DUST Search - Really starting to hate the WP minimum...

Regis Blackbird wrote:

Aeon Amadi wrote:

Nothing like running ADV/Proto gear against a proto-stomp team in Ambush only to come out with 125 WP and not get any SP for the match.

Just shelling out ISK for nothing at this point.

Under current mechanics, none of these people would have received SP:
http://i.imgur.com/x5zqCs0.png
http://i.imgur.com/r1OsMSi.png
http://i.imgur.com/XIbZFiZ.png

YOU -WILL- READ THE BELOW BEFORE MAKING COMMENTS

The question you have to ask is: What meaningful function does the WP Minimum implement? What is it supposed to do, who is it supposed to affect, and who gets caught the crossfire unnecessarily?

If the WP Minimum was implemented to keep people from AFKing, then Ambush shouldn't be in the equation because it's nigh impossible to AFK through an Ambush.

YOU -WILL- READ THE ABOVE BEFORE MAKING COMMENTS

The main purpose of the minimum WP limit is to target AFK:ers.

However, there were concerns raised about the minimum WP limit affecting different game modes differently, with Ambush as a clear example. I recommended to initially wait to implement the minimum limit, until we know how the system behaves for newbs and vets....but here we are I guess. What?

However with that said, unless you know the lifetime SP of the people you listed, and the secret "VET threshold" CCP implemented, there is no way you can state those people didn't get any SP, since the minimum WP requirement only applies to VETs.

Although you got 0 SP, you still got ISK and salvage, right? So you can't say you got nothing (At least I did when I didn't met the requirements)

And ask yourself, how much SP would you really have gotten from 125WP?
Compare that to your lifetime SP, and you will see that it really doesn't matter.

On the bright side, when you DO get a lot of WP as a VET, you see the SP roll in as never before. Big smile

(Overall I think it's evens out)

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
Aeon Amadi Chimera Core 8539	Posted - 2015.02.08 21:05:00 - [31] - Quote Regis Blackbird wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Nothing like running ADV/Proto gear against a proto-stomp team in Ambush only to come out with 125 WP and not get any SP for the match. Just shelling out ISK for nothing at this point. Under current mechanics, none of these people would have received SP: http://i.imgur.com/x5zqCs0.png http://i.imgur.com/r1OsMSi.png http://i.imgur.com/XIbZFiZ.png YOU -WILL- READ THE BELOW BEFORE MAKING COMMENTS The question you have to ask is: What meaningful function does the WP Minimum implement? What is it supposed to do, who is it supposed to affect, and who gets caught the crossfire unnecessarily? If the WP Minimum was implemented to keep people from AFKing, then Ambush shouldn't be in the equation because it's nigh impossible to AFK through an Ambush. YOU -WILL- READ THE ABOVE BEFORE MAKING COMMENTS The main purpose of the minimum WP limit is to target AFK:ers. However, there were concerns raised about the minimum WP limit affecting different game modes differently, with Ambush as a clear example. I recommended to initially wait to implement the minimum limit, until we know how the system behaves for newbs and vets....but here we are I guess. However with that said, unless you know the lifetime SP of the people you listed, and the secret "VET threshold" CCP implemented, there is no way you can state those people didn't get any SP, since the minimum WP requirement only applies to VETs. Although you got 0 SP, you still got ISK and salvage, right? So you can't say you got nothing (At least I did when I didn't met the requirements) And ask yourself, how much SP would you really have gotten from 125WP? Compare that to your lifetime SP, and you will see that it really doesn't matter. On the bright side, when you DO get a lot of WP as a VET, you see the SP roll in as never before. (Overall I think it's evens out) I got like 70k ISK and no salvage. Also you can generally tell a veteran from a new player by using Eve-Gate and looking at their employment history. Looking at Bradric Banewolf (from the third picture I linked) you can see that he's been around since March 2013. He's not new by any sense of the word but because he didn't reach the minimum WP: No SP. I'm not going to do this with every person I play with but if it's happening to at least one player, then we can assume it's happening to a hundred others. And that right there is what drives me bonkers. Have a suggestion for the Planetary Services Department? *Founder of AIV*
Aeon Amadi Chimera Core 8539	Posted - 2015.02.08 21:07:00 - [32] - Quote Raiden246 wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Atiim wrote: lolwat? My brother AFKs in bush while playing CoD on the other PS3 and he still makes enough WP to get the ISK/SP. Video or it didn't happen. Come on man... running the APEX Nomad (Loyalty version) I can get more than 150 warpoints against Nyain San in Ambush. My actual proto fits, 450 or more. Get Good. Read OP and answer the questions asked or shut up, seriously. You clearly have nothing useful to say. Have a suggestion for the Planetary Services Department? *Founder of AIV*
Middas Betancore Mantodea MC 442	Posted - 2015.02.08 21:07:00 - [33] - Quote While there is a lot of way of making WP and the warlords patch puts u in matches that have time to make LP I still listen to players who play a lot of dust, but have a bad match and get nothing at all not a small amount..but nothing...with boosters active this becomes very infuriating It may curtail AFK farming in the short term, but soon enough they will get their requisite number of WP and then AFK Is the 200wp action of an AFK'er justified? they did their part, now they can AFK? Pretty much whatever arbitrary amount we set will prove awkward...so just remove it...find another way to deal with AFK just my thoughts "Deploy the gas, we'll burn what's left"- Redacted
Obliv Shining Flame Amarr Empire 27	Posted - 2015.02.08 21:15:00 - [34] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: Obliv wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Nothing like running ADV/Proto gear against a proto-stomp team in Ambush only to come out with 125 WP and not get any SP for the match. Just shelling out ISK for nothing at this point. Under current mechanics, none of these people would have received SP: http://i.imgur.com/x5zqCs0.png http://i.imgur.com/r1OsMSi.png Uplinks. These forum guys recommended them and I tried and got top 3 in a few matches. Uplinks are great and all until you go up against a true proto stomp where they are scanning them down and slapping everyone up. A 50 man ambush gives an average of 3 clones per person. When the enemy is on top of your smart deploy that is almost literally gone in the blink of an eye. You can lead a horse to water..... I am just passing on what I learned yesterday. With one militia uplink I get 500+ wp. That would solve the guys problem, correct?
deezy dabest 2143	Posted - 2015.02.08 21:19:00 - [35] - Quote Obliv wrote: You can lead a horse to water..... I am just passing on what I learned yesterday. With one militia uplink I get 500+ wp. That would solve the guys problem, correct? Unfortunately it does not always solve the problem. Some stomps will prevent links from being any real help to you as they get popped before you get your first spawn on them. If you manage to escape and get a link far away then you are golden and the limit will not be an issue. Aside from being insta popped by smart deploy being camped there is the issue of other people putting out links negating your ability to get points. Ambush OMS the 150 WP requirement is fine but the 50 man ambush really should not have any requirement at all. It just ends far too fast in many cases.
Sleepy Shadow Qualified Scrub 257	Posted - 2015.02.08 21:20:00 - [36] - Quote Regis Blackbird wrote: However with that said, unless you know the lifetime SP of the people you listed, and the secret "VET threshold" CCP implemented, there is no way you can state those people didn't get any SP, since the minimum WP requirement only applies to VETs. Although you got 0 SP, you still got ISK and salvage, right? So you can't say you got nothing (At least I did when I didn't met the requirements) And ask yourself, how much SP would you really have gotten from 125WP? Compare that to your lifetime SP, and you will see that it really doesn't matter. Dusted off one of my alts this weekend and had little over 10 MIL SP on it. Anything above 10 MIL is considered a vet but I donGÇÖt know where the line is drawn; I donGÇÖt have any alts with less than 10 MIL. Regardless, even if it was very little SP I still want it. I have more than enough ISK and I suppose SP too, but I still want my SP reward after a battle. Every bit help towards whatever goal I have going. =ƒÿ¦
Obliv Shining Flame Amarr Empire 27	Posted - 2015.02.08 21:25:00 - [37] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: Obliv wrote: You can lead a horse to water..... I am just passing on what I learned yesterday. With one militia uplink I get 500+ wp. That would solve the guys problem, correct? Unfortunately it does not always solve the problem. Some stomps will prevent links from being any real help to you as they get popped before you get your first spawn on them. If you manage to escape and get a link far away then you are golden and the limit will not be an issue. Aside from being insta popped by smart deploy being camped there is the issue of other people putting out links negating your ability to get points. Ambush OMS the 150 WP requirement is fine but the 50 man ambush really should not have any requirement at all. It just ends far too fast in many cases. I wasn't trying to provoke an arguement. I'm sorry. I haven't been sleeping much. There's actually two uplinks in the militia pack but you can only put one down at a time. I just spawn and start looking for a good place to put them. I try to get around behind the red guys. You have to shoot people too. All those +25 add up. I watch the hurt guys rotate to the back and kill them first.
Sleepy Shadow Qualified Scrub 257	Posted - 2015.02.08 21:35:00 - [38] - Quote Obliv wrote: You can lead a horse to water..... I am just passing on what I learned yesterday. With one militia uplink I get 500+ wp. That would solve the guys problem, correct? If everyone on your team drops one or even two uplinks, so 16 or 32 links on the field, how many WP do you think that will be per person? Would you be able to make 500 WP from links alone? GÇ£Git gudGÇ¥ and GÇ£I alwaysGÇ¥ are not solutions to anything. You may be able to scrape enough WP to get your SP but the same tactics wonGÇÖt work for everyone on your team. Also, MLT Uplink only has 10 spawns. So the absolute max you can get from it is 250 WP. Enough to get your SP though : ) =ƒÿ¦
dust514 loves bunghole Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 4	Posted - 2015.02.08 21:36:00 - [39] - Quote if you cant get 150 just delete dust. your to worthless to play
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 716	Posted - 2015.02.08 21:40:00 - [40] - Quote The Eristic wrote: I spent the match chasing a tank around the map to keep them from focusing on the letter. Only 125 Were you just chasing it in a dropsuit and not getting shot? Because if you pulled a forge/swarm or even some AV grenades, you'd have easily gotten 2 lots of 75 wp. Tanks are quite literally wp pinatas.

Aeon Amadi Chimera Core 8539	Posted - 2015.02.08 21:42:00 - [41] - Quote dust514 loves bunghole wrote: if you cant get 150 just delete dust. your to worthless to play Will do, just as long you delete Dust 514 off your PS3 the -INSTANT- you don't land 150 WP in Ambush (which -will- happen) so that you're not a hypocrite. Have a suggestion for the Planetary Services Department? *Founder of AIV*
The Eristic Dust 90210 787	Posted - 2015.02.08 21:44:00 - [42] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: Were you just chasing it in a dropsuit and not getting shot? Because if you pulled a forge/swarm or even some AV grenades, you'd have easily gotten 2 lots of 75 wp. Tanks are quite literally wp pinatas. Plasma Cannon Scout. First shot or nade, he hardens and runs, repeat. No points. Reality is the original Rorschach. Verily! So much for all that.
SgtMajSquish MLBJ Consolidated Dust 338	Posted - 2015.02.08 22:11:00 - [43] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: I gotta ask... Are these full matches that people are failing to get over 150 wp? Even vs protato squads you should be getting more than that. Think about it, your team is dying (probably a lot) just put some useful spawn points down, or sneak about and hack stuff. But that would require spending ISKies on equipment and actually trying to help. CoD CoD CoD herp derp derp Rise and shine CCP. It's time to implement ping based match making.
Slave of MORTE Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic 274	Posted - 2015.02.08 22:34:00 - [44] - Quote Lol they should a just increased reward system ..to give proper rewards for risk terrible pub payouts started afking and now there is a function that doesn't fix the problem and harms new unskilled players like Aeon tsk. Tsk ccp Yet another slave of Mortedeamor
Nirwanda Vaughns 1400	Posted - 2015.02.08 22:42:00 - [45] - Quote i feel yours, just as anyone elses opinion on this matter will just get the regular 'get good' idiots posting. its a poor mechanic and a lazy fix for the AFK issue. hell its not stopped AFk so all its doing is harming peopel who get stomped. i was in a game other evening and was 5th and only just got 150wp. every one else below me got 125 or less points. thats 2/3s the f*kin team not geting sp due to stomping tryhards. if CCP really feel the need to keep the minimum WP then at least remove it from Ambush because half the time the game is over so quick when you come up against a stomp team you don't get chance to earn points. Never argue with an idiot. they bring you down to their level and beat you through experience proud C-II bpo owner*
LUGMOS Corrosive Synergy 1970	Posted - 2015.02.08 22:44:00 - [46] - Quote This system only affects "vets" Newbies are not up for this system, and get paid regardless. Again, where the line is drawn is unknown ATM. However, this is only a big problem in spambush. Simple solution: get rid of it for ambush. Is it really so simple? probably not, as it is not as easy as it seems. Since it is an addition to EOM payouts IN GENERAL, it is difficult to limit it to only Dom and Skirm. Is it impossible? Probably not. So get on it devs Official QuafeGäó Advocate Anti-FoTM Prof. V Forum Scavenger Prof. V
Piercing Serenity PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 847	Posted - 2015.02.08 23:21:00 - [47] - Quote I don't think that there is any system that will be without some terrible flaw. Yes, it sure does suck to be the one or three people in a match who tried really hard and still did not get anything. That's not a sarcastic statement, either. It sucks. However, I think it sucks more, for a larger number of people, to feel like all of your hard work is equal to someone who didn't do anything all match. This system has two large improvements to me, compared to the current system: Your work in battle is more valuable. If you do well, you will get rewarded much more than someone who does poorly It is theoretically possible for everyone to do well enough to get rewarded appropriately Closed Beta Vet (E3 Build), Former PFBHz Best Corps Battled (Personally): Imperfects, TeamPlayers, Hellstorm
Nirwanda Vaughns 1401	Posted - 2015.02.08 23:47:00 - [48] - Quote i admit on my main when i logi and pull in 21k sp without boosters its pretty f*kin beutiful hahaha the extra sp for wp vets get is great. its just that teh times i run into stompers and don't get sp outweighs that extra sp over time so is not really a bonus i'm happy for th eminimum wp to be in for skirm and doms but for ambush the matches don't last long enough and puts pressure of players to get 150 wp than actually assist the team properly Never argue with an idiot. they bring you down to their level and beat you through experience proud C-II bpo owner*
S-PANZA Expert Intervention Caldari State 118	Posted - 2015.02.09 00:17:00 - [49] - Quote I also dont like the minimum... Id like it more if you got to keep the WP earned up to the 150 even without the bonus. It just seems like a waste of time if you dont receive what youve earned.
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 661	Posted - 2015.02.09 00:40:00 - [50] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: If the WP Minimum was implemented to keep people from AFKing, then Ambush shouldn't be in the equation because it's nigh impossible to AFK through an Ambush. This is a pretty good point. I really don't think it is effective in any event. I can drop some long lasting uplinks and go afk and still make good SP/Isk in a dom or skirm. But even if it is more effective than I think -- yeah -- in Ambush you aren't AFKing really so -- I don't see the point in having it there.

Reign Omega T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K General Tso's Alliance 1219	Posted - 2015.02.09 00:43:00 - [51] - Quote I haven't played since warlords deployed but..3 revives is 150 wp right? Mark a$$ tricks, and bags of dicks....
TritusX PH4NT0M5 248	Posted - 2015.02.09 00:47:00 - [52] - Quote So this is why you left the match right away after Kalante killed you Forced Death
DootDoot Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 409	Posted - 2015.02.09 01:07:00 - [53] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: I gotta ask... Are these full matches that people are failing to get over 150 wp? Even vs protato squads you should be getting more than that. Think about it, your team is dying (probably a lot) just put some useful spawn points down, or sneak about and hack stuff. WTF magical bubble world do you live in. Put yourself in the game. Your in a squad of friends who casually play DUST. You que up for ambush. Get put in a 50 clone match. The enemy group spawns 150m Away. Their group consists of two squads of 6 and 4 of veteran PC players running proto. Your team will get stomped off their spawn in less then 2 minutes. Scouts will be removing spawn pads as fast as you lay them. You can't even respawn and move without being shot. There is nothing to hack. You can't call in a vehicle. Your only hope at this point is trying to spawn with a scout and sneak away without being scanned to try and put an uplink down to get any kind of points praying enough want to spawn back in even so you can get 150 WP. 50 clone ambushes make no sense to have this limit. Ambushes make EVEN LESS sense to have an AFK mechanic to punish AFK'ers not contributing IN AN AMBUSH...... Where are they hiding? If they hide and not die? Are they really creating a negative situation in an ambush? Why are there even WP limits in the entire Ambush game mode? This should be the entry level game mode that every player goes to first.... Its a simple deathmatch... Why are we penalizing players who actually play the game? Because they aren't good enough? Like WTF is wrong with people on these forums.
Reign Omega T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K General Tso's Alliance 1219	Posted - 2015.02.09 01:11:00 - [54] - Quote DootDoot wrote: Derpty Derp wrote: I gotta ask... Are these full matches that people are failing to get over 150 wp? Even vs protato squads you should be getting more than that. Think about it, your team is dying (probably a lot) just put some useful spawn points down, or sneak about and hack stuff. WTF magical bubble world do you live in. Put yourself in the game. Your in a squad of friends who casually play DUST. You que up for ambush. Get put in a 50 clone match. The enemy group spawns 150m Away. Their group consists of two squads of 6 and 4 of veteran PC players running proto. Your team will get stomped off their spawn in less then 2 minutes. Scouts will be removing spawn pads as fast as you lay them. You can't even respawn and move without being shot. There is nothing to hack. You can't call in a vehicle. Your only hope at this point is trying to spawn with a scout and sneak away without being scanned to try and put an uplink down to get any kind of points praying enough want to spawn back in even so you can get 150 WP. 50 clone ambushes make no sense to have this limit. Ambushes make EVEN LESS sense to have an AFK mechanic to punish AFK'ers not contributing IN AN AMBUSH...... Where are they hiding? If they hide and not die? Are they really creating a negative situation in an ambush? Why are there even WP limits in the entire Ambush game mode? This should be the entry level game mode that every player goes to first.... Its a simple deathmatch... Why are we penalizing players who actually play the game? Because they aren't good enough? Like WTF is wrong with people on these forums. Mlt fit with needle? Mark a$$ tricks, and bags of dicks....
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2483	Posted - 2015.02.09 01:15:00 - [55] - Quote i had my first match yesterday where i earned 0 sp, was kinda cool Spawned in late, our warbarge was down to ~50% armour enemy at ~50% shields(thought that was fixed), ran around the outside, dropped two uplinks, killed two mercs, died once, match ended in a loss ofc. Not complaining at all because in a standard skirmish i'm making 12 to 18 thousand sp now, considerably more than before. How are new peeps finding the time-based sp payouts? Are they good enough to help the struggling newbros get a leg up? PSN: RationalSpark
Pseudogenesis nos nothi 1647	Posted - 2015.02.09 01:44:00 - [56] - Quote Eh, too much QQ for my taste. 150 WP is nothing. Drop a single uplink and have 6 people spawn on it. Rep a person for 6 armor. Get 3 kills. Drop some nanohives. Do any of the above, in any combination, and you're set. If you can't pull that off then no offense, but you didn't deserve the SP. They are called Skill Points for a reason. Stabby-stabber extraordinaire Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉn¦ñ I stabbed Rattati once, you know.
xavier zor nos nothi 623	Posted - 2015.02.09 02:27:00 - [57] - Quote Stefan Stahl wrote: Today during a skirmish I got 148 WP as a NDS pilot. I was busy all match, got a couple transport assists and even 3 kill assists from blueberry gunners (these are seldom!). 0 SP payout. i honestly wouldn't care now, i get 1k SP as it is with thiss ***** sp glitch ***** useless devs new home <3

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 16925	Posted - 2015.02.09 02:42:00 - [58] - Quote I think you just hate ambush? We tried to fix ambush spawn mechanics, which were random, more like BF/COD, just spawn away in the distance, but then the blob was invincible. The current mechanic tries to put you close to the hub of your teammates, but if they are being massacred, it's not good either. Then we get into "if X deaths in area, then not spawn close to friends, just in outer rims", and that isn't easy either. Any super smart ideas? "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Alex-ZX Valor Coalition Red Whines. 235	Posted - 2015.02.09 02:46:00 - [59] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I think you just hate ambush? We tried to fix ambush spawn mechanics, which were random, more like BF/COD, just spawn away in the distance, but then the blob was invincible. The current mechanic tries to put you close to the hub of your teammates, but if they are being massacred, it's not good either. Then we get into "if X deaths in area, then not spawn close to friends, just in outer rims", and that isn't easy either. Any super smart ideas? A system that I saw that worked pretty good was like in MAG, suppression had something like big boxes where ppl spawn and of course enemies can't get close because of the red line. Or like in killzone after a certain amount of kills it just throws u to the opposite side of the map. Alex's modified ZX-030 HMG Luis' modified VC-107 CR Alex's modified VC-107 SMG *Owner of this beasts*
Nirwanda Vaughns 1401	Posted - 2015.02.09 02:48:00 - [60] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I think you just hate ambush? We tried to fix ambush spawn mechanics, which were random, more like BF/COD, just spawn away in the distance, but then the blob was invincible. The current mechanic tries to put you close to the hub of your teammates, but if they are being massacred, it's not good either. Then we get into "if X deaths in area, then not spawn close to friends, just in outer rims", and that isn't easy either. Any super smart ideas? howabout the grid method someone mentioned months ago? basically the map is divided into 5x5 grids. you pick a square and it drops you somewhere in that grid. if you choose one with reddots its your own fault for team/squad not having scanners. it also helps flanking too. Never argue with an idiot. they bring you down to their level and beat you through experience proud C-II bpo owner



Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

Official QuafeGäó Advocate