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Plasma Cannons should do more DPS than Swarms.

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Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2310	Posted - 2015.01.19 21:03:00 - [1] - Quote GÇóA Swarm Luncher outputs 1040-1248 damage every 1.4 seconds without factoring any Damage multipliers, just base damage. That's a total of 742-891 DPS, depending on tier. Currently, Plasma Cannons do 1150-1501.5 damage every 4.1 seconds, without factoring in any Damage multipliers. That's only 280 DPS at the Standard tier, and still only 366.21 DPS at Prototype. A PRO Plasma Cannon deals less than half the DPS a Standard Swarm Launcher does. That's messed up. Even if we max out every reload and charge time skill, and increase the damage as much as we can with a Gallente Commando and Damage mods... We still only get 696.63 DPS. Still less than a Standard Swarm Launcher on any suit. This is rediculous. So let's increase Plasma Cannons to Swarm levels of DPS. At the base level. Without any modifiers accounted for. 1.) Buff Damage. By a ***** lot. An Allotek Plasma Cannon should outDPS a PRO Swarm launcher, without having to factor in any other multipliers. It just should. Period. At the very least, it should do the same DPS. With this in mind, an Allotek Plasma Cannon should deal 3653.1 direct damage. That would puts its DPS on par with a Kaalakiota SL. So... Standard PLC: 3042.2 Damage Advanced PLC: 3347.65 Damage Allotek PLC: 3653.1 Damage This would mean that an Plasma Cannon would OHK or 2-shot ANY** vehicles. Any tank would just die if they get shot in the rear, unless they have any hardeners active. Otherwise they would take 2 hits. ADSes would always instapop. As they should. Hitting those things is still hard. Standard DSs would be able to take 2 hits if they fit a bit of tank. LAVs too. Hitting them is the hardest, unless they are parked. They would always be OHK. And you know what? Thats completely reasonable... Home at Last <3
Vesta Opalus T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K General Tso's Alliance 307	Posted - 2015.01.19 21:07:00 - [2] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: GÇóA Swarm Luncher outputs 1040-1248 damage every 1.4 seconds without factoring any Damage multipliers, just base damage. That's a total of 742-891 DPS, depending on tier. Currently, Plasma Cannons do 1150-1501.5 damage every 4.1 seconds, without factoring in any Damage multipliers. That's only 280 DPS at the Standard tier, and still only 366.21 DPS at Prototype. A PRO Plasma Cannon deals less than half the DPS a Standard Swarm Launcher does. That's messed up. Even if we max out every reload and charge time skill, and increase the damage as much as we can with a Gallente Commando and Damage mods... We still only get 696.63 DPS. Still less than a Standard Swarm Launcher on any suit. This is rediculous. So let's increase Plasma Cannons to Swarm levels of DPS. At the base level. Without any modifiers accounted for. 1.) Buff Damage. By a ***** lot. An Allotek Plasma Cannon should outDPS a PRO Swarm launcher, without having to factor in any other multipliers. It just should. Period. At the very least, it should do the same DPS. With this in mind, an Allotek Plasma Cannon should deal 3653.1 direct damage. That would puts its DPS on par with a Kaalakiota SL. So... Standard PLC: 3042.2 Damage Advanced PLC: 3347.65 Damage Allotek PLC: 3653.1 Damage This would mean that an Plasma Cannon would OHK or 2-shot ANY vehicles. Any tank would just die if they get shot in the rear, unless they have any hardeners active. Otherwise they would take 2 hits. ADSes would always instapop. As they should. Hitting those things is still hard. Standard DSs would be able to take 2 hits if they fit a bit of tank. LAVs too. Hitting them is the hardest, unless they are parked. They would always be OHK. And you know what? Thats completely reasonable... Might be overpowered but I agree the plasma cannon is ** as AV and am willing to try a buff like this to try and bring it into a useful state (as long as we keep the splash damage roughly the same against infantry) Also might be particularly OP with x2 PLCs on the commando frames, but hey worth a shot.
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2312	Posted - 2015.01.19 21:10:00 - [3] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: Might be overpowered but I agree the plasma cannon is **** as AV and am willing to try a buff like this to try and bring it into a useful state (as long as we keep the splash damage roughly the same against infantry) Splash Damage and Radius would remained untouched. Only the direct damage would be changed. Its anti-infantry capabilies would be no different that they currently are, other than that brick tanked heavies would no longer be able to take a hit from them. Home at Last <3
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 20917	Posted - 2015.01.19 21:11:00 - [4] - Quote I do find it hilarious that a lock on weapon that is really difficult to miss with massively outDPSes a weapon which takes a good deal of skill to aim and is very difficult to use at a quarter of the max range of said lock on weapon. Sometimes, one just has an overwhelming urge to throw a potato at someone.
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2312	Posted - 2015.01.19 21:14:00 - [5] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: I do find it hilarious that a lock on weapon that is really difficult to miss with massively outDPSes a weapon which takes a good deal of skill to aim and is very difficult to use at a quarter of the max range of said lock on weapon. Precisely. It should at least do the same DPS. They deserve that at least. Home at Last <3
Grimmiers 764	Posted - 2015.01.19 21:16:00 - [6] - Quote I want 3 shots per clip like the swarm. Officer can do 4.
KING CHECKMATE Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 7078	Posted - 2015.01.19 21:17:00 - [7] - Quote ''Plasma Cannons should do more DPS than Swarms'' No they shouldnt. Reason is that PC hits infantry too while Swarms dont. This gives PC an innate advatage in usefulness over Swarms. Of course, i wouldnt mind the PC getting buffed at all, just saying why the above statement is incorrect. Wouldnt mind getting dumb fire for swarms either. Playing as : Calscout + Amarr Assault
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16684	Posted - 2015.01.19 21:18:00 - [8] - Quote The Plasma Cannon Charge time is 0.45 Seconds and 2.2 seconds on the reload...... on a Commando. You should be throwing out PLC rounds every 2.65 seconds if I am not mistaken. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2312	Posted - 2015.01.19 21:19:00 - [9] - Quote Grimmiers wrote: I want 3 shots per clip like the swarm. Officer can do 4. Nah. It should remain a skill shot weapon. There is a reason its is one of the communities favorite weapons. The actual mechanics of the weapon should remain unchanged. Maybe an Assault Variant with more shots per mag. Home at Last <3
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2313	Posted - 2015.01.19 21:20:00 - [10] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: ''Plasma Cannons should do more DPS than Swarms'' No they shouldnt. Reason is that PC hits infantry too while Swarms dont. This gives PC an innate advatage in usefulness over Swarms. Of course, i wouldnt mind the PC getting buffed at all, just saying why the above statement is incorrect. Wouldnt mind getting dumb fire for swarms either. The extra skill required to use a plasma cannon compared to swarms is enough to justify it being usable against infantry as well. It should at least have the same DPS. Home at Last <3

Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 20921	Posted - 2015.01.19 21:22:00 - [11] - Quote True Adamance wrote: The Plasma Cannon Charge time is 0.45 Seconds and 2.2 seconds on the reload...... on a Commando. You should be throwing out PLC rounds every 2.65 seconds if I am not mistaken. If you have max skills and a proto commando, yes. If you apply that to swarms the gap widens just as happily though, so unless you want to compare maxed out items to base items and draw false conclusions from that it's sort of a pointless exercise. KING CHECKMATE wrote: ''Plasma Cannons should do more DPS than Swarms'' No they shouldnt. Reason is that PC hits infantry too while Swarms dont. This gives PC an innate advatage in usefulness over Swarms. Of course, i wouldnt mind the PC getting buffed at all, just saying why the above statement is incorrect. Wouldnt mind getting dumb fire for swarms either. The plasma cannon is far, far, far more difficult to use than swarm launchers. Swarm launchers are probably the easiest weapon in the game to use - the plasma cannon is at the opposite end of the spectrum entirely. The advantage of being usable against infantry (although it's certainly not a prime anti-infantry weapon) is very much justified even if the plasma cannon were to be able to compete with swarms on raw DPS because the applied DPS is likely to be vastly lower. Sometimes, one just has an overwhelming urge to throw a potato at someone.
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2313	Posted - 2015.01.19 21:22:00 - [12] - Quote True Adamance wrote: The Plasma Cannon Charge time is 0.45 Seconds and 2.2 seconds on the reload...... on a Commando. You should be throwing out PLC rounds every 2.65 seconds if I am not mistaken. Yup. A Galmando with a max-skill Plasma Cannon would become just as deadly as a Minmando with a max-skill Swarm Launcher. Both are ultra specialized fits. This seems reasonable. Home at Last <3
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16686	Posted - 2015.01.19 21:24:00 - [13] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: True Adamance wrote: The Plasma Cannon Charge time is 0.45 Seconds and 2.2 seconds on the reload...... on a Commando. You should be throwing out PLC rounds every 2.65 seconds if I am not mistaken. If you have max skills and a proto commando, yes. If you apply that to swarms the gap widens just as happily though, so unless you want to compare maxed out items to base items and draw false conclusions from that it's sort of a pointless exercise. You make a very valid point. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
THUNDERGROOVE Fatal Absolution 1304	Posted - 2015.01.19 21:32:00 - [14] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: ''Plasma Cannons should do more DPS than Swarms'' No they shouldnt. Reason is that PC hits infantry too while Swarms dont. This gives PC an innate advatage in usefulness over Swarms. Of course, i wouldnt mind the PC getting buffed at all, just saying why the above statement is incorrect. Wouldnt mind getting dumb fire for swarms either. The PLC one hits almost every suit, except sentinels. It should one hit sentinels. **** sentinels. Dual tanking is for bad players. Come play a better game.
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1741	Posted - 2015.01.19 21:40:00 - [15] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: OP POST Agreed that, on paper at least, PLC should have more DPS than Swarms. Reasoning: First is moderately easy/difficult to hit on the first show, extremely difficult on follow-up shots. The Swarm is very easy from first to last shots. Also, there's free guidance. Personal experience: when tanking, I just lol at plasma cannons and their shots. The only advantage they have is their moderate alpha augmented by extra shield damage. So, I'm up for either: a) upping PLC DPS. OR b) making swarms less easy to hit. Oh and one more thing: I'm not into that OHKing tanks thing. Pro-choice! For hazardous self-activated inertial dampeners! We want to live on the edge (((of MCC)))
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 20924	Posted - 2015.01.19 21:42:00 - [16] - Quote If you buff direct damage on the placon, it only really buffs its AV ability and not its anti-infantry ability, bar cracking the occasional very tough sentinel, but honestly that's nothing to worry about. Sometimes, one just has an overwhelming urge to throw a potato at someone.
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2314	Posted - 2015.01.19 21:46:00 - [17] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: OP POST Agreed that, on paper at least, PLC should have more DPS than Swarms. Reasoning: First is moderately easy/difficult to hit on the first show, extremely difficult on follow-up shots. The Swarm is very easy from first to last shots. Also, there's free guidance. Personal experience: when tanking, I just lol at plasma cannons and their shots. The only advantage they have is their moderate alpha augmented by extra shield damage. So, I'm up for either: a) upping PLC DPS. OR b) making swarms less easy to hit. Oh and one more thing: I'm not into that OHKing tanks thing. Like I said. The OHKing would only happen if they shot you in the weak point, and if you don't have any hardeners active. Otherwise, any HAV with decent HP would take two shots to kill. So pretty much just fit 1 HP mod and 2 hardeners, and you'll be immune to the OHKs as long as you cycle the hardeners, and then Plasma Cannons would then take 3-5 shots to kill you while they are active. This way, the high skill vehicle playstyle, which is cycling hardeners, would be the direct counter to the high skill AV playstyle which is Plasma Cannons. Home at Last <3
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 7286	Posted - 2015.01.19 21:48:00 - [18] - Quote I think a damage buff to direct fire is reasonable. It really doesn't matter to my 200, or even my 300 HP scout if it gets direct hit with a PLC. Same thing happens. Plus, since you have to reload after every round, it still gives vehicles time to activate hardeners and/or escape. I don't see anything wrong with it. Thunderbolt. verb and noun. "James thunderbolted in his pants." "I lit a bag of thunderbolt on fire on CCP's doorway"
LUGMOS Quafe Premium 1606	Posted - 2015.01.19 21:55:00 - [19] - Quote As long as it doesn't become mainstream OP... I don't like the OHKO/2HKO thing, tho, because then commandos could instapop any tank. Official QuafeGäó Advocate Anti-FoTM Prof. V Forum Scavenger Prof. V
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2314	Posted - 2015.01.19 21:58:00 - [20] - Quote Do you guys want to know the best part about all this? Even if the Plasma cannon did that much damage... A maxed out SL on a Minmando with Damage mods would still outDPS a maxed PLC on a Galmando with Damage mods. This is the extend of the PLC being UP. Its so ridiculously UP, that even buffing its damage by nearly 200% wouldn't make it as good at AV as a swarm launcher. Home at Last <3

Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2314	Posted - 2015.01.19 22:07:00 - [21] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: As long as it doesn't become mainstream OP... I don't like the OHKO/2HKO thing, tho, because then commandos could instapop any tank. A Minmando with a maxed SL and damage mods can already 3 shot pretty much any tank. Wouldn't you at least be happy that its Plasma Cannons killing you? Also, its still only a OHK for an unhardened critical hit. Pretty damn hard to do unless the HAV is just sitting there, in which case its still difficult to do at any ranges over 50m. Those critical hit spots are smaller than scouts. Just stay moving and you won't get OHKed, pretty much. If you are going to sit still, just activate a hardener and you won't get OHKed. The actual amount of AV would hardly increase. There would just be more Plasma Cannons and less Swarms. Home at Last <3
Sequal's Back Les Desanusseurs 157	Posted - 2015.01.19 22:38:00 - [22] - Quote I think PLC needs a really big damage buff against vehicles too, but not as much as you said. I don't want people to cry about it. I think a 1000HP/shot increase would already be an amazing change! I don't think ADS should get 1 shotted by PLC (except if it's full proto PLC vs MLT derpship of course). Rise? That's what they used to call me. Sequal Rise. That was my name. Now I come Back to you, at the turn of the tide.
J0LLY R0G3R And the ButtPirates 1832	Posted - 2015.01.19 22:42:00 - [23] - Quote Can confirm plasma cannon is weak. Needs buff. XD TLDR : Last Dust Montage
Victor889 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 189	Posted - 2015.01.19 22:45:00 - [24] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: OP POST Agreed that, on paper at least, PLC should have more DPS than Swarms. Reasoning: First is moderately easy/difficult to hit on the first show, extremely difficult on follow-up shots. The Swarm is very easy from first to last shots. Also, there's free guidance. Personal experience: when tanking, I just lol at plasma cannons and their shots. The only advantage they have is their moderate alpha augmented by extra shield damage. So, I'm up for either: a) upping PLC DPS. OR b) making swarms less easy to hit. Oh and one more thing: I'm not into that OHKing tanks thing. Like I said. The OHKing would only happen if they shot you in the weak point, and if you don't have any hardeners active. Otherwise, any HAV with decent HP would take two shots to kill. So pretty much just fit 1 HP mod and 2 hardeners, and you'll be immune to the OHKs as long as you cycle the hardeners, and then Plasma Cannons would then take 3-5 shots to kill you while they are active. This way, the high skill vehicle playstyle, which is cycling hardeners, would be the direct counter to the high skill AV playstyle which is Plasma Cannons. That's all very well and good but that also opens up the avenues for a cloaked scout with a proto PC to one shot any tank as it can get behind it with relative ease, this would be entirely unfair. What about making the lock on time for swarms slightly longer? then if you are dumb enough to stick around in the fire zone then you deserve to be shot down. Part time Logi, Full time heavy.
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2314	Posted - 2015.01.19 22:46:00 - [25] - Quote Sequal's Back wrote: I think PLC needs a really big damage buff against vehicles too, but not as much as you said. I don't want people to cry about it. I think a 1000HP/shot increase would already be an amazing change! I don't think ADS should get 1 shotted by PLC (except if it's full proto PLC vs MLT derpship of course). An Incubus with some decent tank would be able to take 1 shot, but they would be severely damaged. Pythons would usually die in one hit, unless they have a hardener active. But since the PLC is an alpha weapon, the first shot is more likely to land on an unhardened target. So they would usually die in one hit. So generally, Incubus goes in 2 shots, and Pythons in 1 shot. Considering Damage profiles and junk, this seems to work out nicely. Home at Last <3
Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 267	Posted - 2015.01.19 22:46:00 - [26] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Do you guys want to know the best part about all this? Even if the Plasma cannon did that much damage... A maxed out SL on a Minmando with Damage mods would still outDPS a maxed PLC on a Galmando with Damage mods. This is the extend of the PLC being UP. Its so ridiculously UP, that even buffing its damage by nearly 200% wouldn't make it as good at AV as a swarm launcher. Can't tell if serious or not
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2314	Posted - 2015.01.19 22:49:00 - [27] - Quote Victor889 wrote: That's all very well and good but that also opens up the avenues for a cloaked scout with a proto PC to one shot any tank as it can get behind it with relative ease, this would be entirely unfair. What about making the lock on time for swarms slightly longer? then if you are dumb enough to stick around in the fire zone then you deserve to be shot down. Like I said up above, just stay moving and you are exceedingly unlikely to get OHKed, because those critical hit spots are just as small if not smaller than a scout suit, and HAVs move even faster than a scout. Besides that they are also impossible to hit from the front and sides. So really, if you are moving at all, even just slowly through a city, you are extremely unlikely to be OHKed. If you do need to sit still however, just activate a hardener. That will make you immune to any OHKs. Home at Last <3
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2314	Posted - 2015.01.19 22:51:00 - [28] - Quote Juno Tristan wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Do you guys want to know the best part about all this? Even if the Plasma cannon did that much damage... A maxed out SL on a Minmando with Damage mods would still outDPS a maxed PLC on a Galmando with Damage mods. This is the extend of the PLC being UP. Its so ridiculously UP, that even buffing its damage by nearly 200% wouldn't make it as good at AV as a swarm launcher. Can't tell if serious or not I'm dead serious. Home at Last <3
Jakkal Shoobah Y.A.M.A.H 46	Posted - 2015.01.19 22:51:00 - [29] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: ''Plasma Cannons should do more DPS than Swarms'' [b] No they shouldnt. Reason is that PC hits infantry too while Swarms dont. This gives PC an innate advatage in usefulness over Swarms. First of all learn English ********** or go post with the damn japs and Latinos. Second of all why SHOULD the Av weapon that requires the second most skill of all Av (knives are first) have the lowest dps and least reward for hitting your target regardless of what it is ? Think about how plasmas inflict damage. Either a direct hit or splash damage with a third of the direct damage. Next think with your puny ***** brain. What's the primary form of Av you see infantry using every match ? It is definitely not the plasma because swarms can AUTOMATICALLY LOCK on by simply holding the trigger. Plasmas are probably the third or second slowest flying projectile in the game. Maybe slightly faster than mass drivers and flaylocks. They involve aiming and leading your target and timing your shots. To be effective with a plasma you must be EXTREMELY PRECISE in most situations. So why are swarms rewarded with an extra 3k damage per clip, easier firing mode, and the ability to chase targets around the map ? The only advantage of plasma cannons is the ability to free fire. Is this not bassackwards ? I wholeheartedly agree with Fizzer While slow to anger and occasionally indecisive, they are also capable of harnessing enormous resolve when truly tested.
Nirwanda Vaughns 1239	Posted - 2015.01.19 23:01:00 - [30] - Quote not more, but at least equal to. i worked some numbers out and your'e actualy better off spending SP into proto flux nades. it'll cost you bout 2m SP whereas to get PLC to do similar damage will take around 6m SP (gal commando 5, PLC prof 5, Weapon upgrades 5) slightly unbalanced Never argue with an idiot. they bring you down to their level and beat you through experience proud C-II bpo owner

Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 267	Posted - 2015.01.19 23:04:00 - [31] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Juno Tristan wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Do you guys want to know the best part about all this? Even if the Plasma cannon did that much damage... A maxed out SL on a Minmando with Damage mods would still outDPS a maxed PLC on a Galmando with Damage mods. This is the extend of the PLC being UP. Its so ridiculously UP, that even buffing its damage by nearly 200% wouldn't make it as good at AV as a swarm launcher. Can't tell if serious or not I'm dead serious. So you're not illustrating that swarms are OP? Ok then, they do less damage because they are not specialist, you can target infantry and vehicles with them
Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 5626	Posted - 2015.01.19 23:07:00 - [32] - Quote Heh... Heheh... MWAHAHAHAHAHA! YES!!! But splash should be the same, or only increased by 50 dmg and 1m MAX. If this is made true, though, the officer Plasma Cannon would be an instant I-Win Button if that Tank or whatever gets Wooton your preferred range.
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2314	Posted - 2015.01.19 23:08:00 - [33] - Quote Juno Tristan wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Juno Tristan wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Do you guys want to know the best part about all this? Even if the Plasma cannon did that much damage... A maxed out SL on a Minmando with Damage mods would still outDPS a maxed PLC on a Galmando with Damage mods. This is the extend of the PLC being UP. Its so ridiculously UP, that even buffing its damage by nearly 200% wouldn't make it as good at AV as a swarm launcher. Can't tell if serious or not I'm dead serious. So you're not illustrating that swarms are OP? Ok then, they do less damage because they are not specialist, you can target infantry and vehicles with them As myself and others pointed out. The increased skill requirement of Plasma cannons compared to Swarm Launchers is more than enough to justify them being usable on infantry as well. They have one of the highest skill requirements in the game as far as weapons are concerned, possibly the highest, but that's debatable with Nova Knives. Besides, we already have other weapons that are usable on both infantry and vehicles, such as Nova Knives, HMGs, Forge Guns, Flux Grenades, And even Made Drivers to some extent. Home at Last <3
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2315	Posted - 2015.01.19 23:14:00 - [34] - Quote Joel II X wrote: Heh... Heheh... MWAHAHAHAHAHA! YES!!! But splash should be the same, or only increased by 50 dmg and 1m MAX. If this is made true, though, the officer Plasma Cannon would be an instant I-Win Button if that Tank or whatever gets Wooton your preferred range. Wooton!!! I don't think it would be an I-win button. The HAV could still very much activate a hardener if the are an Armor tank, and survive up to three shots, even after the initial ambush shot. Depends on their reps, really. Alternatively, they could activate nitrous and have a good chance at escaping, and any of the HAVs could do this, not just armor ones. I font really think splash should be touched. Right now, its only capable of killing a lightly tanked scout suit, and that's fine. Any other suits require direct hits, and I'd like that to stay. I want it to become no more effective at AI than it already is, but still make it an extremely viable AV weapon when used in the right hands. Home at Last <3
J0LLY R0G3R And the ButtPirates 1833	Posted - 2015.01.19 23:30:00 - [35] - Quote Jakkal Shoobah wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: ''Plasma Cannons should do more DPS than Swarms'' [b] No they shouldnt. Reason is that PC hits infantry too while Swarms dont. This gives PC an innate advatage in usefulness over Swarms. First of all learn English ************ or go post with the damn japs and Latinos. Whoaaa we got a badass over here TLDR : Last Dust Montage
Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 5627	Posted - 2015.01.19 23:33:00 - [36] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Joel II X wrote: Heh... Heheh... MWAHAHAHAHAHA! YES!!! But splash should be the same, or only increased by 50 dmg and 1m MAX. If this is made true, though, the officer Plasma Cannon would be an instant I-Win Button if that Tank or whatever gets Wooton your preferred range. Wooton!!! I don't think it would be an I-win button. The HAV could still very much activate a hardener if the are an Armor tank, and survive up to three shots, even after the initial ambush shot. Depends on their reps, really. Alternatively, they could activate nitrous and have a good chance at escaping, and any of the HAVs could do this, not just armor ones. I font really think splash should be touched. Right now, its only capable of killing a lightly tanked scout suit, and that's fine. Any other suits require direct hits, and I'd like that to stay. I want it to become no more effective at AI than it already is, but still make it an extremely viable AV weapon when used in the right hands. Edited original post, then edited to add Wooton back. (It's supposed to say 'within') Anywho, you said add a whole ton of damage, and the current officer one can kill any tank - hardened or not - within 3 reloads. On a commando, the reload speed bonus itself is a great plus. I agree that it should reward players more to use a weapon that requires more skill, time, and points than it would to a fire-and-forget weapon.
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2315	Posted - 2015.01.19 23:42:00 - [37] - Quote Joel II X wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Joel II X wrote: Heh... Heheh... MWAHAHAHAHAHA! YES!!! But splash should be the same, or only increased by 50 dmg and 1m MAX. If this is made true, though, the officer Plasma Cannon would be an instant I-Win Button if that Tank or whatever gets Wooton your preferred range. Wooton!!! I don't think it would be an I-win button. The HAV could still very much activate a hardener if the are an Armor tank, and survive up to three shots, even after the initial ambush shot. Depends on their reps, really. Alternatively, they could activate nitrous and have a good chance at escaping, and any of the HAVs could do this, not just armor ones. I font really think splash should be touched. Right now, its only capable of killing a lightly tanked scout suit, and that's fine. Any other suits require direct hits, and I'd like that to stay. I want it to become no more effective at AI than it already is, but still make it an extremely viable AV weapon when used in the right hands. Edited original post, then edited to add Wooton back. (It's supposed to say 'within') Anywho, you said add a whole ton of damage, and the current officer one can kill any tank - hardened or not - within 3 reloads. On a commando, the reload speed bonus itself is a great plus. I agree that it should reward players more to use a weapon that requires more skill, time, and points than it would to a fire-and-forget weapon. The Officer Plasma Cannon would actually be an effective I-win button against HAVs, if you can land both shots, and so long as its not an armor tank with their hardener already active when you start firing. They would be pretty OP, but they are Officer weapons, which are meant to be OP, so not a big deal. And that last paragraph pretty much summarizes up this entire thread. Plasma Cannons would become potent AV weapons, no doubt, but only in skilled, patient and steady hands. You have to land both shots, as quickly as possible, or swarms TTK would be shorter. Home at Last <3
Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 267	Posted - 2015.01.19 23:43:00 - [38] - Quote Quick question, what do you think vehicles should do on the battlefield?
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2315	Posted - 2015.01.19 23:47:00 - [39] - Quote Juno Tristan wrote: Quick question, what do you think vehicles should do on the battlefield? Not be pissed off because they only getting killed by swarms because swarms are the only viable light AV. 1.)Transportation. That's pretty much the main purpose of a vehicle right there. Home at Last <3
Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 267	Posted - 2015.01.19 23:56:00 - [40] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Juno Tristan wrote: Quick question, what do you think vehicles should do on the battlefield? Not be pissed off because they only getting killed by swarms because swarms are the only viable light AV. 1.)Transportation. That's pretty much the main purpose of a vehicle right there. So first, why are you so determined to kill them if they're just transporting people? And second, why would anyone get in these death traps when you can easily run between objectives?

Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2316	Posted - 2015.01.20 00:00:00 - [41] - Quote Juno Tristan wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Juno Tristan wrote: Quick question, what do you think vehicles should do on the battlefield? Not be pissed off because they only getting killed by swarms because swarms are the only viable light AV. 1.)Transportation. That's pretty much the main purpose of a vehicle right there. So first, why are you so determined to kill them if they're just transporting people? And second, why would anyone get in these death traps when you can easily run between objectives? Well drop ships are the only way to reach many... strategic locations, on the battlefield. LAVs are still the fastest way to get from point to point, and when used with a group of three to make hacking runs, they are very good. Much better than three people on foot. As for HAVs, I pointed out their use in my edit above. Home at Last <3
Timtron Victory Horizons' Edge 280	Posted - 2015.01.20 00:04:00 - [42] - Quote Shield tankers are gonna be mad haha Dust Weekly Lottery Proud Christian Jesus Loves You
Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 267	Posted - 2015.01.20 00:10:00 - [43] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Juno Tristan wrote: Quick question, what do you think vehicles should do on the battlefield? Not be pissed off because they only getting killed by swarms because swarms are the only viable light AV. 1.)Transportation. That's pretty much the main purpose of a vehicle right there. But I'm sure you are talking about only HAVs when you say "vehicles"... In that case, 1.) Infantry Suppression, when used in conjunction with infantry. Their presence should cause non-AV infantry to generally take cover. They currently do this pretty well. Note: when I say suppression, I don't mean killing. HAVs should be able to kill infantry, but their role should not be to farm them. 2.) AV. Large Turrets would remain the best AV options, even with the proposed PLC changes. So they would still have this. 3.) Installation destruction. Sorta like AV, but only HAVs have sufficient ammo reserves to make a viable role out of this. *4.) Destruction of map assets. Not Installations. I'd like to see stuff like, walls, gates, explosive containers and doors added to the game. Stuff that only an HAV could destroy quickly. Stuff that would take multiple hits from AV, but an HAV would be much more suited for. Suppression suggests the ability to take more than a couple of shots
DUST Fiend Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 15596	Posted - 2015.01.20 00:14:00 - [44] - Quote Yea....no. PLC needs a buff but your suggestion is obnoxious lol. Also, swarm launchers do too much damage to armor, so making something do even MORE is not exactly the right way. My YouTube (currently inactive) Homeless Dropship Enthusiast "See You Space Cowboy"
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2318	Posted - 2015.01.20 00:16:00 - [45] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Yea....no. PLC needs a buff but your suggestion is obnoxious lol. Also, swarm launchers do too much damage to armor, so making something do even MORE is not exactly the right way. Its not more. The DPS is equal. Your Incubus would be able to take a hit. So don't worry. Also, this weapon takes much more skill, so it by all rights SHOULD do more than a SL. But its probably a good place to start with it doing equal DPS. Home at Last <3
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2318	Posted - 2015.01.20 00:18:00 - [46] - Quote Juno Tristan wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Juno Tristan wrote: Quick question, what do you think vehicles should do on the battlefield? Not be pissed off because they only getting killed by swarms because swarms are the only viable light AV. 1.)Transportation. That's pretty much the main purpose of a vehicle right there. But I'm sure you are talking about only HAVs when you say "vehicles"... In that case, 1.) Infantry Suppression, when used in conjunction with infantry. Their presence should cause non-AV infantry to generally take cover. They currently do this pretty well. Note: when I say suppression, I don't mean killing. HAVs should be able to kill infantry, but their role should not be to farm them. 2.) AV. Large Turrets would remain the best AV options, even with the proposed PLC changes. So they would still have this. 3.) Installation destruction. Sorta like AV, but only HAVs have sufficient ammo reserves to make a viable role out of this. *4.) Destruction of map assets. Not Installations. I'd like to see stuff like, walls, gates, explosive containers and doors added to the game. Stuff that only an HAV could destroy quickly. Stuff that would take multiple hits from AV, but an HAV would be much more suited for. Suppression suggests the ability to take more than a couple of shots You would, but not by Plasma Cannons. At least not if you don't harden. Hardening would allow you to take many more hits. High skill = high rewards. Basic game balance. Home at Last <3
LUGMOS Quafe Premium 1609	Posted - 2015.01.20 00:22:00 - [47] - Quote Well... as long as it doesn't kill Gunnlogis as easy as swarms eat Madrugars. And still, nerf the swarm, but only a little. Official QuafeGäó Advocate Anti-FoTM Prof. V Forum Scavenger Prof. V
Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 267	Posted - 2015.01.20 00:25:00 - [48] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Suppression suggests the ability to take more than a couple of shots You would, but not by Plasma Cannons. At least not if you don't harden. Hardening would allow you to take many more hits. High skill = high rewards. Basic game balance.[/quote] Suppression suggests staying in the same area, not dancing between PC shots
Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 267	Posted - 2015.01.20 00:26:00 - [49] - Quote Also, you are aware hardeners have a cooldown?
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2319	Posted - 2015.01.20 00:31:00 - [50] - Quote Juno Tristan wrote: Also, you are aware hardeners have a cooldown? Yes. But they also last a very long time, and mitigate a lot of damage. They are meant to provide windows of opportunity, in CCPs own words. They currently do that very well. Home at Last <3

JUDASisMYhomeboy xCosmic Voidx 283	Posted - 2015.01.20 00:38:00 - [51] - Quote Let me just take a moment to say how awesome the officer plasma cannon is. Holy crap i wish i had more of them than i do "In a world gone mad,only a lunatic is truly insane" Homer J Simpson
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2319	Posted - 2015.01.20 00:39:00 - [52] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: Well... as long as it doesn't kill Gunnlogis as easy as swarms eat Madrugars. And still, nerf the swarm, but only a little. It won't kill a Gunnlogi even as easy as Swarms kill a Gunnlogi. They take more skill, therefor they aren't as easy. Maybe. I think one of the main reasons swarms are perceived as OP is because they are the only Light AV that effectively kills vehicles. So naturally, they are use A LOT. Weapons that are used a lot more than their competition, but aren't necessarily OP, are often perceived to be OP. By buffing the Plasma Cannon to be as effective as a Swarm Launcher, there would likely be a migration of people from Swarms to Plasma Cannons, which would reduce the amount of Swarms. I know many people that use Swarms instead of Plasma Cannons because they have to, rather than want to. Plenty of people want to use PLCs, but have to settle for Swarms if they want to be effective. Home at Last <3
Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 267	Posted - 2015.01.20 00:43:00 - [53] - Quote This would not play out like you think it would, no 50m skill shots, what you would get is a cheap throwaway suit shooting you from point blank range and lobbing a few AV grenades
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2319	Posted - 2015.01.20 00:52:00 - [54] - Quote Juno Tristan wrote: This would not play out like you think it would, no 50m skill shots, what you would get is a cheap throwaway suit shooting you from point blank range and lobbing a few AV grenades In think it would play out exactly like I think it would. We would get a shield AV option just as viable as Swarms, which would help massively to alleviate the Shield/Armor imbalance that vehicles have currently, as well as make vehicles less frustrating by reducing the amount of Swarms. Even a PRO Plasma Cannon and 2 PRO AV nades wouldn't kill most HAVs. Even a Gunnlogi. That's hardly a throwaway suit. There will need to be 2 direct hits to kill an unhardened HAV. 1 hit for the critical spot, and that is a skill shot at pretty much any range more than 15m, and even then only if the target is still. If you stay moving, and activate a hardener when you want to stay still, your chances of getting OHKd are practically zero. That seems fair to me. A high skill playstyle to counter a high skill manouver. Home at Last <3
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16693	Posted - 2015.01.20 01:02:00 - [55] - Quote More importantly than this DPS crap why the hell have the gallente capitalised on this technology and build a massive Large Turret Anti Tank Gun using it? *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2319	Posted - 2015.01.20 01:04:00 - [56] - Quote True Adamance wrote: More importantly than this DPS crap why the hell have the gallente capitalised on this technology and build a massive Large Turret Anti Tank Gun using it? Who knows? A plasma cannon turret with more "turret-like" stats than a Plasma Cannon would be a wonderful addition. Home at Last <3
KING CHECKMATE Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 7080	Posted - 2015.01.20 01:06:00 - [57] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: The extra skill required to use a plasma cannon compared to swarms is enough to justify it being usable against infantry as well. It should at least have the same DPS. By your logic then the SCR rifle needs a significant BUFF. Since its the rifle that needs the most skill to use i mean... @ Jakkal Shoobah : Hows this for English. B10w m3 f4g . Playing as : Calscout + Amarr Assault
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16693	Posted - 2015.01.20 01:08:00 - [58] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: True Adamance wrote: More importantly than this DPS crap why the hell have the gallente capitalised on this technology and build a massive Large Turret Anti Tank Gun using it? Who knows? A plasma cannon turret with more "turret-like" stats than a Plasma Cannon would be a wonderful addition. Canister Shell or Tri Barreled Grape Shot? *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2319	Posted - 2015.01.20 01:09:00 - [59] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: The extra skill required to use a plasma cannon compared to swarms is enough to justify it being usable against infantry as well. It should at least have the same DPS. By your logic then the SCR rifle needs a significant BUFF. Since its the rifle that needs the most skill to use i mean... @ Jakkal Shoobah : Hows this for English. B10w m3 f4g . I think the ScR is fine. In skilled hands, it is the most lethal of the rifles. Besides TacARs, which I think are OP, due to them not requiring the "skilled hands" part. Home at Last <3
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2320	Posted - 2015.01.20 01:10:00 - [60] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: True Adamance wrote: More importantly than this DPS crap why the hell have the gallente capitalised on this technology and build a massive Large Turret Anti Tank Gun using it? Who knows? A plasma cannon turret with more "turret-like" stats than a Plasma Cannon would be a wonderful addition. Canister Shell or Tri Barreled Grape Shot? Giant shotguns sound fun and very Gallentean. I approve. Home at Last <3

KING CHECKMATE Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 7080	Posted - 2015.01.20 01:13:00 - [61] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: I think the ScR is fine. In skilled hands, it is the most lethal of the rifles. Besides TacARs, which I think are OP, due to them not requiring the "skilled hands" part. I hate it when people attack me with LOGIC while im trying to troll. Your win this time Fizzer... Again.Im not against a Buff fo PC. I just think that comparing it to the Swarm is pointless Since they are completely different weapons all together. The PC needs a buff because is a Skill based weapon with extremely low DPS for the Skill/CPU required to be used. Playing as : Calscout + Amarr Assault
Timtron Victory Horizons' Edge 282	Posted - 2015.01.20 01:25:00 - [62] - Quote I was hoping CCP would reduce TTK so that damage mods became useful again and battles last longer but there are still some asking for more damage. Maybe give Plasma Cannon a damage bonus against vehicles but thats about it. I played in a match were a dude or dudette was sniping with a plasma cannon, so NO WAY!! ISK Weekly Lottery Proud Christian Jesus Loves You
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2320	Posted - 2015.01.20 01:32:00 - [63] - Quote Timtron Victory wrote: I was hoping CCP would reduce TTK so that damage mods became useful again and battles last longer but there are still some asking for more damage. Maybe give Plasma Cannon a damage bonus against vehicles but thats about it. I played in a match were a dude or dudette was sniping with a plasma cannon, so NO WAY!! Reducing TTK would make damage mods less useful. Judging by the rest of your post, I'm going to assume you meant increase... If they were effectively sniping with a Plasma Cannon, good for them. That playstyle is the absolute hardest to do in the game. Period. Nothing else in this game is more difficult that getting 150m+ Cannon kills. If you have ever heard of a balancing concept in games called a power to skill ratio, you would realize that sniping with a Plasma Cannon is in no way a problem. Also, this buff would in no way affect the anti infantry capabilities of a Plasma Cannon, besides allowing it to kill brick tanked heavies in one hit, which it ought to do anyway. Home at Last <3
Racro 01 Arifistan Simple Minded People Pty. Ltd. 497	Posted - 2015.01.20 01:38:00 - [64] - Quote The plasma cannon is not meant to focus on dps. its focus's on alpha strikeing a target. or more simply damage per shot. the swarms on the other hand focus on mnore damage per second rather than per shot. although it has a high volley damage. the plasma cannonn is in a perfect place right now. as is. with profiecency 5 and 3 complex lightn damage mods is more than enough to drop an unhardered/no extra shielded gunnlogi to no shields and leave it vunrable to av grenades. WHY IN THE ** would anyone want to change a weapon that is perfectly fine and balanced.....is the the plasma cannons problem that it is balanced? the plasma cannon has no need for increased damge or reload. the plasma cannon does not focus on damage per second. it focus's on damage per shot. also theres a difference between on paper numbers and actual use. I find I can kill vehicles quicker with my PLC fit compared to my swarms simply because the PLC dosnt have to wait to lock on. has a nice reload time......and I like to pair it with a LAV (not a wheelchair that applys only to heavy use) and given that majority of vehicles used are caldari. the shield damge bonus makes it even more deadly. Elite Gallenten Soldier**
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2320	Posted - 2015.01.20 01:47:00 - [65] - Quote Racro 01 Arifistan wrote: The plasma cannon is not meant to focus on dps. its focus's on alpha strikeing a target. or more simply damage per shot. the swarms on the other hand focus on mnore damage per second rather than per shot. although it has a high volley damage. the plasma cannonn is in a perfect place right now. as is. with profiecency 5 and 3 complex lightn damage mods is more than enough to drop an unhardered/no extra shielded gunnlogi to no shields and leave it vunrable to av grenades. WHY IN THE ** would anyone want to change a weapon that is perfectly fine and balanced.....is the the plasma cannons problem that it is balanced? the plasma cannon has no need for increased damge or reload. the plasma cannon does not focus on damage per second. it focus's on damage per shot. also theres a difference between on paper numbers and actual use. I find I can kill vehicles quicker with my PLC fit compared to my swarms simply because the PLC dosnt have to wait to lock on. has a nice reload time......and I like to pair it with a LAV (not a wheelchair that applys only to heavy use) and given that majority of vehicles used are caldari. the shield damge bonus makes it even more deadly. I would buy your excuse if the Swarm Launched didn't do similar damage per round compared to the Plasma Cannon as well as having a 3 round magazine and seeking capabilities, while the Plasma Cannon has a projectile drop and a single round mag. So my TTK is effectively doubled, and I have to use more skill to get an extra 100-200 alpha damage on vehicles? Get real, **. This would be like adding a rifle that does 45 damage per shot but only fires at 200 rounds per minute and calling it balanced with the AR because it has "more alpha damage". ** off. Home at Last <3
Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 267	Posted - 2015.01.20 02:13:00 - [66] - Quote ^^ You can see why I thought he was joking at first
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2320	Posted - 2015.01.20 02:21:00 - [67] - Quote Juno Tristan wrote: ^^ You can see why I thought he was joking at first And I can see why you are afraid of having two light weapons able to kill you, rather than one. Its because youre a scrub. Anyone that thinks the SL should outDPS Plasma Cannons is by the very definition, a scrub. Home at Last <3
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16701	Posted - 2015.01.20 03:01:00 - [68] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Juno Tristan wrote: ^^ You can see why I thought he was joking at first And I can see why you are afraid of having two light weapons able to kill you, rather than one. Its because youre a scrub. Anyone that thinks the SL should outDPS Plasma Cannons is by the very definition, a scrub. This is equivocal to thinking shotguns should do less DPS than something like Mass Drivers. Its ******* stupid, and the only people that would think somethinglike that are the ones who would want to keep a status quo in place. The arguement X takes more skill than Y is not a good one when asking for a buff. Not saying I don't want a powerful rocket like AT gun but this functions exactly like the RPG/SMAW many other games it doesn't need to fire faster or have significantly more damage increases. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2320	Posted - 2015.01.20 03:31:00 - [69] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Juno Tristan wrote: ^^ You can see why I thought he was joking at first And I can see why you are afraid of having two light weapons able to kill you, rather than one. Its because youre a scrub. Anyone that thinks the SL should outDPS Plasma Cannons is by the very definition, a scrub. This is equivocal to thinking shotguns should do less DPS than something like Mass Drivers. Its ******* stupid, and the only people that would think somethinglike that are the ones who would want to keep a status quo in place. The arguement X takes more skill than Y is not a good one when asking for a buff. Not saying I don't want a powerful rocket like AT gun but this functions exactly like the RPG/SMAW many other games it doesn't need to fire faster or have significantly more damage increases. X takes more skill than Y is a perfectly good reason for X to be a more powerful weapon. That's like, basic game balance. But I'm not asking for it to be better, I'm just asking for it to be at least on par. Completely reasonable request. As for the RPG/SMAW thing... Let's say we're talking about Battlefield, since that is a similar game to Dust, somewhat. It's more akin to if the Stinger had a 3 round magazine that could kill a vehicle in 4 rounds, while the RPG-7 remained single fire and had a spool up time and lost most of its splash along with a slower projectile... but did 20% more damage per shot. So it can also still only kill in 4 rounds!! Woo!!! Of course the Stinger would be used ludicrously more. Its a better weapon, and anyone can see that. I'm just trying to buff the RPG so its just as worth using as the Stinger is. If that means the RPG has HEAT rounds that do 292% the damage of the Stinger's heat-seaking ones, then so be it. Home at Last <3
Vesta Opalus T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K General Tso's Alliance 309	Posted - 2015.01.20 03:37:00 - [70] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: I do find it hilarious that a lock on weapon that is really difficult to miss with massively outDPSes a weapon which takes a good deal of skill to aim and is very difficult to use at a quarter of the max range of said lock on weapon. Then again the PLC can be used to kill infantry, in style ;d

Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2321	Posted - 2015.01.20 05:06:00 - [71] - Quote As if the Swarm Launcher outDPSing the Plasma Cannon isn't enough... The HMG does as well. Yup. Its not even an AV weapon, and it is out DPSing an AV weapon. And some people say the Plasma Cannon is fine. The nerve. Home at Last <3
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1930	Posted - 2015.01.20 05:27:00 - [72] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: OP POST Agreed that, on paper at least, PLC should have more DPS than Swarms. Reasoning: First is moderately easy/difficult to hit on the first show, extremely difficult on follow-up shots. The Swarm is very easy from first to last shots. Also, there's free guidance. Personal experience: when tanking, I just lol at plasma cannons and their shots. The only advantage they have is their moderate alpha augmented by extra shield damage. So, I'm up for either: a) upping PLC DPS. OR b) making swarms less easy to hit. Oh and one more thing: I'm not into that OHKing tanks thing. Like I said. The OHKing would only happen if they shot you in the weak point, and if you don't have any hardeners active. Otherwise, any HAV with decent HP would take two shots to kill. So pretty much just fit 1 HP mod and 2 hardeners, and you'll be immune to the OHKs as long as you cycle the hardeners, and then Plasma Cannons would then take 3-5 shots to kill you while they are active. This way, the high skill vehicle playstyle, which is cycling hardeners, would be the direct counter to the high skill AV playstyle which is Plasma Cannons. There's a few problems with your thinking here and most of it is that you think a tank should take two shots to kill. You seem to be very biased towards the AV side of things. You get to pick up tanks on passive radar from 50m away, you get first mover advantage, its hard to tell where you're being hit from in a vehicle.... and you also think that you should be entitled to kill vehicles in 2 shots if their mods aren't on? We go straight back to pre 1.7 when tanks were coffins... except now they also have the 'added benefit' of being warpoint pi+¦atas for AV. What are tanks supposed to be able to do back to you? Hmm? They don't have guns that can reliably hit you, or you cry about that, they don't have splash damage on any of their weapons anymore. What is the opposite end of the spectrum? Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Pseudogenesis Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1331	Posted - 2015.01.20 05:37:00 - [73] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: ''Plasma Cannons should do more DPS than Swarms'' No they shouldnt. Reason is that PC hits infantry too while Swarms dont. This gives PC an innate advatage in usefulness over Swarms. Of course, i wouldnt mind the PC getting buffed at all, just saying why the above statement is incorrect. Wouldnt mind getting dumb fire for swarms either. This guy's right. It's always tempting to compare 2 things in a vacuum when it comes to game design, but you have to take all factors into account before making a judgement on balance. That being said, I do agree that the PLC needs a little bit of love when it comes to AV. (Or maybe they just need to make the damn explosion radius consistent against infantry) Stabby-stabber extraordinaire Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉn¦ñ I stabbed Rattati once, you know.
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2324	Posted - 2015.01.20 05:53:00 - [74] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: OP POST Agreed that, on paper at least, PLC should have more DPS than Swarms. Reasoning: First is moderately easy/difficult to hit on the first show, extremely difficult on follow-up shots. The Swarm is very easy from first to last shots. Also, there's free guidance. Personal experience: when tanking, I just lol at plasma cannons and their shots. The only advantage they have is their moderate alpha augmented by extra shield damage. So, I'm up for either: a) upping PLC DPS. OR b) making swarms less easy to hit. Oh and one more thing: I'm not into that OHKing tanks thing. Like I said. The OHKing would only happen if they shot you in the weak point, and if you don't have any hardeners active. Otherwise, any HAV with decent HP would take two shots to kill. So pretty much just fit 1 HP mod and 2 hardeners, and you'll be immune to the OHKs as long as you cycle the hardeners, and then Plasma Cannons would then take 3-5 shots to kill you while they are active. This way, the high skill vehicle playstyle, which is cycling hardeners, would be the direct counter to the high skill AV playstyle which is Plasma Cannons. There's a few problems with your thinking here and most of it is that you think a tank should take two shots to kill. You seem to be very biased towards the AV side of things. You get to pick up tanks on passive radar from 50m away, you get first mover advantage, its hard to tell where you're being hit from in a vehicle.... and you also think that you should be entitled to kill vehicles in 2 shots if their mods aren't on? We go straight back to pre 1.7 when tanks were coffins... except now they also have the 'added benefit' of being warpoint pi+¦atas for AV. What are tanks supposed to be able to do back to you? Hmm? They don't have guns that can reliably hit you, or you cry about that, they don't have splash damage on any of their weapons anymore. What is the opposite end of the spectrum? I seem biased towards AV? No. I'm biased towards Plasma Cannons not being **. I'm sorry that you think nothing should kill you, much less some mere infantry, but too bad so sad. You should be just a capable of death as any infantry player. TTK for Plasma Cannons would only be slightly shorter than the TTK for swarms, and only at the highest levels. TTK is what matters, not the amount of shots. If a weapon does 200 damage per shot but fires 240 rounds per minute it would kill just as fast, but take many more hits. So the "2 shots being too quick" argument is ****. First mover advantage. This is true, but just like a scout vs a heavy, the HAV has ample time to react. An HAV would still have a minimum of 2.2 seconds to begin reacting, with pretty much any reaction resulting in survival. Compare that to the 0.6s reaction time I get when a shotgun hits me and this complaint seems goddamned silly. That's a minimum of 2.2 seconds. Your much more likely to get a full 4-5 seconds of grace in reality. What are tanks supposed to to? Run, or fight, just like literally everyone else in this game, not the "just sit there in one place and farm infantry" playstyle they want. Hell, as long as they stop just *** ignoring me because my weapon sucks I'd be happy! They certainly don't seem to ignore swarms if all the QQ posts about them are any indication, so I figure its a good idea to bring Plasma Cannons up to that level. And there are splash weapons for them. Heard of missiles? They make more than decent anti infantry weapons if used correctly. Blasters aren't the infantry grinders they used to be with their half second TTK and pinpoint accuracy?! Your instablap cannon has dispersion now?! Too ***** bad. They deserved to get nerfed as hard as they did. Home at Last <3
Kierkegaard Soren Eridani Light Horse Striker 654	Posted - 2015.01.20 06:00:00 - [75] - Quote Sensible suggestion from a long-time PLC user: bump up the STD to do the damage of an ADV, the ADV to do the damage of a PRO, and the PRO buffed to base damage of 1750. The flaw in Fizzer's argument, from my perspective, is that we're trying to balance its power around its required skill level to use. Thing is, we're forgetting about its intended range in doing so; it's actually a CQC tank killer, and whilst long range kills are achievable (and immensely satisfying) they're difficult because you're trying to push the weapon to perform way, way out of its comfort zone. We shouldn't balance the weapon around that aspect of its performance. Hitting tanks sub-50 meters isn't that hard to do once you've got the hang of how the shots fly and drop, unless that vehicle is an LAV at speed, in which case fair play I say; speed is there tank, effectively. It's geat advantage over the swarm launcher is that in urban environments the plc can fire quickly from cover and then hide whilst reloading, forcing a tank to either chance it's luck in trying to kill the plc user when he pops back out from cover or to gtfo. A swarm launcher has to establish the lock and then release the volley, a process that leaves them very vulnerable when the tank is effectively in thier face already. Furthermore, swarms will fly into buildings when tracking a moving vehicle, making them fiddly to use in urban environments. Essentially, the swarm excels in long-range vehicle interdiction when there are few obstacles in the way of its flight path, and the plc conversely shines when the opposite conditions prevale. Yes, the plc needs a damage buff, because landing successive shots on HAV can be very difficult, so rewarding me for doing that Is great, but it really only needs a few hundred damage more per tier, otherwise it's going to get silly. Anyway, thanks for putting this out there Fizzer. Dedicated Commando. CEO of Eridani Light Horse Strikers. "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing."
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2324	Posted - 2015.01.20 06:12:00 - [76] - Quote While I will say that swarms might be slightly OP, I refuse to see them nerfed as they are the only usable AV option for 3/4 of players at the time. They are the only Light AV that works without stupid amounts of skill and/or luck required to get a vehicle kill. Do you know how insanely difficult it is to land 4-5 direct hits on a HAV, vehicle guys? It typically takes over 16-20s of perfect shooting to pull off. You can't miss at all, and you have to be firing as fast as possible. As much as you guys whine about how skilless Swarms seem to you, you have no idea how easymode vehicles seem to a Cannoneer. I'd rather have 1 skilless weapon out 2 that works than 2 useless weapons. Home at Last <3
jace silencerww D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 117	Posted - 2015.01.20 06:16:00 - [77] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: GÇóA Swarm Luncher outputs 1040-1248 damage every 1.4 seconds without factoring any Damage multipliers, just base damage. That's a total of 742-891 DPS, depending on tier. Currently, Plasma Cannons do 1150-1501.5 damage every 4.1 seconds, without factoring in any Damage multipliers. That's only 280 DPS at the Standard tier, and still only 366.21 DPS at Prototype. A PRO Plasma Cannon deals less than half the DPS a Standard Swarm Launcher does. That's messed up. Even if we max out every reload and charge time skill, and increase the damage as much as we can with a Gallente Commando and Damage mods... We still only get 696.63 DPS. Still less than a Standard Swarm Launcher on any suit. This is rediculous. So let's increase Plasma Cannons to Swarm levels of DPS. At the base level. Without any modifiers accounted for. 1.) Buff Damage. By a ***** lot. An Allotek Plasma Cannon should outDPS a PRO Swarm launcher, without having to factor in any other multipliers. It just should. Period. At the very least, it should do the same DPS. With this in mind, an Allotek Plasma Cannon should deal 3653.1 direct damage. That would puts its DPS on par with a Wyrikiomi SL. So... Standard PLC: 3042.2 Damage Advanced PLC: 3347.65 Damage Allotek PLC: 3653.1 Damage This would mean that an Plasma Cannon would OHK or 2-shot ANY** vehicles. Any tank would just die if they get shot in the rear, unless they have any hardeners active. Otherwise they would take 2 hits. ADSes would always instapop. As they should. Hitting those things is still hard. Standard DSs would be able to take 2 hits if they fit a bit of tank. LAVs too. Hitting them is the hardest, unless they are parked. They would always be OHK. And you know what? Thats completely reasonable... NO... look at the vehicles shields normally have lower ehp than armor. the PC was made for killing shields vehicles. the swarms were made for armor. plus what others people have said PC can shoot at infantry.
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2324	Posted - 2015.01.20 06:22:00 - [78] - Quote jace silencerww wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: GÇóA Swarm Luncher outputs 1040-1248 damage every 1.4 seconds without factoring any Damage multipliers, just base damage. That's a total of 742-891 DPS, depending on tier. Currently, Plasma Cannons do 1150-1501.5 damage every 4.1 seconds, without factoring in any Damage multipliers. That's only 280 DPS at the Standard tier, and still only 366.21 DPS at Prototype. A PRO Plasma Cannon deals less than half the DPS a Standard Swarm Launcher does. That's messed up. Even if we max out every reload and charge time skill, and increase the damage as much as we can with a Gallente Commando and Damage mods... We still only get 696.63 DPS. Still less than a Standard Swarm Launcher on any suit. This is rediculous. So let's increase Plasma Cannons to Swarm levels of DPS. At the base level. Without any modifiers accounted for. 1.) Buff Damage. By a ***** lot. An Allotek Plasma Cannon should outDPS a PRO Swarm launcher, without having to factor in any other multipliers. It just should. Period. At the very least, it should do the same DPS. With this in mind, an Allotek Plasma Cannon should deal 3653.1 direct damage. That would puts its DPS on par with a Wyrikiomi SL. So... Standard PLC: 3042.2 Damage Advanced PLC: 3347.65 Damage Allotek PLC: 3653.1 Damage This would mean that an Plasma Cannon would OHK or 2-shot ANY** vehicles. Any tank would just die if they get shot in the rear, unless they have any hardeners active. Otherwise they would take 2 hits. ADSes would always instapop. As they should. Hitting those things is still hard. Standard DSs would be able to take 2 hits if they fit a bit of tank. LAVs too. Hitting them is the hardest, unless they are parked. They would always be OHK. And you know what? Thats completely reasonable... NO... look at the vehicles shields normally have lower ehp than armor. the PC was made for killing shields vehicles. the swarms were made for armor. plus what others people have said PC can shoot at infantry. Swarms kill Shield Vehicles faster than Plasma Cannons. Your argument is invalid. If Plasma Cannons are supposed to be better for killing Shield Vehicles than Swarms, shouldn't they do more DPS to shield vehicles than them, not less? Home at Last <3
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1930	Posted - 2015.01.20 06:31:00 - [79] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: #1I seem biased towards AV? No. I'm biased towards Plasma Cannons not being **. I'm sorry that you think nothing should kill you, much less some mere infantry, but too bad so sad. You should be just a capable of death as any infantry player. #2TTK for Plasma Cannons would only be slightly shorter than the TTK for swarms, and only at the highest levels. TTK is what matters, not the amount of shots. If a weapon does 200 damage per shot but fires 240 rounds per minute it would kill just as fast, but take many more hits. So the "2 shots being too quick" argument is ****. #3First mover advantage. This is true, but just like a scout vs a heavy, the HAV has ample time to react. An HAV would still have a minimum of 2.2 seconds to begin reacting, with pretty much any reaction resulting in survival. Compare that to the 0.6s reaction time I get when a shotgun hits me and this complaint seems goddamned silly. That's a minimum of 2.2 seconds. Your much more likely to get a full 4-5 seconds of grace in reality. #4What are tanks supposed to to? Run, or fight, just like literally everyone else in this game, not the "just sit there in one place and farm infantry" playstyle they want. Hell, as long as they stop just *** ignoring me because my weapon sucks I'd be happy! They certainly don't seem to ignore swarms if all the QQ posts about them are any indication, so I figure its a good idea to bring Plasma Cannons up to that level. #5And there are splash weapons for them. Heard of missiles? They make more than decent anti infantry weapons if used correctly. Blasters aren't the infantry grinders they used to be with their half second TTK and pinpoint accuracy?! Your instablap cannon has dispersion now?! Too *** bad. They deserved to get nerfed as hard as they did. 1) Plasma cannon isn't crap if anything the swarm launcher is overperforming relative to its ease of use. Unlike the swarm launcher it can also shoot at infantry. I also love how you're placing 'me' personally in the argument as a vehicle user or as the strawman of 'someone who wants to be invincible' so its easier to try and write off my opinion via logical fallacies and ad hominem. 2) Oneshot (aka alpha strike) weapons have significantly lower 'time to kill' than Damage over time weapons, even if their 'dps' is the same. Lets run an example - one weapon does 10000 damage every 10 seconds, versus another weapon that does 1000 damage every second. In theory their 'dps' is the same, in practicality the first weapon blows up someone who wasn't aware of them every 10 seconds and the 'time to kill' is really a fraction of a second. So no, your argument that 'their time to kill is the same' is wrong. We have seen this before with triple damage modded 80gj particle cannons that could shoot 600m they killed other vehicles with impunity before people even knew what they were taking fire from. 3) When you combine first mover advantage with insanely frontloaded dps you end up with the original cloak and shotgun problem... except now you've just directed it at vehicles who already suffered from being at a massive disadvantage in the first mover scenario. You have said outright that your model will have the potential to kill tanks in one shot - this is in zero way balanced or even remotely fair. 4) Its not a 'stop ignoring me cause my weapon sucks' It's a 'don't ever bring vehicles out because my weapon instantly kills them all'. You're making the fallacy of false equivalence with swarms - they are overperforming in a great deal of situations they should be toned down somewhat, not have every AV weapon buffed to equivalence. 5) Large Missiles have a splash radius smaller than a standard flaylock pistol, they are in no way a reliable weapon versus infantry, or are you trying to say that every vehicle should also have small missiles mounted to it too? Stop placing me in the argument and using ad hominem against me, you are doing nothing to actually justify your position. Your idea about plasma cannons is poorly thought out, has mile wide holes in its balance and based on your posting history you seem to think that you should always kill every vehicle forever with zero chance for them to do anything. Why do you think you should be able to kill vehicles when based on your position, vehicles shouldn't even be a threat to you with their large turrets? Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.** I have a few alts.
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2325	Posted - 2015.01.20 07:30:00 - [80] - Quote Lets look at V/AV balance in a game that works and compare it to this situation as best we can. RPG-7V2s in Battlefield 3 vs HAVs. An RPG will disable an HAV in 3 direct hits, and destroy one in 4. 2 hits if they hit the critical point on the back. That's all there is to it. 3-4 hits generally, depending on the vehicle HP before engagement. As such, I think it is more than reasonable for Plasma Cannons to destroy vehicles in 2-3 hits, depending on how quickly and appropriately the vehicle user can react, or if they react at all. Why 2-3 rather than 3-4 like Battlefield? GÇóPlasma Cannons are difficult to use even compared to the RPGs in other games, including the ones in BF3. They have a spool up time, slower projectiles, and much less splash elements than dumb fire rockets in other games. They also cannot be used with an Assault Rifle like they can in BF, without using a Commando. All in all, Plasma Cannons in Dust are worse than the RPGs you would find in other games. GÇóHAVs in Dust are relatively easy to use compared to the HAVs found in other games, like Battlefield. They move faster, are much less susceptible to attacks from aerial vehicles/other ground vehicles, and regenerate their HP without the need to get out and repair manually. They also have powerful active modules that provide great boons to their users. While a smoke screen will defend an HAV in Battlefield from 1-2 hits as long as the vehicle doesn't move, an activated hardener will allow the vehicle to just soak up 1-2 more hits, while staying on the move. All in all, vehicles are better in Dust than you would find in other games. So I feel completely justified in thinking and saying that Plasma Cannons should kill HAVs in 2-3 shots. Deal with it. Home at Last <3

MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1930	Posted - 2015.01.20 07:50:00 - [81] - Quote ^You may feel justified, but that doesn't make it correct or balanced. Dust is not other games. Vehicles are not temporary powerups here, they are roles with hefty isk & sp costs that can have incredibly deep investment to the exclusion of other things. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 267	Posted - 2015.01.20 08:05:00 - [82] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Battlefield 3 how many shots does it take to kill infantry in BF3? Also, would you mind sharing your AV fit and skills?
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6620	Posted - 2015.01.20 09:58:00 - [83] - Quote Swarm DPS is higher than the HMG Also, found the logi tourist! Please cry directly into the bucket. -Ripley Riley
shaman oga Dead Man's Game 3731	Posted - 2015.01.20 10:55:00 - [84] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: So... Standard PLC: 3042.2 Damage Advanced PLC: 3347.65 Damage Allotek PLC: 3653.1 Damage Seems legit.... in Unreal Tournament Situational awareness also known as passive scan. Minmatar omni-merc
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood RISE of LEGION 40	Posted - 2015.01.20 11:12:00 - [85] - Quote If the plc gets a buff don't go over 250 damage. It's the only AV weapon that is ACTUALLY fun to use. It also proves that AV is more effective with teamwork rather than solo'ing. I've solo'd tanks with the cannon but not as easily as swarms can solo anything. In all honesty, if you want to buff the cann: bring swarms down a touch + 100 to 250 buff to the cann. Now imagine using the allotek with 1751 damage. And dedicated PLC people prof it up. 1751 * [ 1.10 (shield bonus) + prof 5] 2206.26 damage! That's enough! More than enough. Imagine after a BASIC mod or gal commando that's already a crazy amount of damage going down range. 3000 damage * 1.26 = 3780. This is insane amount of damage and it isn't what you proposed. This is far too much damage. Most shield tanks are < 4k shp. 2/3 shot AV should never exist. Ever. Now for some bizarre reason the cann is 1.26 stronger at prof 5; not 1.25. Tanks don't run from a cannon so quickly, they stay and fight for a bit. The day 1 shot from the cannon makes vehicles hide in fear like the swarm will be the day I quit dust. (It's early morning so I'm all over in my points sorry) In other words, the cannon is the av people respect the most. Don't soil it by allowing it to do 2500+ damage. Don't compare it to swarms because that's dishonoring the plasma cann. Thanks for reading. Entering the void and becoming wind with my repbus.
Radar R4D-47 0uter.Heaven 818	Posted - 2015.01.20 12:30:00 - [86] - Quote Shamarskii Simon wrote: If the plc gets a buff don't go over 250 damage. It's the only AV weapon that is ACTUALLY fun to use. It also proves that AV is more effective with teamwork rather than solo'ing. I've solo'd tanks with the cannon but not as easily as swarms can solo anything. In all honesty, if you want to buff the cann: bring swarms down a touch + 100 to 250 buff to the cann. Now imagine using the allotek with 1751 damage. And dedicated PLC people prof it up. 1751 * [ 1.10 (shield bonus) + prof 5] 2206.26 damage! That's enough! More than enough. Imagine after a BASIC mod or gal commando that's already a crazy amount of damage going down range. 3000 damage * 1.26 = 3780. This is insane amount of damage and it isn't what you proposed. This is far too much damage. Most shield tanks are < 4k shp. 2/3 shot AV should never exist. Ever. Now for some bizarre reason the cann is 1.26 stronger at prof 5; not 1.25. Tanks don't run from a cannon so quickly, they stay and fight for a bit. The day 1 shot from the cannon makes vehicles hide in fear like the swarm will be the day I quit dust. (It's early morning so I'm all over in my points sorry) In other words, the cannon is the av people respect the most. Don't soil it by allowing it to do 2500+ damage. Don't compare it to swarms because that's dishonoring the plasma cann. Thanks for reading. The moment i read the OP i was going to post these exact same statements but decided to see if someone out there already put this guy in his place. I used to fly dropships in chrome and early uprising and The FG used to be able to one shot a well fitted dropship. 1 million isk and a sp investment of 4mil rendered completely useless by a 900k sp 100k isk suit completely and utterly imbalanced. This idealism by AV to render vehicles unable to fight back is a joke. it wasn't until hardeners could actively negate a ridiculous amount of damage that vehicles even stood a chance against Forge Guns. So why would we want to revert back to the unbalanced ways of old? Direct Damage Buff. Yes! 200%? Not a chance! Stop bringing up Battlefield 3 AV as that games gunplay is nothing compared to dust.
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3620	Posted - 2015.01.20 13:08:00 - [87] - Quote 3000 -> 3500 might be overdoing it a tad, while I agree that the PLC should be more powerful than Swarms, this is a little to much. Try 2500 -> 3000 direct damage, unlike the Swarms the travel time (in it's optimal range) is minimal, concessions need to be given for this. HAV's should NEVER be OHK, even with a hit on the weak spot, to be honest dropships need a complete shake up, but PLC's should not viable against them, adding a greater deceleration penalty (the slug slows down, and curves faster) for angles greater than 60% could be the ticket. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
TheSneakyDolphin DROPSHIP ONE OPERATIONS 4	Posted - 2015.01.20 14:52:00 - [88] - Quote I sleep with my Plasma Cannon. It keeps me warm at night:) SQUEAK! SQUEAK!
Atiim Titans of Phoenix 15142	Posted - 2015.01.20 15:06:00 - [89] - Quote The butthurto meter in this thread is off the charts, but you do raise a valid point. The Range to DPS ratio on PLCs is broken, and as such the PLC will need a damage increase to compensate. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
taxi bastard Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 333	Posted - 2015.01.20 15:19:00 - [90] - Quote the issue with the PC having more DPS than swarms IMO is that its a dual use weapon. PC is handy against infantry 1 shooting them or doing damage with the splash. the swarms have but one use i would put them at similar damage

Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 549	Posted - 2015.01.20 15:27:00 - [91] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: GÇóA Swarm Luncher outputs 1040-1248 damage every 1.4 seconds without factoring any Damage multipliers, just base damage. That's a total of 742-891 DPS, depending on tier. Currently, Plasma Cannons do 1150-1501.5 damage every 4.1 seconds, without factoring in any Damage multipliers. That's only 280 DPS at the Standard tier, and still only 366.21 DPS at Prototype. A PRO Plasma Cannon deals less than half the DPS a Standard Swarm Launcher does. That's messed up. Even if we max out every reload and charge time skill, and increase the damage as much as we can with a Gallente Commando and Damage mods... We still only get 696.63 DPS. Still less than a Standard Swarm Launcher on any suit. This is rediculous. So let's increase Plasma Cannons to Swarm levels of DPS. At the base level. Without any modifiers accounted for. 1.) Buff Damage. By a ***** lot. An Allotek Plasma Cannon should outDPS a PRO Swarm launcher, without having to factor in any other multipliers. It just should. Period. At the very least, it should do the same DPS. With this in mind, an Allotek Plasma Cannon should deal 3653.1 direct damage. That would puts its DPS on par with a Wyrikiomi SL. So... Standard PLC: 3042.2 Damage Advanced PLC: 3347.65 Damage Allotek PLC: 3653.1 Damage This would mean that an Plasma Cannon would OHK or 2-shot ANY** vehicles. Any tank would just die if they get shot in the rear, unless they have any hardeners active. Otherwise they would take 2 hits. ADSes would always instapop. As they should. Hitting those things is still hard. Standard DSs would be able to take 2 hits if they fit a bit of tank. LAVs too. Hitting them is the hardest, unless they are parked. They would always be OHK. And you know what? Thats completely reasonable... 1. Over 3000damage? That is more than a Breach FG, more than any of the FG and also more than any of the vehicle turrets which fire one round - Not reasonable 2. More like Basic - 1500, Adv - 1750, Proto - 2000 but then again i want 500splash damage and a 5m radius for my large missiles so i can kill infantry because its a 6ft missile 3. I can OHK a HAV with a breach FG to the weakspot already
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2329	Posted - 2015.01.20 17:57:00 - [92] - Quote Since apparently nobody wants to be 2-3 shot by Plasma Cannons, what do you vehicle guys think would be an acceptable amount of shots to take down vehicles? Home at Last <3
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2329	Posted - 2015.01.20 18:35:00 - [93] - Quote One of the things that tankers always *** about is how the Swarms should be able to kill them so fast because its a relatively skilless weapon. But yet I propose a weapon that kills them just as fast, but requires actual skill, and they still *** and moan because it would kill them quickly. Seems to me that tankers just don't want to die fast, or more accurately, not at all. Home at Last <3
Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 561	Posted - 2015.01.20 18:44:00 - [94] - Quote 1. You propose nothing except a super beefed weapon which 2 shots everything if not OHK outright, even vehicles do not OHK outright unless a missile vs a maddy which frankly needs a buff anyways 2. Pilots want vehicle battles not twitch battles like now which are no fun so of course a OHK AV weapon isnt going to be any fun because most AV weapons currently require less SP and ISK than it takes to run a decent vehicle which wont get blown away by AV so then what is point of vehicles if AV can OHK them? 3. Why is it that AV always thinks that they should be the ones to outright kill vehicles and not the vehicles themselves? if infantry does it better then why do we need vehicles?
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2329	Posted - 2015.01.20 18:58:00 - [95] - Quote Lazer Fo Cused wrote: 1. You propose nothing except a super beefed weapon which 2 shots everything if not OHK outright, even vehicles do not OHK outright unless a missile vs a maddy which frankly needs a buff anyways 2. Pilots want vehicle battles not twitch battles like now which are no fun so of course a OHK AV weapon isnt going to be any fun because most AV weapons currently require less SP and ISK than it takes to run a decent vehicle which wont get blown away by AV so then what is point of vehicles if AV can OHK them? 3. Why is it that AV always thinks that they should be the ones to outright kill vehicles and not the vehicles themselves? if infantry does it better then why do we need vehicles? 1.) It would only 1 hit kill on an unhardened critical shot vs lightly tanked Militia HAV and Militia LAVs. Pretty much everything else would take 2 kits, minimum. Minimum. For any HAV, the 2HKs would only happen if the pilot takes no reactionary or preactionary measures at all. Basically, an unpiloted HAV sitting still will die in 2 hits. That seems reasonable. 2.) So you want TTKs so long that you have the time and speed to simply opt out of any situation that doesn't suit your fancy? You want to be practically immune to ambushes? And a STARTER suit can kill a full Protobear. ISK price and SP should provide advantages, not immunity to anything less than them. 3.) Maybe because it is called AV or Anti-Vehicle, which, you know, strongly implies that it might be purposed to destroy vehicles. Why do HAVs think they should be able to kill infantry without infantry being able to kill them? If tanks arethat powerful, why use infantry at all? Home at Last <3
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2801	Posted - 2015.01.20 19:00:00 - [96] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Since apparently nobody wants to be 2-3 shot by Plasma Cannons, what do you vehicle guys think would be an acceptable amount of shots to take down vehicles? AV should be a deterrent, not the nuclear, rods from god or asteroid option. Remember, every shot takes about 3.5-4 seconds, after the first, which takes about half a second. For which weapon are you talking about? At level 5, swarms take 1.05 seconds to lock on. Assault forge charges in about 2.5 seconds, I don't know what the plasma charges at at level 5, I've never had it to 5. Breach is about 5.3 seconds or so. The weapon should not be balanced around Galmandos, because then the weapon would only be useful on Galmandos. It needs to be balanced for every suit, with the Galmando being the best at it. Then all infantry weapons should be balanced around their suit, because I laugh seeing a Gal assault using a rail rifle. Still too long. Of course you think it's too long. Maybe we should just remove vehicles altogether, since you want them all to be so weak. Maybe we should give the Madrugar 2000 HP total, 1500 armor and 500 shield. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2329	Posted - 2015.01.20 19:10:00 - [97] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Since apparently nobody wants to be 2-3 shot by Plasma Cannons, what do you vehicle guys think would be an acceptable amount of shots to take down vehicles? AV should be a deterrent, not the nuclear, rods from god or asteroid option. Then vehicles should be merely a deterrant to infantry as well. Unable to actually kill any infantry without planning and teamwork. It should take at least 2 HAVs or ADSs to kill me. Anything less should just slightly damage me and cause me to run away for a few seconds before coming back. Remember, every shot takes about 3.5-4 seconds, after the first, which takes about half a second. For which weapon are you talking about? At level 5, swarms take 1.05 seconds to lock on. Assault forge charges in about 2.5 seconds, I don't know what the plasma charges at at level 5, I've never had it to 5. Breach is about 5.3 seconds or so. I'm talking about Plasma Cannons, obviously. Hence the name of the thread and the majority of its content topic. The weapon should not be balanced around Galmandos, because then the weapon would only be useful on Galmandos. It needs to be balanced for every suit, with the Galmando being the best at it. Then all infantry weapons should be balanced around their suit, because I laugh seeing a Gal assault using a rail rifle. Did you not read what I said. I said weapons should not be balanced around a specific suit. They should be usable on any suit, with some suits gaining bonuses to certain weapons or weapon types. Still too long. Of course you think it's too long. Maybe we should just remove vehicles altogether, since you want them all to be so weak. Maybe we should give the Madrugar 2000 HP total, 1500 armor and 500 shield. If you don't think 8-11 second isnt too long... for a Maxed out Plasma Cannon against a Militia HAV... then you are just further proving that you want the 1.7 murderwagons back. You want infantry to be unable to harm you while you farm infantry, and that doesn't make for good interplay. If you want to be able to kill, you need to accept that you can be killed just as easily. That's simple FPS balance. Home at Last <3
Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 565	Posted - 2015.01.20 19:10:00 - [98] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Lazer Fo Cused wrote: 1. You propose nothing except a super beefed weapon which 2 shots everything if not OHK outright, even vehicles do not OHK outright unless a missile vs a maddy which frankly needs a buff anyways 2. Pilots want vehicle battles not twitch battles like now which are no fun so of course a OHK AV weapon isnt going to be any fun because most AV weapons currently require less SP and ISK than it takes to run a decent vehicle which wont get blown away by AV so then what is point of vehicles if AV can OHK them? 3. Why is it that AV always thinks that they should be the ones to outright kill vehicles and not the vehicles themselves? if infantry does it better then why do we need vehicles? 1.) It would only 1 hit kill on an unhardened critical shot vs lightly tanked Militia HAV and Militia LAVs. Pretty much everything else would take 2 kits, minimum. Minimum. For any HAV, the 2HKs would only happen if the pilot takes no reactionary or preactionary measures at all. Basically, an unpiloted HAV sitting still will die in 2 hits. That seems reasonable. 2.) So you want TTKs so long that you have the time and speed to simply opt out of any situation that doesn't suit your fancy? You want to be practically immune to ambushes? And a STARTER suit can kill a full Protobear. ISK price and SP should provide advantages, not immunity to anything less than them. 3.) Maybe because it is called AV or Anti-Vehicle, which, you know, strongly implies that it might be purposed to destroy vehicles. Why do HAVs think they should be able to kill infantry without infantry being able to kill them? If tanks arethat powerful, why use infantry at all? 1. 2HK is boring, i cant even kill infantry with blaster anymore because people like you complained about our ability to aim, a sentinal can dance in front of a blaster and survive and most likely kill the vehicle before we kill you because its luck not aim - So why should you be able to 2HK vehicles but we cant kill you? 2. Uprising vehicles battles were fun, pilots enjoyed them and we had alot of top tier pilots now tell me where are they now? i can tell you they have left, they do not enjoy piloting anymore since it got dumbed down and ripped apart - FG in uprising didnt have a problem killing vehicles 2a. Ambushes? My large missiles cannot even kill a scout with spalsh anymore and your complaining about ambushes when me with a 6ft missile gets basically 0 splash on any infantry and they can ignore me at will unless i manage to get a direct hit 2b. SP did give advanatges, it gave me a purpose and i could skill 30mil SP into vehicles and still not be done - Now im at 17mil maybe 20mil and cant even do half of what i was able to do in Uprising 3. HAVs cannot kill infantry 3a. Large missiles could - they got nerfed 3b. Large and small blaster could - they got nerfed 3c. Small rails can - Currently infantry is crying that it should be an anti vehicle weapon so i wont be suprised if that gets nerfed 3d. Vehicles cannot hack objectives - Could destroy null cannons in 1.0 but its gone
Ld Collins Titans of Phoenix VP Gaming Alliance 187	Posted - 2015.01.20 19:17:00 - [99] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: GÇóA Swarm Luncher outputs 1040-1248 damage every 1.4 seconds without factoring any Damage multipliers, just base damage. That's a total of 742-891 DPS, depending on tier. Currently, Plasma Cannons do 1150-1501.5 damage every 4.1 seconds, without factoring in any Damage multipliers. That's only 280 DPS at the Standard tier, and still only 366.21 DPS at Prototype. A PRO Plasma Cannon deals less than half the DPS a Standard Swarm Launcher does. That's messed up. Even if we max out every reload and charge time skill, and increase the damage as much as we can with a Gallente Commando and Damage mods... We still only get 696.63 DPS. Still less than a Standard Swarm Launcher on any suit. This is rediculous. So let's increase Plasma Cannons to Swarm levels of DPS. At the base level. Without any modifiers accounted for. 1.) Buff Damage. By a ***** lot. An Allotek Plasma Cannon should outDPS a PRO Swarm launcher, without having to factor in any other multipliers. It just should. Period. At the very least, it should do the same DPS. With this in mind, an Allotek Plasma Cannon should deal 3653.1 direct damage. That would puts its DPS on par with a Wyrikiomi SL. So... Standard PLC: 3042.2 Damage Advanced PLC: 3347.65 Damage Allotek PLC: 3653.1 Damage This would mean that an Plasma Cannon would OHK or 2-shot ANY** vehicles. Any tank would just die if they get shot in the rear, unless they have any hardeners active. Otherwise they would take 2 hits. ADSes would always instapop. As they should. Hitting those things is still hard. Standard DSs would be able to take 2 hits if they fit a bit of tank. LAVs too. Hitting them is the hardest, unless they are parked. They would always be OHK. And you know what? Thats completely reasonable... The Plasma Cannon is not an Av weapon its an alternative to a Mass driver.This is evident by the splash damage and weapon bonuses. Allotek PLC 313.50 3.5m radius Freedom MD 159.50 dmg 4.4m radius Assault MD 95.70 dmg 6.6m radius Core MD 111.65 dmg 3.30m radius. As you level up your PLC you increase the fire rate both reloading skill and core skill decrease the amount of time it takes to fire the weapon. This is decreased even further when equipping a PLC on a Gal Commando. Now on the other side leveling your MD skills increase the amount of splash damage you can do within your radius which also increases as you progress your skills. The PLC can be out done by a MD if caught in a small area but with skill you can 1 hit the MD user and at a much greater distance. Both obscure your view as you use them MD users are mainly blocked by the smoke trail of their own weapon which leads them to rapidly firing predicting were there target will be. Plc users are obstructed by the massive size of their weapon but are rewarded with better sights and a weapon trail that can be used as a guide after firing allowing for adjustments after each reload. Each weapon is capable of blowing up vehicles under certain circumstances combining these weapons on suits other than commandos open waves of opportunity on a gal scout you can use your stealth to carry a PLC REs and Av nades. On a Caldari Scout you can stack damage mods flux grenades REs and a MD both give you stealth speed and damage any unsuspecting tank can be killed with ease. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JS8LAlWrKEE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_0LvhfFL-Y Swarms should be the weakest av in the game though because easy mode....
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2329	Posted - 2015.01.20 19:19:00 - [100] - Quote Ld Collins wrote: The Plasma Cannon is not an Av weapon I'm paraphrasing, but... CCP wrote: The Plasma Cannon is AV. Home at Last <3

Cyrus Grevare WarRavens Capital Punishment. 389	Posted - 2015.01.20 19:29:00 - [101] - Quote PLCs needs a direct hit buff, how much I don't know, splash looks good. As a versatile weapon and vs infantry it's good and fun. Yet being placed as AV, as it is now you can't reliably force HAVs to stay away from urban areas. LAVs and Dropships are incredibly hard to hit. Even if a dropship is flying low it can take several hits before needing to retreat, it's a dumb quest trying to take one down (but fun ^^) even more if it starts shooting back. I'm medium infantry, I skilled into Swarm Launchers at first because it was the only option, sadly still is. I agree that giving the PLC a fighting chance against vehicles would reduce the presence of swarms in the field, I can't see why vehicle users don't agree with this - true the proposed buff made by the OP might be too much, but a buff is needed, unless of course pilots want to keep loling around PLC users whenever they try to do some damage :D www.protofits.com - a Dust 514 fitting tool
Vesta Opalus T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K General Tso's Alliance 310	Posted - 2015.01.20 20:40:00 - [102] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Juno Tristan wrote: Quick question, what do you think vehicles should do on the battlefield? Not be pissed off because they only getting killed by swarms because swarms are the only viable light AV. 1.)Transportation. That's pretty much the main purpose of a vehicle right there. But I'm sure you are talking about only HAVs when you say "vehicles"... In that case, 1.) Infantry Suppression, when used in conjunction with infantry. Their presence should cause non-AV infantry to generally take cover. They currently do this pretty well. Note: when I say suppression, I don't mean killing. HAVs should be able to kill infantry, but their role should not be to farm them. 2.) AV. Large Turrets would remain the best AV options, even with the proposed PLC changes. So they would still have this. 3.) Installation destruction. Sorta like AV, but only HAVs have sufficient ammo reserves to make a viable role out of this. *4.) Destruction of map assets. Not Installations. I'd like to see stuff like, walls, gates, explosive containers and doors added to the game. Stuff that only an HAV could destroy quickly. Stuff that would take multiple hits from AV, but an HAV would be much more suited for. Went back and found the post so I could like it just for #4, would be cool to have stuff like that around that changes the flow of fights around sockets structures. Should make a suggestion from that in Features & Stuff forum
Vesta Opalus T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K General Tso's Alliance 310	Posted - 2015.01.20 20:41:00 - [103] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Swarm DPS is higher than the HMG Tank health is higher than a sentinel.
BEAST ESD1 Y.A.M.A.H 16	Posted - 2015.01.20 20:54:00 - [104] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: GÇóA Swarm Luncher outputs 1040-1248 damage every 1.4 seconds without factoring any Damage multipliers, just base damage. That's a total of 742-891 DPS, depending on tier. Currently, Plasma Cannons do 1150-1501.5 damage every 4.1 seconds, without factoring in any Damage multipliers. That's only 280 DPS at the Standard tier, and still only 366.21 DPS at Prototype. A PRO Plasma Cannon deals less than half the DPS a Standard Swarm Launcher does. That's messed up. Even if we max out every reload and charge time skill, and increase the damage as much as we can with a Gallente Commando and Damage mods... We still only get 696.63 DPS. Still less than a Standard Swarm Launcher on any suit. This is rediculous. So let's increase Plasma Cannons to Swarm levels of DPS. At the base level. Without any modifiers accounted for. 1.) Buff Damage. By a ***** lot. An Allotek Plasma Cannon should outDPS a PRO Swarm launcher, without having to factor in any other multipliers. It just should. Period. At the very least, it should do the same DPS. With this in mind, an Allotek Plasma Cannon should deal 3653.1 direct damage. That would puts its DPS on par with a Wyrikiomi SL. So... Standard PLC: 3042.2 Damage Advanced PLC: 3347.65 Damage Allotek PLC: 3653.1 Damage This would mean that an Plasma Cannon would OHK or 2-shot ANY** vehicles. Any tank would just die if they get shot in the rear, unless they have any hardeners active. Otherwise they would take 2 hits. ADSes would always instapop. As they should. Hitting those things is still hard. Standard DSs would be able to take 2 hits if they fit a bit of tank. LAVs too. Hitting them is the hardest, unless they are parked. They would always be OHK. And you know what? Thats completely reasonable... I'm all for pc matching swarm point for point in dps as long as it only applied when you use it as AV ( BUT NOT ) if you use it on infantry
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16710	Posted - 2015.01.20 21:00:00 - [105] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Juno Tristan wrote: Quick question, what do you think vehicles should do on the battlefield? Not be pissed off because they only getting killed by swarms because swarms are the only viable light AV. 1.)Transportation. That's pretty much the main purpose of a vehicle right there. But I'm sure you are talking about only HAVs when you say "vehicles"... In that case, 1.) Infantry Suppression, when used in conjunction with infantry. Their presence should cause non-AV infantry to generally take cover. They currently do this pretty well. Note: when I say suppression, I don't mean killing. HAVs should be able to kill infantry, but their role should not be to farm them. 2.) AV. Large Turrets would remain the best AV options, even with the proposed PLC changes. So they would still have this. 3.) Installation destruction. Sorta like AV, but only HAVs have sufficient ammo reserves to make a viable role out of this. 4.) Destruction of map assets. Not Installations. I'd like to see stuff like, walls, gates, explosive containers and doors added to the game. Stuff that only an HAV could destroy quickly. Stuff that would take multiple hits from AV, but an HAV would be much more suited for. Went back and found the post so I could like it just for #4, would be cool to have stuff like that around that changes the flow of fights around sockets structures. Should make a suggestion from that in Features & Stuff forum It's already being talked about. I brought this up weeks ago in the HAV thread. - Ground vehicles need a dedicated form of Transport (MAV) - Large Turrets should primarily be large calibre anti tank/vehicle guns with splash damage and low rates of fire. - Destruction of battlefield assets is healthy for vehicles "He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3620	Posted - 2015.01.20 21:12:00 - [106] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Since apparently nobody wants to be 2-3 shot by Plasma Cannons, what do you vehicle guys think would be an acceptable amount of shots to take down vehicles? AV should be a deterrent, not the nuclear, rods from god or asteroid option. By definition if an AV weapon cannot not stop you, it cannot deter you either. A detterent does not deter if the detered is never in fear of reprisal. That is to say if AV does not kill you fast enough, that it's presence causes you to flee, it has not dettered you. Remember, every shot takes about 3.5-4 seconds, after the first, which takes about half a second. For which weapon are you talking about? At level 5, swarms take 1.05 seconds to lock on. Assault forge charges in about 2.5 seconds, I don't know what the plasma charges at at level 5, I've never had it to 5. Breach is about 5.3 seconds or so. Do you actually read these in-depth before you comment? Or do you just created a biased view on the closest approximation to what you believe they are saying? The weapon should not be balanced around Galmandos, because then the weapon would only be useful on Galmandos. It needs to be balanced for every suit, with the Galmando being the best at it. Then all infantry weapons should be balanced around their suit, because I laugh seeing a Gal assault using a rail rifle. Once again, where did you learn to read? Wille Wonka's Choclate Factory? Fizzer is saying no weapon should be balanced around a suit, otherwise that weapon is only balanced when equipped on that suit. Instead weapons should be balanced completly devoid of any other common factors. Still too long. Of course you think it's too long. Maybe we should just remove vehicles altogether, since you want them all to be so weak. Maybe we should give the Madrugar 2000 HP total, 1500 armor and 500 shield. Wait so 11 seconds is long enough? For a solo AVer, who has probably been waiting for you to waltz into their kill zone, or followed you round the map, avoided your detection whilst firing, at close enough range to hit you (giving away their posistion) fending off enemy infantry you in your PRO fatsuit and still killing your vehicle? If it takes 11 seconds from the first hit to kill a HAV that gives you at least 6 seconds to, a) make your intended impact b) root out and kill the little scoundrel c) send your infantry to hunt him down like a dog and still gives you a full 5 seconds with which to retreat, which if you have a nitro booster equipped is enough time to cover the entire width of most G1 maps. Evan at 3 shots your looking at a 4 second up time + 5 second escape window, and that's is assuming the PLC is actively hunting you or prepared for you BEFORE you arrive. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Vesta Opalus T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K General Tso's Alliance 312	Posted - 2015.01.20 21:14:00 - [107] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Juno Tristan wrote: Quick question, what do you think vehicles should do on the battlefield? Not be pissed off because they only getting killed by swarms because swarms are the only viable light AV. 1.)Transportation. That's pretty much the main purpose of a vehicle right there. But I'm sure you are talking about only HAVs when you say "vehicles"... In that case, 1.) Infantry Suppression, when used in conjunction with infantry. Their presence should cause non-AV infantry to generally take cover. They currently do this pretty well. Note: when I say suppression, I don't mean killing. HAVs should be able to kill infantry, but their role should not be to farm them. 2.) AV. Large Turrets would remain the best AV options, even with the proposed PLC changes. So they would still have this. 3.) Installation destruction. Sorta like AV, but only HAVs have sufficient ammo reserves to make a viable role out of this. *4.) Destruction of map assets. Not Installations. I'd like to see stuff like, walls, gates, explosive containers and doors added to the game. Stuff that only an HAV could destroy quickly. Stuff that would take multiple hits from AV, but an HAV would be much more suited for. Went back and found the post so I could like it just for #4, would be cool to have stuff like that around that changes the flow of fights around sockets structures. Should make a suggestion from that in Features & Stuff forum It's already being talked about. I brought this up weeks ago in the HAV thread. - Ground vehicles need a dedicated form of Transport (MAV) - Large Turrets should primarily be large calibre anti tank/vehicle guns with splash damage and low rates of fire. - Destruction of battlefield assets is healthy for vehicles Also the buff to the Plasma Cannon to roughly 3000 direct is certainly a poor suggestion. That is arguably too powerful for the technology involved, not limited to the Sentinel Suit. Might want to balanced that between damage increase and reload speed decrease. Otherwise you unbalance infantry gameplay by having and instagib weapon and create poor balance amongst the lighter vehicles. The plasma cannon is already an instagib weapon. I'd like to see MAV be a hybrid of transport with dedicated strong anti infantry turrets, that way MAV could kick the crap out of infantry but a HAV could beat the heck out of MAVs, something like that. But Im sure MAV is a long way off so I wont hold my breath.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16710	Posted - 2015.01.20 21:30:00 - [108] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: The plasma cannon is already an instagib weapon. I'd like to see MAV be a hybrid of transport with dedicated strong anti infantry turrets, that way MAV could kick the crap out of infantry but a HAV could beat the heck out of MAVs, something like that. But Im sure MAV is a long way off so I wont hold my breath. That was my thought. I hate the current "assault" weapon turrets dust has now. For AV weapon produced by an Empire there would be an equivalent Anti Tank Gun mounted on their armoured vehicles that is simply bigger, better,more efficient. Plasma Cannon -> Charged Electron Cannon with Void Rounds Forge Gun -> 150mm Carbide Railgun with Super Dense Iridum Discarding Sabots Scrambler Lance -> Dual Focused Beam/Pulse Laser with Scorch Focusing Crystals "Minmatar AV" -> 200mm Artillery Cannon with Quake HEAP Rounds *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 3162	Posted - 2015.01.20 21:43:00 - [109] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: I do find it hilarious that a lock on weapon that is really difficult to miss with massively outDPSes a weapon which takes a good deal of skill to aim and is very difficult to use at a quarter of the max range of said lock on weapon. This is only funny because of the stigma that surrounds the Swarm launcher because of the mechanics of the weapon and the perceived notion of play skill around it. It is more funny to me that people make a connection with DPS and a 1 shot clip high alpha damage weapon. Then proceed to talk about some sort of balance attempt when the core concept is funny.
Banjo Robertson Random Gunz RISE of LEGION 408	Posted - 2015.01.28 12:22:00 - [110] - Quote At the very least plasma cannon should have the same DPS than swarms, but should probably have more DPS because its harder to hit targets with it, keep splash damage the same but increase direct damage.

Echo 1991 Titans of Phoenix VP Gaming Alliance 706	Posted - 2015.01.28 12:29:00 - [111] - Quote i would increase damage by about 300-400 and decrease reload time a bit. its an alpha weapon, it shouldnt have the same DPS close to but not the same.
Mobius Wyvern Sky-FIRE 5744	Posted - 2015.01.28 12:43:00 - [112] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: GÇóA Swarm Luncher outputs 1040-1248 damage every 1.4 seconds without factoring any Damage multipliers, just base damage. That's a total of 742-891 DPS, depending on tier. Currently, Plasma Cannons do 1150-1501.5 damage every 4.1 seconds, without factoring in any Damage multipliers. That's only 280 DPS at the Standard tier, and still only 366.21 DPS at Prototype. A PRO Plasma Cannon deals less than half the DPS a Standard Swarm Launcher does. That's messed up. Even if we max out every reload and charge time skill, and increase the damage as much as we can with a Gallente Commando and Damage mods... We still only get 696.63 DPS. Still less than a Standard Swarm Launcher on any suit. This is rediculous. So let's increase Plasma Cannons to Swarm levels of DPS. At the base level. Without any modifiers accounted for. 1.) Buff Damage. By a ***** lot. An Allotek Plasma Cannon should outDPS a PRO Swarm launcher, without having to factor in any other multipliers. It just should. Period. At the very least, it should do the same DPS. With this in mind, an Allotek Plasma Cannon should deal 3653.1 direct damage. That would puts its DPS on par with a Wyrikiomi SL. So... Standard PLC: 3042.2 Damage Advanced PLC: 3347.65 Damage Allotek PLC: 3653.1 Damage This would mean that an Plasma Cannon would OHK or 2-shot ANY** vehicles. Any tank would just die if they get shot in the rear, unless they have any hardeners active. Otherwise they would take 2 hits. ADSes would always instapop. As they should. Hitting those things is still hard. Standard DSs would be able to take 2 hits if they fit a bit of tank. LAVs too. Hitting them is the hardest, unless they are parked. They would always be OHK. And you know what? Thats completely reasonable... Agreed. Those things take the most user skill to use and reward that skill the least. I support Keshava for Gallente Specialist HAV R.I.P. Kesha
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1958	Posted - 2015.01.28 12:48:00 - [113] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: GÇóA Swarm Luncher outputs 1040-1248 damage every 1.4 seconds without factoring any Damage multipliers, just base damage... it doesnt. HINT: fire interval, burst interval, lock on delay (not lock on time). you will at best fire a volley per 2,55s and that is not accounting any UI delays we currently have. that is 489 dps with proto swarms before reload and much less factoring in reloading time beside that, everyone that used swarms once knows that firing every 1.4 seconds is just made up BS. need more evidence to bust your little small fantasy bubble? well here it is: STD swarms fired as fast as possible => https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEmCY4Qh0jk skip to 1:35 01:36:00 Start first lock 01:37:73 First lock complete 01:38:60 First swarm finishes firing 01:40:93 Second lock completes 01:41:63 Second swarm finishes firing 01:44:53 Third lock completes 01:45:47 Third swarm finishes firing
Banjo Robertson Random Gunz RISE of LEGION 408	Posted - 2015.01.28 13:13:00 - [114] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: GÇóA Swarm Luncher outputs 1040-1248 damage every 1.4 seconds without factoring any Damage multipliers, just base damage... it doesnt. another post based on bias and misinformation, who would guess that Fizzer would do it again... HINT: fire interval, burst interval, lock on delay (not lock on time). you will at best fire a volley per 2,55s and that is not accounting any UI delays we currently have. that is 489 dps with proto swarms before reload and much less factoring in reloading time beside that, everyone that used swarms once knows that firing every 1.4 seconds is just made up BS. need more evidence to bust your little small fantasy bubble? well here it is: STD swarms fired as fast as possible => https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEmCY4Qh0jk skip to 1:35 01:36:00 Start first lock 01:37:73 First lock complete 01:38:60 First swarm finishes firing 01:40:93 Second lock completes 01:41:63 Second swarm finishes firing 01:44:53 Third lock completes 01:45:47 Third swarm finishes firing in short: busted, again... The delay from locking on is about as equivilant to aiming the plasma cannon before firing, depending on the skill of the player it could take less time to aim the plasma cannon, or more time to aim the plasma cannon if the target is starting/stopping or turning frequently. And in these scenarios a plasma cannon will miss outright, where the swarm launch will still be locked on and have a good chance to hit unless terrain is used to block them. Right now these make it easier to dodge a plasma cannon than dodge a swarm launcher, which I feel is reason enough to make PLC out DPS a swarm.
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1958	Posted - 2015.01.28 13:21:00 - [115] - Quote Banjo Robertson wrote: Jack McReady wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: GÇóA Swarm Luncher outputs 1040-1248 damage every 1.4 seconds without factoring any Damage multipliers, just base damage... it doesnt. another post based on bias and misinformation, who would guess that Fizzer would do it again... HINT: fire interval, burst interval, lock on delay (not lock on time). you will at best fire a volley per 2,55s and that is not accounting any UI delays we currently have. that is 489 dps with proto swarms before reload and much less factoring in reloading time beside that, everyone that used swarms once knows that firing every 1.4 seconds is just made up BS. need more evidence to bust your little small fantasy bubble? well here it is: STD swarms fired as fast as possible => https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEmCY4Qh0jk skip to 1:35 01:36:00 Start first lock 01:37:73 First lock complete 01:38:60 First swarm finishes firing 01:40:93 Second lock completes 01:41:63 Second swarm finishes firing 01:44:53 Third lock completes 01:45:47 Third swarm finishes firing in short: busted, again... The delay from locking on is about as equivilant to aiming the plasma cannon before firing, depending on the skill of the player it could take less time to aim the plasma cannon, or more time to aim the plasma cannon if the target is starting/stopping or turning frequently. And in these scenarios a plasma cannon will miss outright, where the swarm launch will still be locked on and have a good chance to hit unless terrain is used to block them. Right now these make it easier to dodge a plasma cannon than dodge a swarm launcher, which I feel is reason enough to make PLC out DPS a swarm. please stop. I never claimed that it is easier to hit with PLC. but I know and its a fact that you cant fire a volley every 1.4s. with lock delay, lock on time, fire interval and burst interval it is 2.55s with lvl5 in swarms and as shown in the video this number is damn accurate to its ingame performance unlike the 1.4s everyone is pulling out of his arse. that is 489 dps at proto, ~37x dps if you factor in reloading time. not near as bad as all those pilot whiners claim. factor in flight time and we are in 10 second territory.
Banjo Robertson Random Gunz RISE of LEGION 408	Posted - 2015.01.28 13:32:00 - [116] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: Banjo Robertson wrote: Jack McReady wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: GÇóA Swarm Luncher outputs 1040-1248 damage every 1.4 seconds without factoring any Damage multipliers, just base damage... it doesnt. another post based on bias and misinformation, who would guess that Fizzer would do it again... HINT: fire interval, burst interval, lock on delay (not lock on time). you will at best fire a volley per 2,55s and that is not accounting any UI delays we currently have. that is 489 dps with proto swarms before reload and much less factoring in reloading time beside that, everyone that used swarms once knows that firing every 1.4 seconds is just made up BS. need more evidence to bust your little small fantasy bubble? well here it is: STD swarms fired as fast as possible => https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEmCY4Qh0jk skip to 1:35 01:36:00 Start first lock 01:37:73 First lock complete 01:38:60 First swarm finishes firing 01:40:93 Second lock completes 01:41:63 Second swarm finishes firing 01:44:53 Third lock completes 01:45:47 Third swarm finishes firing in short: busted, again... The delay from locking on is about as equivilant to aiming the plasma cannon before firing, depending on the skill of the player it could take less time to aim the plasma cannon, or more time to aim the plasma cannon if the target is starting/stopping or turning frequently. And in these scenarios a plasma cannon will miss outright, where the swarm launch will still be locked on and have a good chance to hit unless terrain is used to block them. Right now these make it easier to dodge a plasma cannon than dodge a swarm launcher, which I feel is reason enough to make PLC out DPS a swarm. please stop. I never claimed that it is easier to hit with PLC. but I know and its a fact that you cant fire a volley every 1.4s. with lock delay, lock on time, fire interval and burst interval it is 2.55s with lvl5 in swarms and as shown in the video this number is damn accurate to its ingame performance unlike the 1.4s everyone is pulling out of his arse. that is 489 dps at proto, ~37x dps if you factor in reloading time. not near as bad as all those pilot whiners claim. factor in flight time and we are in 10 second territory. I'm not disagreeing with you on that, but you can also factor those things into plasma cannon, you wont be firing it right after it reloads because of aiming, and even if you did, the OP said DPS for proto plasma is somewhere under 400 dps, 300 something. It also has travel time on the projectile getting to the target. The swarm DPS isnt as high as the OP said, but its still higher than the plasma cannon DPS, and with the plasma cannon taking more skill to actually hit a target, one shot per clip, longer reload speed, it should have a higher DPS.
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1958	Posted - 2015.01.28 13:41:00 - [117] - Quote Banjo Robertson wrote: the OP said DPS for proto swarm is somewhere under 400 dps, 300 something. he didnt... Fizzer XCIV wrote: That's a total of 742-891 DPS, depending on tier.
Banjo Robertson Random Gunz RISE of LEGION 408	Posted - 2015.01.28 13:43:00 - [118] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: Banjo Robertson wrote: the OP said DPS for proto swarm is somewhere under 400 dps, 300 something. he didnt... Fizzer XCIV wrote: That's a total of 742-891 DPS, depending on tier. I mistyped, i meant to type plasma and i edited my post. Proto plasma is still less DPS than proto swarm with your calculated dps for proto swarm.
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1958	Posted - 2015.01.28 13:46:00 - [119] - Quote Banjo Robertson wrote: I mistyped, i meant to type plasma and i edited my post. Proto plasma is still less DPS than proto swarm with your calculated dps for proto swarm. it isnt higher by a big margin, the difference of the real dps of both weapons are rather small. beside that it is like comparing apples and oranges. PLC still has AI capabilities, swarm does not. I wouldnt mind a PLC buff, I will welcome any buff to squeeze more tears out of scrub pilots but imho what PLC really needs are just other variants, like breach and assault PLC.
Banjo Robertson Random Gunz RISE of LEGION 408	Posted - 2015.01.28 13:57:00 - [120] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: Banjo Robertson wrote: I mistyped, i meant to type plasma and i edited my post. Proto plasma is still less DPS than proto swarm with your calculated dps for proto swarm. it isnt higher by a big margin, the difference of the real dps of both weapons are rather small. beside that it is like comparing apples and oranges. PLC still has AI capabilities, swarm does not. I wouldnt mind a PLC buff, I will welcome any buff to squeeze more tears out of scrub pilots but imho what PLC really needs are just other variants, like breach and assault PLC. Yup, and I've started two different threads about PLC variants. 480ish DPS proto swarm vs 360 ish DPS proto plasma though. Swarm will hit every shot until terrain and distance make it impossible, plasma might hit the first two shots vs a tank, might hit the first shot vs a dropship. I find even vs most LAVs it takes two PLC shots to blow them up. I don't want the DPS to be as high as OP suggests, but I think a 10-15% increase in direct damage would be good enough, without boosting splash damage. Being able to 1hk infantry with PLC I think doesnt make up for the AV in which it lacks, its much harder to kill infantry with PLC than tanks, and splash damage usually means you have to switch weapons to finish them off.

Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 2043	Posted - 2015.01.28 14:11:00 - [121] - Quote Banjo Robertson wrote: 480ish DPS proto swarm vs 360 ish DPS proto plasma though. Swarm will hit every shot until terrain and distance make it impossible, plasma might hit the first two shots vs a tank, might hit the first shot vs a dropship. I find even vs most LAVs it takes two PLC shots to blow them up. if you factor in reload for PLC you have to factor in reload for swarms... with reload you get around ~326 dps for swarms. PLC has 0.5s fire interval additionally to charge up. with reload and max skills that would be ~294 base dps. big deal, all that anti swarm whining is just a pathetic farce. as you see, pilots are just that, littly whiny wimps.
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2379	Posted - 2015.02.12 17:00:00 - [122] - Quote Bump. Maybe this will catch Ratatti's eye since he says he's been using Plasma Cannons recently and has also noticed their ineffectiveness vs vehicles. Home at Last <3
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 5971	Posted - 2015.02.12 17:19:00 - [123] - Quote Quote: Plasma Cannons should do more DPS than Swarms. I am fine with this, and here is why. 1) As a Sentinel I get one-shotted by a direct hit from a plasma cannon, so direct damage is irrelevant to infantry players. A buff to direct damage will not effect infantry. 2) The Plasma Cannon has a slower fire rate, travel time, and has to be aimed as a dumb-fire weapon. The DPS of the Plasma Cannon should be slightly greater than the Swarm Launcher. (Not too much greater though, or it could make Swarms irrelevant.) Splash damage/radius should be left were it is now though, as adding to the splash too much could make it OP against infantry. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 5971	Posted - 2015.02.12 17:23:00 - [124] - Quote Grimmiers wrote: I want 3 shots per clip like the swarm. Officer can do 4. That would make it OP against Infantry. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 5971	Posted - 2015.02.12 17:31:00 - [125] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: ''Plasma Cannons should do more DPS than Swarms'' No they shouldnt. Reason is that PC hits infantry too while Swarms dont. This gives PC an innate advatage in usefulness over Swarms. Of course, i wouldnt mind the PC getting buffed at all, just saying why the above statement is incorrect. Wouldnt mind getting dumb fire for swarms either. The PLC one hits almost every suit, except sentinels. It should one hit sentinels. **** sentinels. It one hits my Sentinels, but I don't brick tank. I see no issue with it one hitting a brick tanked Sentinel, as the reload time is enough of a balance in a HMG vs Plasma Cannon fight. It does seem like a fairly good counter to Sentinels, at least from the perspective of a Sentinel who has gotten a fair amount of plasma in the face recently. I had a funny moment a while back were a Squad mate (medium frame suit) in front of me sidestepped to avoid a ball of Plasma and I got it right in the face. The guy with the Plasma Cannon was not even shooting at me. Talk about a lucky/unlucky shot! Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
DUST Fiend Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 15722	Posted - 2015.02.12 18:22:00 - [126] - Quote Single shot AV should absolutely not exist, ever. Even damage stacked large railguns and breach forge guns take two shots to kill most fits. Single shot AV is the epitome of horrible game design and favors luck over skill, for both players involved. My YouTube (currently inactive) Homeless Dropship Enthusiast "See You Space Cowboy"
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2380	Posted - 2015.02.12 18:50:00 - [127] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Single shot AV should absolutely not exist, ever. Even damage stacked large railguns and breach forge guns take two shots to kill most fits. Single shot AV is the epitome of horrible game design and favors luck over skill, for both players involved. Again, for like the 5th time, the only things that would be OHK'd would be unfit shield LAVs, unfit shield Dropships, and unhardened critical hits on low HP shield HAVs. Pretty much everything else would take 2-4 direct hits, depending on how the pilot reacts to the Cannoneer. No matter how you spin any of those OHKs, they all require skill, mostly because spamming Plasma Cannons is impossible. No Plasma Cannon kill requites more luck than skill, and this wouldn't change that. Also, why should vehicles be completely exempt from OHKs, while OHKs are a fairly thing regular for any infantry, even bricked sentinels? Home at Last <3


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