If a vet cant Reach 150 WP, he totally deserves to be rewarded with 0 SP, ambush or not. Because it means that that vet wasnt even trying at all. Period.

I totally agree with you.

Would've done exactly the same thing. Insufficient incentive to play an unplayable match. Suggestion:

Oops! Something went wrong with Scotty the Matchmaking AI. Your odds of successfully navigating the upcoming stomp are approximately 3,720:1. Stompees will be paid end-of-match compensation of 3000 SP, 100 Barge Components. and 300k Isk (plus face value of all gear destroyed). Do you wish to deploy?

The WP minimum functions to influence vets to get off their ass and get more than 125 god damned WP.

If you honestly cant get more than that you should just stop playing. Not even kidding, go find something else to have fun with that wont make you feel like you are a bumbling idiot.

I cant even remember the last time I got <150WP unless I was afk eating a sandwich the whole game.

Explain to me why.



Again, explain to me why.



That'd make too much sense, Adipem. You know what would make even more sense then that? Tieracide, maybe meta-level limited match setups, an actual match-maker... or just removing the stupid WP minimum altogether.

The hilarious part here is that I just see people saying, "Herp derp if you can't hit 150 WP you deserve 0" but no-one seems to be explaining -WHY-. I keep asking why, I keep asking the functionality, but no-one has a good answer - hell they don't have any answers, just the same trolling non-sense of, "git gud", like they've -never- had a bad match where they just got annihilated.

And I -refuse- to stop arguing against it BECAUSE it doesn't have a justifiable explanation. I won't stop until someone can come in here and say, "This is why: -insert justifiable, reasonable argument as to why a player should not just stop playing because they'd be wasting their time otherwise-". What freaggin incentive do I have to even stay in the match if by 25 clones I haven't hit the minimum -already-? Why should I stay at all, if looking at the team-setups I see a whole squad of 'x' corporation that I know will be running high-end gear?

I won't stop until someone can come in here and say, "This is why: -insert justifiable, reasonable argument as to why a player should not just stop playing because they'd be wasting their time otherwise-". What freaggin incentive do I have to even stay in the match if by 25 clones I haven't hit the minimum -already-? Why should I stay at all, if looking at the team-setups I see a whole squad of 'x' corporation that I know will be running high-end gear?

They tried the pitting vets against vets thing before in matchmaking.

It led to horridly under-populated matches, and ******* LONG ASS wait-times.

You want to go back to that?

That'd make too much sense, Adipem. You know what would make even more sense then that? Tieracide, maybe meta-level limited match setups, an actual match-maker... or just removing the stupid WP minimum altogether.

The hilarious part here is that I just see people saying, "Herp derp if you can't hit 150 WP you deserve 0" but no-one seems to be explaining -WHY-. I keep asking why, I keep asking the functionality, but no-one has a good answer - hell they don't have any answers, just the same trolling non-sense of, "git gud", like they've -never- had a bad match where they just got annihilated.

And I -refuse- to stop arguing against it BECAUSE it doesn't have a justifiable explanation. I won't stop until someone can come in here and say, "This is why: -insert justifiable, reasonable argument as to why a player should not just stop playing because they'd be wasting their time otherwise-". What freaggin incentive do I have to even stay in the match if by 25 clones I haven't hit the minimum -already-? Why should I stay at all, if looking at the team-setups I see a whole squad of 'x' corporation that I know will be running high-end gear?

In-game justification: if you dont perform your job (you're a mercenary after all), you dont get paid.

Out-game justification: Learn to play and help your team. One uplink can get you like 300-400 WP if you dont place it in a moronic place, 3 kills will get you enough WP, rep tools, nanohives, hacking OMS installations, damaging vehicles, and so on and so forth.

How about you justify people getting any kind of reward when they perform so badly that they can't even hit 150 WP?

I might support a better system if you can think one up, but I have zero problem with a system like this being in place.

Because you're not the only one on the team. It's because everyone 'stops trying' that a stomp occurs, some check the player list at the start of battle and you see them do nothing. If you aren't going to try, why stay in the match, just leave it'll be better for the rest of the team. The people you don't care about putting at a disadvantage because you've taken up a player slot on the team without doing anything and yet you expect to get a reward, for doing nothing useful...
Even in primary school they tell you 'it's the taking part that counts.' Sure back there it means you get a gold star just for being, but the meaning you're meant to take from it, is that you should actually take part and try to help!

Why should I care if someone gets no points, for giving up and not trying, just because it's too difficult? If someone else was in that slot, sure we would likely still lose, but at least we'd be able to put up a fight. When you don't try, anything everyone else does becomes worthlessly outnumbered.

This is why;

The WP minimum is a good idea that was put in place to encourage player participation. If you are in the match and you are sitting on the side of the road in an LAV so you don't get kicked or sitting in the MCC with a rubber band on your controller so you can gain isk, you don't deserve SP or isk period. People do this...they are called AFK'ers and I am sure you know that.

They not only take places of people who might actually be playing the game, but they also stress out veterans like me because when I am on the ground putting boots to asses, I have no support. I'm decent at this game and sometimes I'm a beast at this game but I am never God at this game. I cannot be every role and defend every objective and every point myself. It cannot be done. I am not a one man army.

So I rely on all of you to assist me against the other 16 players on the other side. Just the same as you rely on me and if you're not going to try, I don't believe you should advance in this game because you are lazy and cowardly and no one deserves a reward for being cowardly and lazy.

If you're not even going to try, why play the game? This AFK pandemic also ruins the new player experience. You have just graduated the battle academy and put into your first match with veterans and you see 9 players up in the MCC not doing anything and you are being humiliated and juggernauted and stomped to the ninth degree.....so you decide you know what? Eff this game...this game sucks, I'm going to play ___________.

So the WP minimum is there for all of those reasons...and the reason why is because its what is best for Dust 514, its what is best for business and its a step in the right direction to encourage player participation and not allow a bunch of cowardly, lazy people to collect paychecks and skill points for spelunking about with their thumbs in their rectal cavities.

Savvy?

Explain to me why.



Again, explain to me why.



That'd make too much sense, Adipem. You know what would make even more sense then that? Tieracide, maybe meta-level limited match setups, an actual match-maker... or just removing the stupid WP minimum altogether.

The hilarious part here is that I just see people saying, "Herp derp if you can't hit 150 WP you deserve 0" but no-one seems to be explaining -WHY-. I keep asking why, I keep asking the functionality, but no-one has a good answer - hell they don't have any answers, just the same trolling non-sense of, "git gud", like they've -never- had a bad match where they just got annihilated.

And I -refuse- to stop arguing against it BECAUSE it doesn't have a justifiable explanation. I won't stop until someone can come in here and say, "This is why: -insert justifiable, reasonable argument as to why a player should not just stop playing because they'd be wasting their time otherwise-". What freaggin incentive do I have to even stay in the match if by 25 clones I haven't hit the minimum -already-? Why should I stay at all, if looking at the team-setups I see a whole squad of 'x' corporation that I know will be running high-end gear?

You keep asking for why? Here's my opinion

The 150 WP minimum is for Vets only. I'm unaware of what the level is the constituted a vet, but I've heard it range anywhere from 10 mil SP to 30 Mil SP.

For the sake of argument, let's split that number and call it 20 Mil SP

With 20 mil sp, you have been playing for a while. You understand the game mechanics, how weapons affect suits (and vice versa) you understand the roles of suits, the differences in races and have played more than enough matches to take that knowledge and apply it appropriately.

With the combination of that knowledge and experience, and as a vet, you have to TRY and not get 150 WP if you're actively playing. Kills, Assists, Links, reps, hives, needles, scans, hacking (no ambush obviously), etc all give you the ability to get anywhere from +5 SP (killing enemy equipment) to +100 SP (Hacking) even +150 if you manage to kill a tank.

With all of the options afforded to you to get SP, 150 is not a tough barrier to crack. Since this was implemented, I have in ONE MATCH not hit the 150 WP and that was because the match was nearly over before I joined the fight. I did still manage to get 125 WP.

I got isk, I got not skill points, so i pulled up my big boy pants and deployed into another match.

That is the answer to "Why?"

And it -will- happen to you at some point. One of these days you're going to get <150WP and not get anything because the stars aligned and you got screwed over, simple as that. Try running Ambush with all militia/standard gear and come back and say that it doesn't happen. I dare you to -live stream it- if you're THAT confident that you will never -EVER- have <150WP in an Ambush match.

You're going to slap yourself silly when you realize just how broken and dumb this mechanic is.

So now we need to justify being rewarded for playing the game in the first place, in a game-mode that is -really hard- to exploit mechanics for AFK purposes..? See my last post. Why stop at 150 WP? If I were a mercenary contractor, (by the way, I'm not a mercenary just because the game says I am), I'd want the best of the best of the best. I'd set a hard limit of 1000 WP. If you can't manage that, no pay.

But it isn't ISK... It's SP. You still get the ISK. You don't get the SP. It's like saying that you don't learn from the experience, that the Active Boosters are worthless because you're "not gud nuff" or because the game just decides that you deserve to be spawn camped in from the start of the match.

I digress. It's a shoddy game mechanic. It's built out of vengeance and ego. There's no -real- functionality behind it other than "Well, I don't think that guy is putting forth the effort despite going 1/7 in that last match."

I think you just hate ambush?

We tried to fix ambush spawn mechanics, which were random, more like BF/COD, just spawn away in the distance, but then the blob was invincible.

The current mechanic tries to put you close to the hub of your teammates, but if they are being massacred, it's not good either.

Then we get into "if X deaths in area, then not spawn close to friends, just in outer rims", and that isn't easy either.

Any super smart ideas?

My alt is 100% invested in vehicles and has to run normal ambushes in starter gear/militia suits. I may have gotten <150 WP in a match but I dont remember it. Even in starter suits, it is not difficult for a vet player who knows what they are doing to get 150.

I dont know about you but I have no problem not getting SP when I do nothing for the team, even if it is an outlier in terms of performance.



The reward for playing a game is having fun, the mechanics of the game or in game rewards can take away or add to that, so its up to you to decide if playing the game is fun or not. If it isnt fun I would suggest not playing it.

I dont see how its hard to afk in ambush game mode, all you have to do is keep spawning in. I've seen more jumping afk starter AV fits in ambush than any other game mode.

Why stop at 150 WP? I dunno, you can make an argument for whatever you want, the specific number might seem to high or too low, I think 150 WP is fair enough and I rarely see anyone who isnt running around aimlessly or sitting around afk get less than that.

It penalizes SP over ISK because: ISK is the fuel that keeps a clone running, penalizing ISK would make it harder to run dropsuits in the future, thus creating a negative performance feedback resulting in worse and worse chances to make the WP minimum, SP penalty just leaves you where you were before the match. ISK is not relevant to many players, and most people dont afk in matches to win ISK. SP is the number that means something to the players behind the clone, so you have to penalize that number to make anything stick.

As for being spawn ****** by ambush, or the WP minimum being a shoddy mechanic in generally: I agree. This is CCP we're talking about here, and Im not sure why anyone ever queues up for ambush without expecting to be screwed over every once and a while. And again, if you can suggest something better I'd be all for it (but I dont think having no minimum at all is better).

I think you just hate ambush?

We tried to fix ambush spawn mechanics, which were random, more like BF/COD, just spawn away in the distance, but then the blob was invincible.

The current mechanic tries to put you close to the hub of your teammates, but if they are being massacred, it's not good either.

Then we get into "if X deaths in area, then not spawn close to friends, just in outer rims", and that isn't easy either.

Any super smart ideas?

Copy and paste that entire text, attach it in an e-mail, and send it to the 13 players on the enemy team who got screwed over in this video that I posted.

You telling me 13 people didn't put forth the effort? You telling me that their entire team only killing -EIGHT PEOPLE- they'd manage to get the assists and necessary warpoints, in five minutes, it should be fair that the veterans on their team basically just wasted their time?

So you believe that players should deal with being screwed over by a spawn system you admit is shoddy... and a gameplay mechanic you admit is shoddy... because we have no other viable option besides -not- screwing them over.

I think we're done here. Be sure to watch the video I posted above, maybe weigh in on your (somewhat elitest) perspective a bit.

Let me come at this from a different angle.

Why stop at 150 WP? Clearly if it's to get a Veteran to get off his kitten and put forth the effort, why stop there? Why not raise it up to say... 300 WP? How about 500 WP? A veteran can easily attain 1000 WP right?

Or is that too high for you guys? You can't hit 1000 WP consistently every single match you play? Maybe you shoullllllddd git gud scrub. I mean, yanno, because I can -totally- hit 1000 WP running squad leader as a Logistics suit with a gimmick fit. Even easier if I run my Madrugar and have it filled to the brim cranking out that MCRU while I've got nanohives/dropuplinks scattered all about the map. Why can't you?

You guys starting to wrap your head around why this is dumb yet? Because I can go on all day with this.

Copy and paste that entire text, attach it in an e-mail, and send it to the 13 players on the enemy team who got screwed over in this video that I posted.

You telling me 13 people didn't put forth the effort? You telling me that their entire team only killing -EIGHT PEOPLE- they'd manage to get the assists and necessary warpoints, in five minutes, it should be fair that the veterans on their team basically just wasted their time?

Looks horrible, but I'd blame matchmaking here, not the WP minimum.

That said, I've been saying if you have a better system, speak up. Maybe we could add in a rule to the WP minimum that goes something like this: If more than half the team fails to meet the minimum, dont penalize anyone.

But again removing the minimum is not a solution just because theres one game out of 100 that is such a brutal stomp that the other team genuinely did not have the chance to make the minimum WP.

My assumption would be that those people probably aren't above the 'veteran' cutoff and it therefore didn't matter.

If they ARE above the 'veteran' cutoff, then yes, I concur they didn't do enough or got steamrolled by game mechanics.

EDIT: Also, stop saying they wasted their time. While not ideal, they did at least get some isk to compensate for their time.

I do agree this system should be removed, for the sake of the new player (whom apparently Rattati cares about :D )

on Ambush. If you are a vet, it is fairly easy take a cloak scout with a drop uplink, cloak, run to a safe space, drop the link and regroup. Take one for the team. I have done that quite a few times. Not only does it encourage people to do the same, but gives you a fighting chance. the 6 spawns should give the 150 you need.

Even if we need to fix ambush, it's still sound advice.

For real..? Take one for the team..?

I can't just play the game how I want to play it, now; I have to run a suit I could care less for so that I can make my minimum to actually go on to enjoying the game?

Bah, don't even know why I'm fighting it, Evolve comes out in two hours anyway, not like I'm honestly going to be playing anyway. But I will be making a mental note not to play Ambush anymore.

I think you just hate ambush?

We tried to fix ambush spawn mechanics, which were random, more like BF/COD, just spawn away in the distance, but then the blob was invincible.

The current mechanic tries to put you close to the hub of your teammates, but if they are being massacred, it's not good either.

Then we get into "if X deaths in area, then not spawn close to friends, just in outer rims", and that isn't easy either.

Any super smart ideas?

No, to help the team win...

No, to help the team win...

on Ambush. If you are a vet, it is fairly easy take a cloak scout with a drop uplink, cloak, run to a safe space, drop the link and regroup. Take one for the team. I have done that quite a few times. Not only does it encourage people to do the same, but gives you a fighting chance. the 6 spawns should give the 150 you need.

Even if we need to fix ambush, it's still sound advice.