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Gyn Wallace wrote:

I'm trying to imagine edge cases, ...

Let me flesh that out better, because Kaeru's idea is awesome. So imagine you've got a protosquad, team deployed to the attrition match. Their strategy is to revive their fallen, and keep their average respawns down to 4 or 5, so they can all run proto gear. The other side runs cheap suits and fails to hold the null cannons at all for the first half of the match. The cheap suits burn up the proto squad's isk pool as the cheap suit team's MCC goes to 1/4 armor. Proto-team is down to three players, and the remainder hold respawn, because they're about to (or have) run out of isk.

This is where my prior post's question comes into play. Does the match not end until the cheap suits have held the null cannons long enough to burn through the proto team's MCC shields and armor, or until they've tracked down and killed the last proto-team's cloaked scout?

That's potentially a very long time for a bunch of people to be waiting and unable to respawn. It begs for the ability to leave the match early without losing all rewards for having participated. If we can still join matches late and earn rewards for only partial participation, being able to leave attrition mode matches early, earning partial rewards, would be reasonable.

If that's not feasable, coming up with a faster way to end the match than my hypothetical would be beneficial for wait times, and getting people back into the pool of players available for the next game's queue.

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Kaeru Nayiri Ready to Play 576	Posted - 2015.03.09 22:36:00 - [1] - Quote Accessible through Public Contracts: Attrition SETUP: Both teams have 150 clones and an MCC each. There are a variable number of null cannon installations (1~5). All current maps for skirmish and domination remain viable for this game mode. CONDITIONS FOR VICTORY: First side to lose 20 million isk LOSES THE MATCH. This includes: 1. The MCC itself (worth aprox. 75mil, guaranteed loss if MCC is destroyed) 2. Dropsuits 3. Vehicles CCP, please consider this and give it some thought. Thank you for reading. Know what cannot be known.
PLAYSTTION Corrosive Synergy RISE of LEGION 649	Posted - 2015.03.10 00:06:00 - [2] - Quote So, skirmish with a different type of clone count? I may not entirely understand this so it seems a little unnecessary, but like i said i don't understand it. I would like this with just the isk loss thing though, and maybe the more null cannons you have you generate x amount of isk to increase the amount of isk you can lose? Then lets say you have an objective and your max is now 30mil, your at 25mil. They enemy hacks the objective and you go back down to 20 mil and lose? Gassault Calogi and more. Respec Pending. `- Open Beta Vet - 38 mil sp - - Director of Corrosive Synergy -`
Gyn Wallace OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 281	Posted - 2015.03.10 00:12:00 - [3] - Quote Kaeru Nayiri wrote: Accessible through Public Contracts: Attrition CONDITIONS FOR VICTORY: First side to lose 20 million isk LOSES THE MATCH. .. Nice, so isk efficient players who slay with their basic and advanced suits might win the game against protostompers, even if they lost a few more clones in the process. I like it. My only question is: How are BPOs valued toward the victory condition? The same way as for match rewards or differently? The Dust/Eve Isk Exchange Thread
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5277	Posted - 2015.03.10 00:14:00 - [4] - Quote Gyn Wallace wrote: Kaeru Nayiri wrote: Accessible through Public Contracts: Attrition CONDITIONS FOR VICTORY: First side to lose 20 million isk LOSES THE MATCH. .. Nice, so isk efficient players who slay with their basic and advanced suits might win the game against protostompers, even if they lost a few more clones in the process. I like it. My only question is: How are BPOs valued toward the victory condition? The same way as for match rewards or differently? I imagine you would just have to go with the ISK value of the BPO and pretend that it was actually expended? "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 1676	Posted - 2015.03.10 05:38:00 - [5] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Gyn Wallace wrote: Kaeru Nayiri wrote: Accessible through Public Contracts: Attrition CONDITIONS FOR VICTORY: First side to lose 20 million isk LOSES THE MATCH. .. Nice, so isk efficient players who slay with their basic and advanced suits might win the game against protostompers, even if they lost a few more clones in the process. I like it. My only question is: How are BPOs valued toward the victory condition? The same way as for match rewards or differently? I imagine you would just have to go with the ISK value of the BPO and pretend that it was actually expended? Kinda like how its supposed to behave now? BigBurns is exiled,and so with that, the forum's jimmies will no longer be rustled.
Starlight Burner ROGUE RELICS 159	Posted - 2015.03.10 05:47:00 - [6] - Quote I like this idea. x Starlight Burner Thank god for CCP Rattati!! Rogue Relics is my home away from home.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 18291	Posted - 2015.03.10 07:12:00 - [7] - Quote pretty cool actually, maximizes skill and efficiency. This is like hardcore mode :) "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Pagl1u M Dead Man's Game 1738	Posted - 2015.03.10 07:22:00 - [8] - Quote What about apex suits and bpos? I d say a suit should have a minimum cost for this mode, or that you shouldnt be allowed to play with a suit that costs less than x. Why? Say for example that the average cost of suits used by a team in this mode is 10k isk. 20kk/10k=2000 kills. This is way too much kills needed, the match would be too long, like 2 hours and more. So in these cases the only way to win would be to destroy enemy MCC, this brings us back to a normal skirmish. In my opinion if you want to add this mode you should Limit it to PRO, ADV and officer (apex not allowed.) One of the few assaults you'll find in a PC match!
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5286	Posted - 2015.03.10 07:43:00 - [9] - Quote I don't really see why you can' just say that when a BPO 'dies' it adds its equivalent MLT/STD cost the overall 'ISK Counter'. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 913	Posted - 2015.03.10 10:15:00 - [10] - Quote Pagl1u M wrote: What about apex suits and bpos? I d say a suit should have a minimum cost for this mode, or that you shouldnt be allowed to play with a suit that costs less than x. Why? Say for example that the average cost of suits used by a team in this mode is 10k isk. 20kk/10k=2000 kills. This is way too much kills needed, the match would be too long, like 2 hours and more. So in these cases the only way to win would be to destroy enemy MCC, this brings us back to a normal skirmish. In my opinion if you want to add this mode you should Limit it to PRO, ADV and officer (apex not allowed.) Run cheaper more effecient STD suits should be an option. End of the day, odds are this kind of match will primarily lead to the MCC going down before x amount of isk is lost. Running expensive suits wont cost too much, but losing those suits will hurt the team as well as your wallet. If you think of it as Mercs pulling a ,job for an employer, the employer has only a finite amount of funds he/she is willing to put to the Mercs use before its costs too much to continue, and the contract is terminated. Doesn't stop me from bringin out a tank, but man, losing that thing will cost the team dearly enough that I can't go on a bring out two or three. The players who are the most isk and result effcicient, win. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.

DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 919	Posted - 2015.03.10 11:20:00 - [11] - Quote i love this idea +1
Archduke Ferd1nand Nos Nothi 163	Posted - 2015.03.10 13:25:00 - [12] - Quote YES ADD THIS NAOW BRB, looking for socks Asslut Rifles OP, anal now I shit shotgun shells and piss Remote Explosives
Gyn Wallace OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 283	Posted - 2015.03.10 14:23:00 - [13] - Quote Kaeru Nayiri wrote: ... CONDITIONS FOR VICTORY: First side to lose 20 million isk LOSES THE MATCH. This includes: ... 2. Dropsuits 3. Vehicles Thinking about this more, what do the last moments of the match look like when loss of dropsuits and vehicles ends the match? Is it the last guy to spawn in with a suit over the limit that triggers the victory condition (like getting cloned) or does the match continue, with no more men and material available to that side, giving the other side an advantage towards taking the null cannons? If the latter, I'm trying to imagine edge cases, where both teams nearly "isk out" and you're left with the remaining few survivors on each team running around trying to kill each other for a total annihilation of the enemy's available clones, or hack the null cannons, until.. MCC distruction or one side is completely eliminated? This is potentially a long time for the downed, unable to respawn people to wait for the match to end. Should they be unable to respawn, have to wait, be able to exit to the end of match screen earlier than the current system, or be able to respawn in free suits? The Dust/Eve Isk Exchange Thread
Gyn Wallace OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 283	Posted - 2015.03.10 14:36:00 - [14] - Quote Gyn Wallace wrote: I'm trying to imagine edge cases, ... Let me flesh that out better, because Kaeru's idea is awesome. So imagine you've got a protosquad, team deployed to the attrition match. Their strategy is to revive their fallen, and keep their average respawns down to 4 or 5, so they can all run proto gear. The other side runs cheap suits and fails to hold the null cannons at all for the first half of the match. The cheap suits burn up the proto squad's isk pool as the cheap suit team's MCC goes to 1/4 armor. This is where my prior post's question comes into play. Does the match not end until the cheap suits have held the null cannons long enough to burn through the proto team's MCC shields and armor, or until they've tracked down and killed the last proto-team's cloaked scout? That's potentially a very long time for a bunch of people to be waiting and unable to respawn. It begs for the ability to leave the match early without losing all rewards for having participated. If we can still join matches late and earn rewards for only partial participation, being able to leave attrition mode matches early, earning partial rewards, would be reasonable. If that's not feasable, coming up with a faster way to end the match than my hypothetical would be beneficial for wait times, and getting people back into the pool of players available for the next game's queue. The Dust/Eve Isk Exchange Thread
Corbina Ninja ItalPetrolCemeTermoTessilFarmaMetalChimica 1243	Posted - 2015.03.10 14:46:00 - [15] - Quote New Game Mode skirmish with isk limit? is not a NEW game mode :/ CTF Rush (battlefield's Rush) survival (all against all) are "new" «Questa è l'Italia del futuro: un paese di musichette mentre fuori c'è la morte.»
Lorhak Gannarsein Nos Nothi 4422	Posted - 2015.03.10 16:15:00 - [16] - Quote You'd need to change some of the parameters; to burn out 20M in 150 deaths would take some reasonably expensive gear; certainly pricier than most of what I see in matches. 10M seems like a more sensible number, possibly lower. Cool idea, though. Guys, we need to stop calling MU a 'matchmaker' when it's actually a 'teambuilder'. And I want to play FE:A now. Damn.
Kaeru Nayiri Ready to Play 590	Posted - 2015.03.10 17:48:00 - [17] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Gyn Wallace wrote: Nice, so isk efficient players who slay with their basic and advanced suits might win the game against protostompers, even if they lost a few more clones in the process. I like it. My only question is: How are BPOs valued toward the victory condition? The same way as for match rewards or differently? I imagine you would just have to go with the ISK value of the BPO and pretend that it was actually expended? Exactly, every item, even BPO, ALREADY has a built in ISK value. That value is deducted from your team's total. Gyn Wallace wrote: Thinking about this more, what do the last moments of the match look like when loss of dropsuits and vehicles ends the match? Is it the last guy to spawn in with a suit over the limit that triggers the victory condition (like getting cloned) or does the match continue, with no more men and material available to that side, giving the other side an advantage towards taking the null cannons? If the latter, I'm trying to imagine edge cases, where both teams nearly "isk out" and you're left with the remaining few survivors on each team running around trying to kill each other for a total annihilation of the enemy's available clones, or hack the null cannons, until.. MCC distruction or one side is completely eliminated? This is potentially a long time for the downed, unable to respawn people to wait for the match to end. Should they be unable to respawn, have to wait, be able to exit to the end of match screen earlier than the current system, or be able to respawn in free suits? No, Look at it differently: When you spawn in something or call in a vehicle that your team cannot afford, you go into OVERCOST Overcost does not change anything because the assets need to be destroyed in order to trigger victory conditions for the other team. You team can continue to spawn in and call in more assets and go deeper into overcost mode. We do not want 2 or 3 people left on the field running around while everyone waits. A creative game designer/developper might come up with interesting game mechanics for overcast mode, however. :3 Know what cannot be known.
Kaeru Nayiri Ready to Play 590	Posted - 2015.03.10 17:52:00 - [18] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: You'd need to change some of the parameters; to burn out 20M in 150 deaths would take some reasonably expensive gear; certainly pricier than most of what I see in matches. 10M seems like a more sensible number, possibly lower. Cool idea, though. the 20m is an arbitrary number. Ideally I envision different NPC corps with different budgets and variable isk amounts available on either side. Obviously out of scope, though. Still the point is that it doesnt have to be 20m, it can be 15, it can be 10. Just know that a single player can VERY EASILY lose 500k in a match with proto equipment. Think of logis and vehicle users. It's totall OK if their are people spawning in BPOs that are worth 10k for the system. Remember even BPOs have an isk value per unit attributed to them in game. I would also like to add that the clone counts can be removed entirely if only to simplify the number of conditions for victory. I didn't suggest it at first in order to keep it simple. It's up for debate. Know what cannot be known.
TheSneakyDolphin DROPSHIP ONE OPERATIONS 14	Posted - 2015.03.10 17:59:00 - [19] - Quote I don't know about this. Will the ISK cost be tracked in the HUD? I can see the game mode getting very boring. Everyone will rush the points to get a lead then hide/snipe in the red line so they don't lose the ISK while 2 or 3 cloaked scouts run around try to hold/hack the points with remotes & shotguns. Then there will be a blue dots spawning vehicles helping lose the game. Maybe a blue dot's HAV taking out another blue dot's HAV by accident in the spawn already costing the team 500,000 ISK in the first 30 seconds of the game. Maybe a PC game mode but for public match. It could get messy. It's almost like an ambush were a blue dot is fighting against his/her corp members, spawns in a free suit and kill his or her self over and over so the other team has a better chance of winning but amplified because of the ISK. ISK winning will also be limited because of the ISK put into the game. SQUEAK! SQUEAK!
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 9807	Posted - 2015.03.10 18:03:00 - [20] - Quote Kaeru Nayiri wrote: Accessible through Public Contracts: Attrition SETUP: Both teams have 150 clones and an MCC each. There are a variable number of null cannon installations (1~5). All current maps for skirmish and domination remain viable for this game mode. CONDITIONS FOR VICTORY: First side to lose 20 million isk LOSES THE MATCH. This includes: 1. The MCC itself (worth aprox. 75mil or more, guaranteed loss if MCC is destroyed) 2. Dropsuits 3. Vehicles CCP, please consider this and give it some thought. Thank you for reading. The MCC is worth about 200 million judging from a past DUST Trailer. I'd welcome this wholeheartedly. It may put more emphasis on team play instead of just relying on gun game without brains to win a match. *As long as 4/5 (80%) of infantry AV weapons are Anti Armor based you're never going to achieve vehicle balance CCP*

DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 924	Posted - 2015.03.10 18:12:00 - [21] - Quote Gyn Wallace wrote: Gyn Wallace wrote: I'm trying to imagine edge cases, ... Let me flesh that out better, because Kaeru's idea is awesome. So imagine you've got a protosquad, team deployed to the attrition match. Their strategy is to revive their fallen, and keep their average respawns down to 4 or 5, so they can all run proto gear. The other side runs cheap suits and fails to hold the null cannons at all for the first half of the match. The cheap suits burn up the proto squad's isk pool as the cheap suit team's MCC goes to 1/4 armor. Proto-team is down to three players, and the remainder hold respawn, because they're about to (or have) run out of isk. This is where my prior post's question comes into play. Does the match not end until the cheap suits have held the null cannons long enough to burn through the proto team's MCC shields and armor, or until they've tracked down and killed the last proto-team's cloaked scout? That's potentially a very long time for a bunch of people to be waiting and unable to respawn. It begs for the ability to leave the match early without losing all rewards for having participated. If we can still join matches late and earn rewards for only partial participation, being able to leave attrition mode matches early, earning partial rewards, would be reasonable. If that's not feasable, coming up with a faster way to end the match than my hypothetical would be beneficial for wait times, and getting people back into the pool of players available for the next game's queue. or what if you "renew confidence" from your employer by completing a randomly selected objective ( get x amount of kills, hold objective for x amount of time, capture an objective, kill the highest ranking player on enemy team) and if you succeed, the you receive additional funding and your team continues the fight. so basically the fiight goes on until the OPs conditions are met or the "employer" loses confidence in your team and cancel the contract. this would create for some potenitally long and intense battles where a losing team can rally and make a comeback. to that end, i'd also suggest the ability to spend WPs to aid your team by healing you MCC. you can use WPs to repair MCC damage. this means a player or squad can join a mtach late and turn the match around throught their additional efforts.
Pseudogenesis Nos Nothi 2081	Posted - 2015.03.10 18:19:00 - [22] - Quote People would grief the hell out of this mode, I guarantee it. Stabby-stabber extraordinaire Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉn¦ñ I stabbed Rattati once, you know.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 924	Posted - 2015.03.10 18:21:00 - [23] - Quote TheSneakyDolphin wrote: I don't know about this. Will the ISK cost be tracked in the HUD? I can see the game mode getting very boring. Everyone will rush the points to get a lead then hide/snipe in the red line so they don't lose the ISK while 2 or 3 cloaked scouts run around try to hold/hack the points with remotes & shotguns. Then there will be a blue dots spawning vehicles helping lose the game. Maybe a blue dot's HAV taking out another blue dot's HAV by accident in the spawn already costing the team 500,000 ISK in the first 30 seconds of the game. Maybe a PC game mode but for public match. It could get messy. It's almost like an ambush were a blue dot is fighting against his/her corp members, spawns in a free suit and kill his or her self over and over so the other team has a better chance of winning but amplified because of the ISK. ISK winning will also be limited because of the ISK put into the game. NOT if the payouts are adjusted like discussed else where on the forums. there's been talk of payouts equaling what the enemy team loses in terms of isk value and increased salvage drops, similar to FW or PC
Kaeru Nayiri Ready to Play 590	Posted - 2015.03.10 18:27:00 - [24] - Quote I really wouldn't worry too much about griefing in this game mode. People will have to lose substantial amounts of isk in order to accomplish this which results in only one thing: The match ends sooner than it should have. It sucks if people were actually trying to win, however it doesn't directly irritate anyone or steal anything from anyone other than the "employer". Trying to make the team lose with BPO gear would be mind numbingly slow. It would be faster to run the 150 clone count up with suicides, which is already possible in every game mode currently available. Know what cannot be known.
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 3195	Posted - 2015.03.10 19:16:00 - [25] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: pretty cool actually, maximizes skill and efficiency. This is like hardcore mode :) Rattati, do you guys have the ability to see / show us how much isk has been destroyed at the end of a battle? I think that would be an awesome stat to see in the end of match screen, even more so if the figure is given per team! Vitantur Nothus wrote: Why hide a solution under frothy pile of derpa? MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
Kaeru Nayiri Ready to Play 590	Posted - 2015.03.10 20:13:00 - [26] - Quote Both teams have an ISK counter displayed in the same light blue as the rest of the HUD. This ISK counter displays the amount of isk left for both teams. The ISK counter is only affected by assets destroyed. Similar to a clone that needs to be permanently bled out in Ambush in order to count, simply spawning in a suit does not affect the counter. Losing that suit or vehicle however subtracts the value of what was lost from your team's ISK pool. When your team has enough gear on the field that could make them POTENTIALLY lose the match, that team enters OVERCOST. That team's ISK color changes to red. This is simply a warning that if all current assets are lost, it would be enough to lose the match. It does not prevent more gear from being called in, it is simply a warning. Using more gear simply pushes the team deeper into overcost. Payouts could depend on overcost. Winning without even reaching overcost earns bonus pay. Perhaps driving enemy overcost could also earn a certain bonus. Clever game designers might come up with interesting mechanics for overcost, it could make a nice discussion. Important thing is that it does not affect a player's ability to continue to battle. Know what cannot be known.
Balistyc Farshot The Exemplars RISE of LEGION 90	Posted - 2015.03.10 20:24:00 - [27] - Quote Brilliant! +1 for this. I would just want to make sure that the isk counter is displayed, and at the end, WP is actually isk spent to isk taken. Heavy with a massive bullet hose called Lola (Burst HMG).
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4073	Posted - 2015.03.10 21:16:00 - [28] - Quote Late to the party here but I like the idea +1 See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 1699	Posted - 2015.03.10 21:20:00 - [29] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Late to the party here but I like the idea +1 You live! Knows more, cares less, and doesn't sleep as much as he should.
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4073	Posted - 2015.03.10 21:29:00 - [30] - Quote Soldner VonKuechle wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Late to the party here but I like the idea +1 You live! I do! (sorry Rue for the off topic post, I'll buy you a DS in compensation ) Work has been keeping me on call lately so I've had hardly any free time and it's been broken up into tiny bits not suitable for most things. CPM meetings and thread reading have both continued, as has some Dust playtime but my interactive presence has been sadly diminished by this state of affairs I am hoping things settle down a bit for me post fan fest and I can be more present once again. However, whether or not that happens I can still be reached via e-mail and invite anyone who has a link, an idea, or a concern to contact me there Cheers, Cross See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)



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