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True Adamance
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Posted - 2015.03.04 21:26:00 -
[1] - Quote
Uh how do you propose to explain why a tank turret did less damage to your clone?
Moreover why does a KE rounds like a Rail Rifle slug do full damage against and infantry man but a significantly larger calibre slug like an 80gj Railgun rounds not kill you outright.
Assuming the 80Gj rounds function like the EVE Javelin Rounds with their graviton pulse detonators Railgun rounds are smart rounds and to some extend must carry a small payload.... just be glad CCP never implmented the Iridium Flechette that were supposed to come with that.
"This is the Usumgal boy, the exalted dragon, wreathed in the fires of heaven. He is a true symbol of God's majesty."
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True Adamance
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Posted - 2015.03.04 22:25:00 -
[2] - Quote
KA24DERT wrote:True Adamance wrote:Uh how do you propose to explain why a tank turret did less damage to your clone?
Moreover why does a KE rounds like a Rail Rifle slug do full damage against and infantry man but a significantly larger calibre slug like an 80gj Railgun rounds not kill you outright.
I can explain it like this: because it's an unbalanced and frustrating mechanic. But if you need someone to heisenberg-compensate this away, you can say that the rail slugs are are energized with plasma that is specifically tailored to delaminate metallic armor, and is thrown off the large biological composition of dropsuits. Also nanites.
Why bother with a specific kind of technology that deliberately limits your weapons destructive potential when existing examples are present that do not require this kind of modification?
"This is the Usumgal boy, the exalted dragon, wreathed in the fires of heaven. He is a true symbol of God's majesty."
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True Adamance
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Posted - 2015.03.04 23:38:00 -
[3] - Quote
KA24DERT wrote:True Adamance wrote:KA24DERT wrote:True Adamance wrote:Uh how do you propose to explain why a tank turret did less damage to your clone?
Moreover why does a KE rounds like a Rail Rifle slug do full damage against and infantry man but a significantly larger calibre slug like an 80gj Railgun rounds not kill you outright.
I can explain it like this: because it's an unbalanced and frustrating mechanic. But if you need someone to heisenberg-compensate this away, you can say that the rail slugs are are energized with plasma that is specifically tailored to delaminate metallic armor, and is thrown off the large biological composition of dropsuits. Also nanites. Why bother with a specific kind of technology that deliberately limits your weapons destructive potential when existing examples are present that do not require this kind of modification? Because video game rules can be arbitrary but should submit to FUN. Also nanites.
Fun for you but not me or any vehicle pilots who already are relying on either luck due to dispersion or accuracy which you want to punish them for having by removing their killing power.
How do you justify compromising my enjoyment of a specific role that functions similarly throughout the entire gaming genre.
Aka- I shoot you with a tank round you die.
(( I've seen his other threads. I have me my pile of salt right here))
"This is the Usumgal boy, the exalted dragon, wreathed in the fires of heaven. He is a true symbol of God's majesty."
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True Adamance
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Posted - 2015.03.04 23:52:00 -
[4] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:
I really don't think you should take the OP seriously. You know this is the guy who wanted to remove strafing from the game....
As I said..... I have my grain... or bag of salt. What is a pain is not the OP but the idiots who'll inevitably latch on to the idea as if it were actually worth the time of day.
"This is the Usumgal boy, the exalted dragon, wreathed in the fires of heaven. He is a true symbol of God's majesty."
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True Adamance
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Posted - 2015.03.05 00:45:00 -
[5] - Quote
KA24DERT wrote:
I justify it by telling you to get into a tank with a Blaster or Missile turret.
The Blaster and Missile Launcher aren't even tank turrets. Just a **** poor attempt at a .50 Calibre Machine Gun and a pair dumb fire....what I suppose should be surface to air missiles.
"This is the Usumgal boy, the exalted dragon, wreathed in the fires of heaven. He is a true symbol of God's majesty."
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True Adamance
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Posted - 2015.03.05 22:49:00 -
[6] - Quote
Not to mention I've asked for long range single shot, slight arc HAV turrets or multi-shot plasma cannon turrets in place of the current blaster but Rattati isn't having any of it.
"This is the Usumgal boy, the exalted dragon, wreathed in the fires of heaven. He is a true symbol of God's majesty."
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True Adamance
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Posted - 2015.03.05 23:08:00 -
[7] - Quote
KA24DERT wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:KA24DERT wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:KA24DERT wrote:
I'm sure it requires skill to rail snipe, but those skills are prevalent, and the reality is that there's rail tankers sniping infantry in every other match, and doing so effectively.
I've seen rail gunners hit moving targets, and many of my deaths are on the move horizontally to the tank. But even assuming that ALL rail turret kills are against horizontally still targets, this is still a problem as there are many vital chokepoints (like hack panels) that generate those types of targets, and a single direct hit will kill most dropsuits.
The same argument could be made that skilled players can consistently kill infantry in 1 shot with a Plasma Cannon. Do you have an issue with that as well? Additionally a Sniper is more than capable of dominating a choke point as well, do you have an issue with that? The skill and luck required to land a plasma cannon shot at range are in a different league compared to a rail turret. If some of the same constraints (projectile speed, range, arc, reload) were applied to Rails, sniping infantry with rails would be much less prevalent, and Blaster turrets would fill the AI niche in a much more sane way. But besides that I've mentioned before that I'd be happy with a 4-shot plasma cannon with reduced damage for the very reason you illustrate. Also most snipers need 2-3 hits to kill a dropsuit, so not really comparable when the BASE rail turret is a one shot kill with no damage modifiers. Snipers can control a choke point sure, but Rails absolutely dominate them. Except rails DO have constraints, as I listed above. Not the exact same constraints as the PLC, but they're there. The fact remains that you're literally aiming at a couple pixels on the screen and the hit detection on it is dubious at best. It is not easy to consistently hit people with the large railgun, and saying "skill is OP" really isn't a valid argument. The PLC has almost every constraint you listed, sometimes a worse constraint. Zoom: -1 to PLC, it has NO zoom
Rotation: +1 to PLC, no turn limit
Charge: 0, equal constraint, PLC can't hold charge either.
Travel Time: -1, PLC travels much slower
Splash: +1 to PLC, has splash
Hit Glitch: 0, PLC has the same issue with direct hits
In addition, the PLC user:
Is not in a 5k HP tank
Has LESS range than a Rail
Needs to adjust for arc
Has a MUCH longer time between shots.
Again though, my preferred PLC is a 4 shot weapon with less damage because I don't think insta-kills are a good mechanic. Either way, those few limitations on the Rail are not enough of a skill barrier to prevent the current reality, but instead of adding more restrictions ala PLC, I'd rather preserve the rail's effectiveness against vehicles and just curb it's usage against infantry with a damage modifier.
Consider also as negatives of the Railgun
- Tracking Speeds
- Elevation of Depression [ depending on the tank you can't even aim down]
- Overheat and Cooldown
- Limited weapon to HAV
- Also has charge up time
- Tiny Splash Radius
"This is the Usumgal boy, the exalted dragon, wreathed in the fires of heaven. He is a true symbol of God's majesty."
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True Adamance
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17527
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Posted - 2015.03.09 10:24:00 -
[8] - Quote
KA24DERT wrote:
I use the plasma cannon every day. I could give you some long spiel about how hard it is to use, how much skill is involved, but it's irrelevant, ultimately myself and others are popping people in one hit on a regular basis.
But this argument is boiling down into 2 camps:
1) The Low TTK instagib camp
2) The High TTK no instagib camp
If you swing one way or the other you can achieve your desired dynamic with all sorts of mechanic changes.
The core disagreement is over TTK. You guys think instant deaths are crucial to fun game design, and I think it's more fun to have drawn out brawls with time to react.
I'll let the player retention speak for itself on that.
But yeah, of course, if you like low ttk and instagibs, this thread is a hilarious heresy to you.
That's a poor generalisation as I believe in certain circumstances Low TTK makes for good mechanics while in other not so good.
"This is the Usumgal boy, the exalted dragon, wreathed in the fires of heaven. He is a true symbol of God's majesty."
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