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Jebus McKing Nos Nothi 1369	Posted - 2015.02.01 08:44:00 - [1] - Quote I was curious about why it seems that the ScR does so much more damage than I would expect from a weapon with almost 100m effective range so I ran some tests and checked how fast I can pull the trigger and in how much dps that would result. On average I was able to fire ~6.67 shots per second. Now I'm not really good at using a ScR so I'd expect someone who uses it regularly might achieve even more rounds than that. If we now take the viziam ScR base damage of 71.5 and multiply that with 6.67 rounds per second we get a dps of ~477. That's 5% more than the dps of the Duvolle AR (453) which has an effective range of only 70m. And that's even 20% more than the dps of the Kaalakiota RR (397) which has an effective range of 100m. In summary: Viziam ScR - 477dps - 96m range Duvolle AR - 453dps - 70m range Kaalakiota RR - 397dps - 100m range To me that explains why I always have the feeling that my shields simply disappear instantly even when the ScR did not charge the shot, and why even my armor doesn't help a lot when I come up against a ScR. On top of the best dps and close to best range the ScR also gets the ability to charge shots giving the ScR quite the head start in many fights, which is a huge advantage, obviously. Now some might say "b-but heat built-up". Even with only level 1 in ScR I was able to easily deal ~1250 damage with a STD ScR before overheating, which is only ~160 damage less than an ADV(!) ACR has in its whole clip. If you use an Amarr Assault and regularly play with the ScR I think it is save to say heat becomes almost a non-issue. Jebus still hates scans.
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP 2011	Posted - 2015.02.01 09:00:00 - [2] - Quote The ScR is a single shot weapon which requires precision. If you are using anything other than the Amarr Assault missing a charge shot is nearly a death sentence. All this whining over the ScR from shield users while us armor based users get smashed in even less time with more eHP by a CR and there is less than half as many threads talking about that. I feel like there is a correlation between being a shield tanker and being a big baby. At least you presented your thread with some science even tho you were starting with a set goal in mind that was likely manipulated by all the actual whiners on the forums. LOL if you think it is bad now, just wait til this dumb ass 5% from warbarges starts off setting the armor penalty. When combined with a couple of damage mods TTK against ScR and CR is going to go to NOTHING.
pumping up Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 126	Posted - 2015.02.01 09:12:00 - [3] - Quote Only that cr can't be fired 5 times a second. Help me gain the C-II Dropsuit Pilot & Saboteur
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP 2012	Posted - 2015.02.01 09:15:00 - [4] - Quote pumping up wrote: Only that cr can't be fired 5 times a second. Why does it need to when any armor suit aside from a heavy or very brick tanked assault goes down in less than a second. It really comes back to the fact that the ScR and CR fall outside of the bounds of the normal TTK. With how low TTK is falling any way under that gives a certain shock value which leads to threads like this. Of course a player who never has a chance to fight back against one weapon when any other weapon is an actual battle is going to scream OP. Its all good at least CCP is going to make this problem worse with a free damage modifier for everyone.
Alena Ventrallis Intara Direct Action Caldari State 2514	Posted - 2015.02.01 09:33:00 - [5] - Quote If there was no overheat, you might have a point. Listen to my muscle memory Contemplate what I've been clinging to Forty-six and two ahead of me
Jebus McKing Nos Nothi 1369	Posted - 2015.02.01 10:01:00 - [6] - Quote So I used the exact same method of testing with the CR as well. On average I was able to fire ~15.2 shots per second, which results in a dps of ~451 (Boundless CR damage = 29.7). A dps of 451 is almost on par with the dps of an AR (453), though the CR has a 20% better effective range than the AR. So there certainly is room for tweaking as well. The point though still remains that the ScR performs much better, especially when you compare it to the RR which has a similar range and got its stats reduced multiple times because of that. Also the ScR performs very good in both close and long range engagements where the other rifles have at least some disadvantage in either. As I said before, someone who uses a ScR regularly, and possibly even uses an Amarr Assaut, won't have too many problems with managing the heat built-up - same as CR users don't have problems with finding the right "rhythm", as you can't just pull the trigger as fast as you can because that will actually reduce your dps. The ability to charge shots also is a huge advantage because it massively reduces the time for an opponent to retaliate. You can't find this kind of advantage on any other rifle. Jebus still hates scans.
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 937	Posted - 2015.02.01 10:18:00 - [7] - Quote Jebus McKing wrote: The point though still remains that the ScR performs much better The official stance on this appears to be "It's OP, but not many people use it, thus it's not a problem". Rattati has agreed before that the ScR's efficiency in terms of kills/rifle is better than with other weapons (source). But since it's still used comparatively seldom nerfing it would just remove it from the game. If you consider the ScR overly powerful the only solution right now is to advertise it's power by using it more. P.S.: I don't personally agree with that method. I'm just trying to let you know why this topic won't change anything.
Jebus McKing Nos Nothi 1369	Posted - 2015.02.01 10:39:00 - [8] - Quote Stefan Stahl wrote: Jebus McKing wrote: The point though still remains that the ScR performs much better The official stance on this appears to be "It's OP, but not many people use it, thus it's not a problem". Rattati has agreed before that the ScR's efficiency in terms of kills/rifle is better than with other weapons (source). But since it's still used comparatively seldom nerfing it would just remove it from the game. If you consider the ScR overly powerful the only solution right now is to advertise it's power by using it more. P.S.: I don't personally agree with that method. I'm just trying to let you know why this topic won't change anything. I know that statement by Rattati and I find that line of thinking rather... odd. When we know that something is more efficient than it should be why do we have to wait long enough for it being a widespread problem? Just so that there'll be more people QQing about their favourite OP weapon getting nerfed days after they finally got enough SP to spec into it and join the other OP chasers? Something about the ScR has to change. Now. I'm not saying that it needs a straight damage nerf but it's got to have some kind of disadvantage to compensate for its raw damage potential and range. I was thinking to make it kinda like the Laser rifle and give it a slightly reduced damage at ranges of ~0-30m. Not as limiting as the LR but definately noticeable. Or whatever else people seem fitting. I don't really want to propose a tweak myself as I'm not a ScR user, and it would be really nice if the ScR community themselves came up with tweaks instead of constantly repeating "lol, git gud, ScR is fine, stop QQing, shield user tears, blah blah blah" Jebus still hates scans.
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP 2012	Posted - 2015.02.01 11:06:00 - [9] - Quote Jebus McKing wrote: So I used the exact same method of testing with the CR as well. On average I was able to fire ~15.2 shots per second, which results in a dps of ~451 (Boundless CR damage = 29.7). A dps of 451 is almost on par with the dps of an AR (453), though the CR has a 20% better effective range than the AR. So there certainly is room for tweaking as well. The point though still remains that the ScR performs much better, especially when you compare it to the RR which has a similar range and got its stats reduced multiple times because of that. Also the ScR performs very good in both close and long range engagements where the other rifles have at least some disadvantage in either. As I said before, someone who uses a ScR regularly, and possibly even uses an Amarr Assaut, won't have too many problems with managing the heat built-up - same as CR users don't have problems with finding the right "rhythm", as you can't just pull the trigger as fast as you can because that will actually reduce your dps. The ability to charge shots also is a huge advantage because it massively reduces the time for an opponent to retaliate. You can't find this kind of advantage on any other rifle. Do any of these weapons leave you dancing in the street if you screw up and pull the trigger too many times? Do any of these weapons require you to stop shooting at times to stop the above from happening? If you think managing heat build up on a non assault suit is oh so easy then you obviously have not used this in a combat situation and you definitely have not done it against an armor bricked suit of any kind. On this note I find it very interesting that when discussing the AR and the CR you are throwing out all kinds of numbers and saying I all over the place yet when you get to the ScR there is not much in the number area and it is all "some one who". How about instead of whining on the forums you go put a ferroscale plate on, get good, and stop wasting everyone's time with your fabricated numbers. You have made it more than clear that you are just here too defend shields and combat rifles so just say it and let everyone else tell you to shut it as well.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 21491	Posted - 2015.02.01 11:47:00 - [10] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: If you are using anything other than the Amarr Assault missing a charge shot is nearly a death sentence. The simple solution to this is not to use the charge shot. *Vote 'Keshava' for a new Gallente vehicle name!* Gallente Guide to DUST

Varoth Drac Titans of Phoenix VP Gaming Alliance 554	Posted - 2015.02.01 11:59:00 - [11] - Quote Gotta say, I really don't find the Scr op. You say you could deal 1250 dmg before overheat? An AR does over 2300 dmg before having to reload. Also don't forget that scrs have to reload too. Plus there's the fact that you will normally stop firing early for fear of overheating rather than going to the absolute limit everytime, due to how dangerous it is to overheat. Also don't dismiss the fitting cost. The extremely high fitting cost is a major factor. Finally, the more extreme damage profile is a negative. Yes you will be great against shields, but at the cost of consistency. It's better to be decent against all enemies, than great against half.
WeapondigitX V7 The Exemplars RISE of LEGION 207	Posted - 2015.02.01 12:17:00 - [12] - Quote SCR has a optimal range of roughly 70m and it has much less damage per overheat compared to the damage per clip of the regular assault rifle. The SCR also hurts you if you overheat it and it is less user friendly. It is working as intended. Use a heavy with dampeners if you don't want them to kill your assault with one burst of bullets in 10m range engagements. Outrange them with rail rifles or try to make them miss at 50m ranges by straffing making them need to switch to a sidearm. While that is happening, you kill them with your massive clip of your AR or rail rifle. Or you could use a laser rifle. People that use SCRs are usually in a squad which means they can retreat behind other when they run out of bullets, that's situation is hard for newbs to figure out how to get around. You need to use dampeners then and flank from behind with a shotgun or HMG. Or use a flux then finish them off with a std Assault combat rifle. many other ways to kill them as well.
Kierkegaard Soren Eridani Light Horse Striker 666	Posted - 2015.02.01 12:31:00 - [13] - Quote Things to keep in mind when discussing the SCR: -it's the best 1v1 weapon in the game, capable of both long and short range engagements. It's a peerless TAC and exceptional breach. -but it's a poor assault weapon; without three or more ranks in Amarr assault its terribad at engaging multiple opponents. The overheat will kill you, period. -the damage profile matters, especially in the current meta of armour-dominance. Unless you can land every shot into the head it will not drop an adequately fitted heavy. Major issue. Balancing will be hard, because it's a weapon of many extremes; high performance, high risk. Works properly with one, maybe two suits. Good players will wreck with it, bad ones who spray and play will use it once and then never again. Dedicated Commando. CEO of Eridani Light Horse Strikers. "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing."
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6911	Posted - 2015.02.01 13:14:00 - [14] - Quote the scram is ineffective and inefficient in the hands of anyone who doesn't use it a lot. But the few people who DO use it are like me with the HMG or forge, they don't have to do anything but trust muscle memory because they have the battle tempo of the weapon down cold. If the Rail Rifle got a charge bonus from the caldari assault, and the gallente gave a comparatively good bonus to the AR the scram would be much less of a concern. As it stands only the scrambler and combat rifle get a good operational bonus from their racial assault suit, so yeah, they're going to be seen as overperforming. AV
All Gucci T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K General Tso's Alliance 165	Posted - 2015.02.01 15:29:00 - [15] - Quote Stefan Stahl wrote: Jebus McKing wrote: The point though still remains that the ScR performs much better The official stance on this appears to be "It's OP, but not many people use it, thus it's not a problem". Rattati has agreed before that the ScR's efficiency in terms of kills/rifle is better than with other weapons (source). But since it's still used comparatively seldom nerfing it would just remove it from the game. If you consider the ScR overly powerful the only solution right now is to advertise it's power by using it more. P.S.: I don't personally agree with that method. I'm just trying to let you know why this topic won't change anything. Rattati has agreed before that the ScR's efficiency in terms of kills/rifle is better than with other weapons<--- where did he say this? he said its the most efficient, he never said that in relation to kills? you cry babies just constantly make up ** it's so funny lmao it is not dominant in Kills compared to other rifles. this is what he said in relation to ScR kills Do you choose to only see parts of the sentence you want to ? you making up bullshit isn't going to help your argument... the ScR wont get touched until the amarr assault has its appropriate stats. Director / Slayer / Emperor**
Jebus McKing Nos Nothi 1371	Posted - 2015.02.01 16:34:00 - [16] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: You say you could deal 1250 dmg before overheat? An AR does over 2300 dmg before having to reload The comparision is flawed because it takes twice as long to empty an AR clip than it takes a ScR to overheat. And that is with only lvl 1 skills. The better your skill, the longer it will take to overheat and the more damage you can deal. 1250 is only the baseline, it deals much more than that in reality. Varoth Drac wrote: Also don't dismiss the fitting cost. The extremely high fitting cost is a major factor. I'd have no problem to reduce fitting cost if the rifle was tweaked in a way to be in line with the rest of the rifles. Varoth Drac wrote: Finally, the more extreme damage profile is a negative. Yes you will be great against shields, but at the cost of consistency. ScR can very consistently deal with armor users too as the negative bonus to armor is compensated by the higher dps. All Gucci wrote: Rattati has agreed before that the ScR's efficiency in terms of kills/rifle is better than with other weapons<--- where did he say this? he said its the most efficient, he never said that in relation to kills? you cry babies just constantly make up ** it's so funny lmao it is not dominant in Kills compared to other rifles.** this is what he said in relation to ScR kills Do you choose to only see parts of the sentence you want to ? you making up bullshit isn't going to help your argument... the ScR wont get touched until the amarr assault has its appropriate stats. Forgive me. Please enlighten me with the proper definition of a rifles efficiency then. Rattati literally said the ScR is better than the other rifles and the only reason he is not doing anything about it is because not enough people have jumped on the bandwagon yet. Jebus still hates scans.
Starlight Burner ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 101	Posted - 2015.02.01 16:41:00 - [17] - Quote People keep btching about my ScR yet they won't btch about the CR. ScR destroys shields CR destroys armor When I play pubs, I hardly see anyone using my gun. Oh, lets also not take in the affect of FPS drops that hinder the damn guns ability. When the frame tanks, the DPS it can do it LOWERED. The CR is better at destroying 1v1 to an Amar because of DPS to armor it can do. It takes someone who uses the ScR everyday all day to counter the strafing speeds and DPS the CR can do to armor. Quit btching about ScR and complain about the CR too. Dmn Thank god for CCP Rattati!! Rogue Relics is my home away from home.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 6280	Posted - 2015.02.01 16:42:00 - [18] - Quote I believe Kills / Spawn is what Rattati means by "efficiency". Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
All Gucci T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K General Tso's Alliance 166	Posted - 2015.02.01 18:55:00 - [19] - Quote Efficiency could be in relation to it's ability to be used at most ranges effectively.... until he specifies what exactly it is efficient at, you cant just assume he is speaking abut kills ...it is not dominant in Kills compared to other rifles here I will highlight and underline the part he does talk about kills. you may continue your crying if you want ,but don't say Rattati backs up your claims cause I don't see it Director / Slayer / Emperor
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP 2018	Posted - 2015.02.01 19:21:00 - [20] - Quote Starlight Burner wrote: People keep btching about my ScR yet they won't btch about the CR. ScR destroys shields CR destroys armor When I play pubs, I hardly see anyone using my gun. Oh, lets also not take in the affect of FPS drops that hinder the damn guns ability. When the frame tanks, the DPS it can do it LOWERED. The CR is better at destroying 1v1 to an Amarr because of DPS to armor it can do. It takes someone who uses the ScR everyday all day to counter the strafing speeds and DPS the CR can do to armor. Quit btching about ScR and complain about the CR too. Dmn Just give up. There is obviously some hidden link between shield / CR users and cry babies. At minimum a 5:1 ratio of CRs on the field flashing through armor before most people know what happen and then they are the ones that come running to the forums yelling about the one scrambler rifle that countered them.

Petra 222 SoM Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 63	Posted - 2015.02.01 19:23:00 - [21] - Quote I have all 3 rifles in question just like most of you hopefully do. I think you are not taking into account the reliability and ease of use the ar and cr have over the scr. They are more familiar. Many games follow this trend with assault, burst, and single shot rifles. Both the AR and CR have great variants. An assault variant can be very important when single-shot and burst rifles are so greatly affected by common lag. Another point of interest when looking at the charts: Shield suits, and shield modules are topping the boards. Is it a coincidence that AR, with its ease of use and favorable damage profile, are so commonly used? Also keep in mind the most common side arms are smg's, a great companion to a shield damaging weapon. Naturaly more are going to migrate to the scr too. Though it takes more mindfulness to use at first, once you get adjusted, it is one of the best rifles in the game. Is it also a coincidence the the most common suits in the game currently are the loudest complainers of the weapons designed to combat them? another point of interest; because the scr is a precision rifle with considerable draw backs as well as high fitting costs, many newer players dont skill into the scr until they are more familiar with the game. Scr users might have more time invested into the game than the average AR user. this also might lead to the elitist ego some scr advocates display.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 12010	Posted - 2015.02.01 20:39:00 - [22] - Quote Well if you're just going to compare DPS and nothing else, the tacical AR has higher DPS than the SCR (same ROF, higher damage), but I don't see anyone complaining about that. It's hypocrisy to complain about the SCR's DPS, but not the tAR. Also, it has only 5 meters less effective range. Yes the Amarr assault bonus allows you not worry so much about heat buildup (but does't eliminate it), but the Gallente assault bonus allows you to not worry so much about dispersion. In addition to having more DPS, the tAR can fire more shots before reloading than the SCR can before overheating, though the amount of shots does become very close when the Amarr assault bonus is involved. Overheating is much worse than reloading though, since you ca't run, or switch to your sidearms, and if you're going to have to reload as well anyway very soon after. The tAR has more kick, but if the issue is close range effectiveness, then kick doesn't really matter since its mainly an issue for longer ranges. Support 'Keshava' for the new Gallente HAV name in honor of Cat Merc's cat which recently passed away.
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 604	Posted - 2015.02.01 23:56:00 - [23] - Quote SCR: Overheat Dispersion Lack of skill to reduce this More EHP is in armor (weak to) CR: No overheat Fires more rounds before you have to stop Has a skill to reduce dispersion More EHP is in armor (strong to) Also: the scr may receive the least benefit to Aim Assist in the whole game (that's a huge maybe) Regardless, your post compares paper dps. It ignores actual applied DPS. The SCR melts shields super fast, is OK vs armor. The CR is good vs shields and melts armor super fast. From my experience the CR is better.
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 7572	Posted - 2015.02.02 00:45:00 - [24] - Quote All Gucci wrote: Stefan Stahl wrote: Jebus McKing wrote: The point though still remains that the ScR performs much better The official stance on this appears to be "It's OP, but not many people use it, thus it's not a problem". Rattati has agreed before that the ScR's efficiency in terms of kills/rifle is better than with other weapons (source). But since it's still used comparatively seldom nerfing it would just remove it from the game. If you consider the ScR overly powerful the only solution right now is to advertise it's power by using it more. P.S.: I don't personally agree with that method. I'm just trying to let you know why this topic won't change anything. Rattati has agreed before that the ScR's efficiency in terms of kills/rifle is better than with other weapons<--- where did he say this? he said its the most efficient, he never said that in relation to kills? you cry babies just constantly make up ** it's so funny lmao it is not dominant in Kills compared to other rifles.** this is what he said in relation to ScR kills Do you choose to only see parts of the sentence you want to ? you making up bullshit isn't going to help your argument... the ScR wont get touched until the amarr assault has its appropriate stats. Odd statement coming from a guy that wants the Amarr Assault speed or HP increased based on his own selective data. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood RISE of LEGION 72	Posted - 2015.02.02 02:56:00 - [25] - Quote I just have to say this. -20% of a large number, isn't that big of a difference. I'll just pull a random number out... 65. 65 * 0.8 = 52. Still a pretty high number. Plus the ROF? 52 adds up quickly. I understand there's o.h + semi-auto, but other weapons have kick or kick + spool time. Semi auto also has variable ROF (user dependant) O.H + Low kick >= Kick + larger mag/ spool + kick But why not just burst fire like kick? Make Kick = Heat and you understand what i'm saying. Now, it's just a thought... I have no side to pick in this. Entering the void and becoming wind with my repbus.
All Gucci T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K General Tso's Alliance 173	Posted - 2015.02.02 06:08:00 - [26] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: All Gucci wrote: Stefan Stahl wrote: Jebus McKing wrote: The point though still remains that the ScR performs much better The official stance on this appears to be "It's OP, but not many people use it, thus it's not a problem". Rattati has agreed before that the ScR's efficiency in terms of kills/rifle is better than with other weapons (source). But since it's still used comparatively seldom nerfing it would just remove it from the game. If you consider the ScR overly powerful the only solution right now is to advertise it's power by using it more. P.S.: I don't personally agree with that method. I'm just trying to let you know why this topic won't change anything. Rattati has agreed before that the ScR's efficiency in terms of kills/rifle is better than with other weapons<--- where did he say this? he said its the most efficient, he never said that in relation to kills? you cry babies just constantly make up ** it's so funny lmao it is not dominant in Kills compared to other rifles. this is what he said in relation to ScR kills Do you choose to only see parts of the sentence you want to ? you making up bullshit isn't going to help your argument... the ScR wont get touched until the amarr assault has its appropriate stats. Odd statement coming from a guy that wants the Amarr Assault speed or HP increased based on his own selective data. I didn't feel like doing all the math to prove that we had the worst health/speed ratio.. but earlier I posted the comparisons using gal/cal base hp....and the pattern still persists (amarr-gal/cal-min) .... I was going to do min base hp but i thought people would get the clue after doing it with gal/cal hp ..... Director / Slayer / Emperor**
All Gucci T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K General Tso's Alliance 173	Posted - 2015.02.02 06:11:00 - [27] - Quote Shamarskii Simon wrote: I just have to say this. -20% of a large number, isn't that big of a difference. I'll just pull a random number out... 65. 65 * 0.8 = 52. Still a pretty high number. Plus the ROF? 52 adds up quickly. I understand there's o.h + semi-auto, but other weapons have kick or kick + spool time. Semi auto also has variable ROF (user dependant) O.H + Low kick + low mag + high damage >= Kick + larger mag/ spool + kick '>' because in that amount of time, the number of rounds hitting can be the same... higher damage wins. But why not just burst fire like kick? Make Kick = Heat and you understand what i'm saying. Now, it's just a thought... I have no side to pick in this. spend 20% of your life in jail and see if 1/5 isn't a big difference Director / Slayer / Emperor
THUNDERGROOVE Fatal Absolution 1377	Posted - 2015.02.02 07:01:00 - [28] - Quote ScR is **** at range unless you use charge shots and half your DPS Working as intended, move along, etc etc... I'm the Rayman of uplinks. 21 day EVE trial.
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 2006	Posted - 2015.02.02 08:56:00 - [29] - Quote Jebus McKing wrote: So I used the exact same method of testing with the CR as well. On average I was able to fire ~15.2 shots per second, which results in a dps of ~451 (Boundless CR damage = 29.7). this is either 100% made up or your "testing" method is not very precise. CRs real RPM is 857 due to the burst delay after each burst additionally to its fire delay. I have tested this with a turbo controller and you cant get more than ~14 rounds per second out of the CR.
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood RISE of LEGION 73	Posted - 2015.02.02 10:54:00 - [30] - Quote All Gucci wrote: Shamarskii Simon wrote: I just have to say this. -20% of a large number, isn't that big of a difference. I'll just pull a random number out... 65. 65 * 0.8 = 52. Still a pretty high number. Plus the ROF? 52 adds up quickly. I understand there's o.h + semi-auto, but other weapons have kick or kick + spool time. Semi auto also has variable ROF (user dependant) O.H + Low kick + low mag + high damage >= Kick + larger mag/ spool + kick '>' because in that amount of time, the number of rounds hitting can be the same... higher damage wins. But why not just burst fire like kick? Make Kick = Heat and you understand what i'm saying. Now, it's just a thought... I have no side to pick in this. spend 20% of your life in jail and see if 1/5 isn't a big difference No thanks. I know way too many people who's been there n heard their stories. Entering the void and becoming wind with my repbus.



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