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Edau Skir2 Nefantar Raiders 338	Posted - 2015.01.29 00:57:00 - [1] - Quote So tonight in MinFW I was roaming around in a State Gunnlogi, with; 20g Railgun X2 80g Railgun Militia Heavy Shield Booster Militia Heavy Shield Extender X2 Militia Powered Upgrade Militia Railgun Ammo Expansion Unit and not a single AV'er could scratch it. Even after being hit by three swarms, I'd just activate the Booster and back to full health. Only thing that could kill me was another tank. So in summary, I do believe that something has to be adjusted to balance out the AV-Vehicle situation. If a swarm and forge can't scratch a tank with militia modules, something's wrong. Resident pasty smasher
LUGMOS Quafe Premium 1729	Posted - 2015.01.29 01:00:00 - [2] - Quote God dammit. We all know shield HAVs are way outperforming. Try the Madrugar with militia modules and see for yourself. Don't make AV UP, make shield HAVs OP... Official QuafeGäó Advocate Anti-FoTM Prof. V Forum Scavenger Prof. V
Mex-0 T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K General Tso's Alliance 338	Posted - 2015.01.29 01:02:00 - [3] - Quote I don't even waste a weapon slot on AV now.... I just equip AV grenades and nanohives. Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉn¦ñ
Sinboto Simmons Dead Man's Game RUST415 7458	Posted - 2015.01.29 01:04:00 - [4] - Quote Don't know who you were playing against, I get hit by AV and my shield drops faster than a fratboy's pants. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 5 Prof 2 Born of the Brutor tribe

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 16063	Posted - 2015.01.29 01:04:00 - [5] - Quote Gunnlogis are pretty OP, and Maddies UP. Take a look at the HAV thread in Feedback for rebalancing efforts. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Songs of Seraphim Murphys-Law 250	Posted - 2015.01.29 01:04:00 - [6] - Quote Ishukone Assault Forge Gun. Best for AV. OR the breach forge variant if you can shoot the weak spot of the tank. Wyrikomi Swarms aren't supposed to kill a tank (not with 1 clip anyway) merely deter it. Unless it's two or more swarms. And as a new ADS pilot (in-training) I understand as such. Forges should kill me. And swarms too, if I'm not careful. Though, I deem it is a bit unfair when 1 clip of a swarm launcher can kill me in an ADS. But hey, you adapt. Caldari loyalist Assault ck.0. Logistics ck.0. Scout ck.0. Commando ck.0. Sentinel ck.0.
Edau Skir2 Nefantar Raiders 339	Posted - 2015.01.29 01:11:00 - [7] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: God dammit. We all know shield HAVs are way outperforming. Try the Madrugar with militia modules and see for yourself. Don't make AV UP, make shield HAVs OP... I'm not saying anything should be nerfed/buffed, I'm saying that av should be better equipped to tackle shields, and Tank mods should be able to regenerate armor faster. As you stated, in its current state, shield tanked HAVs are wayyyy Op. I mean, that tank had 4300 shield hp. Imagine the ridiculousness if I'd actually skilled into vehicles at all! (Not a single sp) And thank you Lord Rattati, I shall do just that! Resident pasty smasher
TritusX PH4NT0M5 168	Posted - 2015.01.29 01:13:00 - [8] - Quote or galmando with mods and PLC nearly killed an incubus, gunnlogi, madrugar with std anti armor fit and a plc galmando even more op Believe in RUST Don't hate the DUST lol
Edau Skir2 Nefantar Raiders 339	Posted - 2015.01.29 01:15:00 - [9] - Quote TritusX wrote: or galmando with mods and PLC nearly killed an incubus, gunnlogi, madrugar with std anti armor fit and a plc galmando even more op I had a guy trying to plc me, but once you see him it's easy to avoid them. Then the 20gj Railguns pick them apart Resident pasty smasher
Chimichanga66605 Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 313	Posted - 2015.01.29 01:17:00 - [10] - Quote Flux Orbitals anyone? Am I the only one who uses those 300 WP against shield tanks before I attack? Mk.0 Specialist, Republic Loyalist "Badassery is not born, but often thrust upon you." -Franklin Delano Roosevelt

Sinboto Simmons Dead Man's Game RUST415 7458	Posted - 2015.01.29 01:18:00 - [11] - Quote Chimichanga66605 wrote: Flux Orbitals anyone? Am I the only one who uses those 300 WP against shield tanks before I attack? Yes, because no one else has the aim of Zeus. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 5 Prof 2 Born of the Brutor tribe
duster 35000 Algintal Core Gallente Federation 156	Posted - 2015.01.29 01:42:00 - [12] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Gunnlogis are pretty OP, and Maddies UP. Take a look at the HAV thread in Feedback for rebalancing efforts. I don't see how the Gunlogi is op, maddy wins tank fights and can aim down. Along with constant regen. And wasn't the gunlogi supposed to be strong for a short while? as for swarms, well, damage profile, proto swarms on a minmando though... Choo Choo
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16870	Posted - 2015.01.29 01:45:00 - [13] - Quote duster 35000 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Gunnlogis are pretty OP, and Maddies UP. Take a look at the HAV thread in Feedback for rebalancing efforts. I don't see how the Gunlogi is op, maddy wins tank fights and can aim down. Along with constant regen. And wasn't the gunlogi supposed to be strong for a short while? as for swarms, well, damage profile, proto swarms on a minmando though... All tanks should have the ability to aim down to some degree...... that's kinda mandatory..... hopefully this can be fixed. "This is the Usumgal boy, the exalted dragon, wreathed in the fires of heaven. He is a true symbol of God's majesty."
TritusX PH4NT0M5 168	Posted - 2015.01.29 01:48:00 - [14] - Quote Edau Skir2 wrote: TritusX wrote: or galmando with mods and PLC nearly killed an incubus, gunnlogi, madrugar with std anti armor fit and a plc galmando even more op I had a guy trying to plc me, but once you see him it's easy to avoid them. Then the 20gj Railguns pick them apart not too easy when you're stuck in a city somewhere or when you have no gunners or a railgun or le pesky scout can do the job Believe in RUST Don't hate the DUST lol
Sinboto Simmons Dead Man's Game RUST415 7467	Posted - 2015.01.29 01:51:00 - [15] - Quote True Adamance wrote: duster 35000 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Gunnlogis are pretty OP, and Maddies UP. Take a look at the HAV thread in Feedback for rebalancing efforts. I don't see how the Gunlogi is op, maddy wins tank fights and can aim down. Along with constant regen. And wasn't the gunlogi supposed to be strong for a short while? as for swarms, well, damage profile, proto swarms on a minmando though... All tanks should have the ability to aim down to some degree...... that's kinda mandatory..... hopefully this can be fixed. Wasn't there some problems with the turret clipping through the tank hull in the past? They ever get around to fixing that? Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 5 Prof 2 Born of the Brutor tribe
Slave of MORTE Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic 219	Posted - 2015.01.29 01:52:00 - [16] - Quote True Adamance wrote: duster 35000 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Gunnlogis are pretty OP, and Maddies UP. Take a look at the HAV thread in Feedback for rebalancing efforts. I don't see how the Gunlogi is op, maddy wins tank fights and can aim down. Along with constant regen. And wasn't the gunlogi supposed to be strong for a short while? as for swarms, well, damage profile, proto swarms on a minmando though... All tanks should have the ability to aim down to some degree...... that's kinda mandatory..... hopefully this can be fixed. Been that way since closed beta hold ur breath and wait for gun logis to be able to aim down Yet another slave of Mortedeamor
taxi bastard Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 368	Posted - 2015.01.29 01:56:00 - [17] - Quote well the triple rep maddie is still good against a proto swarmer until he runs out of ammo, but yea give me a maddie anyday to fight.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16870	Posted - 2015.01.29 01:57:00 - [18] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: True Adamance wrote: duster 35000 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Gunnlogis are pretty OP, and Maddies UP. Take a look at the HAV thread in Feedback for rebalancing efforts. I don't see how the Gunlogi is op, maddy wins tank fights and can aim down. Along with constant regen. And wasn't the gunlogi supposed to be strong for a short while? as for swarms, well, damage profile, proto swarms on a minmando though... All tanks should have the ability to aim down to some degree...... that's kinda mandatory..... hopefully this can be fixed. Wasn't there some problems with the turret clipping through the tank hull in the past? They ever get around to fixing that? Doubt it...... I remember when I could shoot myself.... If we got anyone who wouldn't get out of the HAV, etc I'd just shoot myself until I took the bastard with me. It's odd looking at the designs of CCP's HAV in Dust 514 as I learn more about tanks and modern weapons systems on them. The hulls are oddly squat and not very tall so I often wonder how up to 3 cloned mercenaries fit into the hulls and where the engines and other electronics systems fit into the hull. Also the turrets cuppola's are oddly small and not particularly forward on the hull or centralised.......instead they are position at the back. I don't quite know why this is but I assume the cuppola is so small because no crew inhabit that space. "This is the Usumgal boy, the exalted dragon, wreathed in the fires of heaven. He is a true symbol of God's majesty."
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 687	Posted - 2015.01.29 02:00:00 - [19] - Quote Edau Skir2 wrote: So tonight in MinFW I was roaming around in a State Gunnlogi, with; 20gj Railgun X2 80gj Railgun Militia Heavy Shield Booster Militia Heavy Shield Extender X2 Militia Powered Upgrade Militia Railgun Ammo Expansion Unit and not a single AV'er could scratch it. Even after being hit by three swarms, I'd just activate the Booster and back to full health. Only thing that could kill me was another tank. So in summary, I do believe that something has to be adjusted to balance out the AV-Vehicle situation. If a swarm and forge can't scratch a tank with militia modules, something's wrong. Did you just 'roam' or did you actually do something useful in the match... I find if you actually go where you can be useful to the team, staying alive becomes more difficult. Where did the forger come into it? I'm pretty sure if I were forging you, you'd die in that militia gear. Should 2 AV = instant death for a vehicle, when you can only have 5 vehicles, vs 16 AV (obviously no one would go a full 16 man AV squad and still win a match, but you can easily have 2 or 3 more AV than vehicles and switch back to light weapons when the infantry arrives.) Chimichanga66605 wrote: Flux Orbitals anyone? Am I the only one who uses those 300 WP against shield tanks before I attack? You must be, when I tank I find they go with the expensive 'fireworks display' and I drive off with plenty of shields left. CCP Rattati wrote: Gunnlogis are pretty OP, and Maddies UP. Take a look at the HAV thread in Feedback for rebalancing efforts. Nice to see you finally changed your mind about that... I recall you suggesting the Maddi was better than the Gunni because hp maths. Kept going on about nerfing the thing into the ground, lol.
Edau Skir2 Nefantar Raiders 341	Posted - 2015.01.29 02:11:00 - [20] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: Edau Skir2 wrote: So tonight in MinFW I was roaming around in a State Gunnlogi, with; 20gj Railgun X2 80gj Railgun Militia Heavy Shield Booster Militia Heavy Shield Extender X2 Militia Powered Upgrade Militia Railgun Ammo Expansion Unit and not a single AV'er could scratch it. Even after being hit by three swarms, I'd just activate the Booster and back to full health. Only thing that could kill me was another tank. So in summary, I do believe that something has to be adjusted to balance out the AV-Vehicle situation. If a swarm and forge can't scratch a tank with militia modules, something's wrong. Did you just 'roam' or did you actually do something useful in the match... I find if you actually go where you can be useful to the team, staying alive becomes more difficult. Where did the forger come into it? I'm pretty sure if I were forging you, you'd die in that militia gear. Should 2 AV = instant death for a vehicle, when you can only have 5 vehicles, vs 16 AV (obviously no one would go a full 16 man AV squad and still win a match, but you can easily have 2 or 3 more AV than vehicles and switch back to light weapons when the infantry arrives.) Chimichanga66605 wrote: Flux Orbitals anyone? Am I the only one who uses those 300 WP against shield tanks before I attack? You must be, when I tank I find they go with the expensive 'fireworks display' and I drive off with plenty of shields left. CCP Rattati wrote: Gunnlogis are pretty OP, and Maddies UP. Take a look at the HAV thread in Feedback for rebalancing efforts. Nice to see you finally changed your mind about that... I recall you suggesting the Maddi was better than the Gunni because hp maths. Kept going on about nerfing the thing into the ground, lol. I never just "roam". Always at the objectives trying to secure them for our side, and in this case, kill other vehicles and any infantry inbetween. As for the forger, they do what, 1500-2100 at proto level? In the time it would take you to kill me with a forge, (4 hits with proto assault forge, or 4 hits with a Breach forge), I'd of tailed it out of there and come back at full health. 12s (Quickest forge charge time for Assault) is easily enough time to find cover and regen, even with the 25% reduction. (So, 9s) Resident pasty smasher

Vesta Opalus T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K General Tso's Alliance 362	Posted - 2015.01.29 02:12:00 - [21] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: God dammit. We all know shield HAVs are way outperforming. Try the Madrugar with militia modules and see for yourself. Don't make AV UP, make shield HAVs OP... Its pretty trivial to keep a rep tank alive with even rudimentary exploitation of terrain/cover, though I grant that they are much more vulnerable to AV than gunnlogis are, and agree completely that gunnlogis are just bullshit overpowered currently. AV is not designed to kill vehicles in this game, its designed to make them back off or run away.
Vesta Opalus T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K General Tso's Alliance 362	Posted - 2015.01.29 02:13:00 - [22] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Gunnlogis are pretty OP, and Maddies UP. Take a look at the HAV thread in Feedback for rebalancing efforts. They are underpowered compared to gunnlogis, not compared to AV (or do you have some data thats completely counter to my experience in the game?)
LUGMOS Quafe Premium 1733	Posted - 2015.01.29 02:16:00 - [23] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: AV is not designed to kill vehicles in this game, its designed to make them back off or run away. In that sense, AV is in a good place now then, right? Barring the Gunlogi of course. Official QuafeGäó Advocate Anti-FoTM Prof. V Forum Scavenger Prof. V

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 16082	Posted - 2015.01.29 02:28:00 - [24] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: Nice to see you finally changed your mind about that... I recall you suggesting the Maddi was better than the Gunni because hp maths. Kept going on about nerfing the thing into the ground, lol. Triple rep maddies were, so they were nerfed "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 310	Posted - 2015.01.29 02:41:00 - [25] - Quote Edau Skir2 wrote: So tonight in MinFW I was roaming around in a State Gunnlogi, with; 20gj Railgun X2 80gj Railgun Militia Heavy Shield Booster Militia Heavy Shield Extender X2 Militia Powered Upgrade Militia Railgun Ammo Expansion Unit and not a single AV'er could scratch it. Even after being hit by three swarms, I'd just activate the Booster and back to full health. Only thing that could kill me was another tank. So in summary, I do believe that something has to be adjusted to balance out the AV-Vehicle situation. If a swarm and forge can't scratch a tank with militia modules, something's wrong. What did you do in the match? How much wp? Did they try and ambush you? Use fluxes? ADS Ramming Revenge!!
Edau Skir2 Nefantar Raiders 341	Posted - 2015.01.29 02:55:00 - [26] - Quote Juno Tristan wrote: Edau Skir2 wrote: So tonight in MinFW I was roaming around in a State Gunnlogi, with; 20gj Railgun X2 80gj Railgun Militia Heavy Shield Booster Militia Heavy Shield Extender X2 Militia Powered Upgrade Militia Railgun Ammo Expansion Unit and not a single AV'er could scratch it. Even after being hit by three swarms, I'd just activate the Booster and back to full health. Only thing that could kill me was another tank. So in summary, I do believe that something has to be adjusted to balance out the AV-Vehicle situation. If a swarm and forge can't scratch a tank with militia modules, something's wrong. What did you do in the match? How much wp? Did they try and ambush you? Use fluxes? I did a lot. Vehicle, installation, infantry kills, assists, hacks where needed etc etc. And that game? 2200wp or something around that. They did, that was the two guys using swarm and forge who failed. HOWEVER, in my most recent match, much fun was had! Some guy started suicide-hogging into tanks Resident pasty smasher
Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 310	Posted - 2015.01.29 03:12:00 - [27] - Quote Edau Skir2 wrote: Juno Tristan wrote: Edau Skir2 wrote: So tonight in MinFW I was roaming around in a State Gunnlogi, with; 20gj Railgun X2 80gj Railgun Militia Heavy Shield Booster Militia Heavy Shield Extender X2 Militia Powered Upgrade Militia Railgun Ammo Expansion Unit and not a single AV'er could scratch it. Even after being hit by three swarms, I'd just activate the Booster and back to full health. Only thing that could kill me was another tank. So in summary, I do believe that something has to be adjusted to balance out the AV-Vehicle situation. If a swarm and forge can't scratch a tank with militia modules, something's wrong. What did you do in the match? How much wp? Did they try and ambush you? Use fluxes? I did a lot. Vehicle, installation, infantry kills, assists, hacks where needed etc etc. And that game? 2200wp or something around that. They did, that was the two guys using swarm and forge who failed. HOWEVER, in my most recent match, much fun was had! Some guy started suicide-hogging into tanks Then I would suggest they were also using low level gear ADS Ramming Revenge!!
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 3289	Posted - 2015.01.29 03:50:00 - [28] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Gunnlogis are pretty OP, and Maddies UP. Take a look at the HAV thread in Feedback for rebalancing efforts. Shield and armor parity across DUST has always been in an interesting state... Probably exacerbated by the lack of full racial parity and the struggle to get there. Probably one of the harder eternal struggles CCP as a whole has had to fight since starting the New Eden galaxy.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2846	Posted - 2015.01.29 03:56:00 - [29] - Quote Edau Skir2 wrote: So tonight in MinFW I was roaming around in a State Gunnlogi, with; 20gj Railgun X2 80gj Railgun Militia Heavy Shield Booster Militia Heavy Shield Extender X2 Militia Powered Upgrade Militia Railgun Ammo Expansion Unit and not a single AV'er could scratch it. Even after being hit by three swarms, I'd just activate the Booster and back to full health. Only thing that could kill me was another tank. So in summary, I do believe that something has to be adjusted to balance out the AV-Vehicle situation. If a swarm and forge can't scratch a tank with militia modules, something's wrong. If I can't shrug that off, you certainly can't. Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
Thumb Green Raymond James Corp 2025	Posted - 2015.01.29 04:09:00 - [30] - Quote Songs of Seraphim wrote: Ishukone Assault Forge Gun. Best for AV. OR the breach forge variant if you can shoot the weak spot of the tank. Wyrikomi Swarms aren't supposed to kill a tank (not with 1 clip anyway) merely deter it. Unless it's two or more swarms. And as a new ADS pilot (in-training) I understand as such. Forges should kill me. And swarms too, if I'm not careful. Though, I deem it is a bit unfair when 1 clip of a swarm launcher can kill me in an ADS. But hey, you adapt. Fck that noise. Why do some people constantly insist that AV should be the only weapons in the game that requires 1 clip or more to kill what it was designed to kill? Also this "swarms shouldn't be able to kill a tank unless its a group" bullsh!t is just that. Why shouldn't it do what it is designed to do? [RYJC]

LUGMOS Quafe Premium 1739	Posted - 2015.01.29 04:14:00 - [31] - Quote Thumb Green wrote: Songs of Seraphim wrote: Ishukone Assault Forge Gun. Best for AV. OR the breach forge variant if you can shoot the weak spot of the tank. Wyrikomi Swarms aren't supposed to kill a tank (not with 1 clip anyway) merely deter it. Unless it's two or more swarms. And as a new ADS pilot (in-training) I understand as such. Forges should kill me. And swarms too, if I'm not careful. Though, I deem it is a bit unfair when 1 clip of a swarm launcher can kill me in an ADS. But hey, you adapt. Fck that noise. Why do some people constantly insist that AV should be the only weapons in the game that requires 1 clip or more to kill what it was designed to kill? Also this "swarms shouldn't be able to kill a tank unless its a group" bullsh!t is just that. Why shouldn't it do what it is designed to do? IMO, it wasn't designed to kill vehicles. At least not easily. If it is, then It should be comparable in SP to the SP a vehicle specialist puts into their role. Should it not? Is this unreasonable? Official QuafeGäó Advocate Anti-FoTM Prof. V Forum Scavenger Prof. V
DDx77 The Exemplars RISE of LEGION 104	Posted - 2015.01.29 04:18:00 - [32] - Quote As a major tank hater my main issue is not with your survivability it is your ability to still farm infantry with that stupid large blaster turret I would be for buffing your small rails/blaster and removing this stupid uninspired lame boring weapon The last couple of FW matches I played tanks dominated. The last one was vs outer.heaven So a stupid good corp/squad with near impossible to bring down tanks doing laps around you while the rest of their squad is jumping all over you and waiting for you to try bringing out AV so they can cut you down Boosting : Allowing the server to protect people from other countries from taking damage
Thumb Green Raymond James Corp 2026	Posted - 2015.01.29 04:19:00 - [33] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: Thumb Green wrote: Songs of Seraphim wrote: Ishukone Assault Forge Gun. Best for AV. OR the breach forge variant if you can shoot the weak spot of the tank. Wyrikomi Swarms aren't supposed to kill a tank (not with 1 clip anyway) merely deter it. Unless it's two or more swarms. And as a new ADS pilot (in-training) I understand as such. Forges should kill me. And swarms too, if I'm not careful. Though, I deem it is a bit unfair when 1 clip of a swarm launcher can kill me in an ADS. But hey, you adapt. Fck that noise. Why do some people constantly insist that AV should be the only weapons in the game that requires 1 clip or more to kill what it was designed to kill? Also this "swarms shouldn't be able to kill a tank unless its a group" bullsh!t is just that. Why shouldn't it do what it is designed to do? IMO, it wasn't designed to kill vehicles. At least not easily. If it is, then It should be comparable in SP to the SP a vehicle specialist puts into their role. Should it not? Is this unreasonable? They're weapons of war made in a cruel universe, of course they're designed to kill vehicles. If they aren't then they should just be removed from the game. Edit: Until a dev actually says that AV is meant as a deterrent then there is no reason to think that they are, the weapon's in game descriptions certainly don't imply that's what they're for. I can agree on the SP investment part. [RYJC]
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2847	Posted - 2015.01.29 04:23:00 - [34] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Gunnlogis are pretty OP, and Maddies UP. Take a look at the HAV thread in Feedback for rebalancing efforts. Bringing the armor vehicles up to the level the shield vehicles are at would give experienced pilots a better chance if they're using armor, against another experienced pilot using shield. Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2847	Posted - 2015.01.29 04:24:00 - [35] - Quote Edau Skir2 wrote: LUGMOS wrote: God dammit. We all know shield HAVs are way outperforming. Try the Madrugar with militia modules and see for yourself. Don't make AV UP, make shield HAVs OP... I'm not saying anything should be nerfed/buffed, I'm saying that av should be better equipped to tackle shields, and Tank mods should be able to regenerate armor faster. As you stated, in its current state, shield tanked HAVs are wayyyy Op. I mean, that tank had 4300 shield hp. Imagine the ridiculousness if I'd actually skilled into vehicles at all! (Not a single sp) And thank you Lord Rattati, I shall do just that! All the SP does is make modules last longer and cool down faster. Having SP into vehicles means next to nothing at this point. Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
Operative 1174 Uuali Y.A.M.A.H 400	Posted - 2015.01.29 04:25:00 - [36] - Quote Swarms are the wrong weapon for a shield tank. Proves nothing. FG, plasma cannon and rail tanks work way too easy on shields. I'm better than laser focused; I'm hybrid focused.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2847	Posted - 2015.01.29 04:25:00 - [37] - Quote Chimichanga66605 wrote: Flux Orbitals anyone? Am I the only one who uses those 300 WP against shield tanks before I attack? The 3 separate little strikes might as well be individual strikes hitting different parts of the map. Every 12 or so, I'll get 2 pieces of equipment. Every 25 I'll get vehicle damage. Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
Thumb Green Raymond James Corp 2026	Posted - 2015.01.29 04:28:00 - [38] - Quote Operative 1174 Uuali wrote: Swarms are the wrong weapon for a shield tank. Proves nothing. FG, plasma cannon and rail tanks work way too easy on shields. interestingly enough, the plasma cannon is the only weapon you listed that is the right weapon for shield tanks. [RYJC]
Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 310	Posted - 2015.01.29 04:31:00 - [39] - Quote Thumb Green wrote: Operative 1174 Uuali wrote: Swarms are the wrong weapon for a shield tank. Proves nothing. FG, plasma cannon and rail tanks work way too easy on shields. interestingly enough, the plasma cannon is the only weapon you listed that is the right weapon for shield tanks. The other weapons don't have as an extreme damage profile as explosives ADS Ramming Revenge!!
Thumb Green Raymond James Corp 2026	Posted - 2015.01.29 04:32:00 - [40] - Quote I know but they're still anti-armor weapons. [RYJC]

Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 310	Posted - 2015.01.29 04:41:00 - [41] - Quote Thumb Green wrote: I know but they're still anti-armor weapons. Because there aren't enough av shield weapons in the game ADS Ramming Revenge!!
Thumb Green Raymond James Corp 2026	Posted - 2015.01.29 04:45:00 - [42] - Quote Juno Tristan wrote: Thumb Green wrote: I know but they're still anti-armor weapons. Because there aren't enough av shield weapons in the game This would go a lot better if you'd just stick to the point I was making instead of trying to tell me things you think I don't know. Why does everyone ignore the point? [RYJC]
Benjamin Ciscko Fatal Absolution 3640	Posted - 2015.01.29 04:48:00 - [43] - Quote Maybe they should stop using militia forge guns I have no problem taking tanks out with an ADV AFG and Lai Dai's I use this thing that very few people have discovered. Teamwork I know so difficult. Fatal Absolution Director Shield tanking is hard mode /period. Proud FA.G http://imgur.com/VwYJUI3
Edau Skir2 Nefantar Raiders 343	Posted - 2015.01.29 04:48:00 - [44] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Edau Skir2 wrote: So tonight in MinFW I was roaming around in a State Gunnlogi, with; 20gj Railgun X2 80gj Railgun Militia Heavy Shield Booster Militia Heavy Shield Extender X2 Militia Powered Upgrade Militia Railgun Ammo Expansion Unit and not a single AV'er could scratch it. Even after being hit by three swarms, I'd just activate the Booster and back to full health. Only thing that could kill me was another tank. So in summary, I do believe that something has to be adjusted to balance out the AV-Vehicle situation. If a swarm and forge can't scratch a tank with militia modules, something's wrong. If I can't shrug that off, you certainly can't. Really....we're going down the, "This guy's bs-ing us" route? If you died to what I faced, I suggest that you're a worse tank operator than I. Not only was it shrugged off, but the av-ers died in the process. The reason I put small turrets on my tanks isn't for others, it's so I can hop on them and mow infantry down with them. Resident pasty smasher
Edau Skir2 Nefantar Raiders 343	Posted - 2015.01.29 04:50:00 - [45] - Quote Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Maybe they should stop using militia forge guns I have no problem taking tanks out with an ADV AFG and Lai Dai's I use this thing that very few people have discovered. Teamwork I know so difficult. This goes to the route of every vehicle/av thread's original point. AV wouldn't need changing if people worked together. Some tanks wouldn't die so quickly if they had infantry support to take out AV (Although, the latter is usually a non-tanked fit) Resident pasty smasher
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2847	Posted - 2015.01.29 04:53:00 - [46] - Quote Edau Skir2 wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Edau Skir2 wrote: So tonight in MinFW I was roaming around in a State Gunnlogi, with; 20gj Railgun X2 80gj Railgun Militia Heavy Shield Booster Militia Heavy Shield Extender X2 Militia Powered Upgrade Militia Railgun Ammo Expansion Unit and not a single AV'er could scratch it. Even after being hit by three swarms, I'd just activate the Booster and back to full health. Only thing that could kill me was another tank. So in summary, I do believe that something has to be adjusted to balance out the AV-Vehicle situation. If a swarm and forge can't scratch a tank with militia modules, something's wrong. If I can't shrug that off, you certainly can't. Really....we're going down the, "This guy's bs-ing us" route? If you died to what I faced, I suggest that you're a worse tank operator than I. Not only was it shrugged off, but the av-ers died in the process. The reason I put small turrets on my tanks isn't for others, it's so I can hop on them and mow infantry down with them. Here we go again. By three swarms, do you mean STD? Darkside? Because if they're PRO from a level 5 Minmando, you're nearly dead. If it's 3 different people, then I absolutely don't believe you. Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2848	Posted - 2015.01.29 05:00:00 - [47] - Quote Operative 1174 Uuali wrote: Swarms are the wrong weapon for a shield tank. Proves nothing. FG, plasma cannon and rail tanks work way too easy on shields. Forge and rail have a bonus against armor. Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
THUNDERGROOVE Fatal Absolution 1351	Posted - 2015.01.29 05:07:00 - [48] - Quote duster 35000 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Gunnlogis are pretty OP, and Maddies UP. Take a look at the HAV thread in Feedback for rebalancing efforts. I don't see how the Gunlogi is op, maddy wins tank fights and can aim down. Along with constant regen. And wasn't the gunlogi supposed to be strong for a short while? as for swarms, well, damage profile, proto swarms on a minmando though... I haven't lost a fight to a maddy in months. Dual tanking is for bad players. 21 day EVE trial.
Edau Skir2 Nefantar Raiders 343	Posted - 2015.01.29 05:12:00 - [49] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Edau Skir2 wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Edau Skir2 wrote: So tonight in MinFW I was roaming around in a State Gunnlogi, with; 20gj Railgun X2 80gj Railgun Militia Heavy Shield Booster Militia Heavy Shield Extender X2 Militia Powered Upgrade Militia Railgun Ammo Expansion Unit and not a single AV'er could scratch it. Even after being hit by three swarms, I'd just activate the Booster and back to full health. Only thing that could kill me was another tank. So in summary, I do believe that something has to be adjusted to balance out the AV-Vehicle situation. If a swarm and forge can't scratch a tank with militia modules, something's wrong. If I can't shrug that off, you certainly can't. Really....we're going down the, "This guy's bs-ing us" route? If you died to what I faced, I suggest that you're a worse tank operator than I. Not only was it shrugged off, but the av-ers died in the process. The reason I put small turrets on my tanks isn't for others, it's so I can hop on them and mow infantry down with them. Here we go again. By three swarms, do you mean STD? Darkside? Because if they're PRO from a level 5 Minmando, you're nearly dead. If it's 3 different people, then I absolutely don't believe you. Let me take you through the math. My tank's hp values; Shield - 4028 Armor - 1500 Now a Proto Wirykomi Swarm does 312 damage with each of the four missiles it fires. Amounting to 1248. If it's being fired by a non-Minmando, you then have to subtract 125 damage against shields for the explosive weaponry (-10% against shields). That brings it down to 1123 per round. After two rounds, I activate my shield Booster restoring 1950hP. My shields are currently at 1780, after boosting, 3730, before another load of 1123 is dealt. Leaving me still with 2607 shield and all 1500 armor. But the fact is, not everyone is running proto in pubs. At ADV level, each volley is 104 damage weaker, at STD, 208 damage weaker. So yes, it goes without saying that these people weren't running proto av weapons, but at the end of the day, my tank is MILITIA. If I had invested sp into tank upgrades, I'd be repping a lot faster, have more eHP, and all in all, be much harder to kill. But I haven't done that at all. My original point is that, if I'm running militia, AV'ers shouldn't have to be running proto. EDIT; mental math.. Resident pasty smasher
Thumb Green Raymond James Corp 2027	Posted - 2015.01.29 05:31:00 - [50] - Quote Edau Skir2 wrote: Let me take you through the math. My tank's hp values; Shield - 4028 Armor - 1500 Now a Proto Wirykomi Swarm does 312 damage with each of the four missiles it fires. Amounting to 1248. If it's being fired by a non-Minmando, you then have to subtract 125 damage against shields for the explosive weaponry (-10% against shields).. Explosive is +20% A / -20% S Edau Skir2 wrote: My original point is that, if I'm running militia, AV'ers shouldn't have to be running proto.. +1 for that though. However the problem is that there are no proto vehicles so proto AV has been somewhat balanced against STD vehicles. Why does everyone ignore the point? [RYJC]

Edau Skir2 Nefantar Raiders 344	Posted - 2015.01.29 05:36:00 - [51] - Quote Thumb Green wrote: Edau Skir2 wrote: Let me take you through the math. My tank's hp values; Shield - 4028 Armor - 1500 Now a Proto Wirykomi Swarm does 312 damage with each of the four missiles it fires. Amounting to 1248. If it's being fired by a non-Minmando, you then have to subtract 125 damage against shields for the explosive weaponry (-10% against shields).. Explosive is +20% A / -20% S Edau Skir2 wrote: My original point is that, if I'm running militia, AV'ers shouldn't have to be running proto.. +1 for that though. However the problem is that there are no proto vehicles so proto AV has been somewhat balanced against STD vehicles. Thanks for the correction, I've been using values based off a wikia. True, but from what I've been reading in the Feedback thread, that's all going to change soon! As always, a little excited to see how it pans out. Resident pasty smasher
Thumb Green Raymond James Corp 2027	Posted - 2015.01.29 05:47:00 - [52] - Quote The wikia (not the wiki, that one was actually good) has always been a ****** source of info. I pretty much go to protofits for everything now. Why does everyone ignore the point? [RYJC]
Mortishai Belmont G.L.O.R.Y General Tso's Alliance 392	Posted - 2015.01.29 06:06:00 - [53] - Quote Had a swarm fire at me 3 times for 14k damage the other day, was epic. Then again, I use a madruger... I should just jump on the wagon and get a gunlogi with a rail like the other 90% of dust ;~; G.L.O.R.Y Soldier, I'm that Amarr heavy you warn your team about <3 -Heavy/Logi/Assault/Scout-
Edau Skir2 Nefantar Raiders 344	Posted - 2015.01.29 06:07:00 - [54] - Quote Mortishai Belmont wrote: Had a swarm fire at me 3 times for 14k damage the other day, was epic. Then again, I use a madruger... I should just jump on the wagon and get a gunlogi with a rail like the other 90% of dust ;~; Not sure if serious.....or just trolling Resident pasty smasher
Riptalis Horizons' Edge 179	Posted - 2015.01.29 06:46:00 - [55] - Quote Songs of Seraphim wrote: Ishukone Assault Forge Gun. Best for AV. OR the breach forge variant if you can shoot the weak spot of the tank. Wyrikomi Swarms aren't supposed to kill a tank (not with 1 clip anyway) merely deter it. Unless it's two or more swarms. And as a new ADS pilot (in-training) I understand as such. Forges should kill me. And swarms too, if I'm not careful. Though, I deem it is a bit unfair when 1 clip of a swarm launcher can kill me in an ADS. But hey, you adapt. ADS pilots can't adapt with rendering issues and invisible swarms/forges :( Python pilot Logistics mk.0 Assault mk.0
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1989	Posted - 2015.01.29 08:21:00 - [56] - Quote Mortishai Belmont wrote: Had a swarm fire at me 3 times for 14k damage the other day, was epic. mathematically impossible, you are another biased whiny wimp. max damage you can do with 3 volleys is 6451,576312896. that is a minmando with max skills, 2 complex damage mods and proto swarm. also as noted here => https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2594962#post2594962 that is 9 seconds of shooting at you. you cant tell me that it is impossible to react accordingly to that in that time frame. in short: you overextended and got hit for 14k damage over several reloads or by multiple people thus deserved to get rekt.
WARxion ForDUST G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 346	Posted - 2015.01.29 08:27:00 - [57] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Edau Skir2 wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Edau Skir2 wrote: So tonight in MinFW I was roaming around in a State Gunnlogi, with; 20gj Railgun X2 80gj Railgun Militia Heavy Shield Booster Militia Heavy Shield Extender X2 Militia Powered Upgrade Militia Railgun Ammo Expansion Unit and not a single AV'er could scratch it. Even after being hit by three swarms, I'd just activate the Booster and back to full health. Only thing that could kill me was another tank. So in summary, I do believe that something has to be adjusted to balance out the AV-Vehicle situation. If a swarm and forge can't scratch a tank with militia modules, something's wrong. If I can't shrug that off, you certainly can't. Really....we're going down the, "This guy's bs-ing us" route? If you died to what I faced, I suggest that you're a worse tank operator than I. Not only was it shrugged off, but the av-ers died in the process. The reason I put small turrets on my tanks isn't for others, it's so I can hop on them and mow infantry down with them. Here we go again. By three swarms, do you mean STD? Darkside? Because if they're PRO from a level 5 Minmando, you're nearly dead. If it's 3 different people, then I absolutely don't believe you. Wow man you are clearly out of your mind. You really want to survive in your shitfitted MLT tank against a PRO L5 Minmando with Officer Swarms and a Forger sidekick? Yeah that wouldn't be OP as ****. Yes, I'm that desperate...
Nirwanda Vaughns 1303	Posted - 2015.01.29 10:43:00 - [58] - Quote Simple solution. Gallente Plasma Forge gun. Never argue with an idiot. they bring you down to their level and beat you through experience proud C-II bpo owner
Baal Omniscient Qualified Scrub 2143	Posted - 2015.01.29 11:12:00 - [59] - Quote Dunno about most of this mess, but I've been dropping video bombs in the feedback section.... Don't make me show you the video of my fully MLT Sica with 2 MLT shield hardeners shrugging off 2 full swarm clips without even having to move..... Winmatar Assault, Proficiency 5 SMG's & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0 I GÖú Puppies (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.*pâ+n+ín+ƒ.
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 1286	Posted - 2015.01.29 13:19:00 - [60] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: mathematically impossible, you are another biased whiny wimp. in short: you overextended and got hit for 14k damage over several reloads or by multiple people thus deserved to get rekt Well, you've covered what actually happened, but that doesn't change the fact that the kill-feed showed 14k damage. Why it showed that is because they took 14k over however many shots from one person during their vehicle's lifespan, not because of the three shots fired last. Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.

IREK Ladybox Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2015.01.31 14:38:00 - [61] - Quote Edau Skir2 wrote: So tonight in MinFW I was roaming around in a State Gunnlogi, with; 20gj Railgun X2 80gj Railgun Militia Heavy Shield Booster Militia Heavy Shield Extender X2 Militia Powered Upgrade Militia Railgun Ammo Expansion Unit and not a single AV'er could scratch it. Even after being hit by three swarms, I'd just activate the Booster and back to full health. Only thing that could kill me was another tank. So in summary, I do believe that something has to be adjusted to balance out the AV-Vehicle situation. If a swarm and forge can't scratch a tank with militia modules, something's wrong. Everyone could have only been using starter fits, ether that or your a liar.
Flint Beastgood III Dead Man's Game RUST415 1322	Posted - 2015.01.31 15:48:00 - [62] - Quote LOL, I'll see your "OP tank" and raise you a "PLC and AV nades fit". I'd like to highlight the fact that you were in Min FW, and probably had an easy win, right? Skills - https://www.facebook.com/notes/flint-beastgood-iii/list-of-trained-skills/416505058477164
SeargentSAVAGE 0verstoned Inc. 16	Posted - 2015.02.01 21:52:00 - [63] - Quote For CCP agreeing with this is completely stupid. A fully militia fitted tank bragging about how he's OP and how he should be nerfed? Sounds like some dedicated AV trying to pull a fast one on you. Shields are meant to be strong for a short while, but once our modules are on cool down we'll get popped in seconds. 1 alone AV suit should not be able to pop a fully proto tank unless officer weaponry was used. Stop listening to people like this about buffing/nerfing of things. Vehicle buffs/nerfs should only be conversed by the competitive player base, not just someone who pulls out a militia tank and thinks he's all of a sudden a god. The players running vehicles in PC could tell you the balances/imbalances better then this guy ever can. But with this said AV could use a little nerfing. After raising the weekly SP cap to 750,000 almost everyone has some type of proto AV making vehicles disadvantaged against AV. The only thing wrong with tanks at the moment is the ancient issue of red line rail tanks. I specced into my vehicles to fight not guard a redline with a triple damage modded particle cannons. Stop trying to find ways to buff AV, there are way too many proto swarms and plasma cannons with a forge reving up behind them ready for a killshot to do that. For every good vehicle specialists theres at least 10 proto AV users, therefore if you continue to only listen to the AV all the vehicles will be nerfed into oblivion.
Mex-0 T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K General Tso's Alliance 344	Posted - 2015.02.01 22:21:00 - [64] - Quote SeargentSAVAGE wrote: For CCP agreeing with this is completely stupid. A fully militia fitted tank bragging about how he's OP and how he should be nerfed? Sounds like some dedicated AV trying to pull a fast one on you. Shields are meant to be strong for a short while, but once our modules are on cool down we'll get popped in seconds. 1 alone AV suit should not be able to pop a fully proto tank unless officer weaponry was used. Stop listening to people like this about buffing/nerfing of things. Vehicle buffs/nerfs should only be conversed by the competitive player base, not just someone who pulls out a militia tank and thinks he's all of a sudden a god. The players running vehicles in PC could tell you the balances/imbalances better then this guy ever can. But with this said AV could use a little nerfing. After raising the weekly SP cap to 750,000 almost everyone has some type of proto AV making vehicles disadvantaged against AV. The only thing wrong with tanks at the moment is the ancient issue of red line rail tanks. I specced into my vehicles to fight not guard a redline with a triple damage modded particle cannons. Stop trying to find ways to buff AV, there are way too many proto swarms and plasma cannons with a forge reving up behind them ready for a killshot to do that. For every good vehicle specialists theres at least 10 proto AV users, therefore if you continue to only listen to the AV all the vehicles will be nerfed into oblivion. k Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉn¦ñ
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 698	Posted - 2015.02.01 22:43:00 - [65] - Quote Edau Skir2 wrote: I never just "roam". Always at the objectives trying to secure them for our side, and in this case, kill other vehicles and any infantry inbetween. As for the forger, they do what, 1500-2100 at proto level? In the time it would take you to kill me with a forge, (4 hits with proto assault forge, or 4 hits with a Breach forge), I'd of tailed it out of there and come back at full health. 12s (Quickest forge charge time for Assault) is easily enough time to find cover and regen, even with the 25% reduction. (So, 9s) What's stopping me from getting into a good position where I can hit you over half the map? What's stopping me from using an LAV to chase you down? What's stopping me from using a flux or two? What's stopping me from shooting your weak point? What is it about AV vs Vehicle battles, that forces every calculation to be decided based on [AV is stupid and can't think for itself] vs [vehicle knows it's maximum capabilities and has perfect awareness] ??? Lets put this to infantry vs infantry, if I want to down a sentinel suit I have to outplay the heavy suit, because it has more hp at every tier than me... Should I just complain and say "I should be able to take the heavy on in a head to head just by spraying it's body?" or should I complain when a scout dodges my wild inaccurate spray of bullets and makes off to a safe place? Lets say in this mathematically 'perfect' universe of yours, I hit you with a flux, you then use your booster, which fails because of the second flux, I then have the forge charged and manage to pump a round into your weak spot... What tier of things do I need to kill you, or even just leave you with only enough hp to take a hit from a shotgun? I'm also not sure on why we're suggesting a State Gunni counts as militia... If the issue is that it requires no skill points then perhaps we should just increase the 'skill level' requirements to be the same as the normal Gunni and have a state Sica as it's replacement... Show me an immortal Sica if you can.
Edau Skir2 Nefantar Raiders 350	Posted - 2015.02.01 23:05:00 - [66] - Quote SeargentSAVAGE wrote: For CCP agreeing with this is completely stupid. A fully militia fitted tank bragging about how he's OP and how he should be nerfed? Sounds like some dedicated AV trying to pull a fast one on you. Shields are meant to be strong for a short while, but once our modules are on cool down we'll get popped in seconds. 1 alone AV suit should not be able to pop a fully proto tank unless officer weaponry was used. Stop listening to people like this about buffing/nerfing of things. Vehicle buffs/nerfs should only be conversed by the competitive player base, not just someone who pulls out a militia tank and thinks he's all of a sudden a god. The players running vehicles in PC could tell you the balances/imbalances better then this guy ever can. But with this said AV could use a little nerfing. After raising the weekly SP cap to 750,000 almost everyone has some type of proto AV making vehicles disadvantaged against AV. The only thing wrong with tanks at the moment is the ancient issue of red line rail tanks. I specced into my vehicles to fight not guard a redline with a triple damage modded particle cannons. Stop trying to find ways to buff AV, there are way too many proto swarms and plasma cannons with a forge reving up behind them ready for a killshot to do that. For every good vehicle specialists theres at least 10 proto AV users, therefore if you continue to only listen to the AV all the vehicles will be nerfed into oblivion. ^Someone's a bit of a cynical moron. The reason I post things like this, and get listened to about it, is because I never cry for a nerf/buff because someone owned me repeatedly with it, but because I actively test these things out. Considering you think CCP are agreeing with me is ridiculous, their proposed Vehicle Changes were around long before this post. Git-smart-fast in future before commenting. As for your comment Derpty Derp, it barely qualifies as acknowledging. Saying that I'm living in a perfect calculations universe....your last post insinuates you live in a perfect scenario universe. Works both ways pal. Resident pasty smasher
NINEinch WEAPON WarRavens Capital Punishment. 48	Posted - 2015.02.01 23:44:00 - [67] - Quote Hmmm, if only we had an amarr heavy weapon, those Gunlogi's would be in a bit of strife.. "winning" an inch at a time
SeargentSAVAGE 0verstoned Inc. 18	Posted - 2015.02.02 19:30:00 - [68] - Quote Edau Skir2 wrote: SeargentSAVAGE wrote: For CCP agreeing with this is completely stupid. A fully militia fitted tank bragging about how he's OP and how he should be nerfed? Sounds like some dedicated AV trying to pull a fast one on you. Shields are meant to be strong for a short while, but once our modules are on cool down we'll get popped in seconds. 1 alone AV suit should not be able to pop a fully proto tank unless officer weaponry was used. Stop listening to people like this about buffing/nerfing of things. Vehicle buffs/nerfs should only be conversed by the competitive player base, not just someone who pulls out a militia tank and thinks he's all of a sudden a god. The players running vehicles in PC could tell you the balances/imbalances better then this guy ever can. But with this said AV could use a little nerfing. After raising the weekly SP cap to 750,000 almost everyone has some type of proto AV making vehicles disadvantaged against AV. The only thing wrong with tanks at the moment is the ancient issue of red line rail tanks. I specced into my vehicles to fight not guard a redline with a triple damage modded particle cannons. Stop trying to find ways to buff AV, there are way too many proto swarms and plasma cannons with a forge reving up behind them ready for a killshot to do that. For every good vehicle specialists theres at least 10 proto AV users, therefore if you continue to only listen to the AV all the vehicles will be nerfed into oblivion. ^Someone's a bit of a cynical moron. The reason I post things like this, and get listened to about it, is because I never cry for a nerf/buff because someone owned me repeatedly with it, but because I actively test these things out. Considering you think CCP are agreeing with me is ridiculous, their proposed Vehicle Changes were around long before this post. Git-smart-fast in future before commenting. As for your comment Derpty Derp, it barely qualifies as acknowledging. Saying that I'm living in a perfect calculations universe....your last post insinuates you live in a perfect scenario universe. Works both ways pal. Completely tested? Then how come you haven't taken damage mods into affect? I can easily pop that poorly fitted state gunlogi with simply 3 volleys of triple com damaged modded proto swarms and right when you think that shield booster will work after my 2nd volley I simply chuck a proto packed av grenade to stop it dead in its tracks with little to no regen followed by another nade and the last volley in my clip as you run in terror realizing your calculations were were completely wrong. don't challenge actual vehicle specialists, derpty derp is an exceptional tanker, probably the only missle tank that i've ever had a problem with killing and everything he has said has made complete sense. Tankers know fellow tankers and the actual good AV players out there and I have never noticed your name before therefore you should have no say in the buffing of AV because you had one good match in a **** poor tank fit. like I said competitive players active in PC should be the ones to decide things like this seeing that we take everything more serious then others that are just simply playing for fun. And just simply because our matches actually matter and 1 unnecessary nerf/buff could mean losing a district or multiple districts just because some whiny little girl hopped on the forums and whined constantly about dying or in your case were someone claims to be completely OP but in reality is just completely idiotic playing factional on the known stomping side of min. I probably could of pulled out a methana with a small particle cannon in that match and stole all your points and not even lose the LAV then this thread would of been about how my LAV was OP instead of your tank. get over it your calculations were completely off and the fact a dev even posted on this thread is sad
Doc DDD TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 300	Posted - 2015.02.02 21:02:00 - [69] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Gunnlogis are pretty OP, and Maddies UP. Take a look at the HAV thread in Feedback for rebalancing efforts. Rattati, Blindly believing and encouraging posts like these are part of the balance problem. A random player claims to have a gunlogi with 4000 shields, this is the same amount of armor a madrugar has BEFORE adding plates or armor repairers. The same random player now claims he is hit with 2 volleys of swarms, which even at militia do 1000 damage per volley, so now he is down to 2000 shields and hits his shield booster, and this makes shield tanks OP? If the av player had proto swarms and a damage mod that tanks would pop in one clip. This thread wreaks of an AV player trying to nerf tanks, a madrugar would have laughed at the swarms and out repped the damage without activating a module. Shield tanks are not OP, and armor tanks suffer from lack of cpu/pg and hardeners that are near useless making them a little underpowered. Having this terrible AV player post in your balance discussion will do nothing for balance.
Thumb Green Raymond James Corp 2051	Posted - 2015.02.02 21:52:00 - [70] - Quote Doc DDD wrote: Rattati, Blindly believing and encouraging posts like these are part of the balance problem. A random player claims to have a gunlogi with 4000 shields, this is the same amount of armor a madrugar has BEFORE adding plates or armor repairers. The same random player now claims he is hit with 2 volleys of swarms, which even at militia do 1000 damage per volley, so now he is down to 2000 shields and hits his shield booster, and this makes shield tanks OP? If the av player had proto swarms and a damage mod that tanks would pop in one clip. Not exactly, even on a proto mindo with a complex damage mod that tank would still survive a clip which would do around 3504.39 damage to shields in 3 volleys. So after 3 volleys the tank would have 495.61 shield left and that's not taking into account what recharges in the time it takes each volley to reach the tank, the use of a booster, & the use of a shield hardener. It also assumes each missile of each volley hits. Of course it's still closer to being popped than most are comfortable with. Why does everyone ignore the point? [RYJC]

SeargentSAVAGE 0verstoned Inc. 21	Posted - 2015.02.02 22:03:00 - [71] - Quote Cal assault 3 complex damage mods proto packed av nades, 2 volleys+nades+1volley=bye bye tank
Doc DDD TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 301	Posted - 2015.02.02 22:28:00 - [72] - Quote Thumb Green wrote: Doc DDD wrote: Rattati, Blindly believing and encouraging posts like these are part of the balance problem. A random player claims to have a gunlogi with 4000 shields, this is the same amount of armor a madrugar has BEFORE adding plates or armor repairers. The same random player now claims he is hit with 2 volleys of swarms, which even at militia do 1000 damage per volley, so now he is down to 2000 shields and hits his shield booster, and this makes shield tanks OP? If the av player had proto swarms and a damage mod that tanks would pop in one clip. Not exactly, even on a proto mindo with a complex damage mod that tank would still survive a clip which would do around 3504.39 damage to shields in 3 volleys. So after 3 volleys the tank would have 495.61 shield left and that's not taking into account what recharges in the time it takes each volley to reach the tank, the use of a booster, & the use of a shield hardener. It also assumes each missile of each volley hits. Of course it's still closer to being popped than most are comfortable with. The shield would rep zero points during flight time There was no hardener in his build This thread is an AV players sad attempt to nerf vehicles, again. He is complaining that his tank didn't pop when a swarmer shot at him twice when any capable minded av player would pop that tank in under 10 seconds
Thumb Green Raymond James Corp 2051	Posted - 2015.02.02 22:55:00 - [73] - Quote Doc DDD wrote: The shield would rep zero points during flight time There was no hardener in his build The last two sentences were more of a general statement rather than specific to the OP's fit. Doc DDD wrote: He is complaining that his tank didn't pop when a swarmer shot at him twice when any capable minded av player would pop that tank in under 10 seconds Not in one clip though. Why does everyone ignore the point? [RYJC]
Doc DDD TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 301	Posted - 2015.02.02 23:17:00 - [74] - Quote Thumb Green wrote: Doc DDD wrote: The shield would rep zero points during flight time There was no hardener in his build The last two sentences were more of a general statement rather than specific to the OP's fit. Doc DDD wrote: He is complaining that his tank didn't pop when a swarmer shot at him twice when any capable minded av player would pop that tank in under 10 seconds Not in one clip though. There is no point. His attempt at a point is he used all his skill of locking on with swarms for an entire clip and a tank didn't pop so tanks need a nerf.
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 698	Posted - 2015.02.02 23:41:00 - [75] - Quote Edau Skir2 wrote: your last post insinuates you live in a perfect scenario universe. Works both ways pal. That would be my point. It does work both ways, so why only consider the one?
Edau Skir2 Nefantar Raiders 350	Posted - 2015.02.03 07:38:00 - [76] - Quote Thumb Green wrote: Doc DDD wrote: Rattati, Blindly believing and encouraging posts like these are part of the balance problem. A random player claims to have a gunlogi with 4000 shields, this is the same amount of armor a madrugar has BEFORE adding plates or armor repairers. The same random player now claims he is hit with 2 volleys of swarms, which even at militia do 1000 damage per volley, so now he is down to 2000 shields and hits his shield booster, and this makes shield tanks OP? If the av player had proto swarms and a damage mod that tanks would pop in one clip. Not exactly, even on a proto mindo with a complex damage mod that tank would still survive a clip which would do around 3504.39 damage to shields in 3 volleys. So after 3 volleys the tank would have 495.61 shield left and that's not taking into account what recharges in the time it takes each volley to reach the tank, the use of a booster, & the use of a shield hardener. It also assumes each missile of each volley hits. Of course it's still closer to being popped than most are comfortable with. I'm so glad someone understands basic Mathematics. Resident pasty smasher
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 2013	Posted - 2015.02.03 10:42:00 - [77] - Quote Edau Skir2 wrote: If the av player had proto swarms and a damage mod that tanks would pop in one clip. Not exactly, even on a proto mindo with a complex damage mod that tank would still survive a clip which would do around 3504.39 damage to shields in 3 volleys. So after 3 volleys the tank would have 495.61 shield left and that's not taking into account what recharges in the time it takes each volley to reach the tank, the use of a booster, & the use of a shield hardener. It also assumes each missile of each volley hits. Of course it's still closer to being popped than most are comfortable with.[/quote] I'm so glad someone understands basic Mathematics.[/quote] yeah, all that anti swarm whining is just a pathetic farce. pilots are just littly whiny wimps. with fire interval, burst interval, lock on delay (not lock on time which is also additionally to that) you will at best fire a volley per 2,55s and that is not accounting any UI delays we currently have. that is 489 base dps with proto swarms before reload and 326 base dps factoring in reload. STD swarms fired as fast as possible => https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEmCY4Qh0jk skip to 1:35 01:36:00 Start first lock 01:37:73 First lock complete 01:38:60 First swarm finishes firing 01:40:93 Second lock completes 01:41:63 Second swarm finishes firing 01:44:53 Third lock completes 01:45:47 Third swarm finishes firing in comparison: PLC has 0.5s fire interval additionally to charge up. with max reload skill and proto PLC that would be ~294 base dps. regular forge guns have 360 dps, the assault variant has even more. swarms are actually in line with the rest of the AV options in terms of DPS.
itssnowingon me The Exemplars RISE of LEGION 4	Posted - 2015.02.03 11:07:00 - [78] - Quote I don't think u had a good aver with a minima do work for your tank
Edau Skir2 Nefantar Raiders 350	Posted - 2015.02.03 11:44:00 - [79] - Quote itssnowingon me wrote: I don't think u had a good aver with a minima do work for your tank Which is what I've highlighted time and time again in this post. Like I said on the night I posted this, AV-er's SHOULD NOT HAVE TO BE RUNNING PROTO. But I am having one hell of a laugh reading posts calling me a liar, or essentially stupid, etc etc. This community is getting almost as bad as the EVE forums. Such a shame none of the av-ers from that match came forward to clarify my point. I would love to see the response. But it would probably just be "Av-ers agreeing so their weapons get buffs. Stop qq-ing and leave your isk and tears at the door" or something equally ignorant. Unlike most tank drivers, I don't feel invincible in a tank because AV'ers barely hurt me if they aren't running proto, I point out the faults in the system, in an effort to get us an all round balanced game. I certainly don't see any of you dissenters doing anything to that end. Resident pasty smasher
IREK Ladybox Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 2	Posted - 2015.02.04 05:49:00 - [80] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Gunnlogis are pretty OP, and Maddies UP. Take a look at the HAV thread in Feedback for rebalancing efforts. There is no such thing as an op tank anymore, period .



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