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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
17527
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Posted - 2015.03.09 10:24:00 -
[91] - Quote
KA24DERT wrote:
I use the plasma cannon every day. I could give you some long spiel about how hard it is to use, how much skill is involved, but it's irrelevant, ultimately myself and others are popping people in one hit on a regular basis.
But this argument is boiling down into 2 camps:
1) The Low TTK instagib camp
2) The High TTK no instagib camp
If you swing one way or the other you can achieve your desired dynamic with all sorts of mechanic changes.
The core disagreement is over TTK. You guys think instant deaths are crucial to fun game design, and I think it's more fun to have drawn out brawls with time to react.
I'll let the player retention speak for itself on that.
But yeah, of course, if you like low ttk and instagibs, this thread is a hilarious heresy to you.
That's a poor generalisation as I believe in certain circumstances Low TTK makes for good mechanics while in other not so good.
"This is the Usumgal boy, the exalted dragon, wreathed in the fires of heaven. He is a true symbol of God's majesty."
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
5274
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Posted - 2015.03.09 11:12:00 -
[92] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:KA24DERT wrote:
I use the plasma cannon every day. I could give you some long spiel about how hard it is to use, how much skill is involved, but it's irrelevant, ultimately myself and others are popping people in one hit on a regular basis.
But this argument is boiling down into 2 camps:
1) The Low TTK instagib camp
2) The High TTK no instagib camp
If you swing one way or the other you can achieve your desired dynamic with all sorts of mechanic changes.
The core disagreement is over TTK. You guys think instant deaths are crucial to fun game design, and I think it's more fun to have drawn out brawls with time to react.
I'll let the player retention speak for itself on that.
But yeah, of course, if you like low ttk and instagibs, this thread is a hilarious heresy to you.
That's a poor generalisation as I believe in certain circumstances Low TTK makes for good mechanics while in other not so good.
Im curious to see how many shots it should take for a shotgun to kill someone. 5 or 6 maybe?
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
3049
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Posted - 2015.03.09 14:58:00 -
[93] - Quote
KA24DERT wrote:Kain Spero wrote:KA24DERT wrote:I think it's time we admit that Rails and Forges are too effective at sniping infantry.
I can't think of any other AV weapon in the game that doubles as an AI weapon in a MORE deadly capacity than it's AV role. The current balance is as silly as letting rifles do 100% damage against vehicles, with the added frustration that these "AV" weapons kill infantry in one hit.
I propose that the efficiency of the Rail turret be reduced to 20% against infantry, reducing the damage for the base railgun turret from 1395 damage to 195.75 damage. And for that matter, they can get their splash damage bumped to 100.
A similar reduction for the forge reduces damage from 1200 to 180 damage.
I think these are much more sane values and will improve gameplay via reduction of frustrating deaths. I actually think that reducing the prevalence of one-hit kill weapons in the game would actually be beneficial. Also I think the approach of reduced direct hit damage while adding back splash so these weapons can be suppressive would be a balanced way to reduce the direct damage to infantry. Not sure about the specific numbers, but I think the idea has merit. That's my gist. Most of the insta-gibs should go away or be restricted. - Plasma Cannon should be a 3-4 shot weapon with lower overall damage (the jump buff will bring this to the forefront...) - REs should be re-tooled into a trap-only weapon (requiring placement and a 5 second initialization) - Rails and Forges shouldn't be able to 1-shot infantry (but splash should be added to let them still kill/suppress) etc... You're pointing to a more holistic rebalance, but getting the conversation started on "nerfs" is always rough, even when it's painfully obvious. I wish more tankers/forgers would come up with better numbers for what's fair against infantry, but so far it appears that "fair" is 1200 damage.
"What's fair against infantry?"
Infantry have been coming up with "fair" numbers for vehicles for 3+ years. Where are we now? Expensive coffins that require extensive experience to make work properly, with AV so powerful that they could contend with a small moon devastating a planet.
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
3049
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Posted - 2015.03.09 15:04:00 -
[94] - Quote
KA24DERT wrote:try, in fact I think it's ok for rails and forges to kill infantry with 3-4 rounds of splash, or 2 direct hits, or a combination thereof.
The idea isn't to remove the ability to hit infantry, it's to remove the ability to kill infantry with no warning.
So then let's remove REs and warbarge strikes completely. Take out the squish damage from vehicles dropping on heads completely, whether it be from a dropship squishing a red or a just-called-in vehicle squishing a friendly. Let's take out all alpha damage weapons, which would be the plasma and forge. Sniper too, because they're just annoying. Bolt pistol is incredibly powerful too, so let's take that out for good measure.
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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MRBH1997
Knights Of Ender
RISE of LEGION
175
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Posted - 2015.03.09 16:50:00 -
[95] - Quote
Yeahhhhhh no. Would make nonsense if a scout couldn't get 1 shotted by either of those weapons. It takes skill to hit someone with those weapons, especially a moving target. What, you gonna claim a nerf against one shot sniper rifles next? And usually when I see people sniped by these weapons, they are being stupid and peeking over cover in front of said weapon hoping to get a kill and duck before said weapon user targets them. Or when they think hacking a console with forge coverage is smart even afte te 10th attempt.
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