Please work on reducing the use of straffing, circling and jumping as a option to evade bullets.

Make the gunfights more realistic in regards of player movements, and therefore enforce a less rushed gameplay.

Strafing should be slower, circling should affect accuracy in a bad way, and jumping should forbid shooting and each jump be lesser i height/speed due like to stamina being used.

Please work on reducing the use of straffing, circling and jumping as a option to evade bullets.

Make the gunfights more realistic in regards of player movements, and therefore enforce a less rushed gameplay.

Strafing should be slower, circling should affect accuracy in a bad way, and jumping should forbid shooting and each jump be lesser i height/speed due like to stamina being used.

It all comes down to game style, but I disagree and think a more realistic game makes a better shooter experience.

"You must not win gun fights..... " - This has no bearing in the conversation.

The gunplay in DUST is what will give it character in a sea of other shooters.

The whole idea of this game, assuming it is like eve, is that it is realistic. It don't all suits ideas should be to run and gun, this game is not a single player game and it shouldn't be like the rogue in wow, in who can mash the most weapons. As well slowing down gun fights is completely different then dumbing it down. There needs to be more tactics than shoot as many bullets as possible and move as much as possible. I do think that the scout drop suit should be a speed tanker, specialized in less bullet spreed while running jumping moving. Where as a heavy suit should drastically be disabled by moving while shooting, and be slower while shooting.

We don't want another run and gun, we want to make it more difficult in the fact that if you don't stick with your squad, you are going to die... a lot. The idea isn't k/d its how good you work as a team.

Though currently the hit marker is horrendous. Mainly because of lag, which should be fixed.

I do think that the scout drop suit should be a speed tanker, specialized in less bullet spreed while running jumping moving. Where as a heavy suit should drastically be disabled by moving while shooting, and be slower while shooting.

I totally agree, but jumping around and running in circles should not be every classes main defense. Just like in EVE you don't see battleships trying to speed tank.

I still don't see how standing and being shot is in anyway "realistic" . For any normal non deer in headlights person every instinct would be yelling at them to DODGE ! We're not playing patty cake were fighting a damn war !

So fighting realistically, we would be taking potshots then, with very sporadic fire, from cover and rarely moving from said cover? That is modern day urban warfare 90% of the time.

Please work on reducing the use of straffing, circling and jumping as a option to evade bullets.

Make the gunfights more realistic in regards of player movements, and therefore enforce a less rushed gameplay.

Strafing should be slower, circling should affect accuracy in a bad way, and jumping should forbid shooting and each jump be lesser i height/speed due like to stamina being used.

So we should allow a heavy to jump around and dodge bullets because he is in a space age suit... Read before you post, We aren't saying get ride of strafing or even that it shouldn't be a viable tactic. We are saying it shouldn't be the only tactic in the game. There should be more than one game style. Camping, Strafing, Run and Gunning, Heavy Gunning, Suppressing, ADS, and more are all viable game plays as they should be.

If your tactic is to run around in circles shooting as many bullets as you can then do that, but don't try and make that everyones tactic or say that it is the better tactic. If it was the better tactic that's what we would use in the military.

I love that you say go play COD when all COD is is strafing and nading.

First off, Dust is a sci-fi game, so why force your military simulation realism box on it? You have personal force fields for crying out loud!

Which brings me to my second point; any FPS game where people don't instantly die when you put 1-3 bullets in them will definitely involve a lot of strafing, jumping, (duck diving if going prone is enabled), bunny hopping, jumping over the bad guy and using your 100% sensitivity to spin around and circle him faster while he tries to track you with his 35% sensitivity etc. And guess what, Dust is such a game because well, 'You have personal force fields for crying out loud!'

I leave this one to the Devs, they have a vision of a game that Dust should be, I appreciate how they listen to our input, it's just dangerous if they start listening to every person who has a 'genius' idea on how to change the game to compensate for what they lack in skill, cunning, teamwork, what have you. Unless it's a game breaker on a fundamental level across the board, leave it be.

I love that you say go play COD when all COD is is strafing and nading.

I still don't see how standing and being shot is in anyway "realistic" . For any normal non deer in headlights person every instinct would be yelling at them to DODGE ! We're not playing patty cake were fighting a damn war !

I love that you say go play COD when all COD is is strafing

Thats what cover, vehicle support and supression fire is for.

And dodging, really, are we Neo encarnations?

lolsuppression

bet u someone is gonna ask for lolbf lolsuppression mechanics next

"Reduce strafing.." Absolutely not.

This game isn't "real" as in meant to mirror real life. The gear and weapons are future based.

If you want movement nerfed you better just delete the scout and assault classes. Give everyone heavy armor and call it a day.

I like having builds that allow you to optimize for movement or tank. Even the scout can only jump two times before the stam runs out.

Maybe part of the problem is with hit boxes and server lag, poor code etc...which made it so you had to shoot in front of a moving target in order to hit them. Supposedly its being fixed.

I agree with previous posters who said it dumbs down the game when nobody can move and shoot. Anyone who wants movement nerfed is obviously favoring a heavy build or sniper and want to reduce the primary survivability advantage the scout suit grants..

Thats what cover, vehicle support and supression fire is for.

And dodging, really, are we Neo encarnations?

lolsuppression

bet u someone is gonna ask for lolbf lolsuppression mechanics next

I dare you to walk in front of my Tier 3 HMG when I'm hosing down a corridor/boxes while my Assault Teammates reload...
Try it.

Suppression mechanics already exist

i'm against dumbing the game down by slowing it down. Strafing is something found in most shooters that require skill. If you want to ADS for kills go play COD.

Yup >:D

EDIT: Also, Xocoyol, I love you for realizing that suppression has nothing to do with a blurred screen mechanic

The straffing (side to side movement) should not be the same as the foward movments speed its just dumbing the game mechanics down for players, to slow down the movement not so much foward is fine side to side is too fast and does not effect the characters accuracy at all movement backward even though i dont think its causing a issue as such it will probably have to be adjusted to round off any changes made to straffing, over the time ive played this beta my twitch and strafing skill have improved, all CQC can be boiled down to shoot start moving left, jump, start moving right, jump, reload, rince and repeat ontill one fella dies while i agree that there is some form of skill to this i dissagree strongly with how frequently it happens it should perhaps be a scout exclusive, i dont want strafing taken out i just want it so that there is a lot less luck involved in most of the cqc

^ This

+1

also to the people comparing this to other not sci-fi FPSs, the EVE-Dust universe is set 20k + years into the future therefore apples and oranges

There is a serious void in the fast-paced FPS market for the PS3. I was glad to see dust move more quickly and allow running and gunning rather than being forced into slow-motion, rigid maneuvers. Battlefield and COD both almost "force" you to ADS the entire time and avoid moving too quickly with most weapons.

Please don't turn this into another vanilla ps3 shooter. Retain as many unique elements as possible so people have a reason to buy it other than simply because they already have an eve account.

Pretty much this.

This being a sci-fi shooter has nothing to do with play style nor is a justification for a strafer. So if a game is a sci-fi its a excuse to it be silly?

War is war, whatever the year it may be, tatics wont change much and even if a soldier has a clone, well, dying still hurts. Plus, going into the future dosent mean things will progress, just look at the amarr religion and the fact minmatrar still use ducttape, lol.

A slower game forces a more tatical mind set. In this context, yeah, please Force people to have to aim before shooting. I dont think in eve universe theres self-guided ammo that would grant a strafer/cicling that dont aim and just sprays its gun a kill like in Wanted.

The true diferential of Dust is persistance. Not it being a straffer.

The gameplay I've noticed is a lot like ole BF2 close quarters, and a mix of Halo.. We don't have a prone so we can't go "dolphin diving", but the fact is the majority of the time circling, and jumping seem to be the only way to win in a gunfight.. I know there's a lack of skill as well that partakes in that but the "core" gameplay shouldn't just be a run-n-jump-n-circle type of game.. At least for a game in this era of gaming.

This is beta so we might see some changes as it goes, but as of now I have a lot of trouble shooting at range, and attempting to pick off people at long range, and so far it seems sniping and medium-range are pretty useless unless you've got a lot of ammo, and headshot aim. But that's my opinion. In terms of someones arguement earlier about this being a sci-fi shooter and not a realism shooter, then think about what EVE is.. a pretty realistic space simulation game.. all these mechanics they have in place to make you a better soldier in DUST 514 shouldn't come down to who jumps first and missing the first bullets.

Here's an example of what I think the combat should be more like, for those that have never played KZ3 Multiplayer; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEO8aRq2cLc

I would argue the jumping and circle fights would make more sense on a smaller map like those in Halo, or Call of Duty, where it makes more sense because you don't have the distance between you, but here on these large scale maps the combat needs to be different.

Just my 2 cents, but hey!

hit detection is messed up, hence ppl that dont know how to deal with it experience these jumpin, circle strafe fights atm. If u are sniping i'd suggest checking out my friend Angel's thread on sniping currently.

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19086&find=unread

Jumping pretty much doesnt save u against a good player anyway, u can only jump like twice on a full bar the ppl who have a problem with that either havent figured out the hit detection problem or just cant aim. Once hit detection and framerate are fixed expect the game to change a bit. Scout suit users who abuse these issues are the most prominent ppl that will be affected, gun fights will end alot quicker when the issues are fixed, trust me.

and kz3 really? kz3 was terrible, CCP needs to stay far away from drawing any references from a game hardcore kz fans did not even like

kz2 was alot better than kz3

I would support reducing people jumping in fights, but please keep in mind..

There are weapons in the game such as the breach assault gun that specifically give a bonus to hip fire accuracy.

I do not support turning this into a boring slow-motion shooter. I still believe much of the complaining about strafing is due to:

1)People using the heavy suit being unable to track at close range (intended)

2)Snipers having a harder time hitting people (intended)

3)People being less able to track due to personal issues with the controls (Learn to play issue)

4)The issue with hit boxes, lag, and net code requiring that you "lead" a player who is moving in order to hit them (supposed to be fixed in the future)


If #4 is fixed, the strafing will be less of an issue. Under no circumstances should a scout at very close range be unable to strafe faster than a heavy can turn. You already have to be very close to achieve this.

Any reduction of ability to strafe is going to imbalance the game further in favor of heavy armor, which already has an advantage in many situations. In an objective based game that requires rushing and close quarters combat, there should be some tactical advantage to speed. Players should not be forced to stand 15 meters apart and just shoot each other and make it a tank/dps race.

It all comes down to game style, but I disagree and think a more realistic game makes a better shooter experience.

"You must not win gun fights..... " - This has no bearing in the conversation.

+1 to this post all these people strafing an circling an talking about it shouldnt be a ADS all 1st person shooters need to be that way you shouldnt be able to circle your oppenent spraying off the hip an kill them 1 because of the hip is suppose to be less accurate 2 your not aiming this is not halo so unless your jumping off a cliff or something you shouldnt be able to just jump an shoot because you say you want a realstic shooting game well real life you dont see people jumping an strafing or circling they kinda ADS most of there targets lol so i support fixing it they need to nerf it again if they already did

yea, it's not halo, but they should take so,me notes from the game play halo 2-3 used. those were extremely popular games because of how fast paced, and arena styled they were. halo reach dumbed that down, and now look it, it has a hard time of touching 100k players at any one time, while back in the days of halo 3, it usually stayed around 300- 500K at any one time.


There are a lot of halo players that i know who are actually looking forward to this game because of how fast it is, if you slow it down, you'll be lose a lot of potential buyers


making every game realistic is a bad idea, because at some point you wont be able to tell what game you're playing because they'll all play the same.

if you put in too much realism, you'll ruin the game.

Gameplay > realism.

game play > realism. That said, i disagree with the OP.

[quote=lycan329 MUT]There are a lot of halo players that i know who are actually looking forward to this game because of how fast it is, if you slow it down, you'll be lose a lot of potential buyers


making every game realistic is a bad idea, because at some point you wont be able to tell what game you're playing because they'll all play the same.

if you put in too much realism, you'll ruin the game.

Gameplay > realism.

While I am enjoying Dust as it is, I would probably enjoy it more if it played more like a Battlefield type game where cover and teamwork is more important than how well you can aim while running in a circle. Also, the way the game plays now it bears very little resemblance to the how the game is represented in the marketing materials. They show mercs using cover and suppressing fire to advance across a battlefield. Given that there are also former Dice developers working on this players may be a bit put off when they finally get into the game and find it plays more like Quake.

[quote=iwillrock yourworld]


I don't want DUST to be like battlefield or COD (primarily ADS shooters in which people camp from fixed positions for kills) DUST as it stands is actually about having gun game and strafing is a part of having gun game. Learn to strafe and hit a moving target. Jumping/strafing has already been nerfed significantly since last patch.

While I am enjoying Dust as it is, I would probably enjoy it more if it played more like a Battlefield type game where cover and teamwork is more important than how well you can aim while running in a circle. Also, the way the game plays now it bears very little resemblance to the how the game is represented in the marketing materials. They show mercs using cover and suppressing fire to advance across a battlefield. Given that there are also former Dice developers working on this players may be a bit put off when they finally get into the game and find it plays more like Quake.

i totaly agree this type of game play gets old fast and its going to realy **** people off then your loosing gear and eve assets because of this bs

and for thous of you who say people will not play it cause its to hard GOOD!!! we dont weant retards anyways y do you think eve holds a avg player age of 27 theres no 12 year old kids for a reson i want it hard i wand to ern every kill and i dont want a nother fps exatly like the last dozen

o and you realy cant compare cod to bf3 as the same type of fps there totaly diffrent right now dust is a quake / cod combo trying to pose as bf3

That said, I dont want a total realism game. But nevertheles realism is important and right now this game plays silly.

Mechanics = realism or not realism. Realism (or not) then influences gameplay

any game developer who get thats in the wrong order has already started making a broken game. the cogs need to be in sync for a game to work.

firstly....losing potential buyers? the game is free to play :P

and secondly. Realism is the challenge. Take a game like ArmA 2. the number of people i have tried to introduce this game to because of its technical prowess, stunning graphics, realistic pacing, immersion i guess is what im trying to say here.

and people said it was "too hard".......really? a lot of the gamers of today dont like the nitty gritty of a hard game.

if anything. im fine with it. if dust were more realistic and people couldnt be bothered even learning the game to know why they dont like it (which is often the case, at which point you can often tick the "closed minded person" box next to that persons name on the xmas card list) then that means the audience that is left over to play with would be just like eve's......and meaningful one. that game has a steep as learning curve and the community who weathers out the storm of regular deaths and being victim to scams truly appreciate what eve is. EVE IS HARD! and rightfully so.

if you suck at a game. well...get better. if you dont like a game because you suck at it, having like the idea of it before trying it....thats just silly. its still the same game, it just challenges you in a different way. Realism is good. then again having a controller limit how fast you can turn around isnt realistic in itself now is it. so...watch out when the crowd for the keyboard and their mouse get to use their tools of destruction because them a lot of the haters will leave anyway.

the fidelity of a mouse will chase them and follow them to places that the controller is too slow to hide them. Then we will see who is left to truly appreciate what Dust514 can be shall we?

btw, im not raging here :P it was a good point i just thought there was a whole in the logic :)

Dust is free to play after you buy it from a store for $60


As of right now, if you were not able to move as fast as you could, no one would be able to kill ANYONE. Why? because as soon as your shields drop, you would dodge behind cover and wait for it to recharge, the shield recharge rate is just that fast, and it shouldn't be. I don't even use and shield recharge boosters, and my shield recharge rate is still ridiculously fast.

I lose my shields, take cover, heal, reload, then get back into the fight. Rinse and repeat until I run out of ammo and neither person dies.

The game is much better when you can circle strafe?

Has the game ever not been one where you spend most of your time circle strafing?

Fact is the current style of fps Dust plays as doesn't match up with how it has been promoted. Everything we've been shown and told prior to receiving beta access points to a game with low health and tactical movements / cover as the core of the combat elements. ie: The 2011 trailer where the dropship lands with a whack of defenders behind low walls, and the attackers diving for cover. You don't dive for cover when you can avoid being hit by dancing in a circle.

I'm not saying I'm not having fun, but the gameplay is currently a bit incongruous with the message about what the game is supposed to be.

I found best way to deal with a heavy with a hoser is keep him at arms length if your up close your dead already ive killed plenty of them by simply setting up on a flank and shooting him getting behind cover find another flank shoot him eventual he drops keep him guessing where your going to attack from that how you use better mobility not strafe and pray,

This is one hell of a heated topic it almost seems to be 50/50 and while id admit the other side have some good point as in it promotes camping and other tactics which are frowned upon, as the game stands now i would have to say the movement system is seriously hindering the tactical game play DUST514 was meant to be about, like why would anyone use any other tactic if you can out turn them every time.

Suggestion Movement speed alteration: Forward 100% of what it is
Side to side 75 to 50% of what it is
Backward 75 to 50% of what it is
when strafing at full speed barrel wobble should increase spread of bullets fired severely

Another idea that came to mind was when hit maybe it should stagger or put someone off balance which would distoriantate screen, reduce accuracy and slow them down a bit reasoning behind this is sure we are armoured but getting shot with armour on will still hurt like hell. Maybe if aiming down sights were to take away from this affect as it would show some degree of battle stance, i dont know if this would be a good idea but it is something to think about what do ye think.

I've noticed that the heavy armor is hard to kill with the assault suits and light armor, a situation I find myself in pretty often and it goes down like this...










The verdict?

This guy's superior armor and damage output is way more advantageous than an extra jump... Please, let me be faster. Let me jump more.




EDIT: You're probably wondering why this is relevant, but my point is, that reducing the bunny hopping and other stuff like this game down will just penalize the players in light and assault drop suits...



Also... If you want to address realism...

One problem I've noticed is that I can't look right and left at all, I can look only forward that is, while I'm sprinting, this just penalizes players who are better at evaluating their enviroments than others... What sort of soldier can't turn his head while running? I never understood this.

Yes.

No, but MAG, CoD, BF, etc are games that don't spend most of your time circle stafing, and I prefer this way.

Oh wow, worst excuse yet. It's advertising, it's always like this. Are you new to shooters? About every shooter shows a team sticking together and coordinating tactical. From Call of Duty to Resistance. Guess what? It never happens. To say it should be that way because it was shown in a cinematic trailer is asinine.

I also don't believe this is CCP's intention for the game, because if it were we wouldn't have logistics or command dropsuits. Hell, there woudn't be any point to orbital bombardment either. By the time the supporting fire arrives the enemies would have danced halfway across the map.

America's Army was the first shooter I played that didn't do that. But as a long-term EVE player, I'd love to get into Dust, just not at the expense of physical pain.

I hate this whole arguement that "nerfing strafe/jump will make heavys imba". The fact of the matter is, in every blog, dev post and information letter we've had so far, the devs have always said their intention for the heavy suit is one where a player is not supposed to take them head on alone, as a scout or assualt suit. Rather that, to take one down, it is suppsoed to either require a team effort...or superior tactics.

Now, running around quickly back & forth is not a 'tactic', nor is bunny hopping and the like. They are simply used currently as they are the easiest and best answer to the problem of taking on heavies alone headon, even though that was not supposed to be easily possible. Instead, superior tactics should be observing the situation the heavy is in, and using that against them. I.E, a heavy player has you suppressed down a mountain path. Instead of running up to him, jumping and dancing as you go, I (personally) feel that the devs original intention, based on their own blogs, was for the player to get out of dodge quickly, and find a way to flank the heavy (such as using another pass, or using your jump to get on top of a side ledge), coming up behind and getting that advantage of a first drop on them, and then using their low mobility against them.

Nerfing the straffing and jumping wont reduce the effectiveness of scouts or assualts one bit. All it would do is (rightfully) nerf the ability to take on anything and anyone head on, solo, just because you can mash a button or twiddle stick faster (or have higher sensitivity) than the other person. And so would encourage more 'tactical' thinking, such as flanking and teamwork. That is afterall what you all want, right ?

lol @ all the people that can't aim. I wonder what the complains will be when the party system is rolled out and pub stomping/ corporation stomping begins.

Strafing and jumping were nerfed in the patch before you got your codes. The game plays fine. it isn't too slow it isn't too fast.

Please work on reducing the use of straffing, circling and jumping as a option to evade bullets.

Make the gunfights more realistic in regards of player movements, and therefore enforce a less rushed gameplay.

Strafing should be slower, circling should affect accuracy in a bad way, and jumping should forbid shooting and each jump be lesser i height/speed due like to stamina being used.

I agree on the point of firing while jumping, but strafing and circling I am okay with. I don't really want to be a stock still target to be fired at...

Possibly a better solution would be to make the Scout able to do this much easier than the Assault and Heavy, while the Assault is moderately good at it, but not at jump-firing, and the Heavy is not able to fire accurately in the least while Jumping and circling.

Strafing, the Heavy would still be OK at.

Just an idea!

Hey buddy, you can F right off. Keep it civil. No I'm not new to shooters. I was probably playing shooters before you played your very first computer game. Ever heard of Doom? Spend more time supporting your point of view on why the game should play a certain way, and less time throwing about asinine insinuations in a lame attempt to discredit the arguments of people you disagree with. That's the approach of someone who has already lost.

They're showing potential players a shooter that plays like Battlefield, with Eve-like long term strategy. The latter especially does not mesh well with Quake style gameplay. If the plan is to connect this game with Eve in such a way that it affects that game, then they need to make sure that people want to play it for more than a month or two until the next bunny hopping circle strafer comes out with the latest graphics. You do this by designing the game to make players think more than react.

Have you seen the trailers previous to the 2012 fanfest one? Do those look cinematic to you? They look to me an awful lot like some fancy camera-work with in-game assets. At least until they get to the last half or so and start putting in the acting and info overlays.

Edit to further clarify my point: They're describing Dust as Eve in boots. The point of the game is territorial control. They're making a big point out of the fact that when you die or your vehicle is blown up that you've personally lost money (isk) as a result. This all points to a game you expect to take seriously, like with Eve. It's hard to take it seriously when players move like jackrabbits, and a player in a militia suit can run through a full squad of enemies and survive because he started dancing. I also don't believe this is CCP's intention for the game, because if it were we wouldn't have logistics or command dropsuits. Hell, there woudn't be any point to orbital bombardment either. By the time the supporting fire arrives the enemies would have danced halfway across the map.

Also, I hate to burst your bubble Mr. FPS Veteran, but there are practically no "bunny hopping circle strafer" game on the PS3, in fact most of them are slow paced sit in a corner aiming down the sights for a kill type game. Such as BF, CoD, KZ, etc.

Done crying yet? You made a dumb comment about how DUST should be "tactical" because that's how the trailers show it. I could either think you're an idiot, or just assume you're new to shooters. Sadly it seems it's not the latter. One would think with all your years of FPS experience you'd have realized at some point games almost never play like they're shown in trailers.

No, not at all. If this game was Battlefield there would be 3 people on the ground and the rest in vehicles. It's not trying to appeal an audience like that. It's simply appealing to FPS fans who want more than just random matchmaking games against randoms. So you can try again, because that's not a valid reason as to why the gameplay should be slow and "tactical". Also, I hate to burst your bubble Mr. FPS Veteran, but there are practically no "bunny hopping circle strafer" game on the PS3, in fact most of them are slow paced sit in a corner aiming down the sights for a kill type game. Such as BF, CoD, KZ, etc. So tell me, if there aren't many (if any) games with the gameplay of DUST, what game will go to after a month or two of DUST? Finally, slowing down the strafe speeds of DUST doesn't make anyone "think more than react." All that does is slow down the gameplay tremendously, because everyone will be sitting still aiming down their scopes. But at least it would be "tactical!" Give me a break.

Please work on reducing the use of straffing, circling and jumping as a option to evade bullets.

Make the gunfights more realistic in regards of player movements, and therefore enforce a less rushed gameplay.

Strafing should be slower, circling should affect accuracy in a bad way, and jumping should forbid shooting and each jump be lesser i height/speed due like to stamina being used.

lol @ all the people that can't aim. I wonder what the complains will be when the party system is rolled out and pub stomping/ corporation stomping begins.

Strafing and jumping were nerfed in the patch before you got your codes. The game plays fine. it isn't too slow it isn't too fast.

sitting ADS waiting for kills is "super hardcore". tactical gameplay yo.

Um, good? If I want a bunny hopping game I will go play Halo. I want Battlefield in EVE.

sitting ADS waiting for kills is "super hardcore". tactical gameplay yo.

Too bad. Now get over it and go play Battlefield. Okay?



Pretty much.

How about a module or weapon that slows movement like webs in EVE? Don't like people dancing around? Train it up and slow them down.

so in essence players should be rewarded for camping using ADS? Where does skilled gunplay fit into games that allow for this?

web grenades are going to be introduced in the next patch.

It depends what team you are on. It you are on the defending team then yes, camping is a big part of the job. As far as ADS goes, sorry but hip fire is rare to non existent in real combat. Automatic fire was actually removed from the M16 to stop people from wasting ammo trying to do it and force them to aim.

Seriously though...since when has COD been known as a game where people sit in corners with sights? Last I heard, it was known as practically the run & gun king, with campers being absolutly slated in game...

ADS =/= a camp fest. Putting more emphasis on ADS makes the game a 'bit' slower paced, but mainly due to the fact that it takes more skill with aiming & tracking your target, rather than running up to them and blindly firing your gun until either you or they die.

The majority of mainstream FPSs (COD, Halo etc) tend to actually lean towards the faster paced, hip firing type gameplay. The BF series makes a nice balance between the two, possibly arguablly leaning more towards ADS. I can't personally think of an example of a game that takes hip firing & strafing to the extreme, but Dust in it's current state is certainly leaning on that (less tactical) side of gameplay. Meanwhile, examples of games that take ADS & slower paced game play more seriosuly, are of course AA, OFP, and the ARMA series, and all each offer an extremely tactical and slow gameplay.

Personally, I dont think the game would benefit being as extreme and realistic as games such as Arma, nor do I think it'll benefit from it's current state. I would like to see the game slowed down a little bit more, possibly making it 'just' slow enough so that players and teams have enough time to plan each step, but 'just' fast enough so that when an engagement with an enemy occurs, it is memorable and exciting. At the moment however, a lot of it seems to be a case of, 'run in to enemy' - 'circle & shoot from the hip' - 'jump like a rabbit and reload' - 'circle & shoot (until enemy dies)' - 'rinse & repeat'. You really think this is 'tactical' ?

I didn't see that. Where did you find that out? And are there any other similar items?

checkout the on the horizon thread in general discussion

I think you will be the one crying when we get the final build and it is slower and more tactical than what we are playing now. I think the bunny hop lovers are the vocal minority.

"If this game was Battlefield there would be 3 people on the ground and the rest in vehicles."

And here you finally show your opinion to be worthless because you've clearly never played a battlefield game, or learned how to get high scores and win if you have. I wish a mod would read this thread and gag you for throwing insults around. You need to grow the **** up, Mud.

"If this game was Battlefield there would be 3 people on the ground and the rest in vehicles."

And here you finally show your opinion to be worthless because you've clearly never played a battlefield game, or learned how to get high scores and win if you have. I wish a mod would read this thread and gag you for throwing insults around. You need to grow the **** up, Mud.

Fat suits have it easy enough, so your cries are not going to improve anything. Blame the freezes/hit detection instead of your inability to shoot people who actually use more than just the R1 button...or L1 and R1 combo and neglect to move themselves. When you talk about realistic are you talking about the camping matches in COD/BF3? In real actuality soldiers must move or else they will be killed...even snipers. Also the jump has been nerfed since the Pre-Replication build beyond any real use besides getting over things. If they nerf the speed/jump anymore then the scout suit will seriously be at a disadvantage.



I honestly loved the faster pace of the last patch...I had to adapt to this slower game-style which was a headache; now people want it to be slower without acknowledging the real problems. migraines are not healthy people.

I haven't played BF3 because I didn't want to deal with all that Origin BS. I'm talking about every other game in the series. Played any of those? Doesn't sound like it.

I don't mind that you prefer arena style shooters. I do mind that you can't even respond to the content of someones argument and resort to insults to puff yourself up.

CCP never said in terms of gameplay DUST was going to be tactical. Yeah the Meta Game and conquest portions are going to require careful planning and thought. The pace of game is fine. People need to learn to aim.

You haven't responded at all to the criticism that soldiers dancing like ballerinas doesn't fit in with the Eve universe.

actually it does have bearing in this conversation. You are saying "people move too fast I can't get kills. CCP slow the game down so i can get kills too."

This is exactly why most games are utter crap now. Devs dumb the game down for people. CCP shouldn't have to dumb dust down, because some people can't hit a moving target and feel the only way to get a kill is being in a fixed position ADSing.

If you want a realistic shooter go play americas army. The gunplay in DUST is what will give it character in a sea of other shooters.

Well the Dust merc are geneticly enhanced super soiders which seems to be getting mixed up with superman, above all the dust mercs are still soiders or warriors or what ever you want to call it this in effect meens running sidways while hip firing will seem inefficient to them and even a little embarrisng, when i get into a straafe fight and win i dont see it as a good kill i see it as a mix of luck and abusing a problem in the game not a skill or a good tactic i used as a reason to why a man i never met is lying on the ground dead for no other reason than it was him or me, sure the dust merc are going to be more reckless they move up when other people are pined down they do thing that involve risk such as charging enemy positions to take a objective and they use guns that would likly break a normal persons shoulder when firing.

CCP did describe the weapons as being so powerful that an unarmored person would be killed simply from pulling the trigger.

sry proto but youre wrong here ive been playing lots of FPS's and the way this is going in dust with all the jumping and strafing is not the way to go. go compare for yourself all the realistic FPS's with all the jumpy/strafy FPS's. on average the realistic ones have waaay more copy's sold then the other ones. + this kind of gameplay is NOT what the mainstream FPS players like its is just what u like and ive seen u on the battlefield several times and every time i meet u u are using the strafe jump thing every time so u defending this way of gameplay is for me not helping the game its just helping your game.

Please work on reducing the use of straffing, circling and jumping as a option to evade bullets.

Make the gunfights more realistic in regards of player movements, and therefore enforce a less rushed gameplay.

Strafing should be slower, circling should affect accuracy in a bad way, and jumping should forbid shooting and each jump be lesser i height/speed due like to stamina being used.

Please work on reducing the use of straffing, circling and jumping as a option to evade bullets.

Make the gunfights more realistic in regards of player movements, and therefore enforce a less rushed gameplay.

Strafing should be slower, circling should affect accuracy in a bad way, and jumping should forbid shooting and each jump be lesser i height/speed due like to stamina being used.

THis isnt BF3 or COD. Here you get to have multiple skills at work. Like aiming and dodging.
Sure it's different from "i saw you first you die" type of games.

I'm on a bad mood.

you're playing a scifi shooter with armor and shield tanking of course people are going to run at you. Like it's been said in other places ADS has it's uses, but it gets down to each individual players play style. For example if somebody is a sizable ways away from me of course i'm going to ADS, but in CQC i'm going to hip fire and strafe, because thats what you do in CQC to survive. You don't sit in one spot and hope the enemy misses you.

I think it is hard to determine balancing the 4 suits until the other suits come out. Some like being a Heavy slow moving tank, others like to be a Scout moving quickly but being more vulnerable.

We also do not have all the weapons yet or equipment. We may find that with new equipment that you can find a fit that you can use against the Scout.

You haven't responded at all to the criticism that soldiers dancing like ballerinas doesn't fit in with the Eve universe.

Or to the fact that important game mechanics like logistics suits have no role in that style of shooter. Or the fact that orbital bombardments, which if you're paying attention to is the single thing that makes Dust most distinct from other shooters, would be entirely pointless with the current speed of the game. All you've done is go "lol idiot!".

Edit: I'll also clarify what I'm "trying to prove" with my reference to the battlefield series. Just so you're crystal clear on what I'm talking about - 1942, 2142, Vietnam, BF2, BC2. In any of those games the team that is mostly sitting in vehicles loses, period. Vehicles had their role, but they weren't the "I win" button that you seem to think they were. It wasn't too hard to outsmart someone who insisted on using a vehicle without infantry support. Some players who try that might have nice looking k/d ratios, but in battlefield that number is next to meaningless. That game is about controlling territory. Sound familiar? Dust is going for the same core mechanic, but on a persistent mmo scale.

"So you want what you're used to"

"You can't handle the strafing, the fast pace, etc. "

Lol, that can go both sides.

People can tbe blamed for talking about the game trailer, as CCP itself called it a "Future Vision" as in whats they aim for the game.



And again a internet troll assuming too much about people.

Faster strafe speed will harm the game in the long run. The short span people will leave, and the game will die.

The game must be slower, reward team play and reinforce the need for players to be part of corporation that give advantages on the battlefield.

I dont want Dust to be a silly game that half the teenagers will leave once the best next thing is launched. I want it to be a deep game that will hold players prisioners of their evolution and assets accumulated, that will hold their ties to the comunity invaluable to the point of it being a game that "lasts forever".

Quick matches wont cut the deal. It gets boring fast.

Lol, that can go both sides.

People can tbe blamed for talking about the game trailer, as CCP itself called it a "Future Vision" as in whats they aim for the game.

And again a internet troll assuming too much about people.

Faster strafe speed will harm the game in the long run. The short span people will leave, and the game will die.

The game must be slower, reward team play and reinforce the need for players to be part of corporation that give advantages on the battlefield.

I dont want Dust to be a silly game that half the teenagers will leave once the best next thing is launched. I want it to be a deep game that will hold players prisioners of their evolution and assets accumulated, that will hold their ties to the comunity invaluable to the point of it being a game that "lasts forever".

Quick matches wont cut the deal. It gets boring fast.

It's obvious what I said is the case, because I have yet to have a good reason as to why the strafe speed is bad other than "I don't like it!" which is basically "I can't handle it, change it." worded differently. Why adapt when you can cry and get it changed, I guess.

LOL

You assume so much about others.

I can handle it just fine, but i really dont see it has a place in a EVE shooter as ambituous as Dust is.

And I could care less you you find yourself homeless in your gaming.

Where will strafers go after Dust hmm i wonder COD or the likes of unreal turnimen, hell mabye even starhawk if DUST can take over as the new battlefield type of tactical shooter yes there are lots of PS3 players who are disapointed with BF3 on concole including me up till BC2 it had a cult like following and even the MAG comunity are looking foward to another proper tactical shooter and iam under the impression that DUST 514 has the potential to fill this gap a game with conciquences which makes players feel like they are rewarded for teamwork. If Dust lives up to its potential it will have a veery good player base because on PS3 even some of the old games have a cult like following the ones that provided depth and if DUST has anythng it depth.

please show me where CCP said DUST was a slow tactical shooter?

Copyied and pasted straight from DUST home page

DUST514 is a First Person Shooter (FPS) and strategy experience set within the EVE universe. The primary gameplay features brutal ground combat that takes place on the surface of planets, delivering the visceral, adrenaline-fueled experience of futuristic firefights. Developed for the current generation of consoles, DUST514 will be equal parts battlefield reflexes and strategic planning, allowing commanders and ground infantry to work together, utilizing the real time configurable modular weapons and vehicles at their disposal to adapt to and control dynamic battlefield conditions.


link :http://www.ccpgames.com/en/products/dust-514.aspx

Term strategic is basicly tactical if English is not primary launagage

Not really, 'strategy' in this context is at a higher level, like a general or a Corp CEO in EVE who hires mercs to take over a planet. As in 'Goonswarms strategy is to take over all of the planets in X sector',whereas the term 'tactical' refers to unit(platoon level or squad level in this case) techniques to overcome an enemy.

Going to show me otherwise? Or are you going to tell me about how the trailer showed different gameplay from the actual gameplay. Or you going to tell me that slow gameplay makes you feel closer to your corp again?

Also, try this again but make sense.

This is a hot issue.

I thought I would add my two cents. After playing dust for the past two weeks I am disappointed in the close range mechanics. The way the game registers hits is the main reason. Its annyoing to see the person you are shooting showing their shields are being hit, only to find after shooting a whole mag they have no damage recorded. Once this is fixed I recon it should improve the way close range fights should pan out. By the look of the above posts Protoman and Mud have figured out were to aim to record hits while spinning around and from what I have seen it is not centre of seen mass which suggests lag. If Protoman and Mud want to defend the current build and say its skill, yes it is skill to figure out the bug and where to aim. which wont change when they fix the hit registration or whatever they call it. All it will do is even the playing field for other players who are not aware of the current short comings. I really dont see what they are scared of there.

I dont think the straffing and moving should be changed, If someone started shooting at me I would not stand still. However the one thing I do have a problem with is jumping. Jumping around like a rabbit while someone shoots at you looks stupid and if someone showed me that and said thats DUST's game play I would not consider playing the game. jumping around in circles to avoid hits is a silly game mechanic that does not reflect what I imagine futuristic combat. I will be disapointed if it remains in the game.

In real life (yes I am going there) I can jump around 1 meter off the ground and I have seen some guys who train in crossfit can jump about shoulder height. The main difference between this game and real life is that for a real human to jump they must squat down to get the power to jump. IF they changed the jump mechanic to being one in which say the longer you held the button the higher you jump then it would be more realistic and that delay would make 'Bunny Hopping' an unviable tactic. If these guys are super soldiers of the future why cant they jump high just not instant jumping. People are complaining about scout and assault not having an advatange over the heavy. Well why not make it so when charged up a scout could jump several meters clearing obsticals that a heavy cannot cross and move out of danger, only risk is you are vunerable for a second while you squat down to make the jump.

This is a hot issue.

I thought I would add my two cents. After playing dust for the past two weeks I am disappointed in the close range mechanics. The way the game registers hits is the main reason. Its annyoing to see the person you are shooting showing their shields are being hit, only to find after shooting a whole mag they have no damage recorded. Once this is fixed I recon it should improve the way close range fights should pan out. By the look of the above posts Protoman and Mud have figured out were to aim to record hits while spinning around and from what I have seen it is not centre of seen mass which suggests lag. If Protoman and Mud want to defend the current build and say its skill, yes it is skill to figure out the bug and where to aim. which wont change when they fix the hit registration or whatever they call it. All it will do is even the playing field for other players who are not aware of the current short comings. I really dont see what they are scared of there.

I dont think the straffing and moving should be changed, If someone started shooting at me I would not stand still. However the one thing I do have a problem with is jumping. Jumping around like a rabbit while someone shoots at you looks stupid and if someone showed me that and said thats DUST's game play I would not consider playing the game. jumping around in circles to avoid hits is a silly game mechanic that does not reflect what I imagine futuristic combat. I will be disapointed if it remains in the game.

In real life (yes I am going there) I can jump around 1 meter off the ground and I have seen some guys who train in crossfit can jump about shoulder height. The main difference between this game and real life is that for a real human to jump they must squat down to get the power to jump. IF they changed the jump mechanic to being one in which say the longer you held the button the higher you jump then it would be more realistic and that delay would make 'Bunny Hopping' an unviable tactic. If these guys are super soldiers of the future why cant they jump high just not instant jumping. People are complaining about scout and assault not having an advatange over the heavy. Well why not make it so when charged up a scout could jump several meters clearing obsticals that a heavy cannot cross and move out of danger, only risk is you are vunerable for a second while you squat down to make the jump.

I am sure i made various points about the advantages of changing straffing mechanics, wont say it all again, read all the threads about it on the forum, plus previous posts.

Its not you I have to convince, as its impossible, same way you wont convince me or others with different points of view, thus its pointless to argue with you wich is clearly a troll.

As the game stands now I wont be investing any time to it. I have played and found myself hating the straffing and constant dancing with guns.

I would like to see a cover system in place to allow for more tactics to be involved instead what we have is rush a position and dance around shooting wildly at the other person till one of you ends up dead.

I do not find that fun. Its one reason I play the sniper in this game due to the rubbish way in which close combat is dealt with. And also why I use the Swarm Launcher in close combat.

As for when the game is released I wont be playing due to the straffing involved. I would prefer a tactical shooter which Dust is not.

lolcover system.

You use the swarm launcher because you can't aim.

lolcover system.

You use the swarm launcher because you can't aim.

... High jumps for scouts and jump building momentum seems like a nice idea to be played with...

Now we're getting somewhere! This thread should have been about Future Movement from the beginning.

Gameplay is important, and CCP is clearly trying to make a very run&gun, fast-paced shooter that appeals to twitchy players. However, the current circle-jerk doesn't feel like future, super-soldier movement; it feels like Halo. DUST should be DUST.

I want Protoman and Mud to be able to pwn entire squads... if, IF, they are really the elite, speed-tanked, movement-focused super-soldiers of the future. But NOT in Militia gear!

I've felt the fear of an approaching Scout dropsuit, realizing that it was far more dangerous close-up than the other assault and heavy dropsuits it was with. That is an awesome feeling. I wouldn't give that up for anything. The Scout should totally be able to jump 10 feet straight up and cross 20 foot gaps. That is a realistic (and fun) game mechanic.

The squatting idea is a bit of a problem, though. I dabble in parkour, and you do not, I repeat NOT, squat before a big jump. Instead, you transform really fast forward momentum into upward momentum. In reality, jumping far would not make you more vulnerable, but it WOULD make it impossible to reload, or even fire, while doing so.

Done right, this game mechanic could be awesome, for both attackers and defenders.

Yeah I've read through them all, I posted some of my favorite "reasons" in the other thread about strafing. They're honestly hilarious, and as I said, they all come down to "I don't like it, change it."

Like I said, why adapt when you can cry. That's all this comes down to. And if CCP gives in and pleases the QQers, this game has no chance, I've been down that road.

I notice strange talk of slow tactical shooters. Why not fast tactical shooters?

Is someone going to actually try and claim that moving fast means there are no tactics? Now that would be a facepalm moment.

Having a class that can move fast is nice. Having a game not be slow is nice. Having a game where people have shields and require sustained damage is nice.

You almost need to have people be able to move around and get behind terrain and strafe around when there are shields involved.

The QQing against bunny hopping is ridiculous

scouts have 2 jumps
everybody else has 1

People aren't constantly jumping around the map. Most of the complaints are hyperbole.

The QQing against bunny hopping is ridiculous

scouts have 2 jumps
everybody else has 1

People aren't constantly jumping around the map. Most of the complaints are hyperbole.

Between this, the skilling system, the fitting system and the (god I hope so) effect DUST will have on sov space ... this game is NOTHING like any other shooter.

I agree with Protoman; the last damned thing we need to do is lower the bar and water it down so that it's just like every other shooter out there...

Speed and mobility have to mean something, or we may as well all roll heavies.

Mud you say the nerf straffing side didnt bring up any valid point but over this tread alone ive seen many valid pointson boths sides most coming from the nerf side mind you but i rarly seen you have a reply that does not resort to saying they can play it you will find alot of them can and just dont like it so get over your self your big bad strafing skill is easyier to master than you think.

This game may stand a chance of living for a long time if the CQC strafing is fixed and a better depth to the movment is included as is right but if the game stays as it is the vast majority of FPS players will get sick of players using this tactic as i and many other people in DUST now would therefore it will never get a following other than yourself and a few others that enjoy your playstyle.

Ultimatly what we want is for DUST to be a great game if a movment system like BC2 for example is introduced then it will be like look at it so far it rewarding feeling to complete objectives or to take over spawn points so far the only let down is that the straffing lets the side down if the game is left as it is it will not be a popular as it has the potential of being.

The same thing can be said of you"i like it, do not change".

anyway, this game is in the beta, where this changes must be evaluated and is the right moment to do it while the devs are still seeking the best balance.

I agree if i can't use the speed of a scout suit to out maneuver a heavy and possibly take him down by speed tanking what is the point to this? I can hop in a dramiel to bring down a rokh but can't do the same approach when using a scout suit? Why would I want that kind of universe... where there are only big tanks killing mice running around. Why scout? learn to hit me when I am moving around or die. I don't care but don't kill my strafing and maybe give me new ways to outmaneuver people. I don't mind doing flips over peoples heads while firing an SMG on full auto to take a turret thats raining death on my allies.

I notice strange talk of slow tactical shooters. Why not fast tactical shooters?

Is someone going to actually try and claim that moving fast means there are no tactics? Now that would be a facepalm moment.

Mud i do speak for the vast majority of FPS PS3 players becuase iam one of them i was a PS3 player playing the first resistance since then i have played damn near every main stream PS3 FPS that made it i even played unreal tourny and it failed and thats the closest thing to this PS3 has had games the most popular game on the market right now is COD and battlefield both of which did not have strafing like this.

PS we go back to eve iam sure there will be alot of bitter players at the disapoint ment who will use there Dust character to designate there team base and well TEAM kill quite literaly

I wont but ive played eve long enough to know there are people like that out there, plus who is going to trust eve resorcese to players who are strafing like rocket propelled trollies with a gun attached.

Mud i do speak for the vast majority of FPS PS3 players becuase iam one of them i was a PS3 player playing the first resistance since then i have played damn near every main stream PS3 FPS that made it i even played unreal tourny and it failed and thats the closest thing to this PS3 has had games the most popular game on the market right now is COD and battlefield both of which did not have strafing like this.

PS we go back to eve iam sure there will be alot of bitter players at the disapoint ment who will use there Dust character to designate there team base and well TEAM kill quite literaly

I wont but ive played eve long enough to know there are people like that out there, plus who is going to trust eve resorcese to players who are strafing like rocket propelled trollies with a gun attached.

Hmm had a long post all typed out and the damn thing screwed up on me ill edit this one with the reply sorry for the wait Mud. OK its srewed up again there something funny bout the forms so iam going to stream line my reply

FIrst off you are right about me not being the speaker of the PS3 FPS majority but iam part of it ive been PS3 FPS player for longer than i played eve.

You say that the majority of people would abandon it for next COD or BF probably true but the altrenative is make it like unreal turny which people abandoned after about a month.

Your assuming i want it to be like BC2 that is wrong i want the movment to be a little more simular but that just personal taste the gameplay not so much i like how DUST is and i think alot of players will get sort of traped in the Eve universe once they realise the social aspects to it and the depth,

I do not think DUST should be like any of above i think it should be better it has potential to be not just a good game but a great game,

Both sides of this argument want DUST to be as great as it has the potential just we have different veiws on how i think the greatest challange could be what makes this game great in it might end up a compramise between the 2 gameplay types which realy has never been done or at least at this scale

Dust is ment to be a stratigic fast paced shooter therfore a compramise between 2 styles seems to be intended its also ment to have many ways to down people but 9 out of 10 time a strafing war breaks out so i have come to the conclusion that strafing is over powered and needs to be nerfed, to make it a balance as this shows that strafing is too efective pre hit detection
Almost forgot iam not in favor of nerfing movment speed just strafing speed still foward movement same just faword not equal side to side and back

If you dont agree then you just want to make a perfect game for you as speed apears to be you skill.

sorry bout long wait the post system is wonky i think there is a gremilin in the systems

Yeah it's messed up for me about every time, I just copy my replies before I hit post, it usually only deletes it once or twice.

-

It's not Unreal Tournament. That game didn't flop because of the movement speed, it flopped simply because it was a bad game. Between map design, stability issues, so many more reasons, it's a wonder the game was even released. Not to mention a PC series ported to consoles, that never works out. DUST is a PS3 exclusive, pretty different than the arena style of UT. DUST won't have people abandon it after a month or two like UT3, I'd bet money on that.

Nonetheless, I still say if you want BF3 movement, play BF3. Don't try to convert DUST to that. Let the developers design the game their way. I've seen it before. People always want their way, and if the loudest group gets what they want, the game will be always changing causing it to die, MAG is the perfect example of this.

i agree.

We can't really compromise regarding strafe speed, it's either fast or it isn't. :\

You see, strafing can't be "overpowered". It's in the game, no, it's meant to be how the game is played. We're not shooting at each other standoff style, or lining up our shots before pulling the trigger. Nobody is abusing anything, they're simply playing the game as it is intended. Strafing is a part of shooters, you've played Resistance, you should know that strafing was prevalent in that game too. The only reason strafing seems unfair is because the game currently has terrible hit detection. Once that gets fixed strafing will honestly be a legitimate way of dodging bullets in a gunfight. You're not giving it a chance, you're saying it's overpowered and needs to be removed when you have yet to actually experience it with proper hit detection. Tell me, how fair is that?

I don't want a game to cater to my skill, I want a game that doesn't get changed every time the loudest group in a community wants a change. Like I said, if the strafing is a problem, either adapt or stop playing, don't complain to get it changed to your liking.

cod and bf both suck btw, just an fyi

I think the movement speed is fine compared to alot of other shooters out there. As far as I'm concerned you guys can twitch all you want. When I get my mouse and keyboard unleashed, the gamepad kiddies are all gonna burn.

I think the movement speed is fine compared to alot of other shooters out there. As far as I'm concerned you guys can twitch all you want. When I get my mouse and keyboard unleashed, the gamepad kiddies are all gonna burn.