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Plasma Cannons should do more DPS than Swarms.

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Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 549	Posted - 2015.01.20 15:27:00 - [91] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: GÇóA Swarm Luncher outputs 1040-1248 damage every 1.4 seconds without factoring any Damage multipliers, just base damage. That's a total of 742-891 DPS, depending on tier. Currently, Plasma Cannons do 1150-1501.5 damage every 4.1 seconds, without factoring in any Damage multipliers. That's only 280 DPS at the Standard tier, and still only 366.21 DPS at Prototype. A PRO Plasma Cannon deals less than half the DPS a Standard Swarm Launcher does. That's messed up. Even if we max out every reload and charge time skill, and increase the damage as much as we can with a Gallente Commando and Damage mods... We still only get 696.63 DPS. Still less than a Standard Swarm Launcher on any suit. This is rediculous. So let's increase Plasma Cannons to Swarm levels of DPS. At the base level. Without any modifiers accounted for. 1.) Buff Damage. By a ***** lot. An Allotek Plasma Cannon should outDPS a PRO Swarm launcher, without having to factor in any other multipliers. It just should. Period. At the very least, it should do the same DPS. With this in mind, an Allotek Plasma Cannon should deal 3653.1 direct damage. That would puts its DPS on par with a Wyrikiomi SL. So... Standard PLC: 3042.2 Damage Advanced PLC: 3347.65 Damage Allotek PLC: 3653.1 Damage This would mean that an Plasma Cannon would OHK or 2-shot ANY** vehicles. Any tank would just die if they get shot in the rear, unless they have any hardeners active. Otherwise they would take 2 hits. ADSes would always instapop. As they should. Hitting those things is still hard. Standard DSs would be able to take 2 hits if they fit a bit of tank. LAVs too. Hitting them is the hardest, unless they are parked. They would always be OHK. And you know what? Thats completely reasonable... 1. Over 3000damage? That is more than a Breach FG, more than any of the FG and also more than any of the vehicle turrets which fire one round - Not reasonable 2. More like Basic - 1500, Adv - 1750, Proto - 2000 but then again i want 500splash damage and a 5m radius for my large missiles so i can kill infantry because its a 6ft missile 3. I can OHK a HAV with a breach FG to the weakspot already
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2329	Posted - 2015.01.20 17:57:00 - [92] - Quote Since apparently nobody wants to be 2-3 shot by Plasma Cannons, what do you vehicle guys think would be an acceptable amount of shots to take down vehicles? Home at Last <3
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2329	Posted - 2015.01.20 18:35:00 - [93] - Quote One of the things that tankers always *** about is how the Swarms should be able to kill them so fast because its a relatively skilless weapon. But yet I propose a weapon that kills them just as fast, but requires actual skill, and they still *** and moan because it would kill them quickly. Seems to me that tankers just don't want to die fast, or more accurately, not at all. Home at Last <3
Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 561	Posted - 2015.01.20 18:44:00 - [94] - Quote 1. You propose nothing except a super beefed weapon which 2 shots everything if not OHK outright, even vehicles do not OHK outright unless a missile vs a maddy which frankly needs a buff anyways 2. Pilots want vehicle battles not twitch battles like now which are no fun so of course a OHK AV weapon isnt going to be any fun because most AV weapons currently require less SP and ISK than it takes to run a decent vehicle which wont get blown away by AV so then what is point of vehicles if AV can OHK them? 3. Why is it that AV always thinks that they should be the ones to outright kill vehicles and not the vehicles themselves? if infantry does it better then why do we need vehicles?
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2329	Posted - 2015.01.20 18:58:00 - [95] - Quote Lazer Fo Cused wrote: 1. You propose nothing except a super beefed weapon which 2 shots everything if not OHK outright, even vehicles do not OHK outright unless a missile vs a maddy which frankly needs a buff anyways 2. Pilots want vehicle battles not twitch battles like now which are no fun so of course a OHK AV weapon isnt going to be any fun because most AV weapons currently require less SP and ISK than it takes to run a decent vehicle which wont get blown away by AV so then what is point of vehicles if AV can OHK them? 3. Why is it that AV always thinks that they should be the ones to outright kill vehicles and not the vehicles themselves? if infantry does it better then why do we need vehicles? 1.) It would only 1 hit kill on an unhardened critical shot vs lightly tanked Militia HAV and Militia LAVs. Pretty much everything else would take 2 kits, minimum. Minimum. For any HAV, the 2HKs would only happen if the pilot takes no reactionary or preactionary measures at all. Basically, an unpiloted HAV sitting still will die in 2 hits. That seems reasonable. 2.) So you want TTKs so long that you have the time and speed to simply opt out of any situation that doesn't suit your fancy? You want to be practically immune to ambushes? And a STARTER suit can kill a full Protobear. ISK price and SP should provide advantages, not immunity to anything less than them. 3.) Maybe because it is called AV or Anti-Vehicle, which, you know, strongly implies that it might be purposed to destroy vehicles. Why do HAVs think they should be able to kill infantry without infantry being able to kill them? If tanks arethat powerful, why use infantry at all? Home at Last <3
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2801	Posted - 2015.01.20 19:00:00 - [96] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Since apparently nobody wants to be 2-3 shot by Plasma Cannons, what do you vehicle guys think would be an acceptable amount of shots to take down vehicles? AV should be a deterrent, not the nuclear, rods from god or asteroid option. Remember, every shot takes about 3.5-4 seconds, after the first, which takes about half a second. For which weapon are you talking about? At level 5, swarms take 1.05 seconds to lock on. Assault forge charges in about 2.5 seconds, I don't know what the plasma charges at at level 5, I've never had it to 5. Breach is about 5.3 seconds or so. The weapon should not be balanced around Galmandos, because then the weapon would only be useful on Galmandos. It needs to be balanced for every suit, with the Galmando being the best at it. Then all infantry weapons should be balanced around their suit, because I laugh seeing a Gal assault using a rail rifle. Still too long. Of course you think it's too long. Maybe we should just remove vehicles altogether, since you want them all to be so weak. Maybe we should give the Madrugar 2000 HP total, 1500 armor and 500 shield. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2329	Posted - 2015.01.20 19:10:00 - [97] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Since apparently nobody wants to be 2-3 shot by Plasma Cannons, what do you vehicle guys think would be an acceptable amount of shots to take down vehicles? AV should be a deterrent, not the nuclear, rods from god or asteroid option. Then vehicles should be merely a deterrant to infantry as well. Unable to actually kill any infantry without planning and teamwork. It should take at least 2 HAVs or ADSs to kill me. Anything less should just slightly damage me and cause me to run away for a few seconds before coming back. Remember, every shot takes about 3.5-4 seconds, after the first, which takes about half a second. For which weapon are you talking about? At level 5, swarms take 1.05 seconds to lock on. Assault forge charges in about 2.5 seconds, I don't know what the plasma charges at at level 5, I've never had it to 5. Breach is about 5.3 seconds or so. I'm talking about Plasma Cannons, obviously. Hence the name of the thread and the majority of its content topic. The weapon should not be balanced around Galmandos, because then the weapon would only be useful on Galmandos. It needs to be balanced for every suit, with the Galmando being the best at it. Then all infantry weapons should be balanced around their suit, because I laugh seeing a Gal assault using a rail rifle. Did you not read what I said. I said weapons should not be balanced around a specific suit. They should be usable on any suit, with some suits gaining bonuses to certain weapons or weapon types. Still too long. Of course you think it's too long. Maybe we should just remove vehicles altogether, since you want them all to be so weak. Maybe we should give the Madrugar 2000 HP total, 1500 armor and 500 shield. If you don't think 8-11 second isnt too long... for a Maxed out Plasma Cannon against a Militia HAV... then you are just further proving that you want the 1.7 murderwagons back. You want infantry to be unable to harm you while you farm infantry, and that doesn't make for good interplay. If you want to be able to kill, you need to accept that you can be killed just as easily. That's simple FPS balance. Home at Last <3
Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 565	Posted - 2015.01.20 19:10:00 - [98] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Lazer Fo Cused wrote: 1. You propose nothing except a super beefed weapon which 2 shots everything if not OHK outright, even vehicles do not OHK outright unless a missile vs a maddy which frankly needs a buff anyways 2. Pilots want vehicle battles not twitch battles like now which are no fun so of course a OHK AV weapon isnt going to be any fun because most AV weapons currently require less SP and ISK than it takes to run a decent vehicle which wont get blown away by AV so then what is point of vehicles if AV can OHK them? 3. Why is it that AV always thinks that they should be the ones to outright kill vehicles and not the vehicles themselves? if infantry does it better then why do we need vehicles? 1.) It would only 1 hit kill on an unhardened critical shot vs lightly tanked Militia HAV and Militia LAVs. Pretty much everything else would take 2 kits, minimum. Minimum. For any HAV, the 2HKs would only happen if the pilot takes no reactionary or preactionary measures at all. Basically, an unpiloted HAV sitting still will die in 2 hits. That seems reasonable. 2.) So you want TTKs so long that you have the time and speed to simply opt out of any situation that doesn't suit your fancy? You want to be practically immune to ambushes? And a STARTER suit can kill a full Protobear. ISK price and SP should provide advantages, not immunity to anything less than them. 3.) Maybe because it is called AV or Anti-Vehicle, which, you know, strongly implies that it might be purposed to destroy vehicles. Why do HAVs think they should be able to kill infantry without infantry being able to kill them? If tanks arethat powerful, why use infantry at all? 1. 2HK is boring, i cant even kill infantry with blaster anymore because people like you complained about our ability to aim, a sentinal can dance in front of a blaster and survive and most likely kill the vehicle before we kill you because its luck not aim - So why should you be able to 2HK vehicles but we cant kill you? 2. Uprising vehicles battles were fun, pilots enjoyed them and we had alot of top tier pilots now tell me where are they now? i can tell you they have left, they do not enjoy piloting anymore since it got dumbed down and ripped apart - FG in uprising didnt have a problem killing vehicles 2a. Ambushes? My large missiles cannot even kill a scout with spalsh anymore and your complaining about ambushes when me with a 6ft missile gets basically 0 splash on any infantry and they can ignore me at will unless i manage to get a direct hit 2b. SP did give advanatges, it gave me a purpose and i could skill 30mil SP into vehicles and still not be done - Now im at 17mil maybe 20mil and cant even do half of what i was able to do in Uprising 3. HAVs cannot kill infantry 3a. Large missiles could - they got nerfed 3b. Large and small blaster could - they got nerfed 3c. Small rails can - Currently infantry is crying that it should be an anti vehicle weapon so i wont be suprised if that gets nerfed 3d. Vehicles cannot hack objectives - Could destroy null cannons in 1.0 but its gone
Ld Collins Titans of Phoenix VP Gaming Alliance 187	Posted - 2015.01.20 19:17:00 - [99] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: GÇóA Swarm Luncher outputs 1040-1248 damage every 1.4 seconds without factoring any Damage multipliers, just base damage. That's a total of 742-891 DPS, depending on tier. Currently, Plasma Cannons do 1150-1501.5 damage every 4.1 seconds, without factoring in any Damage multipliers. That's only 280 DPS at the Standard tier, and still only 366.21 DPS at Prototype. A PRO Plasma Cannon deals less than half the DPS a Standard Swarm Launcher does. That's messed up. Even if we max out every reload and charge time skill, and increase the damage as much as we can with a Gallente Commando and Damage mods... We still only get 696.63 DPS. Still less than a Standard Swarm Launcher on any suit. This is rediculous. So let's increase Plasma Cannons to Swarm levels of DPS. At the base level. Without any modifiers accounted for. 1.) Buff Damage. By a ***** lot. An Allotek Plasma Cannon should outDPS a PRO Swarm launcher, without having to factor in any other multipliers. It just should. Period. At the very least, it should do the same DPS. With this in mind, an Allotek Plasma Cannon should deal 3653.1 direct damage. That would puts its DPS on par with a Wyrikiomi SL. So... Standard PLC: 3042.2 Damage Advanced PLC: 3347.65 Damage Allotek PLC: 3653.1 Damage This would mean that an Plasma Cannon would OHK or 2-shot ANY** vehicles. Any tank would just die if they get shot in the rear, unless they have any hardeners active. Otherwise they would take 2 hits. ADSes would always instapop. As they should. Hitting those things is still hard. Standard DSs would be able to take 2 hits if they fit a bit of tank. LAVs too. Hitting them is the hardest, unless they are parked. They would always be OHK. And you know what? Thats completely reasonable... The Plasma Cannon is not an Av weapon its an alternative to a Mass driver.This is evident by the splash damage and weapon bonuses. Allotek PLC 313.50 3.5m radius Freedom MD 159.50 dmg 4.4m radius Assault MD 95.70 dmg 6.6m radius Core MD 111.65 dmg 3.30m radius. As you level up your PLC you increase the fire rate both reloading skill and core skill decrease the amount of time it takes to fire the weapon. This is decreased even further when equipping a PLC on a Gal Commando. Now on the other side leveling your MD skills increase the amount of splash damage you can do within your radius which also increases as you progress your skills. The PLC can be out done by a MD if caught in a small area but with skill you can 1 hit the MD user and at a much greater distance. Both obscure your view as you use them MD users are mainly blocked by the smoke trail of their own weapon which leads them to rapidly firing predicting were there target will be. Plc users are obstructed by the massive size of their weapon but are rewarded with better sights and a weapon trail that can be used as a guide after firing allowing for adjustments after each reload. Each weapon is capable of blowing up vehicles under certain circumstances combining these weapons on suits other than commandos open waves of opportunity on a gal scout you can use your stealth to carry a PLC REs and Av nades. On a Caldari Scout you can stack damage mods flux grenades REs and a MD both give you stealth speed and damage any unsuspecting tank can be killed with ease. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JS8LAlWrKEE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_0LvhfFL-Y Swarms should be the weakest av in the game though because easy mode....
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2329	Posted - 2015.01.20 19:19:00 - [100] - Quote Ld Collins wrote: The Plasma Cannon is not an Av weapon I'm paraphrasing, but... CCP wrote: The Plasma Cannon is AV. Home at Last <3

Cyrus Grevare WarRavens Capital Punishment. 389	Posted - 2015.01.20 19:29:00 - [101] - Quote PLCs needs a direct hit buff, how much I don't know, splash looks good. As a versatile weapon and vs infantry it's good and fun. Yet being placed as AV, as it is now you can't reliably force HAVs to stay away from urban areas. LAVs and Dropships are incredibly hard to hit. Even if a dropship is flying low it can take several hits before needing to retreat, it's a dumb quest trying to take one down (but fun ^^) even more if it starts shooting back. I'm medium infantry, I skilled into Swarm Launchers at first because it was the only option, sadly still is. I agree that giving the PLC a fighting chance against vehicles would reduce the presence of swarms in the field, I can't see why vehicle users don't agree with this - true the proposed buff made by the OP might be too much, but a buff is needed, unless of course pilots want to keep loling around PLC users whenever they try to do some damage :D www.protofits.com - a Dust 514 fitting tool
Vesta Opalus T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K General Tso's Alliance 310	Posted - 2015.01.20 20:40:00 - [102] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Juno Tristan wrote: Quick question, what do you think vehicles should do on the battlefield? Not be pissed off because they only getting killed by swarms because swarms are the only viable light AV. 1.)Transportation. That's pretty much the main purpose of a vehicle right there. But I'm sure you are talking about only HAVs when you say "vehicles"... In that case, 1.) Infantry Suppression, when used in conjunction with infantry. Their presence should cause non-AV infantry to generally take cover. They currently do this pretty well. Note: when I say suppression, I don't mean killing. HAVs should be able to kill infantry, but their role should not be to farm them. 2.) AV. Large Turrets would remain the best AV options, even with the proposed PLC changes. So they would still have this. 3.) Installation destruction. Sorta like AV, but only HAVs have sufficient ammo reserves to make a viable role out of this. *4.) Destruction of map assets. Not Installations. I'd like to see stuff like, walls, gates, explosive containers and doors added to the game. Stuff that only an HAV could destroy quickly. Stuff that would take multiple hits from AV, but an HAV would be much more suited for. Went back and found the post so I could like it just for #4, would be cool to have stuff like that around that changes the flow of fights around sockets structures. Should make a suggestion from that in Features & Stuff forum
Vesta Opalus T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K General Tso's Alliance 310	Posted - 2015.01.20 20:41:00 - [103] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Swarm DPS is higher than the HMG Tank health is higher than a sentinel.
BEAST ESD1 Y.A.M.A.H 16	Posted - 2015.01.20 20:54:00 - [104] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: GÇóA Swarm Luncher outputs 1040-1248 damage every 1.4 seconds without factoring any Damage multipliers, just base damage. That's a total of 742-891 DPS, depending on tier. Currently, Plasma Cannons do 1150-1501.5 damage every 4.1 seconds, without factoring in any Damage multipliers. That's only 280 DPS at the Standard tier, and still only 366.21 DPS at Prototype. A PRO Plasma Cannon deals less than half the DPS a Standard Swarm Launcher does. That's messed up. Even if we max out every reload and charge time skill, and increase the damage as much as we can with a Gallente Commando and Damage mods... We still only get 696.63 DPS. Still less than a Standard Swarm Launcher on any suit. This is rediculous. So let's increase Plasma Cannons to Swarm levels of DPS. At the base level. Without any modifiers accounted for. 1.) Buff Damage. By a ***** lot. An Allotek Plasma Cannon should outDPS a PRO Swarm launcher, without having to factor in any other multipliers. It just should. Period. At the very least, it should do the same DPS. With this in mind, an Allotek Plasma Cannon should deal 3653.1 direct damage. That would puts its DPS on par with a Wyrikiomi SL. So... Standard PLC: 3042.2 Damage Advanced PLC: 3347.65 Damage Allotek PLC: 3653.1 Damage This would mean that an Plasma Cannon would OHK or 2-shot ANY** vehicles. Any tank would just die if they get shot in the rear, unless they have any hardeners active. Otherwise they would take 2 hits. ADSes would always instapop. As they should. Hitting those things is still hard. Standard DSs would be able to take 2 hits if they fit a bit of tank. LAVs too. Hitting them is the hardest, unless they are parked. They would always be OHK. And you know what? Thats completely reasonable... I'm all for pc matching swarm point for point in dps as long as it only applied when you use it as AV ( BUT NOT ) if you use it on infantry
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16710	Posted - 2015.01.20 21:00:00 - [105] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Juno Tristan wrote: Quick question, what do you think vehicles should do on the battlefield? Not be pissed off because they only getting killed by swarms because swarms are the only viable light AV. 1.)Transportation. That's pretty much the main purpose of a vehicle right there. But I'm sure you are talking about only HAVs when you say "vehicles"... In that case, 1.) Infantry Suppression, when used in conjunction with infantry. Their presence should cause non-AV infantry to generally take cover. They currently do this pretty well. Note: when I say suppression, I don't mean killing. HAVs should be able to kill infantry, but their role should not be to farm them. 2.) AV. Large Turrets would remain the best AV options, even with the proposed PLC changes. So they would still have this. 3.) Installation destruction. Sorta like AV, but only HAVs have sufficient ammo reserves to make a viable role out of this. 4.) Destruction of map assets. Not Installations. I'd like to see stuff like, walls, gates, explosive containers and doors added to the game. Stuff that only an HAV could destroy quickly. Stuff that would take multiple hits from AV, but an HAV would be much more suited for. Went back and found the post so I could like it just for #4, would be cool to have stuff like that around that changes the flow of fights around sockets structures. Should make a suggestion from that in Features & Stuff forum It's already being talked about. I brought this up weeks ago in the HAV thread. - Ground vehicles need a dedicated form of Transport (MAV) - Large Turrets should primarily be large calibre anti tank/vehicle guns with splash damage and low rates of fire. - Destruction of battlefield assets is healthy for vehicles "He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3620	Posted - 2015.01.20 21:12:00 - [106] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Since apparently nobody wants to be 2-3 shot by Plasma Cannons, what do you vehicle guys think would be an acceptable amount of shots to take down vehicles? AV should be a deterrent, not the nuclear, rods from god or asteroid option. By definition if an AV weapon cannot not stop you, it cannot deter you either. A detterent does not deter if the detered is never in fear of reprisal. That is to say if AV does not kill you fast enough, that it's presence causes you to flee, it has not dettered you. Remember, every shot takes about 3.5-4 seconds, after the first, which takes about half a second. For which weapon are you talking about? At level 5, swarms take 1.05 seconds to lock on. Assault forge charges in about 2.5 seconds, I don't know what the plasma charges at at level 5, I've never had it to 5. Breach is about 5.3 seconds or so. Do you actually read these in-depth before you comment? Or do you just created a biased view on the closest approximation to what you believe they are saying? The weapon should not be balanced around Galmandos, because then the weapon would only be useful on Galmandos. It needs to be balanced for every suit, with the Galmando being the best at it. Then all infantry weapons should be balanced around their suit, because I laugh seeing a Gal assault using a rail rifle. Once again, where did you learn to read? Wille Wonka's Choclate Factory? Fizzer is saying no weapon should be balanced around a suit, otherwise that weapon is only balanced when equipped on that suit. Instead weapons should be balanced completly devoid of any other common factors. Still too long. Of course you think it's too long. Maybe we should just remove vehicles altogether, since you want them all to be so weak. Maybe we should give the Madrugar 2000 HP total, 1500 armor and 500 shield. Wait so 11 seconds is long enough? For a solo AVer, who has probably been waiting for you to waltz into their kill zone, or followed you round the map, avoided your detection whilst firing, at close enough range to hit you (giving away their posistion) fending off enemy infantry you in your PRO fatsuit and still killing your vehicle? If it takes 11 seconds from the first hit to kill a HAV that gives you at least 6 seconds to, a) make your intended impact b) root out and kill the little scoundrel c) send your infantry to hunt him down like a dog and still gives you a full 5 seconds with which to retreat, which if you have a nitro booster equipped is enough time to cover the entire width of most G1 maps. Evan at 3 shots your looking at a 4 second up time + 5 second escape window, and that's is assuming the PLC is actively hunting you or prepared for you BEFORE you arrive. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Vesta Opalus T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K General Tso's Alliance 312	Posted - 2015.01.20 21:14:00 - [107] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Juno Tristan wrote: Quick question, what do you think vehicles should do on the battlefield? Not be pissed off because they only getting killed by swarms because swarms are the only viable light AV. 1.)Transportation. That's pretty much the main purpose of a vehicle right there. But I'm sure you are talking about only HAVs when you say "vehicles"... In that case, 1.) Infantry Suppression, when used in conjunction with infantry. Their presence should cause non-AV infantry to generally take cover. They currently do this pretty well. Note: when I say suppression, I don't mean killing. HAVs should be able to kill infantry, but their role should not be to farm them. 2.) AV. Large Turrets would remain the best AV options, even with the proposed PLC changes. So they would still have this. 3.) Installation destruction. Sorta like AV, but only HAVs have sufficient ammo reserves to make a viable role out of this. *4.) Destruction of map assets. Not Installations. I'd like to see stuff like, walls, gates, explosive containers and doors added to the game. Stuff that only an HAV could destroy quickly. Stuff that would take multiple hits from AV, but an HAV would be much more suited for. Went back and found the post so I could like it just for #4, would be cool to have stuff like that around that changes the flow of fights around sockets structures. Should make a suggestion from that in Features & Stuff forum It's already being talked about. I brought this up weeks ago in the HAV thread. - Ground vehicles need a dedicated form of Transport (MAV) - Large Turrets should primarily be large calibre anti tank/vehicle guns with splash damage and low rates of fire. - Destruction of battlefield assets is healthy for vehicles Also the buff to the Plasma Cannon to roughly 3000 direct is certainly a poor suggestion. That is arguably too powerful for the technology involved, not limited to the Sentinel Suit. Might want to balanced that between damage increase and reload speed decrease. Otherwise you unbalance infantry gameplay by having and instagib weapon and create poor balance amongst the lighter vehicles. The plasma cannon is already an instagib weapon. I'd like to see MAV be a hybrid of transport with dedicated strong anti infantry turrets, that way MAV could kick the crap out of infantry but a HAV could beat the heck out of MAVs, something like that. But Im sure MAV is a long way off so I wont hold my breath.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16710	Posted - 2015.01.20 21:30:00 - [108] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: The plasma cannon is already an instagib weapon. I'd like to see MAV be a hybrid of transport with dedicated strong anti infantry turrets, that way MAV could kick the crap out of infantry but a HAV could beat the heck out of MAVs, something like that. But Im sure MAV is a long way off so I wont hold my breath. That was my thought. I hate the current "assault" weapon turrets dust has now. For AV weapon produced by an Empire there would be an equivalent Anti Tank Gun mounted on their armoured vehicles that is simply bigger, better,more efficient. Plasma Cannon -> Charged Electron Cannon with Void Rounds Forge Gun -> 150mm Carbide Railgun with Super Dense Iridum Discarding Sabots Scrambler Lance -> Dual Focused Beam/Pulse Laser with Scorch Focusing Crystals "Minmatar AV" -> 200mm Artillery Cannon with Quake HEAP Rounds *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 3162	Posted - 2015.01.20 21:43:00 - [109] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: I do find it hilarious that a lock on weapon that is really difficult to miss with massively outDPSes a weapon which takes a good deal of skill to aim and is very difficult to use at a quarter of the max range of said lock on weapon. This is only funny because of the stigma that surrounds the Swarm launcher because of the mechanics of the weapon and the perceived notion of play skill around it. It is more funny to me that people make a connection with DPS and a 1 shot clip high alpha damage weapon. Then proceed to talk about some sort of balance attempt when the core concept is funny.
Banjo Robertson Random Gunz RISE of LEGION 408	Posted - 2015.01.28 12:22:00 - [110] - Quote At the very least plasma cannon should have the same DPS than swarms, but should probably have more DPS because its harder to hit targets with it, keep splash damage the same but increase direct damage.

Echo 1991 Titans of Phoenix VP Gaming Alliance 706	Posted - 2015.01.28 12:29:00 - [111] - Quote i would increase damage by about 300-400 and decrease reload time a bit. its an alpha weapon, it shouldnt have the same DPS close to but not the same.
Mobius Wyvern Sky-FIRE 5744	Posted - 2015.01.28 12:43:00 - [112] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: GÇóA Swarm Luncher outputs 1040-1248 damage every 1.4 seconds without factoring any Damage multipliers, just base damage. That's a total of 742-891 DPS, depending on tier. Currently, Plasma Cannons do 1150-1501.5 damage every 4.1 seconds, without factoring in any Damage multipliers. That's only 280 DPS at the Standard tier, and still only 366.21 DPS at Prototype. A PRO Plasma Cannon deals less than half the DPS a Standard Swarm Launcher does. That's messed up. Even if we max out every reload and charge time skill, and increase the damage as much as we can with a Gallente Commando and Damage mods... We still only get 696.63 DPS. Still less than a Standard Swarm Launcher on any suit. This is rediculous. So let's increase Plasma Cannons to Swarm levels of DPS. At the base level. Without any modifiers accounted for. 1.) Buff Damage. By a ***** lot. An Allotek Plasma Cannon should outDPS a PRO Swarm launcher, without having to factor in any other multipliers. It just should. Period. At the very least, it should do the same DPS. With this in mind, an Allotek Plasma Cannon should deal 3653.1 direct damage. That would puts its DPS on par with a Wyrikiomi SL. So... Standard PLC: 3042.2 Damage Advanced PLC: 3347.65 Damage Allotek PLC: 3653.1 Damage This would mean that an Plasma Cannon would OHK or 2-shot ANY** vehicles. Any tank would just die if they get shot in the rear, unless they have any hardeners active. Otherwise they would take 2 hits. ADSes would always instapop. As they should. Hitting those things is still hard. Standard DSs would be able to take 2 hits if they fit a bit of tank. LAVs too. Hitting them is the hardest, unless they are parked. They would always be OHK. And you know what? Thats completely reasonable... Agreed. Those things take the most user skill to use and reward that skill the least. I support Keshava for Gallente Specialist HAV R.I.P. Kesha
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1958	Posted - 2015.01.28 12:48:00 - [113] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: GÇóA Swarm Luncher outputs 1040-1248 damage every 1.4 seconds without factoring any Damage multipliers, just base damage... it doesnt. HINT: fire interval, burst interval, lock on delay (not lock on time). you will at best fire a volley per 2,55s and that is not accounting any UI delays we currently have. that is 489 dps with proto swarms before reload and much less factoring in reloading time beside that, everyone that used swarms once knows that firing every 1.4 seconds is just made up BS. need more evidence to bust your little small fantasy bubble? well here it is: STD swarms fired as fast as possible => https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEmCY4Qh0jk skip to 1:35 01:36:00 Start first lock 01:37:73 First lock complete 01:38:60 First swarm finishes firing 01:40:93 Second lock completes 01:41:63 Second swarm finishes firing 01:44:53 Third lock completes 01:45:47 Third swarm finishes firing
Banjo Robertson Random Gunz RISE of LEGION 408	Posted - 2015.01.28 13:13:00 - [114] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: GÇóA Swarm Luncher outputs 1040-1248 damage every 1.4 seconds without factoring any Damage multipliers, just base damage... it doesnt. another post based on bias and misinformation, who would guess that Fizzer would do it again... HINT: fire interval, burst interval, lock on delay (not lock on time). you will at best fire a volley per 2,55s and that is not accounting any UI delays we currently have. that is 489 dps with proto swarms before reload and much less factoring in reloading time beside that, everyone that used swarms once knows that firing every 1.4 seconds is just made up BS. need more evidence to bust your little small fantasy bubble? well here it is: STD swarms fired as fast as possible => https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEmCY4Qh0jk skip to 1:35 01:36:00 Start first lock 01:37:73 First lock complete 01:38:60 First swarm finishes firing 01:40:93 Second lock completes 01:41:63 Second swarm finishes firing 01:44:53 Third lock completes 01:45:47 Third swarm finishes firing in short: busted, again... The delay from locking on is about as equivilant to aiming the plasma cannon before firing, depending on the skill of the player it could take less time to aim the plasma cannon, or more time to aim the plasma cannon if the target is starting/stopping or turning frequently. And in these scenarios a plasma cannon will miss outright, where the swarm launch will still be locked on and have a good chance to hit unless terrain is used to block them. Right now these make it easier to dodge a plasma cannon than dodge a swarm launcher, which I feel is reason enough to make PLC out DPS a swarm.
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1958	Posted - 2015.01.28 13:21:00 - [115] - Quote Banjo Robertson wrote: Jack McReady wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: GÇóA Swarm Luncher outputs 1040-1248 damage every 1.4 seconds without factoring any Damage multipliers, just base damage... it doesnt. another post based on bias and misinformation, who would guess that Fizzer would do it again... HINT: fire interval, burst interval, lock on delay (not lock on time). you will at best fire a volley per 2,55s and that is not accounting any UI delays we currently have. that is 489 dps with proto swarms before reload and much less factoring in reloading time beside that, everyone that used swarms once knows that firing every 1.4 seconds is just made up BS. need more evidence to bust your little small fantasy bubble? well here it is: STD swarms fired as fast as possible => https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEmCY4Qh0jk skip to 1:35 01:36:00 Start first lock 01:37:73 First lock complete 01:38:60 First swarm finishes firing 01:40:93 Second lock completes 01:41:63 Second swarm finishes firing 01:44:53 Third lock completes 01:45:47 Third swarm finishes firing in short: busted, again... The delay from locking on is about as equivilant to aiming the plasma cannon before firing, depending on the skill of the player it could take less time to aim the plasma cannon, or more time to aim the plasma cannon if the target is starting/stopping or turning frequently. And in these scenarios a plasma cannon will miss outright, where the swarm launch will still be locked on and have a good chance to hit unless terrain is used to block them. Right now these make it easier to dodge a plasma cannon than dodge a swarm launcher, which I feel is reason enough to make PLC out DPS a swarm. please stop. I never claimed that it is easier to hit with PLC. but I know and its a fact that you cant fire a volley every 1.4s. with lock delay, lock on time, fire interval and burst interval it is 2.55s with lvl5 in swarms and as shown in the video this number is damn accurate to its ingame performance unlike the 1.4s everyone is pulling out of his arse. that is 489 dps at proto, ~37x dps if you factor in reloading time. not near as bad as all those pilot whiners claim. factor in flight time and we are in 10 second territory.
Banjo Robertson Random Gunz RISE of LEGION 408	Posted - 2015.01.28 13:32:00 - [116] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: Banjo Robertson wrote: Jack McReady wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: GÇóA Swarm Luncher outputs 1040-1248 damage every 1.4 seconds without factoring any Damage multipliers, just base damage... it doesnt. another post based on bias and misinformation, who would guess that Fizzer would do it again... HINT: fire interval, burst interval, lock on delay (not lock on time). you will at best fire a volley per 2,55s and that is not accounting any UI delays we currently have. that is 489 dps with proto swarms before reload and much less factoring in reloading time beside that, everyone that used swarms once knows that firing every 1.4 seconds is just made up BS. need more evidence to bust your little small fantasy bubble? well here it is: STD swarms fired as fast as possible => https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEmCY4Qh0jk skip to 1:35 01:36:00 Start first lock 01:37:73 First lock complete 01:38:60 First swarm finishes firing 01:40:93 Second lock completes 01:41:63 Second swarm finishes firing 01:44:53 Third lock completes 01:45:47 Third swarm finishes firing in short: busted, again... The delay from locking on is about as equivilant to aiming the plasma cannon before firing, depending on the skill of the player it could take less time to aim the plasma cannon, or more time to aim the plasma cannon if the target is starting/stopping or turning frequently. And in these scenarios a plasma cannon will miss outright, where the swarm launch will still be locked on and have a good chance to hit unless terrain is used to block them. Right now these make it easier to dodge a plasma cannon than dodge a swarm launcher, which I feel is reason enough to make PLC out DPS a swarm. please stop. I never claimed that it is easier to hit with PLC. but I know and its a fact that you cant fire a volley every 1.4s. with lock delay, lock on time, fire interval and burst interval it is 2.55s with lvl5 in swarms and as shown in the video this number is damn accurate to its ingame performance unlike the 1.4s everyone is pulling out of his arse. that is 489 dps at proto, ~37x dps if you factor in reloading time. not near as bad as all those pilot whiners claim. factor in flight time and we are in 10 second territory. I'm not disagreeing with you on that, but you can also factor those things into plasma cannon, you wont be firing it right after it reloads because of aiming, and even if you did, the OP said DPS for proto plasma is somewhere under 400 dps, 300 something. It also has travel time on the projectile getting to the target. The swarm DPS isnt as high as the OP said, but its still higher than the plasma cannon DPS, and with the plasma cannon taking more skill to actually hit a target, one shot per clip, longer reload speed, it should have a higher DPS.
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1958	Posted - 2015.01.28 13:41:00 - [117] - Quote Banjo Robertson wrote: the OP said DPS for proto swarm is somewhere under 400 dps, 300 something. he didnt... Fizzer XCIV wrote: That's a total of 742-891 DPS, depending on tier.
Banjo Robertson Random Gunz RISE of LEGION 408	Posted - 2015.01.28 13:43:00 - [118] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: Banjo Robertson wrote: the OP said DPS for proto swarm is somewhere under 400 dps, 300 something. he didnt... Fizzer XCIV wrote: That's a total of 742-891 DPS, depending on tier. I mistyped, i meant to type plasma and i edited my post. Proto plasma is still less DPS than proto swarm with your calculated dps for proto swarm.
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1958	Posted - 2015.01.28 13:46:00 - [119] - Quote Banjo Robertson wrote: I mistyped, i meant to type plasma and i edited my post. Proto plasma is still less DPS than proto swarm with your calculated dps for proto swarm. it isnt higher by a big margin, the difference of the real dps of both weapons are rather small. beside that it is like comparing apples and oranges. PLC still has AI capabilities, swarm does not. I wouldnt mind a PLC buff, I will welcome any buff to squeeze more tears out of scrub pilots but imho what PLC really needs are just other variants, like breach and assault PLC.
Banjo Robertson Random Gunz RISE of LEGION 408	Posted - 2015.01.28 13:57:00 - [120] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: Banjo Robertson wrote: I mistyped, i meant to type plasma and i edited my post. Proto plasma is still less DPS than proto swarm with your calculated dps for proto swarm. it isnt higher by a big margin, the difference of the real dps of both weapons are rather small. beside that it is like comparing apples and oranges. PLC still has AI capabilities, swarm does not. I wouldnt mind a PLC buff, I will welcome any buff to squeeze more tears out of scrub pilots but imho what PLC really needs are just other variants, like breach and assault PLC. Yup, and I've started two different threads about PLC variants. 480ish DPS proto swarm vs 360 ish DPS proto plasma though. Swarm will hit every shot until terrain and distance make it impossible, plasma might hit the first two shots vs a tank, might hit the first shot vs a dropship. I find even vs most LAVs it takes two PLC shots to blow them up. I don't want the DPS to be as high as OP suggests, but I think a 10-15% increase in direct damage would be good enough, without boosting splash damage. Being able to 1hk infantry with PLC I think doesnt make up for the AV in which it lacks, its much harder to kill infantry with PLC than tanks, and splash damage usually means you have to switch weapons to finish them off.



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