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[Request] Reduce rail turret and forge efficiency against infantry.

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True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 17465	Posted - 2015.03.04 23:38:00 - [31] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: True Adamance wrote: KA24DERT wrote: True Adamance wrote: Uh how do you propose to explain why a tank turret did less damage to your clone? Moreover why does a KE rounds like a Rail Rifle slug do full damage against and infantry man but a significantly larger calibre slug like an 80gj Railgun rounds not kill you outright. I can explain it like this: because it's an unbalanced and frustrating mechanic. But if you need someone to heisenberg-compensate this away, you can say that the rail slugs are are energized with plasma that is specifically tailored to delaminate metallic armor, and is thrown off the large biological composition of dropsuits. Also nanites. Why bother with a specific kind of technology that deliberately limits your weapons destructive potential when existing examples are present that do not require this kind of modification? Because video game rules can be arbitrary but should submit to FUN. Also nanites. Fun for you but not me or any vehicle pilots who already are relying on either luck due to dispersion or accuracy which you want to punish them for having by removing their killing power. How do you justify compromising my enjoyment of a specific role that functions similarly throughout the entire gaming genre. Aka- I shoot you with a tank round you die. (( I've seen his other threads. I have me my pile of salt right here)) "This is the Usumgal boy, the exalted dragon, wreathed in the fires of heaven. He is a true symbol of God's majesty."
XxBlazikenxX Y.A.M.A.H 423	Posted - 2015.03.04 23:39:00 - [32] - Quote True Adamance wrote: KA24DERT wrote: True Adamance wrote: KA24DERT wrote: True Adamance wrote: Uh how do you propose to explain why a tank turret did less damage to your clone? Moreover why does a KE rounds like a Rail Rifle slug do full damage against and infantry man but a significantly larger calibre slug like an 80gj Railgun rounds not kill you outright. I can explain it like this: because it's an unbalanced and frustrating mechanic. But if you need someone to heisenberg-compensate this away, you can say that the rail slugs are are energized with plasma that is specifically tailored to delaminate metallic armor, and is thrown off the large biological composition of dropsuits. Also nanites. Why bother with a specific kind of technology that deliberately limits your weapons destructive potential when existing examples are present that do not require this kind of modification? Because video game rules can be arbitrary but should submit to FUN. Also nanites. Fun for you but not me or any vehicle pilots who already are relying on either luck due to dispersion or accuracy which you want to punish them for having by removing their killing power. How do you justify compromising my enjoyment of a specific role that functions similarly throughout the entire gaming genre. Aka- I shoot you with a tank round you die. I really don't think you should take the OP seriously. You know this is the guy who wanted to remove strafing from the game.... Terrestrial Combat Officer of Y.A.M.A.H Recruitment, Free BPOs!
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 17469	Posted - 2015.03.04 23:52:00 - [33] - Quote XxBlazikenxX wrote: I really don't think you should take the OP seriously. You know this is the guy who wanted to remove strafing from the game.... As I said..... I have my grain... or bag of salt. What is a pain is not the OP but the idiots who'll inevitably latch on to the idea as if it were actually worth the time of day. "This is the Usumgal boy, the exalted dragon, wreathed in the fires of heaven. He is a true symbol of God's majesty."
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 720	Posted - 2015.03.04 23:53:00 - [34] - Quote I really didn't want to post. I'm annoyed at all the people who responded basically forcing me to post. If you haven't read the OP's posts, go read some of them. See what kind of thinking you are working with. And stop responding to his threads so they just fall off and disappear from the forums. Watching this **** get bumped flabbergasts me. Needing to bump this to post this so it can stop does as well. Seriously folks. Just let it go and it'll go away.
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 1089	Posted - 2015.03.05 00:02:00 - [35] - Quote Imp Smash wrote: I really didn't want to post. I'm annoyed at all the people who responded basically forcing me to post. If you haven't read the OP's posts, go read some of them. See what kind of thinking you are working with. And stop responding to his threads so they just fall off and disappear from the forums. Watching this **** get bumped flabbergasts me. Needing to bump this to post this so it can stop does as well. Seriously folks. Just let it go and it'll go away. Troll threads go in General Discussion. Threads where I get shouted down by people comfortable with broken mechanics go in Feedback. BAN ADVANCED GEAR FROM PUBS \| Mass Driver Advocate
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 1089	Posted - 2015.03.05 00:04:00 - [36] - Quote True Adamance wrote: KA24DERT wrote: True Adamance wrote: KA24DERT wrote: True Adamance wrote: Uh how do you propose to explain why a tank turret did less damage to your clone? Moreover why does a KE rounds like a Rail Rifle slug do full damage against and infantry man but a significantly larger calibre slug like an 80gj Railgun rounds not kill you outright. I can explain it like this: because it's an unbalanced and frustrating mechanic. But if you need someone to heisenberg-compensate this away, you can say that the rail slugs are are energized with plasma that is specifically tailored to delaminate metallic armor, and is thrown off the large biological composition of dropsuits. Also nanites. Why bother with a specific kind of technology that deliberately limits your weapons destructive potential when existing examples are present that do not require this kind of modification? Because video game rules can be arbitrary but should submit to FUN. Also nanites. Fun for you but not me or any vehicle pilots who already are relying on either luck due to dispersion or accuracy which you want to punish them for having by removing their killing power. How do you justify compromising my enjoyment of a specific role that functions similarly throughout the entire gaming genre. Aka- I shoot you with a tank round you die. (( I've seen his other threads. I have me my pile of salt right here)) I justify it by telling you to get into a tank with a Blaster or Missile turret. BAN ADVANCED GEAR FROM PUBS \| Mass Driver Advocate
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 17472	Posted - 2015.03.05 00:45:00 - [37] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: I justify it by telling you to get into a tank with a Blaster or Missile turret. The Blaster and Missile Launcher aren't even tank turrets. Just a **** poor attempt at a .50 Calibre Machine Gun and a pair dumb fire....what I suppose should be surface to air missiles. "This is the Usumgal boy, the exalted dragon, wreathed in the fires of heaven. He is a true symbol of God's majesty."
THUNDERGROOVE Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 1579	Posted - 2015.03.05 01:07:00 - [38] - Quote tbh I'm never mad when I die to a forge/railgun unless they're in their spawn. Our lives are nothing but a means to an end. AIV member. 21 day EVE trial.
Xocoyol Zaraoul Superior Genetics 3494	Posted - 2015.03.05 04:27:00 - [39] - Quote Anyone have that document handy? I'd love to see this PC document again and look up the Forge Gun in how it's ranked for kills "You see those red dots over there? Go and shoot them until you see a +50 on the screen" - Arkena Wyrnspire
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 1091	Posted - 2015.03.05 07:35:00 - [40] - Quote Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote: Anyone have that document handy? I'd love to see this PC document again and look up the Forge Gun in how it's ranked for kills Pokey put it into a Google Doc: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bUltXQYBFeUqpvWsTbX72PEcSkUKlrqi8MSfWm3il0c/edit The forges are way down there, but the Rails being so high on the kill count probably means there's a problem. BAN ADVANCED GEAR FROM PUBS \| Mass Driver Advocate

Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 1023	Posted - 2015.03.05 10:00:00 - [41] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: Stefan Stahl wrote: I'm going to go ahead and suggest that instead all AV weapons need to have a useful anti-infantry component to them to make them enjoyable to use. Much like the Plasma Cannon. Within its range it's pretty awesome against shield vehicles (if used on a commando suit) but also lots of fun against infantry. I recently suggested a more anti-infantry inclined Forgegun variant (the tactical Forgegun at 1.3 s charge time, 500 damage a shot and ~90 m range) and I'd absolutely support the return of Swarm Launcher dumb fire mode (~200 splash damage every ~2 seconds at 2 meter splash per missile). Is anyone against reintroducing Forgegun Splash damage? Even if it's just ~200 damage at 2 meter radius. It'd be helpful. That sounds like a good direction. I don't think any AV should be useless to infantry, and should have some killing ability. I think 200 splash for base damage is fine for most AV, and 300 for a direct hit is reasonable. But applying the full damage of AV against AI makes them too good. I think Rattati's recent data dump showed that rail tanks are ranked the #5 killer in PCs, and I doubt most of those are tank kills. When I said I like how the PLC works against infantry I meant that it does splash damage and also deals full direct damage. I think other weapons should behave similarly.
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1824	Posted - 2015.03.05 13:14:00 - [42] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: . . OP POST . . . That... Is an old topic. here and here. The forge is wicked sick versus all targets, versus infatry it's op as fudge as it is both easy to aim and the redberries just 'catch' the shots. Example video and another video. My short answer is: Fix the forge shake to really affect where the shot goes; now it's too easy to hit infantry pixels. My full answer with reasons here. Leave Rail Turrets as they are; they are far harder to aim and are easier to shelter from as they have several huge limitations. They aren't mass killing infantry, like the forge brawlers and forge snipers. Looking at both sides of the coin. Even Aurum one.
XxBlazikenxX Y.A.M.A.H 427	Posted - 2015.03.05 19:08:00 - [43] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: KA24DERT wrote: . . OP POST . . . That... Is an old topic. here and here. The forge is wicked sick versus all targets, versus infatry it's op as fudge as it is both easy to aim and the redberries just 'catch' the shots. Example video and another video. My short answer is: Fix the forge shake to really affect where the shot goes; now it's too easy to hit infantry pixels. My full answer with reasons here. Leave Rail Turrets as they are; they are far harder to aim and are easier to shelter from as they have several huge limitations. They aren't mass killing infantry, like the forge brawlers and forge snipers. Yes, let's make it so that ants can kill other ants. But a boot can't squash an ant and has to spend its time kicking other boots. Terrestrial Combat Officer of Y.A.M.A.H Recruitment, Free BPOs!
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7535	Posted - 2015.03.05 19:09:00 - [44] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: KA24DERT wrote: . . OP POST . . . That... Is an old topic. here and here. The forge is wicked sick versus all targets, versus infatry it's op as fudge as it is both easy to aim and the redberries just 'catch' the shots. Example video and another video. My short answer is: Fix the forge shake to really affect where the shot goes; now it's too easy to hit infantry pixels. My full answer with reasons here. Leave Rail Turrets as they are; they are far harder to aim and are easier to shelter from as they have several huge limitations. They aren't mass killing infantry, like the forge brawlers and forge snipers. dumb post is dumb AV
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5206	Posted - 2015.03.05 21:10:00 - [45] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote: Anyone have that document handy? I'd love to see this PC document again and look up the Forge Gun in how it's ranked for kills Pokey put it into a Google Doc: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bUltXQYBFeUqpvWsTbX72PEcSkUKlrqi8MSfWm3il0c/edit The forges are way down there, but the Rails being so high on the kill count probably means there's a problem. I guarentee you, the reason large rails are even remotely high is because they're often used to guard hack points, where people are forced to stand still for extended periods of time. It's a common tactic to use a rail to defend a point, but it is not indicative that the rails themselves are over performing against infantry. I'm not sure how much experience you have using large rails, but there are many factors working against them, which makes them difficult to use. Zoom is crappy for very small targets Turret rotation speed is difficult to use against small targets, especially at close range Charge cannot be held, meaning you have to predict where the target will be after the charge fires Projectile has travel time, so not only do you have to predict where the target will be be after the charge time, but you also have to account for travel time for the shot to get there No splash damage means it has to be a direct hit This is a glitch, but the projectile rarely hits where the aiming dot is, typically you have to compensate by not pointing directly at what you're shooting. So again....sure, if infantry are standing still its easy to snipe them, but thats true for any weapon. Under actual battle conditions where the target is moving, it actually takes quite a lot of skill to snipe infantry on a consistent basis with a large railgun. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 1095	Posted - 2015.03.05 21:55:00 - [46] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: KA24DERT wrote: Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote: Anyone have that document handy? I'd love to see this PC document again and look up the Forge Gun in how it's ranked for kills Pokey put it into a Google Doc: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bUltXQYBFeUqpvWsTbX72PEcSkUKlrqi8MSfWm3il0c/edit The forges are way down there, but the Rails being so high on the kill count probably means there's a problem. I guarentee you, the reason large rails are even remotely high is because they're often used to guard hack points, where people are forced to stand still for extended periods of time. It's a common tactic to use a rail to defend a point, but it is not indicative that the rails themselves are over performing against infantry. I'm not sure how much experience you have using large rails, but there are many factors working against them, which makes them difficult to use. Zoom is crappy for very small targets Turret rotation speed is difficult to use against small targets, especially at close range Charge cannot be held, meaning you have to predict where the target will be after the charge fires Projectile has travel time, so not only do you have to predict where the target will be be after the charge time, but you also have to account for travel time for the shot to get there No splash damage means it has to be a direct hit This is a glitch, but the projectile rarely hits where the aiming dot is, typically you have to compensate by not pointing directly at what you're shooting. So again....sure, if infantry are standing still its easy to snipe them, but thats true for any weapon. Under actual battle conditions where the target is moving, it actually takes quite a lot of skill to snipe infantry on a consistent basis with a large railgun. I'm sure it requires skill to rail snipe, but those skills are prevalent, and the reality is that there's rail tankers sniping infantry in every other match, and doing so effectively. I've seen rail gunners hit moving targets, and many of my deaths are on the move horizontally to the tank. But even assuming that ALL rail turret kills are against horizontally still targets, this is still a problem as there are many vital chokepoints (like hack panels) that generate those types of targets, and a single direct hit will kill most dropsuits. BAN ADVANCED GEAR FROM PUBS \| Mass Driver Advocate
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5207	Posted - 2015.03.05 22:11:00 - [47] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: I'm sure it requires skill to rail snipe, but those skills are prevalent, and the reality is that there's rail tankers sniping infantry in every other match, and doing so effectively. I've seen rail gunners hit moving targets, and many of my deaths are on the move horizontally to the tank. But even assuming that ALL rail turret kills are against horizontally still targets, this is still a problem as there are many vital chokepoints (like hack panels) that generate those types of targets, and a single direct hit will kill most dropsuits. The same argument could be made that skilled players can consistently kill infantry in 1 shot with a Plasma Cannon. Do you have an issue with that as well? Additionally a Sniper is more than capable of dominating a choke point as well, do you have an issue with that? "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 1095	Posted - 2015.03.05 22:24:00 - [48] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: KA24DERT wrote: I'm sure it requires skill to rail snipe, but those skills are prevalent, and the reality is that there's rail tankers sniping infantry in every other match, and doing so effectively. I've seen rail gunners hit moving targets, and many of my deaths are on the move horizontally to the tank. But even assuming that ALL rail turret kills are against horizontally still targets, this is still a problem as there are many vital chokepoints (like hack panels) that generate those types of targets, and a single direct hit will kill most dropsuits. The same argument could be made that skilled players can consistently kill infantry in 1 shot with a Plasma Cannon. Do you have an issue with that as well? Additionally a Sniper is more than capable of dominating a choke point as well, do you have an issue with that? The skill and luck required to land a plasma cannon shot at range are in a different league compared to a rail turret. If some of the same constraints (projectile speed, range, arc, reload) were applied to Rails, sniping infantry with rails would be much less prevalent, and Blaster turrets would fill the AI niche in a much more sane way. But besides that I've mentioned before that I'd be happy with a 4-shot plasma cannon with reduced damage for the very reason you illustrate. Also most snipers need 2-3 hits to kill a dropsuit, so not really comparable when the BASE rail turret is a one shot kill with no damage modifiers. Snipers can control a choke point sure, but Rails absolutely dominate them. BAN ADVANCED GEAR FROM PUBS \| Mass Driver Advocate
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5207	Posted - 2015.03.05 22:36:00 - [49] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: KA24DERT wrote: I'm sure it requires skill to rail snipe, but those skills are prevalent, and the reality is that there's rail tankers sniping infantry in every other match, and doing so effectively. I've seen rail gunners hit moving targets, and many of my deaths are on the move horizontally to the tank. But even assuming that ALL rail turret kills are against horizontally still targets, this is still a problem as there are many vital chokepoints (like hack panels) that generate those types of targets, and a single direct hit will kill most dropsuits. The same argument could be made that skilled players can consistently kill infantry in 1 shot with a Plasma Cannon. Do you have an issue with that as well? Additionally a Sniper is more than capable of dominating a choke point as well, do you have an issue with that? The skill and luck required to land a plasma cannon shot at range are in a different league compared to a rail turret. If some of the same constraints (projectile speed, range, arc, reload) were applied to Rails, sniping infantry with rails would be much less prevalent, and Blaster turrets would fill the AI niche in a much more sane way. But besides that I've mentioned before that I'd be happy with a 4-shot plasma cannon with reduced damage for the very reason you illustrate. Also most snipers need 2-3 hits to kill a dropsuit, so not really comparable when the BASE rail turret is a one shot kill with no damage modifiers. Snipers can control a choke point sure, but Rails absolutely dominate them. Except rails DO have constraints, as I listed above. Not the exact same constraints as the PLC, but they're there. The fact remains that you're literally aiming at a couple pixels on the screen and the hit detection on it is dubious at best. It is not easy to consistently hit people with the large railgun, and saying "skill is OP" really isn't a valid argument. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 17486	Posted - 2015.03.05 22:49:00 - [50] - Quote Not to mention I've asked for long range single shot, slight arc HAV turrets or multi-shot plasma cannon turrets in place of the current blaster but Rattati isn't having any of it. "This is the Usumgal boy, the exalted dragon, wreathed in the fires of heaven. He is a true symbol of God's majesty."

KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 1095	Posted - 2015.03.05 23:04:00 - [51] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: KA24DERT wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: KA24DERT wrote: I'm sure it requires skill to rail snipe, but those skills are prevalent, and the reality is that there's rail tankers sniping infantry in every other match, and doing so effectively. I've seen rail gunners hit moving targets, and many of my deaths are on the move horizontally to the tank. But even assuming that ALL rail turret kills are against horizontally still targets, this is still a problem as there are many vital chokepoints (like hack panels) that generate those types of targets, and a single direct hit will kill most dropsuits. The same argument could be made that skilled players can consistently kill infantry in 1 shot with a Plasma Cannon. Do you have an issue with that as well? Additionally a Sniper is more than capable of dominating a choke point as well, do you have an issue with that? The skill and luck required to land a plasma cannon shot at range are in a different league compared to a rail turret. If some of the same constraints (projectile speed, range, arc, reload) were applied to Rails, sniping infantry with rails would be much less prevalent, and Blaster turrets would fill the AI niche in a much more sane way. But besides that I've mentioned before that I'd be happy with a 4-shot plasma cannon with reduced damage for the very reason you illustrate. Also most snipers need 2-3 hits to kill a dropsuit, so not really comparable when the BASE rail turret is a one shot kill with no damage modifiers. Snipers can control a choke point sure, but Rails absolutely dominate them. Except rails DO have constraints, as I listed above. Not the exact same constraints as the PLC, but they're there. The fact remains that you're literally aiming at a couple pixels on the screen and the hit detection on it is dubious at best. It is not easy to consistently hit people with the large railgun, and saying "skill is OP" really isn't a valid argument. The PLC has almost every constraint you listed, sometimes a worse constraint. Zoom: -1 to PLC, it has NO zoom Rotation: +1 to PLC, no turn limit Charge: 0, equal constraint, PLC can't hold charge either. Travel Time: -1, PLC travels much slower Splash: +1 to PLC, has splash Hit Glitch: 0, PLC has the same issue with direct hits In addition, the PLC user: Is not in a 5k HP tank Has LESS range than a Rail Needs to adjust for arc Has a MUCH longer time between shots. Again though, my preferred PLC is a 4 shot weapon with less damage because I don't think insta-kills are a good mechanic. Either way, those few limitations on the Rail are not enough of a skill barrier to prevent the current reality, but instead of adding more restrictions ala PLC, I'd rather preserve the rail's effectiveness against vehicles and just curb it's usage against infantry with a damage modifier. BAN ADVANCED GEAR FROM PUBS \| Mass Driver Advocate
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 17487	Posted - 2015.03.05 23:08:00 - [52] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: KA24DERT wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: KA24DERT wrote: I'm sure it requires skill to rail snipe, but those skills are prevalent, and the reality is that there's rail tankers sniping infantry in every other match, and doing so effectively. I've seen rail gunners hit moving targets, and many of my deaths are on the move horizontally to the tank. But even assuming that ALL rail turret kills are against horizontally still targets, this is still a problem as there are many vital chokepoints (like hack panels) that generate those types of targets, and a single direct hit will kill most dropsuits. The same argument could be made that skilled players can consistently kill infantry in 1 shot with a Plasma Cannon. Do you have an issue with that as well? Additionally a Sniper is more than capable of dominating a choke point as well, do you have an issue with that? The skill and luck required to land a plasma cannon shot at range are in a different league compared to a rail turret. If some of the same constraints (projectile speed, range, arc, reload) were applied to Rails, sniping infantry with rails would be much less prevalent, and Blaster turrets would fill the AI niche in a much more sane way. But besides that I've mentioned before that I'd be happy with a 4-shot plasma cannon with reduced damage for the very reason you illustrate. Also most snipers need 2-3 hits to kill a dropsuit, so not really comparable when the BASE rail turret is a one shot kill with no damage modifiers. Snipers can control a choke point sure, but Rails absolutely dominate them. Except rails DO have constraints, as I listed above. Not the exact same constraints as the PLC, but they're there. The fact remains that you're literally aiming at a couple pixels on the screen and the hit detection on it is dubious at best. It is not easy to consistently hit people with the large railgun, and saying "skill is OP" really isn't a valid argument. The PLC has almost every constraint you listed, sometimes a worse constraint. Zoom: -1 to PLC, it has NO zoom Rotation: +1 to PLC, no turn limit Charge: 0, equal constraint, PLC can't hold charge either. Travel Time: -1, PLC travels much slower Splash: +1 to PLC, has splash Hit Glitch: 0, PLC has the same issue with direct hits In addition, the PLC user: Is not in a 5k HP tank Has LESS range than a Rail Needs to adjust for arc Has a MUCH longer time between shots. Again though, my preferred PLC is a 4 shot weapon with less damage because I don't think insta-kills are a good mechanic. Either way, those few limitations on the Rail are not enough of a skill barrier to prevent the current reality, but instead of adding more restrictions ala PLC, I'd rather preserve the rail's effectiveness against vehicles and just curb it's usage against infantry with a damage modifier. Consider also as negatives of the Railgun - Tracking Speeds - Elevation of Depression [ depending on the tank you can't even aim down] - Overheat and Cooldown - Limited weapon to HAV - Also has charge up time - Tiny Splash Radius "This is the Usumgal boy, the exalted dragon, wreathed in the fires of heaven. He is a true symbol of God's majesty."
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5211	Posted - 2015.03.05 23:22:00 - [53] - Quote And again as I said, the majority of the kills you're seeing in PC are focused around people standing still at hack points and being blown off the panel. The amount of kills that happen outside of that specific situation are not substantial enough to merit this sort of change. It is easily the most difficult turret to use against infantry. I don't see why people feel the need to make it even worse. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7544	Posted - 2015.03.05 23:46:00 - [54] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: And again as I said, the majority of the kills you're seeing in PC are focused around people standing still at hack points and being blown off the panel. The amount of kills that happen outside of that specific situation are not substantial enough to merit this sort of change. It is easily the most difficult turret to use against infantry. I don't see why people feel the need to make it even worse. It's typical "it killed me, nerf it." AV
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5212	Posted - 2015.03.05 23:54:00 - [55] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: And again as I said, the majority of the kills you're seeing in PC are focused around people standing still at hack points and being blown off the panel. The amount of kills that happen outside of that specific situation are not substantial enough to merit this sort of change. It is easily the most difficult turret to use against infantry. I don't see why people feel the need to make it even worse. It's typical "it killed me, nerf it." I get it. No one likes to be instantly killed, but that's the nature of A LOT of weapons in Dust, all of which have been complained about as some point (save perhaps the Plasma Cannon). But the fact remains that a mix of downsides and situational requirements are what makes these balanced. Again I'm not sure how much experience the OP has with railguns, but from my personal experience this change is not needed. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1825	Posted - 2015.03.06 00:55:00 - [56] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: That... Is an old topic. here and here. The forge is wicked sick versus all targets, versus infatry it's op as fudge as it is both easy to aim and the redberries just 'catch' the shots. Example video and another video. My short answer is: Fix the forge shake to really affect where the shot goes; now it's too easy to hit infantry pixels. My full answer with reasons here. Leave Rail Turrets as they are; they are far harder to aim and are easier to shelter from as they have several huge limitations. They aren't mass killing infantry, like the forge brawlers and forge snipers. dumb post is dumb Elaborate. Looking at both sides of the coin. Even Aurum one.
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1825	Posted - 2015.03.06 00:57:00 - [57] - Quote XxBlazikenxX wrote: KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: That... Is an old topic. here and here. The forge is wicked sick versus all targets, versus infatry it's op as fudge as it is both easy to aim and the redberries just 'catch' the shots. Example video and another video. My short answer is: Fix the forge shake to really affect where the shot goes; now it's too easy to hit infantry pixels. My full answer with reasons here. Leave Rail Turrets as they are; they are far harder to aim and are easier to shelter from as they have several huge limitations. They aren't mass killing infantry, like the forge brawlers and forge snipers. Yes, let's make it so that ants can kill other ants. But a boot can't squash an ant and has to spend its time kicking other boots. You, sir, are making absolutely no sense whatsoever. Looking at both sides of the coin. Even Aurum one.
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 1095	Posted - 2015.03.07 00:43:00 - [58] - Quote True Adamance wrote: KA24DERT wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: [quote=KA24DERT][quote=Pokey Dravon] Except rails DO have constraints, as I listed above. Not the exact same constraints as the PLC, but they're there. The fact remains that you're literally aiming at a couple pixels on the screen and the hit detection on it is dubious at best. It is not easy to consistently hit people with the large railgun, and saying "skill is OP" really isn't a valid argument. The PLC has almost every constraint you listed, sometimes a worse constraint. Zoom: -1 to PLC, it has NO zoom Rotation: +1 to PLC, no turn limit Charge: 0, equal constraint, PLC can't hold charge either. Travel Time: -1, PLC travels much slower Splash: +1 to PLC, has splash Hit Glitch: 0, PLC has the same issue with direct hits In addition, the PLC user: Is not in a 5k HP tank Has LESS range than a Rail Needs to adjust for arc Has a MUCH longer time between shots. Again though, my preferred PLC is a 4 shot weapon with less damage because I don't think insta-kills are a good mechanic. Either way, those few limitations on the Rail are not enough of a skill barrier to prevent the current reality, but instead of adding more restrictions ala PLC, I'd rather preserve the rail's effectiveness against vehicles and just curb it's usage against infantry with a damage modifier. Consider also as negatives of the Railgun - Tracking Speeds - Elevation of Depression [ depending on the tank you can't even aim down] - Overheat and Cooldown - Limited weapon to HAV - Also has charge up time - Tiny Splash Radius Yep, there's a list of things that makes Rails hard to use against infantry, but the reality is that sniping infantry is a common activity despite that list. The reason for that is that the benefits Rail sniping outweigh the high barrier of operation. Once you wipe the sweat off your brow from setting up your tank properly, you get to one-shot infantry with impunity from a safe distance. And that's just too one-sided. Blaster and Missile tanks are a much better design for an anti-infantry role due to increased risk on the part of the tanker. BAN ADVANCED GEAR FROM PUBS \| Mass Driver Advocate
PLAYSTTION Corrosive Synergy RISE of LEGION 612	Posted - 2015.03.07 01:29:00 - [59] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: I think it's time we admit that Rails and Forges are too effective at sniping infantry. I can't think of any other AV weapon in the game that doubles as an AI weapon in a MORE deadly capacity than it's AV role. The current balance is as silly as letting rifles do 100% damage against vehicles, with the added frustration that these "AV" weapons kill infantry in one hit. I propose that the efficiency of the Rail turret be reduced to 20% against infantry, reducing the damage for the base railgun turret from 1395 damage to 195.75 damage. And for that matter, they can get their splash damage bumped to 100. A similar reduction for the forge reduces damage from 1200 to 180 damage. I think these are much more sane values and will improve gameplay via reduction of frustrating deaths. NO. Would a 120mm cannon hit a person and scratch him? NO. So a forge gun could completely destroy a merc. Plus have you ever tried FG sniping? You hit 1/4 shots and that one is usually someone who stood still to long. Rails are similar, what does a 20mm cannon do to a person? Rip them apart. A railgun should do just that. Gassault Calogi and more. Respec Pending. `- Open Beta Vet - 38 mil sp - - Director of Corrosive Synergy -`
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 1095	Posted - 2015.03.07 01:56:00 - [60] - Quote PLAYSTTION wrote: KA24DERT wrote: I think it's time we admit that Rails and Forges are too effective at sniping infantry. I can't think of any other AV weapon in the game that doubles as an AI weapon in a MORE deadly capacity than it's AV role. The current balance is as silly as letting rifles do 100% damage against vehicles, with the added frustration that these "AV" weapons kill infantry in one hit. I propose that the efficiency of the Rail turret be reduced to 20% against infantry, reducing the damage for the base railgun turret from 1395 damage to 195.75 damage. And for that matter, they can get their splash damage bumped to 100. A similar reduction for the forge reduces damage from 1200 to 180 damage. I think these are much more sane values and will improve gameplay via reduction of frustrating deaths. NO. Would a 120mm cannon hit a person and scratch him? NO. So a forge gun could completely destroy a merc. Plus have you ever tried FG sniping? You hit 1/4 shots and that one is usually someone who stood still to long. Rails are similar, what does a 20mm cannon do to a person? Rip them apart. A railgun should do just that. Yesterday I got shot by a hobo on the way back from work, my guts spilled all over the sidewalk, it was pretty terrible. But I had 23 armor left so it's all good. BAN ADVANCED GEAR FROM PUBS \| Mass Driver Advocate



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