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DeathwindRising wrote:

Gyn Wallace wrote:

I'm trying to imagine edge cases, ...

Let me flesh that out better, because Kaeru's idea is awesome. So imagine you've got a protosquad, team deployed to the attrition match. Their strategy is to revive their fallen, and keep their average respawns down to 4 or 5, so they can all run proto gear. The other side runs cheap suits and fails to hold the null cannons at all for the first half of the match. The cheap suits burn up the proto squad's isk pool as the cheap suit team's MCC goes to 1/4 armor. Proto-team is down to three players, and the remainder hold respawn, because they're about to (or have) run out of isk.

This is where my prior post's question comes into play. Does the match not end until the cheap suits have held the null cannons long enough to burn through the proto team's MCC shields and armor, or until they've tracked down and killed the last proto-team's cloaked scout?

That's potentially a very long time for a bunch of people to be waiting and unable to respawn. It begs for the ability to leave the match early without losing all rewards for having participated. If we can still join matches late and earn rewards for only partial participation, being able to leave attrition mode matches early, earning partial rewards, would be reasonable.

If that's not feasable, coming up with a faster way to end the match than my hypothetical would be beneficial for wait times, and getting people back into the pool of players available for the next game's queue.

or what if you "renew confidence" from your employer by completing a randomly selected objective ( get x amount of kills, hold objective for x amount of time, capture an objective, kill the highest ranking player on enemy team) and if you succeed, the you receive additional funding and your team continues the fight.

so basically the fiight goes on until the OPs conditions are met or the "employer" loses confidence in your team and cancel the contract.

this would create for some potenitally long and intense battles where a losing team can rally and make a comeback. to that end, i'd also suggest the ability to spend WPs to aid your team by healing you MCC. you can use WPs to repair MCC damage.

this means a player or squad can join a mtach late and turn the match around throught their additional efforts.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Gyn Wallace OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 286	Posted - 2015.03.10 23:14:00 - [31] - Quote Kaeru Nayiri wrote: When your team has enough gear on the field that could make them POTENTIALLY lose the match, that team enters OVERCOST. That team's ISK color changes to red. This is simply a warning that if all current assets are lost, it would be enough to lose the match. It does not prevent more gear from being called in, it is simply a warning. Using more gear simply pushes the team deeper into overcost. That completely addresses my concern/answers my question. The Dust/Eve Isk Exchange Thread
JARREL THOMAS Dead Man's Game RUST415 494	Posted - 2015.03.10 23:20:00 - [32] - Quote I like it, give this man a job! Caldari Loyalist Why should infrantry that don't own vehicles, that can't balance their own mechanics, balance vehicles
WeapondigitX V7 The Exemplars RISE of LEGION 258	Posted - 2015.03.11 03:58:00 - [33] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Gyn Wallace wrote: Gyn Wallace wrote: I'm trying to imagine edge cases, ... Let me flesh that out better, because Kaeru's idea is awesome. So imagine you've got a protosquad, team deployed to the attrition match. Their strategy is to revive their fallen, and keep their average respawns down to 4 or 5, so they can all run proto gear. The other side runs cheap suits and fails to hold the null cannons at all for the first half of the match. The cheap suits burn up the proto squad's isk pool as the cheap suit team's MCC goes to 1/4 armor. Proto-team is down to three players, and the remainder hold respawn, because they're about to (or have) run out of isk. This is where my prior post's question comes into play. Does the match not end until the cheap suits have held the null cannons long enough to burn through the proto team's MCC shields and armor, or until they've tracked down and killed the last proto-team's cloaked scout? That's potentially a very long time for a bunch of people to be waiting and unable to respawn. It begs for the ability to leave the match early without losing all rewards for having participated. If we can still join matches late and earn rewards for only partial participation, being able to leave attrition mode matches early, earning partial rewards, would be reasonable. If that's not feasable, coming up with a faster way to end the match than my hypothetical would be beneficial for wait times, and getting people back into the pool of players available for the next game's queue. or what if you "renew confidence" from your employer by completing a randomly selected objective ( get x amount of kills, hold objective for x amount of time, capture an objective, kill the highest ranking player on enemy team) and if you succeed, the you receive additional funding and your team continues the fight. so basically the fiight goes on until the OPs conditions are met or the "employer" loses confidence in your team and cancel the contract. this would create for some potenitally long and intense battles where a losing team can rally and make a comeback. to that end, i'd also suggest the ability to spend WPs to aid your team by healing you MCC. you can use WPs to repair MCC damage. this means a player or squad can join a mtach late and turn the match around throught their additional efforts. I very much like this attrition game mode idea for public contracts. I also like the ideas of sub missions within the game mode such as kill the highest ranking team member or hold an objective for x amount of time. Hope they are implemented. There has been ideas of PORTALS being used in DUST514 as well. Within that thread I have supported ideas of creating a safe zone for each team that interacts with 'ally entry only' portals at each side of the maps. You could implement some of those ideas and attach a isk value to each portal, allowing vehicles to destroy the enemy teams portals and make the enemy lose more isk (but not have special events such as destroying all enemy portals creates an automatic win). Each portal could perhaps be worth 8% of the enemies ISK budget with roughly 5 portals being owned by each team. This would help give vehicles another purpose on the battlefield to help incentivize the use of vehicles (to help balance out the disincentive created by vehicles costing a lot of ISK where dropsuits are cheaper and can potential perform any role a vehicle can). This would also help incentivize the use of forge guns and plasma cannons and mass drivers which might be underused weapons at the moment.
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 734	Posted - 2015.03.11 04:46:00 - [34] - Quote That's a pretty cool new idea. I don't know if it would work or could be done or how numbers would have to be tweaked -- but I'd be excited about playing it if it were added to the game. Bump plus like from me.
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 5247	Posted - 2015.03.11 09:45:00 - [35] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: pretty cool actually, maximizes skill and efficiency. This is like hardcore mode :) No one will play it. Usually banned for being too awesome.
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2562	Posted - 2015.03.11 10:06:00 - [36] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: I don't really see why you can' just say that when a BPO 'dies' it adds its equivalent MLT/STD cost the overall 'ISK Counter'. Yeah, that would have to be the case, or else BPOs would be quite literally P2W. Or we could do it with Meta Levels... Each team has 10000 Meta Level Points to use, or something. A full Proto suit would run the team 8-9x more points if it was lost compared to a Standard suit. Home at Last <3
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2562	Posted - 2015.03.11 10:07:00 - [37] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: pretty cool actually, maximizes skill and efficiency. This is like hardcore mode :) No Protoscrubs will play it. FTFY Home at Last <3
duster 35000 Algintal Core Gallente Federation 376	Posted - 2015.03.11 10:10:00 - [38] - Quote Kaeru Nayiri wrote: Accessible through Public Contracts: Attrition SETUP: Both teams have 150 clones and an MCC each. There are a variable number of null cannon installations (1~5). All current maps for skirmish and domination remain viable for this game mode. CONDITIONS FOR VICTORY: First side to lose 20 million isk LOSES THE MATCH. This includes: 1. The MCC itself (worth aprox. 75mil or more, guaranteed loss if MCC is destroyed) 2. Dropsuits 3. Vehicles CCP, please consider this and give it some thought. Thank you for reading. I forgot, what was attricion like in mag? Molestia approved
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 5249	Posted - 2015.03.11 10:14:00 - [39] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: pretty cool actually, maximizes skill and efficiency. This is like hardcore mode :) No Protoscrubs will play it. FTFY BPO's by proxy would have to be banned. That alone would make it the one mode that I WOULD want to play. But think about it. Advanced gear is a fraction of the cost of proto gear, and in many cases just as capable of killing proto. Running proto is, effectively, the fastest way to lose the match. If you ran tanks, which are pretty much filler all things considered, you lose it even faster. The mode would simply be broken. If you run proto, you lose. If you run advanced or lower (like most people do), the attrition never becomes a factor. So it would be a pointless game mode. Nobody could run anything good, and if they did, their team would immediately hate them. Just a bad game mode, period. I would be more interested in Skirmish being refined. Add alternate methods of damaging the MCC like we used to have in beta. Put in different null cannon types with different damage profiles. Maybe put in an optional objective that gives some kind of bonus akin to an anti-vehicle cruise missile strike on cooldown. There are cool things that can be done with skirmish. We don't need a new game mode to bring them out and further segregate the playerbase. Usually banned for being too awesome.
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2562	Posted - 2015.03.11 10:15:00 - [40] - Quote duster 35000 wrote: Kaeru Nayiri wrote: Accessible through Public Contracts: Attrition SETUP: Both teams have 150 clones and an MCC each. There are a variable number of null cannon installations (1~5). All current maps for skirmish and domination remain viable for this game mode. CONDITIONS FOR VICTORY: First side to lose 20 million isk LOSES THE MATCH. This includes: 1. The MCC itself (worth aprox. 75mil or more, guaranteed loss if MCC is destroyed) 2. Dropsuits 3. Vehicles CCP, please consider this and give it some thought. Thank you for reading. I forgot, what was attricion like in mag? There wasn't an attrition game mode in mag. Maybe you are thinking of Interdiction, which was pretty much the Skirmish we have in Dust? Or maybe Acquisition, which was capture the flag with an attzcking and defending team, and the flay was a MAV. But the closest to what he described is Suppression, which is basically TDM with 32v32. Home at Last <3

Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2562	Posted - 2015.03.11 10:21:00 - [41] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: pretty cool actually, maximizes skill and efficiency. This is like hardcore mode :) No Protoscrubs will play it. FTFY BPO's by proxy would have to be banned. That alone would make it the one mode that I WOULD want to play. But think about it. Advanced gear is a fraction of the cost of proto gear, and in many cases just as capable of killing proto. Running proto is, effectively, the fastest way to lose the match. If you ran tanks, which are pretty much filler all things considered, you lose it even faster. The mode would simply be broken. If you run proto, you lose. If you run advanced or lower (like most people do), the attrition never becomes a factor. So it would be a pointless game mode. Nobody could run anything good, and if they did, their team would immediately hate them. Just a bad game mode, period. I don't know. I'd love it, since it would place ISK efficiency above K/D, and it would provide a more level playing field and there for be a more accurate test of skill, since it would disincentivize Proto gear to the point that pretty much nobody would use it... And like others said, BPOs could just be worth their ISK price in this situation, which is something I'm fairly certain is already done when calculating payouts for each team... I'd play the **** out of it. It sounds like "Better Ambush" to me... Home at Last <3
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 5249	Posted - 2015.03.11 10:25:00 - [42] - Quote Keeping tally of Isk destruction doesn't have to be a game mode. It should simply be an in-your-face stat that belongs to every game mode. Again, it would be a pointless game mode. You wouldn't be allowed to use anything good without incurring the wrath of your team. If you ran proto, you would be hated. If you didn't run proto, you would constantly be blaming the people who did. It would be a poor, negative experience every time you went into a match. Usually banned for being too awesome.
Mejt0 Dead Man's Game RUST415 1001	Posted - 2015.03.11 13:09:00 - [43] - Quote It would still be the same gamemode : skirmish, just with changed rules. Why not make FFA mode? Or Vehicle only mode, where : two teams have to destroy each other // team A has to destroy X to win, while team B has to defend X to win. X - {instalations, neutral objects, etc.} Caldari Hero Loyal To The State Mejt0 Sale List
Gyn Wallace Ready to Play 290	Posted - 2015.03.11 13:45:00 - [44] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: I don't know. I'd love it, since it would place ISK efficiency above K/D, and it would provide a more level playing field and there for be a more accurate test of skill, since it would [discourage] Proto gear to the point that pretty much nobody would use it.. Unless the limit were under 8M for each 16 man side, I suspect you'd see organized teams running a pattern of suits, including protosuits for first spawns, with very cheap back up suits. Another one of the consequences, would be organized limiting of the number of logis, since their equipment costs are disproportionately expensive. You'd almost never see a que-synced pair of squads with more than four needles, whereas now you're likely to see as many needles as logis. Hives would be spent less haphazardly. This game mode is in part a better solution to equipment spam than bandwidth. One of the beauties of this mode would be if hacked vehicles subtracted isk from the team that lost them and added to the team that hacked them.. (Although its more likely that CCP would handle this like FW, blowing up a vehicle after the enemy hacks it, would probably subtract from the enemy's isk limit.) Expect LAVs with remotes to be mysteriously undefended. The Dust/Eve Isk Exchange Thread
Moorian Flav 317	Posted - 2015.03.11 14:52:00 - [45] - Quote This would of been cool last year or any time before that but most battles are over in the first 5 minutes any more. In FW, battles are often times over in the warbarge by most deciding to leave or sit in the MCC by looking at the enemy player list. If any thing, we need either shorter game modes or smaller battle sizes to compensate for this horrible trend. There could be other solutions but I doubt anything else would make such players actually fight as most only want to fight if facing little opposition. I don't troll; I tell the truth. I'm also known as "The ANTI-Propaganda Machine".
Ku Shala UNITED MERCINARY AND PILOTS ALLIANCE 1299	Posted - 2015.03.11 16:13:00 - [46] - Quote sounds cool , does it need a clone count? maybe a vehicle mode with a higher isk cap. *-¦a+ó a+ú-Æa+äla+ä (CK-0 Specialist)* Caldari Loyalist Superior technology will privale.
Kaeru Nayiri Ready to Play 600	Posted - 2015.03.11 16:38:00 - [47] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: [...] If you ran proto, you would be hated. [...] lol Know what cannot be known.
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 735	Posted - 2015.03.12 01:09:00 - [48] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Keeping tally of Isk destruction doesn't have to be a game mode. It should simply be an in-your-face stat that belongs to every game mode. Again, it would be a pointless game mode. You wouldn't be allowed to use anything good without incurring the wrath of your team. If you ran proto, you would be hated. If you didn't run proto, you would constantly be blaming the people who did. It would be a poor, negative experience every time you went into a match. Unless you ran proto and killed more than you lost with it. Then it would be cool. Instead of Kills/Deaths at the end we would have Isk Destroyed/Isk Lost. It's the EXACT same thing as KDR, which is what Ambush boils down to, only deeper, more complex and nuanced. Arguing AGAINST complexity, depth, and nuance in New Eden is akin to suicide in public areas. Don't be a statistic.
WeapondigitX V7 The Exemplars RISE of LEGION 261	Posted - 2015.03.12 04:39:00 - [49] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Keeping tally of Isk destruction doesn't have to be a game mode. It should simply be an in-your-face stat that belongs to every game mode. Again, it would be a pointless game mode. You wouldn't be allowed to use anything good without incurring the wrath of your team. If you ran proto, you would be hated. If you didn't run proto, you would constantly be blaming the people who did. It would be a poor, negative experience every time you went into a match. You are assuming that every player in the match would value different tactics of winning compared to you that is playing the match. They would not be unified completely, some would agree with you and some would disagree. You could also apply your argument to skirmish and ambush in a different way to make the point that the game mode idea 'attrition' can not be worse that our current game modes in terms of player attitudes. Here is the application of the argument to skirmish and ambush: 'I hate those proto stompers on the opposite team, they ruin my game experience, they have infinite isk, it makes it harder for me to feel my efforts are worth it, it makes the game feel like a losing battle.' That is how some players feel about our current game modes. That is probably to most negative attitude you will find. I doubt that is more negative than the attitude some players would have towards proto gear players in the 'attrition' game mode. I have tried to make the attrition game mode idea look like it is just as bad a idea as our current game modes. As a result It makes it hard to argue why we should not create the game mode 'attrition' because it is easier to believe that 'attrition' would not make the DUST514 experience any worse. It could only make DUST514 much better or just as bad/good as the game currently is. The is no losing scenario if you see our current game modes as good game modes.
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1843	Posted - 2015.03.12 10:33:00 - [50] - Quote Agreed, a very cool mode indeed. That would require players to fit an entirely new line of dropsuit fittings for that which is also nice (if they have room for new ones) Looking at both sides of the coin. Even Aurum one.

Jathniel Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 1497	Posted - 2015.03.12 17:54:00 - [51] - Quote I'm President Luvthis Idea. And I approve this message. Retired
Kaeru Nayiri Ready to Play 881	Posted - 2015.04.01 20:01:00 - [52] - Quote @Rattati, Hoping that this idea won't have too many obstacles to overcome ! Know what cannot be known.
emm kay Direct Action Resources 294	Posted - 2015.04.01 20:10:00 - [53] - Quote Pagl1u M wrote: What about apex suits and bpos? APEX -> aurum components -> ISK variants. APEX suit -> racial variants -> ISK variant. There is a reason you never see me in battle. it's because I see you first.
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 975	Posted - 2015.04.01 23:28:00 - [54] - Quote Kaeru Nayiri wrote: Accessible through Public Contracts: Attrition SETUP: Both teams have 150 clones and an MCC each. There are a variable number of null cannon installations (1~5). All current maps for skirmish and domination remain viable for this game mode. CONDITIONS FOR VICTORY: First side to lose 20 million isk LOSES THE MATCH. This includes: 1. The MCC itself (worth aprox. 75mil or more, guaranteed loss if MCC is destroyed) 2. Dropsuits 3. Vehicles CCP, please consider this and give it some thought. Thank you for reading. I'd like it as just an extra feature in battles, along with MCC/Clone war. Pretty sure something like this was mentioned before once. Puts staying alive higher on the list and gives people a reason not to spam expensive gear.
DR DEESE NUTS 28	Posted - 2015.04.02 03:20:00 - [55] - Quote Maybe have a 6v6 version of it also? The USS m`dick
Cyzad4 Blackfish Corp. 721	Posted - 2015.04.02 17:40:00 - [56] - Quote +1 Where do I sign up? also would this be particularly complex to code? I have no idea... Ratt?... Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair.
Kierkegaard Soren Corrosive Synergy Rise Of Legion. 736	Posted - 2015.04.02 21:02:00 - [57] - Quote This is an awesome idea that adds a whole new dimension to a match. ISK is both a resource and a weapon within the wider EVE universe, might as well be the same in Dust. Clever players vs Proto warriors? Yes please. Dedicated Commando. "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing."
Kaeru Nayiri Ready to Play 901	Posted - 2015.04.03 21:15:00 - [58] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: Kaeru Nayiri wrote: Accessible through Public Contracts: Attrition SETUP: Both teams have 150 clones and an MCC each. There are a variable number of null cannon installations (1~5). All current maps for skirmish and domination remain viable for this game mode. CONDITIONS FOR VICTORY: First side to lose 20 million isk LOSES THE MATCH. This includes: 1. The MCC itself (worth aprox. 75mil or more, guaranteed loss if MCC is destroyed) 2. Dropsuits 3. Vehicles CCP, please consider this and give it some thought. Thank you for reading. I'd like it as just an extra feature in battles, along with MCC/Clone war. Pretty sure something like this was mentioned before once. Puts staying alive higher on the list and gives people a reason not to spam expensive gear. I'm actually hoping that IF this gets implemented and IF it becomes popular, it can be added to all game modes. I think starting out as it's own thing is prudent though. Know what cannot be known.
Godin Thekiller Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 3018	Posted - 2015.04.03 22:34:00 - [59] - Quote I don't see the point in this, unless the gear we use doesn't cost anything. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Kaeru Nayiri Ready to Play 1045	Posted - 2015.04.28 20:00:00 - [60] - Quote Any hope for this in a distant future release :D ? Know what cannot be known.



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