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[Veteran_iwillrock yourworld]
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Posted - 2012.05.30 16:32:00 -
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Please work on reducing the use of straffing, circling and jumping as a option to evade bullets.
Make the gunfights more realistic in regards of player movements, and therefore enforce a less rushed gameplay.
Strafing should be slower, circling should affect accuracy in a bad way, and jumping should forbid shooting and each jump be lesser i height/speed due like to stamina being used. |
[Veteran_PUT-PROTOMAN-IN GAME]
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Posted - 2012.05.30 16:37:00 -
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iwillrock yourworld wrote: Please work on reducing the use of straffing, circling and jumping as a option to evade bullets.
Make the gunfights more realistic in regards of player movements, and therefore enforce a less rushed gameplay.
Strafing should be slower, circling should affect accuracy in a bad way, and jumping should forbid shooting and each jump be lesser i height/speed due like to stamina being used.
You must not win gun fights.....
I don't want DUST to be like battlefield or COD (primarily ADS shooters in which people camp from fixed positions for kills) DUST as it stands is actually about having gun game and strafing is a part of having gun game. Learn to strafe and hit a moving target. Jumping/strafing has already been nerfed significantly since last patch. |
[Veteran_iwillrock yourworld]
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Posted - 2012.05.30 16:50:00 -
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It all comes down to game style, but I disagree and think a more realistic game makes a better shooter experience.
"You must not win gun fights..... " - This has no bearing in the conversation. |
[Veteran_RolyatDerTeufel]
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Posted - 2012.05.30 16:53:00 -
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iwillrock yourworld wrote: Please work on reducing the use of straffing, circling and jumping as a option to evade bullets.
Make the gunfights more realistic in regards of player movements, and therefore enforce a less rushed gameplay.
Strafing should be slower, circling should affect accuracy in a bad way, and jumping should forbid shooting and each jump be lesser i height/speed due like to stamina being used.
I use that all the time with upgraded scout fits against heavies and have a hard time. Some assaults give me even more hassle cause of the right tanking with shields or armor with a bit of speed.
Although I like the quick battles they have for these highsec contracts. one thing, allowing a group to accept one side of the contract to fight together would work to slow the battle down somewhat to help cover the HAV's LAV's either to destroy or hack objectives, squad orders, etc
Also, final blast on a destructible installation should not be only one to get destroyed points allow it to not be a chance you get final hit on it and get points, those involved in damaging armor ( structure ) should get points for assist or something of the sort. |
[Veteran_Ziemusu Danieru]
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Posted - 2012.05.30 16:55:00 -
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I personally hate the more "realistic" shooters. There are plenty of them out there, so go play those if that's what you want. DUST is a sci fi shooter based in a sci fi universe, and therefore should lean more towards making the game fun for everyone and not just the FPS elite. |
[Veteran_PUT-PROTOMAN-IN GAME]
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Posted - 2012.05.30 17:01:00 -
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iwillrock yourworld wrote:It all comes down to game style, but I disagree and think a more realistic game makes a better shooter experience.
"You must not win gun fights..... " - This has no bearing in the conversation.
actually it does have bearing in this conversation. You are saying "people move too fast I can't get kills. CCP slow the game down so i can get kills too."
This is exactly why most games are utter crap now. Devs dumb the game down for people. CCP shouldn't have to dumb dust down, because some people can't hit a moving target and feel the only way to get a kill is being in a fixed position ADSing.
If you want a realistic shooter go play americas army. The gunplay in DUST is what will give it character in a sea of other shooters. |
[Veteran_havok]
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Posted - 2012.05.30 17:26:00 -
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PUT-PROTOMAN-IN GAME wrote:The gunplay in DUST is what will give it character in a sea of other shooters.
Between this, the skilling system, the fitting system and the (god I hope so) effect DUST will have on sov space ... this game is NOTHING like any other shooter.
I agree with Protoman; the last damned thing we need to do is lower the bar and water it down so that it's just like every other shooter out there...
Speed and mobility have to mean something, or we may as well all roll heavies. |
[Veteran_Mavado V Noriega]
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Posted - 2012.05.30 17:35:00 -
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agree with proto ppl have a hard time killing ppl now because they dont know how to deal with the poor hit detection in this build the amount of shots ppl take to die isnt that big and once hit detection is fixed u will see alot less instances where 2 ppl shoot miss and reload strafe then start again.
And like Proto said the gunplay in DUST will give it its character. Dunno why ppl want to make a "realistic" game when technically DUST isnt based on a realistic universe/setting
Jumpin has already taken a big hit along with strafing before alot of u guys even got in the beta |
[Veteran_Khazra Khali'un]
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Posted - 2012.05.30 17:45:00 -
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I think once the hit detection is better / in and the lag goes down the dancing won't be as drastic. Using speed and transversal velocity to your advantage really help to flesh this game out if you ask me, and allows for a much more furious pace of combat. I'm a fuckin scrapper, I constantly survive on 1% and even 0% health, racking up kill after kill in my blood rage just by moving smart and keeping track of my enemies positions and patterns.
Yea, I think it's pretty good right now, just need that hit detection or whatever it is, I think that would help smooth a lot of it out |
[Veteran_Kiyo Sohma]
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Posted - 2012.05.30 18:19:00 -
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The whole idea of this game, assuming it is like eve, is that it is realistic. It don't all suits ideas should be to run and gun, this game is not a single player game and it shouldn't be like the rogue in wow, in who can mash the most weapons. As well slowing down gun fights is completely different then dumbing it down. There needs to be more tactics than shoot as many bullets as possible and move as much as possible. I do think that the scout drop suit should be a speed tanker, specialized in less bullet spreed while running jumping moving. Where as a heavy suit should drastically be disabled by moving while shooting, and be slower while shooting.
We don't want another run and gun, we want to make it more difficult in the fact that if you don't stick with your squad, you are going to die... a lot. The idea isn't k/d its how good you work as a team.
Though currently the hit marker is horrendous. Mainly because of lag, which should be fixed. |
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[Veteran_Mavado V Noriega]
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Posted - 2012.05.30 18:51:00 -
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Kiyo Sohma wrote:The whole idea of this game, assuming it is like eve, is that it is realistic. It don't all suits ideas should be to run and gun, this game is not a single player game and it shouldn't be like the rogue in wow, in who can mash the most weapons. As well slowing down gun fights is completely different then dumbing it down. There needs to be more tactics than shoot as many bullets as possible and move as much as possible. I do think that the scout drop suit should be a speed tanker, specialized in less bullet spreed while running jumping moving. Where as a heavy suit should drastically be disabled by moving while shooting, and be slower while shooting.
We don't want another run and gun, we want to make it more difficult in the fact that if you don't stick with your squad, you are going to die... a lot. The idea isn't k/d its how good you work as a team.
Though currently the hit marker is horrendous. Mainly because of lag, which should be fixed.
1. U are playing with random grps of players and expect tactics and teamwork?
2. What makes u think the game doesnt take tactics? all team based games take tactics, yall need to stop judging on a pub lvl and realise when organised grps get into play u will see alot of tactics, the only difference is that it will actually require some SKILL and not just a position based shooter where ppl just sit in certain spots not moving and holding ADS all the time, which is why heath should NOT be touched at all btw.
3. apparently u dont get how slowing down gameplay makes it actually easier to track targets and thus resulting in easier kills. Idk how many games u have played in the beta but alot of ppl that dont stick with their squads die alot but this is also a pub setting with unorganised teams so u also find skilled players who know how to flank and play positions also coming out on top in certain situations which wont be much of a problem if you are playing in actual corp battles unless your team sucks
4. This game isnt about K/D imho. Not from a corp battle perspective anyway, just looking at all the tools we currently have and what we are gonna get its gonna be a game that is heavily based on teamwork more so than any other game out there atm sooo idk where u think that corp battles will be about kd and not about how good u work as a team.
5. The current gun mechanics currently also promote SKILL as well as TEAMWORK. When hit detection is fixed and actual party system gets put in the beta u will see how even 1 organised squad will roll randoms all day, just imagine when we get corp battles how a 24v24 battle will play out. Skill + teamwork is a winning formula dunno why ppl wanna take away the skill portion of the game which comes in the ability for a player to aim and track targets as well as avoid hits himself and outsmarting his opponent. |
[Veteran_Kiyo Sohma]
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Posted - 2012.05.30 19:05:00 -
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Currently: 1. Yes I am playing with random groups of people and did get some help from them to actually use tactics, just not often.
2. Actually i do need to judge on a PR level... cause that's what we are doing for this BETA test, hence why we are BETA testers
3. Slowing down game play would make it easier to aim that is true, at the same time would make it more realistic which is why Eve is such a strong game.
4. Currently yes it is all based off of K/D, hate to say it again (Most of these numbered bullets seem to be talking about the same thing) but its not a corp battle perspective. And it may in the future (undeniably true) be more of a team based game. Currently my team consists of me and my gun, possibly a random stranger that passes by.
5. Another when this happens... or imagine when...
SO basically what you are saying is I should judge the game with how I think CCP is going to do it, as opposed to the way it is now. Im sorry Im just following their instructions and giving them feed back on the beta that I played, not thinking about what the beta could be in the future.
Honestly i found more tactics in BF3, I will give you the benefit of the doubt and say yes, when we get corp battles then my opinion may change, you have a lot of image when this, and image when that... how bout instead of imagining, we actually do what they ask and give them our Input. |
[Veteran_SILENTSAM 69]
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Posted - 2012.05.30 19:17:00 -
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No in every way. This is the only way for the scout suit people to survive. We have very low HP and have to stay mobile to stay alive.
Its funny to see threads where people whine about people being able to have better skills than them. This is one of the things that balances powerful guns.
Some people want big guns in a heavy suit, others want small guns in a fast suit.
As for the realism thing people need to understand these are super soldiers who are engineered to fight. They are in powerful suits that give them abilities regular people would not have.
The whole point of Sci Fi shooters is to go beyond what regular people can do in their gun game. |
[Veteran_Kiyo Sohma]
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Posted - 2012.05.30 19:22:00 -
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Quote:I do think that the scout drop suit should be a speed tanker, specialized in less bullet spreed while running jumping moving. Where as a heavy suit should drastically be disabled by moving while shooting, and be slower while shooting.
I totally agree, but jumping around and running in circles should not be every classes main defense. Just like in EVE you don't see battleships trying to speed tank. |
[Veteran_PUT-PROTOMAN-IN GAME]
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Posted - 2012.05.30 19:26:00 -
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Kiyo Sohma wrote:Quote:I do think that the scout drop suit should be a speed tanker, specialized in less bullet spreed while running jumping moving. Where as a heavy suit should drastically be disabled by moving while shooting, and be slower while shooting. I totally agree, but jumping around and running in circles should not be every classes main defense. Just like in EVE you don't see battleships trying to speed tank.
i'm against dumbing the game down by slowing it down. Strafing is something found in most shooters that require skill. If you want to ADS for kills go play COD. |
[Veteran_Kiyo Sohma]
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Posted - 2012.05.30 19:44:00 -
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So we should allow a heavy to jump around and dodge bullets because he is in a space age suit... Read before you post, We aren't saying get ride of strafing or even that it shouldn't be a viable tactic. We are saying it shouldn't be the only tactic in the game. There should be more than one game style. Camping, Strafing, Run and Gunning, Heavy Gunning, Suppressing, ADS, and more are all viable game plays as they should be.
If your tactic is to run around in circles shooting as many bullets as you can then do that, but don't try and make that everyones tactic or say that it is the better tactic. If it was the better tactic that's what we would use in the military.
I love that you say go play COD when all COD is is strafing and nading. |
[Veteran_Gelan]
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Posted - 2012.05.30 20:42:00 -
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I still don't see how standing and being shot is in anyway "realistic" . For any normal non deer in headlights person every instinct would be yelling at them to DODGE ! We're not playing patty cake were fighting a damn war ! |
[Veteran_Xocoyol Zaraoul]
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Posted - 2012.05.30 20:47:00 -
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Gelan wrote:I still don't see how standing and being shot is in anyway "realistic" . For any normal non deer in headlights person every instinct would be yelling at them to DODGE ! We're not playing patty cake were fighting a damn war !
So fighting realistically, we would be taking potshots then, with very sporadic fire, from cover and rarely moving from said cover? That is modern day urban warfare 90% of the time. |
[Veteran_Gelan]
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Posted - 2012.05.30 20:51:00 -
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Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote:
So fighting realistically, we would be taking potshots then, with very sporadic fire, from cover and rarely moving from said cover? That is modern day urban warfare 90% of the time.
Real life we don't have back up clones . So yes we can afford to be a litlle more reckless .. that doesn't mean fight stupid . |
[Veteran_Chilled Pill]
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Posted - 2012.05.30 20:55:00 -
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First off, Dust is a sci-fi game, so why force your military simulation realism box on it? You have personal force fields for crying out loud!
Which brings me to my second point; any FPS game where people don't instantly die when you put 1-3 bullets in them will definitely involve a lot of strafing, jumping, (duck diving if going prone is enabled), bunny hopping, jumping over the bad guy and using your 100% sensitivity to spin around and circle him faster while he tries to track you with his 35% sensitivity etc. And guess what, Dust is such a game because well, 'You have personal force fields for crying out loud!'
I leave this one to the Devs, they have a vision of a game that Dust should be, I appreciate how they listen to our input, it's just dangerous if they start listening to every person who has a 'genius' idea on how to change the game to compensate for what they lack in skill, cunning, teamwork, what have you. Unless it's a game breaker on a fundamental level across the board, leave it be. |
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[Veteran_Oede Usaema]
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Posted - 2012.05.30 21:46:00 -
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Don't like strafing fights? well then make sure things don't get that far.
Go flank a few turret dudes, run up a hillside and shoot snipers in the back, do a bit of sharpshooting with the assault rifle at the inevitable blob of idiots standing on the edges of the cliffs defending point A, get on a heavy and pin some dudes behind boxes while a buddy flanks, figure out that landscape and cover can actually plays a huge part in gunfights and just because we don't have an easy snap-to button doesn't stop you from using it to great effect. The tactics are already there in the game, just try using them. |
[Veteran_FatalFlaw V1]
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Posted - 2012.05.30 22:01:00 -
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"Reduce strafing.." Absolutely not.
This game isn't "real" as in meant to mirror real life. The gear and weapons are future based.
If you want movement nerfed you better just delete the scout and assault classes. Give everyone heavy armor and call it a day.
I like having builds that allow you to optimize for movement or tank. Even the scout can only jump two times before the stam runs out.
Maybe part of the problem is with hit boxes and server lag, poor code etc...which made it so you had to shoot in front of a moving target in order to hit them. Supposedly its being fixed.
I agree with previous posters who said it dumbs down the game when nobody can move and shoot. Anyone who wants movement nerfed is obviously favoring a heavy build or sniper and want to reduce the primary survivability advantage the scout suit grants.. |
[Veteran_Enervating]
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Posted - 2012.05.30 22:13:00 -
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iwillrock yourworld wrote: Please work on reducing the use of straffing, circling and jumping as a option to evade bullets.
Make the gunfights more realistic in regards of player movements, and therefore enforce a less rushed gameplay.
Strafing should be slower, circling should affect accuracy in a bad way, and jumping should forbid shooting and each jump be lesser i height/speed due like to stamina being used.
Perhaps while they are at it they can go ahead serve tea, as we will all be sitting and playing patty-cake in this new futuristic Hello Kitty non shooting game...
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[Veteran_PUT-PROTOMAN-IN GAME]
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Posted - 2012.05.30 22:25:00 -
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Kiyo Sohma wrote:So we should allow a heavy to jump around and dodge bullets because he is in a space age suit... Read before you post, We aren't saying get ride of strafing or even that it shouldn't be a viable tactic. We are saying it shouldn't be the only tactic in the game. There should be more than one game style. Camping, Strafing, Run and Gunning, Heavy Gunning, Suppressing, ADS, and more are all viable game plays as they should be.
If your tactic is to run around in circles shooting as many bullets as you can then do that, but don't try and make that everyones tactic or say that it is the better tactic. If it was the better tactic that's what we would use in the military.
I love that you say go play COD when all COD is is strafing and nading.
You can't jump around in a heavy suit. The turn speeds are already slow, and CCP is making them turn even slower in a future update.
If you want to be competitive you are going to have to learn to strafe. All the competitive players will be strafing. Sitting in ADS will only get you killed. When you are stationary in DUST chances are you'll die. It's usually how it works, or at least when I see a stationary player.
BTW you must not know what strafing is if you happen to think strafing is a part of Call of Duty. Most kills in COD are primarily made by ADS. COD games are low health and high damage. Also the maps are tiny, promote camping, and choking out the enemy team by manipulating spawn points by controlling half of the map.
Dust like RFoM, MAG, and Killzone 2 promote strafing. Strafers are high health and low bullet damage shooters. Rather than relying on ADS most good players are going to hipfire and strafe left and right to win a gun fight. |
[Veteran_SILENTSAM 69]
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Posted - 2012.05.30 23:10:00 -
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Chilled Pill wrote:First off, Dust is a sci-fi game, so why force your military simulation realism box on it? You have personal force fields for crying out loud!
Which brings me to my second point; any FPS game where people don't instantly die when you put 1-3 bullets in them will definitely involve a lot of strafing, jumping, (duck diving if going prone is enabled), bunny hopping, jumping over the bad guy and using your 100% sensitivity to spin around and circle him faster while he tries to track you with his 35% sensitivity etc. And guess what, Dust is such a game because well, 'You have personal force fields for crying out loud!'
I leave this one to the Devs, they have a vision of a game that Dust should be, I appreciate how they listen to our input, it's just dangerous if they start listening to every person who has a 'genius' idea on how to change the game to compensate for what they lack in skill, cunning, teamwork, what have you. Unless it's a game breaker on a fundamental level across the board, leave it be. ^ This |
[Veteran_Khulam]
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Posted - 2012.05.30 23:33:00 -
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Kiyo Sohma wrote:
I love that you say go play COD when all COD is is strafing and nading.
Truth.....
Strafing may be an existing mechanic, but just because this is a console shooter does not mean that the only viable tactic should be strafing. Strafing is not a game design, it is a tactic used as a result of being unable to achieve precision aiming on a target. I know this because on Friday I was strafing just to live long enough to get used to controls, by Sunday I didn't need to strafe anymore. When your opponent as the ability to track you well strafing has absolutely no effect on them, only you and your accuracy suffer from strafing at that point.
While I think it should at least have a slight acceleration, in the end it wont matter once controllers like KBM and the Sharpshooter get support, most of us complaining about it are KBM people or general controller noobs. I very rarely played my PS3 up until I got into this beta, and even I was able to track strafing targets pretty easily by the last day of the test.
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[Veteran_Kiyo Sohma]
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Posted - 2012.05.30 23:45:00 -
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Cool, I guess as has been stated before that CCP has already decided to reduce it so it seems they saw the problem with it already. |
[Veteran_Ignatius Crumwald]
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Posted - 2012.05.30 23:48:00 -
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Well, strafing does need to be slower than forward movement by some degree, it's not natural looking at all. I know game =/= real life but we can't just have humans scooting around like office chairs. |
[Veteran_iwillrock yourworld]
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Posted - 2012.05.30 23:48:00 -
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Gelan wrote:I still don't see how standing and being shot is in anyway "realistic" . For any normal non deer in headlights person every instinct would be yelling at them to DODGE ! We're not playing patty cake were fighting a damn war !
Thats what cover, vehicle support and supression fire is for.
And dodging, really, are we Neo encarnations? |
[Veteran_MUDMASTEI2]
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Posted - 2012.05.31 00:00:00 -
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Kiyo Sohma wrote:I love that you say go play COD when all COD is is strafing
CoD has no strafing at all. I can tell you haven't played much CoD. |
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