Simply remove Components and Scrap Metal from the list of tradeable goodies when Simple Trading comes out.

That's the obvious fix. Alt farming of any kind is not playing the game.

That's the obvious fix. Alt farming of any kind is not playing the game.

That's the obvious fix. Alt farming of any kind is not playing the game.

That's the obvious fix. Alt farming of any kind is not playing the game.

That's the obvious fix. Alt farming of any kind is not playing the game.

Or make the war barge an account wide feature like AUR is. Limits alt farming but doesn't keep players from legitimate trading between players.

That's the obvious fix. Alt farming of any kind is not playing the game.

Any way to have a more elegant solution that doesn't involve limiting the player economy down the road? Really all assests should be tradable.

Why?

Because EVE?

Honest question. You are basically saying "All games should have all assets tradeable all the time". Not to start a huge argument, and I still know this will flare up, but because EVE is not a reason.

Especially with PSN accounts being completely different from EVE accounts, since, you know, they have to pay a subscription to alt farm.

That's the obvious fix. Alt farming of any kind is not playing the game.

Well, I would like to be able to have my Corp mates to be able to give components or trade them for isk.

I am assuming that one of the future phases for rebooted PC will involve all corp warbarges somehow linking up for added benefits. For example, maybe you will be able to allocate a percentage of your warbarge production to go to the corp stockpiles.

Either way, if components can be transferred to corp in the future, or individual mercs with simple player trading more imminently, in a large enough amount, then farming might be something we want to address now.

As for those sinking money into their warbarges - imagine doing that on separate accounts thereby negating the need to pay for the upgrade timer to elapse.

Why?

Because EVE?

Honest question. You are basically saying "All games should have all assets tradeable all the time". Not to start a huge argument, and I still know this will flare up, but because EVE is not a reason.

Especially with PSN accounts being completely different from EVE accounts, since, you know, they have to pay a subscription to alt farm.

An elegant way is to auto-donate a contribution to the corp warbarge, help yourself and help the corp at the same time, win win

CCP Rattati,

The more I think about it though the more it seems that it would make more sense to change the first slot on the barge to something that just increases your chances of getting warbarge components at EOM or increases the quantity when you do get drops. This would eliminate the passive aspect of barge generation, reward players for playing more, and allow players to pay to grind less.

Last, it would kill off any issue regarding alt farming of components without limiting player freedom in the economy, which I think is going to become a truly key pillar of Dust once you all implement trading and simple crafting.

Why?

Because EVE?

Honest question. You are basically saying "All games should have all assets tradeable all the time". Not to start a huge argument, and I still know this will flare up, but because EVE is not a reason.

Especially with PSN accounts being completely different from EVE accounts, since, you know, they have to pay a subscription to alt farm.

Not because EVE. Because auto taxing components would make some people choose to not be in a corp to avoid the tax. Auto tax also doesn't solve alt farming.

Making warbarges persistent across accounts limits alt farming while still allowing free trade of components.

Alt farming won't stop at components either, experimental weapons can be traded too. Alt farms again.

Not Because EVE at all.

With all assets being tradeable basically any arguments around what items are available for ISK or AUR go out the window. If simple trading doesn't allow things like boosters and BPOs to be traded I will consider the implementation a failure.

On components, I think that any system that shows that it can be abused by alt farming in a free market just means that it has core problems that need to be addressed. Active generation of items should always be the main driving force for any asset creation including Warbarge components.

I would be much happier with the barge system if there was no passive generation of components at all. Rather than claiming components passively give players a consistent EOM drops that they put into the factory to generate components for example. A better factory generates components from EOM drops faster or as in the current system can convert a higher maximum EOM drops per day. If you add a time component to converting an EOM drop to components you could always then add an option to pay to speed up the conversion.

WIthout the ability to trade components though it will vastly limit the component's ability to be used as a commodity and a potential resource. I think you all have created something that could be a perfect resource to generate from active play in pubs but more so planetary conquest. The passive generation through the mobile factories on alts though puts a damper on things and I think the issue with free alts shows a flaw in the system.

Components being soul-locked to a character makes the whole system just feel like a different form of passive SP that I just happen to be able to buy more of than a tangible resource I'm using to build and upgrade my own personal vessel.

---

CCP Rattati,

The more I think about it though the more it seems that it would make more sense to change the first slot on the barge to something that just increases your chances of getting warbarge components at EOM or increases the quantity when you do get drops. This would eliminate the passive aspect of barge generation, reward players for playing more, and allow players to pay to grind less.

Last, it would kill off any issue regarding alt farming of components without limiting player freedom in the economy, which I think is going to become a truly key pillar of Dust once you all implement trading and simple crafting.

I would have to agree with Kane here.
There is a core issue with passive component generation.

What if we tied component generation as a per-battle thing with the mobile factory providing a multiplier?

Any way to have a more elegant solution that doesn't involve limiting the player economy down the road? Really all assests should be tradable.

That's the obvious fix. Alt farming of any kind is not playing the game.

Why?

Because EVE?

Honest question. You are basically saying "All games should have all assets tradeable all the time". Not to start a huge argument, and I still know this will flare up, but because EVE is not a reason.

Especially with PSN accounts being completely different from EVE accounts, since, you know, they have to pay a subscription to alt farm.

I think the main issue here is that a mechanic has been implemented that requires patience and time.

Neither is paying real money for the components playing a game ;).

^ What he said. +1

You are both smart lads, find or create a more elegant solution and link me on it I will be sure that our grand blue overlords see it

Cheers,
Cross

CCP Rattati,

The more I think about it though the more it seems that it would make more sense to change the first slot on the barge to something that just increases your chances of getting warbarge components at EOM or increases the quantity when you do get drops. This would eliminate the passive aspect of barge generation, reward players for playing more, and allow players to pay to grind less.

Last, it would kill off any issue regarding alt farming of components without limiting player freedom in the economy, which I think is going to become a truly key pillar of Dust once you all implement trading and simple crafting.

Already done:

But it is keeping the servers online so that the game can be played
(That being said refinements to the current component system are actively being explored).

Cheers,
Cross

Would it be a problem to have components be manufactured based on a games played or in-game-time aspect so that it still rewards effort, but isn't necessarily chance and still allows noobs to be on an even playing field?

There have been a lot of issues with some of the EOM salvage *cough* strong boxes *cough* and I don't want the WB to be subject to some of the same problems.

if only all this effort on stupid components and useless warbarges was redirected and focused on getting pve into the game.

... find or create a more elegant solution and link me on it ...

I dont know if anyone said this yet, but what if "Warbarge generation" was just like "passive SP", in terms that the passive can only be active on 1 character at a time. The logic being that there is no need to have 3 warbarges ready to go when only 1 character is active. So while the one on the active account is generating, the others are powered down with their factories idle.

This way, we could keep trading open, because you wouldnt be able to alt warbarge farm on your main PSN account. That would eliminate 90% of alt farming. Sure, some people will attempt it by using multiple PSN accounts, but i mean, people like that, they were going to find a way to cheat the system no matter what anyway.

Sure, some people will attempt it by using multiple PSN accounts, but i mean, people like that, they were going to find a way to cheat the system no matter what anyway.

Disagree, and surely no reason not to prevent the more obvious "hacks"? The harder it is to exploit, the less people will do it and the less negative impact it will have.

While I like the idea, I think the problem is not so much can it be abused, but how greatly will that abuse affect gameplay and any potential future economy.

When you think about the way that passive ISK in PC created a farming mechanic, it didn't take a significant portion of the population to cause problems.

I would rather they be more actively gained, or untraded if gained passively in any way.

The way I see it, the best solution is:

1) Severely reduce both the starting components and the amount required for the very first warbarge upgrade. 300 components will always encourage alt farming and it's not even necessary since the only thing you can spend it on is the first upgrade. Reduce it to maybe something like 50.

2) As others have said, make components gained actively, not passively. Have the component subsystem modify the number of components received per match, not just provide free components all the time.

If you do both of these then I see no problem with allowing components to be traded.


Oh yeah guys, why don't you just have your QA testers work on new art assets, and have your programmers just make AI! Simple, right?

I dont know if anyone said this yet, but what if "Warbarge generation" was just like "passive SP", in terms that the passive can only be active on 1 character at a time. The logic being that there is no need to have 3 warbarges ready to go when only 1 character is active. So while the one on the active account is generating, the others are powered down with their factories idle.

This way, we could keep trading open, because you wouldnt be able to alt warbarge farm on your main PSN account. That would eliminate 90% of alt farming. Sure, some people will attempt it by using multiple PSN accounts, but i mean, people like that, they were going to find a way to cheat the system no matter what anyway.

That's the obvious fix. Alt farming of any kind is not playing the game.

Alt farming is the only reasonable way to upgrade and use the warbarge before I die of old age.

Why?

Because EVE?

Honest question. You are basically saying "All games should have all assets tradeable all the time". Not to start a huge argument, and I still know this will flare up, but because EVE is not a reason.

Especially with PSN accounts being completely different from EVE accounts, since, you know, they have to pay a subscription to alt farm.

Can we all agree in advance on what is a reasonably sized Alt Farm?
I'd like some actual play time in, but it'll be hard to keep up with Kain's 30.

I've got two PSNs, I hardly doubt I'll be able to maintain logging in on 6 characters to claim the components every two days. The alts are only 4 days old and I'm already tired of it.

[...]

There was little information (zero) on the mechanics of the upgrading or the functionality of the laboratory.

[...]

I wass under the understanding that my stack of monthly Eve Subs were doing that, well thats good to know at least there is a use for the unnecesary PTW factor being grossly abused by CCP in this case.

My 10+ alt PSN accounts would beg to differ with this idea.

Why?

Because EVE?

EVE and Dust 514 are separate projects that do not share a budget despite sharing world lore. There is, to the best of my knowledge, no fiscal overlap between the projects whatsoever.

EVE and Dust 514 are separate projects that do not share a budget despite sharing world lore. There is, to the best of my knowledge, no fiscal overlap between the projects whatsoever.