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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Vesta Opalus
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
General Tso's Alliance
399
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Posted - 2015.02.09 18:36:00 -
[1] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Nothing like running ADV/Proto gear against a proto-stomp team in Ambush only to come out with 125 WP and not get any SP for the match. Just shelling out ISK for nothing at this point. Under current mechanics, none of these people would have received SP: http://i.imgur.com/x5zqCs0.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/r1OsMSi.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/XIbZFiZ.pngYOU -WILL- READ THE BELOW BEFORE MAKING COMMENTS The question you have to ask is: What meaningful function does the WP Minimum implement? What is it supposed to do, who is it supposed to affect, and who gets caught the crossfire unnecessarily? If the WP Minimum was implemented to keep people from AFKing, then Ambush shouldn't be in the equation because it's nigh impossible to AFK through an Ambush. YOU -WILL- READ THE ABOVE BEFORE MAKING COMMENTS
The WP minimum functions to influence vets to get off their ass and get more than 125 god damned WP.
If you honestly cant get more than that you should just stop playing. Not even kidding, go find something else to have fun with that wont make you feel like you are a bumbling idiot.
I cant even remember the last time I got <150WP unless I was afk eating a sandwich the whole game. |
Vesta Opalus
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
General Tso's Alliance
399
|
Posted - 2015.02.09 18:47:00 -
[2] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Pagl1u M wrote:If a vet cant Reach 150 WP, he totally deserves to be rewarded with 0 SP, ambush or not. Because it means that that vet wasnt even trying at all. Period. Explain to me why. Sequal's Back wrote:Pagl1u M wrote:If a vet cant Reach 150 WP, he totally deserves to be rewarded with 0 SP, ambush or not. Because it means that that vet wasnt even trying at all. Period. I totally agree with you. Again, explain to me why. Adipem Nothi wrote:
Would've done exactly the same thing. Insufficient incentive to play an unplayable match. Suggestion:
Oops! Something went wrong with Scotty the Matchmaking AI. Your odds of successfully navigating the upcoming stomp are approximately 3,720:1. Stompees will be paid end-of-match compensation of 3000 SP, 100 Barge Components. and 300k Isk (plus face value of all gear destroyed). Do you wish to deploy?
That'd make too much sense, Adipem. You know what would make even more sense then that? Tieracide, maybe meta-level limited match setups, an actual match-maker... or just removing the stupid WP minimum altogether. The hilarious part here is that I just see people saying, "Herp derp if you can't hit 150 WP you deserve 0" but no-one seems to be explaining -WHY-. I keep asking why, I keep asking the functionality, but no-one has a good answer - hell they don't have any answers, just the same trolling non-sense of, "git gud", like they've -never- had a bad match where they just got annihilated. And I -refuse- to stop arguing against it BECAUSE it doesn't have a justifiable explanation. I won't stop until someone can come in here and say, "This is why: -insert justifiable, reasonable argument as to why a player should not just stop playing because they'd be wasting their time otherwise-". What freaggin incentive do I have to even stay in the match if by 25 clones I haven't hit the minimum -already-? Why should I stay at all, if looking at the team-setups I see a whole squad of 'x' corporation that I know will be running high-end gear?
In-game justification: if you dont perform your job (you're a mercenary after all), you dont get paid.
Out-game justification: Learn to play and help your team. One uplink can get you like 300-400 WP if you dont place it in a moronic place, 3 kills will get you enough WP, rep tools, nanohives, hacking OMS installations, damaging vehicles, and so on and so forth.
How about you justify people getting any kind of reward when they perform so badly that they can't even hit 150 WP?
I might support a better system if you can think one up, but I have zero problem with a system like this being in place. |
Vesta Opalus
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
General Tso's Alliance
399
|
Posted - 2015.02.09 19:15:00 -
[3] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Nothing like running ADV/Proto gear against a proto-stomp team in Ambush only to come out with 125 WP and not get any SP for the match. Just shelling out ISK for nothing at this point. Under current mechanics, none of these people would have received SP: http://i.imgur.com/x5zqCs0.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/r1OsMSi.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/XIbZFiZ.pngYOU -WILL- READ THE BELOW BEFORE MAKING COMMENTS The question you have to ask is: What meaningful function does the WP Minimum implement? What is it supposed to do, who is it supposed to affect, and who gets caught the crossfire unnecessarily? If the WP Minimum was implemented to keep people from AFKing, then Ambush shouldn't be in the equation because it's nigh impossible to AFK through an Ambush. YOU -WILL- READ THE ABOVE BEFORE MAKING COMMENTS The WP minimum functions to influence vets to get off their ass and get more than 125 god damned WP. If you honestly cant get more than that you should just stop playing. Not even kidding, go find something else to have fun with that wont make you feel like you are a bumbling idiot. I cant even remember the last time I got <150WP unless I was afk eating a sandwich the whole game. And it -will- happen to you at some point. One of these days you're going to get <150WP and not get anything because the stars aligned and you got screwed over, simple as that. Try running Ambush with all militia/standard gear and come back and say that it doesn't happen. I dare you to -live stream it- if you're THAT confident that you will never -EVER- have <150WP in an Ambush match. You're going to slap yourself silly when you realize just how broken and dumb this mechanic is.
My alt is 100% invested in vehicles and has to run normal ambushes in starter gear/militia suits. I may have gotten <150 WP in a match but I dont remember it. Even in starter suits, it is not difficult for a vet player who knows what they are doing to get 150.
I dont know about you but I have no problem not getting SP when I do nothing for the team, even if it is an outlier in terms of performance.
Aeon Amadi wrote:
So now we need to justify being rewarded for playing the game in the first place, in a game-mode that is -really hard- to exploit mechanics for AFK purposes..? See my last post. Why stop at 150 WP? If I were a mercenary contractor, (by the way, I'm not a mercenary just because the game says I am), I'd want the best of the best of the best. I'd set a hard limit of 1000 WP. If you can't manage that, no pay.
But it isn't ISK... It's SP. You still get the ISK. You don't get the SP. It's like saying that you don't learn from the experience, that the Active Boosters are worthless because you're "not gud nuff" or because the game just decides that you deserve to be spawn camped in from the start of the match.
I digress. It's a shoddy game mechanic. It's built out of vengeance and ego. There's no -real- functionality behind it other than "Well, I don't think that guy is putting forth the effort despite going 1/7 in that last match."
The reward for playing a game is having fun, the mechanics of the game or in game rewards can take away or add to that, so its up to you to decide if playing the game is fun or not. If it isnt fun I would suggest not playing it.
I dont see how its hard to afk in ambush game mode, all you have to do is keep spawning in. I've seen more jumping afk starter AV fits in ambush than any other game mode.
Why stop at 150 WP? I dunno, you can make an argument for whatever you want, the specific number might seem to high or too low, I think 150 WP is fair enough and I rarely see anyone who isnt running around aimlessly or sitting around afk get less than that.
It penalizes SP over ISK because: ISK is the fuel that keeps a clone running, penalizing ISK would make it harder to run dropsuits in the future, thus creating a negative performance feedback resulting in worse and worse chances to make the WP minimum, SP penalty just leaves you where you were before the match. ISK is not relevant to many players, and most people dont afk in matches to win ISK. SP is the number that means something to the players behind the clone, so you have to penalize that number to make anything stick.
As for being spawn ****** by ambush, or the WP minimum being a shoddy mechanic in generally: I agree. This is CCP we're talking about here, and Im not sure why anyone ever queues up for ambush without expecting to be screwed over every once and a while. And again, if you can suggest something better I'd be all for it (but I dont think having no minimum at all is better). |
Vesta Opalus
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
General Tso's Alliance
400
|
Posted - 2015.02.09 19:25:00 -
[4] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:RayRay James wrote:
You keep asking for why? Here's my opinion
The 150 WP minimum is for Vets only. I'm unaware of what the level is the constituted a vet, but I've heard it range anywhere from 10 mil SP to 30 Mil SP.
For the sake of argument, let's split that number and call it 20 Mil SP
With 20 mil sp, you have been playing for a while. You understand the game mechanics, how weapons affect suits (and vice versa) you understand the roles of suits, the differences in races and have played more than enough matches to take that knowledge and apply it appropriately.
With the combination of that knowledge and experience, and as a vet, you have to TRY and not get 150 WP if you're actively playing. Kills, Assists, Links, reps, hives, needles, scans, hacking (no ambush obviously), etc all give you the ability to get anywhere from +5 SP (killing enemy equipment) to +100 SP (Hacking) even +150 if you manage to kill a tank.
With all of the options afforded to you to get SP, 150 is not a tough barrier to crack. Since this was implemented, I have in ONE MATCH not hit the 150 WP and that was because the match was nearly over before I joined the fight. I did still manage to get 125 WP.
I got isk, I got not skill points, so i pulled up my big boy pants and deployed into another match.
That is the answer to "Why?"
Copy and paste that entire text, attach it in an e-mail, and send it to the 13 players on the enemy team who got screwed over in this video that I posted. You telling me 13 people didn't put forth the effort? You telling me that their entire team only killing -EIGHT PEOPLE- they'd manage to get the assists and necessary warpoints, in five minutes, it should be fair that the veterans on their team basically just wasted their time?
Looks horrible, but I'd blame matchmaking here, not the WP minimum.
That said, I've been saying if you have a better system, speak up. Maybe we could add in a rule to the WP minimum that goes something like this: If more than half the team fails to meet the minimum, dont penalize anyone.
But again removing the minimum is not a solution just because theres one game out of 100 that is such a brutal stomp that the other team genuinely did not have the chance to make the minimum WP. |
Vesta Opalus
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
General Tso's Alliance
400
|
Posted - 2015.02.09 19:38:00 -
[5] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:
So you believe that players should deal with being screwed over by a spawn system you admit is shoddy... and a gameplay mechanic you admit is shoddy... because we have no other viable option besides -not- screwing them over.
I think we're done here. Be sure to watch the video I posted above, maybe weigh in on your (somewhat elitest) perspective a bit.
No I dont believe players should deal with being screwed over by the ambush spawn system. Thats why I rarely play it. I dont understand why other people do play it to be honest, but this is apparently the spawn system we are stuck with, and people playing ambush should expect to be ****** over by it in the long run.
And again, the WP mechanic is pretty flat and unforgiving, but again, if you have suggestions Im 100% open to improving it.
RE: Elitist. I don't think theres anything at all elitist about wanting everyone on the team to put forth some effort to achieve a common goal. If anything thats a populist position. But hey opinions may vary. |
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