludicrous amount of damage just by flipping a switch. This isnt a problem in the gunnlogi since the reps can generally be stopped by damage, but on the madruger the reps just keep going regardless, which results in massive imbalance. Stacking penalties mean double hardeners provide 61% resistance. How is 40% + (40 x 0.87) = 61% the second hardener only loses about 4% effectiveness.
Looks like 74.8 when I math it out, but I dont know if thats the correct formula |
Vesta Opalus
Ostrakon Agency
Gallente Federation
603
|
Posted - 2015.04.12 03:54:00 -
[7] - Quote
Lightning35 Delta514 wrote:It's not even Gunnlogis that get wrecked. If it's not a proto (maybe adv) madrugar, ALL VEHICLE will be blown. The pro madrugar is the biggest porblem.
I have a pretty easy time with anything in my standard and advanced madrugers, Im pretty much invincible against anything but multiple tanks or multiple AV or both.
Plenty of times when tanks engage me, if nothing else is attacking me, Ill just pop hardeners and look at them until they go away or I have to leave.
Its pretty funny when sometimes they get the hint and just trundle away, having had the full force of how stupidly invincible the madruger is shoved in their face. |
Vesta Opalus
Ostrakon Agency
Gallente Federation
603
|
Posted - 2015.04.12 05:22:00 -
[8] - Quote
JARREL THOMAS wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:How many times do I have to say that the answer is not to nerf vehicles, but buff them to whatever level the superior hull is at. You get parity in that fashion, not nerfing so AV has an easier time of destroying it. I don't care what you have to say because no way in hell should armor tanks be invincible to AV. Shield tanks and AV are balanced in my opinion. Armor tanks are definitely not balanced. How is it fair that an armor tank can take 2-3 clips (Clips not swarms) from my Proto Min Commando with proficiency level 4 in swarms and still have full armor? Its not just 2-3 clips, you need to phrase this correctly. You can literally fire swarms at a double hardened madruger at full intensity and his armor hp will be capped at full until his hardeners run out, it doesn't matter how many clips you fire at him. One swarm launcher cannot do enough dps regardless of fitting to even scratch the repair of a hardened madruger. I'm not saying that gunnlogis should suck, I personally feel they should be buffed because av should require teamwork. But if you were just solo trying to kill na adv/pro tank it should take that long as our tanks now cost a lot more now there's no excuse.
Cost is a **** balancing factor when one side of the equation doesnt get to spend money to gain parity. **** cost. **** you. |
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