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One Eyed King wrote:

501st Headstrong wrote:

I'm not a tanker, but I'm confused as to why people believe 1 Aver should be able to pop a 1.3 mil Isk tank with hardeners on...Is that vehicle suppose to be a battle tank or a firecracker?

I mean Dukey, I understand what you are saying about Shield Tankers. Gunlogis do need a buff...but your Heavy analogy makes little sense to me because a Sentinel suit does not cost 1.3 million isk. My isk invested should equal increase slaying capacity. This is why proto costs more than advanced. By that logic, fielding a 1 million isk asset should be able to at least clear out one proto Aver when hardened.

You Shield Tankers work out how to Buff Gunnlogis, but do not Nerf the Madrugar. Make it to where both kick some serious arse, not give free 150 WPs.

07

Instapop, no, but I think combined with how accurate some of the large turrets are regarding AI, its an OP double whammy. The "waves of opportunity" are too long, and the vulnerability too narrow.

I think we should at least be able to do enough damage to require some maneuverability skill, hiding behind cover, escaping etc.

As it is, they can just sit there and take as many shots as they please with no fear of being damaged, while still being fast enough to chase anyone trying to hide.

A single Tanker shouldn't take 4 or 5 dedicated AV out of the game just in order to be chased off. Particularly when AV itself makes one vulnerable to infantry.


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501st Headstrong 0uter.Heaven Back and Forth 931	Posted - 2015.04.12 21:44:00 - [1] - Quote I'm not a tanker, but I'm confused as to why people believe 1 Aver should be able to pop a 1.3 mil Isk tank with hardeners on...Is that vehicle suppose to be a battle tank or a firecracker? I mean Dukey, I understand what you are saying about Shield Tankers. Gunlogis do need a buff...but your Heavy analogy makes little sense to me because a Sentinel suit does not cost 1.3 million isk. My isk invested should equal increase slaying capacity. This is why proto costs more than advanced. By that logic, fielding a 1 million isk asset should be able to at least clear out one proto Aver when hardened. You Shield Tankers work out how to Buff Gunnlogis, but do not Nerf the Madrugar. Make it to where both kick some serious arse, not give free 150 WPs. 07 "There are no rights. The world owes no one a living."-Sumner *The Mascot of 0uter.Heaven * SWBF Trailer April
501st Headstrong 0uter.Heaven Back and Forth 931	Posted - 2015.04.12 21:55:00 - [2] - Quote Also wanting to bring up that dropsuits that are specialized, such as the Sentinel, do get hardener like bonuses in the form of Resistances. Sure, 15% isn't nearly 40, but these are omnipresent, and do not need to be cycled or recharged. And curiousity: are the Marduk and Gladius DHAVs or UHAVS, or neither? No one really uses them because of the tighter fitting capacity. 07 "There are no rights. The world owes no one a living."-Sumner *The Mascot of 0uter.Heaven * SWBF Trailer April
501st Headstrong 0uter.Heaven Back and Forth 931	Posted - 2015.04.12 22:18:00 - [3] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: 501st Headstrong wrote: I'm not a tanker, but I'm confused as to why people believe 1 Aver should be able to pop a 1.3 mil Isk tank with hardeners on...Is that vehicle suppose to be a battle tank or a firecracker? I mean Dukey, I understand what you are saying about Shield Tankers. Gunlogis do need a buff...but your Heavy analogy makes little sense to me because a Sentinel suit does not cost 1.3 million isk. My isk invested should equal increase slaying capacity. This is why proto costs more than advanced. By that logic, fielding a 1 million isk asset should be able to at least clear out one proto Aver when hardened. You Shield Tankers work out how to Buff Gunnlogis, but do not Nerf the Madrugar. Make it to where both kick some serious arse, not give free 150 WPs. 07 Instapop, no, but I think combined with how accurate some of the large turrets are regarding AI, its an OP double whammy. The "waves of opportunity" are too long, and the vulnerability too narrow. I think we should at least be able to do enough damage to require some maneuverability skill, hiding behind cover, escaping etc. As it is, they can just sit there and take as many shots as they please with no fear of being damaged, while still being fast enough to chase anyone trying to hide. A single Tanker shouldn't take 4 or 5 dedicated AV out of the game just in order to be chased off. Particularly when AV itself makes one vulnerable to infantry. I respectfully disagree. 1.3 million should not go down to 1 AV. If so, what happens when a whole squad goes AV, which I assure you happens. Furthermore, this argument of AV is vulnerable is rather false, as most AV is up high, where they cannot be easily hit by ground infantry. They are also commandos, which possess offensive capabilities. 1 AV vs 1 Proto Tank should make the tanker nervous, but not worried for his tank. Worried because that AVer is going to tell his whole squad, and that then he'll have 6 AV after them. In PC, forgers and swarms are abundant. Tankers do get popped. However, not from a solo infantry unless they are Godly good. Multiple AV to kill a Proto Tank. Proto Tank to kill a Proto Tank Proto Tank and gunners to kills a proto tank Proto tank and AV to kill a Proto Tank Not 1 AV to kill a Proto Tank Spin it however you want, but that is in noway fair. And people need to keep in mind that nerfing armor hardeners also hurts ADSs 07 "There are no rights. The world owes no one a living."-Sumner *The Mascot of 0uter.Heaven * SWBF Trailer April
501st Headstrong 0uter.Heaven Back and Forth 935	Posted - 2015.04.13 10:41:00 - [4] - Quote Shamarskii Simon wrote: 501st Headstrong wrote: I'm not a tanker, but I'm confused as to why people believe 1 Aver should be able to pop a 1.3 mil Isk tank with hardeners on...Is that vehicle suppose to be a battle tank or a firecracker? I mean Dukey, I understand what you are saying about Shield Tankers. Gunlogis do need a buff...but your Heavy analogy makes little sense to me because a Sentinel suit does not cost 1.3 million isk. My isk invested should equal increase slaying capacity. This is why proto costs more than advanced. By that logic, fielding a 1 million isk asset should be able to at least clear out one proto Aver when hardened. You Shield Tankers work out how to Buff Gunnlogis, but do not Nerf the Madrugar. Make it to where both kick some serious arse, not give free 150 WPs. 07 Alright quick rephrase: "it's fine that aHardeners are back to 1.7 levels? Yes or no." "if you are fine with aHardeners going to 1.7, then campaign for sHardeners to go back to 1.7" But isn't that essentially undoing 1.8 with a twist on tanks eHP? "huh @.@" rephrasing the accusations against armor vehicles, not your post itself Hardeners should not go back to 1.7 levels, however I missed the first month of 1.7 due to internet issues. All I'm saying is the hardeners should be strong enough to be a primary defense vs AV in a proto tank. Isk assets should be worth their investment. So either slightly nerf armor hardeners, and then give DHAVS a bonus to them (True Stand and Deliver Tanks), or buff the shield hardeners to 35%. I don't have the numbers to accurately say. I agree, tanking should require "skill" as the people call it these days, but also keep in mind that a tank is a force multiplier. It is SUPPOSE to require multiple people to take down, thus allowing ground infantry to more easily deal with hostiles who aren't AV. I have no qualms with current tanks, as I prefer the fun of getting a squad of friends and just hunting them down with Lavs all day lol. I hate free give-mes, so sure, make the tanks tough. 07 "There are no rights. The world owes no one a living."-Sumner *The Mascot of 0uter.Heaven * SWBF Trailer April