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[Request] Reduce rail turret and forge efficiency against infantry.

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Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood RISE of LEGION 160	Posted - 2015.03.07 02:07:00 - [61] - Quote There is only one thing that I'll support. Rails profile is 63/77 on infantry. Blasters profile is 77/63 on vehicles. Missiles keep the 79/119 on both. I don't large turret so, i wouldn't know how blasters work for large vehicles. Entering the void and becoming wind. Message for 1v1 air to air
Dementia Maniaclease Dust 514 Elite Ops 1	Posted - 2015.03.07 02:48:00 - [62] - Quote No
XxBlazikenxX Y.A.M.A.H 433	Posted - 2015.03.07 23:44:00 - [63] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: XxBlazikenxX wrote: KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: That... Is an old topic. here and here. The forge is wicked sick versus all targets, versus infatry it's op as fudge as it is both easy to aim and the redberries just 'catch' the shots. Example video and another video. My short answer is: Fix the forge shake to really affect where the shot goes; now it's too easy to hit infantry pixels. My full answer with reasons here. Leave Rail Turrets as they are; they are far harder to aim and are easier to shelter from as they have several huge limitations. They aren't mass killing infantry, like the forge brawlers and forge snipers. Yes, let's make it so that ants can kill other ants. But a boot can't squash an ant and has to spend its time kicking other boots. You, sir, are making absolutely no sense whatsoever. It's called an analogy. Terrestrial Combat Officer of Y.A.M.A.H Recruitment, Free BPOs!
Cypher Nil Fireteam Tempest 5	Posted - 2015.03.08 00:01:00 - [64] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: I can't think of any other AV weapon in the game that doubles as an AI weapon in a MORE deadly capacity than it's AV role. Rocket launchers in halo RPG's in cod Repair tool in battlefield Honestly there's loads of examples Its ok, I'm a ninja
Tread Loudly 2 Ametat Security Amarr Empire 68	Posted - 2015.03.08 00:05:00 - [65] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: I think it's time we admit that Rails and Forges are too effective at sniping infantry. I can't think of any other AV weapon in the game that doubles as an AI weapon in a MORE deadly capacity than it's AV role. The current balance is as silly as letting rifles do 100% damage against vehicles, with the added frustration that these "AV" weapons kill infantry in one hit. I propose that the efficiency of the Rail turret be reduced to 20% against infantry, reducing the damage for the base railgun turret from 1395 damage to 195.75 damage. And for that matter, they can get their splash damage bumped to 100. A similar reduction for the forge reduces damage from 1200 to 180 damage. I think these are much more sane values and will improve gameplay via reduction of frustrating deaths. One question... Were you tripping off of acid while making this thread? Let's think about this for a second. I have a railgun shooting a projectile at super sonic speeds and it hits a Dropsuit, it shouldn't die just because it's an AV weapon and not a AP weapon? Then along the lines of frustrating deaths, you have no idea haha if you run infantry all the time. When is the last time you lost 700,000 Isk in 1 life? It happens pretty often whilst in a Team oriented vehicle :) I Like Tanks, Nova Knives and MagSec SMG's.
XxBlazikenxX Y.A.M.A.H 436	Posted - 2015.03.08 04:00:00 - [66] - Quote Tread Loudly 2 wrote: KA24DERT wrote: I think it's time we admit that Rails and Forges are too effective at sniping infantry. I can't think of any other AV weapon in the game that doubles as an AI weapon in a MORE deadly capacity than it's AV role. The current balance is as silly as letting rifles do 100% damage against vehicles, with the added frustration that these "AV" weapons kill infantry in one hit. I propose that the efficiency of the Rail turret be reduced to 20% against infantry, reducing the damage for the base railgun turret from 1395 damage to 195.75 damage. And for that matter, they can get their splash damage bumped to 100. A similar reduction for the forge reduces damage from 1200 to 180 damage. I think these are much more sane values and will improve gameplay via reduction of frustrating deaths. One question... Were you tripping off of acid while making this thread? Let's think about this for a second. I have a railgun shooting a projectile at super sonic speeds and it hits a Dropsuit, it shouldn't die just because it's an AV weapon and not a AP weapon? Then along the lines of frustrating deaths, you have no idea haha if you run infantry all the time. When is the last time you lost 700,000 Isk in 1 life? It happens pretty often whilst in a Team oriented vehicle :) No, he's tripping off something more than acid for sure. Terrestrial Combat Officer of Y.A.M.A.H Recruitment, Free BPOs!
CarlitoX Jojooojo 151	Posted - 2015.03.08 07:51:00 - [67] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: I think it's time we admit that Rails and Forges are too effective at sniping infantry. I can't think of any other AV weapon in the game that doubles as an AI weapon in a MORE deadly capacity than it's AV role. The current balance is as silly as letting rifles do 100% damage against vehicles, with the added frustration that these "AV" weapons kill infantry in one hit. I propose that the efficiency of the Rail turret be reduced to 20% against infantry, reducing the damage for the base railgun turret from 1395 damage to 195.75 damage. And for that matter, they can get their splash damage bumped to 100. A similar reduction for the forge reduces damage from 1200 to 180 damage. I think these are much more sane values and will improve gameplay via reduction of frustrating deaths. #ButtHurt Amarr 4 ever. C3PO's alt
Miokai Zahou WarRavens 453	Posted - 2015.03.08 09:04:00 - [68] - Quote This thread and this proposal is just plain bad. Noob isn't really a status, it's the online equivalent of a 5-year old calling you a poopy fart head. pâ+(n+ƒ-ön+ƒ)n+ë
Kain Spero Negative-Feedback. 4680	Posted - 2015.03.08 09:11:00 - [69] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: I think it's time we admit that Rails and Forges are too effective at sniping infantry. I can't think of any other AV weapon in the game that doubles as an AI weapon in a MORE deadly capacity than it's AV role. The current balance is as silly as letting rifles do 100% damage against vehicles, with the added frustration that these "AV" weapons kill infantry in one hit. I propose that the efficiency of the Rail turret be reduced to 20% against infantry, reducing the damage for the base railgun turret from 1395 damage to 195.75 damage. And for that matter, they can get their splash damage bumped to 100. A similar reduction for the forge reduces damage from 1200 to 180 damage. I think these are much more sane values and will improve gameplay via reduction of frustrating deaths. I actually think that reducing the prevalence of one-hit kill weapons in the game would actually be beneficial. Also I think the approach of reduced direct hit damage while adding back splash so these weapons can be suppressive would be a balanced way to reduce the direct damage to infantry. Not sure about the specific numbers, but I think the idea has merit. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
ROMULUS H3X research lab 354	Posted - 2015.03.08 16:47:00 - [70] - Quote Stefan Stahl wrote: I'm going to go ahead and suggest that instead all AV weapons need to have a useful anti-infantry component to them to make them enjoyable to use. Much like the Plasma Cannon. Within its range it's pretty awesome against shield vehicles (if used on a commando suit) but also lots of fun against infantry. I recently suggested a more anti-infantry inclined Forgegun variant (the tactical Forgegun at 1.3 s charge time, 500 damage a shot and ~90 m range) and I'd absolutely support the return of Swarm Launcher dumb fire mode (~200 splash damage every ~2 seconds at 2 meter splash per missile). Is anyone against reintroducing Forgegun Splash damage? Even if it's just ~200 damage at 2 meter radius. It'd be helpful. Use the assault if you want splash FORGE/FLAYLOCK/FISTS PLASMA/PISTOL/PUNCH ALL OF YOU PUNKS GET HUMILIATED AFTER LUNCH!

Spkr4theDead Red Star. 3045	Posted - 2015.03.08 17:02:00 - [71] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: KA24DERT wrote: I think it's time we admit that Rails and Forges are too effective at sniping infantry. I can't think of any other AV weapon in the game that doubles as an AI weapon in a MORE deadly capacity than it's AV role. The current balance is as silly as letting rifles do 100% damage against vehicles, with the added frustration that these "AV" weapons kill infantry in one hit. I propose that the efficiency of the Rail turret be reduced to 20% against infantry, reducing the damage for the base railgun turret from 1395 damage to 195.75 damage. And for that matter, they can get their splash damage bumped to 100. A similar reduction for the forge reduces damage from 1200 to 180 damage. I think these are much more sane values and will improve gameplay via reduction of frustrating deaths. So you want to nerf aim? Go away Nope, I don't want to nerf aim, that was another thread by somebody else. The problem with the random dispersion idea is that it will also affect AV capabilities. This is strictly a damage reduction nerf specifically against Infantry, in the same manner rifles can barely hurt Vehicles. With this change I'd like to bring splash back, which would make it easier to inflict damage and suppress infantry without the insta-gib. If Remotes are ever fixed, this will be the next point of frustration. So basically another vehicle nerf. Please, go away. Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 3045	Posted - 2015.03.08 17:04:00 - [72] - Quote Shamarskii Simon wrote: I don't large turret so, i wouldn't know how blasters work for large vehicles. Well that explains everything. Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 3045	Posted - 2015.03.08 17:07:00 - [73] - Quote The dispersion for all automatic weapons should be increased to make it harder to hit targets. Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
ROMULUS H3X research lab 355	Posted - 2015.03.08 17:10:00 - [74] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: I think it's time we admit that Rails and Forges are too effective at sniping infantry. I can't think of any other AV weapon in the game that doubles as an AI weapon in a MORE deadly capacity than it's AV role. The current balance is as silly as letting rifles do 100% damage against vehicles, with the added frustration that these "AV" weapons kill infantry in one hit. I propose that the efficiency of the Rail turret be reduced to 20% against infantry, reducing the damage for the base railgun turret from 1395 damage to 195.75 damage. And for that matter, they can get their splash damage bumped to 100. A similar reduction for the forge reduces damage from 1200 to 180 damage. I think these are much more sane values and will improve gameplay via reduction of frustrating deaths. Hhahahahahha, so you want forgers to be almost completely defenseless against other fattys with HMG...LOL 180 direct damage to a clone..... God damn, do you even realize how little that is? The friggen splash does more damage hahahahhahahah SANE values this guy states.... Hahahahhahah you must be mental.. Ohh I remember you... I forged you in the face just the other day! Even more satisfying now that I know you are crying about forge direct shots. Whenever I see you in battle... This is all I am going to do to you. Forge face. Forge face. Forge face. FORGE/FLAYLOCK/FISTS PLASMA/PISTOL/PUNCH ALL OF YOU PUNKS GET HUMILIATED AFTER LUNCH!
Tread Loudly 2 Ametat Security Amarr Empire 73	Posted - 2015.03.08 18:36:00 - [75] - Quote ROMULUS H3X wrote: KA24DERT wrote: I think it's time we admit that Rails and Forges are too effective at sniping infantry. I can't think of any other AV weapon in the game that doubles as an AI weapon in a MORE deadly capacity than it's AV role. The current balance is as silly as letting rifles do 100% damage against vehicles, with the added frustration that these "AV" weapons kill infantry in one hit. I propose that the efficiency of the Rail turret be reduced to 20% against infantry, reducing the damage for the base railgun turret from 1395 damage to 195.75 damage. And for that matter, they can get their splash damage bumped to 100. A similar reduction for the forge reduces damage from 1200 to 180 damage. I think these are much more sane values and will improve gameplay via reduction of frustrating deaths. Hhahahahahha, so you want forgers to be almost completely defenseless against other fattys with HMG...LOL 180 direct damage to a clone..... God damn, do you even realize how little that is? The friggen splash does more damage hahahahhahahah SANE values this guy states.... Hahahahhahah you must be mental.. Ohh I remember you... I forged you in the face just the other day! Even more satisfying now that I know you are crying about forge direct shots. Whenever I see you in battle... This is all I am going to do to you. Forge face. Forge face. Forge face. Why you no just punch him in face? I Like Tanks, Nova Knives and MagSec SMG's.
XxBlazikenxX Y.A.M.A.H 451	Posted - 2015.03.08 19:24:00 - [76] - Quote Tread Loudly 2 wrote: ROMULUS H3X wrote: KA24DERT wrote: I think it's time we admit that Rails and Forges are too effective at sniping infantry. I can't think of any other AV weapon in the game that doubles as an AI weapon in a MORE deadly capacity than it's AV role. The current balance is as silly as letting rifles do 100% damage against vehicles, with the added frustration that these "AV" weapons kill infantry in one hit. I propose that the efficiency of the Rail turret be reduced to 20% against infantry, reducing the damage for the base railgun turret from 1395 damage to 195.75 damage. And for that matter, they can get their splash damage bumped to 100. A similar reduction for the forge reduces damage from 1200 to 180 damage. I think these are much more sane values and will improve gameplay via reduction of frustrating deaths. Hhahahahahha, so you want forgers to be almost completely defenseless against other fattys with HMG...LOL 180 direct damage to a clone..... God damn, do you even realize how little that is? The friggen splash does more damage hahahahhahahah SANE values this guy states.... Hahahahhahah you must be mental.. Ohh I remember you... I forged you in the face just the other day! Even more satisfying now that I know you are crying about forge direct shots. Whenever I see you in battle... This is all I am going to do to you. Forge face. Forge face. Forge face. Why you no just punch him in face? Myofibs? Terrestrial Combat Officer of Y.A.M.A.H Recruitment, Free BPOs!
Tread Loudly 2 Ametat Security Amarr Empire 74	Posted - 2015.03.08 20:00:00 - [77] - Quote XxBlazikenxX wrote: Tread Loudly 2 wrote: ROMULUS H3X wrote: KA24DERT wrote: I think it's time we admit that Rails and Forges are too effective at sniping infantry. I can't think of any other AV weapon in the game that doubles as an AI weapon in a MORE deadly capacity than it's AV role. The current balance is as silly as letting rifles do 100% damage against vehicles, with the added frustration that these "AV" weapons kill infantry in one hit. I propose that the efficiency of the Rail turret be reduced to 20% against infantry, reducing the damage for the base railgun turret from 1395 damage to 195.75 damage. And for that matter, they can get their splash damage bumped to 100. A similar reduction for the forge reduces damage from 1200 to 180 damage. I think these are much more sane values and will improve gameplay via reduction of frustrating deaths. Hhahahahahha, so you want forgers to be almost completely defenseless against other fattys with HMG...LOL 180 direct damage to a clone..... God damn, do you even realize how little that is? The friggen splash does more damage hahahahhahahah SANE values this guy states.... Hahahahhahah you must be mental.. Ohh I remember you... I forged you in the face just the other day! Even more satisfying now that I know you are crying about forge direct shots. Whenever I see you in battle... This is all I am going to do to you. Forge face. Forge face. Forge face. Why you no just punch him in face? Myofibs? Of Course I Like Tanks, Nova Knives and MagSec SMG's.
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 1101	Posted - 2015.03.08 21:07:00 - [78] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: KA24DERT wrote: I think it's time we admit that Rails and Forges are too effective at sniping infantry. I can't think of any other AV weapon in the game that doubles as an AI weapon in a MORE deadly capacity than it's AV role. The current balance is as silly as letting rifles do 100% damage against vehicles, with the added frustration that these "AV" weapons kill infantry in one hit. I propose that the efficiency of the Rail turret be reduced to 20% against infantry, reducing the damage for the base railgun turret from 1395 damage to 195.75 damage. And for that matter, they can get their splash damage bumped to 100. A similar reduction for the forge reduces damage from 1200 to 180 damage. I think these are much more sane values and will improve gameplay via reduction of frustrating deaths. I actually think that reducing the prevalence of one-hit kill weapons in the game would actually be beneficial. Also I think the approach of reduced direct hit damage while adding back splash so these weapons can be suppressive would be a balanced way to reduce the direct damage to infantry. Not sure about the specific numbers, but I think the idea has merit. That's my gist. Most of the insta-gibs should go away or be restricted. - Plasma Cannon should be a 3-4 shot weapon with lower overall damage (the jump buff will bring this to the forefront...) - REs should be re-tooled into a trap-only weapon (requiring placement and a 5 second initialization) - Rails and Forges shouldn't be able to 1-shot infantry (but splash should be added to let them still kill/suppress) etc... You're pointing to a more holistic rebalance, but getting the conversation started on "nerfs" is always rough, even when it's painfully obvious. I wish more tankers/forgers would come up with better numbers for what's fair against infantry, but so far it appears that "fair" is 1200 damage. BAN ADVANCED GEAR FROM PUBS \| Mass Driver Advocate
Tread Loudly 2 Ametat Security Amarr Empire 74	Posted - 2015.03.08 21:36:00 - [79] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: Kain Spero wrote: KA24DERT wrote: I think it's time we admit that Rails and Forges are too effective at sniping infantry. I can't think of any other AV weapon in the game that doubles as an AI weapon in a MORE deadly capacity than it's AV role. The current balance is as silly as letting rifles do 100% damage against vehicles, with the added frustration that these "AV" weapons kill infantry in one hit. I propose that the efficiency of the Rail turret be reduced to 20% against infantry, reducing the damage for the base railgun turret from 1395 damage to 195.75 damage. And for that matter, they can get their splash damage bumped to 100. A similar reduction for the forge reduces damage from 1200 to 180 damage. I think these are much more sane values and will improve gameplay via reduction of frustrating deaths. I actually think that reducing the prevalence of one-hit kill weapons in the game would actually be beneficial. Also I think the approach of reduced direct hit damage while adding back splash so these weapons can be suppressive would be a balanced way to reduce the direct damage to infantry. Not sure about the specific numbers, but I think the idea has merit. That's my gist. Most of the insta-gibs should go away or be restricted. - Plasma Cannon should be a 3-4 shot weapon with lower overall damage (the jump buff will bring this to the forefront...) - REs should be re-tooled into a trap-only weapon (requiring placement and a 5 second initialization) - Rails and Forges shouldn't be able to 1-shot infantry (but splash should be added to let them still kill/suppress) etc... You're pointing to a more holistic rebalance, but getting the conversation started on "nerfs" is always rough, even when it's painfully obvious. I wish more tankers/forgers would come up with better numbers for what's fair against infantry, but so far it appears that "fair" is 1200 damage. Well what we tankers/forgers ask is for people like yourself to think "logically" which may not always appeal to you and sometimes won't even appeal to the vast majority. By thinking "logically" what I mean is that if you are hit by a supersonic projectile even with your advanced armor you shouldn't be able to take a shot and keep on moving, hitting a strafing target or even just a moving target in general takes at least a decent bit of skill not to mention a good amount of knowledge of how to lead a target or guess where they are heading. If anything is painfully obvious as far as nerfs needing to happen, well to say the least you are looking at the wrong thing to fix... Personally I think that all of the current bugs should be worked out, then newer features/items be added, and finally work out the kinks to make it a level playing (Not a playing field that benefits scrubs and their needs). However the order of this could quickly change if something gamebreaking were to happen. However this is just my opinion, I'm sure your's is far different from mine... I Like Tanks, Nova Knives and MagSec SMG's.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5272	Posted - 2015.03.08 21:40:00 - [80] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: I wish more tankers/forgers would come up with better numbers for what's fair against infantry, but so far it appears that "fair" is 1200 damage. So, when a new player comes into the game, I should tell them "This is a Large Railgun, It's used to kill vehicles. It will take 2-4 shots to kill the vehicle. Oh and it'll take the same number of shots to kill infantry too" and the new player will look at me and laugh because he thinks I'm joking. If you want to make Large Rails harder to use against infantry, that's fine. But as I told Kane in the Skype chat, there are half a dozen attributes that affect the performance of Large Railguns against infantry, and people are only focusing on the damage. Do I think it should be easy to snipe infantry? No. But god damn if I hit them they need to be liquified. Also a multi shot Plasma Cannon does does less damage per shot? We have that already, it's called the Breach Mass Driver. Why do we need another weapon that does the same thing? "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net

KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 1101	Posted - 2015.03.08 22:38:00 - [81] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: KA24DERT wrote: I wish more tankers/forgers would come up with better numbers for what's fair against infantry, but so far it appears that "fair" is 1200 damage. So, when a new player comes into the game, I should tell them "This is a Large Railgun, It's used to kill vehicles. It will take 2-4 shots to kill the vehicle. Oh and it'll take the same number of shots to kill infantry too" and the new player will look at me and laugh because he thinks I'm joking. If you want to make Large Rails harder to use against infantry, that's fine. But as I told Kane in the Skype chat, there are half a dozen attributes that affect the performance of Large Railguns against infantry, and people are only focusing on the damage. Do I think it should be easy to snipe infantry? No. But god damn if I hit them they need to be liquified. Also a multi shot Plasma Cannon does does less damage per shot? We have that already, it's called the Breach Mass Driver. Why do we need another weapon that does the same thing? Plasma Cannon is anti shield. It wouldn't be the same thing. By that logic we should go back to just having the AR, but that's besides the point. Regarding realism, most of the weapons in this game would kill in one hit, dropsuit or not, if it were real life. Hell, a few weeks ago Lockheed tested a laser against a ground target and burnt a hole in it from 1 mile away. In the year 2015. What would a laser rifle TWENTY THOUSAND years in the future do? Certainly more than the annoying buzzing it does in Dust. And what does "armor" mean? How does one bullet always equate to the removal of a certain unit of "armor"? How do skills work? How can I "learn" more armor? You explain these idiosyncrasies to the noob the same way you explain everything else: "Because that's the way it is in this game, if you want real, join the army" The question isn't whether or not it's "realistic" or not, it's whether it's a good mechanic or not. Realism is a silly thing to be dogmatic about when designing a video game. You have no traction there. Also, it doesn't matter how "hard" rail/forge sniping is, the barrier to entry has been surmounted by enough players to make it a common occurrence. BAN ADVANCED GEAR FROM PUBS \| Mass Driver Advocate
Tread Loudly 2 Ametat Security Amarr Empire 74	Posted - 2015.03.08 23:39:00 - [82] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: KA24DERT wrote: I wish more tankers/forgers would come up with better numbers for what's fair against infantry, but so far it appears that "fair" is 1200 damage. So, when a new player comes into the game, I should tell them "This is a Large Railgun, It's used to kill vehicles. It will take 2-4 shots to kill the vehicle. Oh and it'll take the same number of shots to kill infantry too" and the new player will look at me and laugh because he thinks I'm joking. If you want to make Large Rails harder to use against infantry, that's fine. But as I told Kane in the Skype chat, there are half a dozen attributes that affect the performance of Large Railguns against infantry, and people are only focusing on the damage. Do I think it should be easy to snipe infantry? No. But god damn if I hit them they need to be liquified. Also a multi shot Plasma Cannon does does less damage per shot? We have that already, it's called the Breach Mass Driver. Why do we need another weapon that does the same thing? Plasma Cannon is anti shield. It wouldn't be the same thing. By that logic we should go back to just having the AR, but that's besides the point. Regarding realism, most of the weapons in this game would kill in one hit, dropsuit or not, if it were real life. Hell, a few weeks ago Lockheed tested a laser against a ground target and burnt a hole in it from 1 mile away. In the year 2015. What would a laser rifle TWENTY THOUSAND years in the future do? Certainly more than the annoying buzzing it does in Dust. And what does "armor" mean? How does one bullet always equate to the removal of a certain unit of "armor"? How do skills work? How can I "learn" more armor? You explain these idiosyncrasies to the noob the same way you explain everything else: "Because that's the way it is in this game, if you want real, join the army" The question isn't whether or not it's "realistic" or not, it's whether it's a good mechanic or not. Realism is a silly thing to be dogmatic about when designing a video game. You have no traction there. Also, it doesn't matter how "hard" rail/forge sniping is, the barrier to entry has been surmounted by enough players to make it a common occurrence. I need to get online again, and definitely talk to doc if he stills gets on, but that's besides the point . C'mon think just for a little while, why should infantry have even the slightest chance of surviving a large rail shot? Because it's "unfair" based off of it's ability to one hit kill infantry? Well based off of that being your main argument it is no longer worth reasoning with you as you seem fairly set in the way you'd like to view the issue. I Like Tanks, Nova Knives and MagSec SMG's.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5273	Posted - 2015.03.09 00:09:00 - [83] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: Plasma Cannon is anti shield. It wouldn't be the same thing. By that logic we should go back to just having the AR, but that's besides the point. Because the natural weapon of Assault Rifle, Scrambler Rifle, Rail Rifle, and Combat rifle are all different? If you want to have a variant with multiple weaker shots of the Plasma Cannon, sure. But the nature of weapon in terms of AV is highly dependent upon it's high alpha damage. Are you saying we should make it less effective against vehicles because you don't like getting 1-shotted as an infantry? "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
ROMULUS H3X research lab 356	Posted - 2015.03.09 00:20:00 - [84] - Quote Tread Loudly 2 wrote: ROMULUS H3X wrote: KA24DERT wrote: I think it's time we admit that Rails and Forges are too effective at sniping infantry. I can't think of any other AV weapon in the game that doubles as an AI weapon in a MORE deadly capacity than it's AV role. The current balance is as silly as letting rifles do 100% damage against vehicles, with the added frustration that these "AV" weapons kill infantry in one hit. I propose that the efficiency of the Rail turret be reduced to 20% against infantry, reducing the damage for the base railgun turret from 1395 damage to 195.75 damage. And for that matter, they can get their splash damage bumped to 100. A similar reduction for the forge reduces damage from 1200 to 180 damage. I think these are much more sane values and will improve gameplay via reduction of frustrating deaths. Hhahahahahha, so you want forgers to be almost completely defenseless against other fattys with HMG...LOL 180 direct damage to a clone..... God damn, do you even realize how little that is? The friggen splash does more damage hahahahhahahah SANE values this guy states.... Hahahahhahah you must be mental.. Ohh I remember you... I forged you in the face just the other day! Even more satisfying now that I know you are crying about forge direct shots. Whenever I see you in battle... This is all I am going to do to you. Forge face. Forge face. Forge face. Why you no just punch him in face? I actually leveled him 3 times with Melee yesterday. Apparantly he's okay with that thought of my Melee attacks doing more damage than his [[proposed forge gun direct damage]] Laugh my assssssss OFFFFFFFFFFFFF KA24DERP is my new name for him. FORGE/FLAYLOCK/FISTS PLASMA/PISTOL/PUNCH ALL OF YOU PUNKS GET HUMILIATED AFTER LUNCH!
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 1101	Posted - 2015.03.09 00:43:00 - [85] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: KA24DERT wrote: Plasma Cannon is anti shield. It wouldn't be the same thing. By that logic we should go back to just having the AR, but that's besides the point. Because the natural weapon of Assault Rifle, Scrambler Rifle, Rail Rifle, and Combat rifle are all different? If you want to have a variant with multiple weaker shots of the Plasma Cannon, sure. But the nature of weapon in terms of AV is highly dependent upon it's high alpha damage. Are you saying we should make it less effective against vehicles because you don't like getting 1-shotted as an infantry? It wouldn't necessarily be less effective. You can modify direct damage, rounds per clip, reload, and time between shots to strike a balance. It's also possible to preserve the current Plasma Cannon, but I would like that variant to have low efficiency against infantry to prevent most insta-kills. I'm not saying that AV should be less effective against vehicles. This whole thread is about reducing AV alpha damage against infantry specifically. BAN ADVANCED GEAR FROM PUBS \| Mass Driver Advocate
Doc DDD TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 380	Posted - 2015.03.09 01:31:00 - [86] - Quote Swarms should be able to lock onto infantry. That's how much sense this thread makes. Dert... I could maybe see pushing for a slightly smaller OHK hitbox on infantry, if there already isn't one.. but less damage is a tough one..
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 1101	Posted - 2015.03.09 05:32:00 - [87] - Quote Doc DDD wrote: Swarms should be able to lock onto infantry. That's how much sense this thread makes. Dert... I could maybe see pushing for a slightly smaller OHK hitbox on infantry, if there already isn't one.. but less damage is a tough one.. I would argue that a better analogy is rifles doing 100% damage to tanks. But your hitbox idea is even harsher than what I'm proposing though. I don't want rails/forges to lose their ability to hit infantry, in fact I think it's ok for rails and forges to kill infantry with 3-4 rounds of splash, or 2 direct hits, or a combination thereof. The idea isn't to remove the ability to hit infantry, it's to remove the ability to kill infantry with no warning. BAN ADVANCED GEAR FROM PUBS \| Mass Driver Advocate
Doc DDD TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 380	Posted - 2015.03.09 08:29:00 - [88] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: Doc DDD wrote: Swarms should be able to lock onto infantry. That's how much sense this thread makes. Dert... I could maybe see pushing for a slightly smaller OHK hitbox on infantry, if there already isn't one.. but less damage is a tough one.. I would argue that a better analogy is rifles doing 100% damage to tanks. But your hitbox idea is even harsher than what I'm proposing though. I don't want rails/forges to lose their ability to hit infantry, in fact I think it's ok for rails and forges to kill infantry with 3-4 rounds of splash, or 2 direct hits, or a combination thereof. The idea isn't to remove the ability to hit infantry, it's to remove the ability to kill infantry with no warning. I would argue a better analogy is sidearms doing 500% damage to infantry... Because it doesn't make any sense other than you don't want the largest ammo rounds in the game to to hit you as hard as they hit a TANK an LAV or DROPSHIP. If dropsuit armor reduces large turret/forge damage by 80% then I want a layer of it coating my tank. Another analogy would be like saying lazer orbital strikes should only do 10% damage to infantry, large warbarge should only do 5%... because you don't like dying to orbitals.. Having weapons that only do alpha damage to vehicles and less damage to infantry should stop with Av nades and swarms... I don't like PLC damage on my tank, but I'm not going to start a thread asking to nerf all AV damage by 50% to vehicles if the same weapon can one shot infantry... Should a proto mass driver round do less damage to a cloaked scout with only 300 ehp than a heavy with 1500 ehp? No Dert.. the cloaked scout should stay away from the mass driver rounds so he isn't OHK.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5274	Posted - 2015.03.09 08:52:00 - [89] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: KA24DERT wrote: Plasma Cannon is anti shield. It wouldn't be the same thing. By that logic we should go back to just having the AR, but that's besides the point. Because the natural weapon of Assault Rifle, Scrambler Rifle, Rail Rifle, and Combat rifle are all different? If you want to have a variant with multiple weaker shots of the Plasma Cannon, sure. But the nature of weapon in terms of AV is highly dependent upon it's high alpha damage. Are you saying we should make it less effective against vehicles because you don't like getting 1-shotted as an infantry? It wouldn't necessarily be less effective. You can modify direct damage, rounds per clip, reload, and time between shots to strike a balance. It's also possible to preserve the current Plasma Cannon, but I would like that variant to have low efficiency against infantry to prevent most insta-kills. I'm not saying that AV should be less effective against vehicles. This whole thread is about reducing AV alpha damage against infantry specifically. You ....don't use Plasma Cannons all that much do you? Because the kinds of changes you're proposing (Because apparently you feel that Plasma Cannon kills on infantry are rampant enough to merit a change) would indeed make them less effective in the kinds of AV roles they fill. facepalm Just nevermind, I give up. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 1101	Posted - 2015.03.09 10:09:00 - [90] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: KA24DERT wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: KA24DERT wrote: Plasma Cannon is anti shield. It wouldn't be the same thing. By that logic we should go back to just having the AR, but that's besides the point. Because the natural weapon of Assault Rifle, Scrambler Rifle, Rail Rifle, and Combat rifle are all different? If you want to have a variant with multiple weaker shots of the Plasma Cannon, sure. But the nature of weapon in terms of AV is highly dependent upon it's high alpha damage. Are you saying we should make it less effective against vehicles because you don't like getting 1-shotted as an infantry? It wouldn't necessarily be less effective. You can modify direct damage, rounds per clip, reload, and time between shots to strike a balance. It's also possible to preserve the current Plasma Cannon, but I would like that variant to have low efficiency against infantry to prevent most insta-kills. I'm not saying that AV should be less effective against vehicles. This whole thread is about reducing AV alpha damage against infantry specifically. You ....don't use Plasma Cannons all that much do you? Because the kinds of changes you're proposing (Because apparently you feel that Plasma Cannon kills on infantry are rampant enough to merit a change) would indeed make them less effective in the kinds of AV roles they fill. facepalm Just nevermind, I give up. It's clear we have very different views on how the game works and I'm not going to bicker. I would however love to see you try to land multiple 3-4 consecutive railgun or plasma cannon shots onto a moving infantry, before they kill you. I use the plasma cannon every day. I could give you some long spiel about how hard it is to use, how much skill is involved, but it's irrelevant, ultimately myself and others are popping people in one hit on a regular basis. But this argument is boiling down into 2 camps: 1) The Low TTK instagib camp 2) The High TTK no instagib camp If you swing one way or the other you can achieve your desired dynamic with all sorts of mechanic changes. The core disagreement is over TTK. You guys think instant deaths are crucial to fun game design, and I think it's more fun to have drawn out brawls with time to react. I'll let the player retention speak for itself on that. But yeah, of course, if you like low ttk and instagibs, this thread is a hilarious heresy to you. BAN ADVANCED GEAR FROM PUBS \| Mass Driver Advocate



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